17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[GroobySteven]

On February 26, our son Trayvon Martin was shot and killed as he walked to a family member's home from a convenience store where he had just bought some candy. He was only 17 years-old.

Trayvon's killer, George Zimmerman, admitted to police that he shot Trayvon in the chest. Zimmerman, the community's self appointed "neighborhood watch leader," called the police to report a suspicious person when he saw Travyon, a young black man, walking from the store. But Zimmerman still hasn't been charged for murdering my son.

Trayvon was our hero. At the age 9, Trayvon pulled his father from a burning kitchen, saving his life. He loved sports and horseback riding. At only 17 he had a bright future ahead of him with dreams of attending college and becoming an aviation mechanic. Now that’s all gone.

When Zimmerman reported Trayvon to the police, they told him not to confront him. But he did anyway. All we know about what happened next is that our 17 year-old son, who was completely unarmed, was shot and killed.

It's been nearly two weeks and the Sanford Police have refused to arrest George Zimmerman. In their public statements, they even go so far as to stand up for the killer - saying he's "a college grad" who took a class in criminal justice.

Please join us in calling on Norman Wolfinger, Florida's 18th District State's Attorney, to investigate my son's murder and prosecute George Zimmerman for the shooting and killing of Trayvon Martin.


Read the story above ... and click on link to sign petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

[noble1337]

damn it, now im sad and fucking angry.
all i can do is sign it, so i will

[TatianaSummer]

I cant believe the murderer even confess and he doesnt get arrested? incredible

[LibertyHarkness]

shocking ... amazing legal system there in the usa

[SFTB]

America is a wacky place. You'll notice in the recent senseless crime that happened here in Charlotte, the suspects race is never mentioned by the news media. Ever. Yet a family man is shot in the face, almost killed and his life is turned upside down. For those that are wondering, no petitions are being circulated that the young suspect be brought to justice. No famous religious leaders are beseeching the community that the suspect be turned in, so that the bad apple can be taken out of the community, no reward. Now, if that cab driver had killed the suspect in self defense....


http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Police-continue-searching-for-suspect-who-shot-cab-driver-in-the-face-142221795.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/03/10/3087332/suspect-in-cab-driver-shooting.html

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/top_stories/654860/charlotte-police-search-for-suspect-in-2011-cab-driver-shooting

[giovanni_hotel]

THey aren't the same situations at all, SFTB.
One was murdered in the commission of a crime, the suspect still at large.

In the former, the murderer killed an unarmed teenager, phoned the police to report what he had done then claimed it was self-defense. No charges were brought against him.

Both are tragic, but at least in the OP we know the victim and the killer.
I think it's shitty to imply since the cabby who was killed isn't benefiting from a public outcry of injustice, then why should it matter that a kid whose only crime was being BLACK was murdered in cold blood by a paranoid with a gun??

God Bless Amerikkka.

[SFTB]

THey aren't the same situations at all, SFTB.
One was murdered in the commission of a crime, the suspect still at large.

In the former, the murderer killed an unarmed teenager, phoned the police to report what he had done then claimed it was self-defense. No charges were brought against him.

Both are tragic, but at least in the OP we know the victim and the killer.
I think it's shitty to imply since the cabby who was killed isn't benefiting from a public outcry of injustice, then why should it matter that a kid whose only crime was being BLACK was murdered in cold blood by a paranoid with a gun??

God Bless Amerikkka.

You miss my point entirely. Try to imagine that you live in a city where there is someone shooting people in the head for no reason at all. In the surveilance footage on the links I gave we see the youth. But the news media refuses to describe him fully, and yes it is because of his race.

Those pictures should be blown up, and every black church leader in town should be asking his congregation to find him. He shot a man in the head, didnt call emergency services, didnt bother checking to see if he was even alive, but calmly walked to the train, and went home.

In the Florida case, a man called 911, ended up confronting the youth, and called police after the shooting. At the very least there is more to the story. Let the police do their job.

Your hung up on the fact that one was killed and one wasnt. I'm hung up on the fact that we have UK based adult website owners coming on a TS forum passing a petition about a shooting that happened in Sanford FL in which the police have been involved from the get go. And we have a remorseless son of a bitch shooting people in the head here in Charlotte and noone in Charlotte that could find him seems to care.

[StinkyPete1000]

You miss my point entirely. Try to imagine that you live in a city where there is someone shooting people in the head for no reason at all. In the surveilance footage on the links I gave we see the youth. But the news media refuses to describe him fully, and yes it is because of his race.

Those pictures should be blown up, and every black church leader in town should be asking his congregation to find him. He shot a man in the head, didnt call emergency services, didnt bother checking to see if he was even alive, but calmly walked to the train, and went home.

In the Florida case, a man called 911, ended up confronting the youth, and called police after the shooting. At the very least there is more to the story. Let the police do their job.

Your hung up on the fact that one was killed and one wasnt. I'm hung up on the fact that we have UK based adult website owners coming on a TS forum passing a petition about a shooting that happened in Sanford FL in which the police have been involved from the get go. And we have a remorseless son of a bitch shooting people in the head here in Charlotte and noone in Charlotte that could find him seems to care.
I'm struggling to see any logical connection between these two incidents. By your "logic" you should be equally upset with white church/community leaders for their failure to demonstrate their outrage that a young, unarmed, black teen was murdered for no reason. That's actually the point: race plays far too large of a role in our criminal justice system.

Black church/community leaders become outraged because this is a common occurrence. The difference isn't just that one person died. In one case the killer CONFESSED and yet remains unpunished. In the othe case, the shooter remains at large but there is certainly no indication that he will be let off Scott free without any repercussions. That's clearly NOT suggested by your article. In fact, once found, I can guarantee the shooter will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[StinkyPete1000]

I'm also struggling to think of white church leaders calling their entire congregation to find a criminal. In fact, your comment that black church leaders should be urging their congregation to find the shooter suggests that he is somehow connected to the congregation based on race alone. I don't look to the white community to punish a white criminal. I look to the POLICE. Unfortunately, when a young black kid is murdered by a relatively unassuming white guy, not even the police are helpful.

Granted, we don't know all the facts but I'm not sure there are any circumstances under which the American public would be willing to overlook the murder of an unarmed, white teenager, no matter how checkered his past may be.

[yourdaddy]

When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.

[tsdvdman]

When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.
He was visiting and could've ben the only clothes/sweater he had. He didn't commit a crime though..even if he had given the "fake" guard some lip. He didn't commit a crime and it doesnt justify shooting and killing him

[SFTB]

Sigh. Gonna make a final post on this. I've seen it said that the kid in Sanford was murdered because he was black. For all we know he came at the guy with the gun, or the guy panicked, or he misfired. There is only one witness, and we dont have his story. What we do know is he called the 911 both before and after the incident, and surrendered himself to authorities.

Everyone is making it a race thing. Maybe it's a "nervous old man who never should have had a gun in the first place" thing. We dont know.

Because it was a young black kid killed its a race crime, with an intrenational outcry. Petitions being filed from across the water etc.

So sick of the political correct hypocrisy. Noone is saying the cab driver was shot because he was white. He was shot because an asshole with a gun got in his cab. THATS my point.

Instead of all this race bullshit, do whatever it takes to get these assholes off the street. You guys are passing petitions from across the water, next we'll have Sharpton or Jackson screaming for the guys head. How about we see what the police end up with first? They have the shooter and they will give the results of their investigation. I'd sure like to see 1/10th of this effort applied to get this asshole in Charlotte.

[yourdaddy]

Sigh. Gonna make a final post on this. I've seen it said that the kid in Sanford was murdered because he was black. For all we know he came at the guy with the gun, or the guy panicked, or he misfired. There is only one witness, and we dont have his story. What we do know is he called the 911 both before and after the incident, and surrendered himself to authorities.

Everyone is making it a race thing. Maybe it's a "nervous old man who never should have had a gun in the first place" thing. We dont know.

Because it was a young black kid killed its a race crime, with an intrenational outcry. Petitions being filed from across the water etc.

So sick of the political correct hypocrisy. Noone is saying the cab driver was shot because he was white. He was shot because an asshole with a gun got in his cab. THATS my point.

Instead of all this race bullshit, do whatever it takes to get these assholes off the street. You guys are passing petitions from across the water, next we'll have Sharpton or Jackson screaming for the guys head. How about we see what the police end up with first? They have the shooter and they will give the results of their investigation. I'd sure like to see 1/10th of this effort applied to get this asshole in Charlotte.

+1 Good post !!!

[StinkyPete1000]

Sigh. Gonna make a final post on this. I've seen it said that the kid in Sanford was murdered because he was black. For all we know he came at the guy with the gun, or the guy panicked, or he misfired. There is only one witness, and we dont have his story. What we do know is he called the 911 both before and after the incident, and surrendered himself to authorities.

Everyone is making it a race thing. Maybe it's a "nervous old man who never should have had a gun in the first place" thing. We dont know.

Because it was a young black kid killed its a race crime, with an intrenational outcry. Petitions being filed from across the water etc.

So sick of the political correct hypocrisy. Noone is saying the cab driver was shot because he was white. He was shot because an asshole with a gun got in his cab. THATS my point.

Instead of all this race bullshit, do whatever it takes to get these assholes off the street. You guys are passing petitions from across the water, next we'll have Sharpton or Jackson screaming for the guys head. How about we see what the police end up with first? They have the shooter and they will give the results of their investigation. I'd sure like to see 1/10th of this effort applied to get this asshole in Charlotte.
Wow, I actually never said it was a race crime. In fact, the real place that race comes in to play is the punishment of the two shooters. I even said we don't know all the facts. Again, my point is that, no matter what the CHILD'S race, there is no excuse for killing him/her if he's unarmed and you ARE.

It's always easy to talk tough and say things about political correctness and hypocrisy when you are unaffected by the tragedy in question. Next time one of your loved ones is gunned down when they were unarmed I hope you're man enough to stick to your guns and say maybe the old guy had the jitters rather than pointing out that your family member was unarmed...now that would be hypocritical now wouldn't it.

I mean come one, the gun misfired? Look, murder is an intent based crime so if that was te case he could not be charged with murder because he lacked the requisite intent to kill. But that is precisely why we've created a charge called involuntary manslaughter. Negligent acts--such as leaving your house carrying a weapon and approaching an unarmed individual--that result in the death of another individual are still punishable. However this guy was not punished at all.

You can be like the rest of the sheep and spout one-liners about how you're sick of being politically correct but that's not helping at all. In fact, I'm sick of being politically correct too. So let's do away with the pretense. It's hypocritical to see something that doesn't seem quite right and then give another situation as a comparison implying that your story is worse. Did it make what happened to the kid any less wrong? No.

Come on dude, that's like me saying I was shot for being on this forum and you were stabbed just for wearing a pink shirt as if what happened to me is now less outrageous because what happened to you sucked. Both situations are terrible but your example in no way minimizes what appears be to a lack of fairness. Granted we don't know all the facts, but if you were simply being objective you'd see that what happened doesn't quite pass the smell test.

So talk about bein politically correct all you want. If it seems wrong, sometimes it is. What happened to both individuals was wrong but your story doesn't somehow make the original post less of a tragedy. As usual, tough talk is used by those looking from the outside in. I venture to guess your tone might change if someone you loved was on th other side of that bullet.

[DarylWashington]

Racist white people, EVERYWHERE!

[dazibik]

When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.
So that makes it okay?The shooter was a Neighborhood Watch member. Neighborhood Watch members are not trained security or police officers; they only keep an eye out for suspicious activity. When they see suspicious activity, they are only supposed to call the police.

[Faldur]

Racist white people, EVERYWHERE!

Ya! ...... wait a minute..

[russtafa]

i would say scared racist people every where no matter the race

[SFTB]

Racist white people, EVERYWHERE!

Racist of all colors everywhere. This thread could have been titled "Youth irrespoinsibly shot by overzealous Neighborhood Watch member", but it wasnt.

White guy beaten nearly to death by Blacks for dating a Black woman, no hate crime there - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8bEX-y1nr8)

[johnb85]

Racist white people, EVERYWHERE!

I truly hope you are being sarcastic there. I'm really tired of the concept that racism can only go one way. As a white male who grew up in a fairly poor area of the deep south, I have seen way more than my share of racism. To this day, black-on-white crime is downplayed by the media, while white-on-black crime makes headlines every time.

As for this case, no one alive but Mr. Zimmerman knows the true story of what happened, but I have seen several news reports that say when police arrived on the scene, he was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. That to me says that there was more than likely some sort of altercation before the shooting. I'm not saying this shooting was justified, just pointing out that if the races were reversed here that we would never have even heard about it in the first place.

[yourdaddy]

Racist white people, EVERYWHERE!

No racist black people anywhere, ever, never will be, can't happen, no way, don't exist.

[jimmibi]

Sigh. Gonna make a final post on this. I've seen it said that the kid in Sanford was murdered because he was black. For all we know he came at the guy with the gun, or the guy panicked, or he misfired. There is only one witness, and we dont have his story. What we do know is he called the 911 both before and after the incident, and surrendered himself to authorities.

Everyone is making it a race thing. Maybe it's a "nervous old man who never should have had a gun in the first place" thing. We dont know.

Because it was a young black kid killed its a race crime, with an intrenational outcry. Petitions being filed from across the water etc.

So sick of the political correct hypocrisy. Noone is saying the cab driver was shot because he was white. He was shot because an asshole with a gun got in his cab. THATS my point.

Instead of all this race bullshit, do whatever it takes to get these assholes off the street. You guys are passing petitions from across the water, next we'll have Sharpton or Jackson screaming for the guys head. How about we see what the police end up with first? They have the shooter and they will give the results of their investigation. I'd sure like to see 1/10th of this effort applied to get this asshole in Charlotte.

The reason this IS a race thing, is that if this situation was reversed and it was a 17 year old white boy who was shot, the black guy would be in jail already.

[SFTB]

The reason this IS a race thing, is that if this situation was reversed and it was a 17 year old white boy who was shot, the black guy would be in jail already.

Well, they are investigating a neighborhood watch member, who called 911, and was involved in a shooting. There were also 911 calls to OPD about the 2 being involved in a struggle from other neighbors. When officers arrived, he had a bloody nose the youth was dead.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/mh-dade-teen-killed-central-florida-20120312,0,2078834.story

There is a witness who at first made a sworn statement confirming the neighborhood watch members story, but has since changed her story. So maybe, just maybe none of us know what happened and should let OPD and Sanford police do their job?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/os-trayvon-martin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

[Ryz]

Is anyone actually surprised by this? White America...

[SFTB]

Is anyone actually surprised by this? White America...

Ryz, I would have to say that on Feb 26, 2012, America the melting pot was equally represented in Orlando area, with no race in particular taking the lead in crime.

http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/fl-occ/2012-02-26/

[tsadriana]

new fashion in Usa kill as u wont go in the jail ,shocking ......horoble...no words

[StinkyPete1000]

I truly hope you are being sarcastic there. I'm really tired of the concept that racism can only go one way. As a white male who grew up in a fairly poor area of the deep south, I have seen way more than my share of racism. To this day, black-on-white crime is downplayed by the media, while white-on-black crime makes headlines every time.

As for this case, no one alive but Mr. Zimmerman knows the true story of what happened, but I have seen several news reports that say when police arrived on the scene, he was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. That to me says that there was more than likely some sort of altercation before the shooting. I'm not saying this shooting was justified, just pointing out that if the races were reversed here that we would never have even heard about it in the first place.
Right....if a black man shot and killed an unarmed white kid we wouldn't have heard anything about that. Seriously. Plus, you assume that just because we are having this discussion here that this particular murder made headlines. Did you know about it before the incident happened. Because according to you it must be getting publicity sinc we would have never heard a peep about it if a white kid was killed. Just like the news stations are so quick to report on missing black kids but never so much as mention missing white children. Boy oh boy, I never really knew stuff happened to white people until my white friends started giving me first-hand accounts, you know, because that stuff never makes the news.

[StinkyPete1000]

Racist of all colors everywhere. This thread could have been titled "Youth irrespoinsibly shot by overzealous Neighborhood Watch member", but it wasnt.

White guy beaten nearly to death by Blacks for dating a Black woman, no hate crime there - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8bEX-y1nr8)
And your response could have been just "there are racists of all colors but that doesn't make it right." instead you stopped prematurely and opted to post a video about black people doing something equally stupid. What was your point again? That's right, there wasn't one.

Your response is like that of a child. You catch them doing something bad and they quickly point out that someone else did the same thing. News flash, both kids are wrong. The fact that racism, funny enough, is actually color blind doesn't speak to the issue. Unless of course your only form of argument is "you think what I did is bad? Wait until you see what HE did!"

[giovanni_hotel]

Who as a part of a Neighborhood Watch goes around with a SIDEARM?? A neighborhood watch is just that, you call in shit that looks suspicious. Like if you see someone who doesn't look like you neighbor trying to enter his house through the basement window.
You don't go approach that person with a 9mm drawn and have a 'conversation'.

Mr. Zimmerman is at fault for at least exercising idiotic judgment and should have been charged with some form of manslaughter, voluntary or involuntary.

I'll tell you this, that White guy shot that Black teenager for no other reason than he was SCARED of his skin color.

There have been no reports that Mr. Zimmerman was assaulted by this kid, and why didn't he just draw his firearm overhead and fire off a couple rounds??? IMO that kid would have done what a million other teenagers would have; he would have turned his ass around, if he wasn't too afraid to move, and walked his ass back in the opposite direction.

The officers told Mr. Zimmerman NOT TO APPROACH the 'suspicious' individual, yet for some reason he felt obligated to do so.

IMO this is the case of a wannabe cop/neighborhood vigilante he should be allowed to cool down in a jail cell for about 10 years for being stupid.

[hippifried]

I find it curious & a bit disturbing that whenever any kind of story resembling this one happens, the discussion devolves into a bunch of bullshit over what race has the higher percentage of racist assholes. Who gives a flyin' fuck? It's a total waste of time & effort for everybody, whether you're adding to the ad hominem sidetrack, or having to sift through all the irrelevant stupid (3 pages in 9 hours for this one so far) just to find out what happened. Just sayin'...

As for the case:
It would appear there was a fight, although even that seems to be in dispute. Unless it's a preplanned sporting event or some such, all violence starts with an assault. Now the question is who was the assailant. All the law agencies seem to be staying tight lipped, except for the repudiation of the "eye witness" who's talking to the media. There's a time lag going on, but this case has been taken over by the State. I find that real interesting, & a reason to keep on top of this.

Regardless of what happens at any official level, or who says what, there's one fact that sticks out. Zimmerman's a fucking moron & probably shouldn't be armed.

[Merkurie]

A self appointed watchman with a loaded gun walking around a suburban neighborhood is suspicious right there.

So if you are walking down this street and Mr. Zimmerman demands to know your whereabouts, god help you if you tell him to Fuck Off.

[celticgrafix]

lets pretend we flipped the colors, shit wouldnt of made the news

[noble1337]

yet, its always annoying when people say shit like "well thats america for you"
as if all countries aren't fucked up. even more so in different ways. pretty pathetic

[celticgrafix]

agreed noble, and to rephrase my statement. it would make the news, it just wouldnt be a racism situation

[dazibik]

agreed noble, and to rephrase my statement. it would make the news, it just wouldnt be a racism situation

That's probably because it wouldn't be a racism statement.It seems like most of the black on white crimes I hear of are for material gain, while most of the white on black crime is based on racial hatred. The media would feast on every race related story they could, because it's good for their business, whether the crime was racially motivated or not. Race is a big issue in America. If they publish a crime story without a picture of the victim or criminal, the big issue is what "race" are they. The OJ trial wouldn't have gotten as much publicity, if his wife were black. In fact, if his wife were black, he'd probably be a free man today. He'd probably would have spoken at Leslie Neilsen's funeral. Maybe some feminist groups may despise him, but he'd still be working in Hollywood. See the difference with Robert Blake? Had his wife been black, you would hear from Sharpton.

[loren]

In some states, if the defence (shooter) can prove that there was a credible threat at the time of the shooting, then the shooting is ruled as justified.

[killkenny]

ahh well shows america has a real immigrant problem as they all have guns. Oh n the immigrants r from Europe :p

[TS CANDY NY]

i signed because i have young cousins and not only that could of been anyone one of you guys family member

[russtafa]

wish we had fire arms in Australia there would be a lot less criminals around

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't care what the racial makeup was, it could have been a self-appointed fake cop Black man walking the streets of his 'hood who blows away a Korean teenager claiming self-defense and that the kid looked shady.

It would still be a major news story.

The difference is, only a White guy in America isn't charged and arrested for murder in less than an hour.

Leaving a convenience store and walking down the sidewalk in a suburb usually doesn't earn you the death penalty on sight from some asshole with a gun.

Everything about this assault was premeditated. Mr. Zimmerman called the police that he observed the victim looking suspicious, followed and approached him when he was expressly told not to do so by police, and executed him with a point blank shot in the chest because he felt 'threatened'.

No, only men of a certain complexion in this country could even dream of getting off totally spotless without a minute of jail time for murdering a kid because he felt like it.

EDIT: Zimmerman according to his father is of hispanic descent, and he suggests the victim is the one who followed and confronted Mr. Zimmerman.

Mr. Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for assaulting and arresting a police officer, the charges were later dropped. He's received multiple complaints from residents in his housing development for his over-aggressive tactics and even followed one resident to their home to confront them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

Having a gun carry permit does not allow you to play Dirty Harry IRL.
BTW the Retreat at Twin Lakes development didn't even have a neighborhood watch program. This asshole just decided to appoint HIMSELF the neighborhood watch captain.

If not prison, this nutcase needs to be kept in a secure psychiatric facility for evaluation and treatment. The definition of a delusional homicidal narcissist.

[SunshyneMonroe]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..

[runningdownthatdream]

I don't care what the racial makeup was, it could have been a self-appointed fake cop Black man walking the streets of his 'hood who blows away a Korean teenager claiming self-defense and that the kid looked shady.

It would still be a major news story.

The difference is, only a White guy in America isn't charged and arrested for murder in less than an hour.

Leaving a convenience store and walking down the sidewalk in a suburb usually doesn't earn you the death penalty on sight from some asshole with a gun.

Everything about this assault was premeditated. Mr. Zimmerman called the police that he observed the victim looking suspicious, followed and approached him when he was expressly told not to do so by police, and executed him with a point blank shot in the chest because he felt 'threatened'.

No, only men of a certain complexion in this country could even dream of getting off totally spotless without a minute of jail time for murdering a kid because he felt like it.

EDIT: Zimmerman according to his father is of hispanic descent, and he suggests the victim is the one who followed and confronted Mr. Zimmerman.

Mr. Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for assaulting and arresting a police officer, the charges were later dropped. He's received multiple complaints from residents in his housing development for his over-aggressive tactics and even followed one resident to their home to confront them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

Having a gun carry permit does not allow you to play Dirty Harry IRL.
BTW the Retreat at Twin Lakes development didn't even have a neighborhood watch program. This asshole just decided to appoint HIMSELF the neighborhood watch captain.

If not prison, this nutcase needs to be kept in a secure psychiatric facility for evaluation and treatment. The definition of a delusional homicidal narcissist.

Great post although I think a black man trying to intelligently explain anything related to race to white Americans is a lost cause. Slavery may have officially ended in America a little more than 150 years ago but the master/slave dynamic of white and black still exists. Both sides are guilty of perpetrating that dynamic - too many black people still act like slaves and too many white still people feel they are entitled to dictate to non-whites. It doesn't fucking matter what that clown's justification is: he shot an unarmed teenager at point-blank range in an open environment during daylight. He hasn't been arrested simply because he's white - end of story. No matter what the fucking apologists say.

[runningdownthatdream]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..

Of course that's your conclusion....you're a hooker so you automatically think the worse of everyone and in particular of black men. Haven't you stated time and again in your pre-celebrity days - before you found it prudent to tone done your bullshit so that you can attract prospects to your website - what you actually think about black men? Who robs more: black men or white transsexual prostitutes? See how easily your 'logic' can be turned against you?

[loren]

\Having a gun carry permit does not allow you to play Dirty Harry IRL.I agree, concealed carry is a very big responsibility. Most of the people who carry, do not use their permit as a blanket warrent to dispense justice as they see fit.

[GroobySteven]

Fuck me. It's not just the orange jumpsuit but I know which looks more like the crim.

http://www.blackyouthproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/george-zimmerman-289x400.jpg

"Still Zimmerman claims he shot the teenager in self-defense and the Sanford Police Department contends that it does not have enough probable cause to prove otherwise."

Surely, the police should contend that they don't have enough probably cause to prove that it was self-defence? Gun vs skittles?

[GroobySteven]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..

Why do you think he was going to rob someone?

[Nicole Dupre]

Zimmerman was well-documented as a menace. Read the articles.

And he murdered this poor baby in cold blood imo. All you need to do is look at the photos on Huff Post. They speak volumes about Trayvon Martin.

[Nicole Dupre]

Funny how a thread based on a story like this gets all the idiots and racists to come crawling out of the woodwork.

[SFTB]

I can find literally hundreds of articles concerning the police shooting of Mark Dugan last year in Tottenham, ( with views listing him as anything from an angel to a gang banger) the one thing I cant find is a petition circulated by the OP demanding justice for him and trial for his killers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

[GroobySteven]

I can find literally hundreds of articles concerning the police shooting of Mark Dugan last year in Tottenham, ( with views listing him as anything from an angel to a gang banger) the one thing I cant find is a petition circulated by the OP demanding justice for him and trial for his killers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

It's funny (pathetically so) how you're more concerned that an British guy, who has lived in the USA for over 35% of his life and is on the mailing list for change.org, has posted something that he thinks is a problem and people should sign the petition, rather than the actual situation itself?
The Mark Dugan case is irrelevant to this one.

[SFTB]

It's funny (pathetically so) how you're more concerned that an British guy, who has lived in the USA for over 35% of his life and is on the mailing list for change.org, has posted something that he thinks is a problem and people should sign the petition, rather than the actual situation itself?
The Mark Dugan case is irrelevant to this one.

It's pathetic that you think a young black male shot dead by British police while riding in a cab over a year ago, with no one brought to trial and a neverending investigation is irrelevant.

It sounds at the very least like a similar situation, and much more like a government institution covering up a crime. But you see, I'm just curious if you had circulated any petitions or had any opinions on the incident, I guess we have your opinion on it now.

What I'm not going to do is assume I know anything about what goes on across the pond, or how the police conduct an investigation over there. It has been almost a year right? And just a month in the Sanford, FL case.

[GroobySteven]

It's pathetic that you think a young black male shot dead by British police while riding in a cab over a year ago, with no one brought to trial and a neverending investigation is irrelevant.

It sounds at the very least like a similar situation, and much more like a government institution covering up a crime. But you see, I'm just curious if you had circulated any petitions or had any opinions on the incident, I guess we have your opinion on it now.

What I'm not going to do is assume I know anything about what goes on across the pond, or how the police conduct an investigation over there. It has been almost a year right? And just a month in the Sanford, FL case.

It's just not RELEVANT to this issue.
As I've stated I've lived longer in the USA than many Americans but even if I hadn't, this case is very disturbing (much more than the Mark Dugan one). I don't need to go playing "tit for tat" on murders of "young black men" just because I'm "across the pond".
News is international.

I fail to see how a young man walking back to his families house, carrying no weapons and is killed by a civilian to:

"Officers of the Metropolitan Police stopped a cab which was carrying Duggan as a passenger at about 18:15 BST on 4 August 2011 to attempt to arrest him.In the course of the ensuing incident, the police fired twice, killing Duggan with a single gunshot to the chest.
The IPCC had commissioned tests on the pistol by the Forensic Science Service and had received advice that it was an illegal firearm.
The gun was wrapped in a sock, a practice allegedly used to avoid leaving evidence if it was used."

If you've a problem with the Mark Dugan case then open it in a new thread. Don't be a douche thinking there is anything more underlying here, because I'm not an American, to a very disturbing incident that I added my name a poll and would like others to.

[StinkyPete1000]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..
What?! Why? What is that statement based on? Unbelievable. You just admit that you need more info then assume he was going to rob someone. I hope that wa sarcasm, because if it wasn't, it's just sad.

[DarylWashington]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..

That's the LAST thing I thought YOU'D say lol.

[dabaldone]

It kills me when "White" men, who have NEVER experienced racism have an opinion about a situation that was clearly racially motivated. Until you're harrased by copsn asking you where you're going in a perdominately white neighborhood when YOU LIVE THERE - until you're a white collar professional, in charge of a million dollar business; I could care less what you think. This kid was killed because he was black.

[Merkurie]

Lets just say that it would be a lot harder for a white kid to be shot under those circumstances.

[Falrune]

On this forum, has anyone yet pointed out that Zimmerman is Latino?

[Nicole Dupre]

Zimmerman was a self appointed neighborhood watch captain. Sounds to me like he was just dying to play vigilante/enforcer before this even happened. When he called the police before he shot Trayvon Martin, he was recorded as saying that "these assholes always get away".

He also had a bad reputation in the very community he elected himself to "protect". And he's had his own problems with the law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

[SFTB]

I could care less what you think. This kid was killed because he was black.

And this kid was attacked because he was white, ( though for some reason, it wasnt classified a hate crime)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011994589_beating31m.html

and they were attacked because they were white; ( no hate crime classification)

http://www.ohio.com/news/akron-police-investigate-teen-mob-attack-on-family-1.142665

And much as you are convinced the Sanford teen was shot because of the color of his skin, even though no racial motive, no racial slurs, etc I also feel that the incident in Knoxville was racially motivated. Everyone entitled to an opinion.

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newso m)

Violent piece of shit assholes everywhere, and I dont think any race has a monoply on it.

[dazibik]

When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.

It happened on a rainy night.

[dazibik]

Like Sunshyne Monroe concluded, he had to be on his way to rob someone. This is the belief system about young blacks, because they are synonymous with crime. It's sad because a person who's committed no crime will suffer for it.Maybe this Zimmerman guy killed out of fear more than hate.Was the desegregation of schools and neighborhoods done in vain?

[StinkyPete1000]

On this forum, has anyone yet pointed out that Zimmerman is Latino?
Has anyone pointed out to you that Latino is not a race?

[StinkyPete1000]

And this kid was attacked because he was white, ( though for some reason, it wasnt classified a hate crime)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011994589_beating31m.html

and they were attacked because they were white; ( no hate crime classification)

http://www.ohio.com/news/akron-police-investigate-teen-mob-attack-on-family-1.142665

And much as you are convinced the Sanford teen was shot because of the color of his skin, even though no racial motive, no racial slurs, etc I also feel that the incident in Knoxville was racially motivated. Everyone entitled to an opinion.

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newso m)

Violent piece of shit assholes everywhere, and I dont think any race has a monoply on it.
Question: Did that fact that your unrelated cases weren't classified as hate crimes have anything to do with the overall investigation? Did the perpetrators come forward and say they did it? And then were they not arrested?

If you're going to give examples, try to give some thought to whether or not they actually apply to the discussion. Literally, every single example you've given is easily distinguishable from the facts in this particular case.

You sound like you're mad because those cases weren't classified as hate crimes. Get your priorities straight. Were the criminals ultimately arrested? If so then who cares about the classification. Assuming this is/was classified a hate crime it sure didn't keep the shooter behind bars. It didn't even get him arrested.

If I ever got shot, I hope they don't say it's a hate crime. Sounds to me like I might get some justice. But anyway, let me go grab my gun. It's my shift for my community watch program...

[yourdaddy]

Zimmerman is an Hispanic Jew. Looks like he's got some Moor in him too since the hair is bordering on North African. Obama is probably more "white" than this guy.

[GroobySteven]

Zimmerman is an Hispanic Jew. Looks like he's got some Moor in him too since the hair is bordering on North African. Obama is probably more "white" than this guy.

Moor?

[yourdaddy]

Moor?

A North African Berber muslim is a Moor. They took over Southern Spain about the same time the Jews like Zimmereman's ancestors were getting kicked out. Actually, the United Nations needs to get pulled into this investigation by Al Sharpton.

[GroobySteven]

The term Moors has referred to several historic and modern populations, used principally in reference to the

Yeah anyone could have made that search ... I know what a Moor is - I just want to know how you came to that conclusion? Especially when the same articles stated:
"The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."
and
"Some people to whom it is applied consider the term pejorative and racist."

[BBaggins06]

Moor?

Moops

[yourdaddy]

Yeah anyone could have made that search ... I know what a Moor is - I just want to know how you came to that conclusion? Especially when the same articles stated:
"The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."
and
"Some people to whom it is applied consider the term pejorative and racist."


The guy on your avatar with the shit-eating grin looks kinda like a Moor too.

[russtafa]

moor chicks please,i love them tgirls

[GroobySteven]

The guy on your avatar with the shit-eating grin looks kinda like a Moor too.

Really? How?

[yourdaddy]

He looks like an Iraqi or Syrian wanted poster. Shifty, and beady-eyed. The left side of his face looks like an I.E.D. may have gone off near him.

Who is that Moorish looking character?

[doctor screw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wj9YJw8whI&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=10&feature=plcp

[yourdaddy]

Cute picture of him when he was 12. What's he look like as a 17 year old with a hoodie?

[doctor screw]

Cute picture of him when he was 12. What's he look like as a 17 year old with a hoodie?

If you actually watched the video you would know....arrtard,lol

He still looks like a tiny teenager,and you would have to be a real bitch,to see him as a threat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01oZP4gCtog&feature=watch_response

[timxxx]

Normal people see a small 17yr old kid racist fucks like yourdaddy & SFTB see

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Jules_scary_9036.jpg

[Nicole Dupre]

What are the odds that there are two racist yourdaddys from FL on HungAngels? ;-) "Yourdaddy" was banned about 6 years ago for making racist comments towards Allanah, if I remember correctly. It happened maybe about 6-8 after Solitary Brother was banned as "Geekmeat", back in the Chefmike days.

[yourdaddy]

Normal people see a small 17yr old kid racist fucks like yourdaddy & SFTB see

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Jules_scary_9036.jpg

Here's a racist for you:
That would be the same MSNBC host Reverend Al Sharpton — hired by MSNBC president Phil Griffin — caught on this video clip from Evocateur, a documentary film of the late television host Morton Downey, Jr. Sharpton, seen here on the set of Downey’s television show, is heatedly shouting to an audience member:

You ain’t nothing, you a punk faggot. Now come on, do something!
That video, provided on YouTube courtesy of Tucker Carlson’s The Daily Caller, is in fact an excerpt of a trailer for the film on Downey produced by Ironbound Films. The entire trailer can be found here at the Ironbound site.
The clip of the MSNBC host hired by Mr. Griffin has now surfaced along with a series of Sharpton audio tapes. Beginning with this reference by Sharpton to the black then-mayor of New York, David Dinkins.

David Dinkins.… You wanna be the only n….on television, the only n….in the newspaper, the only n…to talk.…Don’t cover them, don’t talk to them, cause you got the only n…problem. Cause you know if a black man stood up next to ya they would see you for the whore that you really are.
Other tapes are littered with derogatory references to “Greek homos,” “Chinamen,” “Koreans sell us watermelons,” and so on.

[yourdaddy]

Different dude. He was white.

[south ov da border]

I live near there and heard that that dude is a piece of shit, agressive against people and thinks he's some cop or something. BUT it's good ol boy territory here and we'll see how it goes down.

The guy has vacated the area BTW

[yourdaddy]

Vacated what area? I don't live here 23 hours a day pal.

It's time to go celebrate St Paddy's day. Like obama, I have some "Mick" in me. It's been real.

[SFTB]

Normal people see a small 17yr old kid racist fucks like yourdaddy & SFTB see

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Jules_scary_9036.jpg

please quote my racist remarks?

[StinkyPete1000]

Sorry to break this to you yourdaddy but hispanic, jew, and moor have nothing to do with his race. Good god I'll be glad when people stop confusing religion, nationality and ethnicity with race.

[StinkyPete1000]

Here's a racist for you:
That would be the same MSNBC host Reverend Al Sharpton — hired by MSNBC president Phil Griffin — caught on this video clip from Evocateur, a documentary film of the late television host Morton Downey, Jr. Sharpton, seen here on the set of Downey’s television show, is heatedly shouting to an audience member:

You ain’t nothing, you a punk faggot. Now come on, do something!
That video, provided on YouTube courtesy of Tucker Carlson’s The Daily Caller, is in fact an excerpt of a trailer for the film on Downey produced by Ironbound Films. The entire trailer can be found here at the Ironbound site.
The clip of the MSNBC host hired by Mr. Griffin has now surfaced along with a series of Sharpton audio tapes. Beginning with this reference by Sharpton to the black then-mayor of New York, David Dinkins.

David Dinkins.… You wanna be the only n….on television, the only n….in the newspaper, the only n…to talk.…Don’t cover them, don’t talk to them, cause you got the only n…problem. Cause you know if a black man stood up next to ya they would see you for the whore that you really are.
Other tapes are littered with derogatory references to “Greek homos,” “Chinamen,” “Koreans sell us watermelons,” and so on.
Wow, yourdaddy, you've certainly proven everyone wrong about you by posting something about SOMEONE ELSE. Someone else's racist comments don't make the stuff you've said any less ridiculous. Sounds like you've got a case of internet-anonimity-induced courage. It's always easy to say ridiculous things from the comforts of your home and behind your puter. No consequences...

[GroobySteven]

What are the odds that there are two racist yourdaddys from FL on HungAngels? ;-) "Yourdaddy" was banned about 6 years ago for making racist comments towards Allanah, if I remember correctly. It happened maybe about 6-8 after Solitary Brother was banned as "Geekmeat", back in the Chefmike days.

I didn't think there was any argument that it was the same guy?

[Nicole Dupre]

I didn't think there was any argument that it was the same guy?
I didn't realize that he or anyone else had acknowledged or confirmed it. It was just my own personal observation.

[SFTB]

Finally the OPD released the 911 calls involved.

In Zimmerman's case, he never mentions race until the 911 operator specifically asks him, "Is he white, black, hispanic?"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videogallery/68871920/News/George-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

In the neighbor calls you hear Trayvon screaming for help, and then the shots.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316,0,573686.story?track=rss

I listen to the first tape and I hear a dumbass with a gun, should have called it in if he felt there was something suspicious and left it at that. I listen to the second tape and I hear the tragic results of that dumbass having a gun. Those of you convinced he's a racist vigilante will never be convinced otherwise, I think he's an idiot with a gun who ended one life and ruined quite a few lives.

And timxxx, I'm still waiting to see where you quote my "racist" remarks?

[StinkyPete1000]

Finally the OPD released the 911 calls involved.

In Zimmerman's case, he never mentions race until the 911 operator specifically asks him, "Is he white, black, hispanic?"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videogallery/68871920/News/George-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

In the neighbor calls you hear Trayvon screaming for help, and then the shots.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316,0,573686.story?track=rss

I listen to the first tape and I hear a dumbass with a gun, should have called it in if he felt there was something suspicious and left it at that. I listen to the second tape and I hear the tragic results of that dumbass having a gun. Those of you convinced he's a racist vigilante will never be convinced otherwise, I think he's an idiot with a gun who ended one life and ruined quite a few lives.

And timxxx, I'm still waiting to see where you quote my "racist" remarks?
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. SFTB has proven the man was not racist. We can all go home now. Apparently, all you have to do is listen to the 911 call and once you notice that he never describes the boy's race you'll realize that he just cannot be racist. I mean, based on SFTB's detailed study, all individuals who've committed a crime based on someone's race and then called the police to admit it ALWAYS mention the race of the victim immediately. It's science. Thanks for clearing this up.

I'm not going to say the man is racist but once again, you post something that is completely irrelevant to the point you're trying to make (if there is one). Congrats, he doesn't mention race. So now you conclude he wasn't racist? I'm not going to argue that he WAS racist because you don't need to be a racist to hurt someone because of a stereotype, you just need to be an idiot. But if you're going to flat out say he's not racist try to pick some better evidence to prove your point, scientist.

[StinkyPete1000]

For example, anytime SFTB commits a hate crime he makes sure to note the victims race for two reasons: (1) so you know he's racist, and (2) for his journal.

[SFTB]

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. SFTB has proven the man was not racist.

Hey stinkypeter, where did I say I prove he's not a racist? Instead of being a reactionary shithead, and making my words what they arent, read it just like I wrote it.

I believe he's and asshole with a gun. Just like I believe your an asshole with a keyboard. I havent proved your an asshole with a keyboard, but I do believe it so.

[StinkyPete1000]

Hey stinkypeter, where did I say I prove he's not a racist? Instead of being a reactionary shithead, and making my words what they arent, read it just like I wrote it.

I believe he's and asshole with a gun. Just like I believe your an asshole with a keyboard. I havent proved your an asshole with a keyboard, but I do believe it so.
I see you've exhausted your studies and have gone to name calling. Typical. Here's what you said: "Those of you convinced he's a racist vigilante will never be convinced otherwise, I think he's an idiot with a gun who ended one life and ruined quite a few lives."

I'm sorry, does that not imply that you think he was not racist. Wasn't the WHOLE point of your post to imply that this was not racially charged. Don't get mad at me because poking holes in the garbage that come out of your mouth is easy.

And also, don't get tough because you're behind your computer. Eithe prove me wrong or don't say anything at all.

[StinkyPete1000]

If your point wasn't to downplay the racial aspect of this whole thing why post anything at all? You said those who think he's racist will never be convinced otherwise. Haven't you been trying to convince them otherwise THIS ENTIRE TIME.

Call me an asshole all you want (from the comforts of your computer of course) but if you don't want to look foolish don't say foolish things. You're still a pup when it comes to making an argument. Perhaps you can practice on a fried before you make anymore statements that way there's not need for you to get mad when you get called on what you're saying.

[SFTB]

I see you've exhausted your studies and have gone to name calling. Typical. Here's what you said: "Those of you convinced he's a racist vigilante will never be convinced otherwise, I think he's an idiot with a gun who ended one life and ruined quite a few lives."

I'm sorry, does that not imply that you think he was not racist.

So now you've changed it from , "I've proven he's not a racist" to I'm implying he's not a racist. You did include my quote. When you whittle your reactinary bullshit down enough to get to my exact words, that I think he's an idiot with a gun, you'll finally be speaking the truth about what I wrote.

You might want to look at yourself. You dont attack the other posters in this thread for saying things like, "He was shot because he's black" or titling the thread "black kid shot while walking through white suburbia" and then failing to mention "By a Hispanic" Are you so hellbent on race that you cant accept this thread was tainted from the beginning? Did white suburbia influence Hispanic vigilantes to crusade against black youths? Or did an idiot cop wannabe kill someone?

[StinkyPete1000]

And at the very least, your point was that this incident was not racially charged (which is different than saying he's racist of course). But the support for that argument was the 911 call. My point was that the fact that he doesn't mention the boy's race means nothing. Find better support. Beforehand, you were posting articles about completely unrelated stories. My point then was also that it didn't support your argument. I get your point, but come on, I hope you understand that what you're saying isn't helping your point at all. It's literally nonsensical.

I can see that you've got this typing thing down to a science (get it) I'm just trying to get you to use your noodle while you type.

[StinkyPete1000]

So now you've changed it from , "I've proven he's not a racist" to I'm implying he's not a racist. You did include my quote. When you whittle your reactinary bullshit down enough to get to my exact words, that I think he's an idiot with a gun, you'll finally be speaking the truth about what I wrote.

You might want to look at yourself. You dont attack the other posters in this thread for saying things like, "He was shot because he's black" or titling the thread "black kid shot while walking through white suburbia" and then failing to mention "By a Hispanic" Are you so hellbent on race that you cant accept this thread was tainted from the beginning? Did white suburbia influence Hispanic vigilantes to crusade against black youths? Or did an idiot cop wannabe kill someone?
Oh boy. First, a quick lesson: Hispanic is not a race (I feel like a broken record) so including that in the title means nothing. Second, yes I've been so focused on race that I've posted other news stories about white people being shot to prove a point, posted a 911 call waiting to hear of the caller would mention race, and spent my time tryin to convince people this was not about race. Yup. I'm sure focused on race.

My beef from the very beginning has been less with the shooter and more with how this whole thing was handled. It really doesn't matter WHY he was shot (which is why I see no reason to answer those that say they know why he was shot). He could have been shot for wearing a hung angels t-shirt. The true tragedy is how law enforcement appear to have handled the situation. In my opinion that's when race probably reared it's ugly head.

There have been tons of articles written about how race plays a crucial role in criminal investigations and the subsequent prosecution. So setting aside the reasons for the actual shooting, the second part (the investigation, arrests, etc) just demonstrate how race still plays a role in many aspects of our lives including the criminal justice system.

In fact, there is a running joke in certain prosecutors offices (which I will not mention) that you're a crappy defense lawyer if you can't work out a good deal for a white client. http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3499&context=flr&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3 Drace%2Band%2Bprosecution%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari#search=%22race%20pro secution%22

[SFTB]

And at the very least, your point was that this incident was not racially charged (which is different than saying he's racist of course). But the support for that argument was the 911 call. My point was that the fact that he doesn't mention the boy's race means nothing. Find better support. Beforehand, you were posting articles about completely unrelated stories. My point then was also that it didn't support your argument. I get your point, but come on, I hope you understand that what you're saying isn't helping your point at all. It's literally nonsensical.

I can see that you've got this typing thing down to a science (get it) I'm just trying to get you to use your noodle while you type.

Now you've bactracked from I've proven, to I'm implying, to now it's "the point I'm trying to make"

When you get to what I wrote, after listening to the tapes, I think he's an idiot with a gun. My beliefs from what I have listened to. I didnt start a thread mentioning 2 races and leaving out the race of the shooter.

I've posted articles here where race was definitely an issue, the criminals said they were attacking the victims because of the color of their skin. My point was in these cases no hate crime was prosecuted. This guy in Sanford is an idiot with a gun, you are trying to figure what was in his heart and mind, you cant do that, anymore than you can twist my words when what I wrote is right there. You can believe whatever you want.

You cant make a race thing out of an idiot with a gun thing.

[SFTB]

Hispanic is not a race

http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispanic.html

[giovanni_hotel]

George Zimmerman's 911 call. This guy is deranged.

George Zimmerman 911 call reporting Trayvon Martin - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A37N3zlZqw)


Florida's 2005 'Stand Your Ground' law is allowing assholes to literally get away with murder.


“A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”


Unbelievable.
All you have to do is tell a cop,' I thought Mr. X was going to kill me(with his bare hands) and in most cases if you murder someone after some altercation, most Florida law enforcement won't prosecute. No investigation, no nothing.


The other person doesn't even have to be armed.
Basically if you get in a public shouting match with someone, they have the right under Florida law to smoke you, if they claim they were afraid you were going to kill them first.


50/50 nothing happens to Zimmerman, even though he was stalking his victim.

[StinkyPete1000]

http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispanic.html
And? How does this prove me wrong? Because its on the census?? Seriously? Hispanic is a term used to describe a group of people who represent multiple races. That is why there are both black and white puertoricans but both can describe themselves as Hispanic. Come on dude. Read something.

[StinkyPete1000]

"Now you've bactracked from I've proven, to I'm implying, to now it's "the point I'm trying to make"

Not backtracking at all. If your reasoning for pointing out that the shooter did not mention the victim's race was NOT to support your point that he wasn't racist then what was your reasoning? My point (using "and at the very least") was meant to preempt any backtracking on your part. It's simple, if your focus on his failure to mention race on the 911 call was NOT to prove that he's not racist, then at the very least it was meant to prove that the crime was not racially motivated. But guess what, in either case, the fact that he didn't mention race is moot. Making that point is useless, unless you've got proof that his failure to mention race has meaning. You've not made that argument. So if I got it all wrong, why mention the fact that he didn't mention race at all?

"When you get to what I wrote, after listening to the tapes, I think he's an idiot with a gun. My beliefs from what I have listened to. I didnt start a thread mentioning 2 races and leaving out the race of the shooter."

I don't disagree that he's an idiot. So we agree on one thing. But idiots are certainly capable of making mistakes based on prejudice. You've concluded that he was simply an idiot why? Because he didn't mention the boy's race on the call? Again, that is not logical reasoning. You're playing down the racial aspect of this case because of that one fact. That's short-sighted. Like I said before, my problem is with how the police have handled this but the 911 call establishes nothing.

And, for the last time: Hispanic is not a race, even if it is on the census form. Look at Latin America as a whole. There are people of all races (the ex-president of Peru was of Japanese ethnicity but was a peruvian citizen). The word "hispanic" is a term used to pigeon whole the various cultures of Latin America simply because they speak the same language. I'm of puertorican descent and I can tell you that our culture has very little in common with Argentinian culture for example but you'd still classify us as Hispanic, right? It doesn't make any sense. While Spanish may be the common language, the individuals speaking the language are of many different races.

http://campello.tripod.com/hispanic.html

In fact, the 2010 census was updated to make it clear that Hispanic was NOT a race, it says: "For this census, Hispanic origins are not races." But I guess you wouldn't know that since your parents still fill your census out.
Race and ethnicity in the United States Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census)

"I've posted articles here where race was definitely an issue, the criminals said they were attacking the victims because of the color of their skin. My point was in these cases no hate crime was prosecuted. This guy in Sanford is an idiot with a gun, you are trying to figure what was in his heart and mind, you cant do that, anymore than you can twist my words when what I wrote is right there. You can believe whatever you want."

First, your articles are unrelated to this case so using them as examples is pointless. So they were clearly about race but not classified a hate crime...ok. So your problem should be with whoever makes that classification but it doesn't mean anything here. The fact that they were not classified as hate crimes is not the issue. The real issue, at least in my opinion, is how the criminal was treated. If the criminal was quickly arrested and punished, then the hate crime classification is meaningless. Obviously, if this crime here was classified as a hate crime, then that classification means nothing since Zimmerman has not yet been arrested.

I'm not trying to figure out what's in his heart. In fact, I mentioned earlier that my problem is with how this case was handled. Even if it wasn't racially motivated, it's still troubling that a young, unarmed black child can be murdered and the shooter can still walk around a free man while the investigation continues. It's weird that I'm the one trying to figure out what's in his heart when you've already concluded that he's just an idiot with a gun and that this was not racially motivated. How is that NOT trying to figure out what's in his heart?

[SpoogeMonkey]

Will you fuckers over there stop with your gun obsession.... Fucking security guard with a gun.. A wannabe cop... Probably slides across his bonnet when no one looking then whacks off whilst wearing his uniform. Only a matter time before someone is shot

[StinkyPete1000]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/17/10732812-family-911-calls-show-shooting-of-black-teen-was-not-self-defense

"These a-------. They always get away," Zimmerman said on a 911 call." (I wonder what he meant by "these assholes"...he probably meant young teenagers...)

"The two women, roommates, came forward to say they heard the teen calling for help." (To Sunshyne, yeah, he was probably robbing someone)

"Several Sanford residents who spoke to The Associated Press Friday said they think there would have been an arrest already if
the shooter had been black and the deceased had been white. They said blacks and whites in this city of 53,000 residents were pretty much in agreement that an injustice had been done with no one arrested, and that there was no racial divide in how the case is being perceived. The city is 57 percent white and 30 percent black."

[giovanni_hotel]

You can hear Zimmerman whipping this kid's ass as Travyon calls for help. Then the gunshot.
CAUTION 911 call Trayvon Martin yelling for help gunshot heard in background - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urq1eAxdRE8&feature=related)

[robertlouis]

Anyone considered the lunacy of gun laws so lax that a certifiable whack job like Mr Zimmerman can carry one and use it with apparent impunity in his neighbourhood? *smfh*

[Nowhere]

Look, the problem here isn't Zimmerman. There are crazy people everywhere with guns. The REAL problem is the police department. Even for some unforeseen reason he's exonerated (I doubt it), it is standard legal policy to arrest those people who kill other people. He should have been behind bars immediately and held there, just like anyone who has confessed murder, with the weapon and matching bullets to prove it. I am still in awe that this guy hasn't had a single charge brought against him and he's roaming free.

Is it possible you can get another police department to arrest the sheriff or whoever heads the Sanford Police Department for derelict of duty? That is insane.

[StinkyPete1000]

Look, the problem here isn't Zimmerman. There are crazy people everywhere with guns. The REAL problem is the police department. Even for some unforeseen reason he's exonerated (I doubt it), it is standard legal policy to arrest those people who kill other people. He should have been behind bars immediately and held there, just like anyone who has confessed murder, with the weapon and matching bullets to prove it. I am still in awe that this guy hasn't had a single charge brought against him and he's roaming free.

Is it possible you can get another police department to arrest the sheriff or whoever heads the Sanford Police Department for derelict of duty? That is insane.
Agreed. This was handled extremely poorly to say the least.

[fordly66]

Well, this isn't a case of a white guy that is crazy about his authoratative power. What you all have failed to notice, that the guy is of hispanic desent. So now it is not a evil white man. Everyone is all about blaming "whitey" for all of societies woes. You all need to get over your high and mighty attitudes. Oh, and all you euro-trash creeps need to take care of your own problems before you judge the U.S. That is all.

[Silcc69]

Well, this isn't a case of a white guy that is crazy about his authoratative power. What you all have failed to notice, that the guy is of hispanic desent. So now it is not a evil white man. Everyone is all about blaming "whitey" for all of societies woes. You all need to get over your high and mighty attitudes. Oh, and all you euro-trash creeps need to take care of your own problems before you judge the U.S. That is all.

LOL and that is one reason why the international world dislikes us.

[GroobySteven]

Well, this isn't a case of a white guy that is crazy about his authoratative power. What you all have failed to notice, that the guy is of hispanic desent. So now it is not a evil white man. Everyone is all about blaming "whitey" for all of societies woes. You all need to get over your high and mighty attitudes. Oh, and all you euro-trash creeps need to take care of your own problems before you judge the U.S. That is all.

Hispanic is white. "Eurotrash" haha -fuck off. As I said at the start of this thread, news is international, not exclusive.

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't care if Zimmerman was green with blue polka dots, the crime was racially motivated. Zimmerman stalked and confronted Trayvon because he was BLACK.

[buttslinger]

Funny how a thread based on a story like this gets all the idiots and racists to come crawling out of the woodwork.

YOU RANG?
Those Wannabe cops are the worst, I've had run ins with them before.
I believe there is a kind and all knowing God awaiting all of us, but trust me, in jail, they have NIGGERS there.

FINALLY, my chance to put up "fight on a bus" I was afraid I wouldn't be able to. Check out the sweet chick in the turquoise top and headphones.

And oh yeah, that poor kid got senselessly murdered. Period

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67V6D0oK0hM

[Stavros]

The reports I have read suggest that Trayvon was walking through 'a gated white community' -as he had gone to a store to get some Skittles and a soda, I assume he was taking a short cut to get back to the place where he was staying nearby, though it isn't clear why he would go through the 'gated community' and if he went through it on the first leg of the trip. What does interest me is the concept of Neighbourhood Watch, which we do have here in the EuroTrashland, as well as gated communities. If you then set someone up as a 'Neighbourhood Watch Captain' as I have seen Zimmerman described, you are inviting this person to behave responsibly or irresponsibly depending on their personality.

For example, Zimmerman immedately called the cops when he saw Trayvon and they told him to stay in his vehicle, but he not only left it, he took his gun with him as well. He could have just sat in the vehicle and 'observed'; or he could have approached the boy and asked him what he was doing in a 'gated community' which, presumably is equivalent to trespassing on private property (?). I don't know what Skittles are in the USA and whether or not they can cause serious injury, but there are times when people who are given authority exceed it, throw their weight around, and become irate and aggressive if someone dares to challenge them -after all in the end they are just citizens, not authorized policemen with the powers to arrest someone.

If it interests us here in EuroTrashland, it is not just because of the 'human interest', but because the Government is proposing a 'private-public partnerships' which will enable 'front-line policing' to focus on major crime while privately run squads will do things like patrolling neighbourhoods with the powers of arrest. Luckily most of our Police do not carry guns, but I can see some innocent person getting annoyed with an inflated ego in a uniform, and causing a disturbance which otherwise would not have happened.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/02/police-privatisation-security-firms-crime

[giovanni_hotel]

There was no 'neighborhood watch' in this community. Zimmerman appointed HIMSELF to be the 'Neighborhood Watch Captain'.


THis poor kid left a relative's house to go pick up an iced tea and candy from a convenience store, then headed back.

Zimmerman followed Trayvon all the way back home, confronting him before he could get to the door of his house.

[Stavros]

I got the info from this article in the NYT, there seem to be many disputed facts in this case...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=trayvon&st=cse

[yourdaddy]

No one will put the picture up of Trayvon in his hoodie...wonder why. They seem to love the 12 year old shots...wonder why.

Even the NY Times said that Zimmerman came from a "multi-racial" background. Maybe that will shut up the haters that hollered "White", and put me down for saying he was as white as obama.

I live in a multi-racial (Hispanic, Italian, Greek and Anglo) neighborhood. A single black kid would be stupid to walk around by himself in 85 degree heat with his sweat shirt hood up unless he was looking for trouble.

[Instrumental]

No one will put the picture up of Trayvon in his hoodie...wonder why.

Someone already did. Not that it's at all relevant to anything. And your internet detective bullshit trying to extrapolate criminal behavior from a person's fashion apparel is probably the most profoundly retarded thing I've had the displeasure of reading in a long time. Bottom line is, the kid was unarmed and pursued by a man who was armed. A man who was explicitly told not to by the police. Zimmerman had no business confronting him, let alone getting in any sort of altercation and shooting the kid.

[caliuncut]

I keep reading comments about how Zimmerman was Hispanic, insinuating that he couldn't be racist. I don't know where you guys live, but the whole concept of all minorities loving eachother and getting along is ridiculous. Minorities hate on eachother more than white people do...here in LA for example it is well knows that Blacks and Hispanics do not get along. Prejudice is not exclusive to white people....

[south ov da border]

I live in the area. That particular part of town has a history for horrible race relations. It's not a good place history wise for race relations.

they are not asking people from around the area the history of certain race relation incidents. If so, then it would change the light of this story.

but in the end, this guy is still a piece of shit delusional sob...

[fordly66]

Hispanic is white. "Eurotrash" haha -fuck off. As I said at the start of this thread, news is international, not exclusive.
That wasn't meant toward you. I read some comments from others on here and from times in the past about how things in the U.S. are so barbaric. Like every country in Europe is so superior, gets old hearing it.

And this young man shouldn't have been harassed and then murdered. I truely do hate hearing about black people being unjustly murdered.

[Nicole Dupre]

A single black kid would be stupid to walk around by himself in 85 degree heat with his sweat shirt hood up unless he was looking for trouble.
I thought it was raining.

And why can't a black kid wear whatever he wants? Wearing a hood on your head is a calculable risk now? What if he had on a Malcolm X t-shirt? What else can't a single black kid wear without risking having a self-appointed security guard with a gun kill them?

[yourdaddy]

You thought wrong...again. It's been dryer than a popcorn fart in Central Florida.

Hell, I'd wear a Malcolm X t-shirt if I had one. That's a hell of a lot better than a Winnie Mandela shirt. OOOoops. You are too young and naive to know who she was.

Here's a good Winnie story: While visiting the United Kingdom, Winnie Mandela was invited to a cocktail party which was also to be attended by Margaret Thatcher.

When Winnie saw the ex-prime minister on the other side of the room, she barged past everyone, spilling the drinks of several invited guests on the way.

Winnie elbowed her way to Maggie, stood brazenly in front of her and declared,

"I hear they call you the Iron Lady!"

"I have been referred to by that name, yes," replied Maggie, peering down her nose at this impudent upstart.

"And whom, may I enquire, do I have the honour of addressing?" asked Maggie icily.

"I am the iron lady of South Africa!" bragged Winnie, waving her fist in the air.

"Oh, yes," replied Maggie dryly. "And for whom do you iron?"

[BluegrassCat]

You thought wrong...again. It's been dryer than a popcorn fart in Central Florida.


Zimmerman says it's raining in the 911 call.

Zimmerman also seems to whisper "fucking coons" during the call, but it's hard to be certain.

Clearly, nothing racial here. Move along.

[Stavros]

As with so many/too many of these incidents, the details are contested so that its hard to know exactly what happened, vide:

It was raining...it was not raining
Zimmerman was a neighbourhood watch captain...Zimmerman was not a neighbourhood watch captain
Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon...Zimmerman was not attacked by Trayvon
The incident happened in a gated community...Trayvon was shot outside the gated community

What we do know is that an unarmed teenager was shot dead; that the law in Florida allows anyone with a gun "to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force".

The FBI are now investigating this incident.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/trayvon-martin-killing-investigation-opens

[Instrumental]

Trayvon was talking to a 16 year old female friend just before he was killed.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2iYNNWjOSo

[chromeheart44m]

rally in ny today at union square

[nonnonnon]

smh
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2009/08/28/news/cops_and_courts/doc4a97a70622185219277908.txt

[Odelay]

Here's what I don't understand, and maybe somebody has already raised this, but...

do Floridians who pack heat know the "stand your ground" law? Are they ready to shoot first and ask questions later because they know they'll beat any murder rap? If so, that's cold. Did Zimmerman know the law? Is it common knowledge amongst most gun enthusiasts in Florida and other states where it's been enacted.

I confess, I don't know crap about guns. 35 years ago, in HS, I would go out grouse hunting with a .410 gauge shotgun and friends. That's the extent of my knowledge.

[onmyknees]

Didn't take long to turn this into a real HA shit fest complete with amateur psychologists and wanna bee police investigators.. Remember when that French dude ( head of the World Bank) "raped " that black hotel chamber maid in Manhattan and they made him do the perp walk????? Go back and read that thread and some of the same people who wanted him castrated are playin' the judge and jury thing here again. Did you fuckers suck it up and say you were wrong about the Frenchman after the Manhattan DA dismissed the charges because she was lying? ? Sure you did. You think the cops and the FBI have released all the details? Hardly.
We have a seemingly good young kid dead............brutally tragic under any circumstances. We have some details that have been released.....and it appears "on the surface" to be something troubling , but I'd advise y'all keep that hanging rope put away for the time being. If any of you have ever felt the grip of a set of cuffs.....you know you're glad you live in a country where the presumption of innocence is a hallmark. And lest you think haters don't come in all colors......check this out. I wonder if this made the news over in the UK ? POLICE: Black teenagers light 13-year-old on fire; 'You get what you deserve, white boy' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWT5k-T41I&feature=related)

[yourdaddy]

THIS !!! Black on white crime is rarely reported, much less sensationalized. When are you leftist idiots gonna admit that truth? http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html

How many of you hiders have been molested, ripped off, or otherwise totally let down by black "friends"?

It's time you started blaming the Dutch, Portuguese,Africans, British, French, Spanish, and the other nations who were a hell of a lot more responsible for the injustices 300 years ago.

[Odelay]

Not sure what my position was on the Dominc Strauss/hotel maid thread. I might not have participated at all. I generally do withhold judgment on these criminal type of cases, but I'm human and sometimes I find myself taking a shortcut. On this case, as I state above, I'm more interested in how people... victims, defendants, bystanders, judges, etc., are interpreting the law. I haven't read this entire thread but "shitfest" seems a little bit of an overstatement. As in all of these threads, there are people who come blazing forward from opposite extremes, but much of the dialogue seems pretty reasonable. If I filter out the extreme viewpoints I can sometimes learn something, especially from people overseas who can be more objective or at least come at it from a different perspective.

[onmyknees]

Zimmerman says it's raining in the 911 call.

Zimmerman also seems to whisper "fucking coons" during the call, but it's hard to be certain.

Clearly, nothing racial here. Move along.


It's hard to be certain.........but apparently not for you. LMFAO....Why don't you contact the DA or the FBI....apparently you're armed with some very sensitive voice monitoring equipment, and if that's not enough, you're well equipped with a healthy dose of skepticism turned judgement. What you've stated here would certainly disqualify you from being an impartial arbiter of the facts...aka Jury Duty...Look...a young kid is dead, and his family grieves, so I'm not making light this, but it sounds based on what you've stated, you have the Tawana Brawley disease.
I haven't a clue if Zimmerman is a bigot...........nor do you, it may go to motive or intent if there's a murder of manslaughter charge, but that in and of itself isn't a crime otherwise a good percentage of folks on here would be in trouble !
Slow down...wait for the facts...... but nothing new for you so I'm moving along. lol

[Odelay]

On further thought, I don't think the Dominic Strauss situation is all that apt of parallel here. A far better one is Bernard Getz on the subway in NYC, and I think a person would find a much broader and varied point of view when polling people about the Getz situation compared with this Trayvon killing. On the subway, in NYC, the situation differed because there appeared to be little chance for Getz to flea the dangerous circumstance. Furthermore, he was surrounded by multiple individuals who seemed to want to do him harm. I wasn't part of the jury and didn't hear or read all the evidence, so I can't say for sure I would find Getz not guilty, but just based on the reports I did see, it seemed like a reasonable verdict. And I'm guessing at least some of the people here who are inflamed about the Trayvon killing probably view the Getz self-defense non guilty verdict, also reasonable.

So what I'm saying is that painting certain participants of this thread with the same brush, i.e. knee jerk liberal - or siding with the minority - or what have you, is probably not the most enlightened argument to make. Different circumstances will often produce different opinions for many people.

[Ben]

The License to Kill in Florida (http://tomhayden.com/home/the-license-to-kill-in-florida.html):

http://tomhayden.com/home/the-license-to-kill-in-florida.html

[south ov da border]

As with so many/too many of these incidents, the details are contested so that its hard to know exactly what happened, vide:

It was raining...it was not raining
Zimmerman was a neighbourhood watch captain...Zimmerman was not a neighbourhood watch captain
Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon...Zimmerman was not attacked by Trayvon
The incident happened in a gated community...Trayvon was shot outside the gated community

What we do know is that an unarmed teenager was shot dead; that the law in Florida allows anyone with a gun "to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force".

The FBI are now investigating this incident.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/trayvon-martin-killing-investigation-opens


The stand your ground law is not as cut and dry as it seems. I know personally. And the whole city of Sanford is corrupt. From the administration to the police.

The story does not make sense from what Zimmerman said. And I think that because his family and others are on record claiming he is a Latino, it actually brings more attention to the BS system in place there. I hope that something is done about the whole system of incompetence in Sanford...

[hangman]

This happened a couple of weeks ago. Why didn't this get much attention?

Teens set kid on fire for being white. (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station)

[timxxx]

This happened a couple of weeks ago. Why didn't this get much attention?

Teens set kid on fire for being white. (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station)



If cops had arrived at the scene just after the two black teens set the kid on fire.And the the two black teens claimed they set the kid on fire in self defence & the cops let them go home.Then you might have a point.

[buttslinger]

Turns out Zimmerman went to the same High School as the brother who I described in another thread as attacking me for jogging while white. I had a gun in my house and the black kids broke in and stole it. I'm not making this up. Stupidity comes in all sizes and all colors.

[trish]

It' s easy to see why a 17 year old black kid in a hoodie, eating skittles and talking on the phone to his girlfriend might be threatening to a would be neighborhood guardian sporting a sidearm who' s a foot taller than the kid. Zimmerman was probably trembling with fear for his life; indeed that' s his defense if he' s going to invoke the "stand your ground" law.

Of course no black kid should be wearing a hoodie and walking alone in a gated neighborhood right? He got what' s coming!

Every women in world fears for her life when she walks down a street at night or into the parking garage from her workplace. She fears when she see a strange man walking toward her or hears footsteps from behind. So from here on out all men, of any color, who live in "stand your ground" states... Be On Notice. You might get yourself shot if you walk the streets at night. It's best you just stay home. If you must go out, try not to look suspicious. Don' t walk behind a woman. Don' t walk toward a women. 'Cause we can now shoot you and walk away with impunity; all we have to say is, "I feared for my life."

[onmyknees]

On further thought, I don't think the Dominic Strauss situation is all that apt of parallel here. A far better one is Bernard Getz on the subway in NYC, and I think a person would find a much broader and varied point of view when polling people about the Getz situation compared with this Trayvon killing. On the subway, in NYC, the situation differed because there appeared to be little chance for Getz to flea the dangerous circumstance. Furthermore, he was surrounded by multiple individuals who seemed to want to do him harm. I wasn't part of the jury and didn't hear or read all the evidence, so I can't say for sure I would find Getz not guilty, but just based on the reports I did see, it seemed like a reasonable verdict. And I'm guessing at least some of the people here who are inflamed about the Trayvon killing probably view the Getz self-defense non guilty verdict, also reasonable.

So what I'm saying is that painting certain participants of this thread with the same brush, i.e. knee jerk liberal - or siding with the minority - or what have you, is probably not the most enlightened argument to make. Different circumstances will often produce different opinions for many people.


My intent on injecting DSK was not to compare the merits of his case with this case, or the particular circumstances. It was to shine a light on what can happen when there's a rush to judgement, but that's what we do as a society, and that's what the media feeds us so it's not about to change anytime soon. We want an investigation, a trial and a hanging in one news cycle. We all bring our life's experiences and preconceived notions to the table....black and white.... but when they run headlong into the facts....it's not pretty. For example...I hear some "spokesman" for the family calling for Zimmerman's arrest...shouldn't they be instead calling for a full, fair, and thorough investigation instead? Maybe the presumption of innocence got left along the road in this case...we'll see. They'll be plenty of time to arrest, try, and incarcerate Zimmerman if the circumstances are as some seem to feel.

[flabbybody]

there's little doubt that race is a primary factor in the way "suspicious" behavoir is treated by LE, and those who think they're LE

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=40104&highlight=frisk

[Nicole Dupre]

My intent on injecting DSK was not to compare the merits of his case with this case, or the particular circumstances. It was to shine a light on what can happen when there's a rush to judgement, but that's what we do as a society, and that's what the media feeds us so it's not about to change anytime soon. We want an investigation, a trial and a hanging in one news cycle. We all bring our life's experiences and preconceived notions to the table....black and white.... but when they run headlong into the facts....it's not pretty. For example...I hear some "spokesman" for the family calling for Zimmerman's arrest...shouldn't they be instead calling for a full, fair, and thorough investigation instead? Maybe the presumption of innocence got left along the road in this case...we'll see.
What were you in prison for? What prison was it? Did you get along with the black dudes much?

[nonnonnon]

I predict a big check for the victim's family in the future, similar to this story
Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori)

[Silcc69]

What were you in prison for? What prison was it? Did you get along with the black dudes much?

Oh shit.............

[giovanni_hotel]

Any time you shoot a stranger dead, a stranger that YOU followed in your car before provoking a confrontation, let's just say that where I live you'd be arrested until your guilt or innocence was decided by an immediate investigation.

Police typically don't investigate murders while the known assailant is still walking the streets free.

Can you imagine a Black guy 'patrolling' the streets of his neighborhood with a loaded 9 mm, stalking and confronting a White teenager because he 'looks' like a skinhead, shooting him dead and then claiming self-defense because the teenager fought back??

For the racially challenged, sometimes it helps to flip these scenarios to understand how outrageous it is that Zimmerman isn't in jail in lieu of a trial.

There aren't always two sides to every story.
It's just one side, the right one.

[Nicole Dupre]

Can you imagine a Black guy 'patrolling' the streets of his neighborhood with a loaded 9 mm, stalking and confronting a White teenager because he 'looks' like a skinhead, shooting him dead and then claiming self-defense because the teenager fought back??... or if he looked like a roadie for ZZ Top? ;-) lol

[flabbybody]

There is not a single piece of evidence to support the perpetatrator's claim of self defense. At the minimum, a first year law student could write a slam dunk indictment for involuntary manslaughter. There's motive (hate crime) and perp has admitted to causing the boy's death.
So why no charge and no arrest yet, given the incident happened last month?

[onmyknees]

What were you in prison for? What prison was it? Did you get along with the black dudes much?


LMFAO...Put it this way Leona, you would have never survived in the places I've been. I don't take your question as a serious one, but rather an attempt at an insult, but I'll take the high road....you reamin on the low...you're much more comfortable there. I told you once before.....in the military I had black dudes who would take a bullet for me, and me for them. That's a level of respect you'll never be able to grasp . You learn set race aside under the circumstances or you don't survive. When your only interaction with people of different races is spreading your ass cheeks...and then telling us how multi cultural and tolerant you are....it comes off as kinda foolish. And aren't you the one who told us you'd fuck black dudes ( aka take their coin) but never date them. Makes perfect sense to me ....LMAO When you think about it you're really not in a position to judge anyone now are you?

[pimpdog]

If somebody did that to one of my family members and got away with it, id kill them, period.

[onmyknees]

Any time you shoot a stranger dead, a stranger that YOU followed in your car before provoking a confrontation, let's just say that where I live you'd be arrested until your guilt or innocence was decided by an immediate investigation.

Police typically don't investigate murders while the known assailant is still walking the streets free.

Can you imagine a Black guy 'patrolling' the streets of his neighborhood with a loaded 9 mm, stalking and confronting a White teenager because he 'looks' like a skinhead, shooting him dead and then claiming self-defense because the teenager fought back??

For the racially challenged, sometimes it helps to flip these scenarios to understand how outrageous it is that Zimmerman isn't in jail in lieu of a trial.

There aren't always two sides to every story.
It's just one side, the right one.

I can imagine lots of things . I can imagine some lacrosse players being vilified for weeks as rich white punks praying on a poor black chic.


Certain stories of race crimes ( or perceived race crimes) seem to ignite passion...when others don't. The white kid set afire because he was white doesn't seem get any traction despite how heinous it was... Let's face it...black on white crime, and black on black crime is so common, it's hardly newsworthy. We know what we know about this case from the media...yea the same media who convicted the Duke dudes. This unfortunately has now become a circus and when the race pimps jump in with both feet.....many white folks start to become a little more suspicious, and with good reason. I do find it ironic that blacks who many times the victims of shoddy police work, and premature arrests are now screaming for the same. Everyone's going to use this for their own agenda. The media will use it to hype ratings, the anti gun crowd is gearing up, the race hustlers, even political commentary I've seen somehow tying Mitt Romney to this. It's disgusting. We have a dead 17 year old kid and a broken hearted family and now the exploitation will take everyone's focus off of that. We've now entrenched ourselves so deeply in our positions that are largely based on partial, sketchy, yet troubling information released, that no matter what the outcome, it's sure to cut deep and wide.
Unfortunately the "right side" as you put it may not be as cut and dried and gift wrapped as you'd like......

[derrick60053]

I sense a great disturbance in the force. Childish comments from both sides. We should check the random numbers at the global conciousness project. The mind appears quantum in nature. Entanglement requires an almost perfect vacuum in a laboratory. But I can think about Andrea Ravel in Rome at the speed of thought (faster miles an hour now, road runner).

[giovanni_hotel]

Don't be rhetorical, OMN.
Granted we all have limited knowledge on what occurred, but based on what you think you know from reports, as of right now what do you THINK happened??

IMO this case is unique. This would be the equivalent of finding a dead stripper at a Duke lacrosse party and saying she committed suicide.

It may be vaguely similar, yet it's totally unique.
And it's sad how Civil Rights activists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have been reduced to 'race pimps' by right wing critics to discredit any cause they're advocating.

Sharpton isn't making coin off of the death of Trayvon Martin. He's pushing this story because an injustice was done and the murderer still hasn't been arrested.

Owning a gun doesn't give someone the authority to act like a cop.

[pimpdog]

lol@act like a cop, killing unarmed blacks is acting like a cop.

[Ben]

Who Killed Emmett Till? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL1vMFwZEus)

[Faldur]

Eyewitness statement of the beating Zimmerman took..

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

How about we let the police do the job they are paid for, and quit jumping to conclusions.

[pimpdog]

Provoke child into fight, lose fight, kill child, profit?

[Nicole Dupre]

LMFAO...Put it this way Leona, you would have never survived in the places I've been. I don't take your question as a serious one, but rather an attempt at an insult, but I'll take the high road....you reamin on the low...you're much more comfortable there. I told you once before.....in the military I had black dudes who would take a bullet for me, and me for them. That's a level of respect you'll never be able to grasp . You learn set race aside under the circumstances or you don't survive. When your only interaction with people of different races is spreading your ass cheeks...and then telling us how multi cultural and tolerant you are....it comes off as kinda foolish. And aren't you the one who told us you'd fuck black dudes ( aka take their coin) but never date them. Makes perfect sense to me ....LMAO When you think about it you're really not in a position to judge anyone now are you?

"LMAO" at what? You didn't even understand what I said.

I said that I would fuck black guys purely for fun, and I do. There are black guys on this forum I've slept with without expecting a donation, if you must know. And believe it or not, you goofball, I have black friends. The LGBT population of the world embraces diversity a lot more than you do from what I can tell. You call people "libs" and assume who they vote for left and right. I don't even like politicians or politics. You're far too busy being a know-it-all with that crap. You're imagining things. I just know who's shitlist I'm higher up on, and that would be the Republicans who's dicks you seem obsessed with sucking, right along with tattooed transsexuals'.

Anyway it has nothing to do with coins. Black guys often turn me on in a big way. Sorry to burst your bubble. I just have a preference for mostly white guys in terms of LTRs. If I meet a black guy I get serious with tho', I'll let you know. Ok, Bluto? lol But wtf's that got to do with this?

Look. I just asked you if you were in prison because you come across as being ethnocentric at the very least. I've known people who've been to prison and they left with more prejudices than they went in with. I guess it's set up keep races apart. That's why I asked you. You don't have to be ashamed of being in prison around me, as long as you're not a cannibal or a child molester, pretty much.

[mildcigar_2001]

Don't be rhetorical, OMN.
Granted we all have limited knowledge on what occurred, but based on what you think you know from reports, as of right now what do you THINK happened??

IMO this case is unique. This would be the equivalent of finding a dead stripper at a Duke lacrosse party and saying she committed suicide.

It may be vaguely similar, yet it's totally unique.
And it's sad how Civil Rights activists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have been reduced to 'race pimps' by right wing critics to discredit any cause they're advocating.

Sharpton isn't making coin off of the death of Trayvon Martin. He's pushing this story because an injustice was done and the murderer still hasn't been arrested.

Owning a gun doesn't give someone the authority to act like a cop.

Such willful ignorance is hard to find (I sort of believe that you are really a white guy in a hood trying to make black people look stupid).

Al Sharpton is the very definition of a race hustler (Google Tawana Brawley, or the Crown Heights riots)

Tawana Brawley allegations a scam.
Duke stripper allegations of rape a scam.

By the latest acounts by an eyewitness was that the guy that got himself killed was attacking the shooter.

Why not take on something real like black on black violence. For example, in Chicago (10 people were killed in gang violence last weekend, including a six year old child).

[buttslinger]

What happens in the minds or on the streets of "The Land of the Free" doesn't surprise me at all anymore. But I can't believe conservative media is planting it's flag around it's timeless battle cry:
APB...black male...late teens...early twenties.....

[buttslinger]

Q) How many NYC police does it take to push a black man down the stairs?
A) None. He fell.

[onmyknees]

Don't be rhetorical, OMN.
Granted we all have limited knowledge on what occurred, but based on what you think you know from reports, as of right now what do you THINK happened??

IMO this case is unique. This would be the equivalent of finding a dead stripper at a Duke lacrosse party and saying she committed suicide.

It may be vaguely similar, yet it's totally unique.
And it's sad how Civil Rights activists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have been reduced to 'race pimps' by right wing critics to discredit any cause they're advocating.

Sharpton isn't making coin off of the death of Trayvon Martin. He's pushing this story because an injustice was done and the murderer still hasn't been arrested.

Owning a gun doesn't give someone the authority to act like a cop.



Well....I just read "in the media" that a witness has come forward and told police the young Mr. Martin was on top of Mr. Zimmerman. I have no idea as to the veracity of his statement, just as I have no first hand knowledge of any of the events....which is my precisely my point...neither do you. You're the one making leaps here...not me. You continue to call Zimmerman a murderer and you accuse me of being rhetorical? That's cute, but intellectually dishonest. You may be correct ultimately, but that comes after a trial....or did you forget about juris prudence in favor of mob justice? Sharpton and Jackson have showed up....so the shooter has to be guilty....right?
And spare me the lame defense of Sharpton doing this out of some reason other than self interest. This guy has made a career of race hustling, and it's worked out pretty well for him. He's now got a cable news show. I live in NY, and see his gig every day. Wherever there's a collection of TV cameras...it won't be long until he shows up bellowing some bull shit. I wonder if he's paid back any of the money he owes for being found guilty of liable in the Brawley case?
If you think this is some sort of veiled defense of Zimmerman, than you haven't understood a word I've said.

[giovanni_hotel]

Such willful ignorance is hard to find (I sort of believe that you are really a white guy in a hood trying to make black people look stupid).

Al Sharpton is the very definition of a race hustler (Google Tawana Brawley, or the Crown Heights riots)

Tawana Brawley allegations a scam.
Duke stripper allegations of rape a scam.

By the latest acounts by an eyewitness was that the guy that got himself killed was attacking the shooter.

Why not take on something real like black on black violence. For example, in Chicago (10 people were killed in gang violence last weekend, including a six year old child).


If the only thing you know about Al Sharpton is the Tawana Brawley case of nearly 30 years ago, you're ignorant.

Two names; Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell.

And Sharpton didn't have any personal involvement with the Duke lacrosse case.

So let me get this straight, it's perfectly fine to stalk some kid, provoke a confrontation in which you get your nose busted, then pull out your piece and smoke him and then claim 'self defense'??

If you wanna start a thread about Black on Black violence, do your thing. Doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen for looking 'suspicious' because he was the wrong color.

[Faldur]

Al Sharpton is the biggest racist in this country.

[onmyknees]

"LMAO" at what? You didn't even understand what I said.

I said that I would fuck black guys purely for fun, and I do. There are black guys on this forum I've slept with without expecting a donation, if you must know. And believe it or not, you goofball, I have black friends. The LGBT population of the world embraces diversity a lot more than you do from what I can tell. You call people "libs" and assume who they vote for left and right. I don't even like politicians or politics. You're far too busy being a know-it-all with that crap. You're imagining things. I just know who's shitlist I'm higher up on, and that would be the Republicans who's dicks you seem obsessed with sucking, right along with tattooed transsexuals'.

Anyway it has nothing to do with coins. Black guys often turn me on in a big way. Sorry to burst your bubble. I just have a preference for mostly white guys in terms of LTRs. If I meet a black guy I get serious with tho', I'll let you know. Ok, Bluto? lol But wtf's that got to do with this?

Look. I just asked you if you were in prison because you come across as being ethnocentric at the very least. I've known people who've been to prison and they left with more prejudices than they went in with. I guess it's set up keep races apart. That's why I asked you. You don't have to be ashamed of being in prison around me, as long as you're not a cannibal or a child molester, pretty much.

"If I must know"............well you appearently think I must have some desire to know because you proceeded to tell me.....so here's to letting you down easy.......I don't. Sorry. Don't get me wrong....You're interesting, but way to conflicted and moody.

I'm hardly ashamed of anything, in fact..."if you must know" I'd do it all over again if I had to and you know I don't feel inclined to discuss either my sex life, nor any details of my personal life on a forum like this. You do.....good for you.

I guess your reputation gets in the way many times because I didn't take it as a serious question, or at least one asked with a genuine desire to understand. Too bad because it's an instructive tale. Maybe we'll have dinner sometime and I'll come clean....but you'll have to sign a non disclosure agreement. You do ocassionally have an undesireable habit of revealing private conversations !!!!!!
:dancing:

[giovanni_hotel]

Al Sharpton is the biggest racist in this country.
Haha. Didn't know you were a foreigner, Faldur. When do you plan on returning to the island of Norman Rockwell??

http://m5.paperblog.com/i/10/100288/it-couldnt-happen-to-a-more-deserving-guy-L-46CptK.jpeg

[onmyknees]

If the only thing you know about Al Sharpton is the Tawana Brawley case of nearly 30 years ago, you're ignorant.

Two names; Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell.

And Sharpton didn't have any personal involvement with the Duke lacrosse case.

So let me get this straight, it's perfectly fine to stalk some kid, provoke a confrontation in which you get your nose busted, then pull out your piece and smoke him and then claim 'self defense'??

If you wanna start a thread about Black on Black violence, do your thing. Doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen for looking 'suspicious' because he was the wrong color.

Sorry Dude...you're ignorant....and blissfully so...You haven't a fucking clue how he tore this city apart, or the vile things he said about the district attorney and the governor, and many others....which is why he was found guilty of liable. You think a leopard changes his spots...? well then we're back to that ignorant thing again. His bio is littered with racially charged incidents. Google Sharpton and Freddie's Fashion Mart. Educate yourself man. But setting Sharpton aside....

Again...you're the one who's buying the current version of events fed to you by the media. You're the one with the rush to judgement. A conviction of murder or even manslaughter involves intent and state of mind. You'd like me to believe you know what Zimmerman's intent was based on media reports? Why don't you let the Special Prosecutor do his job and lay the facts and evidence out before enflaming the situation with your bias?

[giovanni_hotel]

Give me a possible scenario where Zimmerman was justified in killing Trayvon Martin.
I've heard the 911 call. It gives a fairly clear picture of Zimmerman's motive and state of mind.
Zimmerman saw a 'suspicious' Black youth in a hoodie, who appeared to be on drugs(?), with his hand down his waistband.
Trayvon's cell phone records show that he was on the phone with his GF five minutes before police arrived on the scene to find him dead on the ground.

Two sides to this story....my ass.

[Mr. Sinister]

George Zimmerman should be in jail for murder. This idiot did not wait for the cops after a 911 operator told him not to pursue Trayvon. Trayvon would still be alive if he listened to the 911 operator. Because Zimmerman was not a police officer, Trayvon should not have been bothered by him. But of course, Zimmerman thought that he was a police officer and approached Trayvon.

Anyone who defends George Zimmerman probably hates African-Americans and is a racist. Zimmerman is a pure idiot who should be in jail!

America is a multiracial nation. We have a black president. To the racists, if you don't like it, leave America!

[Mr. Sinister]

I wish more Americans would stop hating each other because of their skin color or sexual orientation. We all have to learn to live together in peace.

RIP Trayvon Martin!

[onmyknees]

If the only thing you know about Al Sharpton is the Tawana Brawley case of nearly 30 years ago, you're ignorant.

Two names; Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell.

And Sharpton didn't have any personal involvement with the Duke lacrosse case.

So let me get this straight, it's perfectly fine to stalk some kid, provoke a confrontation in which you get your nose busted, then pull out your piece and smoke him and then claim 'self defense'??

If you wanna start a thread about Black on Black violence, do your thing. Doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen for looking 'suspicious' because he was the wrong color.


Hey GH...I don't want to turn this into something it's not. There's a family grieving, but you might want to rethink Sharpton's involvement in the Duke Case...


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd0_1192025762&p=1

[Odelay]

I'm not really getting the hate on Gio, or even on his remarks. Some of you have made the argument that there's a rush to judgment going on here, and that's fine. But let's not be blind to the fact that we live in a culture that encourages us to rush to judgment. I'm not even going to begin to list any examples, but all one has to do is think for 10 seconds and examples will come flooding into your mind. This is a porn/TS forum that people come onto to have fun, discuss shit, etc. It's not some legal theory forum for serious individuals. Hung Angels is part of pop culture, and I would say is representative of pop culture in many ways. When you accuse "the media" for this firestorm around the Trayvon killing, your target is far too narrow. It's our entire culture that brings these things about... not just various reporting outfits that you happen not to like.

[mildcigar_2001]

[

If you wanna start a thread about Black on Black violence, do your thing. Doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen for looking 'suspicious' because he was the wrong color.[/QUOTE]


I'm just wondering why you are afraid to comment on black on black violence, or black on white violence. As I said in my earlier comments 10 people (including a six year old child) where killed in Chicago last weekend. Where is your outrage???

Just for a thought experiment:

Which is safer:
A. A black guy walking alone a night in Watts
B. A white guy walking alone a night in Watts
C. A black guy walking alone a night in Suburbia

I think the correct answer is "C" by a large distance.

This is due in large part to the breakdown of the black family and the lack of positive male role models for kids. Be concerned the a good number of today's black youth think achievment in school is "white." The black community needs to have a lot more self discipline before it starts to whine about the "Man."

[Willie Escalade]

I've walked alone at night in Watts countless times without any problems.

[trish]

It's not a matter of hate or racism. The pertinent issue is the ridiculous NRA sponsored "stand your ground" laws that are proliferating in this country. Police are finding these laws to be a serious obstruction. Drug dealers are walking away from murders simply by citing these laws. All they have to do is claim they were afraid for their lives and stood their ground. The I-Was-So-Fucking-Afraid-And-Cowardly-I-Pulled-Out-A-Hidden-Gun-And-Shot-The-Dude laws need to be repealed.

[buttslinger]

A 2011 U.S. Department Of Justice study reports that Blacks are six times more likely to be victims of violent crime than whites. The same study reports that Blacks are eight times more likely than whites to be perpetrators of violent crime than their white counterparts.

Does this study suggest that Blacks are the only people committing crime? Not at all. The same study states that 84 percent of Whites are killed by Whites while 93 percent of Blacks are killed by Blacks.

When I ran the streets of DC, I'd get my white whore allies to go to the neighborhoods I couldn't go. There where some neighborhoods even they couldn't go. We saw one alley nobody could go into.

This is OUR country. We are ALL Americans.:soapbox

[buttslinger]

I've walked alone at night in Watts countless times without any problems.

translation: "pull over Jeeves, we need vermouth"

[giovanni_hotel]

translation: "pull over Jeeves, we need vermouth"

Except that Escalade is a BM.

Welcome to the board, newbie.

[Willie Escalade]

Except that Escalade is a BM.

Welcome to the board, newbie.
I'm actually a dark mocha.

[martin48]

It's not a matter of hate or racism. The pertinent issue is the ridiculous NRA sponsored "stand your ground" laws that are proliferating in this country. Police are finding these laws to be a serious obstruction. Drug dealers are walking away from murders simply by citing these laws. All they have to do is claim they were afraid for their lives and stood their ground. The I-Was-So-Fucking-Afraid-And-Cowardly-I-Pulled-Out-A-Hidden-Gun-And-Shot-The-Dude laws need to be repealed.

Reading about the background to this guy, he did seem to have a bias against blacks. But you are right - how the hell do you vote in laws that basically say "I shot someone 'cos I felt like it"? There's some really sick guys in politics in the US.

[buds]

here is the picture of him the Media won't post:


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/469120_10150703341928703_786648702_9380091_1986945 102_o.jpg

[buds]

here is another article i found, makes you wonder


http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...trayvon-martin (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.


Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion. Maybe you still think Zimmerman was wrong to pull the trigger. However, I think you will come to the conclusion that the "mainstream" clearly is pushing an agenda. Even when they have to grossly alter and adjust a story to fit that agenda.

[onmyknees]

I'm not really getting the hate on Gio, or even on his remarks. Some of you have made the argument that there's a rush to judgment going on here, and that's fine. But let's not be blind to the fact that we live in a culture that encourages us to rush to judgment. I'm not even going to begin to list any examples, but all one has to do is think for 10 seconds and examples will come flooding into your mind. This is a porn/TS forum that people come onto to have fun, discuss shit, etc. It's not some legal theory forum for serious individuals. Hung Angels is part of pop culture, and I would say is representative of pop culture in many ways. When you accuse "the media" for this firestorm around the Trayvon killing, your target is far too narrow. It's our entire culture that brings these things about... not just various reporting outfits that you happen not to like.


You're confusing hate with disagreement....if you were referring to me. I know you didn't mean "hate" in the literal sense, but I'm reactionary to that word since it's used many times as a political tool. I don't hate GH....the dude's fine. Probably a stand up guy IRL. I can absolutely understand his and others anger, and pain, and the fact this has gone on for weeks with no signs of a resolution. That's all fair...we all see things from a different prism. But it may have more to do with a bungled investigation, and an incompetent local PD rather than looking out for a white/Peruvian dude. I personally don't think the omni present race hustlers help the situation, but rather enflame it even more, but that's something we're never going to agree on. Far be it for me to appoint "spokesman" for the black community, but you want to pour 93 octane on smoldering embers....call in the crew and you'll get your wish.

My point from the beginning is these things almost NEVER are quite what they seem initially, and take time so sort out. Now that the dividing lines have been clearly drawn...what happens now if the investigation finds neither man knew the intent of the other.....as young Mr. Martin was being followed by Zimmerman, he may have had no idea why....and why should he? He was doing nothing wrong talking to his girlfriend on the phone. Zimmerman had no idea Martin had no illegal intent. Suppose we learn that at some point Mr. Martin out or a sense of self protection,understandably turns and physically confronts Zimmerman pushing him to the ground and begins to beat him. Zimmerman's state of mind in an instant now becomes what Martin's was just several minutes previous.....self protection. Tragic, profoundly sad, probably avoidable,..............but criminal? We'll see. But at that point it becomes irrelevant because some have invested so much in the outcome before all the facts are known, that they can't walk it back from their entrenched position......thus another sad incident in race relations.

And now I'm out.....because you're right...this is a porn forum.

[trish]

You're right Martin, that racism is an issue here, but I see the "stand your ground" laws as main issue. Gun crime tripled in Florida since the inception of their "stand your ground" law. Of course it's generally blacks dudes getting shot, 'cause they're so fucking fearsome.

In a parallel universe Zimmerman accosts Trayvon, Trayvon turns to run but Zimmerman catches him by the arm; a struggle ensues...Zimmerman's gun goes off and Zimmerman dies. Trayvon, a young black man in a hoodie, is found by the police standing over the dead body; the street light dancing in the expanding pool of blood. What happens next? The reader can fill in the details. Does Trayvon go to jail? Is he brow-beating into confessing to second degree murder? Or does Trayvon get to invoke the "I thought my life was in danger" law? Was the law even meant for someone like Trayvon? Did the law even have any real meaning other than just another NRA lobbying effort for politicians to endorse to prove their second amendment bona fides and get themselves re-elected?

[trish]

In another alternate universe, it's Trayvon who is carrying a concealed semi-automatic. He always takes it with him when he visits his friends in gated-communities. There's a lot for a young black man to fear in such places, given the current binge of "stand you ground laws." In this universe Trayvon is accosted by Zimmerman, the self-appointed community watch guardian, and Trayvon turns to avoid a confrontation. But Zimmerman insists on confronting the young man. In this world Zimmerman dies by Trayvon's gun; Zimmerman doesn't have any...he has a pack of skittles. Trayvon truthfully confesses he was afraid for his life. He would like to invoke the "stand you ground" law. In this universe are the bigots so circumspect and unsure about what really happened?

[Silcc69]

here is another article i found, makes you wonder


http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...trayvon-martin (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.


Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion. Maybe you still think Zimmerman was wrong to pull the trigger. However, I think you will come to the conclusion that the "mainstream" clearly is pushing an agenda. Even when they have to grossly alter and adjust a story to fit that agenda.

LOL that writer is so full of shit.

Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

Love how this guy fails to mention that he was 140lbs too. IDK of any towering football player that is 140lbs.

[martin48]

You're right Martin, that racism is an issue here, but I see the "stand your ground" laws as main issue. Gun crime tripled in Florida since the inception of their "stand your ground" law. Of course it's generally blacks dudes getting shot, 'cause they're so fucking fearsome.

In a parallel universe Zimmerman accosts Trayvon, Trayvon turns to run but Zimmerman catches him by the arm; a struggle ensues...Zimmerman's gun goes off and Zimmerman dies. Trayvon, a young black man in a hoodie, is found by the police standing over the dead body; the street light dancing in the expanding pool of blood. What happens next? The reader can fill in the details. Does Trayvon go to jail? Is he brow-beating into confessing to second degree murder? Or does Trayvon get to invoke the "I thought my life was in danger" law? Was the law even meant for someone like Trayvon? Did the law even have any real meaning other than just another NRA lobbying effort for politicians to endorse to prove their second amendment bona fides and get themselves re-elected?

Well, if you weren't so keen to carry weapons, make it so damn easy to obtain them, make a legal system so punitive ("three strikes and you're out") that as a petty criminal I don't care a shit what happens, etc, etc - then these situations wouldn't occur. But such thinking regards at least two steps, a bit of logic and acceptance of facts! Let's find the parallel universe.

[mildcigar_2001]

Well, if you weren't so keen to carry weapons, make it so damn easy to obtain them, make a legal system so punitive ("three strikes and you're out") that as a petty criminal I don't care a shit what happens, etc, etc - then these situations wouldn't occur. But such thinking regards at least two steps, a bit of logic and acceptance of facts! Let's find the parallel universe.


Well, you should move to Chicago which has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country. I guess Chicago must be the safest city in America. In reality we know that Chicago has one of the highest homicide rates in the U.S., as opposed to any number of cities that allow thier citizens to defend themselves. Just because someone believes in second ammendment rights does not mean they go around and kill blacks. However, black criminals as well as white criminals should be wary.

[trish]

Just because someone believes in second ammendment rights does not mean they go around and kill blacks. No one is making that claim. I endorse the second amendment. But it doesn't follow that I should endorse "stand your ground" laws.

Nor am I claiming a direct cause and effect between gun regulation and gun crime. There are hundreds of factors that impinge on any given city's rate of gun related crime, including the poverty rate, amount of corruption in the legal system, willingness to enforce and to support the enforcement of the laws that are on the books etc. etc. There is however a direct relationship between what crimes you can hope to prosecute a criminal for and the crimes that are on the books. Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion and not the murders that he ordered. If it's too expensive and impossible to convict a murderer, then put him in jail for carrying a concealed weapon...oh can't do that...because too many little boys want to carry their toys with them where ever they go and not suffer of embarrassment of carrying them out in the open.

[south ov da border]

if the second goes, so goes any semblance of freedomin this country.

I live in the area, and Sanford is a corrupt city, officials and police. The fact that this happened there is making it more of an issue because it is an environment ripe for something like this.

But I do think Obama and crew since they personalized this situation are going to aim for more gun restrictions.

BTW that shoot first law is strictly subjective. I know people who defended themselves and got hit with manslaughter or 2nd degree charges. It's not as cut and dry as people think...

[robertlouis]

I know it's not possible to turn the clock back and that gun ownership sadly remains central to many American lives, but surely when a guy like Zimmerman has open access to firearms and is then bolstered by the "stand your ground" laws and a tragedy like this ensues there needs to be at the very least a long hard look at the concept of SYG?

Speaking from the UK perspective, and yes, we do have the strongest gun control laws in the world, I find it simply unbelievable that the man who fired the gun wasn't arrested. Speculation over what happened and the rush to premature judgement in the absence of agreed facts is one thing, but surely the failure of the local police to take appropriate action in the immediate aftermath is what requires the greatest scrutiny at this juncture?

[Silcc69]

I know it's not possible to turn the clock back and that gun ownership sadly remains central to many American lives, but surely when a guy like Zimmerman has open access to firearms and is then bolstered by the "stand your ground" laws and a tragedy like this ensues there needs to be at the very least a long hard look at the concept of SYG?

Speaking from the UK perspective, and yes, we do have the strongest gun control laws in the world, I find it simply unbelievable that the man who fired the gun wasn't arrested. Speculation over what happened and the rush to premature judgement in the absence of agreed facts is one thing, but surely the failure of the local police to take appropriate action in the immediate aftermath is what requires the greatest scrutiny at this juncture?

Even Jeb Bush the governor who implemented the SYG law said that it didn't apply to Zimmerman.

[mildcigar_2001]

Even Jeb Bush the governor who implemented the SYG law said that it didn't apply to Zimmerman.


I think last summers riots in London demonstrate what happens when you deny law abiding citizens guns and tell them that they can't defend themselves or their property. Look what happened when the police become overwhelmed. The law abiding citizen is left to the tender mercy of thugs.

At least here in America, I'm able to defend myself and my business from rioters. If someone tries to burn down or steal my property they will be shot. That is the essence of stand your ground laws, that the law abiding citizen should not have to run away from criminals.

[Silcc69]

I think last summers riots in London demonstrate what happens when you deny law abiding citizens guns and tell them that they can't defend themselves or their property. Look what happened when the police become overwhelmed. The law abiding citizen is left to the tender mercy of thugs.

At least here in America, I'm able to defend myself and my business from rioters. If someone tries to burn down or steal my property they will be shot. That is the essence of stand your ground laws, that the law abiding citizen should not have to run away from criminals.

But that didn't apply to Zimmerman who decided to chase somebody down when he wasn't suppose to.

[giovanni_hotel]

If you own a store and its overrun by 'rioters' if you murder 20 looters good luck avoiding a lifetime in prison.
Castle laws are meant to prevent someone from stealing your property; if someone is stealing a TV from your store, you aren't then allowed to used lethal force to protect your property.

[Stavros]

I think last summers riots in London demonstrate what happens when you deny law abiding citizens guns and tell them that they can't defend themselves or their property. Look what happened when the police become overwhelmed. The law abiding citizen is left to the tender mercy of thugs.

At least here in America, I'm able to defend myself and my business from rioters. If someone tries to burn down or steal my property they will be shot. That is the essence of stand your ground laws, that the law abiding citizen should not have to run away from criminals.

In fact it was to a great extent a gun that sparked the riots in London -the first riot was a response to the murder of a suspect: the man who was shot dead by the police had a gun in his possession, which is why it was the armed police who were sent to arrest him; he would otherwise have been arrested like anyone else, and still be alive today. Guns have always been available to hardened criminals in this country, but since the break-up of the USSR the availability of relatively cheap guns from eastern Europe and Russia has led to even minor gang members having access to a gun, to borrow or own. This has given crime an extra dimension it did not have when blades and fists were the weapon of choice.

As for the police tactics, are you seriously suggesting that shop owners should be allowed to kill people who raid their premises? What happens after that? This is the UK, not Tombstone or the OK Corral; it may not be perfect, but RobertLouis is wrong, we don't have the toughest gun laws in the world; they are far too lenient. It is now clear that the only way for this country (the UK) to go, is to get really tough and ban all firearms, with the exception of those needed by farmers. Too many men with access to guns who also had known mental health problems have gone ape and killed their own families and innocent passers by. The regulations didnt work. If it means the end of gun clubs for sport, I think that is a small price to pay. Dog-fighting used to be a 'sport' in this country, and though it sometimes happens in secret, it is a sickness that has been eradicated. Time for the guns to go.

Rather this thread focus on the Trayvon Martin killing, we have discussed guns before on HA with no conclusion.

[mildcigar_2001]

[As for the police tactics, are you seriously suggesting that shop owners should be allowed to kill people who raid their premises?


Yes, I am seriously suggesting that if someone is taking you hard earned property without your permission that you are allowed to use physical force to prevent them doing such (including the use of a firearm). Are we supposed to mill about like so many sheep while others destroy what has often taken a lifetime to build. The Korean shopkeepers who defended their stores with handguns during the Los Angeles riots (of almost 20 years ago) are a good example of this.

The British seem to afford too many "rights" to Thugs. Once again as the London riots demonstrate the police often cant's be everywhere at once, and you need to be able to protect yourself, your family and your business. This is a matter is civilization being willing to protect itself against the barbarians. We will get into big trouble when we start trying to buy them off (the dole) rather than standing up to them and demanding civilized behavior.

As for Mr. Zimmerman, I don't know what transpired, but the latest information has the 17 year old attacking him versus the kid being hunted down because he is black.

[Silcc69]

[As for the police tactics, are you seriously suggesting that shop owners should be allowed to kill people who raid their premises?


Yes, I am seriously suggesting that if someone is taking you hard earned property without your permission that you are allowed to use physical force to prevent them doing such (including the use of a firearm). Are we supposed to mill about like so many sheep while others destroy what has often taken a lifetime to build. The Korean shopkeepers who defended their stores with handguns during the Los Angeles riots (of almost 20 years ago) are a good example of this.

The British seem to afford too many "rights" to Thugs. Once again as the London riots demonstrate the police often cant's be everywhere at once, and you need to be able to protect yourself, your family and your business. This is a matter is civilization being willing to protect itself against the barbarians. We will get into big trouble when we start trying to buy them off (the dole) rather than standing up to them and demanding civilized behavior.

As for Mr. Zimmerman, I don't know what transpired, but the latest information has the 17 year old attacking him versus the kid being hunted down because he is black.

What part of the 911 responder call of don't pursue did you not understand? Had Zimmerman NOT pursued like he was told not to do then none of this shit would've happened.

[giovanni_hotel]

You can't START A FIGHT with an unarmed stranger, proceed to get your fat ass whupped, then pull out a 9mm and smoke the other guy and 'claim' self-defense.

The outrage over this case stems more in part that Zimmerman wasn't arrested on probable cause and his WORD was taken as fact instead of police doing a thorough investigation,( interviewing witnesses, checking the calls on Trayvon's cell before he was killed, etc.).

If Zimmerman NEVER gets out of his SUV, there is no story.

Why don't people understand that you as a private citizen don't have the RIGHT to label people criminals who only are walking home at night, confront and attempt to detain them and when they refuse, or try to fight you, you then have the right to shoot them dead.

Imagine some asshole is following YOU home in the middle of the night and asks, 'what are you doing here?','who are you?', and your accuser isn't even a police officer??

I know if I were Trayvon, as soon as Zimmerman got in range after telling that prick to 'back up off me', I'm swinging on him.

THat's the difference between SELF DEFENSE and being a stalker.

[Stavros]

[As for the police tactics, are you seriously suggesting that shop owners should be allowed to kill people who raid their premises?


Yes, I am seriously suggesting that if someone is taking you hard earned property without your permission that you are allowed to use physical force to prevent them doing such (including the use of a firearm). Are we supposed to mill about like so many sheep while others destroy what has often taken a lifetime to build. The Korean shopkeepers who defended their stores with handguns during the Los Angeles riots (of almost 20 years ago) are a good example of this.

The British seem to afford too many "rights" to Thugs. Once again as the London riots demonstrate the police often cant's be everywhere at once, and you need to be able to protect yourself, your family and your business. This is a matter is civilization being willing to protect itself against the barbarians. We will get into big trouble when we start trying to buy them off (the dole) rather than standing up to them and demanding civilized behavior.

As for Mr. Zimmerman, I don't know what transpired, but the latest information has the 17 year old attacking him versus the kid being hunted down because he is black.

But surely the key point is precisely whether or not a private citizen should have a 'right to kill', which even in the case of Florida and its 'stand your ground' concept has been challenged on this board. So it is not as simple as it sounds, and does not account for those events in which a shopkeeper shoots someone dead because he doesn't like the look of them, or because they tried to steal a packet of chewing gum.

The police were taken by surprise on that first night in Tottenham and on the subsequent nights across the country; it is widely believed they got their tactics wrong, which presumably means that in future they will deploy in a different way. Not much consolation to shopkeepers who did lose everything, some of whom were not insured and who will find new insurance harder and more expensive. For what its worth, most of the rioters who ended up in court have had more severe sentences handed down than is normally the case; you can't say they got away with it.

[mildcigar_2001]

Imagine some asshole is following YOU home in the middle of the night and asks, 'what are you doing here?','who are you?', and your accuser isn't even a police officer??


People have a right and a duty to "police" their own neighborhoods. Especially in a gated community (which I believe was the case in the current controversey).

All the facts are not yet out, but it seems like this might be another case (like the Duke rape case), that the race hustlers choose a side without regard to the facts. When some communities always cry "wolf," it becomes more difficult believe them when something truly happens. (tawanah brawley, duke rape case, girl from Berkely who had a noose nailed to her dorm room, and these examples are just off the top of my head).

[Silcc69]

Imagine some asshole is following YOU home in the middle of the night and asks, 'what are you doing here?','who are you?', and your accuser isn't even a police officer??


People have a right and a duty to "police" their own neighborhoods. Especially in a gated community (which I believe was the case in the current controversey).

All the facts are not yet out, but it seems like this might be another case (like the Duke rape case), that the race hustlers choose a side without regard to the facts. When some communities always cry "wolf," it becomes more difficult believe them when something truly happens. (tawanah brawley, duke rape case, girl from Berkely who had a noose nailed to her dorm room, and these examples are just off the top of my head).

Again what part of the 911 responder call did YOU not get?

[mildcigar_2001]

The latest headline from the Orlando Sentinel:

Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow, then began hammering his head

See the linked article:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

It looks like once again Al Sharpton and the race hustlers are trying to make fools of all of us, and lynch an innocent man in the process.

[robertlouis]

The British seem to afford too many "rights" to Thugs. Once again as the London riots demonstrate the police often cant's be everywhere at once, and you need to be able to protect yourself, your family and your business. This is a matter is civilization being willing to protect itself against the barbarians. We will get into big trouble when we start trying to buy them off (the dole) rather than standing up to them and demanding civilized behavior.



Stop violence by arming everyone? You're a moron.

[giovanni_hotel]

The latest headline from the Orlando Sentinel:

Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow, then began hammering his head

See the linked article:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

It looks like once again Al Sharpton and the race hustlers are trying to make fools of all of us, and lynch an innocent man in the process.

Dead men tell no tales.

Zimmerman is a PUSSY. That's why he's rolling around in his SUV with a loaded 9mm.

I wish I could have seen Zimmerman's fat ass roll up on 140#, 17 year old Trayvon talking shit like he was a police officer and see him get swung on.lol

If you follow someone in your car and the person you're following doesn't know you AND sees that you're following him, then you get out of your car and try to confront that person, afterwards your ass getting swung is....SELF DEFENSE.

Good to know all these law-abiding citizens on HA would allow themselves to be followed by an unknown car, have the driver of that vehicle get out and question you for no reason since he's not a cop, and then try to tell you he wants to detain you until law enforcement arrives, and I guess some of you would willingly comply.

Stupid.

Pointing out racism isn't a 'hustle'.
As of right now the only hustle going on is on those people who think Trayvon wasn't racially profiled in the first place because he was Black.

[GroobySteven]

Stop violence by arming everyone? You're a moron.

Well said, that man.

[trish]

Yes, I am seriously suggesting that if someone is taking you hard earned property without your permission that you are allowed to use physical force to prevent them doing such (including the use of a firearm).That's fine. But then beware that you are saying that material goods are worth more than human life. So the GOP has to stop claiming they're the pro-life party.

[EvonRose]

Zimmerman should face justice, he wasn't suppose to cary a gun, i think as a neighborhood watch you could have called the cops to arise suspicion, shooting the kid in a suburban hood, when your not suppose to even be carrying a gun is suspicious criminal intent.

[martin48]

I think last summers riots in London demonstrate what happens when you deny law abiding citizens guns and tell them that they can't defend themselves or their property. Look what happened when the police become overwhelmed. The law abiding citizen is left to the tender mercy of thugs.

At least here in America, I'm able to defend myself and my business from rioters. If someone tries to burn down or steal my property they will be shot. That is the essence of stand your ground laws, that the law abiding citizen should not have to run away from criminals.

There were lots of lessons to be learned from thee riots including the need for the Police to respond quickly with a large show of force, but there were 5 very unfortunate deaths. If it was the USA, and guns can be owned by both sides, then how many deaths would there have been?

[nonnonnon]

you've never heard carry a big stick?

[onmyknees]

What part of the 911 responder call of don't pursue did you not understand? Had Zimmerman NOT pursued like he was told not to do then none of this shit would've happened.


I was waiting for someone to make that point. Recall several months ago when the OWS students were told by police to move or they'd be pepper sprayed ? That was a direct order....Well they didn't move and if I recall they were roundly cheered here for disobeying the police. So in some cases we're to pay no mind to the police, and other orders should be adhered to? Interesting dichotomy.

[buttslinger]

Facts be damned now, If Zimmerman doesn't do hard time, there will be riots in the streets.

[trish]

So in some cases we're to pay no mind to the police, and other orders should be adhered to? Interesting dichotomy. Exactly. Try reading Civil Disobedience by Thoreau.

[yourdaddy]

Here is an example of where jessie jackson should be spending his time. Black on Black crime is so rampant, but the media won't dare cover it. This is pitiful: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/26/female-bodies-found-in-detroit-shallow-grave-likely-to-be-two-missing-friends/?test=latestnews

[mildcigar_2001]

Stop violence by arming everyone? You're a moron.


An armed society is a polite society.

Right now in the UK only the criminals are armed. What I am suggesting is arming the law abiding citizens.

[mildcigar_2001]

Facts be damned now, If Zimmerman doesn't do hard time, there will be riots in the streets.


Thanks to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

I really don't understand why this case merits more attention than the horrible black on black violence that happens every day. It would be of more benefit to the black community to have the race hustlers focus on that intractable problem.

[onmyknees]

Exactly. Try reading Civil Disobedience by Thoreau.



Try reading it? Try again.

You sure you read it? The thesis was that citizens should be governed less.....doesn't sound like you at all ! lol

You seem to want to litigate this before there's even an arrest.
Back off...that's the DA's job. We get that you're anti gun, anti stand your ground laws, and in certain instances...anti cop...but none of that is relevent.
The point was you can't pick and choose what police orders to obey....that's inconsistent and you don't get to arbitrate that without first paying the consequences...And weren't you the one whining about police brutality after they were pepper sprayed...when they were told that was exactly what was going to happen if they didn't obey the order to leave?

[giovanni_hotel]

Are you really equating students disobeying a police order to disperse resulting in being aggressively and excessively pepper sprayed, to this Zimmerman psycho who was told by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW a random Black male ( who was not committing any crime except for being Black), whose decision not to comply directly resulted in the DEATH of an innocent kid??

As citizens we ALL have the right to choose whether or not obey civil law.
If one is protesting what they perceive to be an unjust law, they have the right and responsibility to disobey a police order, as long as they aren't at risk for bodily harm to themselves or others.

George Zimmerman wasn't engaged in any act of civil disobedience; he chose to ignore the request from the 911 operator not to pursue Trayvon because he was too busy playing fantasy cop.

Mildcigar, most victims of violent crime were assaulted by someone of the same racial/ethnic background. Why is Black on Black crime so dear to your heart??

[Nicole Dupre]

The dumb white trash guys can't help letting everyone know exactly who they are on a thread like this. lol

[robertlouis]

An armed society is a polite society.

Right now in the UK only the criminals are armed. What I am suggesting is arming the law abiding citizens.

Explain that one for a start, please. :confused::confused::confused:

The UK in its essentially unarmed state has 2% of the gun crime rate of the US.

I was right first time around. You're a moron.

[buttslinger]

I can't believe Conservative Media is choosing this battle to fight.

[trish]

You seem to want to litigate this before there's even an arrest. Me?? Where? I think my comments were mainly directed at the "stand your ground" laws, rather than at Zimmerman. Talk about having a reading comprehension problem. Perhaps you should listen to others before you go on broadcast.

[BluegrassCat]

True colors really starting to show through: Right-wingers now calling Martin a gang-banging punk and calling Zimmerman a hero for shooting an unarmed teenager. Just disgusting.

http://moonbattery.com/?p=9744http://bit.ly/GSI1By

[EvonRose]

Explain that one for a start, please. :confused::confused::confused:

The UK in its essentially unarmed state has 2% of the gun crime rate of the US.

I was right first time around. You're a moron.

I want to move to the UK.

[robertlouis]

I want to move to the UK.

I've tidied the house..... :whistle:

[Willie Escalade]

"We live in America where a girl that threw flour on Kim Kardashian was arrested on site. But the man who KILLED Trayvon Martin is still free." -Willard Christopher Smith, JR

And THIS is why so many are upset. With those other incidents, someone was almost ALWAYS arrested.

[Willie Escalade]

Also, if he HAD to shoot an unarmed man who "posed a threat to his safety", why didn't he shoot him in the leg or something?

[Stavros]

An armed society is a polite society.

Right now in the UK only the criminals are armed. What I am suggesting is arming the law abiding citizens.

Factually speaking, only a small percentage of Policemen are 'authorised firearms officers', with an exception for Northern Ireland for obvious reasons. In addition, most farmers have a licence to own a firearm; licences are also issued on a regular basis to members of gun clubs and relevant sporting societies. When Prince Charles and his sons go on a shooting weekend, to shoot grouse or pheasant, they too must have first obtained a licence to carry weapons. So law abiding citizens can possess weapons, but the majority do not, it is a cultural thing. Many more French people, for example, own guns and go hunting at weekends. The guns that criminals use tend to be borrowed, or purchased from illegal sources -if a young black man strolls into a police station in north London to ask for a gun licence, he runs the risk of being arrested, for wasting police time. If I were to go to my local police station for the same reason, I would not get a licence because I cannot explain why I want a gun. Its not easy, and it shouldn't be.

The key in this Trayvon Martin case is the way the facts come out drip by drop, so that was was true on Monday is not true on Wednesday, and what was true on Wednesday isn't true by the weekend.

[notdrunk]

Also, if he HAD to shoot an unarmed man who "posed a threat to his safety", why didn't he shoot him in the leg or something?

Because this isn't the movies. People are thought to go for the center mass because it is a big area. If someones adrenaline is pumping, most people can't focus on shooting a limb. In this case, they were in a struggle and where very close together. So, the possibly of limb shooting is out of the question.

[notdrunk]

*were very close together..boo to one time editing

[Jericho]

Explain that one for a start, please. :confused::confused::confused:

The UK in its essentially unarmed state has 2% of the gun crime rate of the US.

I was right first time around. You're a moron.

Yay, but that's because most of the population is legally unarmed !

If we had the same gun laws as the sates, our murder rate would be off the scale! (give a brit a gun, he wants to shoot some fucker)! We're not mentally predisposed to carry weapons.

[Jericho]

Also, if he HAD to shoot an unarmed man who "posed a threat to his safety", why didn't he shoot him in the leg or something?

People are trained to shoot at the chest...Times of stress, training takes over.
Not excusing it, just the way it is.! :shrug

[SFTB]

I can't believe Conservative Media is choosing this battle to fight.
I cant believe your calling ABC, Huffington, and Yahoo as well as every other outlet conservative media.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-shooting-details-emerge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

Here you see an interview with the witness, a black youth who says it was Zimmerman on the ground, and Martin on top. But I guess he's part of the great right wing conspiracy also? Willie in all fairness if 2 people are struggling on the ground and the gun goes off...I said weeks ago this was an idiot with a gun, and let the police sort it out. Oh no, he was a cold blooded killer who stalked an angel and killed him in cold blood. Zimmerman's past was open season, but as soon as they peek into Trayvon's past, its all the media trying to demonize the victim. Zimmerman who is half white is described by the media as a "white/hispanic" but in 3 years I've never heard our President called a "white/black."

[buttslinger]

If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, he could have gotten off on the stand your ground law.....right? He was being stalked by a guy with a gun. right? Trayvon probably bought his skittles with food stamps. You guys never smoked pot in high school?
My kin down south don't like damn yankees passing judgement over them, that's fine. This has nothing to do with that.

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman stalked Trayvon because he was BLACK, and assumed Trayvon had 'criminal intent'. Zimmerman even stated that Trayvon was RUNNING AWAY from him on the 911 call.

Zimmerman left his SUV with a loaded 9mm on his waist....for what purpose?? What legal authority does one civilian have over another who ISN'T BREAKING THE LAW?

What happened next is all Zimmerman's word and the partial eye witness testimony of observers, or those who heard the fight from their homes.

Sorry, but when you follow someone for several blocks, park your car to chase them down and approach them with a sidearm strapped to your waist, YOU are the aggressor and whatever else happens after the fact is YOUR FAULT.

See, this is what happens when there's no investigation. We don't know the condition of Trayvon's body, if he had any defensive wounds or was hurt prior to being shot. The Sandford PD tested the DEAD Trayvon for drugs, and if he'd just smoked a spliff before getting murdered that would have been the justification that he was the aggressor by authorities.

But NO ONE drug tested the shooter.

This entire case is about RACE Zimmerman.

If Trayvon was White, Zimmerman would not have followed him and called him in to 911. If Trayvon had been White, Zimmerman would have been arrested on the spot, or either fleed the scene. If Trayvon had been White, the PD would have conducted a probable cause investigation.

If Trayvon had shot Zimmerman, Trayvon would still be in jail.

Just because conservatives think racism is a political lever used by progressives to socially divide an innately good, colorblind nation(lol), doesn't me it doesn't exist.

[SFTB]

Giovanni
There was an autopsy on Trayvon's body. So we would know if there are defensive wounds, ( while he was on top Zimmerman beating his head) A drug test is part of an autopsy.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view.bg?articleid=1061119691&srvc=rss

Giovanni, it doesn't serve your purposes to acknowledge this at the moment, but somehow this "colorblind(lol)" nation as you put it, elected a black president, has made a black woman its biggest highest paid entertainer, put over a dozen black atronauts in space, it goes on, but you know it.

This tragedy has been hijacked by people who are using it for their own purposes.

[buttslinger]

I hope the Supreme Court doesn't decide this case! Yeah, I talkin to YOU, Scalia!

[pimpdog]

So what if Treyvon gained the upper hand in a altercation? if a rapist attacks a jogger, and she scratches his eyes out, kicks him in the nuts and gets away, is he allowed to execute her?

[Silcc69]

Giovanni
There was an autopsy on Trayvon's body. So we would know if there are defensive wounds, ( while he was on top Zimmerman beating his head) A drug test is part of an autopsy.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view.bg?articleid=1061119691&srvc=rss

Giovanni, it doesn't serve your purposes to acknowledge this at the moment, but somehow this "colorblind(lol)" nation as you put it, elected a black president, has made a black woman its biggest highest paid entertainer, put over a dozen black atronauts in space, it goes on, but you know it.

This tragedy has been hijacked by people who are using it for their own purposes.

A majority of liberals might be color blind, but the conservatives LOL doubtful.

[brickcitybrother]

This case will not solve our problems, differences or issues! It will only highlight them! Each participant in the discussion only approaches the issues from their perspective (without considering an alternative).

We will not solve this case here and making either person a monster will not help.

OJ walked because the prosecution wanted him to be a monster. [He was no monster. He was a jealous man who killed two people. John Wayne Gacey or Jeffery Dalmer he was not].

The police officers who attacked Rodney King were portrayed as monsters and walked because of it. [They fell into a mob/group mentality of 'contempt of cop' and did not realize they went from overzealous to dangerous reactions].

You want to be angry ... be angry at slip-shod police work that gave us the situation we have now. But if you want to create monsters... be prepared to become one yourself because you either identify with young Trayvon or Mr. Zimmerman (and each side is doing their best to make the other the MONSTER)

'Nuff said - back to watching

[EvonRose]

There are no evidence of Trayvon vandalizing, or breaking in, or robbing, or hurting people. This guy I believed picked on him for no reason nd just gave that lame excuse of Trayvon being suspicious, Like what the person said below, If he had a gun I think he was licensed, he was trained better than to shoot carelessly, Willie is right. although a watchman should not have guns! They are not allowed to carry, unless they are security. Trayvon regardless of drugs or his personal troubles, or what not that's his personal battles and he could have changed but all that hope has been taken away for him to create a better life, that does not give a 30+ man to kill a kid. Zimmerman would have easily taken his skinny built down without the gun. He may not be white, but he is latino, and in my neighborhood in San Francisco latinos and blacks seem to have racial hate towards each other. So maybe that plays a role. I could be wrong, I know it's the same with New York, and Chicago, and Miami.

[eccentricBlue]

I find it pathetic that verdicts have been passed without all the evidence. The boy was not a saint, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be shot. However when you attack an armed man you shouldn't be surprised when he retaliates.

I'm just saying that I prefer to hear the evidence before jumping on the media bandwagon. This whole situation reeks as bad as the Duke Lacrosse Rape fiasco.

[yourdaddy]

http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html

[yourdaddy]

I want to move to the UK.

Get your ass over there then. And when the muslim fundamentalists start taking over that country and shooting and killing your kids like they did in France, you're gonna feel pretty damned impotent throwing a bag of chips at them.

I just bought an M-1 Garand to go along with my SKS and various other weapons I've owned most of my life. I have never used them in the commission of a crime or in anger. I have fed myself well using these weapons, and I will go down fighting with them if I have to.

[trish]

Hoodies don't kill people, Guns do.

[yourdaddy]

Hoodies with guns kill a lot of people. Luckily, it's mostly people in other hoodies right now.

[trish]

Guns and bullets are proximate causes of death in 100% of all gun murders.

[rameses2]

If Zimmerman DIDN'T have his gun, would he still have confronted someone he described to the Police dispatcher as "on drugs" and "up to no good"?

Maybe, if he hadn't had his gun and still confronted Tray, a 17 year old kid might still be alive to tell HIS side of the story...

[mealticket]

Zimmerman stalked the kid after the dispather said not to follow him...the kid defended himself when zimmerman confronted him so obviously zimmerman may have wounds, I dont think zimmerman can plea self defense if he was the agressor, you cant go chase a kid down and then claim self defense...he then shot and killed the kid, how he is not arrested at this point is beyond me...i know they say they may lack evidence...but that is the job of the prosecutor to find the evidence needed,...zimmerman killed a teenage boy who was only walking by his house after buying some food, just because the kid looked suspicious there was no need for violence or death...zimmerman should be put on trial for at the least manslaughter..

[Nicole Dupre]

Zimmerman stalked the kid after the dispather said not to follow him...the kid defended himself when zimmerman confronted him so obviously zimmerman may have wounds, I dont think zimmerman can plea self defense if he was the agressor, you cant go chase a kid down and then claim self defense...he then shot and killed the kid, how he is not arrested at this point is beyond me...i know they say they may lack evidence...but that is the job of the prosecutor to find the evidence needed,...zimmerman killed a teenage boy who was only walking by his house after buying some food, just because the kid looked suspicious there was no need for violence or death...zimmerman should be put on trial for at the least manslaughter..
The police fucked it all up. They should have tested Zimmerman for drugs and booze right away.

[ed_jaxon]

I did not want to weigh in but some of the idiocy here is astounding.

Pulling up a "what about this story" is the height of stupidity. We can all do it and it does nothing to help sort out the truth of the story. It's immature.

Stretching the truth beyond the facts is also specious as not one of us was there. Assigning motive is speculative.

What I have read is that:

Zimmerman was quoted on the 911 transcript saying some bigotted shit.

Zimmerman followed Trayvon despite being told not to by the dispatcher

Trayvon had been expelled from a zero tolerance school for having a trace amount of weed. (How some can stretch that to he was a drug dealer is beyond me)

Zimmerman was not charged

Some in the police department have come forward and said they wanted a manslaughter charge but were rebuffed

Sanford Chief of Police has stepped down temporarily

When I read all of this my question was how can a security guard have so much juice that he can be involved in a shooting and not be arrested?

I believe that the anger against Zimmerman is misplaced. Is he a bigot? I would say so based on his words. (Whether he is white blue or green is immaterial)

The deeper anger is at the system that allowed him to walk out uncharged. If he is charged I believe this is a non story as it happens pretty often.

One last fact, make of it what you will. Zimmerman's father was a judge.

[Nicole Dupre]

Florida is the most corrupt, bumbling, incompetent state in the union. It's a great place to get high and fuck your brains out, but that's about it. :2cent