17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[giovanni_hotel]

Maybe he didn't want to go to the Hospital because they'd take a blood test. Who knows what they'd find.

Yeah, when you listen to those 911 calls made by Zimmerman, he sounds a little loaded. Not quite slurring his speech, but IMO he comes across like he's high, out of it.

[jamesedwards]

Doesn't matter one way or another to me. As I've stated before, my reason for posting was so it got attention, which it did - and and investigation was opened.
The only thing that really disturbs me is the racist attitudes of you and a few others who will continue to argue that it was right for Zimmerman to kill a young person and the laws and culture which have allowed it.

GOTTA AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT ONE. People still not looking at two facts 1. Zimmerman was told not to engage, he's not a professional and he shouldn't have approached Trayvon and he lied about being punched at his SUV. 2. The neighborhood watch rules are a. Don't carry a weapon b. Don't engage a suspicious person.

He broke all the rules and went after Trayvon, self defense don't apply to him. People who support Zimmerman is basically supporting gun toting but are blind to the facts of Zimmerman being wrong.

[jamesedwards]

Yeah, when you listen to those 911 calls made by Zimmerman, he sounds a little loaded. Not quite slurring his speech, but IMO he comes across like he's high, out of it.


Yeah he sounds a bit off in the 911 tapes.

[zulusierra]

They both fucked up.

George shouldn't have confronted Trayvon. Trayvon shouldn't have bowed up. The more info that comes out the more it seems they were both out of line and there is no "right" party in this situation.

It really sux that two young men just starting their lives (along with their respective families) have had their futures shattered. "Play stupid games win stupid prizes".

What bothers me is the blatant editing of info. The 911 calls. The pics released of Trayvon as a zygote when he was a tatted-up >6 ft wanna-be (or maybe real; IDK) "gangsta". If you read his (since taken down, but saved for posterity) twitter feed (under his "nolimitnigga" screenname) you will see that (like a lot of young men) he felt like he needed to prove his toughness to the world. I get it. I had an element (my wife would probably tell you I still do) of machismo to my personality at that age as well.

Let me be clear though, no matter what either of them was into (nothing wrong with a little recreational chemical use), or what past poor decisions (we've all been stupid) either of them had made in life this was a tragic, senseless loss of life.

pic related:
http://i.imgur.com/krB60.png

http://i.imgur.com/5k9hg.jpg

[GroobySteven]

They both fucked up.

George shouldn't have confronted Trayvon. Trayvon shouldn't have bowed up. The more info that comes out the more it seems they were both out of line and there is no "right" party in this situation.

It really sux that two young men just starting their lives (along with their respective families) have had their futures shattered. "Play stupid games win stupid prizes".

What bothers me is the blatant editing of info. The 911 calls. The pics released of Trayvon as a zygote when he was a tatted-up >6 ft wanna-be (or maybe real; IDK) "gangsta". If you read his (since taken down, but saved for posterity) twitter feed (under his "nolimitnigga" screenname) you will see that (like a lot of young men) he felt like he needed to prove his toughness to the world. I get it. I had an element (my wife would probably tell you I still do) of machismo to my personality at that age as well.

Let me be clear though, no matter what either of them was into (nothing wrong with a little recreational chemical use), or what past poor decisions (we've all been stupid) either of them had made in life this was a tragic, senseless loss of life.

pic related:


No no no - this is just fudging it all. The only fact that remains unchanged is that George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighbourhood watch, took a gun and followed someone. That's the only FACT that led to this incident.

[zulusierra]

No no no - this is just fudging it all. The only fact that remains unchanged is that George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighbourhood watch, took a gun and followed someone. That's the only FACT that led to this incident.

Your screenname says you're european, is that correct?

I don't think you understand the reality of life+mindset of citizens in the southeast US. Whether wrong/right/neither (I'm not arguing either way) if you live somewhere like Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, or Alabama you need probably ought to be familiar with the following quote:

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
-Robert A. Heinlein

It is what it is.

[GroobySteven]

They both fucked up.

George shouldn't have confronted Trayvon. Trayvon shouldn't have bowed up. The more info that comes out the more it seems they were both out of line and there is no "right" party in this situation.

It really sux that two young men just starting their lives (along with their respective families) have had their futures shattered. "Play stupid games win stupid prizes".

What bothers me is the blatant editing of info. The 911 calls. The pics released of Trayvon as a zygote when he was a tatted-up >6 ft wanna-be (or maybe real; IDK) "gangsta". If you read his (since taken down, but saved for posterity) twitter feed (under his "nolimitnigga" screenname) you will see that (like a lot of young men) he felt like he needed to prove his toughness to the world. I get it. I had an element (my wife would probably tell you I still do) of machismo to my personality at that age as well.

Let me be clear though, no matter what either of them was into (nothing wrong with a little recreational chemical use), or what past poor decisions (we've all been stupid) either of them had made in life this was a tragic, senseless loss of life.

pic related:
http://i.imgur.com/krB60.png

http://i.imgur.com/5k9hg.jpg


Your screenname says you're european, is that correct?

I don't think you understand the reality of life+mindset of citizens in the southeast US. Whether wrong/right/neither (I'm not arguing either way) if you live somewhere like Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, or Alabama you need probably ought to be familiar with the following quote:

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
-Robert A. Heinlein

It is what it is.

I've lived in the USA for over 12 years and travelled more states and more fucked up places in the USA than most Americans. I understand what you are saying - I'd probably be armed if I lived in some cities there also, however, it doesn't alter the fact that he behaved like a vigilante - he took the weapon, he left his house and he followed.

Why does it have to be what it is? Some of your states used to have canibals? Marry at 12? Kill men for sport? Things CAN change. Other countries have - but that's for a different topic.

[zulusierra]

it doesn't alter the fact that he behaved like a vigilante - he took the weapon, he left his house and he followed.

Why does it have to be what it is?

I agree.

I don't know. If you figure it out plz let me know asap.

[AmyDaly]

No no no - this is just fudging it all. The only fact that remains unchanged is that George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighbourhood watch, took a gun and followed someone. That's the only FACT that led to this incident.

That actually isn't true. He was asked to do it per statements of other residents of that community. I also don't see anything wrong with following and reporting suspicious activity. Especially since there was a huge string of break ins and robbery in the community. I've followed and reported drunk drivers before. They even tell us to report drunk drivers. There is no way to tell they are drunk other than suspicious driving actions. Am I a vigilante reporting drunk drivers? What if some drunk sees me reporting them and decides to hit me with their car? Guess its my fault for trying to do the right thing. Same thing goes with this. Some large kid you've ever seen before walking in the rain looking around at all the apartments. There is no evidence that says he chased him or initiated any contact. Only evidence that he was attacked. You can just as easily say trayvon turned around and approached zimmerman from behind, which is what is looking like what happened from all the actual evidence coming out.

[AmyDaly]

however, it doesn't alter the fact that he behaved like a vigilante - he took the weapon, he left his house and he followed.
He was acting like anyone else would. I've reported people walking around my parking garage who looked suspicious. Does that make me a vigilante? What if they approached me and attacked because they didn't want me to report them and I just happened to be packing? Am I a vigilante or someone who didn't want my car to be fucked with and got jumped by some hoodlum who didn't want me calling the cops?

The guy has a permit for the gun and carried it around with him, which was within his rights. He didn't leave his house to follow the guy. He was driving in his car and saw the man looking suspicious, got out and called the cops. I'm failing to see the problem.

[zulusierra]

The guy has a permit for the gun and carried it around with him, which was within his rights. He didn't leave his house to follow the guy. He was driving in his car and saw the man looking suspicious, got out and called the cops. I'm failing to see the problem.

You are not wrong.

However "COMMA" as someone who is licensed/trained to carry concealed it is important to keep in mind that sometimes, "discretion is the better part of valor" -Shakespeare, in Henry IV, Part One, 1596.

If it is at all possible for me to flee a situation (off my private property/ outside my auto) without using my weapon it is what I will do. We don't know if George had a chance.

Now on my property I'm not backing down. Period. Some of that USMC brainwashing never goes away, lol...

[maddygirl]

I read the kid was beating him and threatening him...

[AmyDaly]

You are not wrong.

However "COMMA" as someone who is licensed/trained to carry concealed it is important to keep in mind that sometimes, "discretion is the better part of valor" -Shakespeare, in Henry IV, Part One, 1596.

If it is at all possible for me to flee a situation (off my private property/ outside my auto) without using my weapon it is what I will do. We don't know if George had a chance.

Now on my property I'm not backing down. Period. Some of that USMC brainwashing never goes away, lol...

The evidence says trayvon was on top of him beating his ass. Zimmerman says he pulled the gun when treyvon saw it and went for it. At that point, I don't see fleeing as an option. If it is true that trayvon attacked zimmerman from behind, beat his ass and went for his gun, I prolly would of used the gun as well.

[maddygirl]

It is a shame it escalated to that level of violence though..

[zulusierra]

The evidence says trayvon was on top of him beating his ass. Zimmerman says he pulled the gun when treyvon saw it and went for it. At that point, I don't see fleeing as an option. If it is true that trayvon attacked zimmerman from behind, beat his ass and went for his gun, I prolly would of used the gun as well.

Have they said why he got out of his vehicle?

Why I'm asking is I still haven't read why he was close enough to be attacked in the first place. It will be interesting to see how things actually went down.

My prediction: there's no way they get him on any murder charge. They're trying to scare him into a plea deal.

[pnsmcgraw]

While I do ultimately side with Zimmerman if the evidence proves that Martin was indeed attacking him, I in no way condone his behavior up to the point at which everything went sour. I have heard tale of Zimmerman following Martin, kind of like he was tailing him. This is not well becoming of a licensed carrier, as I would never actually promote confrontation with anyone, for the sole fact that I am indeed carrying. This is part of the reason why Zimmerman is in trouble to begin with, if Martin had confronted him, there would be practically no contest in court that Zimmerman had done what was needed and within the law to protect himself.

[jamesedwards]

Both their faults? Nah don't agree.

Why I don't agree with you? Because 1. You're going by some pics Trayvon put up, most teens out here in the urban community act like that and they are going through a phase, some are real gang members and some are not, Tray was not a gang member he was just acting up. Does that constitute him getting shot? HELL TO THE NO~!!!

Proven fact Trayvon was no gangsta, the phone call he made to his girlfriend while he was frighten someone was following him. He was scared, a gang member either would of confronted first of pull out on Zimmerman being Tray didn't have a gun and was scared shows he wasn't a gang member. The reason he fought back was because of his self preservation nature kicked in to protect himself, he even RAN!!! So if he ran and Zimmerman was able to catch up to him that means Zimmerman went after him. Since when is it wrong to go to the store buy some thing and go back home? You explain that to me and us.

For the umpf teen time, Zimmerman was told not to engage, he was the predator not Tray, so he was the only one wrong, he also had a gun he was wrong because the neigborhood watch rules is DON'T CARRY A WEAPON AND DON'T ENGAGE A PERSON he violated both. He is at fault no one else, Tray was minding his business and going where he was going. If Zimmerman would of let the police handle this, either the Police would of killed Tray or Tray would of bee questioned by the police or Tray would of made it to the house without anyone finding him. No, Zimmerman took it upon himself to be a WANNA BE COP!!! If you wanna talk about wanna bees, that fool in his mind thought he was a cop and had the right to do whatever he wanted.

Prior to that, he assaulted a cop and his ex and she took out a restraining order against him, he has a history of violence and he's a fucking nut case.

The blame is only on one person here and that's ZIMMERMAN!!!


They both fucked up.

George shouldn't have confronted Trayvon. Trayvon shouldn't have bowed up. The more info that comes out the more it seems they were both out of line and there is no "right" party in this situation.

It really sux that two young men just starting their lives (along with their respective families) have had their futures shattered. "Play stupid games win stupid prizes".

[jamesedwards]

While I do ultimately side with Zimmerman if the evidence proves that Martin was indeed attacking himf.

What evidence that Trayvon was attacking him? Let me ask you something how the hell do you say EVIDENCE show Trayvon was attacking him when 1. Trayvon has a phone record of a girlfriend where he said SOMEONE IS FOLLOWING ME, then his girlfriend said Tray ran, this is confirmed by Zimmerman who said he is running. He ran away from the situation because he was scared.

2. Evidence shows that Trayvon was going to and from the store minding his own business and he was one the phone talking to his girl!!!

3. Evidence shows that Trayvon couldn't have attacked Zimmerman like Zimmerman said "HE ATTACKED ME FROM THE LEFT SIDE AS I TRIED TO GET INTO MY SUV" bullshit. Zimmerman said himself to the dispatcher that Trayvon went into the gated community and made a turn, Zimmerman SUV was parked outside the gated community near the entrance, and they were inside the complex so that means Zimmerman went after him if Trayvon RAN!!!

4. Zimmerman approached Trayvon wrong asking him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE" wtf ? How the fuck do you approach someone like that? Phone records show Trayvon saying "WHO ARE YOU" then pushing and shoving happened.

How can the person that runs away be the attacker? You gotta explain that with logic, Trayvon fought back to protect himself and punk ass Zimmerman couldn't fight so he used a gun!!!

Evidence, Tray never had a weapon!!! So how is it that Trayvon attacked him again?

[buttslinger]

The DA based it's arrest on evidence gathered.....some of it phone texts by Zimmerman up to a month after. That can't be good.

[yourdaddy]

The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find.
First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/).
Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/records-detail-george-zimmerman-medical-injuries/).
It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows.
The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/#ixzz1v4xb21NE

[jamesedwards]

Here's the lay out map from where Zimmerman drove from the Front gate and stopped at the entrance where he saw Trayvon walking.

http://img1.imagehousing.com/80/9febffd7dc14ce04c785402ba0c65a04.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1016551)
http://img1.imagehousing.com/16/aa39335743c83d7f10b0111f8ababb85.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1016553)

[buttslinger]

The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense.

If Martin, an unarmed man walking home from the store, had killed the gun toting Zimmerman by SLAMMING his head against the pavement while yelling for help, would he be innocent then?
I'm SO glad Fox News has gotten into this.

[jamesedwards]

The DA based it's arrest on evidence gathered.....some of it phone texts by Zimmerman up to a month after. That can't be good.

Exactly, the DA put that at 2nd degree murder and not man slaughter, you know why? Because Zimmerman actually killed Trayvon and the evidence showed he did just that. Man slaughter for Zimmerman would of been this.

If Zimmerman had chased Trayvon and Tray would of ran into a car because Zimmerman was chasing him and Tray feared for his life, that would be man slaughter because Zimmerman caused the death not actually do it. So the DA couldn't prove Zimmerman had intent to kill that's why he didn't get 1st degree murder charge and why he got 2nd degree murder charge. His history is violate and the Police dept there fucked up a whole lot.

1. They have the original report that said MANSLAUGHTER but he didn't get arrested, the DA is like WTF.
2. Trayvon's body in the morgue for 3 days as a john doe but they had info of who Tray was hours later not days later.
3. Police dept said Zimmerman was clean, fuck outta here he assaulted an officer and assaulted his ex in 2005.
4. Zimmerman got like over 40 calls on people being in the neighborhood, like he's a fucking mad man. Security guards don't make that many dam calls.

Zimmerman as you can see lied he was not hit at his SUV he was hit when he pushed Trayvon and Tray fought back and was kicking his punk ass and he decided to shot Trayvon.
Zimmerman lied once you think he wouldn't lie again to cover his ass? He said Trayvon reached for his weapon, bull shit. He lied and said that to say self defense, but the fucked up thing is Zimmerman went after Trayvon that's a fact and it's evidence and Zimmerman will be locked up.

[Stavros]

The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find.
First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/).
Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/records-detail-george-zimmerman-medical-injuries/).
It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows.
The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/#ixzz1v4xb21NE


From the link you provided but the quote you chose not to paste into your post:

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.
“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin (http://www.wftv.com/s/news/trayvonmartin/),” Sheaffer said.
The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.
But Sheaffer said there could be another explanation for Martin's knuckle injury.
“It could be consistent with Trayvon either trying to get away or defend himself,” Sheaffer said.

In other words, people are still 're-constructing' the events on the basis of a drip-drip of edited comments so that the whole truth is not known. I understand the frustration and drive going on, but every time I read this thread I find the same 'facts' have more than one meaning.

[jamesedwards]

The evidence says trayvon was on top of him beating his ass. Zimmerman says he pulled the gun when treyvon saw it and went for it. At that point, I don't see fleeing as an option. If it is true that trayvon attacked zimmerman from behind, beat his ass and went for his gun, I prolly would of used the gun as well.

Riddle me this because I am baffled by your statement. Why did Zimmerman go after Tray when he was told not to engage the Teen? If Zimmerman would not have gone after Tray because it's evident that Tray ran away Zimmerman said that himself on the phone call he made to 911. Didn't Zimmerman have a chance now to not proceed? Fleeing is not an option you say but dam I am confused didn't Zimmerman by the evidence put himself in that predicament? If I was Tray I would of kicked his ass too, you don't follow me and ask me WHAT AM I DOING HERE? WTF type of approach is that? Zimmerman is a liar Tray didn't reach for his gun. He used that as an excuse.

[jamesedwards]

Thank you, see how dudes is, they wanna tell one side of the story then get their asses caught out there, see. Dudes are so hell bend for Zimmerman they wanna paint a one way picture. Again, phone records show Zimmerman went after Tray, if you go after someone that means you are the predator, how the fuck can Zimmerman use self defense when he ran towards and made the dam problem? Only one that could use self defense is Trayvon, there's phone records to his girl that they can hear and Zimmerman himself getting out of his SUV and following him and knocking on a neighbors door.

The SUV was outside of that walking lane from where Trayvon was found dead, 100's of feet away from the SUV as I showed the Map. How the fuck did they end up inside and around that bend into a scuffle when the SUV was parked out of that? Because Trayvon ran as phone records show and Zimmerman ran after him as records show, he can't use self defense!!! That's why the DA gave him 2nd murder!!



From the link you provided but the quote you chose not to paste into your post:

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.
“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin (http://www.wftv.com/s/news/trayvonmartin/),” Sheaffer said.
The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.
But Sheaffer said there could be another explanation for Martin's knuckle injury.
“It could be consistent with Trayvon either trying to get away or defend himself,” Sheaffer said.

In other words, people are still 're-constructing' the events on the basis of a drip-drip of edited comments so that the whole truth is not known. I understand the frustration and drive going on, but every time I read this thread I find the same 'facts' have more than one meaning.

[trish]

If you're armed and you go stalking someone against the wishes of the police and it goes sour, it's on you. I don't care if the kid was cowering in a corner or if he was beating you to a pulp with his bare seventeen year old untrained fists. You shoot and kill an unarmed kid under those circumstances it's manslaughter at the very least. Nevertheless my guess is Zimmerman walks (Florida is not a place where you can count on justice prevailing...indeed you can safely bet against it), but at least Zimmerman has to face a judge and a jury.

[jamesedwards]

That would be fucked up if he walks. that will put in others heads "HEY I CAN USE SYG LAW AND GET OFF LIKE ZIMMERMAN" That shit is crazy and whenever a case comes up like that they will use Zimmerman's case as a site case. I am hoping he goes to jail. Because he would probably end up killing someone again


If you're armed and you go stalking someone against the wishes of the police and it goes sour, it's on you. I don't care if the kid was cowering in a corner or if he was beating you to a pulp with his bare seventeen year old untrained fists. You shoot and kill an unarmed kid under those circumstances it's manslaughter at the very least. Nevertheless my guess is Zimmerman walks (Florida is not a place where you can count on justice prevailing...indeed you can safely bet against it), but at least Zimmerman has to face a judge and a jury.

[AmyDaly]

Riddle me this because I am baffled by your statement. Why did Zimmerman go after Tray when he was told not to engage the Teen? If Zimmerman would not have gone after Tray because it's evident that Tray ran away Zimmerman said that himself on the phone call he made to 911. Didn't Zimmerman have a chance now to not proceed? Fleeing is not an option you say but dam I am confused didn't Zimmerman by the evidence put himself in that predicament? If I was Tray I would of kicked his ass too, you don't follow me and ask me WHAT AM I DOING HERE? WTF type of approach is that? Zimmerman is a liar Tray didn't reach for his gun. He used that as an excuse.
You are getting very emotional about this, which is exactly what leads to people looking over the facts here. I will reply anyways even though it won't make any difference.

1) "Why did Zimmerman go after Tray when he was told not to engage the Teen?"

-There is no evidence that zimmerman "went after" the 6 foot 1 tall 17 year old man. He observed him and reported him to the police, which I don't see anything wrong with. He was never told not to do anything by anybody. If you listen to the 911 call, the operator tells him
"we don't need you to do that". No orders are given. Even though, Zimmerman says "ok". After that, you hear him saying "wheres my car" and you don't hear any chasing going on.


2)"If Zimmerman would not have gone after Tray because it's evident that Tray ran away Zimmerman said that himself on the phone call he made to 911. Didn't Zimmerman have a chance now to not proceed?"

-Yes, he did say that trayvon ran away. Then he asked the 911 operator if he should follow him. That is when she said "We dont need you to". Then he says ok. and like I said before, you hear him saying "wheres my car" after that as well.

3)"Fleeing is not an option you say but dam I am confused didn't Zimmerman by the evidence put himself in that predicament? If I was Tray I would of kicked his ass too, you don't follow me and ask me WHAT AM I DOING HERE?"

-I don't think he planned on trayvon turning around and coming back at him and starting a fight with him on his way to his car. Your mindset is exactly what got him killed. There is nothing wrong with reporting suspicious activity to the police. We are encouraged to do it all the time. I've done it and I am guessing if i did it to someone who didn't want me calling the cops on them, they might try and fight me as well. That doesn't make me the bad person.

4)"Zimmerman is a liar Tray didn't reach for his gun. He used that as an excuse. "

-Well, it seems like there is evidence to back up almost everything else he has said. Even if trayvon didn't reach for his gun, there is still evidence that he started the fight and sustained not a single injury other than his gun shot wound and the wounds to his hands that he sustained after punching zimmerman. I am guessing you think all the evidence is fake though as well.

[AmyDaly]

Because Trayvon ran as phone records show and Zimmerman ran after him as records show

I didn't know that. Can you post a link where I can see this?

[zulusierra]

Both their faults? Nah don't agree.
Why I don't agree with you? ...
The blame is only on one person here and that's ZIMMERMAN!!!

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss300/zulusierra/HeMadLando.jpg

I don't think you comprehend what I was saying.

That's ok. :cool:

[Stavros]

I don't know if the full honest truth about the event that night will ever be established, if only because Zimmerman has so many enemies; if he walks, the outrage will continue, the debates about the 'facts' will persist with the monotony of Dallas 1963.

But maybe the core problem is that people have seen so many episodes of some cop show where the investigating police examine a crime scene and interview witnesses and suspects, that they forget that in real life -and it seems to happen in the UK as well as the US- in real life cases the police often fail to live up to expectations; they can't get the basics right on the night, so what hope is there of justice? Witnesses are not interviewed, photos are not taken, crime scenes are washed down, specimens arrive in the lab a week or two weeks after the event, and so on and so on.

Yet for justice to be done, the police are the first professionals who get involved; a court will be presented with the evidence they collect and the jury can only make a decision on that evidence. In so many cases crap lawyers, evidence that isn't submitted to court, and sloppy police work can convict innocent people, and let the guilty go free.

Yesterday in the UK a man was released from prison for a murder he could not have committed because he was somewhere else at the time, his rock solid alibi was never presented to court. Theoretically, had there been capital punishment here, he could have gone to the gallows. In Texas, as the NYT reported a few days ago, an innocent man was executed -he bore such a strong resemblance to the man who did commit the murder that they were called twins: but where was the dna evidence that separated one from the other? On such basic pieces of evidence that never gets missed in CSI or LA Law or NYPD Blue rest not just lives, but our faith in the concept of justice as something that is real and fair. This isn't TV, its real life. If it happened once or twice, fair enough, even cops can make mistakes. But I have been reading about sloppy police work for years, and it makes me wonder if its institutional incompetence, bored policeman investigating yet another shooting, or if the 'profile' of the people involved determines the outcome....

[jamesedwards]

OH so now I don't comprehend what you were saying or said? Ok, got it!!! :dancing:




I don't think you comprehend what I was saying.

That's ok. :cool:

[jamesedwards]

For me I wish Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of that car Trayvon may have been still alive.

I have many clippings of men that did over 15 years WRONGLY in prison, and have to get paid millions of dollars now because of what happened. It's crazy!!! DNA is getting them off. So in the US a lot of people shouldn't be behind bars.

Lawyers and this system lie also not all the time the truth prevails.

Cops lie, and steal and cheat too, I have first hand experience with them.





Yesterday in the UK a man was released from prison for a murder he could not have committed because he was somewhere else at the time, his rock solid alibi was never presented to court. Theoretically, had there been capital punishment here, he could have gone to the gallows. In Texas, as the NYT reported a few days ago, an innocent man was executed -he bore such a strong resemblance to the man who did commit the murder that they were called twins: but where was the dna evidence that separated one from the other? On such basic pieces of evidence that never gets missed in CSI or LA Law or NYPD Blue rest not just lives, but our faith in the concept of justice as something that is real and fair. This isn't TV, its real life. If it happened once or twice, fair enough, even cops can make mistakes. But I have been reading about sloppy police work for years, and it makes me wonder if its institutional incompetence, bored policeman investigating yet another shooting, or if the 'profile' of the people involved determines the outcome....

[robertlouis]

This is the Guardian article that Stavros may have been referring to. We have miscarriages of justice in the UK too. The difference is that if they are subsequently proven innocent we can release them into society. In Carlos LaLuna's case it was too late - he had already been judicially murdered by the state of Texas. It's well worth reading if you've never once paused to consider whether life imprisonment is preferable to the death penalty.

The wrong Carlos: how Texas sent an innocent man to his death

A few years ago, Antonin Scalia, one of the nine justices on the US supreme court, made a bold statement. There has not been, he said, "a single case – not one – in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit. If such an event had occurred … the innocent's name would be shouted from the rooftops."

Scalia may have to eat his words. It is now clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit, and his name – Carlos DeLuna – is being shouted from the rooftops of the Columbia Human Rights Law Review. The august journal has cleared its entire spring edition, doubling its normal size to 436 pages, to carry an extraordinary investigation by a Columbia law school professor and his students.

The book sets out in precise and shocking detail how an innocent man was sent to his death on 8 December 1989, courtesy of the state of Texas. Los Tocayos Carlos: An Anatomy of a Wrongful Execution, is based on six years of intensive detective work by Professor James Liebman and 12 students.

Starting in 2004, they meticulously chased down every possible lead in the case, interviewing more than 100 witnesses, perusing about 900 pieces of source material and poring over crime scene photographs and legal documents that, when stacked, stand over 10ft high.

What they discovered stunned even Liebman, who, as an expert in America's use of capital punishment, was well versed in its flaws. "It was a house of cards. We found that everything that could go wrong did go wrong," he says.

Carlos DeLuna was arrested, aged 20, on 4 February 1983 for the brutal murder of a young woman, Wanda Lopez. She had been stabbed once through the left breast with an 8in lock-blade buck knife which had cut an artery causing her to bleed to death.

From the moment of his arrest until the day of his death by lethal injection six years later, DeLuna consistently protested he was innocent. He went further – he said that though he hadn't committed the murder, he knew who had. He even named the culprit: a notoriously violent criminal called Carlos Hernandez.
Carlos DeLuna: crime scene Police detective Escobedo, who headed the investigation, standing on evidence at the crime scene. Within two hours, the Shamrock had been cleaned up. Photograph: Corpus Christi police department

The two Carloses were not just namesakes – or tocayos in Spanish, as referenced in the title of the Columbia book. They were the same height and weight, and looked so alike that they were sometimes mistaken for twins. When Carlos Hernandez's lawyer saw pictures of the two men, he confused one for the other, as did DeLuna's sister Rose.

At his 1983 trial, Carlos DeLuna told the jury that on the day of the murder he'd run into Hernandez, who he'd known for the previous five years. The two men, who both lived in the southern Texas town of Corpus Christi, stopped off at a bar. Hernandez went over to a gas station, the Shamrock, to buy something, and when he didn't return DeLuna went over to see what was going on.

DeLuna told the jury that he saw Hernandez inside the Shamrock wrestling with a woman behind the counter. DeLuna said he was afraid and started to run. He had his own police record for sexual assault – though he had never been known to possess or use a weapon – and he feared getting into trouble again.

"I just kept running because I was scared, you know." When he heard the sirens of police cars screeching towards the gas station he panicked and hid under a pick-up truck where, 40 minutes after the killing, he was arrested.

At the trial, DeLuna's defence team told the jury that Carlos Hernandez, not DeLuna, was the murderer. But the prosecutors ridiculed that suggestion. They told the jury that police had looked for a "Carlos Hernandez" after his name had been passed to them by DeLuna's lawyers, without success. They had concluded that Hernandez was a fabrication, a "phantom" who simply did not exist. The chief prosecutor said in summing up that Hernandez was a "figment of DeLuna's imagination".

Four years after DeLuna was executed, Liebman decided to look into the DeLuna case as part of a project he was undertaking into the fallibility of the death penalty. He asked a private investigator to spend one day – just one day – looking for signs of the elusive Carlos Hernandez.

By the end of that single day the investigator had uncovered evidence that had eluded scores of Texan police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers and judges over the six years between DeLuna's arrest and execution. Carlos Hernandez did indeed exist.

Liebman's investigator tracked down within a few hours a woman who was related to both the Carloses. She supplied Hernandez's date of birth, which in turn allowed the unlocking of Hernandez's criminal past as the case rapidly unravelled.

With the help of his students, Liebman began to piece together a profile of Hernandez. He was an alcoholic with a history of violence, who was always in the company of his trusted companion: a lock-blade buck knife.

Over the years he was arrested 39 times, 13 of them for carrying a knife, and spent his entire adult life on parole. Yet he was almost never put in prison for his crimes – a disparity that Liebman believes was because he was used as a police informant. "Its hard to understand what happened without that piece of the puzzle," Liebman says.

Several of the crimes that Hernandez committed involved hold-ups of Corpus Christi gas stations. Just a few days before the Shamrock murder he was found cowering outside a nearby 7-Eleven wielding a knife – a detail never disclosed to DeLuna's defence.

He also had a history of violence towards women. He was twice arrested on suspicion of the 1979 murder of a woman called Dahlia Sauceda, who was stabbed and then had an "X" carved into her back. The first arrest was made four years before DeLuna's trial and the second while DeLuna was on death row, yet the connection between this Hernandez and the "phantom" presented to DeLuna's jury was never made.

In October 1989, just two months before DeLuna was executed, Hernandez was setenced to 10 years' imprisonment for attempting to kill with a knife another woman called Dina Ybanez. Even then, no one thought to alert the courts or Texas state as it prepared to put DeLuna to death.

Hernandez himself frequently told people that he was a knife murderer. He made numerous confessions to having killed Wanda Lopez, the crime for which DeLuna was executed, joking with friends and relatives that his "tocayo" had taken the fall. His admissions were so widely broadcast that even Corpus Christi police detectives came to hear about them within weeks of the incident at the Shamrock gas station.

Yet this was the same Carlos Hernandez who prosecutors told the jury did not exist. This was the figment of Carlos DeLuna's imagination.
Carlos DeLuna mugshot Carlos DeLuna: Photograph: Corpus Christi police department

Many other glaring discrepancies also stand out in the DeLuna case. He was put on death row largely on the eyewitness testimony of one man, Kevan Baker, who had seen the fight inside the Shamrock and watched the attacker flee the scene.

Yet when Baker was interviewed 20 years later, he said that he hadn't been that sure about the identification as he had trouble telling one Hispanic person apart from another.

Then there was the crime-scene investigation. Detectives failed to carry out or bungled basic forensic procedures that might have revealed information about the killer. No blood samples were collected and tested for the culprit's blood type.

Fingerprinting was so badly handled that no useable fingerprints were taken. None of the items found on the floor of the Shamrock – a cigarette stub, chewing gum, a button, comb and beer cans – were forensically examined for saliva or blood.

There was no scraping of the victim's fingernails for traces of the attacker's skin. When Liebman and his students studied digitally enhanced copies of crime scene photographs, they were amazed to find the footprint from a man's shoe imprinted in a pool of Lopez's blood on the floor – yet no effort was made to measure it.

"There it was," says Liebman. "The murderer had left his calling card at the scene, but it was never used."

Even the murder weapon, the knife, was not properly examined, though it was covered in blood and flesh.

Other photographs show Lopez's blood splattered up to three feet high on the walls of the Shamrock counter. Yet when DeLuna's clothes and shoes were tested for traces of blood, not a single microscopic drop was found. The prosecution said it must have been washed away by the rain.

There appeared to have been an unseemly scramble to wrap up the crime scene. Less than two hours after the murder happened, the police chief in charge of the homicide investigation ordered all detectives to quit the Shamrock and allowed its owner to wash it down, sweeping away vital evidence that could have saved a man's life.

The exceptionally lax treatment of evidence continued even beyond the grave. When Liebman asked to see all the stored evidence in the case, so that he could subject it to the DNA testing that was not available to investigators in 1983, he was told that it had all disappeared.

Having lived and breathed this case for so many years, Liebman says the most shocking thing about it was its ordinariness. "This wasn't the trial of OJ Simpson. It was an obscure case, the kind that could involve anybody. Maybe those are the cases where miscarriages of justice happen, the routine everyday cases where nobody thinks enough about the victim, let alone the defendant."

The groundbreaking work that the Columbia law school has done comes at an important juncture for the death penalty in America. Connecticut last month became the fifth state in as many years to repeal the ultimate punishment and support for abolition is gathering steam.

In that context, Liebman hopes his exhaustive work will encourage Americans to think more deeply about what is done in their name. All the evidence the Columbia team has gathered on the DeLuna case has been placed on the internet with open public access.

"We've provided as complete a set of information as we can about a pretty average case, to let the public make its own judgment. I believe they will make the judgment that in this kind of case there's just too much risk."

As for the tocayos Carloses, Carlos Hernandez died of natural causes in a Texas prison in May 1999, having been jailed for assaulting a neighbour with a 9in knife.

Carlos DeLuna commented on his own ending in a television interview a couple of years before his execution. "Maybe one day the truth will come out," he said from behind reinforced glass. "I'm hoping it will. If I end up getting executed for this, I don't think it's right."

[zulusierra]

he had already been judicially murdered by the state of Texas.

Texas has a long, sad history of executing folks on flimsy cases.

A lot of Texans actually seem somewhat proud of the fact that they lead the US in state-sponsored death.

IDK, maybe an old English style "outlaw" classification on individuals would make more sense in some limited applications?:shrug

[robertlouis]

Texas has a long, sad history of executing folks on flimsy cases.

A lot of Texans actually seem somewhat proud of the fact that they lead the US in state-sponsored death.

IDK, maybe an old English style "outlaw" classification on individuals would make more sense in some limited applications?:shrug

You're missing my central point, with respect. If a state murders one innocent person by mistake or as the result of a flawed or deliberately framed investigation, it invalidates, imho, the entire notion of the death penalty.

Any society that just shrugs its shoulders if the innocent die unjustly deserves our contempt.

[jamesedwards]

Exactly!!!! that's the great point I saw. And the family should bankrupt the whole got dam state of Texas!!!


You're missing my central point, with respect. If a state murders one innocent person by mistake or as the result of a flawed or deliberately framed investigation, it invalidates, imho, the entire notion of the death penalty.

Any society that just shrugs its shoulders if the innocent die unjustly deserves our contempt.

[zulusierra]

You're missing my central point, with respect. If a state murders one innocent person by mistake or as the result of a flawed or deliberately framed investigation, it invalidates, imho, the entire notion of the death penalty.

Any society that just shrugs its shoulders if the innocent die unjustly deserves our contempt.

I am against all state sponsored killing of it's citizens. I do not see execution as a legitimate use of force by the government.

I'm not sure removing protection from an individual (as in labeling them a legal "outlaw") is the same, philosophically speaking.

I haven't given it a huge amount of thought, though. Just found it an interesting concept.

[jamesedwards]

Wowwwwww!!!

[robertlouis]

I am against all state sponsored killing of it's citizens. I do not see execution as a legitimate use of force by the government.

I'm not sure removing protection from an individual (as in labeling them a legal "outlaw") is the same, philosophically speaking.

I haven't given it a huge amount of thought, though. Just found it an interesting concept.

On that much we are entirely in agreement. Good man.

[giovanni_hotel]

That actually isn't true. He was asked to do it per statements of other residents of that community. I also don't see anything wrong with following and reporting suspicious activity. Especially since there was a huge string of break ins and robbery in the community. I've followed and reported drunk drivers before. They even tell us to report drunk drivers. There is no way to tell they are drunk other than suspicious driving actions. Am I a vigilante reporting drunk drivers? What if some drunk sees me reporting them and decides to hit me with their car? Guess its my fault for trying to do the right thing. S

ame thing goes with this. Some large kid you've ever seen before walking in the rain looking around at all the apartments. There is no evidence that says he chased him or initiated any contact. Only evidence that he was attacked. You can just as easily say trayvon turned around and approached zimmerman from behind, which is what is looking like what happened from all the actual evidence coming out.

I feel like you're being willfully ignorant Amy. All the circumstantial evidence shows that Zimmerman got out on foot and CHASED after Trayvon. Listen to the entirety of Zimmerman's 911 call, when he says, 'he's (Trayvon) is running!'. At this point Zimmerman gets out of car on foot and chases after this kid.

This wasn't a LARGE kid. He's a stick.
http://i.imgur.com/5k9hg.jpg


Here's a mock diagram of the entire confrontation. Show me where Trayvon had the opportunity or time to double back and ambush Zimmerman?? That's bullshit. Again, from the diagram notice for how long Zimmerman was following Trayvon per the cell phone conversation with Martin's gf before he runs and psycho Zimmerman CHASES AFTER HIM.
What normal human being allows themselves to be stalked, chased, then respond in a calm manner after dark when an out of breath stranger starts questioning you??

Again, flip the colors, and Trayvon is an unarmed white kid named Terry and George is a self appointed Black neighborhood watch captain packing a concealed 9 mm who chases after this white kid after following him for three blocks in his SUV, claims the unarmed white kid carrying iced tea and skittles attacked him and was killed in self defense.
Would you still be buying this bullshit story from Zimmerman then.

Some of you need to try a little harder to be 'objective', because I would STILL be saying that white kid was murdered in cold blood by a psycho with a gun.


http://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/zimmermanmap.png

[zulusierra]

Again, flip the colors, and Trayvon is an unarmed white kid named Terry and George is a self appointed Black neighborhood watch captain...this white kid ...white kid....


I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?

[Willie Escalade]

I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?
White Hispanic and Latino Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans)

[giovanni_hotel]

Whatever. I think most are either consciously or unconsciously identifying with Zimmerman's whiteness. There are White latinos, I'm talking race primarily.

Put it this way, I doubt Zimmerman sees himself as hispanic, but that's pure speculation on my part.
I doubt Jimenez Garcia with a heavy Spanish accent would be the cause celeb on Faux News and other right wing news media outlets.

Or maybe it's vogue now in our society to smoke unarmed Black male teens in cold blood because statistically, you know, he's going to be a criminal at some point in the near future.smdh

Maybe the right wing and gun nuts are more obsessed with the victim and the manner used to kill him, and less about the shooter.

[jamesedwards]

Exactly now I ask, how the hell did Trayvon and Zimmerman get from #3 to #5 as I have shown in my map also. Tray ran as Zimmerman said, and in order for Zimmerman to have shot Tray, Zimmerman had to go after him. Now Zimmerman claims he was attached on his left side from the back by Tray and Tray slammed his head on the concrete, that's a lie!!! How the hell they end up a 100 feet inside the complex? That doesn't add up, Zimmerman is lying. Zimmerman went after Tray, confronted Tray and as it was told Tray put on his hoodie to hide his identity as Zimmerman asked him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE". How the hell do you talk like that to someone? See Zimmerman was feeling real gilly because he had a gun and he wanted a reason what he didn't know was Trayvon was going to bust his ass fist to fist, that punk bitch Zimmerman shot him and it was Zimmerman's fault this shit went down. I don't understand why peeps don't see it for what it is.


I feel like you're being willfully ignorant Amy. All the circumstantial evidence shows that Zimmerman got out on foot and CHASED after Trayvon. Listen to the entirety of Zimmerman's 911 call, when he says, 'he's (Trayvon) is running!'. At this point Zimmerman gets out of car on foot and chases after this kid.

[jamesedwards]

WRong, The word Zimmerman is either Polish or German, it is not of the Hebrew Israelite people, later named Jews, there are no "J's" in Hebrew, I studied those Semitic languages and Hamitic Languages also. The Caucasians you see in Israel are not the real Hebrews, they are convert Jews, and the Hebrews are a bloodline so you really can't convert into a bloodline. What they have done as Kharzars is take on the culture, languages and traditions along with the holy book and called it now their own. Trust me I have studied this and know the word Zimmerman is not a Jewish name. You couldn't even make that in Hebrew!!! the name Israel is really Y'srael, and Jesus real name in Hebrew is Ye'shua and Aramaic Issa and Arabic Isa, there are no J letters in the Hebrew nor Aramaic alphabet!!! The "J" letter wasn't introduced into the English alphabet until 1565, did you know that?

Now Zimmerman's mother is Afro Peruvian, meaning she has strong roots from Africa, so Zimmerman has African blood in his veins and I don't use the term black, it's a misnomer, the darkest person on this planet is not even black, that term was giving to us by Caucasians of the United States to classify us on a status, how do I know? because I worked in the legal system for years, and just check out your job application of why they ask WHAT RACE YOU ARE! Certain class of people get better benefits than others, now you can volunteer to put if you are so called black. It's about status because in your interview you're going be seen by the interviewer anyway so what's the purpose of putting down "I'M SO CALLED BLACK"? As I said before STATUS CLASSIFICATION IDENTITY PROCESSING.

So Zimmerman is Part Caucasian-Spaniard (White Hispanic) and African descent, and his mother happen to speak Spanish because of the Caucasian Spaniards that had those slaves and raped a lot of African people. The reason he looks the way he does is because he is the product of a mixture. To say he is just Hispanic is just absurd!!!

Melanin has nothing to do with white or black, Melanin is a protection screen from the UV rays that is in AFricans who where the first on this planet.

The term white is an identity status made up by Caucasians in the 1900's, before Caucasians came here they were called Christians!!! I have not see a Caucasian person ever in my life complexion the color of white, I mean like white snow!!!

So now you have the basis of these labels, just like all these got dam confusing labels they have for TGirls, like Trasexual Lesbian, like wtf, Transexual ain't enough? I can't even keep up with all that shit.

IN fact the cranium of the Africa, Asian and Caucasian are different in forensics, it is not the same. Also Melanin plays a big part, with out Melanin Caucasians have what is called recessive genes, this is why their pigment is pale for the lack of Melanin. with the lack of Melanin the body changes drastically, Dr. Francis Cress Welsing knows of this as the Albino stage.

I know my shit I have studied all this for years!!! and still studying so yeah, it's all have to do with Melanin, Ancestry, and the body. Cultural conditions Caucasians are definitely different than the African descent people.


I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?

[Queens Guy]

Exactly now I ask, how the hell did Trayvon and Zimmerman get from #3 to #5 as I have shown in my map also. Tray ran as Zimmerman said, and in order for Zimmerman to have shot Tray, Zimmerman had to go after him. Now Zimmerman claims he was attached on his left side from the back by Tray and Tray slammed his head on the concrete, that's a lie!!! How the hell they end up a 100 feet inside the complex? That doesn't add up, Zimmerman is lying. Zimmerman went after Tray, confronted Tray and as it was told Tray put on his hoodie to hide his identity as Zimmerman asked him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE". How the hell do you talk like that to someone? See Zimmerman was feeling real gilly because he had a gun and he wanted a reason what he didn't know was Trayvon was going to bust his ass fist to fist, that punk bitch Zimmerman shot him and it was Zimmerman's fault this shit went down. I don't understand why peeps don't see it for what it is.

With respect, the part that's being left out is time. Not the fault of anybody here, since the media has done a horrible job of reporting. They have done a terrible job on the who-what-when-where-why. Especially on the 'when' part.

If one listens to the recorded calls, ZImmerman's call to 911 as well as all the calls from his neighbors, at least one of which includes the screaming/fighting and the shot, one gets a much better idea of the time involved. Trayvon's call with his gf was not recorded on audio. We know when it happened, but it wasn't recorded.

The partial truth is that Zimmerman did start running after Trayvon. The rest of that partial truth is that Zimmerman stopped running after him when the dispatcher said 'we don't need you to do that'. Listen to the entire call by Zimmerman. You can hear him out of breath when the 911 dispatcher asked if he was running after Trayvon, but you also hear he gets his breath back long before the end of the call. There is no reason to think he kept running after the dispatcher suggested/ordered him to stop.

Approximately 5 minutes passed between the time Zimmerman says he lost sight of Trayvon and the time of the shot. That's a lot of time. Trayvon's body was found only 70 yards/meters from his home. It makes Zimmerman's version of Trayvon backtracking on him very possible.

jamesedwards, if you listen to Zimmerman's call you can hear that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the phone with 911 for about 3 minutes after he lost sight of him. It wasn't the kind of 'hot pursuit' that some have tried to make it seem.

[jamesedwards]

How are you Queens Guy?

Ok, 1. you said Tray's girlfriend wasn't recorded? Not true, The Martin's personal attorney has a phone log. Not an audio because it's a cell phone, but once the chip is looked into by computer forensics you are able to pull up everything from that chip. So there is a recording, here's the Proof

http://youtu.be/ah1V8phm1gw <<<< Youtube video with the Girlfriends records.


With respect, the part that's being left out is time. Not the fault of anybody here, since the media has done a horrible job of reporting. They have done a terrible job on the who-what-when-where-why. Especially on the 'when' part.

If one listens to the recorded calls, ZImmerman's call to 911 as well as all the calls from his neighbors, at least one of which includes the screaming/fighting and the shot, one gets a much better idea of the time involved. Trayvon's call with his gf was not recorded on audio. We know when it happened, but it wasn't recorded.

The partial truth is that Zimmerman did start running after Trayvon. The rest of that partial truth is that Zimmerman stopped running after him when the dispatcher said 'we don't need you to do that'. Listen to the entire call by Zimmerman. You can hear him out of breath when the 911 dispatcher asked if he was running after Trayvon, but you also hear he gets his breath back long before the end of the call. There is no reason to think he kept running after the dispatcher suggested/ordered him to stop.

Approximately 5 minutes passed between the time Zimmerman says he lost sight of Trayvon and the time of the shot. That's a lot of time. Trayvon's body was found only 70 yards/meters from his home. It makes Zimmerman's version of Trayvon backtracking on him very possible.

jamesedwards, if you listen to Zimmerman's call you can hear that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the phone with 911 for about 3 minutes after he lost sight of him. It wasn't the kind of 'hot pursuit' that some have tried to make it seem.

[jamesedwards]

Queens Guy I have heard the tapes, over and over, I worked in the legal field for years, I know what's up, Zimmerman even knocked on someone's door when he went after Trayvon did you know that? Also there was a pop before the gunshot showing when Zimmerman and Trayvon got into the scuffle someone was standing outside at their door and when they started fighting the door slams then you hear the gun go off.

Now if you're telling me Trayvon doubled back, in my humble expression I can't buy that. Zimmerman got off the phone and he could of ran again, you wouldn't know and then caught up to Trayvon. Remember in order for Trayvon to double back to THE SUV AS ZIMMERMAN CLAIMS they would of ended up on the side walk outside of the short cut not where Tray was killed. Zimmerman said Trayvon came up behind him while he was at his SUV, that's the key, where was the Suv? On the street used to drive from the front gate of the complex, not the grassy area where Trayvon died.

If you tell me Tray was 70 yards from his house it makes no sense since he was scared to double back. I would take my chances getting home.

Now phone records show Tray was on the phone with his girlfriend, his girlfriend said Tray told her a man was following him, what should he do? That doesn't sound like a teen trying to double back he is trying to get away, she told him to walk he wanted to run, but Zimmerman had now caught up to him and she said she heard a man ask Tray "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE" Did you hear her give testimony?

http://youtu.be/3jhes6BlFf8 <<<<< Youtube.

So is anyone listening to her statements? The phone logs prove to be accurate!!! So is she not a credible witness? If this is so, how did Zimmerman end up close to Tray if he stopped and went back to his Suv? Don't sound like Zimmerman was at his SUV but Trayvon was CORNERED by Zimmerman. News reporter "911 SAID NOT TO FOLLOW TRAYVON MARTIN,-- 'HE DID ANYWAY'..." So in reality Zimmerman went after Trayvon.

[jamesedwards]

QueensGuy and remember, Zimmerman wanted so bad, he was compelled to catch someone, and I know you heard the tape, what did he say? "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY", he wanted to catch Trayvon, he was the predator not Trayvon.

[zulusierra]

The Caucasians you see in Israel are not the real Hebrews, they are convert Jews, and the Hebrews are a bloodline so you really can't convert into a bloodline.
The term white is an identity status made up by Caucasians in the 1900's, before Caucasians came here they were called Christians!!! I have not see a Caucasian person ever in my life complexion the color of white, I mean like white snow!!!


So if I convert to Judaism and move to Israel you wouldn't consider me a Jew?

The way my Genetics professor explained it to us, "race" isn't a biological or scientific term. It's political.

Now certain groups of peoples have more statistically frequent allele patterns. That not "race" though.

Not once while earning my Bachelors degree in Biology did race come up.

The only time race was brought up in the curriculum was in Philosophy (more specifically political phil and phil of law).

That's called a clue.

As the father of a mixed race son (his mother is black) all this obsession with race sometimes bums me out despite my best efforts not to let others ignorance effect my mood.

I have to admit that if I was a black American I might find it easy to be bitter and resentful towards whites too, though. Historically speaking, the U.S. government has had a policy of treating large groups of people as somewhat less than human.

[jamesedwards]

On the real, they need to make a new law where neighborhood watch people can not engage at all nor carry weapons of no kind, this shouldn't just be a rule, if it's a law they violate it they go to jail. Trayvon could be the first African descent person in the USA a law is made after. The Trayvon law. Hell they have one named after an animal (cat), the Buster law. This would solve a lot of future problems.

[natina]

Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed




WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn







you are welcome!







A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv




A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-m...#ixzz1un9xiwfv (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv)


Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1139826#post1139826) Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-show-accident (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-12/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-charged-jail-20120412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident)


Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1139875#post1139875)
A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-m...#ixzz1un9xiwfv (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv)


Here's a Mother's Day message from Sabrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, made in partnership with "Second Chance on Shoot First" -- an organization which combats laws, such as Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, that encourage nervous gun owners to shoot in haste and repent at leisure.
Watch the video AFTER THE JUMP (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#more), and pay a visit to Second Chance on Shoot First (http://secondchancecampaign.org/), which allows American visitors to see where their states stand on Stand Your Ground, and provides links to the appropriate state webpages so visitors can tell their governments how they feel about it.



http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-m...#ixzz1un9xiwfv (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv)

Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1139688#post1139688) ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite)





Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law


Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1139773#post1139773) Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zi...#ixzz1unjLoUue (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjLoUue)

George Zimmerman Arrested! Father A Judge; Above The Law

April 11th, 2012 Update:
George Zimmerman was arrested Wednesday on a charge of second degree murder in the death of 17 year old Trayvon Martin. According to his attorney, a warrant for his arrest was declared and he is now in the custody of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
The Murder could have been prevented: More expected actions

The public is demanding in addition to his arrest, more severe investigative and disciplinary actions into the obvious laxity and complicity in the Florida police department. The extreme delay it took in bringing a most glaring criminal charge elucidates a deficit in department conduct.
<B>Late March, the Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte had said (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/28/1078649/-Department-of-Justice-says-it-will-investigate-Sanford-Police-Dept-) that so many people complained at the city commission meeting about Sanford officers, the city asked the Department of Justice to step in.
“I am now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and investigated by an independent agency,” Bonaparte said.
</B>
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg (http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg)Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Stepped down temporarily earlier. Bonaparte stands behind in image

Police criminal negligence?

There were obvious lapses in judgement and execution of police protocol favorable to this judge’s son that in the first place allowed this dangerous criminal with past records of violence against police, carry a concealed weapon, hunt his neighbors- which the police were well aware of- culminating in his- Zimmermans murder of Trayvon. And more severe abnormalities in the department that allowed his release from custody after the crime, even though ‘unnecessary man slaughter’ had been written on his folder.
Further, the declaration of Trayvon ‘missing’ for three days while his family searched for him, when the police had his personal information as is seen in the image above, from the day of the murder, raises the instance of ‘aiding and abetting and concealing’ murder within the department.
March 27th, 2012; Updated March 29th {Video of Zimmerman arriving at police precinct}
George Zimmerman Arrested Thrice! Father A Judge; Above The Law

NewsRescue- That George Zimmerman is yet eluding justice defies all logic and sets dangerous precedence in the United States- that individuals of all races with prior arrests for dangerous activity including violently resisting arrest- beating up the arresting officer- can posses a concealed weapon, in civilian clothes, advance toward anyone they deem suspicious and shoot dead that individual if he is combative or resistant to their advance.
George Zimmerman’s white father, Judge Robert J. Zimmerman as quoted below, described George as a ‘Spanish speaking minority’, painting him as neither Jewish, nor white. Well, being Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) must then be a religion and not a heritage, and being white must only be matrilineal as paternal contributions must not reflect, in his fathers point of view.
George Zimmerman is as Hispanic as Obama is White, after all, Obama’s mom is white, just like George’s mom is from Cuba, while Obama’s dad is black, just as Zimmerman’s dad is White. Perhaps Judge Robert Zimmerman suggests we apply the ‘one-drop’ rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule).



<B>George Zimmerman clearly disobeyed police instructions before assassinating the teen. Here is exactly what the dispatcher said:
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
</B>
Zimmerman: Yah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
But as we now know, Zimmerman’s history of police disobedience is not new, what is odd is the Police, government and main stream media reaction to this clearly dangerous precedent.
One of the most factual analysis’ of the case thus far can be read below:
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/examiner-logo.jpg (http://www.examiner.com/)
Bill Schmalfeldt
<B>CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html)revealed a telling piece of information Friday that has been missed by many of the media outlets covering the slaying of 17-year old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch captain on Feb. 26.
“The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading,” his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. “Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.”
</B>
“George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends,” Robert Zimmerman wrote. “He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.” (Emphasis added.)
Might this explain why, when he was first taken to police headquarters on Feb. 26, the lead investigator wanted to bring charges against Zimmerman, saying he was unconvinced of the 28-year old’s description of events.
ABC News reports: (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3JPwI6vo_f)
(http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3JPwI6vo_f)<B>
The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239) recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256) be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
</B>
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
According to Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/27/453123/lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-and-charge-zimmerman/), Wolfinger has since removed himself from the case.
<B>Was Wolfinger doing a favor for a retired judge? The blog Hinterland Gazette (http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-murder-inflammatory-rhetoric-rev-jesse-jackson-threatens-focus-crucial-issues.html) believes that may be the case.
It should be noted that George Zimmerman may have received favorable treatment from the police because of his family. ‎According to court records, his father is retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert Zimmerman and his mother Gladys Zimmerman was a court clerk. Connections in the legal community run deep and go far.
</B>
Might this also explain the younger Zimmerman’s record that includes three “closed arrests”?
Related: NewsRescue-Zimmerman murder of US black teen Trayvon Martin in Florida finally gets attention (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-murder-of-us-black-teen-trayvon-martin-in-florida-finally-gets-attention/)


Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zi...#ixzz1unjhtRpa (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjhtRpa)




http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zi...#axzz1uni1jbe4 (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#axzz1uni1jbe4)


http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/zimmerman-arrest-examiner-618x462.jpg

[natina]

new evidence /witness zimmerman on top of trayvon martin

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn


prosecutor new evidence released in trayvon martin shooting death

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/15/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2





you are welcome!





A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv

[natina]

that makes it a fact!

its in evidence

Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1139826#post1139826) Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-show-accident (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-show-accident)

Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



I didn't know that. Can you post a link where I can see this?

[jamesedwards]

Again, Hebrew Israelites is a bloodline Zulu not a religion, the real Jew is the Falashas in Ethiopia and the ones that live on the out skirts in Israel who are Dark. Again you can't convert into a bloodline. Now if you convert you will be converting to the ways, the culture, the linguistics, dietary, purification, rituals etc. What I am saying is Judism is not really a religion, it's a bloodline. If you have no studies in this, you won't be able to understand, you will read what I say and see what I say but to really get it you may not, and you might.
Now my question to you is, if you so call convert to Judaism, why would you need to move to Israel? I mean you can visit there but to move doesn't make you a Jew. IN the USA we have been poorly taught history, especially African descent people, we were taught the Caucasian Eurocentric education and not our own, this is a fact, I know because I went to school, every thing is about George Washington who was a slave owner and a Mason of a secret society, Thomas Jeff and all these other people, but I'm not Caucasian, so.......

You get what I am saying?

BAMMMMMM YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD!!! You said:
"The way my Genetics professor explained it to us, "race" isn't a biological or scientific term. It's political."

Exactly that's what I said about the black and white terms it's about class and status which in turn is political. This is why these statuses are on job applications.

You must be in a different time then because when I did biology they went into the gene pool and all that and Melanin and Africa the people there etc. I feel nowadays they are dumbing down the youth more. You have access to more info yet the youth don't know nothing but XBox, Playstation and what's the next car Lil Wayne getting or who LeBron dunked on. Back in my day we didn't have access and we learned more. Biology taught us every complexion on earth comes from the African dark Melanin people, and the anatomy taught you about the body, that's where I learned that the aspects of Caucasians are totally different from that of an African person. Example, Africans have 9 ether hair, Caucasians have 6 ether hair, Africans have full noses and lips while Caucasians have thin ones. Africans eye color of the iris is mostly deep dark brown, Caucasians are green, grey, hazel, brown, light brown, and blue. Africans cranium is shaped different than the Caucasian and the nasal cavity also is different.

You said race bums you out, yet you keep using black this black that, etc. There are no black people on this earth we are not colors we are not a box of crayons, African descent people are not orange, blue, green, purple etc. We are complexions, from dark to light that's it. Colors are labels for THINGS we are not things we are human beings. So please never refer to me as a black man. If you do I will have to cut cha!!!
<::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx[]o LOL :dead:

ON a serious note, I don't use the term black, When Africans came here they were known as African slaves not black slaves, there is not such thing as a black American that sounds crazy when you analyze it. You what we do, European America throws out an idea we just sop it up without thinking and run with it. Our people went with Negro, colored, N***er, and all these terms. The people of Africa didn't call themselves black, the word doesn't exist in any of the Africans linguistics, also African people meanings and principles in their languages are totally different from Americas'.

OH and trust me I know they have treated African descent people less than human. They are still doing it. A lot of the young Caucasian people seem not to put up with what the US Govt has in their laws.



So if I convert to Judaism and move to Israel you wouldn't consider me a Jew?

The way my Genetics professor explained it to us, "race" isn't a biological or scientific term. It's political.

Now certain groups of peoples have more statistically frequent allele patterns. That not "race" though.

Not once while earning my Bachelors degree in Biology did race come up.

The only time race was brought up in the curriculum was in Philosophy (more specifically political phil and phil of law).

That's called a clue.

As the father of a mixed race son (his mother is black) all this obsession with race sometimes bums me out despite my best efforts not to let others ignorance effect my mood.

I have to admit that if I was a black American I might find it easy to be bitter and resentful towards whites too, though. Historically speaking, the U.S. government has had a policy of treating large groups of people as somewhat less than human.

[natina]

FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION
"Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a 9mm pistol and pursued travon martin WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/?gt1=43001

you have to play to the public just like the defense did to win an impression or imagine

the defense started with lots of propaganda


it war!

STAND YOUR GROUND LAW WON'T PROTECT ZIMMERMAN BUT HIS ATTORNEY WILL FILE A MOTON FOR IT ANY WHO

stand your ground law does not protect Zimmerman

Author and NRA member Dave Kopel says Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iid=article_sidebar#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/30/exp-point-kopel-one.cnn


Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
s on MySpace Page

A MySpace page has surfaced that shows Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Mexicans and boasted about escaping from legal problems.

While the page is dated from 2005 and has not been used for some time, lawyers on both sides say the social media page could become a factor in the case against Zimmerman, who is accused of shooting the unarmed African-American teenager in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

The page, titled, "only to be a king again," shows Zimmerman sounding off against Mexicans and celebrating his evasion of charges after a fight with a law enforcement officer.

In a possible reference to an alleged 2005 domestic violence incident, Zimmerman also uses a disparaging slang word for prostitute against his former girlfriend. Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family, says the page shows Zimmerman has a history of racial profiling.

WHAT A BROKEN NOSE LOOKS LIKE
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03...been-arrested/ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-been-arrested/)

Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman’s 2005 MySpace page “includes disparaging remarks about Mexicans.” (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/05/02/trayvon-martin-killer-george-zimmermans-2005-myspace-page-includes-disparaging-remarks-about-mexicans/)
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/george-zimmerman/ (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/george-zimmerman/)


According to the Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html), Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.
In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html




http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg

[jamesedwards]

These two women said Zimmerman was on top and they have been saying this from the beginning, also the woman with the short hair cut said the police didn't even want to take her statement, what's up with that? So all the witnesses don't agree on the same pocket as another witness named John said Trayvon was on top.

http://img1.imagehousing.com/49/c1d6776148743a62644a46984b125cf6.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1016745)


Why isn't any Zimmerman supporters talking about Tray's girlfriend and her statement, isn't hers valid too? That's the biggest key to this whole case!!! She was actually the last person to speak to Tray.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn <<< the two women.

[jamesedwards]

How in the world did Zimmerman get off on two points of assault on police, one a felony and a misdemeanor ? How does that work?




FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION
"Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a 9mm pistol and pursued travon martin WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/?gt1=43001

[jamesedwards]

DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM NATINA!!!!
If Zimmerman's father said this:
"George Zimmerman’s white father, Judge Robert J. Zimmerman as quoted below, described George as a ‘Spanish speaking minority’, painting him as neither Jewish, nor white. Well, being"

His father is basing his own son based on linguistics that he is JUST HISPANIC and not even part Caucasian. Wowwwww!!! Logically, biologically, scientifically, and genealogy, Zimmerman is mixed !!! He's not just Hispanic. That's a fact!!!

[natina]

trayvon martin was the one crying and screaming for help say two expert witnesses
Eyewitness Zimmerman Martin shooting Incident - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaknmTkjvU&feature=related)

race was an issue because african americans had been breaking in to vehicles or ?

zimmerman says" they always get away"



zimmerman arrest records /violent history

http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/zimmerman-arrest-examiner-618x462.jpg

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg

[natina]

race was an issue because african americans had been breaking in to vehicles or OTHER STUFF IN THAT COMPLEX ?

zimmerman says" they always get away"


Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

[jamesedwards]

Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47
Says Many Gang Members Were Coming After His Family
September 7, 2010 11:00 PM

He got arrested, yet he had a legal right to have it, didn't kill no one yet got arrested. SMDH!!!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/07/long-island-man-arrested-for-defending-home-with-ak-47/

[natina]

By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident (http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/03/17/trayvon_martin_911_calls_raise_uestions_about_whet her_george_zimmerman_acted_in_self_dfense.html?fro m=rss/&wpisrc=newsletter_slatest), now emerging from that evening leave very little question (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/19/trayvon-martins-murder-was-the-motive-self-defense-or-racism/) about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous, motivated by an obsessive desire to guard the perimeter of his community and pose as a crime-fighting hero to those around him. It doesn’t take much imagination to size up Zimmerman psychologically. He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells. He’s the kind of person who, if he weren’t playing at policeman, would be one of those guys fabricating stories of his war heroism, buying fake military uniforms and medals on eBay and telling strangers in bars how he single-handedly held off insurgents in Kandahar or some such shit. He’s one of those guys. If you’ve met one, you’ve met them all: a wannabe somebody with a gun permit and a healthy dose of amped up, testosterone-fueled anxiety about outsiders; and so too, in his case, it appears (not only from this incident but also from dozens of previous 9-1-1 calls he’d made), a consistent fear about black men, whom he seemed to consider, almost by definition, as not belonging in his neighborhood.
If Trayvon Martin had been, say, Todd Martin, a 17-year old white male, in the same neighborhood on the same evening, it wouldn’t have mattered that he was wearing a hoodie, looking at homes as he passed them by, or fiddling with his waistband. These, it should be noted, were the apparent indicators of criminality that Zimmerman felt compelled to share with the police during his 9-1-1 call, before opting to chase Martin himself, in brazen defiance of their explicit instruction to stay put. Had he been white, Martin’s humanity would have been clearly discernible to Zimmerman. But he was black, and male, and that alone inspired Zimmerman to conclude that there was “something wrong with this guy,” and that he appeared to be “on drugs,” a judgment Zimmerman felt qualified to render based on his extensive background in behavioral psychology, bested only by his prodigious law enforcement training, and by extensive and prodigious, in this case, I mean none whatsoever.
Indeed, if you do not know that Martin’s race (and more to the point, Zimmerman’s racism) is central to the former’s death at the hands of the latter, it may well be that you are incapable of ever comprehending even the most obvious manifestations of this nation’s longstanding racial drama. Worse still, it may suggest that you are so bereft of empathy as to render you morally and emotionally dangerous to decent people.
And by empathy here, I don’t mean merely the ability to feel for the family of this murdered child. I’m guessing most all can manage that much. Rather, I refer to the kind of empathy too rarely attainable, by whites in particular, in the case of black folks who insist, based on their entire life experience and the insight gained from that experience, that their rights to life and liberty are too often subject to the capricious whims of those with less melanin than they, and for reasons owing explicitly to the color of their skin.
Empathy — real empathy, not the situational and utterly phony kind that most any of us can muster when social convention calls for it — requires that one be able to place oneself in the shoes of another, and to consider the world as they must consider it. It requires that we be able to suspend our own culturally-ingrained disbelief long enough to explore the possibility that perhaps the world doesn’t work as we would have it, but rather as others have long insisted it did.
Empathy, which is always among the first casualties of racist thinking, mandates our acceptance of the possibility that maybe it isn’t those long targeted by oppression who are exaggerating the problem or making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill, but rather we who have underestimated the gravity of racial domination and subordination in this country, and reduced what are, in fact, Everest-sized peaks to ankle-high summits, and for our own purposes, rather than in the service of truth.
And please, let us have no more ignoble and dissembling rationalizations for Trayvon Martin’s death and Zimmerman’s killing of him. If you are one, like those firmly ensconced in the pathetic Sanford, Florida police department, trying against all logic and human feeling to square this pernicious circle, just stop it. That there had been a half-dozen or so break-ins in Zimmerman’s community, ostensibly orchestrated by black males matters not a whit. Likewise, that there was a string of robberies in my New Orleans neighborhood during my senior year of college, which were the handiwork of white men, would not have justified my being stopped by police every time I returned home from a late afternoon class, to say nothing of being accosted by some community asshole with a Charles Bronson complex. But of course, such an analogy is silly isn’t it? We all know that whites are never subjected to this kind of generalized suspicion, even when we do, indeed, fit the description of one or another bad guy on the loose. We are not all looked at sideways when yet another white male serial killer is at large, or yet another abortion clinic bomber. We don’t face police roadblocks in lily-white communities so as to catch drunk drivers, even though the data is quite clear that whites represent a disproportionate number and percentage of those driving under the influence.
As for Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense, that anyone could believe such a demonstrably transparent lie (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) as this is stunning. Or rather it isn’t. It makes perfect sense in a nation where blackness and danger have long been considered synonymous, such that any black male over the age of perhaps 10 can “reasonably” be assumed a predator whose designs on decent people and their property are so concretized as to warrant virtually any measure invoked to monitor, control and incapacitate them. However much has changed in the U.S. since the 1960s, or for that matter the 1860s, make note of it that at least this much has not: black folks are still, in the eyes of far too many whites, a problem to be addressed, a riddle to be solved. And deprived of the old mechanisms of social control to which we were once so wedded — formal segregation, regular lynchings, forced sterilization, even enslavement — we have opted for the development of new forms: racial profiling, gated communities into which we shall police entry, zoning laws that limit who can live among us, and mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses, among others.
Under what rational interpretation of self-defense could Zimmerman’s actions qualify? Zimmerman chased Martin down. Zimmerman tackled Martin after Martin demanded to know why Zimmerman was following him. Martin screamed for help. And Zimmerman shot him. Even if Martin fought back, how could such a thing — a quite reasonable response, it should be noted, to being attacked by a total stranger — justify pulling a gun, pulling the trigger and shooting the person who was acting in self-defense against you? To those who accept Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense, let us ask a simple question: would you be so willing to buy that argument if a black person were to chase down a white person in a mostly black neighborhood, and then upon catching him, end his life when the white person resisted being pummeled? You know full well the answer. We all do.
If I chase you and jump you, and you resist my assault, and in response to your resistance I kill you, I am the bad guy. Period. End of story. No exceptions, no prevarications, no ifs ands or buts. It’s me. Trayvon Martin is the innocent one here. He is the one who was acting in self-defense, when he resisted the assault of a total stranger, whose purposes for chasing him and accosting him made him rightfully afraid. After all, “neighborhood watch captains,” whether duly elected as such or just in their own heads (as seems to have been the case with Zimmerman), don’t wear official law enforcement uniforms, which might help identify them to the persons they may find themselves pursuing. And ya’ know why? Because despite their fervent and pre-adolescent desires to play cops and robbers like they used to do when they were eight years old, they are not cops. They are not even security guards. They are self-appointed enforcers with no authority whatsoever, save that which they have chosen to fabricate so as to make themselves feel more important.
Oh, and when you abuse that ill-gotten authority and take the life of a young black man in the process, you don’t get to be taken seriously when you swear that your actions couldn’t have been racist because, after all, you’re Latino (this being the latest fanciful insistence of Zimmerman’s family). Dear merciful Lord, what is that supposed to prove? Racism is not about the identity of the person acting it out so much as those upon whom it is acted, and for what purpose. There were black slave owners in the South, after all, and what of it? American slavery was a racist institution because it subordinated people based on racial identity, and was predicated on the notion of black inhumanity and white supremacy. That there were some black people who bought into both sets of lies does not acquit the institution of the charge of racism, nor those among the African American community who participated in it. So too, that there are persons of color who are just as anti-black in their thinking as many whites, pathetic and heartbreaking though it may be, means nothing and truthfully, should surprise no one.
It should be especially unsurprising that Zimmerman would have internalized racially-biased assumptions about black males, given the society in which he (and we) reside. And although this hardly lets him off the hook — one must be responsible for one’s own actions in any event, no matter the social contributors to those actions — it is worth noting a few things about the milieu in which this wannabe police officer was operating. In other words, Zimmerman’s culpability, while total and complete, is not solitary.
After all, we are a society in which research has shown quite conclusively that local newscasts overrepresent blacks as criminals, relative to their actual share of total crime, and overrepresent whites as victims, relative to our share of victimization.
A society in which other studies have shown that these racially-skewed newscasts have a direct relationship to widespread negative perceptions of black people. Indeed, a substantial percentage of anti-black racial hostility can be directly traced to media imagery, even after all other factors are considered.
A society in which the disproportionate incarceration of black males — especially for non-violent drug offenses, which they are no more likely (and often even less likely) than whites to commit — feeds the perception that they are so treated because they are dangerous and must be kept at bay.
A society in which criminality is so associated with blackness that whites literally and almost instantly connect the two things in survey after survey, and study after study, even though we are roughly 5 times as likely to be criminally victimized by another white person as by a black person.
A society in which anti-black racism has been so long ingrained that not only most whites, but also most Latinos and Asian Americans, demonstrate substantial subconscious bias against African Americans in study after study of implicit racial hostility (and even about a third of blacks themselves demonstrate anti-black racism).
George Zimmerman was very simply taught to fear black men by his society, and he learned his lessons well. And while he must be punished for his transgressions — and hopefully will be, now that the Justice Department is investigating and a Grand Jury is being convened — let there be no mistake, he cannot and should not take the fall alone for that which stems so directly from a larger social and cultural narrative to which he (and all of us) have been subjected.
Black males are, for far too many in America, a racial Rorschach test, onto which we instantaneously graft our own perceptions and assumptions, virtually none of them good. Look, a black man on your street! Quick, what do you see? A criminal. Look, a black man on the corner! Quick, what do you see? A drug dealer. Look, a black man in a suit, in a corporate office! Quick, what do you see? An affirmative action case who probably got the job over a more qualified white man. And if you don’t believe that this is what we do — what you do — then ask yourself why 95 percent of whites, when asked to envision a drug user, admit to picturing a black person, even though blacks are only 13 percent of users, compared to about 70 percent who are white? Ask yourself why whites who are hooked up to brain scan monitors and then shown subliminal images of black men — too quickly for the conscious mind to even process what it saw — show a dramatic surge of activity in that part of the brain that reacts to fear and anxiety? Ask yourself why whites continue to believe that we are the most discriminated against group in America — and that folks of color are “taking our jobs” — even as we remain roughly half as likely to be out of work and a third as likely to be poor as those persons of color. Even when only comparing persons with college degrees, black unemployment is about double the white rate, Latino unemployment about 50 percent higher, and Asian American unemployment about a third higher than their white counterparts.
George Zimmerman must be held accountable for his actions, and hopefully he will be. Innocent until proven guilty of course, there is a process for determining matters of formal legal responsibility, and may that process now move forward to a just conclusion. But beyond the matter of legal guilt or innocence, beyond that which can be addressed in a court of law — one way or the other — there is a bigger issue here, and it is one that cannot be resolved by a jury, be it Grand or otherwise, nor by judges or prosecutors. It is the none-too-minor matter of the monster we as a nation have created, not only apparently in the heart of George Zimmerman, but in the minds of millions: individuals far too quick to rationalize any injustice so long as the victim has a black face; persons for whom no act of racially-biased misconduct qualifies as racist; persons who have allowed their own fears, anxieties and occasionally even hatreds to numb them, to inure them to the pain and suffering of the so-called other.
Yesterday, I received an e-mail from someone suggesting that perhaps we should begin to sport buttons like those that became so ubiquitous in the case of Troy Davis last year. You know the buttons, right? The ones that said: “I am Troy Davis.” The ones that aimed at solidarity with an unjustly executed man, but which, on the lapels and t-shirts of white people seemed, to me at least, more banal and offensive than anything else, since we were not, in fact (and would not likely ever be) in the position of Troy Davis. And while in this case too, I understand the sentiment and appreciate the real compassion underlying the suggestion — or the no-doubt-soon-to-be-witnessed insertion of Trayvon Martin’s name in many a Facebook profile handle — I feel that perhaps we who are white should remind ourselves, before we jump on either bandwagon, that unfortunately, we are much less like Trayvon Martin and much more like George Zimmerman.
And that is the problem.
For sources pertinent to the various data and study claims made in this piece, please see Tim Wise’s 2010 book, Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity. To join the call for a serious Justice Department investigation into the killing of Trayvon Martin, please sign this petition (http://act.colorofchange.org/sign/Trayvon/?source=coc_website) at ColorOfChange.org

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

[InHouston]

The courts will decide what is evidence and not you. It was recently released that Zimmerman had various injuries indicating he was getting beaten, and Treyvon's knuckle's are scraped up to validate that.

[InHouston]

If you're armed and you go stalking someone against the wishes of the police and it goes sour, it's on you. I don't care if the kid was cowering in a corner or if he was beating you to a pulp with his bare seventeen year old untrained fists. You shoot and kill an unarmed kid under those circumstances it's manslaughter at the very least. Nevertheless my guess is Zimmerman walks (Florida is not a place where you can count on justice prevailing...indeed you can safely bet against it), but at least Zimmerman has to face a judge and a jury.

That's your opinion, but not the law. Zimmerman will walk. And in fairness to Treyvon he had every right to kill Zimmermanin self-defense as well, and Treyvon would have walked scott-free on the same law, and none of you people would be bitching about it. Unfortunately, Treyvon jumped on Zimmerman and started beating him and poor little Treyvon lost the fight. Tough fucking shit. His mother should teach him to respect his community and elders and don't go jumping on people when neighbors are nervous in a crime-ridden community.

This turned into a mutual-combat situation, and it's up for grabs at that point.

Out here in Texas if I'm walking around my neighborhood, and someone confronts me and asked what I'm doing around their houses, I'm not going to jump on them and start beating on them. I'd end up getting shot.

Tis tis. Treyvon's problem.

[trish]

The courts will decide what is evidence and not you. It was recently released that Zimmerman had various injuries indicating he was getting beaten, and Treyvon's knuckle's are scraped up to validate that.

We already discussed that and the medical report is inconclusive as to whether Travon's wounds are defensive or not. Don't keep repeating shit that been shown to be bunkum. If you can't keep up stay out of the discussion.

[trish]

Sorry, the penalty for disrespect isn't death. Zimmerman's action proves he deserves no respect. Now how about answering my other points made in post #997?
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1141786&postcount=997

[giovanni_hotel]

Just a thought......

How can you be getting your ass kicked with another man on top of you and still have the ability to unholster your gun, take the safety off and pull the trigger??
Most people on the bottom of a fight are either using their arms and hands to defend themselves or fight back.

Unless Zimmerman has another arm, his story doesn't make sense to me.

IMO I think Trayvon and George were fighting and at some point Trayvon got off of him, whether voluntarily or forced off by Zimmerman.

When they were briefly separated is when IMO Zimmerman pulled out his gun. At this point is when I believe Zimmerman made a decision he didn't have to make. I seriously doubt Trayvon rushed Zimmerman with a gun in his hand and was shot as a result.

I think George outright executed Trayvon AFTER the fight was over.

[trish]

That's your opinion, ...
Out here in Texas if I'm walking around my neighborhood, and someone confronts me and asked what I'm doing around their houses, I'm not going to jump on them and start beating on them. I'd end up getting shot.

Tis tis. Treyvon's problem.
Not only my opinion, but the opinion of everyone who knows right from wrong.
And no, if you can't defend yourself without firearm, then that's your problem and a problem for every Texan. What a fucked up state!

[jamesedwards]

Not only my opinion, but the opinion of everyone who knows right from wrong.
And no, if you can't defend yourself without firearm, then that's your problem and a problem for every Texan. What a fucked up state!

:werd::werd::werd:

[zulusierra]

And no, if you can't defend yourself without firearm, then that's your problem and a problem for every Texan.

People with physical disabilities?

95lb women?

Elderly?

When you're outnumbered?

You may a superhuman badass; if so, rock on!

As a grown man, I'm not gonna duke it out with another grown man over some bullshit. I'm gonna try to walk away from the situation if possible. If it's not an option, I'm taking it to the NEXT LEVEL.

The moral of the story is, you never know who yer fuckin' wit.

Misread a situation with the wrong person and you just might get checked. Hard.

http://i.imgur.com/wC6N1.gif

[trish]

Don't be a pedantic idiot. Stick to the real argument. The "you" refers the generally able bodied, such as your Mr. Zimmerman. If you got yourself involved in a scrap and are getting the worst of it, pulling a knife, a gun or any other weapon and using it to KILL your UNARMED opponent is wrong. If the people of Texas feel they generally need to carry firearms to defend themselves (even in gated communities no less), that's a problem. The firearms are not the solution, they're symptomatic of (and part of) the problem.

[jamesedwards]

That's true I agree.

You know how I roll these days? Go straight to work, don't talk to people I don't know, and go straight home. I don't do clubs none of that crap, it's like I have to strategize how I go out, and that shouldn't have to happen. With cops killing people at will they are the main concern, not even thugs, I worry about running into cops, they are a hot mess killing people and especially African descent people. This is a fact not my opinion. I have a tape where a Caucasian raised an object at an officer, did he shoot her? Nope he was Caucasian also, then she fled and took the cop car LOL :dead: Now if that would of been an African descent person DEAD DEAD DEAD!!! Look at all the African descent people shot by cops and didn't have any weapons. Yet if we have a wallet we are shot dead, this woman pulled out and pointed it towards the cop and he actually had the right to shoot, but he didn't.


People with physical disabilities?

95lb women?

Elderly?

When you're outnumbered?

You may a superhuman badass; if so, rock on!

As a grown man, I'm not gonna duke it out with another grown man over some bullshit. I'm gonna try to walk away from the situation if possible. If it's not an option, I'm taking it to the NEXT LEVEL.

The moral of the story is, you never know who yer fuckin' wit.

Misread a situation with the wrong person and you just might get checked. Hard.

http://i.imgur.com/wC6N1.gif

[maddygirl]

I can't understand why some of you keep bringing up the black/white race argument. Zimmerman isn't white, and doesn't even look white. Even though he very well may have committed this crime, believe it or not.. not every crime involving people of different races was racially motivated.

[zulusierra]

Stick to the real argument. The "you" refers the generally able bodied, such as your Mr. Zimmerman. If you got yourself involved in a scrap and are getting the worst of it, pulling a knife, a gun or any other weapon and using it to KILL your UNARMED opponent is wrong.

I agree that Zimmerman was an idiot. I just happen to think Trayvon was too.

Here's my wild speculation...

Zimmerman: Probably approached Trayvon in a disrespectful manner. Decided he wanted to play Law Enforcement without the training. Did not have the emotional/mental maturity to carry a deadly weapon outside of his personal residence.

Trayvon: Walking in the rain. Rudely confronted for being in a gated community that he stuck like a sore thumb in. After being approached in what he sees as a disrespectful manner, decides to throw some shade. He's probably thinking something along the lines of "fuck this punk-ass white boy" and decides to get froggy.

Next?
Neither of them has the common sense to walk away and leave it alone.

I don't think it's right. It's life. Just to flip it, here's a thought experiment:

White guy walking through southwest Atlanta (SWATS) in an area he obviously doesn't live. Someone confronts/approaches/otherwise directs comments toward him in a disrespectful manner. Should our hypothetical white boy stay quiet and keep it movin', or engage in a dick-measuring contest? If he decides to smart off to the residents of the community what do you think the most likely outcomes include?

I think Trayvon made a fatal error thinking that just because he was in a nice gated community that some white boy wouldn't check him for being out of bounds. I'm not saying it's right.

The U.S. is changing. People are fed up. Sadly, I don't see the situation getting better anytime soon.

[maddygirl]

I still don't think it's right that Zimmerman killed him. Just because you get in a fight with someone doesn't give you the right to kill them! Imagine if EVERY fight that went down ended in one person dying and the other person claiming they only used the "Stand your Ground Law?" This law in Florida apparently ALLOWS you to kill someone if they start physically fighting you. I'm sorry but I think this is lunacy... ever heard of... PEPPERSPRAY?

[Stavros]

Here's my wild speculation...
Trayvon: Walking in the rain. Rudely confronted for being in a gated community that he stuck like a sore thumb in. .

Speculation, again, can lead to all sorts of conclusions, in this case I am puzzled by yours because the sub-prime crisis and the foreclosures on property that happened, meant that 'even in' gated communities like the one in Sanford, many of the original tenants had moved out, and new ones moved in -I dont know if the Martin family's friends were new occupants, but I wonder how familiar Zimmerman was with the people who lived there, because in fact Trayvon would not have 'stuck out like a sore thumb'. One wonders what is the point of being in a Neighbourhood Watch if you dont know the neighbours...and anyway if it was the UK the whole place would have been covered by cc cameras, alebit that the incident took place in the dark mostly.

[buttslinger]

He's probably thinking something along the lines of "fuck this punk-ass white boy" and decides to get froggy.

Then why was he yelling "help help?"

This just in: Tray had THC in his system.

[jamesedwards]

I can't understand why some of you keep bringing up the black/white race argument. Zimmerman isn't white, and doesn't even look white. Even though he very well may have committed this crime, believe it or not.. not every crime involving people of different races was racially motivated.

First off you're wrong, he's Part Caucasian, Afro Peruvian (African genealogy), and he speaks Spanish because that's what the Caucasian Spaniards when colonizing gave Africans. There are also Caucasian Spaniards, there's no real such thing as white people, I can get the pure color white and match any Caucasian to it then I will acknowledge so called THE WHITE IDENTITY STATUS CLASSIFICATION!!!

So basically with his back ground he is Caucasian and African mixed. Not just Latino, stop the madness.

[zulusierra]

there's no real such thing as white people, I can get the pure color white and match any Caucasian to it

This applies to me.:werd:

I'm actually pinkish-beige depending on how much time I spend outdoors.:wiggle:

[zulusierra]

This just in: Tray had THC in his system.

And?

[trish]

Plants use THC as a defense against herbivores. Obviously Tray was attempting to fend off a huge stupid beast.

[jamesedwards]

This applies to me.:werd:

I'm actually pinkish-beige depending on how much time I spend outdoors.:wiggle:


:dead: Yes, I am looking at the collar on your shirt now that's white, you're not that complexion. lol I don't call people colors because we are not fucking crayons in a box we are different shades and complexions. Yes you have a pink reddish hue, that's due to the blood cycles closer to your epidermis, but not all Caucasians are you complexion, some are pale like Bailey Jay for instants.

But the only time you can become white is if you let Paris Pirelli shoot her milky white cum all over your face!!! Then I will call you a white man lol lmao :dancing::dancing::dancing:

But you're a cool guy though. :dancing:

[jamesedwards]

Plants use THC as a defense against herbivores. Obviously Tray was attempting to fend off a huge stupid beast.


:dead::dead::dead:

[onmyknees]

Not only my opinion, but the opinion of everyone who knows right from wrong.
And no, if you can't defend yourself without firearm, then that's your problem and a problem for every Texan. What a fucked up state!

LMAO....Now it's Texas? Last week North Carolina, and before that West Virginia and Florida. Think maybe it's you and your views? Of course not little miss can't be wrong. :loser:

[Queens Guy]

He's probably thinking something along the lines of "fuck this punk-ass white boy" and decides to get froggy.

Then why was he yelling "help help?"

This just in: Tray had THC in his system.

As far as calling for help goes, ABC reported that the FBI analyzed the tape and were unable to determine whose voice it was.

For those of us interested in the case, there was a big 'document dump' today. A release of lots of evidence. Pictures, autopsy results, audio versions of interviews, etc. Seems like we'll know a lot more about the case, and have a lot less speculating to do. Which is good.

[jamesedwards]

As far as calling for help goes, ABC reported that the FBI analyzed the tape and were unable to determine whose voice it was.
.

So you mean to tell me FBI couldn't use voice recognition? They use that all the time. Being Trayvon is dead, they analyze Zimmerman's voice, if it comes out the voice waves don't match then it was Tray yelling for help, if it comes out the wave forms of Zimmerman's voice then it would be him. Simple.

[onmyknees]

I can't understand why some of you keep bringing up the black/white race argument. Zimmerman isn't white, and doesn't even look white. Even though he very well may have committed this crime, believe it or not.. not every crime involving people of different races was racially motivated.


You know the answer to that rhetorical question...surely you do. It fits the narrative so much nicer when it's a white ( in this case "White Hispanic according to the NY Times) shooting an African American. Despite photos of clearly dark skinned grandparents, if one of Zimmerman's parents hadn't been white, do you think for a second we'd be 109 pages into this? About 100 pages ago I suggested to wait for legal discovery before jumping to so many conclusions....for doing so...you'd think I was the guy who pulled the fucking trigger. Fuck 'em...people are going to believe whatever they want for whatever reasons they want and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to dissuade them from that position. I absolutely believe the majority of people posting on this topic have created the events of this case in their own minds so clearly (based on nothing more than press reports and their own biases) they could be called to testify as either "expert" witnesses, eye witnesses, or mediums. lol

[natina]

Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'


Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman."
The evidence (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf) – including 183 pages of documents, witness statements and other material – was released Thursday to news organizations and other requestors by special prosecutor Angela Corey’s office, who has charged the 28-year-old Zimmerman with second-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Martin on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla. Also included was a document explaining what material was withheld.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?lite

[jamesedwards]

Wow gotta read this, thanks for the info again.

This is what we were saying all along, IF ZIMMERMAN WOULD OF STAYED HIS ASS IN THE SUV TRAY WOULD BE ALIVE!!!

Oh fuck a police report said this was avoidable? Oh dam Zimmerman just by that police report, oh my he is going down!!!!


Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'


Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman."
The evidence (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf) – including 183 pages of documents, witness statements and other material – was released Thursday to news organizations and other requestors by special prosecutor Angela Corey’s office, who has charged the 28-year-old Zimmerman with second-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Martin on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla. Also included was a document explaining what material was withheld.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?lite

[maddygirl]

Wow gotta read this, thanks for the info again.

This is what we were saying all along, IF ZIMMERMAN WOULD OF STAYED HIS ASS IN THE SUV TRAY WOULD BE ALIVE!!!
Yeah he should have just stayed in the car...

[jamesedwards]

Very cute.

Just in, Zimmerman himself was on a prescription for Tamazepam, according to the paramedic's incident report reproducing his medical records. (Tamazepam is also known as Restoril and is prescribed for anxiety and insomnia.)




He's probably thinking something along the lines of "fuck this punk-ass white boy" and decides to get froggy.

Then why was he yelling "help help?"

This just in: Tray had THC in his system.

[jamesedwards]

I can't understand why some of you keep bringing up the black/white race argument. Zimmerman isn't white, and doesn't even look white. Even though he very well may have committed this crime, believe it or not.. not every crime involving people of different races was racially motivated.

Well I understand your concern, so here's what I have read from the document, but me in particular is not really into the race thing, a teen was shot for no reason that's why I am angry as fuck and how the police handled it and how Zimmerman lied and said he was at his SUV when Tray attacked him and banged his head on the concrete. That's a lie.

So Here's why people are talking about race as an issue.

REPORT SAYS:
Another police report indicated that Zimmerman, who is white and of Hispanic heritage, had called Sanford police on at least four previous occasions while residing in the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community in Sanford, and in each case the “suspicious person” was a black male.

INVESTIGATION REPORT REVEALS:
“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

So with that what do you think people are going to think? Again Zimmerman is not just Hispanic, he is a mixture.

[jamesedwards]

Let me make something clear about out in the world, adults are the ones that are suppose to think more than the teens. Sure teens are suppose to think but remember YOUR ASS WAS ONCE A TEEN TOO AND DID SOME DUMB SHIT!!! For those that believe Trayvon deserved to be dead then you should look back on dumb shit you did and see if you should be dead.

Zimmerman is an adult he should of acted like one, not some vigilante hard ass, Tray is a teen, no matter what the situation is the adult should think more so than the teen should. Tray was 17 only, hell he know about what's really going on? He's only been on the earth 17 years and 10 of those years lack knowledge of the real world.

So what he put up the middle finger on facebook you know how many teens do that shit everyday? Does that constitute he should die? You got girls on twitter showing tits and ass, does that mean they deserve to die if they are in a neighborhood visiting?

Trayvon deserved to life, Zimmerman took his life away because he was so out and compelled to get someone for shit he was hallucinating about and fixed his dam mind on.

[Queens Guy]

So you mean to tell me FBI couldn't use voice recognition? They use that all the time. Being Trayvon is dead, they analyze Zimmerman's voice, if it comes out the voice waves don't match then it was Tray yelling for help, if it comes out the wave forms of Zimmerman's voice then it would be him. Simple.

james,

That's exactly what ABC is reporting. The FBI, which has the best forensic labs in the USA, analyzed the recording. They were unable to determine whose voice it was. ABC doesn't mention which specific technology was used, but I doubt that the FBI, which reports to Attorney General Eric Holder, who reports to President Obama, fudged the results.

As all of this recently released information gets reviewed, please don't look at just one news network. And I'm referring to MSNBC, where Al Sharpton is also one of their anchors. They may not think much of this information is damaging to the prosecution's case, but other networks, and I don't mean Fox, think this information is bad for the prosecution's case.

Here is a link to a story by ABC, which isn't as far left as MSNBC or as far right as Fox.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852#.T7WVMo4W820

Don't trust any one network. Look at a few of them. I do. In the US and even in the UK to see how they are covering the story.

[giovanni_hotel]

I can't understand why some of you keep bringing up the black/white race argument. Zimmerman isn't white, and doesn't even look white. Even though he very well may have committed this crime, believe it or not.. not every crime involving people of different races was racially motivated.

Think, Maddy.

If George Zimmerman was a green polka dotted Korean w/ red stripes on his ass, the fact that he admitted to shooting an unarmed teen through the chest out in public and wasn't charged with a crime for almost two months is where the outrage comes from.

Most people couldn't give a damn about Zimmerman's ethnic background, it's the endemic institutional racism in the criminal justice system that's highlighted by this case is what bystanders are so upset about.

George isn't a 'bad guy' because he's white/hispanic.

He's a piece of shit because Zimmerman murdered a kid in a confrontation he himself initiated.

[trish]

Exactly. I don't give a shit if Trayvon was purple and Zimmerman chartreuse. Switch it around if you like: Tray is chartreuse and Zimmerman purple. Giovanni's observation is worth repeating,

"...the fact that he admitted to shooting an unarmed teen through the chest out in public and wasn't charged with a crime for almost two months is where the outrage comes from.

Most people couldn't give a damn about Zimmerman's ethnic background, it's the endemic institutional racism in the criminal justice system that's highlighted by this case is what bystanders are so upset about.

George isn't a 'bad guy' because he's white/hispanic.

He's a piece of shit because Zimmerman murdered a kid in a confrontation he himself initiated."

[jamesedwards]

Don't you just love it.
The report also says from the medical examiner: ZIMMERMAN LACERATIONS.

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries.

His dam nose don't look broken, nor has the raccoon look around his eyes, no wonder there was no blood on his clothes.

http://img1.imagehousing.com/29/7e6f3551adc47f4b20589589aa211831.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1017322)

http://img1.imagehousing.com/29/346e81fb644b76ab7ab3d9ea423aa3ee.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1017323)

[giovanni_hotel]

Okay, the back of his head got scuffed up pretty bad, but still didn't require stitches. I see NO EVIDENCE that he had black eyes.

Looks like he was obviously in some kind of fight, but it was a far cry from a life and death struggle that required the use of a firearm IMO to defend himself.

[robertlouis]

Just a reflection from far away, but if this thread with all the endless speculation is in any way representative, it's hard to see how anyone in this situation can get a fair trial. Jury selection could go on for weeks.

[natina]

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!

(2) TWO EXPERT WITNESS WLL TESTIFY THAT IT WAS NO ZIMMERMAN SCREAMING FOR HELP

TRAYVON MARTIN CASE 911 CALL: SCREAMS NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S, 2 EXPERTS SAY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3J84CBVjf0)

Audio Experts: Screaming on 911 Tape NOT Killer George Zimmerman's - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=037gvxt5TWw&feature=related)

The Damning Audio and Video Evidence on George Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN0Zt0yhUiQ)




james,

That's exactly what ABC is reporting. The FBI, which has the best forensic labs in the USA, analyzed the recording. They were unable to determine whose voice it was. ABC doesn't mention which specific technology was used, but I doubt that the FBI, which reports to Attorney General Eric Holder, who reports to President Obama, fudged the results.

As all of this recently released information gets reviewed, please don't look at just one news network. And I'm referring to MSNBC, where Al Sharpton is also one of their anchors. They may not think much of this information is damaging to the prosecution's case, but other networks, and I don't mean Fox, think this information is bad for the prosecution's case.

Here is a link to a story by ABC, which isn't as far left as MSNBC or as far right as Fox.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852#.T7WVMo4W820

Don't trust any one network. Look at a few of them. I do. In the US and even in the UK to see how they are covering the story.

[natina]

Another police report indicated that Zimmerman, who is white and of Hispanic heritage, had called Sanford police on at least four previous occasions while residing in the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community in Sanford, and in each case the “suspicious person” was a black male.

“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

Another police report indicated that Sanford police thought Zimmerman was at fault, even though they let him go after questioning him.

"Investigation reveals that Martin was in fact running generally in the direction of where he was staying as a guest in the neighborhood," it said.

Zimmerman himself was on a prescription for Tamazepam, according to the paramedic's incident report reproducing his medical records. (Tamazepam is also known as Restoril and is prescribed for anxiety and insomnia.)

Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'

Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?lite

[jamesedwards]

Okay, the back of his head got scuffed up pretty bad, but still didn't require stitches. I see NO EVIDENCE that he had black eyes.

Looks like he was obviously in some kind of fight, but it was a far cry from a life and death struggle that required the use of a firearm IMO to defend himself.

Bro the little nicks and cuts he has are nothing compare to these dam cuts, the way he told it you would of thought he got cut like this:


http://img1.imagehousing.com/78/02f64784e96ba8b05535b1386b642d11.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1017345)

[natina]

Factual Evidence Against George Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sicgv2zCM0U&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

I told yall, I told you about voice recognition, If Zimmerman said there were only two people at that scene, himself and Trayvon and the analysis puts the VR against Zimmerman and it doesn't match up, then it had to be Trayvon's voice, because it was ONLY THOSE TWO! You don't need Trayvon's voice !!! Every time I hear that it makes me upset, this grown as man killing a child. AND FOR NO GOT DAM REASON!!!!

Oh and please don't tell me he didn't do it, FUCK OUTTA HERE HE ADMITTED HE DID IT!!! His shit is going to fall, Thank you Natina for that video!!!

[jamesedwards]

The audio shows that Zimmerman himself said he would meet the officers at the Mailbox before the cut entrance, then his ass switched it up and told the dispatcher to tell the police to call him. See if his ass would of stayed at the mailbox or his SUV this wouldn't have happen.

When Trayvon was walking towards Zimmerman it wasn't because he saw Zimmerman that time, Trayvon was under something to protect him from the rain. And the something Zimmerman is talking about Trayvon has WAS SKITTLES AND A DAM ICE TEA!!! Zimmerman said himself "HE LOOKS LIKE A TEEN". So Trayvon was basically trying to keep dry and Zimmerman took all that as being fucking suspicious.

When It rains I do the same thing, If I am two blocks away I get under something then run to another point , then run to another point then run straight to my destination, that's all Tray was doing. Zimmerman hallucinating ass while he was on whatever he was on thought Tray was doing that because he was doing something wrong. Fact is TRAYVON BELONGED THERE BECAUSE HE WAS VISITING HIS FATHER!!! He was not intruding!!!

That first pop was a door slamming of another witness that Zimmerman knocked on that person's door. in this video it has audio of a gun supposedly was not a gun cocking back it was Zimmerman knocking on a door and he did it twice and you can hear Zimmerman whisper to this person in another audio, that's why when Zimmerman started fighting with the teen the person ran inside and the door slammed because that person went to call police.

[AmyDaly]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903


A witness told Florida cops that he saw Trayvon Martin straddling George Zimmerman and pummeling the neighborhood watch captain “MMA style” shortly before the unarmed teen was felled by a gunshot to the chest.

The witness’s account was included in Sanford Police Department reports released today.

Interviewed by cops about 90 minutes after the shooting, the witness--whose name was redacted from police documents--said that he was inside his home when he heard a “commotion coming from the walk way” behind his residence.

The man recalled seeing “a black male, wearing a dark colored ‘hoodie’ on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.” The black male, he added, “was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.'”

The witness--who was in his living room and about 30 feet away from the confrontation-- said he called out to the two men that he was dialing 911. “He then heard a ‘pop,’” police reported, and saw the black male “laid out on the grass.”

Zimmerman is pictured above in photos taken by police shortly after the February 26 shooting.

The police reports also include observations from two Sanford cops regarding Zimmerman’s physical appearance following the shooting. Officer Timothy Smith reported that Zimmerman was “bleeding from the nose and back of his head,” while Officer Jonathan Mead noted that he “appeared to have a broken and bloody nose and swelling of his face.”

Investigators also reported receiving medical reports from Altamonte Medical Practice “identifying the injuries sustained by Zimmerman on the evening of 2/26/2012.” The records indicated that he suffered an “open wound of scalp” and “Nasal bones, closed fracture.”

[buds]

The only 2 TRUE facts of this case that are:

George is alive, martin is dead.

When the dust clears and the truth comes out you will all see this was a just a media game to drive a wedge into society by creating a race war.

[jamesedwards]

Zimmerman claims he was at his SUV in the police report and Tray attacked him from behind on his left side, I know that's a lie because the Suv was on the outside of the cut through over 50 yards away and this witness just said "THEY WERE ON ALL GRASS!!!

[AmyDaly]

Zimmerman claims he was at his SUV in the police report and Tray attacked him from behind on his left side, I know that's a lie because the Suv was on the outside of the cut through over 50 yards away and this witness just said "THEY WERE ON ALL GRASS!!!

"Zimmerman claims he got out of his vehicle to find a house number to let police know where he saw the allegedly suspicious person, and while returning to his car was knocked down by a punch in the nose and attacked by Martin."

He said he was returning to. Not at.

[jamesedwards]

The man recalled seeing “a black male, wearing a dark colored ‘hoodie’ on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.””

Well with the new evidence by the analysis said THAT WAS NOT ZIMMERMAN'S VOICE ON THAT AUDIO AND THE TAPE WAS 26DB clear to hear.

Two women one Caucasian and the other Hispanic said "IT WAS TRAYVON YELLING FOR HELP!!!

Trayvon's Mother and father said that was there son yelling not Zimmerman.

The witness you're talking about is probably "JOHN" who Zimmerman knocked on his door and when Zimmerman and Trayvon got into a scuffle the witness ran you can hear a door slam right before the gun shot, that's why the other witness said he heard two shots, it's evident that only one shot was fired and and a door was slammed. Now either that witness is taking up for Zimmerman or else...... He better not be lying because his ass could get in a lot of trouble.

So there you have it 4 against one, majority rule!!!

[jamesedwards]

"Zimmerman claims he got out of his vehicle to find a house number to let police know where he saw the allegedly suspicious person, and while returning to his car was knocked down by a punch in the nose and attacked by Martin."

He said he was returning to. Not at.

You should know not to use "AT" at the end of a sentence LOL

Now ummmm can you show me a document or something where he said HE WAS RETURNING TO HIS SUV and not at his SUV? Thank you.

It still makes no sense that Trayvon would double back to fight some one he initially was afraid of, that's what his call to his girlfriend was about, that's why he ran a second time. Once to cover from the rain the 2nd from Zimmerman.

[jamesedwards]

Amy did you hear that? not one but two voice experts along with two females and Trayvon's parents said it was not Zimmerman yelling for help when Zimmerman said it was him yelling for help. a couple of scratches don't let Zimmerman get off for murder. Hell I been in hella fights when I was young it bruised all that, but this dude Zimmerman walking into the police station don't seem hurt at all, the medical team even said his wounds were MINOR!!! Not as serious as Zimmerman tried to make it seem.

Zimmerman lied real good to cover his ass he knew that from the jump street.

[AmyDaly]

You should know not to use "AT" at the end of a sentence LOL

Now ummmm can you show me a document or something where he said HE WAS RETURNING TO HIS SUV and not at his SUV? Thank you.

It still makes no sense that Trayvon would double back to fight some one he initially was afraid of, that's what his call to his girlfriend was about, that's why he ran a second time. Once to cover from the rain the 2nd from Zimmerman.
My use of the word "at" at the end of my sentence was appropriate. The documentation is the police report in the section with the statement from Zimmerman. Read it.

And of course it makes no sense. He wants to cover from the rain, but doesn't mind walking to and back from the store in the rain. He is scared of zimmerman, but also decided to jump on top of him MMA style and beat his ass. His girlfriends story? Its her word against Zimmerman. There is more actual evidence backing up most of what Zimmerman has had to say. Especially after today.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

I like how none of you people were there but seem to know so much.

[AmyDaly]

Amy did you hear that? not one but two voice experts along with two females and Trayvon's parents said it was not Zimmerman yelling for help when Zimmerman said it was him yelling for help. a couple of scratches don't let Zimmerman get off for murder. Hell I been in hella fights when I was young it bruised all that, but this dude Zimmerman walking into the police station don't seem hurt at all, the medical team even said his wounds were MINOR!!! Not as serious as Zimmerman tried to make it seem.

Zimmerman lied real good to cover his ass he knew that from the jump street.

Of course his parents are going to say that. I would of it was my kid. And they said it was too low quality to identify anyone. Fortunately there is more than one witness including one who witnessed the whole thing and said he was getting his ass beat MMA style and say he witnessed Zimmerman yelling for help in front of his apartment.

[AmyDaly]

I like how none of you people were there but seem to know so much.
I wasn't in world war 2, but I learned a lot about it in high school. What is your point?

[AmyDaly]

Well with the new evidence by the analysis said THAT WAS NOT ZIMMERMAN'S VOICE ON THAT AUDIO AND THE TAPE WAS 26DB clear to hear.

Two women one Caucasian and the other Hispanic said "IT WAS TRAYVON YELLING FOR HELP!!!

Trayvon's Mother and father said that was there son yelling not Zimmerman.

The witness you're talking about is probably "JOHN" who Zimmerman knocked on his door and when Zimmerman and Trayvon got into a scuffle the witness ran you can hear a door slam right before the gun shot, that's why the other witness said he heard two shots, it's evident that only one shot was fired and and a door was slammed. Now either that witness is taking up for Zimmerman or else...... He better not be lying because his ass could get in a lot of trouble.

So there you have it 4 against one, majority rule!!!
None of the people you name saw it with their own eyes. They heard it and assumed. None of the analysts say it is Trayvon either. Zimmerman's parents claimed it was zimmerman as well. They aren't credible witnesses any more than Trayvon's parents.

It is also clear you didn't read the article or you selectively read it. The witness was interviewed about 90 minutes after it happened.

[natina]

Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense
Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn&#39;t self defense - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpsCc8IRHY&feature=related)

[buds]

Amy stop it!, Don't try to bring logic to this.

The HA assistant prosocuter team say george is guilty no matter what facts you bring to the topic.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

I wasn't in world war 2, but I learned a lot about it in high school. What is your point?

Meaning no disrespect, Amy but...my point is you weren't there. Speculation is just that.

[buds]

Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense


*eye witnesses* very rarley get the facts correct and thats a FACT.

I was wondering if the 2 witnesses actually were standing there watching the episode or did they come out after they heard the shot fired??????

[jamesedwards]

None of the people you name saw it with their own eyes. They heard it and assumed. None of the analysts say it is Trayvon either. Zimmerman's parents claimed it was zimmerman as well. They aren't credible witnesses any more than Trayvon's parents.

Ok, yes they said it wasn't Trayvon, but THEY DEFINITELY SAID IT'S NOT ZIMMERMAN. Now I know you're not stupid to believe after what was said. I mean If they said it's not Zimmerman and it was only him and Trayvon, then ummmmmmmmm It had to be Trayvon's voice. I mean wtf they were the only two there fighting, Tray is dead and Zimmerman is alive and his voice was captured. The equation has to come out that it was Trayvon if it wasn't Zimmerman. So let me get this, they said it wasn't Zimmerman, and the analysis said it wasn't Trayvon, so who is it a ghost?

[buds]

my point is you weren't there. Speculation is just that.

There are only 2 facts, after that this whole topic is specualtion!!!!

[jamesedwards]

And of course it makes no sense. He wants to cover from the rain, but doesn't mind walking to and back from the store in the rain. He is scared of zimmerman, but also decided to jump on top of him MMA style and beat his ass. His girlfriends story? Its her word against Zimmerman. There is more actual evidence backing up most of what Zimmerman has had to say. Especially after today.

Hold the hell up, are you trying make it seem that teen had no right to work in the rain or not? WTF is you talking about? When he went to the store it was light drizzle then as he came back it got heavy, haven't you been in rain like that where it was drizzling then it got heavy then it stopped or got light again? People go to the store in rain, hell people take so called romantic walks in the rain, you're making it seem like he shouldn't have been in the rain.

who the fuck said he did a MMA move on Zimmerman? WTF ?

There is more evidence backing up Zimmerman only in your mind!!!
Grown ass man had no business following a teen. Zimmerman has a violent past, am I wrong or right? How do Zimmerman assault two police with 2 counts and gets to go home? If that was an African descent person they would of hung our ass!!! that's a fact!!!

[jamesedwards]

Fact is, Zimmerman should of kept his ass in his Suv.

Fact is in the neighborhood watch rules, 1. you are not to carry a weapon-ZIMMERMAN VIOLATED THAT RULE. 2. You are not to engage a person, call the police - Zimmerman VIOLATED THAT RULE ALSO!!!

How the fuck some of you going to dismiss Trayvon's girlfriend testimony like it don't matter, next to Zimmerman she was the last to talk to Trayvon she is very very dam important to this case. PHONE LOGS SHOW HE WAS TALKING TO HER ABOUT THAT AND IT SHOWS HE WAS BEING STALKED, another FACT!!!

[buds]

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded `no."'

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/photo-reveals-zimmerman-had-bloody-nose-after-shooting-trayvon-martin/#ixzz1vByYUpUW

[jamesedwards]

Another fact, Zimmerman was deemed, AS A MANSLAUGHTER CASE and then he wasn't arrested!!! How come?

Another fact, how is it that Trayvon gets missing for 3 days in a morgue and the police dept list him as a john doe when they had the name of him in 36 hours?

I mean what the fuck is really going on here. OH logic? fuck logic, ABSOLUTE FACTS AND EVIDENCE IS PERTINENT IN THIS CASE!!!

[buds]

Fact is, Zimmerman should of kept his ass in his Suv.

Fact is in the neighborhood watch rules, 1. you are not to carry a weapon-ZIMMERMAN VIOLATED THAT RULE. 2. You are not to engage a person, call the police - Zimmerman VIOLATED THAT RULE ALSO!!!

How the fuck some of you going to dismiss Trayvon's girlfriend testimony like it don't matter, next to Zimmerman she was the last to talk to Trayvon she is very very dam important to this case. PHONE LOGS SHOW HE WAS TALKING TO HER ABOUT THAT AND IT SHOWS HE WAS BEING STALKED, another FACT!!!


Fact is, If martin would have not been suspended he would be alive

Fact is, if martins girl thought he couldn't handle the situation SHE sghould have called the cops.

Fact is, martins girl's testimony is here say and nothing more.

[buds]

Another fact, Zimmerman was deemed, AS A MANSLAUGHTER CASE and then he wasn't arrested!!! How come?

Another fact, how is it that Trayvon gets missing for 3 days in a morgue and the police dept list him as a john doe when they had the name of him in 36 hours?

I mean what the fuck is really going on here. OH logic? fuck logic, ABSOLUTE FACTS AND EVIDENCE IS PERTINENT IN THIS CASE!!!

Another fact, there was not enough evidence to make a charge untill the *special prosecuter* was put in place..........hmm

Another fact, what does the morgue have to do with george shooting him?

[jamesedwards]

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded `no."'

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/photo-reveals-zimmerman-had-bloody-nose-after-shooting-trayvon-martin/#ixzz1vByYUpUW

What did Trayvon's mother say?

Here we go again!!!

Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

Another fact, there was not enough evidence to make a charge untill the *special prosecuter* was put in place..........hmm

Another fact, what does the morgue have to do with george shooting him?

It happens to be a fact that HE WAS NAMED A JOHN DOE for 3 days, don't police do an investigation to get a person's name? OH but wait a minute they had his name within 36 hours, shouldn't that give a report to the morgue so they can stop calling him a John Doe, so I asked wtf is really going on. Being Zimmerman got off two counts of violent assault on a police officer, I questioned WHAT THE FUCK IS REALLY GOING ON that's that facts.

We all got dam well if it was an African descent person that shoot any dam body they would of arrested our asses and not let us go from the getty up.

Just not long ago in Long Island NYC an African descent man pulled out his licensed assault rifle to warn off over 20 gang members he thought to be of MS-13, he fired into the ground four times, guess what? He was still arrested and didn't kill no dam one. So this motha fucka Zimmerman kills a person and not be arrested? Get the fuck outta here.

IN New York another African descent man kills a Caucasian man for trying to rob and harm him in his home, he used self defense, I know I don't have to tell you where I am going right? OK, THE AFRICAN DESCENT MAN IS DOING TIME BECAUSE HE USED SELF DEFENSE ON A CAUCASIAN!!! Now you do the math.

[buds]

It happens to be a fact that HE WAS NAMED A JOHN DOE for 3 days, don't police do an investigation to get a person's name? OH but wait a minute they had his name within 36 hours, shouldn't that give a report to the morgue so they can stop calling him a John Doe, so I asked wtf is really going on.

Ok then bring the special prosecuter to bring charges to the coroner for that.

thats not the topic.

[buds]

What did Trayvon's mother say?


I'm talking about the father don't twist it.

So the father doesn't know his sons voice????? Or maybe the father was on point at the beginning.

[jamesedwards]

I'm talking about the father don't twist it.

So the father doesn't know his sons voice????? Or maybe the father was on point at the beginning.

So are you talking about the mother don't know her own son's voice?

And specialist to back that up also?

[buds]

So are you talking about the mother don't know her own son's voice?

And specialist to back that up also?

Shit he was living with the father cause the mother probably couldn't control him.

A *specialist* gets paid by the person who hired them.

[buds]

It happens to be a fact that HE WAS NAMED A JOHN DOE for 3 days, don't police do an investigation to get a person's name? OH but wait a minute they had his name within 36 hours, shouldn't that give a report to the morgue so they can stop calling him a John Doe, so I asked wtf is really going on. Being Zimmerman got off two counts of violent assault on a police officer, I questioned WHAT THE FUCK IS REALLY GOING ON that's that facts.

We all got dam well if it was an African descent person that shoot any dam body they would of arrested our asses and not let us go from the getty up.

Just not long ago in Long Island NYC an African descent man pulled out his licensed assault rifle to warn off over 20 gang members he thought to be of MS-13, he fired into the ground four times, guess what? He was still arrested and didn't kill no dam one. So this motha fucka Zimmerman kills a person and not be arrested? Get the fuck outta here.

IN New York another African descent man kills a Caucasian man for trying to rob and harm him in his home, he used self defense, I know I don't have to tell you where I am going right? OK, THE AFRICAN DESCENT MAN IS DOING TIME BECAUSE HE USED SELF DEFENSE ON A CAUCASIAN!!! Now you do the math.



I love the edit after i responded.

Whatever keep playing the race card to try and bolster your arguement.

I thought we established that it was the dispatcher who brought race into this and george said he din't know.

[jamesedwards]

I love the edit after i responded.

Whatever keep playing the race card to try and bolster your arguement.

I thought we established that it was the dispatcher who brought race into this and george said he din't know.

Hold up I can't edit my own post if I want to add something in or correct a mistake? So what are you insinuating because of my editing? I mean Really?

[natina]

amydaly will respond like fox news to any important issue in the black community.

facts stated in the affidavit about who was not calling for help and who the only OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION WOULD BE CALLING AND SCREAMING FOR HELP AS THERE WAS NO OTHERS OUT SIDE BUT ZIMMERMAN AND MTRAYVON MARTIN

AMYDALT=Y WILL CONTINUE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS JUST TO TROLL AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES.

Nancy explains the law in Trayvon death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGjNcB9l6k&feature=related)

Curtis Sliwa on what Zimmerman did wrong - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494D9VJwrMk&feature=related)


New Trayvon Martin Witness speaks to CNNs Anderson Cooper - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYf2xTvJpzU&feature=related)






So are you talking about the mother don't know her own son's voice?

And specialist to back that up also?

[jamesedwards]

I love the edit after i responded.

Whatever keep playing the race card to try and bolster your arguement.

I thought we established that it was the dispatcher who brought race into this and george said he din't know.

LOL are you fucking kidding me? The dispatcher?

Man we are talking about a dam institution that's larger than some dam dispatcher that's racism against so called minorities, Any time you have Caucasian give statistics that Caucasians commit the most crimes yet there are more African descent people in jail than Caucasians then you tell me what the fuck is that? Are you going to call it a mistake? Let me ask you how many cases you know African descent cops shooting an unarmed Caucasian person? Name one? Tell me what happened, if you can find one.

I see what yall trying to do sweep the race shit right under the rug, we ain't established shit on my end dude.

[jamesedwards]

I laugh at Amy because she tried to use dialectic acrobatics with that bullshit talking about the analysis didn't say it was Trayvon's voice either. If it was only Trayvon and Zimmerman there and Tray is dead and the analysis finds out it's not Zimmerman's voice who the hell else can it be? Of course the didn't analyze Trays voice, BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING DEAD, COURTESY OF VIGILANTE GEORGE!!!

I am trying to figure out has Amy taken math!!! 2 eliminate one, equals 1 !!! If they said it's not Zimmerman's voice then it had to be Trays.

There was a report that I read and I don't have it where both the mother and father said it was Trayvon's voice. Now we can eliminate Trayvon's father being I don't have that document, but now you got Tray's mother and 2 analysis that says IT'S NOT ZIMMERMAN!!! 3 against one!!!

[jamesedwards]

blaaaaaaaah Curtis Silwa said HE DID NOTHING RIGHT LOL HAHAHAH LOL DAMMMMMM I mean give Zimmerman some credit he did call the police lol hahahahah lol ctfu lol

He said he had all the furniture upstairs and rearanged in the wrong room lol

James <<<< fell the fuck out laughing lol Cutis aint right lol hahahah

[AmyDaly]

amydaly will respond like fox news to any important issue in the black community.

facts stated in the affidavit about who was not calling for help and who the only OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION WOULD BE CALLING AND SCREAMING FOR HELP AS THERE WAS NO OTHERS OUT SIDE BUT ZIMMERMAN AND MTRAYVON MARTIN

AMYDALT=Y WILL CONTINUE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS JUST TO TROLL AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES.

lol I could care less about black issues because I am not black. Its only a black issue because you are making it one. You only want this guy to go to jail because he is white and you hate whitey. Why you so mad?

[jamesedwards]

Curtis is saying exactly what I been saying "THE FUCKA ZIMMERMAN HALLUCINATING THAT TRAYVON WAS UP TO NO DAM GOOD!!! HE WAS ON A VIGILANTE PROWL"
Now I don't know Curtis I met him once back in the day in NYC but he is seeing exactly the same shit I see as far as Zimmerman. Zimmerman is a fucking liar and a lunatic, delusional paranoid motha fucka!!! His mental sickness lead to someone being killed!!!

[AmyDaly]

I laugh at Amy because she tried to use dialectic acrobatics with that bullshit talking about the analysis didn't say it was Trayvon's voice either. If it was only Trayvon and Zimmerman there and Tray is dead and the analysis finds out it's not Zimmerman's voice who the hell else can it be? Of course the didn't analyze Trays voice, BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING DEAD, COURTESY OF VIGILANTE GEORGE!!!

I am trying to figure out has Amy taken math!!! 2 eliminate one, equals 1 !!! If they said it's not Zimmerman's voice then it had to be Trays.

There was a report that I read and I don't have it where both the mother and father said it was Trayvon's voice. Now we can eliminate Trayvon's father being I don't have that document, but now you got Tray's mother and 2 analysis that says IT'S NOT ZIMMERMAN!!! 3 against one!!!
Well, you can argue all you want, but in the end its going to be up to the court to decide and I guess we can see what happens then. It's not looking good for the prosecution though. Its not even worth it to try and argue logic with people who always have to resort to "Its racist" or personal insults. My point is pretty much proven.

[natina]

CAUCASIAN PEOPLE FOR ZIMMERMAN'S ARREST AND CONVICTION

OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS DESCRIBES TRAY VON MARTIN'S LAST MOMENT - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l09Sur7xyg&amp;amp;feature=related)


STUDENT RALLY AT SEMINOLE COUNTY CRIMINAL CENTER - 3/19/2012

CROWD OF OUTRAGED CITIZENS AND STUDENT LAWYERS DEMAND GEORGE ZIMMERMANS ARREST AND NEW STATE PROSECUTOR FOR CASE AT THE SANFORD COURTHOUSE.

THE OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS SPEAKS ON THE CHILLING MOMENTS JUST BEFORE TRAYVON MARTIN'S DEATH IN HER DAUGHTERS BACKYARD


Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23P2TdQXfE&feature=related)

[natina]

911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related)

[AmyDaly]

911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related)

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/george-zimmerman-said-fucking-cold-or-fucking-punks

[jamesedwards]

lol I could care less about black issues because I am not black. Its only a black issue because you are making it one. You only want this guy to go to jail because he is white and you hate whitey. Why you so mad?

Natina didn't say BLACK ISSUES she said specifically AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUSES. My people aren't black, black is a made up status classification for identity to try and group all my people in here in America, and that was brought up in the 1900's. We are African descent I prefer or African Americans, others prefer, yeah some of my people call themselves black because they don't understand status and classification.
Africans don't consider themselves black because they are not when they come over here they are from sovereign places from Africa and not wards of the state.

But I feel you though, you don't have to give a shit about African descent people's issues, that tells me who you are already and thank you for making that statement.

[jamesedwards]

Well, you can argue all you want, but in the end its going to be up to the court to decide and I guess we can see what happens then. It's not looking good for the prosecution though. Its not even worth it to try and argue logic with people who always have to resort to "Its racist" or personal insults. My point is pretty much proven.

You're point ain't prove nothing, and see there you go, being delusional with asinine rhetoric saying the prosecution side is not looking good, ummmm well, we shall see won't we? I don't deal with one's personal logic, that's equivalent to opinions which don't say shit in a court of law. I have worked for years in the legal system and logic is inadmissible in a court of law. Facts is pertinent in a case.

They have already put forth that Zimmerman could have avoided this madness that went down, and we shall see how this plays out.

[jamesedwards]

DAm even Nancy knows Zimmerman is the aggressor and self defense he can't claim,, damm!!!

[AmyDaly]

Natina didn't say BLACK ISSUES she said specifically AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUSES. My people aren't black, black is a made up status classification for identity to try and group all my people in here in America, and that was brought up in the 1900's. We are African descent I prefer or African Americans, others prefer, yeah some of my people call themselves black because they don't understand status and classification.
Africans don't consider themselves black because they are not when they come over here they are from sovereign places from Africa and not wards of the state.

But I feel you though, you don't have to give a shit about African descent people's issues, that tells me who you are already and thank you for making that statement.

lol :) You're welcome.

[jamesedwards]

George Zimmerman Said “Fucking Cold” or “Fucking Punks” (updated)

LOL well I never got into the coon thing because the audio was bad but you can hear now he is saying punks. Just like someone said on the thread there.

CapitanCaguama 5 pts
"What an irresponsible and worthless journalist is this person. I can't believe that he presents this. First CNN "expert" saying that what you listen in on the tape is cold, when you can clearly hear that there's an s at the end of such word and then, the type of followup he does about the whole story, trying to portrait Trayvon as a criminal."

markranger 53 pts
"George Zimmerman Said “Fucking Cold” or “Fucking Punks” (updated)??? fucking cold.. really, that was considered. This is not upstate new york or the mid-west. People don't typically complain about going to florida and experiencing fucking cold weather. What was it 50s (guess it could be relative)? Sounds like no one is sure what he said."

LOL I don't have to say nothing lol These people are on the right track lol He's definitely not saying cold it doesn't even fit why he would say that anyway. Punks yes because of the situation and as Zimmerman said "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY" so he deemed them as Punks not a Cold lol . Picture him saying "these fucking colds." lol hahahah With an "S" lol

[theoryman]

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--

[jamesedwards]

:werd: I agree, do what you have to, to PROTECT your family that is your right.

Yes guns are not the problem people are. Guns don't shoot people, PEOPLE SHOOT PEOPLE!!! I have nothing to say that is wrong with what you said.


Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--

[jamesedwards]

For people that supports Zimmerman here's the million dollar comment I will make.
You sit here and try to logically show Zimmerman was right in doing what he did and that is he shot and killed an unarmed man.

For you supporters who support him, HOW WOULD YOU REACT IF HE KILLED YOUR CHILD IN THE SAME INCIDENT WITHOUT NOTHING CHANGING AS HE DID TRAYVON?

I know if it was me it wouldn't sit well as roses I would be one angry motha fucka!!!

[natina]

do not confront or pursue and expect to use SYG

Teen&#39;s Killing Stirs Debate on &#39;Stand Your Ground&#39; Law - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5EF-KjwKP8&feature=related)



CAUCASIAN PEOPLE FOR ZIMMERMAN'S ARREST AND CONVICTION

OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS DESCRIBES TRAY VON MARTIN'S LAST MOMENT - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l09Sur7xyg&amp;amp;feature=related)


STUDENT RALLY AT SEMINOLE COUNTY CRIMINAL CENTER - 3/19/2012

CROWD OF OUTRAGED CITIZENS AND STUDENT LAWYERS DEMAND GEORGE ZIMMERMANS ARREST AND NEW STATE PROSECUTOR FOR CASE AT THE SANFORD COURTHOUSE.

THE OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS SPEAKS ON THE CHILLING MOMENTS JUST BEFORE TRAYVON MARTIN'S DEATH IN HER DAUGHTERS BACKYARD


Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23P2TdQXfE&feature=related)


911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related)


amydaly will respond like fox news to any important issue in the black community.

facts stated in the affidavit about who was not calling for help and who the only OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION WOULD BE CALLING AND SCREAMING FOR HELP AS THERE WAS NO OTHERS OUT SIDE BUT ZIMMERMAN AND MTRAYVON MARTIN

AMYDALT=Y WILL CONTINUE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS JUST TO TROLL AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES.

Nancy explains the law in Trayvon death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGjNcB9l6k&feature=related)

Curtis Sliwa on what Zimmerman did wrong - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494D9VJwrMk&feature=related)


New Trayvon Martin Witness speaks to CNNs Anderson Cooper - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYf2xTvJpzU&feature=related)

[AmyDaly]

For people that supports Zimmerman here's the million dollar comment I will make.
You sit here and try to logically show Zimmerman was right in doing what he did and that is he shot and killed an unarmed man.

For you supporters who support him, HOW WOULD YOU REACT IF HE KILLED YOUR CHILD IN THE SAME INCIDENT WITHOUT NOTHING CHANGING AS HE DID TRAYVON?

I know if it was me it wouldn't sit well as roses I would be one angry motha fucka!!!
If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

[maddygirl]

Well I understand your concern, so here's what I have read from the document, but me in particular is not really into the race thing, a teen was shot for no reason that's why I am angry as fuck and how the police handled it and how Zimmerman lied and said he was at his SUV when Tray attacked him and banged his head on the concrete. That's a lie.

So Here's why people are talking about race as an issue.

REPORT SAYS:
Another police report indicated that Zimmerman, who is white and of Hispanic heritage, had called Sanford police on at least four previous occasions while residing in the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community in Sanford, and in each case the “suspicious person” was a black male.

INVESTIGATION REPORT REVEALS:
“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

So with that what do you think people are going to think? Again Zimmerman is not just Hispanic, he is a mixture.
Oh if that's true then yeah I agree it seems like he has a problem with African-Americans or judges them only based off the fact that they're African-American...

[maddygirl]

Think, Maddy.

If George Zimmerman was a green polka dotted Korean w/ red stripes on his ass, the fact that he admitted to shooting an unarmed teen through the chest out in public and wasn't charged with a crime for almost two months is where the outrage comes from.

Most people couldn't give a damn about Zimmerman's ethnic background, it's the endemic institutional racism in the criminal justice system that's highlighted by this case is what bystanders are so upset about.

George isn't a 'bad guy' because he's white/hispanic.

He's a piece of shit because Zimmerman murdered a kid in a confrontation he himself initiated.
Yeah I agree, him shooting Trayon was way out of line..

[maddygirl]

Yeah I agree, him shooting Trayon was way out of line..
That's why I carry pepperspray anyway.

[natina]

nancy grace says he said COON AND AGGRESSOR WAS ZIMMERMAN based on the evidence and court rules

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman&#39;s friend - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtbknt2VhE&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

Nice, I like how you tried to play verbal gymnastics but here's the bomb to that last thing that was in THE POLICE DOCUMENTS, not my opinion but this is fact about what was said.

"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable.

So your double back rhetoric means nothing because now this paints a picture to folk that Trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out his SUV. Also it paints the wonderful picture that if this is so SELF DEFENSE IS OUT OF THE DAM QUESTION for Mr Z!!! And you claimed the Prosecutors case is looking weak? hahahah blaaaaaaaah lol Yeah ok, I want you to keep thinking just like that.

See that's what I have been saying from the get go I didn't know the police said that, I knew it. I guess that's logic huh Amy? LOL :dead:

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed-light-trayvon-martin-killing-235341368.html <<<<

[jamesedwards]

Fact is, If martin would have not been suspended he would be alive

Fact is, if martins girl thought he couldn't handle the situation SHE sghould have called the cops.

Fact is, martins girl's testimony is here say and nothing more.

What you have just said was the most IGNORANT BULLSHIT I HAVE SEEN YET!!!

Let me break down your stupidity.

1. Tray would be alive if he wouldn't have gotten suspended you said? SUSPENSION DIDN'T STALK TRAYVON DOWN AND SHOT HIM!!! Zimmerman did!! Him being suspended has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's not even part of the case. Thousands of teen are suspended you're telling me they should be killed because if they didn't get suspended they would be alive? :screwy So that's not a fact because it's not part of the case and he could of visited his father without being suspended that night did the same thing and gotten killed. What you would say then? Oh he shouldn't have visited his father?

2. NOT A FACT THAT YOU SAID Tray's girlfriend is HERESAY!!! Do you even know what HERESAY means in the legal term? LOL obviously do don't. First off FACT she will be in court and her phone call log of docs as evidence, FACT!!!
FACT, they have the phone log of her phone call with Trayvon and she is the last person he talked to!!! FACT, heresay is when one person gets info from another person about something but the person that is telling the story based on info from someone is IS HERESAY!!! Trayvon's girlfriend didn't get that info from anyone she is first hand evidence and talking directly to Trayvon and her testimony will be permitted in a court of law!!

3. You're saying why didn't she call police at the time it was going on? FACT SHE WAS ON THE PHONE WITH TRAY AS IT'S GOING DOWN. Even if she would of called police it would of been to late. She was on the phone with him telling him what to do and she heard voices and the phone went dead!!! Amy got this crazy idea that Trayvon doubled back, stupidiest shit I have heard. Who doubles back ready to fight with a cell phone in their hand, and makes a quote "WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME"? That right there alone shows Zimmerman was following the guy. Again this has nothing to do with the case and this is some side chain emotional opinion bullshit!!!

Fallacious bullshit don't win a dam thing when bad rhetoric is in play trying to make shit smell sweet.

[jamesedwards]

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded `no."'

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/photo-reveals-zimmerman-had-bloody-nose-after-shooting-trayvon-martin/#ixzz1vByYUpUW

The mother, and 2 expert annalist say it was Trayvon's voice. You think the mother word is not as good as the fathers? She held him for 9 months she shold know. Why I go with her? Because she has 2 annalist corroborating what she said, 3 against 1 majority rules. If the experts was on the father side I wouldn't have shit to say, but now you don't have a stool to sit on!!!

ARTICLE:
"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable. That is the headline."

The release of evidence did little to clear up whose voice is screaming for help in the background of several 911 calls made during the fight.
Since first hearing the calls in early March, Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, has been unequivocal in saying that it was her son's voice on the tapes.

But Serino wrote in a report that he played a 911 call for Martin's father, Tracy, in which the screams are heard multiple times.
"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.'"

It's funny how Trayvon's mother is said it was her son directly yet Tray's father is being reported by someone that said the police said the father said no. I would have to hear the father say that himself. and if he did say no, his saying no is not more powerful than the mother, and the mother have 2 experts backing her up!!! :)

[jamesedwards]

Now for those that think the prosecution case is falling apart think again, and here's the news!!!

ARTICLE:
Other evidence supports the contention of Martin's parents that Zimmerman was the aggressor.
The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors that the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written on March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.
He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancee in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.
The lawyer for Martin's parents seized on the investigator's recommendation.
"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable.

Once this is on the table that Zimmerman could of avoided this situation of confrontation and he was the AGGRESSOR, SELF DEFENSE IS OUT THE WINDOW, HE'S GOING TO JAIL!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed-light-trayvon-martin-killing-235341368.html

[giovanni_hotel]

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--


This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

[GroobySteven]

This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

It's certainly not JUST guns. America for whatever reasons is more violent than some other countries but guns a huge factor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-ehrlich/uk-gun-ownership-up-deaths-down_b_1209967.html

"Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/25/gun-ownership-firearms-certificates?INTCMP=SRCH"

In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.


Cowboys.

[Willie Escalade]

Chargers!

[giovanni_hotel]

The latest.....!

Evidence mixed for Zimmerman's self-defense claim. AP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCdykoIjmPMAgLTFzxHVIydZIECQ?docId=3f268f957 ba44ecdba44ed43b71e48e1

[giovanni_hotel]

From the AP article:


Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them.

"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the unidentified woman says in an audio recording.

A man whose name was deleted from the audio told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. It wasn't clear which company it was.

The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said that when he first started, many employees didn't like him. Zimmerman seized on this, the employee said, and bullied him.

Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent when talking about the employee, the man said. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him.

"It was so immature," said the employee, who ended up writing a letter to management about Zimmerman.

[giovanni_hotel]

New video of Martin buying Skittles before his murder.
Trayvon Martin&#39;s Pre-Shooting Visit to 7-Eleven Captured on Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOALIfqnWh8&feature=related)

[Queens Guy]

This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

I disagree with you on your first point. While Zimmerman certainly wouldn't have ignored punches coming from Trayvon, I think he could have held Trayvon off with his left hand/arm while reaching for the gun with his right hand. That would have been my instinct if I was losing the fight.

As far the shot going off when they were separated, you may be right, but they couldn't have been separated by all that much. The autopsy report says the wound was from an 'intermediate' distance, which in their terms is between 1 and 18 inches away. Distances are either 'contact', less than 1 inch, 'intermediate', 1-18 inches, or 'distant', greater than 18 inches.

Unfortunately, the angle of the shot has not been reported. So, we don't know if that fits with Zimmerman's story or not.

[Queens Guy]

As a comparison, if you were carrying pepper spray and you were getting attacked, I think your instinct would be to hold off the attacker the best you could with one arm, and reach for the pepper spray so you could spray it into his eyes and stop the fight.

[InHouston]

nancy grace says he said COON AND AGGRESSOR WAS ZIMMERMAN based on the evidence and court rules

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtbknt2VhE&feature=related)


I've listened to that tape over and over, and I heard nothing of the kind.

[InHouston]

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--

Excellent post! I’ve had to draw my weapon a couple of times on people half my age who feel they can maraud around and victimize citizens. One night at 1:00 am I was showing my girlfriend at the time my house I grew up in. As I turned into the neighborhood, a car behind me blacked out their lights, maneuvered to my driver’s side and tried to force me over. I saw a gang of Hispanics with shaved heads with all their eyes locked on me. I flung my Glock .45 out the window and blinded them with my 300 lumen tactical light. All I heard was “Get the fuck outta here foo, he got a gun!” They punched it passed me, and I made a swift U-turn to put distance between them and I. In my rearview mirror, I saw them crash into the curb and run up on the grass. My gun diffused that situation without firing a shot, and it was over in mere seconds. I can only imagine what would have happened to me and my girlfriend if I didn’t have a gun.

My older brother is poor because he’s a welder and can’t afford to live in a nice neighborhood. He often works night shifts, and was walking through the parking lot of his apartment, and looked over at a group of gang members partying and carrying on in the parking lot. One of them yelled out, “What the fuck you lookin at homes?” My brother said nothing, and just kept heading over to his apartment. 10 of them followed him saying “Let get this bitch”, and my brother made his way to the top of his staircase, spun around and pulled a 357 magnum on them and warned them all to get back. As they retreated they warned him they were going to get him. He called me at 3:00 am, and I stood in his apartment at the window with a .223 assault rifle and stood guard while he unpacked his apartment and moved out that night. He was understandably very angry and upset, because he just wanted to go to sleep and ended up having to stuff everything he owns into his car and abandon his apartment; simply for looking over at someone.

One night I was sitting at a taco stand, all by my lonesome at 9:00 pm, and I watched a suspicious looking person approach my truck from 50 yards down the street, and walked right up to my window. As he neared my truck, I saw him put his right hand in his pocket, look around to see if no one was looking, and when he looked backed at me at my window he had a Glock pointed in his face. Tis tis … he was too slow on the draw, and I told him to get the fuck away from me before I blow his head clean off. Did I over-react? I don’t think so. As I was getting my tacos, he gathered up four of his buddies and they were all throwing gang signs at me from the corner. I pulled my gun again, stood in front of the taco stand, said nothing, stared them down, and they all politely walked away.

The thugs in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

[GroobySteven]

The thugs in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

Yes YOU have. You seem no different. You seem to have a thug mentality.

[InHouston]

For people that supports Zimmerman here's the million dollar comment I will make.
You sit here and try to logically show Zimmerman was right in doing what he did and that is he shot and killed an unarmed man.

For you supporters who support him, HOW WOULD YOU REACT IF HE KILLED YOUR CHILD IN THE SAME INCIDENT WITHOUT NOTHING CHANGING AS HE DID TRAYVON?

I know if it was me it wouldn't sit well as roses I would be one angry motha fucka!!!

If you're hanging around with a hoodie on your head, and loitering around in front of people's houses in a crime-ridden community, you're going to make those citizens nervous because you look and are acting like a lookout. First off, don't take off running because that's what criminals do, and two, don't jump on someone and start beating them up for asking "What are you doing here?" If you look and are not acting right, citizens have the right to confront you to see who you are and what you're doing. Zimmerman already had the call to the police, so he wasn't hunting Treyvon down.

Anyway ... Treyvon's mom should have taught her son not to hang around in the neighborhood looking and acting suspiciously, and draw attention to himself from citizens; especially a Neighborhood Watch Captain. In case you people don't know your American History, that is how the first police department was formed. Citizens had to fend for themselves and keep watch on their own neighborhoods, until crime spiraled out of their control, and the first police department was formed in New York City.

Zimmerman will walk from this case.

[InHouston]

If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

Good point! Treyvon should have never taken off running. Zimmerman wasn't trying to rob him. All he had to say was "Hey man I live here. I'll wait for the police and we can talk this out with them", and he would still be alive. Treyvon acted like a little thug is what he did.

[giovanni_hotel]

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.

[giovanni_hotel]

You say what Trayvon should of done InHOuston because you have a piece. If Trayvon was able to legally carry, I doubt he runs either.

But from the 7-11 surveillance video, Martin looks nervous to me even being out at night in a neighborhood he's unfamiliar. No person in their right mind follows the 'authority' of some stranger who IMO looks gang affiliated in the middle of the night who's been following them for three blocks.

Just the same way you made a read on some dude who was approaching your car with his hand down his pants, Trayvon had to decide whether or not this stranger was out to do him harm, or was just a responsible, concerned adult who wanted to know what he was doing in the neighborhood.

Even the Sanford detective on this case said Zimmerman could have defused this entire situation by announcing 'I'm a member of the neighborhood watch and was curious to know who you were?', instead of telling Trayvon, 'what are you doing here,' after following him for several minutes.

[Stavros]

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

It is the lack of respect for human life that you exhibit which I find disturbing; there are many ways of arresting someone suspected of a crime, announcing in advance your intention to murder someone doesn't sound like self-defence to me. Would you replace a Beware of the Dog sign with a One More Step and You Are Dead?

As for Zimmerman, as I said before, whats the point of having a Neighbourhood Watch volunteer if he doesn't know the neighbours?

[zulusierra]

Just a reflection from far away, but if this thread with all the endless speculation is in any way representative, it's hard to see how anyone in this situation can get a fair trial. Jury selection could go on for weeks.

You are correct.

And if they do happen to find a jury pool that has truly not heard anything about the case, that does not say much for the jury. It would basically mean the individual neither reads or keeps abreast of current events. (Unless they have been out of the country or "living off the grid").

[InHouston]

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

It's certainly not JUST guns. America for whatever reasons is more violent than some other countries but guns a huge factor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-ehrlich/uk-gun-ownership-up-deaths-down_b_1209967.html

"Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/25/gun-ownership-firearms-certificates?INTCMP=SRCH"

In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.


Cowboys.


Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country. You seem to forget that we border Mexico where cartels are delivering tons of drugs and distributing those drugs all over this nation. And the post-pubescent minority brats in our society are more than happy to help them out for quick cash. There is a major crime epidemic in this country and it is not because of guns. It is because of drugs, and the thug culture who embraces the idea that going to prison is a badge of honor, and the more violent you are, the more upward-mobile you will be in your local gang.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America. They know it, and they’ll never admit it. Every time someone stands up to them, the minority community flings out the “race card”, when they’re the ones causing and exasperating the problem.

I like black people. In fact, my wife and I were at our neighbor’s eating crawfish with black neighbors of ours last night. We had no problems, and we enjoyed their company, because they work for a living. One is a nurse, and one is a waitress. They hate what they’re own people are doing, and were bitching about it for hours on end.

Now, call it what you will. All I sat and listened to for hours from these black neighbors of mine who cooked 100 pounds of crawfish, was those black people complaining endlessly about “All the stupid niggas around here who don’t know how to act.” And it’s fucking true. They don’t, and they do it daily.

They’re words, from black people, and from them … not mine. That’s the reality. I watch them every day, going up and down the streets and in our local stores, acting fucking stupid, bobbing around, lipping off to people, starting shit, car-jacking and robbing people in their homes, and all the stupid liberals stand up and say “It’s the man”. Bullshit!

We didn’t do shit to them. They’re always fucking with everyone around them, and starting altercations with people, talking shit, acting like complete assholes everywhere they go, shooting at cops on a daily basis now, and somehow it’s the white communities’ fault.

That’s their fucking problem.

One day, I awoke at 8:00 am to find a black guy lurking around in my backyard. He wanted to break in, but my bars, unbeknownst to him, saved his life. He was about to hop my fence and break into my neighbor’s house behind me; an elderly black couple with no guns and no way to defend themselves. I cracked 5 gunshots over his head and sent him off running. I went to my neighbor’s house behind me and told him what happened. He’s black, and a retired engineer and he asked me quote unquote, “Let me ask you a question. Was it one of those stupid-ass niggers down the street in those Section-8 apartments?”

It is what it is.

Don’t believe me? Listen to the litany of complaints from their own people.

http://youtu.be/f3PJF0YE-x4

[InHouston]

Now you notice, in Chris Rock's audience, no one is getting angry and most of them are black and laughing and agreeing with them. They know what they're people are doing to this country.

[InHouston]

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.


My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

[zulusierra]

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

I understand why you would think this was,but no.

Between taking weapons carry classes taught by my local Sheriffs Dept., and serving 4 years in the Marines, I learned one of the most important responsibilities of being armed is having a plan in advance. There is no way to train otherwise. Do you really want un-trained people (such as Zimmerman) running around with no idea how they should react in a situation making judgments on pure adrenaline?

In a high-stress situation it's good to be able to fall back on training and "muscle memory". Basically, if you make the decision to be armed, you owe it to yourself and the rest of society to consider any situations that might arise and how you should react beforehand.

I also don't think you have very much understanding of firearms if you think you can just "disable" someone. You either use deadly force or you don't. Period. It's not like the movies. It's not as easy as James Bond makes it look.

[giovanni_hotel]

My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

If it's that bad where you live, you should try to relocate. You sound pathological.

And it's a shame that you associate criminal behavior with RACE or ETHNICITY, and don't take any other factors into consideration, such as education, environment and socioeconomic background.

Any Black person who wholesale trashes ALL Black people by not making any distinction and uses racial epithets on top of it all, I wouldn't quote as speaking for truth in the Black community.


Be specific so you don't sound like a racist. Unless you don't give a fuck.
There is a criminal underclass in the Black/Hispanic/ and OMG the White community as well.

If you live in a major metropolitan area, the former two groups probably affect you more.

And Chris Rock is criticizing and element within the Black community, he's not generalizing ALL Black people, which is what you do InHouston by being too non-specific.

[maddygirl]

If it's that bad where you live, you should try to relocate. You sound pathological.

And it's a shame that you associate criminal behavior with RACE or ETHNICITY, and don't take any other factors into consideration, such as education, environment and socioeconomic background.

Any Black person who wholesale trashes ALL Black people by not making any distinction and uses racial epithets on top of it all, I wouldn't quote as speaking for truth in the Black community.


Be specific so you don't sound like a racist. Unless you don't give a fuck.
There is a criminal underclass in the Black/Hispanic/ and OMG the White community as well.

If you live in a major metropolitan area, the former two groups probably affect you more.

And Chris Rock is criticizing and element within the Black community, he's not generalizing ALL Black people, which is what you do InHouston by being too non-specific.
You're right, giovanni, every race has their problems and nobody can associate a whole race of people with criminal activity because that's just the wrong. The problem I have is that it seems like society is more tolerant with black people acting racist towards white people than white people acting that way towards black people. That's what upsets me. I've seen it time and time again and it's just wrong. Just because someone is black doesn't give them the right to act racist, I don't care what anyone says. If people really want racism to cease they need to stop acting racist.

[InHouston]

Yes YOU have. You seem no different. You seem to have a thug mentality.

Hey Seanchai?

I’m a paying member of your site, and have been for over a decade, and I’m about gnat’s-ass from terminating my membership with you. I’m lining your pocket with my own money. I’m the one who years ago, wrote your staff a personal message requesting you to tear down your Bush-bashing propaganda on your site because I didn’t want to see it, and you did it out of customer appreciation; which I appreciated and decided to remain a member. Remember me? That was me who wrote that request years ago.

You think I’m a thug? I’m your customer. This is a video I compiled in defense of black people who earned their freedom when they were given the right to bear arms against their oppressors in the South. We did not start the slave problem here in America. Native Africans kidnapped their own people from villages, held them in slave fortresses on the coast of Africa and sold them off to the Spanish Slave Ships of Spain. Black and brown people brought slavery to South and North America out of greed. We didn’t! White people had nothing to do with it. We inherited this awful system of slavery, and the civil war in America ended it with scores of dead Americans, black and white, laying and rotting in the fields for freedom! We are the only country that took a stand on enslaving innocent men, women, and children, and even armed slaves on the run from the South to fight against their masters who Lincoln personally credited black people with “turning the tide of the war”.

http://youtu.be/glwAIS73QpU (http://youtu.be/glwAIS73QpU)

Black people in this nation have lost their damned minds. I saw this video on the Africa Channel, from a country whose mothers personally strap their babies to their backs and carry them all day long so they’re kids won’t endure the anxiety of separation from a mother’s bond during their formative years. In America, all the music you hear is from brats who talk about shooting, killing, robbing, and defending their hood; something they don’t even personally own. In Africa, they write rich music about family and harmony. In this video, the artist is singing in his native African language about “Peace in the family, when there’s peace in your heart.” Black people in this nation should go back to their roots and learn from their own people who have been mowed down in the streets by the hundreds of thousands with machetes, simply because they belonged to a different tribe. I’ve worked with Native Africans who lived in mud-huts in Africa. They are the most intelligent, and well-balanced and polite people you could meet, because they grew up with strong family bonds. The black youth here in America, because of this welfare state they live under, are completely imbalanced and out of control. That is not America’s fault. That is the fault of the families they were raised in.

http://youtu.be/CW-13_XoKMc

[jamesedwards]

Are you serious? Houston Trayvon as it has been explain wasn't DOING ANYTHING CRIMINALLY!!! He was just returning from the store. The investigator said he had a right to be there, where are you getting this he's looking suspicious? you're telling me a person don't have the right to run they must walk at all times? This sounds just as ridiculous as Geraldo saying he shouldn't have worn a hoodie, that shit is insanity. Someone here even made a stupid remark about "IF TRAY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED HE WOULD BE ALIVE" what type of logical thinking is that? What does that have to do with the dam case?

He wasn't loitering, DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF LOITERING? He HAD A PURPOSE THERE, HIS FATHER LIVED THERE!!! He ducked for rain shelter as we have all done in our life, is that a crime? Hell no. You people tend to forget that. Giovanni put up a link and it says:

"He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived."

So again WHERE DOES YOUR SUSPICIOUS OUTPUT COME FROM? Curtis Silva head of the Guardian Angels said it best "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND", Zimmerman was delusional at best, on a serious mission to catch someone.

Why isn't any of you on Zimmerman side taking account and I am sick of even myself having to state over and over. The neighborhood watch rules are 1. Don't carry a weapon 2. Don't engage anyone call 911. Zimmerman the self proclaimed captain BROKE BOTH!!!

Now new reports of a woman calling Zimmerman a racist, and a co-worker saying Zimmerman was acting a fool with him. This coincides with Zimmerman assaulting police and having two counts yet he is freed? WTF Is really going on here. The police in NYC is killing men for less, and ironically they are mostly African american and Hispanic people WITHOUT WEAPONS. So here's a man who got the chance to assault police and not do any time? What the hell is going on here? The man has a violent past that is a FACT. it's no my opinion on the matter.

It's funny the damming evidence piling up on Zimmerman but yet people are saying the prosecutors case is diminishing, that is the craziest shit I am seeing. Investergators know if Zimmerman would of stayed in his car Tray would be alive. When the dispatcher asked Zimmerman where would he be so he could point the cops in Tray's direction they asked him to wait at the mailbox, at first Zimm agreed then he flipped and said "UMMUMM HAVE THEM CALL ME" WTF!!! That lets me know he was basically saying fuck the police I am going after this guy. How do I equate that? Because Zimm said this himself on tape "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY". Bammm! He has it fixed in his mind to get that person.

And you say Trayvon moms should have taught him.... WTF are you talking about? She don't even live there, and Trayvon has a right to walk just like anyone else to his father's house. No one thought this type of crazy shit would happen. Who knew Captain Crazy was carrying a fucking loaded weapon? Who did Zimm let know he was carrying? No one knew that shit, Zimmerman is a vigilante paranoid delusional motha fucka!!!

You seem to think Zimmerman is going to walk? Wow. Ok, we shall see




Anyway ... Treyvon's mom should have taught her son not to hang around in the neighborhood looking and acting suspiciously, and draw attention to himself from citizens; especially a Neighborhood Watch Captain. In case you people don't know your American History, that is how the first police department was formed. Citizens had to fend for themselves and keep watch on their own neighborhoods, until crime spiraled out of their control, and the first police department was formed in New York City.

Zimmerman will walk from this case.

[InHouston]

In case you didn't notice, did you notice how the music of Baaba Maal, an artist from Africa, is much more rich in content and message and harmoney than the trash you hear in America from the Black Community?

[InHouston]

Are you serious? Houston Trayvon as it has been explain wasn't DOING ANYTHING CRIMINALLY!!! He was just returning from the store. The investigator said he had a right to be there, where are you getting this he's looking suspicious? you're telling me a person don't have the right to run they must walk at all times? This sounds just as ridiculous as Geraldo saying he shouldn't have worn a hoodie, that shit is insanity. Someone here even made a stupid remark about "IF TRAY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED HE WOULD BE ALIVE" what type of logical thinking is that? What does that have to do with the dam case?

He wasn't loitering, DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF LOITERING? He HAD A PURPOSE THERE, HIS FATHER LIVED THERE!!! He ducked for rain shelter as we have all done in our life, is that a crime? Hell no. You people tend to forget that. Giovanni put up a link and it says:

"He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived."

So again WHERE DOES YOUR SUSPICIOUS OUTPUT COME FROM? Curtis Silva head of the Guardian Angels said it best "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND", Zimmerman was delusional at best, on a serious mission to catch someone.

Why isn't any of you on Zimmerman side taking account and I am sick of even myself having to state over and over. The neighborhood watch rules are 1. Don't carry a weapon 2. Don't engage anyone call 911. Zimmerman the self proclaimed captain BROKE BOTH!!!

Now new reports of a woman calling Zimmerman a racist, and a co-worker saying Zimmerman was acting a fool with him. This coincides with Zimmerman assaulting police and having two counts yet he is freed? WTF Is really going on here. The police in NYC is killing men for less, and ironically they are mostly African american and Hispanic people WITHOUT WEAPONS. So here's a man who got the chance to assault police and not do any time? What the hell is going on here? The man has a violent past that is a FACT. it's no my opinion on the matter.

It's funny the damming evidence piling up on Zimmerman but yet people are saying the prosecutors case is diminishing, that is the craziest shit I am seeing. Investergators know if Zimmerman would of stayed in his car Tray would be alive. When the dispatcher asked Zimmerman where would he be so he could point the cops in Tray's direction they asked him to wait at the mailbox, at first Zimm agreed then he flipped and said "UMMUMM HAVE THEM CALL ME" WTF!!! That lets me know he was basically saying fuck the police I am going after this guy. How do I equate that? Because Zimm said this himself on tape "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY". Bammm! He has it fixed in his mind to get that person.

And you say Trayvon moms should have taught him.... WTF are you talking about? She don't even live there, and Trayvon has a right to walk just like anyone else to his father's house. No one thought this type of crazy shit would happen. Who knew Captain Crazy was carrying a fucking loaded weapon? Who did Zimm let know he was carrying? No one knew that shit, Zimmerman is a vigilante paranoid delusional motha fucka!!!

You seem to think Zimmerman is going to walk? Wow. Ok, we shall see


Yep ... he'll walk. Trust me. He'll walk Scott-Free, and have to live in hiding for the rest of his life; for simply standing up for his hood.

Isn't that something you people write about on our walls in our communities with spray paint? You can do it, but when citizens stand up for their homes?

Whatever ... fucking stupid.


You can watch the story unfold for yourselves in the end.

[jamesedwards]

InHouston you keep saying Trayvon shouldn't have ran, wtf he didn't know Zimmerman, look at the clothes Zimmerman had on and people know those Hispanic gangs like MS-13 are out there and Tray see a Hispanic dude just say "WHAT YOU DOING AROUND HERE" that's like a gang member protecting his territory. You yourself talked about a gang of Hispanics coming up on you. I mean wtf are you really talking about here? It's dark and raining and a stranger out of no where I am suppose to have a convo with them and they are following me? I mean are you for real?

[Stavros]

Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country. You seem to forget that we border Mexico where cartels are delivering tons of drugs and distributing those drugs all over this nation. And the post-pubescent minority brats in our society are more than happy to help them out for quick cash. There is a major crime epidemic in this country and it is not because of guns. It is because of drugs, and the thug culture who embraces the idea that going to prison is a badge of honor, and the more violent you are, the more upward-mobile you will be in your local gang.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America. They know it, and they’ll never admit it. Every time someone stands up to them, the minority community flings out the “race card”, when they’re the ones causing and exasperating the problem.


You haven't asked the question, who is buying the cocaine and the marijuana that is at the core of the drug trade, the drug wars -and for that matter, where does Heroin come from? And who is buying it? The customers are in the US, right where you live, and they are preppies seeking a weekend thrill, rock musicians who can't live -or perform- without t, Wall St traders who can buy it at lunchtime, mum and dad and uncle charlie and the guy who just sold you a car. It is inevitable that poppy growers in Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to be in the Heroin mix, they don't grow poppies for heroin in London. If the 'thugs' you refer to had jobs, would they waste their time hanging around on street corners?

And who was President when your very own US of A through a covert operation was running drugs into the USA for the benefit of American users, in a decade that saw drug-related crimes go through the roof? Hmmmm, Ronald something, and I will give you a hint, it wasn't Ronald McDonald...

[Stavros]

I understand why you would think this was,but no.

Between taking weapons carry classes taught by my local Sheriffs Dept., and serving 4 years in the Marines, I learned one of the most important responsibilities of being armed is having a plan in advance. There is no way to train otherwise. Do you really want un-trained people (such as Zimmerman) running around with no idea how they should react in a situation making judgments on pure adrenaline?

In a high-stress situation it's good to be able to fall back on training and "muscle memory". Basically, if you make the decision to be armed, you owe it to yourself and the rest of society to consider any situations that might arise and how you should react beforehand.

I also don't think you have very much understanding of firearms if you think you can just "disable" someone. You either use deadly force or you don't. Period. It's not like the movies. It's not as easy as James Bond makes it look.

James Bond has a licence to Kill, in fiction. With all your training, you are telling me you can't shoot an intruder in the leg?

[jamesedwards]

You sound like a fucking gang member, and that story you told I DON'T BELIEVE THAT SHIT!!! AND I DON'T HAVE TO!!!

Fuck you mean WE PEOPLE... SPRAY PAINT? Are you stereo typing African descent people here in NYC with that bullshit? OUR WALLS IN OUR COMMUNITIES" Fuck is you talking about? I am not a gang member and I work and pay taxes like the next man, so how are you going to subliminally insinuate me or my people spray painting in YOUR COMMUNITY? I don't know where you live and could give less than a fuck!!!

We will see in the end what happens.


Yep ... he'll walk. Trust me. He'll walk Scott-Free, and have to live in hiding for the rest of his life; for simply standing up for his hood.

Isn't that something you people write about on our walls in our communities with spray paint? You can do it, but when citizens stand up for their homes?

Whatever ... fucking stupid.


You can watch the story unfold for yourselves in the end.

[giovanni_hotel]

America didn't 'inherit' slavery. This country invested heavily in it. Africans weren't sailing ships back and forth across the Atlantic with their cargo hulls filled with human cattle.

You're all over the place, InHouston.

Africans didn't capture their own people and sit on the Western shores of their continent waiting for Europeans to show up. Yes there Africans who were sold into slavery by rival tribes, but the majority of African salves were seized through force at the end of a musket barrel. No one forced slave traders to buy other human beings and sell them.
Remember that.

[GroobySteven]

Hey Seanchai?

I’m a paying member of your site, and have been for over a decade, and I’m about gnat’s-ass from terminating my membership with you. I’m lining your pocket with my own money. I’m the one who years ago, wrote your staff a personal message requesting you to tear down your Bush-bashing propaganda on your site because I didn’t want to see it, and you did it out of customer appreciation; which I appreciated and decided to remain a member. Remember me? That was me who wrote that request years ago.

You think I’m a thug? I’m your customer. This is a video I compiled in defense of black people who earned their freedom when they were given the right to bear arms against their oppressors in the South. We did not start the slave problem here in America. Native Africans kidnapped their own people from villages, held them in slave fortresses on the coast of Africa and sold them off to the Spanish Slave Ships of Spain. Black and brown people brought slavery to South and North America out of greed. We didn’t! White people had nothing to do with it. We inherited this awful system of slavery, and the civil war in America ended it with scores of dead Americans, black and white, laying and rotting in the fields for freedom! We are the only country that took a stand on enslaving innocent men, women, and children, and even armed slaves on the run from the South to fight against their masters who Lincoln personally credited black people with “turning the tide of the war”.

http://youtu.be/glwAIS73QpU (http://youtu.be/glwAIS73QpU)

Black people in this nation have lost their damned minds. I saw this video on the Africa Channel, from a country whose mothers personally strap their babies to their backs and carry them all day long so they’re kids won’t endure the anxiety of separation from a mother’s bond during their formative years. In America, all the music you hear is from brats who talk about shooting, killing, robbing, and defending their hood; something they don’t even personally own. In Africa, they write rich music about family and harmony. In this video, the artist is singing in his native African language about “Peace in the family, when there’s peace in your heart.” Black people in this nation should go back to their roots and learn from their own people who have been mowed down in the streets by the hundreds of thousands with machetes, simply because they belonged to a different tribe. I’ve worked with Native Africans who lived in mud-huts in Africa. They are the most intelligent, and well-balanced and polite people you could meet, because they grew up with strong family bonds. The black youth here in America, because of this welfare state they live under, are completely imbalanced and out of control. That is not America’s fault. That is the fault of the families they were raised in.

http://youtu.be/CW-13_XoKMc

Hmmm ... so essentially blackmailing me into not calling you a thug, is the way to go by appealing to my greed? I've never backed away from stating what I think is wrong or right and I'm not going to now. You make your own choices on where buy your entertainment. I don't buy Murdoch's newspapers as I don't like him, his politics or his policies - but I pay for Sky Sports as it's the only place to get my F1 and football. I don't like the fact Tom Cruise is a nutter Scientologist but I will watch his movies as I enjoy them. Your rhetoric about shooting people on your property make you little different from a thug - using violence to your own means - you may write better, you may be a different colour to those that you mean but you are part of the problem. I've stated, unfortuantely, if I lived in your states I would probably own a gun and yes, if someone was coming to harm me or my family, I would use that force - but you seem to take that even further, you seem to welcome the ability to use deadly force even if your life isn't under threat.

Your slavery post ... that's just ... almost unanswerable.
"White people had nothing to do with it." - seriously, you're not that naive are you? They had everything to do with it.

"The black youth here in America, because of this welfare state they live under, are completely imbalanced and out of control. That is not America’s fault. That is the fault of the families they were raised in. " - what got the black youth and their families to this dis-enfranchised state of mind? What are you doing to change it, as an individual or a group? You've contributed to creating these families upon families with no foundations in respect, proper upbringings and reasons to change. You've done this because it's where you need those people to be.

I stand by my what you called "Bush-bashing propaganda" by the way - 8 years of having an absolute joke for a President. His people milked you dry and you'll be paying for it for decades but you are correct, it doesn't have any place on an adult entertainment site, which is why I keep it off there. Hungangels is a different animal, it has a different makeup and you don't pay to be hear - I'm giving you a space to sound off, to retort and to put your point across and for the main, we give people a fairly long rope as long as they remain reasonably civil.

[GroobySteven]

In case you didn't notice, did you notice how the music of Baaba Maal, an artist from Africa, is much more rich in content and message and harmoney than the trash you hear in America from the Black Community?
I Feel Love - Donna Summer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TBmeK9Abg)

[jamesedwards]

As for Zimmerman, as I said before, whats the point of having a Neighbourhood Watch volunteer if he doesn't know the neighbours?

Great dam point!!! And the fact Zimmerman IS NOT PROFESSIONAL!!! Look at his 911 call saying profanity like he is really upset, like he is compelled to catch someone, saying things like "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY" and "FUCKING PUNKS" doesn't that sound like he had it in his mind that he was going to confront Tray? He was a self proclaimed watchmen and I bet he had it in his mind he was a dam cop on patrol. And for most of all THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH SHIT WAS NOT FUCKING ORGANIZED AT ALL!!!

[GroobySteven]

Great dam point!!! And the fact Zimmerman IS NOT PROFESSIONAL!!! Look at his 911 call saying profanity like he is really upset, like he is compelled to catch someone, saying things like "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY" and "FUCKING PUNKS" doesn't that sound like he had it in his mind that he was going to confront Tray? He was a self proclaimed watchmen and I bet he had it in his mind he was a dam cop on patrol. And for most of all THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH SHIT WAS NOT FUCKING ORGANIZED AT ALL!!!

I don't have the answer to this and can't be arsed looking ... was Zimmerman drug/alcohol tested when he was brought in, immediately after the shooting.

[GroobySteven]

Hey Yourdaddy:
Ok if you are not a thug (debatable on the semantics).
Are you a racist - or would you identify with being anti-black?
Is it just blacks or other races?

I rarely meet someone whom appears to be so racist but also "fairly" coherent and doesn't have to resort to calling people niggers, porch monkeys, coons, etc.

[theoryman]

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

Exactly.

IMO, the fact that he showed the other party that he was willing to use lethal force immediately made the other party reconsider their behavior.



I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life.

It is not a matter of 'doesn't give a fuck', it is a matter of 'been there, done that' .


And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

And that is your choice to make. To me, my property is worth more than your life.
My attitude is, if you are stupid enough to attack me or mine or try to steal from me, YOU made your choice. You took a gamble... and lost.

[zulusierra]

James Bond has a licence to Kill, in fiction. With all your training, you are telling me you can't shoot an intruder in the leg?

Any police or military or civilian training emphasizes shooting "center mass". There is a reason for that.

But the real question is, why do I give a fuck about some asshole who just broke in my home? I've got a family to worry about. I don't know their intentions. If they were brave enough to violate my home once, what's to say they won't do it again?

Is he gonna stand still and let me aim while I'm shaking from adrenaline?

If I do shoot him in the leg, how do I avoid the femoral artery?

A pistol round is not gonna immediately stop a determined or drugged up attacker. (most people who are shot don't die) He may die later in the hospital, but does me no good if he stabs or shoots me in the meantime.

A responsible weapon owner is not looking to kill. They are looking to stop the threat. That means a heart or central nervous system hit.

Again, most of what you've seen on tv about firearms is bullshit. They are not magical death rays.

[jamesedwards]

You seem to forget how this country was founded ON MURDER, GANGSHIP, COWBOYING, RAPE, SLAVERY, DISEASE, THEFT, KILLING, MAIMING, ETC!!! This Govt till this day is still doing it. As a matter of fact case brought up CIA help pump the drugs into gangs and into the hoods!!! So violence hasn't just taken over this country that violent shit BEEN HERE OVER 400 YEARS AGO!!! Fuck is you talking about?

Oh so you have African descent friends? LOL :dead:

So you say African descent and Hispanics cause all the problems in working class communities huh? Well lets take this to the white collar working class and see if they cause problems, take that shit as high as the president and bring it down to the average Caucasian.

Bush, the former president, is a murderer and a lying bastard, deemed by Hilary Cliton herself as the worse president ever!!! He and his cronies, made 911 in 2001, he was put in office and cheated with the votes because in 93 when the WTC didn't collapse like it was suppose to Bush and his top level cronies devised a plan. 911 was an inside job to cause a war, change the Patriot act etc. Collin Powell himself found out Bush lied about WMD and that's why he resigned. 80 million a month fucked up the economy of this country for 4-8 years in a war the country had no business going into. Fucking up jobs for people, along with the banks ripping off people with interest rates, I can go on, but yet African descent people and Hispanics are the problem? But this shit is Caucasian ran!!!

World Com and other companies that stole millions, WHITE COLLAR CRIME AT IT'S BEST, but yet African descent people and Hispanics are the problem? But this shit is Caucasian ran!!!


Wall Street corruption, I don't even want to get into that, but yet African descent people and Hispanics are the problem? But this shit is Caucasian ran!!!


CIA is found they are distributing drugs into the communities with rival gangs, but yet African descent people and Hispanics are the problem? But this shit is Caucasian ran!!!


Every time there needs to be a budget cut the first thing they hit is EDUCATION, why? Because THIS CAUCASIAN GOVT DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT AFRICAN DESCENT PEOPLE OR ANY OTHER MINORITIES!!! They want minorities to be ignorant, if they didn't first thing they would be doing is pumping back into education and knowing if you teach the youth we can have a better country, they give less than two's of a fuck!!! Then got the nerve to raise prices in college knowing dam well African descent and Hispanic people can't pay for that shit, but yet African descent people and Hispanics are the problem? But this shit is Caucasian ran!!!


You tend to make it out like African descent people and Hispanics are the problem in communities, like Caucasians don't commit crimes. Caucasians have put out statistics that Caucasians commit more crimes than African descent people yet more African descent people are 70% of the jail population!!!

You must be related to Zimmerman!!!



Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America.

I like black people. In fact, my wife and I were at our neighbor’s eating crawfish with black neighbors of ours last night. We had no problems, and we enjoyed their company, because they work for a living. One is a nurse, and one is a waitress. They hate what they’re own people are doing, and were bitching about it for hours on end.

[jamesedwards]

I don't have the answer to this and can't be arsed looking ... was Zimmerman drug/alcohol tested when he was brought in, immediately after the shooting.

From what a report said, he was not tested that's another thing people were angry about. They were also angry that the Samford Police Dept said he had a clean record which he didn't, sparked anger, but now it's said he was on some drugs for anxiety and insomnia.

[GroobySteven]

... said he was on some drugs for anxiety and insomnia.

Insomnia is related to paranoia.
I reckon there are a few people on this thread who don't sleep much.

[jamesedwards]

And who was President when your very own US of A through a covert operation was running drugs into the USA for the benefit of American users, in a decade that saw drug-related crimes go through the roof? Hmmmm, Ronald something, and I will give you a hint, it wasn't Ronald McDonald...

Ronald (MOTH FUCKING) Reagan, and here you have THE CRACK EPIDEMIC!!!

[theoryman]

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence?

It is called contingency planning. You plan and train your response for possibilitys.


If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

You obviously didn't read the part about surrendering. You are also a bit of an idiot if you equate 'breaking in' to 'stepping on the lawn'.


It is the lack of respect for human life that you exhibit which I find disturbing; there are many ways of arresting someone suspected of a crime, announcing in advance your intention to murder someone doesn't sound like self-defence to me. Would you replace a Beware of the Dog sign with a One More Step and You Are Dead?


I am not a cop. I am not 'arresting a suspect', I am stopping a crime in progress. Big difference. Look it up.

As to 'lack or respect for human life', I argue that since you, the criminal, don't respect your own life, why should I? YOU made the choice when you attacked/invaded me or mine.

--

[jamesedwards]

Insomnia is related to paranoia.
I reckon there are a few people on this thread who don't sleep much.

:dead::dead::dead: That's what Curtis Silva said, "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND"....

[jamesedwards]

I understand where THEORYMAN IS coming from when he says "AND THEY WILL DIE".

For me if I am talking against anyone that is going to attack me and mines I will use words like "SELF DEFENSE, PROTECT ME AND MINES" because my INTENTIONS it to protect and try to defuse the situation not escalate it on any level and I want to be on the right end and don't want no one outside looking in saying my intent was to kill. Saying they will die is totally different from I will use self defense.

[Stavros]

It is called contingency planning. You plan and train your response for possibilitys.
You obviously didn't read the part about surrendering. You are also a bit of an idiot if you equate 'breaking in' to 'stepping on the lawn'.
I am not a cop. I am not 'arresting a suspect', I am stopping a crime in progress. Big difference. Look it up.
As to 'lack or respect for human life', I argue that since you, the criminal, don't respect your own life, why should I? YOU made the choice when you attacked/invaded me or mine.
--

Contingency planning? I wonder where you live, you make it sound like Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan. I wonder if you walk around at 2am wearing night-vision goggles with an AK-47 over your shoulder. And you can't imagine some Texas dude who thinks anyone who walks on his lawn is a terrorist? And when I talk about the dignity of human life its you not the intruder who is in play, because if you are going to act the same way as a drug-drink-psychologically twisted freak does that make you any different? A spontaneous response to a sudden invasion is one thing, a calculated intention to kill, I suggest, is quite different, and that I find disturbing.

The big difference is I was not brought up in a culture where guns are normal, I have to accept that as part of the US even if I don't like it. Thing is, when I go to Canada, the culture is different again, and Canadians I know are appalled at what they read about what is happening just miles from where they live; and its not as if there is no crime in Canada, a point Michael Moore made in Bowling for Columbine.

[jamesedwards]

Whooooooooooaaaaaaa!!!

[theoryman]

I understand where THEORYMAN IS coming from when he says "AND THEY WILL DIE".

For me if I am talking against anyone that is going to attack me and mines I will use words like "SELF DEFENSE, PROTECT ME AND MINES" because my INTENTIONS it to protect and try to defuse the situation not escalate it on any level and I want to be on the right end and don't want no one outside looking in saying my intent was to kill. Saying they will die is totally different from I will use self defense.

Why does everybody seem to not see 'surrender on demand'?

IF YOU SURRENDER, I won't have to shoot. I don't want to shoot anybody.

But if it is a choice between me and/or what's mine or you... I don't know you and you will loose every time.

I may be a bit blunt, but I was taught that you don't carry a gun unless you are willing and able to use it. And you never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill.

I'm not willing to risk me or mine for you. If you force me to shoot, I will shoot center-mass and will continue to fire until you are no longer a threat.

--

[GroobySteven]

Why does everybody seem to not see 'surrender on demand'?

IF YOU SURRENDER, I won't have to shoot. I don't want to shoot anybody.

But if it is a choice between me and/or what's mine or you... I don't know you and you will loose every time.

I may be a bit blunt, but I was taught that you don't carry a gun unless you are willing and able to use it. And you never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill.

I'm not willing to risk me or mine for you. If you force me to shoot, I will shoot center-mass and will continue to fire until you are no longer a threat.

--

What if they turn around and run away?

[theoryman]

Contingency planning? I wonder where you live, you make it sound like Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan.


Southern, Lower Michigan.


I wonder if you walk around at 2am wearing night-vision goggles with an AK-47 over your shoulder.


Nope. No need. Most of my neighbors are armed and if any of us see someone sneaking around the fields, we go deal with it ourselves. Why waste the sheriffs time?


And you can't imagine some Texas dude who thinks anyone who walks on his lawn is a terrorist?


Maybe... But that is not me.


And when I talk about the dignity of human life its you not the intruder who is in play, because if you are going to act the same way as a drug-drink-psychologically twisted freak does that make you any different?

They made the choice. What part of personal responsibility don't you get? Don't attack me or mine and you have nothing to worry about.


A spontaneous response to a sudden invasion is one thing, a calculated intention to kill, I suggest, is quite different, and that I find disturbing.

A spontaneous response gets me killed. I'd prefer not to be killed... What part of 'surrender on demand' don't you get?


The big difference is I was not brought up in a culture where guns are normal, I have to accept that as part of the US even if I don't like it. Thing is, when I go to Canada, the culture is different again,...

And I read about the armed home invasions in Canada and more often in the UK and other parts of Europe where a gang breaks into a home while the owners are there and robbes and assaults them. And I can't understand how they just sit there and take it...

We don't have any real problem with home invasion in the US... Because the potential invaders know there is a good chance of getting killed...

It is a very different culture.

I have a friend in the UK... they put up with things over there that would start the Third American Revolution... TV licensing, gun laws, searches.
But as he says, there are things you colonials put up with that would have us in the streets... income taxes when not living in country, government telling us we can't travel to Cuba and so on...

When in Rome...

--

[theoryman]

What if they turn around and run away?

Depends on the exact situation.

Outside and all you have done is property damage, no reason or need to shoot. I'm not a cop and have no interest in trying to catch you.

Inside my home, if you do not follow my directions exactly, I will likely see you as a threat and respond accordingly.

Past that... Deadly force can be used in defense of life and property and to prevent the commission of a felony and/or to apprehend the felon 'in the act'.

In general, I don't stick my nose into other peoples business.

--

[GroobySteven]

Depends on the exact situation.

Outside and all you have done is property damage, no reason or need to shoot. I'm not a cop and have no interest in trying to catch you.

Inside my home, if you do not follow my directions exactly, I will likely see you as a threat and respond accordingly.

Past that... Deadly force can be used in defense of life and property and to prevent the commission of a felony and/or to apprehend the felon 'in the act'.

In general, I don't stick my nose into other peoples business.

--

So someone smashes your window, breaks in - then hears you coming and runs away ... and you shoot them.

[GroobySteven]

I have a friend in the UK... they put up with things over there that would start the Third American Revolution... TV licensing, gun laws, searches.
But as he says, there are things you colonials put up with that would have us in the streets... income taxes when not living in country, government telling us we can't travel to Cuba and so on...

When in Rome...

--

You don't travel much do you?

[Queens Guy]

From what a report said, he was not tested that's another thing people were angry about. They were also angry that the Samford Police Dept said he had a clean record which he didn't, sparked anger, but now it's said he was on some drugs for anxiety and insomnia.

It's also my understanding that Zimmerman was not tested for drugs/alcohol. Although, the Police could have asked for it or gotten a warrant for it. In their opinion, they decided not to ask for it.

Before bashing the Sanford P.D. too much, if they didn't think he was drunk or high, asking for the blood test may have caused Zimmerman to 'lawyer up'. Sanford P.D. was able to interview him, at least twice, without Zimmerman ever asking for a lawyer. Both at the police station and the next day, in daylight, on videotape. Getting him to talk was much more valuable than getting a blood test if they didn't think he was drunk. Hell, even if he was drunk, liquor loosens the lips and the videotape of the recording would show any future jury that he was drunk, anyway.They got Zimmerman to talk. A lot. To give him lots of opportunities to paint himself into a corner or to catch him in a lie.

Remember, too, that it was the Detective for Sanford P.D. that wanted to arrest Zimmerman at the conclusion of his investigation. The State Attorney didn't allow the Sanford P.D. to arrest Zimmerman.

After all of this recently released information is gone over, I think the opinion of the Sanford P.D. and the actions they took in conducting a good investigation will seem much better than it has originally been portrayed.

[Donkey]

So someone smashes your window, breaks in - then hears you coming and runs away ... and you shoot them.
As a black man, it pains me to see so many of my brothas getting shot and committing crimes, but let a nigga break into my house and try to run off with my goods and I'll bust a cap in his black ass. Or white ass or brown ass or whatever the case may be...

[GroobySteven]

As a black man, it pains me to see so many of my brothas getting shot and committing crimes, but let a nigga break into my house and try to run off with my goods and I'll bust a cap in his black ass. Or white ass or brown ass or whatever the case may be...

Then you'll go to prison, right? Where you might be getting something other than a cap ...

[buttslinger]

but let a nigga break into my house and try to run off with my goods and I'll bust a cap in his black ass.

When I lived in a poorer neighborhood, the little kids used to just walk in my house. One time I ran down the stairs making scarey noises, and they all screamed and ran out, but I didn't shoot any. I did get burglarized twice though. Teens.

[Donkey]

Then you'll go to prison, right? Where you might be getting something other than a cap ...
No. In many states in the U.S., the law allows for use of deadly force to protect your personal property. In some states, deadly force is allowed to protect the personal property of others too.

[buttslinger]

No. In many states in the U.S., the law allows for use of deadly force to protect your personal property. In some states, deadly force is allowed to protect the personal property of others too.

Yep.

[jamesedwards]

I don't wanna get into it about the Sanford Dept. That's another story on it's own, put it this way I DON'T TRUST THEIR ASSES" and I will leave it at that.

YOu see I find some thing strange about that, Long Island man in NYC not to long ago, was threatened by over 20 individuals he said was gang related, words flew, then he fired 4 shouts into the ground as a warning, he has a license and everything. HE GOT ARRESTED!!! Mind you he didn't kill anyone.

This is what the people are talking about with Zimmerman he should of been arrested he even admitted he shot Tray and said self defense, ok take this jail cell until we investigate your claim, until then you sit behind bars. If they would of did that I think the outrage would be less. But this is like it was meant to happen to expose the Sanford dept because people have been having problems with them. How do Zimmerman in the past get off from assaulting police from their town? That even set the fire higher after that came out.


It's also my understanding that Zimmerman was not tested for drugs/alcohol. Although, the Police could have asked for it or gotten a warrant for it. In their opinion, they decided not to ask for it.

Before bashing the Sanford P.D. too much, if they didn't think he was drunk or high, asking for the blood test may have caused Zimmerman to 'lawyer up'. Sanford P.D. was able to interview him, at least twice, without Zimmerman ever asking for a lawyer. Both at the police station and the next day, in daylight, on videotape. Getting him to talk was much more valuable than getting a blood test if they didn't think he was drunk. Hell, even if he was drunk, liquor loosens the lips and the videotape of the recording would show any future jury that he was drunk, anyway.They got Zimmerman to talk. A lot. To give him lots of opportunities to paint himself into a corner or to catch him in a lie.

Remember, too, that it was the Detective for Sanford P.D. that wanted to arrest Zimmerman at the conclusion of his investigation. The State Attorney didn't allow the Sanford P.D. to arrest Zimmerman.

After all of this recently released information is gone over, I think the opinion of the Sanford P.D. and the actions they took in conducting a good investigation will seem much better than it has originally been portrayed.

[GroobySteven]

No. In many states in the U.S., the law allows for use of deadly force to protect your personal property. In some states, deadly force is allowed to protect the personal property of others too.

Cowboys.

[zulusierra]

No. In many states in the U.S., the law allows for use of deadly force to protect your personal property. In some states, deadly force is allowed to protect the personal property of others too.

He's right. In Georgia, once someone attempts to make unlawful entry (kicking in door, putting arm through kitchen window) he's at the homeowners mercy.

In a lot of counties the sheriff will just be thankful there's one less piece of shit his officers have to deal with.

[zulusierra]

As a black man, it pains me to see so many of my brothas getting shot and committing crimes, but let a nigga break into my house and try to run off with my goods and I'll bust a cap in his black ass. Or white ass or brown ass or whatever the case may be...

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss300/zulusierra/1315439491833.png

[Donkey]

Cowboys.
The U.S. was never intended to be a police state. These laws support our foundation, which is based upon a lot of rights, freedom, and personal responsibility, which, in turn, requires a bit more personal protection than some are comfortable with. Personally, I wouldn't trade our system for any other in the world. And I've been around a bit.

[GroobySteven]

The U.S. was never intended to be a police state. These laws support our foundation, which is based upon a lot of rights, freedom, and personal responsibility, which, in turn, requires a bit more personal protection than some are comfortable with. Personally, I wouldn't trade our system for any other in the world. And I've been around a bit.

The US people have less rights, less freddom and less personal responsibility than almost any other Westernised country. They're the only ones who don't know it.
I've been around a lot.

I love the USA, I loved living there and I love traveling there - but a lot of it is broken.

[buds]

Not to change the topic but does anybody know these four tough guys? Maybe jesse or al or even nobama might want to lend a hand in helping a soldier in need.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO: Blacks Brutally Beat Army Soldier In Tampa - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Mc2IZvyOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[InHouston]

Hmmm ... so essentially blackmailing me into not calling you a thug, is the way to go by appealing to my greed? I've never backed away from stating what I think is wrong or right and I'm not going to now. You make your own choices on where buy your entertainment. I don't buy Murdoch's newspapers as I don't like him, his politics or his policies - but I pay for Sky Sports as it's the only place to get my F1 and football. I don't like the fact Tom Cruise is a nutter Scientologist but I will watch his movies as I enjoy them. Your rhetoric about shooting people on your property make you little different from a thug - using violence to your own means - you may write better, you may be a different colour to those that you mean but you are part of the problem. I've stated, unfortuantely, if I lived in your states I would probably own a gun and yes, if someone was coming to harm me or my family, I would use that force - but you seem to take that even further, you seem to welcome the ability to use deadly force even if your life isn't under threat.

Your slavery post ... that's just ... almost unanswerable.
"White people had nothing to do with it." - seriously, you're not that naive are you? They had everything to do with it.

"The black youth here in America, because of this welfare state they live under, are completely imbalanced and out of control. That is not America’s fault. That is the fault of the families they were raised in. " - what got the black youth and their families to this dis-enfranchised state of mind? What are you doing to change it, as an individual or a group? You've contributed to creating these families upon families with no foundations in respect, proper upbringings and reasons to change. You've done this because it's where you need those people to be.

I stand by my what you called "Bush-bashing propaganda" by the way - 8 years of having an absolute joke for a President. His people milked you dry and you'll be paying for it for decades but you are correct, it doesn't have any place on an adult entertainment site, which is why I keep it off there. Hungangels is a different animal, it has a different makeup and you don't pay to be hear - I'm giving you a space to sound off, to retort and to put your point across and for the main, we give people a fairly long rope as long as they remain reasonably civil.

Fine, I'm cancelling my account with you. Your site sucks lately anyway. There's better content on the free tube channels than what you post up every Saturday morning.

[theoryman]

So someone smashes your window, breaks in - then hears you coming and runs away ... and you shoot them.

If he is running off with my property, likely.

And I won't go to prison... Home invasion, in Michigan, is a Major Felony.

--

[theoryman]

He's right. In Georgia, once someone attempts to make unlawful entry (kicking in door, putting arm through kitchen window) he's at the homeowners mercy.

In a lot of counties the sheriff will just be thankful there's one less piece of shit his officers have to deal with.

Here, the sheriff's department will come take the report and offer you some support... cause even when you are in the right, it is a big deal, mentally, to kill someone.

--

[theoryman]

YOu see I find some thing strange about that, Long Island man in NYC not to long ago, was threatened by over 20 individuals he said was gang related, words flew, then he fired 4 shouts into the ground as a warning, he has a license and everything. HE GOT ARRESTED!!! Mind you he didn't kill anyone.


That is much more of an NYC issue... They have laws against the discharge of a firearm... for any reason.

Out where I live, if the cops were called because I fired into the ground, they would laugh at the caller.

Far as they are concerned, if I didn't shoot at someone, there is no issue at all.

I can't say about Martin/Zimmerman case. I wasn't there and I don't have enough info to even have an opinion.

But I do know this. Up here, in general, if you are a local with a permit, you will NOT be arrested unless you are intoxicated or there is something major out of whack with your account of events.

Why?

Because you are a local and they know exactly where to find you if they need to. Because, if you have passed the requirements for a carry permit here in MI you KNOW your sheriff and he knows you. Because, in most counties, the sheriff signs off on the permits.

--

[theoryman]

You don't travel much do you?

Not anymore.

I spent a fair amount of time in Europe and the Middle East back in the 80's and early 90's.

Since the beginning of 'Security Theater', (showings every day at your local airport), I refuse to fly. This limits us a bit.

--

[jamesedwards]

Well alrighty Then :pumped::cheers: I heard that. MI seems like a good place to live if you wanna carry, I think North Carolina is the same.

I remember a guy tried to break in to a house right across the road from my families house where I visited, and the owner saw him running and bust a cap in him and he took off running, bloody but he got him. He was never caught and the owner that popped him was telling the story to the sherrifs and they were laughing up a storm, spitting tabacco, and just laughing, dudes were turning red. I couldn't believe it, I was like "DUDES IS LAUGHING WITH THE COPS AND THEY AREN'T ARRESTING HIM?" Boy oh boy lol that was a site to see, and he's African america that shot another African american. They shook hands and that was it. Dude never showed up as far as I knew again to rob homie.


That is much more of an NYC issue... They have laws against the discharge of a firearm... for any reason.

Out where I live, if the cops were called because I fired into the ground, they would laugh at the caller.

Far as they are concerned, if I didn't shoot at someone, there is no issue at all.

I can't say about Martin/Zimmerman case. I wasn't there and I don't have enough info to even have an opinion.

But I do know this. Up here, in general, if you are a local with a permit, you will NOT be arrested unless you are intoxicated or there is something major out of whack with your account of events.

Why?

Because you are a local and they know exactly where to find you if they need to. Because, if you have passed the requirements for a carry permit here in MI you KNOW your sheriff and he knows you. Because, in most counties, the sheriff signs off on the permits.

--

[jamesedwards]

That was a horrible beating and the thing is he was about to give the guy a dollar. They need to be found and charged and make sure it's the right guys. but it's going to be hard because he didn't recognize them they had on hoodies.

The headline said BLACKS, yet he said two were African americans and probably one Hispanic, yet the head line is BLACKS!


Not to change the topic but does anybody know these four tough guys? Maybe jesse or al or even nobama might want to lend a hand in helping a soldier in need.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO: Blacks Brutally Beat Army Soldier In Tampa - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Mc2IZvyOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[jamesedwards]

Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die'

A closer look at the witness statements and audio testimony taken in the immediate aftermath Trayvon Martin's death provides the first insight into George Zimmerman's behavior after he shot the unarmed teen.
A man listed as witness 13 was one of the first people to approach Zimmerman minutes after the shooting. He saw him bleeding from the back of the head and nose. Zimmerman asked the unidentified man to call his wife for him.

"Let her know what's happening, been involved in a shooting and will be held for questioning," the witness told the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. "He was more like, talking like he was having a hard time, looked like he just got his butt whipped ... not like he was in shock, not like, 'I can't believe I just shot someone,' but like, 'Just tell my wife I just shot someone,' like it was nothing."

The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.
"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die-204338831--abc-news-topstories.html

[jamesedwards]

Wow, and some say Prosecutors case is diminishing? Hmmmm we have to wait and see, things are looking up for the Prosecutors from what I see.

[Queens Guy]

Wow, and some say Prosecutors case is diminishing? Hmmmm we have to wait and see, things are looking up for the Prosecutors from what I see.

I'm not saying Zimmerman did the right thing. He should have stayed in his car.

But, add me to the list that think this material helps Zimmerman more than it helps the prosecution. You know from your work that Zimmerman only needs to establish a 'reasonable doubt'. I think he may have got there.

One thing about this case though, is that Zimmerman may be benefitting from the fact that so much of the picture painted by the media has turned out at least partially wrong. Those pee wee league football pictures look like a tiny tot. But, then we see the 7-11 video. Trayvon doesn't do anything wrong in the video, he' s just buying the skittles and iced tea, doesn't look like he's high or anything. But, he's not a tiny tot. He's taller than the clerk. If they had a fistfight, I'd bet on Trayvon winning. Maybe the clerk is really tiny, but that's the way it looks. Trayvon wasn't a tiny tot.

Also, NBC/MSNBC got caught pretty much making up stuff, with their edit of the 911 call. It was only 13 seconds, and they trimmed it down to 6 seconds, leaving out the part where the dispatcher asked for the race of the 'suspicious person'. It didn't save much time, but it made Zimmerman look worse than he was.

This is a compelling story. No need to make anything up. ABC went back and forth on the video from the night he was questioned. First it showed no wounds, then it did show wounds. CNN said Zimmerman said 'F-ing Coons' on his call to 911, then they said he said something else.

I think the media has inflamed emotions by not doing their job well. Just report the facts we know and hire analysts to go over the evidence. No need to make stuff up. If they had been reporting the story straight, saying they don't know when they don't know, maybe Zimmerman wouldn't seem to be benefitting.

[jamesedwards]

Yes if his defense can get the jury to believe that. Also yes Trayvon was tall but he was thin, there's nothing thick or threatening about Trayvon. If Trayvon was really a threat, Zimmerman had enough time to analyze if he could take him or not. Smart thing to do. But Zimmerman already knew big or small I GOT A GUN AND IT WILL CHOP HIM DOWN. So Zimmerman didn't care, he wanted to be a hero. I don't see this witness or the investigator helping Zimmerman, plus other things is going against Zimmerman. Again, self defense is the main course and the Prosecutors all they gotta do is show and prove, Zimmerman was the cause of everything and HE DID KILL Trayvon that's no doubt. The testimony of the investigator saying Zimmerman could of avoided this, just puts his self defense claim in the gutter. He had the chance to avoid it, but he chose to approach the situation, so that's what the Prosecutors are going for, and that will kill Zimmerman's self defense claim.


I'm not saying Zimmerman did the right thing. He should have stayed in his car.

But, add me to the list that think this material helps Zimmerman more than it helps the prosecution. You know from your work that Zimmerman only needs to establish a 'reasonable doubt'. I think he may have got there.

One thing about this case though, is that Zimmerman may be benefitting from the fact that so much of the picture painted by the media has turned out at least partially wrong. Those pee wee league football pictures look like a tiny tot. But, then we see the 7-11 video. Trayvon doesn't do anything wrong in the video, he' s just buying the skittles and iced tea, doesn't look like he's high or anything. But, he's not a tiny tot. He's taller than the clerk. If they had a fistfight, I'd bet on Trayvon winning. Maybe the clerk is really tiny, but that's the way it looks. Trayvon wasn't a tiny tot.

Also, NBC/MSNBC got caught pretty much making up stuff, with their edit of the 911 call. It was only 13 seconds, and they trimmed it down to 6 seconds, leaving out the part where the dispatcher asked for the race of the 'suspicious person'. It didn't save much time, but it made Zimmerman look worse than he was.

This is a compelling story. No need to make anything up. ABC went back and forth on the video from the night he was questioned. First it showed no wounds, then it did show wounds. CNN said Zimmerman said 'F-ing Coons' on his call to 911, then they said he said something else.

I think the media has inflamed emotions by not doing their job well. Just report the facts we know and hire analysts to go over the evidence. No need to make stuff up. If they had been reporting the story straight, saying they don't know when they don't know, maybe Zimmerman wouldn't seem to be benefitting.

[natina]

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23P2TdQXfE&feature=related)


do not confront or pursue and expect to use SYG

Teen's Killing Stirs Debate on 'Stand Your Ground' Law - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5EF-KjwKP8&feature=related)



Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1143073#post1143073) CAUCASIAN PEOPLE FOR ZIMMERMAN'S ARREST AND CONVICTION

OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS DESCRIBES TRAY VON MARTIN'S LAST MOMENT - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l09Sur7xyg&amp;amp;feature=related)


STUDENT RALLY AT SEMINOLE COUNTY CRIMINAL CENTER - 3/19/2012

CROWD OF OUTRAGED CITIZENS AND STUDENT LAWYERS DEMAND GEORGE ZIMMERMANS ARREST AND NEW STATE PROSECUTOR FOR CASE AT THE SANFORD COURTHOUSE.

THE OUTRAGED MOTHER OF WITNESS SPEAKS ON THE CHILLING MOMENTS JUST BEFORE TRAYVON MARTIN'S DEATH IN HER DAUGHTERS BACKYARD




Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1143075#post1143075) 911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related)


Originally Posted by natina http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1143060#post1143060) amydaly will respond like fox news to any important issue in the black community.


facts stated in the affidavit about who was not calling for help and who the only OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION WOULD BE CALLING AND SCREAMING FOR HELP AS THERE WAS NO OTHERS OUT SIDE BUT ZIMMERMAN AND MTRAYVON MARTIN

AMYDALTY WILL CONTINUE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS JUST TO TROLL AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES.


amydaly will respond like fox news to any important issue in the black community.

facts stated in the affidavit about who was not calling for help and who the only OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION WOULD BE CALLING AND SCREAMING FOR HELP AS THERE WAS NO OTHERS OUT SIDE BUT ZIMMERMAN AND MTRAYVON MARTIN

AMYDALT=Y WILL CONTINUE TO DENY THE OBVIOUS JUST TO TROLL AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES.

Nancy explains the law in Trayvon death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGjNcB9l6k&feature=related)

Curtis Sliwa on what Zimmerman did wrong - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494D9VJwrMk&feature=related)


New Trayvon Martin Witness speaks to CNNs Anderson Cooper - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYf2xTvJpzU&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

Well dam Natina just shut down the whole site with what she put up I was to put up what she had earlier.

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtbknt2VhE&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

Lets say Trayvon did fight Zimmerman, fact is Trayvon had no gun, Zimmerman should of fought force with force not a gun shot. Listen to what the first video that Natina put up. I All this evidence for the prosecutor, I don't see this diminishing. The Prosecutors got evidence also.

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder

[jamesedwards]

And I keep saying the most critical point is that 911 call where they told him not to engage and another critical evidence is Trayvon's girlfriend log they have in their possession. Someone actually had the nerve to say she's not a witness, her testimony is nothing but hear say, get the fuck outta here with that, obviously they don't know what here say means in the court of law and how it stands. It's not here say because she is not getting the info from another person, she is actually a witness and the last person to talk to Trayvon, her testimony is critical. And Papantonio is saying the same thing I am saying, and Nancy, the investigator, etc. That investigator is a step on Zimmerman's neck also because he said "ZIMMERMAN COULD OF AVOIDED THIS SITUATION" that right there is a slam dunk!!!