17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[natina]

new prosecution evidence
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-trial-evidence-mounting-16585187

[natina]

Texas man gets 40 years in stand-your-ground case ,zimmerman like case
HOUSTON -- Retired Texas firefighter Raul Rodriguez, armed with a handgun and video camera, had claimed he was standing his ground and had no choice but to use deadly force when he fatally shot his unarmed neighbor after confronting him about a noisy party.

A jury decided otherwise Wednesday, sentencing Rodriguez to 40 years in prison for killing the neighbor, Kelly Danaher, a 36-year-old elementary school teacher. Prosecutors said they are hopeful the punishment will stop others from settling matters with violence and trying to use Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law as a defense.

"I think it sends a clear message that this was not a case of stand-your-ground," said prosecutor Kelli Johnson. "And I think from his behavior, his intent, the provocation ... shows that this had ... nothing to do with self-defense."

Rodriguez, who faced up to life in prison for the 2010 killing, will be eligible for parole in 20 years. Jurors deliberated about five hours Wednesday before reaching their verdict. The same jury convicted him of murder on June 13.

His reference to standing his ground was similar to the claim made by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.

During closing arguments earlier Wednesday in the trial's punishment phase, Johnson referenced Zimmerman but told jurors that case was different from what Rodriguez was convicted of doing.

In a 22-minute video he recorded that night, Rodriguez can be heard telling a police dispatcher "my life is in danger now" and "these people are going to go try and kill me." He then said, "I'm standing my ground here," and fatally shot Danaher and wounded the other two men.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2870148/texan-in-stand-your-ground-case.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

[onmyknees]

This has pretty much become a one person crusade for you Natina. Hows about giving it a fucking break? Maybe you hadn't noticed in between your frantic copy and paste exercises, but Chicago is ablaze in gang violence to a level that would make Capone's Valentines Day Massacre look like play time, and here you are beating the same tired old drum. In American Jurisprudence after the arrest and bond hearing, the defense and prosecution prepare for trial. In the interim, there will be news reports that favor the defense, and others the prosecution....and why would anyone believe any of it after the media malpractice thus far? Why don't you save all your energy and bandwidth for when people are actually under oath?

[giovanni_hotel]

Chill out. I appreciate the updates.

[Prospero]

"... media malpractice thus far" declares Miss OMK... presumably decrying the admitted liberal bias of MSNBC,....and yet in other places praises the royal family of misrepresentation Fox News.

[GroobySteven]

Chill out. I appreciate the updates.

Me too.
If you don't want to look, just "ignore"

[Silcc69]

Makes me wonder if OMK sent in some donations to Zimmerman. We already know that right wing nutcases are donating him money.

[Queens Guy]

"... media malpractice thus far" declares Miss OMK... presumably decrying the admitted liberal bias of MSNBC,....and yet in other places praises the royal family of misrepresentation Fox News.

It's more than just the bias from those on the opinion shows, and it's absolutely fine for the 'opinion' side to have opinions. That's why people watch those hosts. The problem is when it's coming from the supposed 'news' part of the media.

NBC/MSNBC altered the tape of the 911 call to make it sound worse than it was. This case is compelling and newsworthy. There's no need to make anything up.

CNN did the 'we heard him say a slur', then said, 'um, actually, we listened again and there isn't any slur'.

ABC said 'the tape show no injury at all' and then changed it to 'well, um, it does actually show an injury. Maybe not a bad one, but yeah, it is an injury.'

Just dig for facts. Conduct interviews. Let all sides say their piece.

[GroobySteven]

Just dig for facts. Conduct interviews. Let all sides say their piece.

That would be lovely ... but it doesn't make money :-(

[Token Williams-Black]

Me too.
If you don't want to look, just "ignore"
I appreciate your avatar...and I'll never ignore it.
:cheers:

[natina]

you just wat a fox/fix news version of the story

1.)
WARNING! BREAKING NEWS!:exposure to Fox News makes voters stupid, university study finds

2.)
Fox News Viewers Believe the Darndest Things, Study Finds


3.)
Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516

Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping



News reports are suggesting that later today the authorities in Florida will announce charges against Trayvon Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman. Coverage of this story was handled by Fox News in a manner that is revealing and offensive – and wholly unique to Fox News:







This is a journalistic lynching. And note, this is not Fox Nation. It is the mothership, Fox News. The editors at this alleged “news” network are demonstrating their overt hostility to both African-Americans and journalistic ethics. If this picture doesn’t finally establish the overarching prejudice of Fox, it’s hard to know what will. Their bias is so clearly being exercised with a zealotry that the Klan would shrink from. How do they get away with this?


This is a more impartial photo that does not disparage the victim (although it still is not as overtly cheerful as Zimmerman’s pic). You think they got a few complaints about the previous photo? They must have had a reason for changing it.


[Addendum] A couple of commenters have asserted (without proof) that the lighter picture of Trayvon was the one that was Photoshopped. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they are right and that the picture Fox used was not altered (at least by Fox). That does not change the fact that Fox made an editorial decision to use that picture. They had numerous pictures from which to choose of both Trayvon and Zimmerman, and they chose the most negative picture of Trayvon which they paired with the most positive picture of Zimmerman. That was not an accident. It was the result of deliberate editorial judgment. And it tells us everything we need to know about Fox’s editors.

There has also been some discussion as to whether making Trayvon look darker was inherently racist. Two points: 1) Making anyone look darker has the effect of making them look more sinister. And making the subject of a photo look more sinister, regardless of race, is blatant editorial bias. 2) Darker skinned African-Americans are not viewed more negatively by fair-minded people who are free of prejudice, but they are viewed more negatively by people predisposed to discriminate on the basis of race
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851



blah blah blah

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516

[natina]

VIDEO

BREAKING NEWS!; judge says zimmerman a flight risk,bail set at 1 million dollars.

(CNN) -- A Florida judge on Thursday set a $1 million bond with new restrictions on George Zimmerman, saying he believes the suspect may have been planning to flee the country to avoid prosecution in the killing of Trayvon Martin.
Judge Kenneth R. Lester Jr. found that Zimmerman's deceit over cash holdings at his first bond hearing in April was not enough to hold him without bail.
"This court has, thus far, declined to exercise its contempt powers and the state failed to prove that the defendant may be held without bond," the order said.
Zimmerman will have to post 10% of the $1 million -- or $100,000 -- to meet the requirement for bail.
But an even bigger challenge is finding a bail bond company that will work with the family on the requirement of $1 million in collateral, defense attorney Mark O'Mara said later Thursday. The family does "not have anywhere near" the collateral amount, according to the attorney.
"We are encouraged we can work this out," O'Mara said in a statement.
Donations to Zimmerman's legal defense fund have dropped significantly while Zimmerman has been jailed, O'Mara said.
"Supporters have told us they were concerned that the court would set such a high bond that getting George out of jail could risk wiping out the entire defense account. It appears that they were right. However, George needs an aggressive defense and to help with that he also needs to be out of jail with his wife and family assisting his legal team."
The fund has a $211,000 balance, but has $40,000 in payables for defense expenses.
"Paying bond and scheduled expenses would effectively wipe out the existing balance," O'Mara said.
O'Mara argued that Zimmerman should not be jailed because the state's case is weak and his claim of self-defense is strong.
The original bail of $150,000 was revoked last month after Lester learned Zimmerman and his wife, Shellie, had failed to disclose more than $150,000 in donations from the public.
The judge's order Thursday said that the new $1 million bond was not a punishment but an amount that assured the court that Zimmerman would not abscond.
Zimmerman has the money to pay for his release, the court said.
In his ruling, Lester wrote about the first bond hearing and noted an undisclosed second passport kept in Zimmerman's safe deposit box.
"Notably, together with the passport, the money only had to be hidden for a short time for him to leave the country if the defendant made a quick decision to flee," the judge said. "It is entirely reasonable for this court to find that, but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people's money."
Lester wrote the defendant's plans to flee were "thwarted."
Zimmerman, 28, is charged with second-degree murder in Martin's February 26 shooting death. Under Florida law, second-degree murder is a bondable offense.
What do you think about the judge's order? Sound off on CNN iReport (http://ireport.cnn.com/topics/7233)
Prosecutors had asked for bond to be denied or, if not, for it to be set at $1 million.
Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said the parents preferred that Zimmerman remain in jail, but "they respect the ruling of the court and the strong message that the judge sent that deference to judicial integrity is paramount to all court proceedings."
"Furthermore, they understand that this is not a sprint to justice, but a long journey to justice that they must bear for their son Trayvon," Crump said.
The order said the evidence shows that Zimmerman and his wife acted together to conceal their cash holdings during the original bond hearing.
"Under any definition, the defendant has (flouted) the system," the order said. "The defendant has tried to manipulate the system when he has been presented the opportunity to do so."
Investigator: Zimmerman missed opportunities to defuse situation (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html)
Lester imposed new restrictions on Zimmerman that he did not face when he was out on bond the first time.
Zimmerman must report to officials every two days, cannot open or maintain a bank account and cannot be on the property of an airport. He also cannot apply for or obtain a passport.
Zimmerman must abide by a curfew from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m., and like before, will be monitored electronically.
Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda argued before the judge last week that Zimmerman should remain in jail without bail because he was complicit in lying to the court and can't be trusted.
Forensic accountant Adam Magill testified that thousands of dollars in donated funds flowed into and out of Zimmerman's bank account in the days before the first bail hearing.
Magill said it appeared Zimmerman and his wife were speaking in code during recorded jailhouse telephone conversations about the amount of money involved. He also said that transferring funds between accounts could have been done to make it appear that Zimmerman had less money available for bail than he did.
De la Rionda reiterated that prosecutors believe Martin, a 17-year-old African-American, was an innocent victim who was confronted by Zimmerman without provocation.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[giovanni_hotel]

Isn't Zimmerman out on bail???
Why was he given bond anyway??? Keep his butt in jail until trial.

[natina]

zimmermans bail was revoked
Zimmerman spent 4th of July in prison in solitary confinement known also as protective custody

George Zimmerman's bail revoked



Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester ordered Zimmerman back to jail Friday during an afternoon court hearing. Zimmerman, who has been staying in an undisclosed location since he was released on bail April 23, has until Sunday at 2:30 p.m. to turn himself in.
His trial may not happen until 2013, his lawyer, Mark O'Mara, said.
Lester revoked the bond after a motion by the state prosecutor accused Zimmerman and his wife of lying to the court about their financial assets during his initial bond hearing April 20.
They said they had no money during that hearing, but Zimmerman and his wife had access to at least $135,000 that he raised through a website he set up before his bond hearing, the judge said.
http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/7923e488-6633-4b31-83f0-6d46668d7e04-trayvonx.jpg


"They were well aware of the money available," Lester said. "Mr. Zimmerman can't sit back and let his wife testify falsely … nor can he allow his attorney to stand up and make misrepresentations."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-01/zimmerman-trayvon-martin/55331072/1

[onmyknees]

You race obsessed wind bag. I don't think you've made 5 posts in the last year that weren't centered around race. You're incapable of anything else. You must lead a terribly pathetic life....sitting behind your lap top with a 5 o'clock shadow scowering the internet for racial turmoil so you can copy and paste it to our attention.

[Token Williams-Black]

You race obsessed wind bag. I don't think you've made 5 posts in the last year that weren't centered around race. You're incapable of anything else. You must lead a terribly pathetic life....sitting behind your lap top with a 5 o'clock shadow scowering the internet for racial turmoil so you can copy and paste it to our attention.

1. http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=68504
2. http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=51579
3. http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=51591
4. http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=65847
5. http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=63573

[buds]

George's bail was revoked
George spent 4th of July in prison in solitary confinement known also as protective custody


just to keep your pathetic obsession in check lets not forget martin spent the 4th of july in the ground.

[Token Williams-Black]

Soon Georgie Porgie will as well...

[onmyknees]

Soon Georgie Porgie will as well...



Will What? Spend 4th of July in the ground? WTF you sayin' ?

[buds]

Soon Georgie Porgie will as well...


just another stupid response in this thread.

[Token Williams-Black]

just another stupid response in this thread.

Yup, sure is.
:cheers:

[JenniferParisHusband]

<content deleted>

[GroobySteven]

just to keep your pathetic obsession in check lets not forget martin spent the 4th of july in the ground.

Welcome to the ban hammer.

[Token Williams-Black]

...and THAT'S what I meant by a stupid response in this thread...

[AmyDaly]

Welcome to the ban hammer.

Hopefully you are quick to ban the girls who troll this forum as well

[eccentricBlue]

This is the dumbest thread in Internet history...

[GroobySteven]

Hopefully you are quick to ban the girls who troll this forum as well

It wasn't that quick, I've been watching him for a while. I've banned quite a few girls already. There should be a report button on each post - so if something is offensive then report it.

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS; zimmerman post $1 million bond ON 06/06/2012


VIDEO

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/crime/2012/07/06/nr-zimmerman-out-on-bond.cnn



http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/crime/2012/07/06/lemon-crump-zimmerman.cnn

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS!; FBI DISCOVERS ZIMMERMANS SECRET
George Zimmerman investigators: Startling motive for shooting Trayvon Martin

As the FBI closes in on commencing the initial phase of what is foreseen as a long and grueling investigation into the fatal shooting of Miami Gardens teen Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, investigators have begun to scour the residence of George Zimmerman, 27, in search of key details and evidence that may shed light on the circumstances surrounding the February 26 shooting that claimed the life of Martin, 17. “It’s a process that must be respected and given time to unravel itself,” stated lead FBI investigator, Marques Graves Saturday afternoon. However dismaying, Florida state prosecutor Angela Corey could soon face an ultimatum once Zimmerman’s Aspiron laptop is admitted into evidence at the trial’s opening arguments.

What chief FBI investigator Hallen Jameson stumbled upon Saturday afternoon generated a rift in the initial search of Zimmerman’s property. Among facebook messenger, eBay biddings, and Bank of America online banking, also dwelt a Firefox Mozilla browser history containing URLs to several pornographic websites aimed toward gay Black men. The sites visited were Taggaz.com, CocoDorm.com, and Thugboy.com, to name a few, with the latter being visited four times just hours prior to the shooting. Graphic in nature, the sites are premium adult pay sites containing images, videos, and erotic stories of Black ‘thug’ males engaging in sexual acts with other men. Several investigators and detectives have begun incorporating these findings into what may be an incredible twist in what may factor a role into the true motivation behind Zimmerman fatally shooting the Black teen in February. Perhaps an unreciprocated sexual invitation gone awry? Zimmerman’s residence had been warded off immediately after the fatal shooting. The IT programmer assigned to the investigation has declined to give further detail into the brow-raising discovery.



http://sanforddailynews.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/george-zimmerman-investigators-startling-motive-for-shooting-trayvon-martin/



BREAKING: http://sanforddailynews.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/george-zimmerman-investigators-startling-motive-for-shooting-trayvon-martin/

[Token Williams-Black]

Damn!

[natina]

Medical Report: Zimmerman Did NOT Suffer Head Trauma!

George Zimmerman, the wanna-be cop who shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead on Feb. 26, did NOT suffer brain trauma, according to a medical evaluation conducted after the shooting, the Miami Herald reports.


The report did say Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and black eyes. Standing at 5 feet 7½ inches tall and 204 lbs, Zimmerman was also described as “obese” in the report. The doctor wrote that Zimmerman did “not have any blurry vision or dizziness.” Though the doctor wrote that Zimmerman said he “got nauseous every time he thought of the night’s violence.”
According to the Duval County Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, even though Zimmerman suffered injures on the night he killed Trayvon, the only reason he sought medical attention was because he needed a doctor’s note for work.

RELATED: New 911 Calls Released, Sanford Chief Bill Lee Fired


Here are more details from the Herald:


The doctor said Zimmerman had two cuts on his head which did not require stitches because they were already healing. His nose was fractured and hurt, and he suffered joint pain likely because of the assault, the doctor said.

“We discussed that it is likely broken, but does not appear to have septal deviation,” the doctor wrote. “The swelling and black eyes are typical of this injury. I recommended that he be evaluated by ENT but he refused.”

The records show Zimmerman takes a variety of medications, including pills that both elevate your mood and calm it. He suffers from sacroiliitis, inflammation of the joints in the lower spine. He also has had irritable bowel syndrome.


http://newsone.com/2023642/george-zimmerman-medical-records/

[natina]

Zimmerman and the "Great Bodily Harm" Doctrine



The assertion that Florida law allows shooting whenever someone believes it to be necessary is a flat-out lie. The actual law of Florida is that “a person is justified in the use of deadly force” if “(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself...."

Florida’s rule that deadly force may be used to prevent “imminent death or great bodily harm” or “the imminent commission of a forcible felony” is the norm throughout the United States.

Like the majority of American states, Florida does not mandate that victims of a violent crime attempt to retreat before they defend themselves. The retreat rule is irrelevant, regardless of whether you believe Trayvon’s advocates or Mr. Zimmerman’s advocates....Even among the more restrictive states, such as New York, retreat is not required before using deadly force in the home - to prevent a burglary, robbery, kidnapping, rape or other forcible criminal sexual attack. Thus, whether you are in Lake Placid, N.Y., or Lake Placid, Fla., and someone attempts to rob you when you are walking down the street, you have no duty to retreat before using deadly force to thwart the robbery.

I've deliberately commented sparingly on the Trayvon Martin case because the actual facts of the matter are in such turmoil. So I apologize if this question has been answered elsewhere and I just haven't seen it.

But here's the part I've never quite gotten. Even if you accept Zimmerman's side of the story entirely, Zimmerman was an armed man tracking Martin and obviously scaring the hell out of him. In Zimmerman's account, Martin then jumped him and started beating him up. But even if this is the whole story, is that grounds to shoot someone? Just how much bodily harm do you have to reasonably expect before you're allowed to kill someone? After all, this wasn't in someone's home, and Martin wasn't trying to rob Zimmerman. He was a guy that Zimmerman was trailing. Surely "great" bodily harm has to mean more than just wrestling someone to the ground and throwing some punches, even in Florida? What does Florida law say about that?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/04/george-zimmerman-and-great-bodily-harm-doctrine

[eccentricBlue]

Don't care
Don't care
Don't care....

[GroobySteven]

Don't care
Don't care
Don't care....
Then don't be a dick - click on another post instead of keep coming back in here seeking attention.

[eccentricBlue]

Then don't be a dick - click on another post instead of keep coming back in here seeking attention.

I'm not being a dick... I'm just calling out second hand slander.

[GroobySteven]

I'm not being a dick... I'm just calling out second hand slander.
No you said you "don't care" clearly you do otherwise why a) click on this thread b) read it c) respond.
If you've got something to say, then say it.

[eccentricBlue]

The whole premis of this thread is b.s. and copy/pasting bias news reports does nothing to advance rational thought. There, I said it, and now I'm done with this thread.

[giovanni_hotel]

The whole premis of this thread is b.s. and copy/pasting bias news reports does nothing to advance rational thought. There, I said it, and now I'm done with this thread.

The Miami Herald is a legitimate newspaper. They are reporting what has been documented in medical reports and interviews with medical professionals.
There's nothing 'subjective' about what they're printing in their newspaper.

You're mad cause you bet on the wrong horse.

BTW I totally don't believe Zimmerman was cruising Trayvon before he killed him. But that is a funny twist to the story that George had several hits to Black gay porn sites on his Firefox browser.lol

[eccentricBlue]

17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A) THIS HEADLINE IS BULLSHIT.
B) such talk only stokes racial tensions
C) "legitimate" news outlets are still bias
D) none of us have all the facts
E) neither Trayvon or George are/were saints
F) this should be no more than a local story
G) The media only jumped on this story because it was originally believed to be a white on black crime
H) I don't have a horse in this race so I dont care

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't see how medical reports are biased.
And having a 'bias' or slant doesn't mean the reporting is illegitimate.

The Miami Herald is a conservative leaning paper and in many instances covering this case they have defended George Zimmerman. They report whatever they can get their hands on, there isn't selective censoring in this case by the Herald to advance a point of view.

THere are plenty of 'facts' presented in this thread, borh from Sanford detectives and local reporters. It's up to you to decide whether or not they're accurate.
For instance, at first I just didn't believe Zimmerman was injured in this confrontation, but I've later seen his head with a bandage in a police video a day after the crime and a shot of the back of his dome during interrogation.

They may have been superficial injuries, but it does confirm there was a physical confrontation before the shooting.

No one's spinning IMO when it comes to presenting the known evidence in this case.
Sorry, but anytime someone is shot dead and the killer is allowed to go home without charge by police, that's going to become a national headline.

People who don't care, don't post. You care a little bit.lol

[AmyDaly]

It wasn't that quick, I've been watching him for a while. I've banned quite a few girls already. There should be a report button on each post - so if something is offensive then report it.

I stopped reporting when the old mods didn't bother doing anything about it. Natina is nothing but a racially motivated troll. Why is this person still even here?

[broncofan]

Eccentric Blue,
you do have a horse in this race or you would not be posting on the one hand to say you don't care and on the other to admit you do (hence your moronic list of points).

You said this is the stupidest thread in history, yet you've lowered the average iq of the thread with your comments. Only about ten pages ago, someone else with a picture of their torso said the exact thing as you; essentially that the thread's existence troubles them. I found posts by this person earlier in the thread supporting Mr. Zimmerman. They apparently did believe it should exist until others disagreed with them and they couldn't offer a rebuttal.

You also say that nobody has all the facts, but that's certainly not a reason to avoid discussing what is known. If agreeing on every fact were a pre-requisite to conversation, then there would be little left to talk about.

Here's what I think is going on here. You believe Mr. Zimmerman is being treated unfairly, can't articulate an argument demonstrating as much, and believe that calling the thread stupid is as close as you can get to expressing an opinion. You also believe it is race baiting that some want to earnestly discuss what they believe was a racially motivated crime. You are a fool imo.

[broncofan]

People who don't care, don't post. You care a little bit.lol
Yes sir. He doesn't like the comments posted here and literally does not want anyone to discuss the topic. Could you imagine if life were that easy? Any time you hear something you don't like you could literally make the medium expressing that view vanish.

[GroobySteven]

I stopped reporting when the old mods didn't bother doing anything about it. Natina is nothing but a racially motivated troll. Why is this person still even here?

Why not? I find a lot of Natina's postings useful. I don't find him/her often trolling other people's threads so you have a choice on whether to click on his/her threads or not.

[natina]

zimmerman a GAY CRUISER :ignore::rolleyes::whoa:shock::jawdrop
:banghead
:screwy

things that gay male do to pick up males

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=68199


BREAKING NEWS!; FBI DISCOVERS ZIMMERMANS SECRET
George Zimmerman investigators: Startling motive for shooting Trayvon Martin

As the FBI closes in on commencing the initial phase of what is foreseen as a long and grueling investigation into the fatal shooting of Miami Gardens teen Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, investigators have begun to scour the residence of George Zimmerman, 27, in search of key details and evidence that may shed light on the circumstances surrounding the February 26 shooting that claimed the life of Martin, 17. “It’s a process that must be respected and given time to unravel itself,” stated lead FBI investigator, Marques Graves Saturday afternoon. However dismaying, Florida state prosecutor Angela Corey could soon face an ultimatum once Zimmerman’s Aspiron laptop is admitted into evidence at the trial’s opening arguments.

What chief FBI investigator Hallen Jameson stumbled upon Saturday afternoon generated a rift in the initial search of Zimmerman’s property. Among facebook messenger, eBay biddings, and Bank of America online banking, also dwelt a Firefox Mozilla browser history containing URLs to several pornographic websites aimed toward gay Black men. The sites visited were Taggaz.com, CocoDorm.com, and Thugboy.com, to name a few, with the latter being visited four times just hours prior to the shooting. Graphic in nature, the sites are premium adult pay sites containing images, videos, and erotic stories of Black ‘thug’ males engaging in sexual acts with other men. Several investigators and detectives have begun incorporating these findings into what may be an incredible twist in what may factor a role into the true motivation behind Zimmerman fatally shooting the Black teen in February. Perhaps an unreciprocated sexual invitation gone awry? Zimmerman’s residence had been warded off immediately after the fatal shooting. The IT programmer assigned to the investigation has declined to give further detail into the brow-raising discovery.



http://sanforddailynews.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/george-zimmerman-investigators-startling-motive-for-shooting-trayvon-martin/

[AmyDaly]

Why not? I find a lot of Natina's postings useful. I don't find him/her often trolling other people's threads so you have a choice on whether to click on his/her threads or not.

lol...go through this person's thread history. 90 something percent of them are about race and white people. I am having trouble believing that you don't recognize that. All they are good for is inciting racial tension. Not to mention even you posted that they have IP's matching that of other members on this site.

[GroobySteven]

Not to mention even you posted that they have IP's matching that of other members on this site.

Which has stopped since they were given a warning of being banned.

[natina]

amy day quotes FOX NEWS


amy day is a fox news plant/parrot


a fox news sheepeople


fox news is bullshit! ,birthers are bullshit,tea party is bullshit! therefore
amy day must be bullshit!

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516

Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping



News reports are suggesting that later today the authorities in Florida will announce charges against Trayvon Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman. Coverage of this story was handled by Fox News in a manner that is revealing and offensive – and wholly unique to Fox News:







This is a journalistic lynching. And note, this is not Fox Nation. It is the mothership, Fox News. The editors at this alleged “news” network are demonstrating their overt hostility to both African-Americans and journalistic ethics. If this picture doesn’t finally establish the overarching prejudice of Fox, it’s hard to know what will. Their bias is so clearly being exercised with a zealotry that the Klan would shrink from. How do they get away with this?


This is a more impartial photo that does not disparage the victim (although it still is not as overtly cheerful as Zimmerman’s pic). You think they got a few complaints about the previous photo? They must have had a reason for changing it.


[Addendum] A couple of commenters have asserted (without proof) that the lighter picture of Trayvon was the one that was Photoshopped. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they are right and that the picture Fox used was not altered (at least by Fox). That does not change the fact that Fox made an editorial decision to use that picture. They had numerous pictures from which to choose of both Trayvon and Zimmerman, and they chose the most negative picture of Trayvon which they paired with the most positive picture of Zimmerman. That was not an accident. It was the result of deliberate editorial judgment. And it tells us everything we need to know about Fox’s editors.

There has also been some discussion as to whether making Trayvon look darker was inherently racist. Two points: 1) Making anyone look darker has the effect of making them look more sinister. And making the subject of a photo look more sinister, regardless of race, is blatant editorial bias. 2) Darker skinned African-Americans are not viewed more negatively by fair-minded people who are free of prejudice, but they are viewed more negatively by people predisposed to discriminate on the basis of race
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851 (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851)

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516

[natina]

actually I posted FACTS .

actually many news agencies & the investigators collected this info.

FACTS FROM NEWS ORGANIZATION THAT SUBPOENAED RECORDS ,WITNESS STATEMENTS AND MANY EXHIBITS.

What fact do you have? very little if any at all!




The whole premis of this thread is b.s. and copy/pasting bias news reports does nothing to advance rational thought. There, I said it, and now I'm done with this thread.

[AmyDaly]

amy day quotes FOX NEWS


amy day is a fox news plant/parrot


a fox news sheepeople


fox news is bullshit! ,birthers are bullshit,tea party is bullshit! therefore
amy day must be bullshit!



HEre we go again... Natina, you are an idiot. I don't even have cable, you stupid asshole.

[AmyDaly]

Which has stopped since they were given a warning of being banned.

Yea...this person is never going to stop it. They have been doing it for years. Look at the crap they just said. I suppose its because I am white that I watch fox news. Natina is just a racist.

[Erika1487]

amy day quotes FOX NEWS


amy day is a fox news plant/parrot


a fox news sheepeople


fox news is bullshit! ,birthers are bullshit,tea party is bullshit! therefore
amy day must be bullshit!

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516

Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping



News reports are suggesting that later today the authorities in Florida will announce charges against Trayvon Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman. Coverage of this story was handled by Fox News in a manner that is revealing and offensive – and wholly unique to Fox News:







This is a journalistic lynching. And note, this is not Fox Nation. It is the mothership, Fox News. The editors at this alleged “news” network are demonstrating their overt hostility to both African-Americans and journalistic ethics. If this picture doesn’t finally establish the overarching prejudice of Fox, it’s hard to know what will. Their bias is so clearly being exercised with a zealotry that the Klan would shrink from. How do they get away with this?


This is a more impartial photo that does not disparage the victim (although it still is not as overtly cheerful as Zimmerman’s pic). You think they got a few complaints about the previous photo? They must have had a reason for changing it.


[Addendum] A couple of commenters have asserted (without proof) that the lighter picture of Trayvon was the one that was Photoshopped. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they are right and that the picture Fox used was not altered (at least by Fox). That does not change the fact that Fox made an editorial decision to use that picture. They had numerous pictures from which to choose of both Trayvon and Zimmerman, and they chose the most negative picture of Trayvon which they paired with the most positive picture of Zimmerman. That was not an accident. It was the result of deliberate editorial judgment. And it tells us everything we need to know about Fox’s editors.

There has also been some discussion as to whether making Trayvon look darker was inherently racist. Two points: 1) Making anyone look darker has the effect of making them look more sinister. And making the subject of a photo look more sinister, regardless of race, is blatant editorial bias. 2) Darker skinned African-Americans are not viewed more negatively by fair-minded people who are free of prejudice, but they are viewed more negatively by people predisposed to discriminate on the basis of race
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851 (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851)

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67516Natina how are you allowed have internet access at the mental hospital you reside in O_o?

[Erika1487]

I have alot too say about this thread, but won't say word due to the fact it should be MOVED TO THE POLITCIAL BOARDS after post 30 or so :/ Seanchi you know better!

[buttslinger]

If messing with people's sensitivities is a crime, I should have been banned long ago. With Natina, by now I'm a lot more curious to see her Alt.com Bio than her repetitive pastings, but this thread is evidence that simmering below the need to pay the rent, there's a need to express the importance of finding a place that doesn't exist yet. I hope Trish comes back soon, she would say it right.
As for the redneck platform, their problem is often THE problem, with the black community and the LGBT community. They're just saying what a whole lot of people are saying.

[yodajazz]

Natina how are you allowed have internet access at the mental hospital you reside in O_o?

Perhaps this post by Natina was insignificant to you, but it has importance for me, to bring out media bias. In order to believe Zimmerman's original story, one has to make the supposition that an unarmed teen without any criminal record, would suddenly attempt to kill a man without any provocation. Media images of Blacks play an important part of whether one believes this scenario or not.

I have said previously that certain communities actually attemp to keep crimes out of the news in order to make their communities feel safer. That ties directly to such things as property values, as people long to find safer places. Blacks who commit crimes are often 'paraded' on the news, such as in a big drug bust. But drug problems are in every community. It may be a dfferent type of drug or not.

I have not read every line of every post by Natina, but I have seen some informative information in her posts.

[buttslinger]

My brother met Saul Alinsky in the sixties and asked him if he had any personal advice for him.
"Shave your beard. Nobody will take you seriously"

I'm glad Obama followed Bush.
I'm glad Zimmerman was arrested.
And God bless the United States of America.

[Erika1487]

Perhaps this post by Natina was insignificant to you, but it has importance for me, to bring out media bias. In order to believe Zimmerman's original story, one has to make the supposition that an unarmed teen without any criminal record, would suddenly attempt to kill a man without any provocation. Media images of Blacks play an important part of whether one believes this scenario or not.

I have said previously that certain communities actually attemp to keep crimes out of the news in order to make their communities feel safer. That ties directly to such things as property values, as people long to find safer places. Blacks who commit crimes are often 'paraded' on the news, such as in a big drug bust. But drug problems are in every community. It may be a dfferent type of drug or not.

I have not read every line of every post by Natina, but I have seen some informative information in her posts.
Let me clairfy to you and butslinger I am not knocking her for her politics, I only ment to quote the stupid bs about amy not the article she posted underneath it. Agian I have alot to say about this thread, but as I mentioned before won't until this thread off the gd board.

[buttslinger]

Let me clairfy to you and butslinger I am not knocking her for her politics, I only ment to quote the stupid bs about amy not the article she posted underneath it. Agian I have alot to say about this thread, but as I mentioned before won't until this thread off the gd board.

Who's worse, Natina or Rush Limbaugh?

[Erika1487]

Who's worse, Natina or Rush Limbaugh?
I listen too Rush, so I am going to say Natina without blinking!

[buttslinger]

I listen too Rush, so I am going to say Natina without blinking!

uuunnnhhhhhhhhhh....................

[natina]

george carlin describes rush limbaugh - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzrxy9A7Ja4&feature=related)


I listen too Rush, so I am going to say Natina without blinking!

[Token Williams-Black]

Haha!

[eccentricBlue]

The funny thing about rush is the way most of his critics don't understand his humor. He says things in jest and most media outlets fall for it hook, line n sinker. It's fine to disagree with him, as I do on some subjects, but to write off his valid positions because of your personal opinion of the man do nothing to advance civil & intelligent discussion.

George Carlin has always been one of my all time favorite comedians. I even saw him live a couple years before he passed. I never disliked him because he was an atheist. I didn't always agree with his politics, but as a commedian he was always top notch.

IMHO, (responsible) conservatives & liberals are valuable to our society, and each are needed in their respective time and circumstances. When we lose track of perspective and truth, then buy into rhetoric, we all lose.

[GroobySteven]

I never disliked him because he was an atheist.

Why would you have?

[eccentricBlue]

Why would you have?

I believe in God, but some people take their beliefs too far, or try to impose their beliefs on others. Like the old saying goes, "too much of anything is never a good thing".

[GroobySteven]

I believe in God, but some people take their beliefs too far, or try to impose their beliefs on others. Like the old saying goes, "too much of anything is never a good thing".

Fair enough although I'd say in response to "too much of anything is never a good thing" for religion, that any religion, is too much.

[Silcc69]

I don't always agree with Amy all of the time, but to say that she is a Faux New parrot is well it's absurd!

[TS CANDY NY]

Perhaps this post by Natina was insignificant to you, but it has importance for me, to bring out media bias. In order to believe Zimmerman's original story, one has to make the supposition that an unarmed teen without any criminal record, would suddenly attempt to kill a man without any provocation. Media images of Blacks play an important part of whether one believes this scenario or not.

I have said previously that certain communities actually attemp to keep crimes out of the news in order to make their communities feel safer. That ties directly to such things as property values, as people long to find safer places. Blacks who commit crimes are often 'paraded' on the news, such as in a big drug bust. But drug problems are in every community. It may be a dfferent type of drug or not.

I have not read every line of every post by Natina, but I have seen some informative information in her posts.

i agree, if do not like the thread stop trying to make your self relevant

[natina]

Zimmerman wants to toss trial judge in Trayvon Martin case


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120713-judge-kenneth-lester-412p.photoblog600.jpg

George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer charged with second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, on Friday asked for a new judge – again.
The motion was revealed as one of two Zimmerman case documents released Friday. The second sought to keep certain evidence evidence from being made public.
Zimmerman’s attorney Mark O'Mara said in the judge-recusal filing that remarks by Seminole County Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester “created a reasonable fear in Mr. Zimmerman that this court is biased against him” and Zimmerman “cannot get a fair trial."

O’Mara took issue with Lester saying in a July 5 order setting Zimmerman’s bail at $1 million that the defendant had “flouted the system” by failing to disclose at his first bond hearing in April that he had raised money from donations for his legal defense.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/g-cvr-120705-zimmerman-712p.380;380;7;70.jpg
George Zimmerman



In April, Zimmerman was released on $150,000 bond. The judge revoked the bond June 1 after prosecutors showed Zimmerman had allowed his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, to mislead the court about the couple's financial picture during an April hearing, failing to disclose at least $130,000 raised in a PayPal account.

In granting the $1 million bail earlier this month, Lester said that evidence indicated Zimmerman, 28, was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution based on the money raised online, and his possession of second passport that he had failed to disclose to the court.
O’Mara’s motion argued the comment showed bias.

"The court makes sweeping generalizations about Mr. Zimmerman based on limited information and disregards the evidence that contradicts those conclusions," O’Mara said in the motion.
A spokeswoman for the judge said Lester wouldn't comment Friday but would address the matter later.

A spokesperson for State Attorney Angela Corey's office said in an email to media that it would file its own response to the recusal motion next week, and added that "the State objects to the Defendant trying to disqualify Judge Lester."
In April, Zimmerman and his legal team asked the judge presiding at the time, Jessica Recksiedler, to step aside because of a possible conflict of interest after revelations that her husband, Jason Recksiedler, had been contacted by Zimmerman's family as part of their search for a defense attorney.
The request was granted and Lester was appointed at that time to serve as judge in the case.
Zimmerman, who has pleaded not guilty, told police he acted in self-defense in the Feb. 26 shooting death of Martin, 17, in a Sanford, Fla., gated community.



In the second document released Friday, Lester denied O’Mara’s effort to keep two pieces of evidence under seal:

A statement by so-called “witness #9.” In a statement released earlier, witness #9 told Sanford police that Zimmerman harbors prejudiced views. While NBC News has not seen the second statement, sources said it could be explosive and could damage Zimmerman in the court of public opinion.
Details of almost 150 jail calls between Zimmerman and friends and family members.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/13/12728817-zimmerman-wants-to-toss-trial-judge-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite

[natina]

zimmerman attorney wants to file a motion of STAND YOUR GROUND

AND HAS ALREADY AMITTED THAT ZIMMERMAN HAS CREDIBILITY

ISSUES,SO he wants a new judge who zimmerman has not deceived.

[onmyknees]

My brother met Saul Alinsky in the sixties and asked him if he had any personal advice for him.
"Shave your beard. Nobody will take you seriously"

I'm glad Obama followed Bush.
I'm glad Zimmerman was arrested.
And God bless the United States of America.



I think that's the 3rd or 4th time you've posted the first part of that, but you never were very original and I think we already know your left wing politics, but reach a little deeper and give us a real view into your thoughts . What happens to your third point if the first 2 come undone....??
Obama gets crushed in November, and Zimmerman is found not guilty ? Because at the moment both occurrences stand a better than even chance of occurring.

And while you're at it....maybe you could get into providing us a view of how a left wing nut like you thinks....that is to say you're all over a perceived racial shooting in Florida because the press has wet your appetite with every juicy narrative folks like you embellish...after all, what's not to understand about a black kid being gunned down by a white southerner....however it's not quite that black and white..pardon the pun.....yet probably more blacks were gunned down in the past several weeks (by people who look like them ) in major US cities than probably were lynched in the old south during Jim Crow....and you're asleep at the switch. You may be aware of it...you may be disturbed by it....but none of that compels you to comment on it. Nor Natina, nor many others. While I understand a shooting in Chicago has no relationship to a shooting in Florida, other than the victims skin color...( isn't that what you're concerned about?) my curiosity is why one is given so much weight by folks like you, while the others despite the alarming frequency go unnoticed. And given the latest findings by the FBI ...( here's the first sentence in the article....full link posted below) will you and the others keep beating the drum of this being a racial crime ? When will the facts begin to outweigh your and others incorrect perceptions ...or will they now extend to a determination the FBI is racist or involved in a cover up? . How many does it take to keep the conspiracy going? Should we stay tunned to Al Sharpton for answers on that?


FBI report: No evidence George Zimmerman is racist

An FBI investigation into the shooting of black teenager Travyon Martin concluded that there's no evidence the suspect, George Zimmerman, was motivated by racial bias or hatred.





By Patrik Jonsson (http://www.csmonitor.com/About/Staff/Patrik-Jonsson), Staff writer / July 12, 2012

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0712-fbi-report-zimmerman/13123536-1-eng-US/0712-fbi-report-Zimmerman_full_380.jpg (http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0712-fbi-report-zimmerman/13123536-1-eng-US/0712-fbi-report-Zimmerman_full_600.jpg)

In this June 29 file photo, George Zimmerman and attorney Don West appear before Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester during a bond hearing at the Seminole County Criminal Justice Center in Sanford, Fla. After interviewing 30 people familiar with Zimmerman, FBI agents found no evidence that the shooting of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin was driven by racial bias or animus.
Joe Burbank/Orlando Sentinel/AP



http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0712/FBI-report-No-evidence-George-Zimmerman-is-racist

[chromeheart44m]

sir if you are not a minority let me explain something to you , you seem intelligent so I will keep it short .yes blacks have deeper issues than racism nowadays exposing that does not make this less of a problem, there can be many issues at the same time communitiess must deal with, one of the problems many have with this case is that we minorities are always on guard of how we are being perceived by whites, if we enter a mostly white neighborhood we are immediately unguard, many whites maybe not Zimmerman but others mostly the elderly are very scared they do not undrstand the music the attire the lingo swag etc,I myself have been stopped repeatedly and arrested for crimes I did not commit, when I moved 2 my new house, admittedly I was young and wore low jeans and hoodies but I am not a criminal Martin was not a criminal, ask urself would Zimmerman have called the cops on a white teen in a hoodie probably not, he may not be racist especially being of hispanic descent but he sure acts like one!

[Silcc69]

sir if you are not a minority let me explain something to you , you seem intelligent so I will keep it short .yes blacks have deeper issues than racism nowadays exposing that does not make this less of a problem, there can be many issues at the same time communitiess must deal with, one of the problems many have with this case is that we minorities are always on guard of how we are being perceived by whites, if we enter a mostly white neighborhood we are immediately unguard, many whites maybe not Zimmerman but others mostly the elderly are very scared they do not undrstand the music the attire the lingo swag etc,I myself have been stopped repeatedly and arrested for crimes I did not commit, when I moved 2 my new house, admittedly I was young and wore low jeans and hoodies but I am not a criminal Martin was not a criminal, ask urself would Zimmerman have called the cops on a white teen in a hoodie probably not, he may not be racist especially being of hispanic descent but he sure acts like one!

OMK and intelligent in the same sentence LOL. He's an exteme right wing nut on a tranny site.

[buttslinger]

And while you're at it....maybe you could get into providing us a view of how a left wing nut like you thinks....

Here's how a left wing nutjob thinks: If my son was shot for walking home from the store and the guy who shot him walked home from the police station I would not need the media because you could hear me yelling sitting in your double-wide. I would be screaming my lungs out.

Your candidate for president is dirty as shit and his tax returns will prove it. You think he didn't move a little money around days before the market crashed? You think he didn't move a little money over to Anne's accounts when he ran for governor? You think he didn't know Bain was shipping US jobs overseas? You think he wasn't dodging paying his taxes in the Caymans and Switzerland?


I think:
You lose on Obamacare
You lose on Zimmerman
You lose on Romney
See a pattern here?
Shave your beard, Onmyknees. nobody takes you serious.

[natina]

WITNESS SAYS:zimmerman doesn't like black people (http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewMsg.asp?BoardID=39&Page=1&MessageID=179252)

zimmerman doesn't like black people"


BREAKING NEWS! WITNESS " I know George, and I know that he does not like black people."

An unnamed woman told an investigator in a police interview that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them. "I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the woman says in an audio recording.

An unnamed man told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said Zimmerman bullied him at work. Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work who did not like the man, so Zimmerman exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent, and made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him. "It was so immature," said the employee, who complained to management about Zimmerman. Zimmerman's parents say he wasn't racist. They said he mentored black students and had a black relative.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/evidence-trayvon-martin_n_1525285.html?ref=mostpopular


judge denied effort to keep two pieces of evidence under seal


In the second document released Friday, Lester denied O’Mara’s effort to keep two pieces of evidence under seal:

•A statement by so-called “witness #9.” In a statement released earlier, witness #9 told Sanford police that Zimmerman harbors prejudiced views. While NBC News has not seen the second statement, sources said it could be explosive and could damage Zimmerman in the court of public opinion.

•Details of almost 150 jail calls between Zimmerman and friends and family members.

the State objects to the Defendant trying to disqualify Judge Lester."

[Solitary Brother]

Bottom line...if tray von tried to attack this man he had every right to defend himself.
Now Zimmerman was an idiot and a fool for going after him an extremely reckless in carrying a gun with him.
But....in Florida I believe it is legal to carry a firearm.
Zimmerman from what I have heard and I have not followed his closely seems sane and somewhat rational.
Black people need to focus on Other issues........
The legal system will handle this.

[natina]

911 call records george Zimmermans's desire to DETAIN Travyon martin.


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling


----------- ---------------- -------------


Criminally Negligent Homicide



(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement





Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.







In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.

this is stated in zimmerman own reenactment.
zimmerman 1st stalked trayvon in his vehicle then later on foot.


ARGUMENT FOR NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
Detective faulted George Zimmerman for not avoiding confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman missed two opportunities to try to peacefully approach Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the unarmed teenager, according to an investigator's report released Tuesday.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," investigator Chris Serino wrote in an arrest warrant affidavit.

The affidavit was filed more than two weeks after the shooting when the Sanford Police Department was being criticized for not having arrested Zimmerman. Serino's March 13 affidavit recommended Zimmerman be picked up for manslaughter, but a special prosecutor assigned to take over the case upped the charge to second-degree murder.

The documents released Tuesday are part of the public pre-trial records .Zimmerman, 28, maintains he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense under Florida's "stand your ground law." He said he fired the fatal shot only after being ambushed and brutally attacked by the 17-year-old.

The deadly encounter occurred in a gated Sanford, Fla., neighborhood where Zimmerman lived and Martin was staying with a family friend. Zimmerman called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person walking through the area. He told the operator Martin was "up to no good" and "has his hand in his waist band."

In the report released Tuesday, police say Zimmerman contradicted himself by saying that he was initially fearful of Martin but later got out of his vehicle and followed after the teen.

"His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject," Serino wrote.



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/detective-faulted-george-zimmerman-not-avoiding-confrontation-trayvon-192523670.html

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite

[Token Williams-Black]

Bottom line...if tray von tried to attack this man he had every right to defend himself.
Now Zimmerman was an idiot and a fool for going after him an extremely reckless in carrying a gun with him.
But....in Florida I believe it is legal to carry a firearm.
Zimmerman from what I have heard and I have not followed his closely seems sane and somewhat rational.
Black people need to focus on Other issues........
The legal system will handle this.
And we all know how the legal system handles things.

[GroobySteven]

And we all know how the legal system handles things.

This thread was created BECAUSE the legal system wasn't handling it.

[Willie Escalade]

This thread was created BECAUSE the legal system wasn't handling it.
Exactly. And I can probably guess what the outcome will be. That's why I'm pretty much over it as well.

[buttslinger]

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
Winston Churchill

[natina]

the most damaging evidence to zimmerman is when he takes the stand

George Zimmerman Will Not Tell The Truth


George Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to His Honor, the Court, or the public. When Zimmerman took the witness stand at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing, he lied under oath in two forms: acts of omission and blatant falsehoods.


Zimmerman took the stand to make a self-serving statement in the cloak of an apology, but the message’s audience was for the media and a candid public, not the parents of the slain Trayvon Martin. It should be noted that O’Mara allowed this disrespectful action to be undertaken and His Honor did not stop it, either.

The faux apology given to turn the tide of negative media attention:


O'MARA: You advised me that you wanted to make a short statement, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Correct.
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
O'MARA: Nothing further, your honor.
George Zimmerman took the stand and performed for the media. The narrative was starting to change and the fickle media started pretending as if both the dead, unarmed minor, Trayvon Martin, and his confessed killer, George Zimmerman, were victims. This is absolutely incorrect. Man profiled, stalked, chased, and ultimately killed the minor. Those are the facts. Furthermore, Zimmerman lied on the stand about how old he thought Trayvon Martin was. When the non-emergency dispatcher asked how old Zimmerman thought the supposedly “suspicious guy” was, Zimmerman said “late teens.” 17 would classify as late teens. Let’s let that percolate into our collective conscience for a moment. A 28-year-old adult male tells the dispatcher that he believes a minor is indeed a minor and he stills exits his vehicle, with gun holstered, to chase after the “fucking punk” who would not get away. I can’t speak for Angela B. Corey, but when I heard this, I thought for sure any doubt about her over-charging Zimmerman went away.



State’s Attorney asking what took so long for the faux apology:


DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry, sir, you're not really addressing that to the court. You're doing it here to the victim's family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: I understand. But I thought you were going to address Your Honor, Judge Lester, not -- so that's really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you've done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No sir.
DE LA RIONDA: You never stated that, did you?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
DE LA RIONDA: You told that to the police?
ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements, I said that I felt sorry for the family.
DE LA RIONDA: You did?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And you're sure you said that?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.
DE LA RIONDA: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.
DE LA RIONDA: And do you remember if it was a male or a female?
ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.
DE LA RIONDA: At the time you made that statement that you were sorry?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And let me make sure the record's clear, you stated exactly what to those detectives?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember exactly what -- verbatim.
DE LA RIONDA: But you're saying you expressed concern for the loss of Mr. Martin, or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him?
ZIMMERMAN: I felt sorry that they lost their child, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: And so you told detectives that you wanted them to convey that to the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't know if they were detectives or not.
DE LA RIONDA: Officers, I apologize.
ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know if they were going to convey it or not. I just made the statement.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And then you said that you called them or you left a message for them to tell them that?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait 50 something days to tell them -- that is, the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't understand the question, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything.
ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to.
Zimmerman isn’t a very good liar, or at least he isn’t a believable one. When De La Rionda asked if he expressed the same sentiment to the police that he was expressing 50+ days later in His Honor’s Court, he said, “no.” Then he says he did express the sentiment. When De La Rionda asked who he told that too, he resorts back to the tried and the true, “I don’t know/I can’t remember” line that he used when he was questioned by Serino. I’ll get to that in a moment. I’m sure it’s not going to come as a surprise, but I’ve listened to everything that was released by George Zimmerman Legal Case, and I can tell you all that he never expressed remorse, contrition, or anything resembling sorrow for killing an unarmed minor. Before the stress test, he does ask a female police officer if she slept well, and he does ask her if she has “ever had to kill anybody,” as if trying to draw some parallels between the murder of Trayvon Martin and her job as a trained law enforcement agent. She seemed a bit perplexed/annoyed to me and answered “no/nope.” Real law enforcement agents are trained to use deadly force as a last resort, not a first option. So this is lie #2 given by George Zimmerman at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing.



George Zimmerman perjuring himself under oath about what was said to Serino/others:


DE LA RIONDA: But before you committed this crime on February 26th, you were arrested -- I'm sorry, not arrested. You were questioned that day, right, February 26th?
ZIMMERMAN: That evening into the 27th.
DE LA RIONDA: And then the following morning. Is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And the following evening, too. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?
ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"?
O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.
JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.
DE LA RIONDA: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?
JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.
O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.
DE LA RIONDA: Would you agree you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
Zimmerman’s most egregious lie is above. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman about how many statements he gave. Zimmerman replies. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman if he said “I don’t remember?” when Serino/Singleton poked holes in his account of what happened, using the non-emergency phone call to do so, and Zimmerman replied matter-of-factly, “Absolutely not.” Folks, that is the third lie to His Honor’s Court. George Zimmerman Legal Case has the audio still up. It is up for anyone who wants to listen to it. Make no mistake, when asked about things that didn’t add up, Zimmerman would say “I don’t know/I don’t remember.” When it was clear that Serino/Singleton were playing bad cop or no longer believed him, Zimmerman got defensive, lied, and omitted facts. He told the dispatcher he was following Trayvon. On the February 29, 2012, part 3 of the interview with Serino/Singleton; he said he wasn’t following, but walking in the same direction. When asked what type of running Trayvon was doing, he said he couldn’t remember/didn’t know. When asked why he got out of his car, Singleton bluntly said, “That isn’t what you told me.”


George Zimmerman is going to assert an affirmative defense in his second-degree murder trial. If Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to the truth in His Honor’s Court, I wouldn’t be making any long term plans for the future unless they included a prison facility.
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html

[natina]

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/V/4/George-Zimmerman-Stand-Grou.jpg


Zimmerman Defense Witnesses Undercut Defense On Cross-Examination At Second Bond Hearing
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/zimmerman-defense-witnesses-undercut.html

Character & Credibility: The Zimmerman Family
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/character-credibility-zimmerman-family.html

George Zimmerman Will Not Tell The Truth

http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html

[SFTB]

Plenty of people against the whole "stand your ground" issue. This week we see a situation in FL that shows the other side. Two 19 year olds decide to pull an armed robbery on an internet cafe. Internet cafes are actually small gambling halls, so there is a bit of cash on hand. A 71 year old patron with a legal firearm and a carry and conceal permit shoots them both. I open the floor to social commentary...I'll start with the sad fact that the article reads, "charges unlikely against man who shot robbers" That is some sad shit, not "senior saves the day" or "hero stands up to masked armed robbers"
Article:
http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790

[GroobySteven]

It doesn't show the other side at all. There was no "stand your ground" and it's a bit decrepit to try and make this anything other than what it is.
Luckily this guy was a good shot (did it say if he was ex-military or law enforcement) to be able to shoot them both without injury to others or himself.
I've just watched the video - what did he shoot them with, a potatoe gun???

I think it's lucky the way the old guy is waving that thing around and shooting and running, that he didn't accidentally hit someone. If he'd shot me or mine, even by accident, I'd be mighty pissed off at him. He made the choice to shoot.

[SFTB]

It doesn't show the other side at all. There was no "stand your ground" and it's a bit decrepit to try and make this anything other than what it is.
Luckily this guy was a good shot (did it say if he was ex-military or law enforcement) to be able to shoot them both without injury to others or himself.
I've just watched the video - what did he shoot them with, a potatoe gun???

I think it's lucky the way the old guy is waving that thing around and shooting and running, that he didn't accidentally hit someone. If he'd shot me or mine, even by accident, I'd be mighty pissed off at him. He made the choice to shoot.

This is a better video. I guess its a matter of opinion. Legally armed senior stops 2 thugs from robbing 30 people. One of which was waviing a gun in peoples faces while the other smashed the place up with a baseball bat. Would you also be pissed if you or yours were shot by the robbers?

71 Year Old Samuel Williams Shots Young Black Thugs Robbers in Internet Cafe - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eowwq1DV3J0)

[GroobySteven]

This is a better video. I guess its a matter of opinion. Legally armed senior stops 2 thugs from robbing 30 people. One of which was waviing a gun in peoples faces while the other smashed the place up with a baseball bat. Would you also be pissed if you or yours were shot by the robbers?

71 Year Old Samuel Williams Shots Young Black Thugs Robbers in Internet Cafe - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eowwq1DV3J0)


Absolutely I would have been. And if I was carrying a gun and those two cunts came in, I'd probably have done the same as he. Nevertheless, it does look a little precarious. Either way, this isn't relevant to the "stand your ground" issue elsewhere.

[GroobySteven]

How did he go from 71 to 63?

You can't seriously call a kid Dwayne can you?

[SFTB]

Either way, this isn't relevant to the "stand your ground" issue elsewhere.

In my op I used the word issue, I guess I should have written statute. But I think if you read it again, you can catch the gist of what I wrote. Planty of people against stand your ground, this is an example of where it is not only valid, but worked.

[Donkey]

Although "stand your ground" is likely to not be needed, the idea of using deadly force to defend yourself against a physical attack also worked in the Trayvon case. I fail to see how it's the "other side of the coin."

[ed_jaxon]

I am all for getting the number of guns down and out of the hands of criminals but that old dude is a hero. Gun? Licensed! Does he know how to wield it? Yup. Look at how he puts both hands on it and levels it before he fires the first time.

Crime is rampant in my city and more needs to be done to curb the proliferation of guns but in this instance, I am glad dude was there.

[Donkey]

Crime is rampant in my city and more needs to be done to curb the proliferation of guns but in this instance, I am glad dude was there.
The proliferation of guns is only a problem when it's guys like the two in the OP who are acquiring them. The proliferation of guns amongst our non-criminal element of society is a very good thing.

[giovanni_hotel]

Not similar cases at all. If someone chooses to commit a crime, IMO they are taking their lives in their own hands.

The only problem I'd have would be if those kids saw that old man's gun and turned and ran, and he STILL shot them. That would be wrong.

BTW I haven't watched the vid, but did this old man see these guys attempting to rob OTHER people and decide he was going to shoot them?? That's a little sketchy.
Did the kids die??

Trayvon wasn't armed. Trayvon wasn't committing a crime. Zimmerman was following him for several blocks in his SUV and on foot because he looked 'suspicious'.
THat's bullshit x3.

[SFTB]

The only problem I'd have would be if those kids saw that old man's gun and turned and ran, and he STILL shot them. That would be wrong.

BTW I haven't watched the vid, but did this old man see these guys attempting to rob OTHER people and decide he was going to shoot them?? That's a little sketchy.
Did the kids die??

Trayvon wasn't armed. Trayvon wasn't committing a crime. Zimmerman was following him for several blocks in his SUV and on foot because he looked 'suspicious'.
THat's bullshit x3.

Why not watch the vid and then comment? Only takes a minute. The post was to show a situation where "stand your ground" was not only applicable, but very effective. Plenty of people protesting against stand your ground. Maybe they need to leave the law alone.

[ed_jaxon]

The best of all possible worlds is a world totally free of guns.

Not everyone should be a gun owner as some are not emotionally capable of the responsibility of using deadly force.

Legally acquired guns can and often do fall into the hands of those with no business having them. Kids and grand kids for example.

Personally I would love to see a violent offender database like they have with sex offenders. We need to know when a violent person who has committed a crime with a firearm is in our midst.


The proliferation of guns is only a problem when it's guys like the two in the OP who are acquiring them. The proliferation of guns amongst our non-criminal element of society is a very good thing.

[SFTB]

The only problem I'd have would be if those kids saw that old man's gun and turned and ran, and he STILL shot them. That would be wrong.

.

I was thinking you have a strange sense of right and wrong. What about the 30 people in the cafe? When one guys smashing the place with a bat while the other has a gun in people's faces. But you didnt watch the vid, just commented. He shot, and kept shooting until they were out, he then locks the door and waits for police. He hit both of them.

[Donkey]

Trayvon wasn't armed. Trayvon wasn't committing a crime.
Trayvon started committing a crime when he began physically assaulting Zimmerman. At that point, it does not matter if he was armed or not. The person being assaulted has the legal right to defend themselves, which includes the use of deadly force.

[GroobySteven]

Trayvon started committing a crime when he began physically assaulting Zimmerman. At that point, it does not matter if he was armed or not. The person being assaulted has the legal right to defend themselves, which includes the use of deadly force.

Shut up - we're not starting with your donkey (assinine) remarks in this thread. Your previous post about how "The proliferation of guns amongst our non-criminal element of society is a very good thing." just goes to show how stupid you are.

[Donkey]

So, a discussion which addresses the actual law which will apply to the Zimmerman case, rather than some anti-gun fantasy is assinine?

I realize you aren't from the US, don't live in the US, and many of our ideals are foreign to you, but the proliferation of guns amongst law-abiding Americans is actually a guaranteed right in our Constitution. The vast majority of Americans do not find it to be "stupid."

[GroobySteven]

So, a discussion which addresses the actual law which will apply to the Zimmerman case, rather than some anti-gun fantasy is assinine?

I realize you aren't from the US, don't live in the US, and many of our ideals are foreign to you, but the proliferation of guns amongst law-abiding Americans is actually a guaranteed right in our Constitution. The vast majority of Americans do not find it to be "stupid."

I've lived in the USA for 12 yrs and traveled through more states and cities than any American I know. Don't stand on the fucking "Constitution" as back up for gun ownership. Wasn't slavery and killing Indians part of your culture at one point (but you changed), wasn't there cannibalism in the USA (but you changed). Things CAN change and backing it up with a document that was created by different people in different times, is pathetic. A massive amount of American's who own guns are actually fairly fucking stupid and they should never have had those rights. You bring guns into your society and they will always fall into the wrong hands, or those "law-abiding" people decide that today, they've had enough, or their "law abiding" kids get a hold of the guns.

As far as Treyvon Martin/Zimmerman - I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. The gun nuts just want Zimmerman to get off so their gun rights aren't violated and the racists just want the right to be able to kill another un-armed nigger without retribution, and the blacks "leaders" just want to look for an excuse to cause friction and line their own pockets.
A kid was killed needlessly. That's the only story.

[giovanni_hotel]

Trayvon started committing a crime when he began physically assaulting Zimmerman. At that point, it does not matter if he was armed or not. The person being assaulted has the legal right to defend themselves, which includes the use of deadly force.

Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.

If I follow you in the middle of the night in my car, get out and chase after you on foot and then YOU smack me in the face, afterwards I don't have the justification to claim 'self defense' and shoot you dead through the heart.

Eliminate race, pretend Trayvon is a close loved one in your family, then ask yourself was your loved one's death justified or fair because a stranger decided to follow them home because they looked 'suspicious'??

Does that make sense?

At the time of the murder, Zimmerman outweighed this kid by FORTY POUNDS, despite being roughly 4 inches shorter than Trayvon.

This was murder by a paranoid vigilante, plain and simple.

[Donkey]

Don't stand on the fucking "Constitution" as back up for gun ownership.
Why would it not be? The Constitution literally guarantees that right.


Wasn't slavery and killing Indians part of your culture at one point (but you changed), wasn't their cannibalism in the USA (but you changed). Things CAN change and backing it up with a document that was created by different people in different times, is pathetic.
Except slavery was against our Constitution. Our Founding Fathers also provided Americans with a remedy if we felt like our Constitution no longer reflected the ideals and values of The People. There is a process to change it. Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.


A massive amount of American's who own guns are actually fairly fucking stupid and they should never have has those rights.
I would be far more uncomfortable with the federal government deciding who our rights applied to and who they didn't, based on their interpretation of "stupid," than I am with a few stupid people having the opportunity to exercise Constitutional rights just like everyone else.


As far as Treyvon Martin/Zimmerman - I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. The gun nuts just want Zimmerman to get off so their gun rights aren't violated and the racists just want the right to be able to kill another un-armed nigger without retribution, and the blacks "leaders" just want to look for an excuse to cause friction and line their own pockets.
A kid was killed needlessly. That's the only story.
No matter what happens in the Zimmerman case, the gun rights of law-abiding Americans aren't in jeopardy. And unarmed blacks (as a black man, I choose not to use the word "nigger," but respect your right to), whites, asians, hispanics, etc., need to understand that simply being unarmed does not give you the right to physically beat on someone. Sure, you can do it, but you may not live to tell your side of the story.

[Donkey]

Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.
Simply following someone (if that's even proven to be true) does not give the person being followed the right to physically assault the person following them.

I'm sure celebrities would love to have the lawful right to beat down those pesky paparazzi who constantly follow them, bump into them, scream at them, and otherwise generally harass them.

[GroobySteven]

Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.

Erm ... ok. You've lost any point or the little credibility you had right here.

[Queens Guy]

Except slavery was against our Constitution. Our Founding Fathers also provided Americans with a remedy if we felt like our Constitution no longer reflected the ideals and values of The People. There is a process to change it. Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.


I would be far more uncomfortable with the federal government deciding who our rights applied to and who they didn't, based on their interpretation of "stupid," than I am with a few stupid people having the opportunity to exercise Constitutional rights just like everyone else.


Actually, Slavery was originally not against our Constitution. It wasn't made Unconstitutional until after the passage of the 14th Amendment.

Now, don't you Europeans pat yourselves on the back too hard. When the US Constitution was ratified, your countries allowed slavery, too. At least in your colonies.

I do agree with you that establishing a process to Amend the Constitution is a wonderful thing. And that it's far better to have that process than to turn over our rights to the whim of whomever is the President at the time. In that case you are choosing to have a benevolent dictatorship. And while you may love the decisions of today's benevolent dictator, you may hate the decisions of the next one.

To put it another way, I prefer the Constitution to either Bush or Obama.

[GroobySteven]

Now, don't you Europeans pat yourselves on the back too hard. When the US Constitution was ratified, your countries allowed slavery, too. At least in your colonies.


Absolutely - we had slavery and a host of other abominations. My point being, just because something once was, doesn't mean it always has to be. Change can be good and a constitution can be amended. I'm sure slave owners thought it was their "right" to own slaves and tribes thought it their "right" to eat humans but they changed.

[Silcc69]

I've lived in the USA for 12 yrs and traveled through more states and cities than any American I know. Don't stand on the fucking "Constitution" as back up for gun ownership. Wasn't slavery and killing Indians part of your culture at one point (but you changed), wasn't there cannibalism in the USA (but you changed). Things CAN change and backing it up with a document that was created by different people in different times, is pathetic. A massive amount of American's who own guns are actually fairly fucking stupid and they should never have had those rights. You bring guns into your society and they will always fall into the wrong hands, or those "law-abiding" people decide that today, they've had enough, or their "law abiding" kids get a hold of the guns.

As far as Treyvon Martin/Zimmerman - I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. The gun nuts just want Zimmerman to get off so their gun rights aren't violated and the racists just want the right to be able to kill another un-armed nigger without retribution, and the blacks "leaders" just want to look for an excuse to cause friction and line their own pockets.
A kid was killed needlessly. That's the only story.

LOL so fuckin true.

[Queens Guy]

wasn't there cannibalism in the USA (but you changed).


They may have taken that stuff out of our grade-school history books. When was their cannibalism in the USA? Not as a fetish or cult sort of thing, or the guy in Miami who got naked and ate the face of the homeless guy, but as a more mainstream part of culture?

[GroobySteven]

They may have taken that stuff out of our grade-school history books. When was their cannibalism in the USA? Not as a fetish or cult sort of thing, or the guy in Miami who got naked and ate the face of the homeless guy, but as a more mainstream part of culture?

Your 50th state.

[Queens Guy]

George Zimmerman and his lawyer, Mark O'Mara will be interviewed by Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel tonight at 9pm Eastern.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/zimmerman-interview-fox-news-video-173609523.html

[EvonRose]

Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.

If I follow you in the middle of the night in my car, get out and chase after you on foot and then YOU smack me in the face, afterwards I don't have the justification to claim 'self defense' and shoot you dead through the heart.

Eliminate race, pretend Trayvon is a close loved one in your family, then ask yourself was your loved one's death justified or fair because a stranger decided to follow them home because they looked 'suspicious'??

Does that make sense?

At the time of the murder, Zimmerman outweighed this kid by FORTY POUNDS, despite being roughly 4 inches shorter than Trayvon.

This was murder by a paranoid vigilante, plain and simple.

I have said this a few months back o this exact forum, and nobody seems to care unless it's done to them... people are biased because to them, the black kid was at fault because of how he represented himself with the hood and everything. But people fail to see the big picture. He was still a human child, who had a family who loved him, and a possible great future cut short. It's unfair, but people are unfair too. What can you really do?

[giovanni_hotel]

For those who had any doubt, George Zimmerman is a NUT.
It was 'God's plan' that led him to murder Trayvon.

George Zimmerman: &#39;It Was God&#39;s Plan&#39; For Me To Kill Trayvon Martin - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZxpwb0UYuk&feature=player_embedded)

[natina]

zimmerman exposed

notice that during the DA questioning of zimmerman ,he does not remmeber then when he is interviewed on the news he suddenly remmbers all these details.
see transcipts

IMPORTANT READ MORE;
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html


witness # 9

Zimmerman accused of sexual abuse

A new round of evidence released reveals that a woman, identified only as Witness 9, tearfully told Florida authorities investigating Zimmerman that he molested her for 10 years.

The woman, a relative of Zimmerman, recounts incidents that she said began when she was 6 and he was 8.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-18/zimmerman-hannity-interview-trayvon/56322814/1?csp=24&kjnd=vMn6p76EsnRoobVxwe2mh7VcIjimnMYjiJrdwBSz%2F1j 1%2FBu7CMkHSHNtZi3IBTXQ-96ad38a7-14f6-4fbb-a0fb-c865ca23b3ee_h83TAPpgnLaR0Ifz58ALYS3JEBlcjCo9JM9TI sbx%2B%2Bvx80aEBq%2BIzDt1dQQf47lP



http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-wishes-kill-trayvon-martin-gods-plan/story?id=16807202




the most damaging evidence to zimmerman is when he takes the stand


George Zimmerman Will Not Tell The Truth


George Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to His Honor, the Court, or the public. When Zimmerman took the witness stand at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing, he lied under oath in two forms: acts of omission and blatant falsehoods.


Zimmerman took the stand to make a self-serving statement in the cloak of an apology, but the message’s audience was for the media and a candid public, not the parents of the slain Trayvon Martin. It should be noted that O’Mara allowed this disrespectful action to be undertaken and His Honor did not stop it, either.

The faux apology given to turn the tide of negative media attention:


O'MARA: You advised me that you wanted to make a short statement, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Correct.
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
O'MARA: Nothing further, your honor.
George Zimmerman took the stand and performed for the media. The narrative was starting to change and the fickle media started pretending as if both the dead, unarmed minor, Trayvon Martin, and his confessed killer, George Zimmerman, were victims. This is absolutely incorrect. Man profiled, stalked, chased, and ultimately killed the minor. Those are the facts. Furthermore, Zimmerman lied on the stand about how old he thought Trayvon Martin was. When the non-emergency dispatcher asked how old Zimmerman thought the supposedly “suspicious guy” was, Zimmerman said “late teens.” 17 would classify as late teens. Let’s let that percolate into our collective conscience for a moment. A 28-year-old adult male tells the dispatcher that he believes a minor is indeed a minor and he stills exits his vehicle, with gun holstered, to chase after the “fucking punk” who would not get away. I can’t speak for Angela B. Corey, but when I heard this, I thought for sure any doubt about her over-charging Zimmerman went away.



State’s Attorney asking what took so long for the faux apology:


DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry, sir, you're not really addressing that to the court. You're doing it here to the victim's family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: I understand. But I thought you were going to address Your Honor, Judge Lester, not -- so that's really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you've done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No sir.
DE LA RIONDA: You never stated that, did you?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
DE LA RIONDA: You told that to the police?
ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements, I said that I felt sorry for the family.
DE LA RIONDA: You did?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And you're sure you said that?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.
DE LA RIONDA: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.
DE LA RIONDA: And do you remember if it was a male or a female?
ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.
DE LA RIONDA: At the time you made that statement that you were sorry?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And let me make sure the record's clear, you stated exactly what to those detectives?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember exactly what -- verbatim.
DE LA RIONDA: But you're saying you expressed concern for the loss of Mr. Martin, or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him?
ZIMMERMAN: I felt sorry that they lost their child, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: And so you told detectives that you wanted them to convey that to the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't know if they were detectives or not.
DE LA RIONDA: Officers, I apologize.
ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know if they were going to convey it or not. I just made the statement.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And then you said that you called them or you left a message for them to tell them that?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait 50 something days to tell them -- that is, the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't understand the question, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything.
ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to.
Zimmerman isn’t a very good liar, or at least he isn’t a believable one. When De La Rionda asked if he expressed the same sentiment to the police that he was expressing 50+ days later in His Honor’s Court, he said, “no.” Then he says he did express the sentiment. When De La Rionda asked who he told that too, he resorts back to the tried and the true, “I don’t know/I can’t remember” line that he used when he was questioned by Serino. I’ll get to that in a moment. I’m sure it’s not going to come as a surprise, but I’ve listened to everything that was released by George Zimmerman Legal Case, and I can tell you all that he never expressed remorse, contrition, or anything resembling sorrow for killing an unarmed minor. Before the stress test, he does ask a female police officer if she slept well, and he does ask her if she has “ever had to kill anybody,” as if trying to draw some parallels between the murder of Trayvon Martin and her job as a trained law enforcement agent. She seemed a bit perplexed/annoyed to me and answered “no/nope.” Real law enforcement agents are trained to use deadly force as a last resort, not a first option. So this is lie #2 given by George Zimmerman at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing.



George Zimmerman perjuring himself under oath about what was said to Serino/others:


DE LA RIONDA: But before you committed this crime on February 26th, you were arrested -- I'm sorry, not arrested. You were questioned that day, right, February 26th?
ZIMMERMAN: That evening into the 27th.
DE LA RIONDA: And then the following morning. Is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And the following evening, too. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?
ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"?
O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.
JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.
DE LA RIONDA: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?
JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.
O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.
DE LA RIONDA: Would you agree you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
Zimmerman’s most egregious lie is above. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman about how many statements he gave. Zimmerman replies. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman if he said “I don’t remember?” when Serino/Singleton poked holes in his account of what happened, using the non-emergency phone call to do so, and Zimmerman replied matter-of-factly, “Absolutely not.” Folks, that is the third lie to His Honor’s Court. George Zimmerman Legal Case has the audio still up. It is up for anyone who wants to listen to it. Make no mistake, when asked about things that didn’t add up, Zimmerman would say “I don’t know/I don’t remember.” When it was clear that Serino/Singleton were playing bad cop or no longer believed him, Zimmerman got defensive, lied, and omitted facts. He told the dispatcher he was following Trayvon. On the February 29, 2012, part 3 of the interview with Serino/Singleton; he said he wasn’t following, but walking in the same direction. When asked what type of running Trayvon was doing, he said he couldn’t remember/didn’t know. When asked why he got out of his car, Singleton bluntly said, “That isn’t what you told me.”


George Zimmerman is going to assert an affirmative defense in his second-degree murder trial. If Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to the truth in His Honor’s Court, I wouldn’t be making any long term plans for the future unless they included a prison facility.
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html


http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/V/4/George-Zimmerman-Stand-Grou.jpg


Zimmerman Defense Witnesses Undercut Defense On Cross-Examination At Second Bond Hearing
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/zimmerman-defense-witnesses-undercut.html

Character & Credibility: The Zimmerman Family
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/character-credibility-zimmerman-family.html

George Zimmerman Will Not Tell The Truth

http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html

[natina]

Jerome Ersland Gets Life for Gunning Down 16-Year-Old Drug Store Robber

SEE VIDEO

On today's episode of Great Moral Dilemmas of the Day (http://www.truecrimereport.com/search.php?tag=Great+Moral+Dilemmas+of+the+Day&blog_id=149), we bring you the perplexing case of a vigilante pharmacist. The year was 2009, and Jerome Ersland was working at Reliable Pharmacy, the store he owned in Oklahoma City. It would not be a good day...

Two armed punks came in and tried to rob the store. Ersland, not a druggist to be trifled with, pulled out a gun and shot 16-year-old Antwun Parker in the head.

Video of the incident shows the second mope fleeing. Ersland follows him out of the store, but the bad guy is already gone.

It would seem an open and shut case of self-defense -- until security cameras depict what happened next.

Erland returned to the store and could be seen digging for something behind the counter. Then he retrieved another gun and methodically moved toward Parker, who was laying wounded on the floor. Just to make sure Parker lost his interest in robbery, Ersland pumped him full of five more bullets, killing him.

In Oklahoma City, he was hailed as a hero for taking out a bad guy. Parker's accomplices, Anthony Morrison and Emanuel Mitchell, were subsequently convicted of first-degree murder in the death of their friend, plus conspiracy for organizing the heist.

But jurors didn't seem so enthralled with Ersland once they learned the full breadth of the incident. In court, his defense was hoping to shoot for a manslaughter charge. The jury decided instead to convict him of murder.

He won't be sentenced till July 11, but he faces the possibility of life with parole.

So what do you think, dearest reader? Was this a case of a man simply protecting himself and his employees? Or was this merely a cold-blooded execution disguised as heroism?

SEE VIDEO

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/05/jerome_ersland_gets_life_for_g.php

[GroobySteven]

the black kid was at fault because of how he represented himself with the hood and everything.

Are you fucking kidding. It was raining. He wore his hood up. I do that.

[natina]

many people wear hoodies ,beenies and or ski mask in the rain.

zimmerman just has issues that rewuire 25 years to life in prison to help resolve.

HEY CHECK OUT THE ZIMMERMAN TRANSCRIPTS ABOVE OR BELOW!
HEAR THE DA EXAMINE ZIMMERMAN AND HE GETS CAUGHT IN A TANGLED WEB


http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html


http://www.idgara.net/web4.jpghttp://evertb.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/web.jpg

[Stavros]

I don't understand how someone on bail for murder can be allowed to appear on TV to give his side of the story before the trial has even taken place. I am trying to think if it has happened in a criminal case in the UK but I can't recall one. Just today a policeman who was accused of causing the death of a man who was drunk in the middle of a demonstration, and, having been struck by the policeman fell to the ground and died shortly thereafter, was found not guilty by a jury. But the court was not given a history of the policeman's record prior to the incident, which shows that he had been disciplined for violent actions against suspects so many times some felt he should not even be on the force. The point being that a trial must be about the event regardless of the personal histories of the people involved before it.

If you want to read about it, its here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9404721/Ian-Tomlinson-what-jury-didnt-know-about-Pc-Simon-Harwood.html

[Stavros]

I don't understand how someone on bail for murder can be allowed to appear on TV to give his side of the story before the trial has even taken place. I am trying to think if it has happened in a criminal case in the UK but I can't recall one. Just today a policeman who was accused of causing the death of a man who was drunk in the middle of a demonstration, and, having been struck by the policeman fell to the ground and died shortly thereafter, was found not guilty by a jury. But the court was not given a history of the policeman's record prior to the incident, which shows that he had been disciplined for violent actions against suspects so many times some felt he should not even be on the force. The point being that a trial must be about the event regardless of the personal histories of the people involved before it.

If you want to read about it, its here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9404721/Ian-Tomlinson-what-jury-didnt-know-about-Pc-Simon-Harwood.html

I should add, found not guilty of manslaughter.

[Queens Guy]

I don't understand how someone on bail for murder can be allowed to appear on TV to give his side of the story before the trial has even taken place. I am trying to think if it has happened in a criminal case in the UK but I can't recall one. Just today a policeman who was accused of causing the death of a man who was drunk in the middle of a demonstration, and, having been struck by the policeman fell to the ground and died shortly thereafter, was found not guilty by a jury. But the court was not given a history of the policeman's record prior to the incident, which shows that he had been disciplined for violent actions against suspects so many times some felt he should not even be on the force. The point being that a trial must be about the event regardless of the personal histories of the people involved before it.

If you want to read about it, its here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9404721/Ian-Tomlinson-what-jury-didnt-know-about-Pc-Simon-Harwood.html


Generally speaking, in the US the lawyer for the accused would strongly advise him to not discuss the case to anybody, much less to give an interview on TV. I think some lawyers have even asked judges for permission to drop a client because of them not following this advice.

I think the US has different rules than the UK does about what the media can report about a case before the verdict. Can the UK media report the kind of things that the US media has been reporting? Or are they not allowed to?

Even under US rules, this case is very different than the average case. This case is very much a trial by media, where the media has had to retract some of their reports, which were the result of their own technical analysis of audio and videotape, which they had complete control over, as opposed to an interview with a witness.

The chance of finding a juror who hasn't heard about this case is very slim. So, the defense is trying to let those potential jurors hear things that are favorable to the defense. Make Zimmerman less of 'a monster'.

Also, if he is seen as less of 'a monster', it decreases the chance of riots if he is eventually found not guilty.

[EvonRose]

Are you fucking kidding. It was raining. He wore his hood up. I do that.

Seanchai! I am on Trayvon's side please read the whole paragraph in this case maybe you wouldn't misunderstand.

[yodajazz]

Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.

If I follow you in the middle of the night in my car, get out and chase after you on foot and then YOU smack me in the face, afterwards I don't have the justification to claim 'self defense' and shoot you dead through the heart.

Eliminate race, pretend Trayvon is a close loved one in your family, then ask yourself was your loved one's death justified or fair because a stranger decided to follow them home because they looked 'suspicious'??

Does that make sense?

At the time of the murder, Zimmerman outweighed this kid by FORTY POUNDS, despite being roughly 4 inches shorter than Trayvon.

This was murder by a paranoid vigilante, plain and simple.

Exactly! It is reasonable, to think that if an physical altercation ocurred, then it was Martin, was defending himself against a person pursuing him. The very fact that Martin is now dead, is evidence, that he had a right to fear, the person pursuing him. Let's look a Zimmeerman's story. Was there any real evidence that Martin had committed a crime? Perhaps if there had been a break-in in the neighborhood within an half hour of the shooting incident, then Zimmerman's suspicions would appear to be be more reasonable. Or perhaps, if Maritn were carrying a household item, such a video game console. Zimmerman's thoughts and actions of following Martin, were not based the actual real situation, but a figment of his mental state.

[Stavros]

Generally speaking, in the US the lawyer for the accused would strongly advise him to not discuss the case to anybody, much less to give an interview on TV. I think some lawyers have even asked judges for permission to drop a client because of them not following this advice.

I think the US has different rules than the UK does about what the media can report about a case before the verdict. Can the UK media report the kind of things that the US media has been reporting? Or are they not allowed to?

Even under US rules, this case is very different than the average case. This case is very much a trial by media, where the media has had to retract some of their reports, which were the result of their own technical analysis of audio and videotape, which they had complete control over, as opposed to an interview with a witness.

The chance of finding a juror who hasn't heard about this case is very slim. So, the defense is trying to let those potential jurors hear things that are favorable to the defense. Make Zimmerman less of 'a monster'.

Also, if he is seen as less of 'a monster', it decreases the chance of riots if he is eventually found not guilty.

Trial by media is common here, but I don't know of accused in criminal trials being given an opportunity to tell their story on tv before the trial begins. Reportage tends to take place in the newspapers before any proceedings have begun when even the more lurid papers such as Murdoch's Sun, will use words like 'allegedly' and 'according to police sources' when referring to someone under questioning -even if it turns out later they are innocent. More serious is the way that the press in a desperate attempt to get readers can stray over the boundaries; two tabloids, the Mirror and the Daily Mail were this week found guilty of contempt of court for publishing a story about a man already found guilty of murder, whose trial for abduction of another young woman was halted because of the prejudicial content of the articles -the papers will be fined at a later date, the report on it is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/18/mail-mirror-levi-bellfield?INTCMP=SRCH

Another example is that the judge in a trial of people accused of rioting in the UK last year, used his powers to stop the BBC from broadcasting two documentaries this week on the riots in case they prejudiced the outcome in court, the report on that is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jul/19/riot-murder-judge-bbc-broadcast-documentaries?newsfeed=true

The Courts take prejudice very seriously here, even if the media tries to get round it with as much sensational coverage as they can before the trial, and often to bad effect, too many innocent people have had their lives ruined by the outrageous needs of the press for lurid stories. Note that this only applies to England and Wales, as Scotland has its own legal system.

[dabaldone]

Exactly! It is reasonable, to think that if an physical altercation ocurred, then it was Martin, was defending himself against a person pursuing him. The very fact that Martin is now dead, is evidence, that he had a right to fear, the person pursuing him. Let's look a Zimmeerman's story. Was there any real evidence that Martin had committed a crime? Perhaps if there had been a break-in in the neighborhood within an half hour of the shooting incident, then Zimmerman's suspicions would appear to be be more reasonable. Or perhaps, if Maritn were carrying a household item, such a video game console. Zimmerman's thoughts and actions of following Martin, were not based the actual real situation, but a figment of his mental state.


Thank you for this comment. A tall kid being followed by an unknown person who was not law enforcement. I have a teenaged and a grown son. If someone stalked and killed my son, there wouldn't be a court date. Zimmerman has the nerve to say "it was God's plan" for him to kill this boy. Anyone who thinks that's okay has mental issues.

[eccentricBlue]

Seanchai! I am on Trayvon's side please read the whole paragraph in this case maybe you wouldn't misunderstand.

You should only be on the side of truth and justice which hasnt been decided by a jury yet.

[Silcc69]

You should only be on the side of truth and justice which hasnt been decided by a jury yet.

How much did you donate to Zimmerman?

[GroobySteven]

You should only be on the side of truth and justice which hasnt been decided by a jury yet.


There have been plenty of executions decided by a jury and found o have been wrong. There is a simple right and wrong. Killing somebody needlessly, is clearly wrong. You are part of the God Squad ... don't you have "Though shall not kill" ?

[runningdownthatdream]

There have been plenty of executions decided by a jury and found o have been wrong. There is a simple right and wrong. Killing somebody needlessly, is clearly wrong. You are part of the God Squad ... don't you have "Though shall not kill" ?

Come now, you know that all their bible bullshit is adapted for convenience. The God Squad uses what they want when they want and how they want to justify to themselves their own inappropriate and often repulsive behavior. Modern 'Christians' have mastered the art of NewSpeak.......Orwell couldn't have created them if he tried. They far surpass any of the mind-control freaks he did create.

[EvonRose]

You should only be on the side of truth and justice which hasnt been decided by a jury yet.

justice sometimes has no truth, it's time for people to use commonsense.

[runningdownthatdream]

You should only be on the side of truth and justice which hasnt been decided by a jury yet.

'Truth and Justice'??? 'Decided by a Jury'????? You're kidding right? Or just out of high school? The only damn truth and justice is found in books and Hollywood - it is a self-perpetuating fiction.

[eccentricBlue]

justice sometimes has no truth, it's time for people to use commonsense.

Just imagine of common sense was more common.... lol. But I agree, the justice system is in no way perfect, however I just don't want to buy into the hysteria on either side. Some people disagree with me and go straight into attack mode, however cooler heads must prevail because 2 wrongs never make a right. Race should not be a factor so I refuse to let that sway my opinion.

[EvonRose]

Just imagine of common sense was more common.... lol. But I agree, the justice system is in no way perfect, however I just don't want to buy into the hysteria on either side. Some people disagree with me and go straight into attack mode, however cooler heads must prevail because 2 wrongs never make a right. Race should not be a factor so I refuse to let that sway my opinion.


But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?

[eccentricBlue]

I believe he was giving a description of the suspect to 911. That's not racial profiling. It is obvious after the initial reports that national media outlets pounced on this story because they believed Zimmerman was white. So once again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[timxxx]

But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?

Arguing with online morons is pointless,they are impervious to reason or fact.

[EvonRose]

I believe he was giving a description of the suspect to 911. That's not racial profiling. It is obvious after the initial reports that national media outlets pounced on this story because they believed Zimmerman was white. So once again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

When the cops told him to leave him alone he still pursued it...

Tray did not do anything wrong to make it a two to tango situation. Zimmerman is mentally unstable, and it is proven by his doctor he is suffering post traumatic stress. There is only one crazy person, only one thug, and only one killer. That's not Trayvon.

[eccentricBlue]

lol. I'm not defending Zimmerman, nor am I defending Trayvon. I won't claim to be a doctor, nor will I make baseless attacks because someone doesn't agree with me. I just feel the media trial has ruined any chance of impartiality.

[trish]

lol. I'm not defending Zimmerman, nor am I defending Trayvon. But you do claim to know the content of Zimmerman's mind when you say was merely, "giving a description of the suspect." There is no way of knowing that to Zimmerman this was merely a description without the freight of discrimination. It is merely what you surmise. The fact that you use the word "suspect" also plays right into Zimmerman's POV. It is a word that carries it's own freight.


I just feel the media trial has ruined any chance of impartiality.It was the police and the prosecutor whose appearance of partiality nearly lead to a miscarriage of justice; i.e. letting Zimmerman off without a trail. It was this clear injustice that attracted the press and initiated public outcry. As far a the possibility of a fair jury goes, I'm sure there are at least 12 posters right here in this thread who are as unbiased as you.

What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.

[eccentricBlue]

But you do claim to know the content of Zimmerman's mind when you say was merely, "giving a description of the suspect." There is no way of knowing that to Zimmerman this was merely a description without the freight of discrimination. It is merely what you surmise. The fact that you use the word "suspect" also plays right into Zimmerman's POV. It is a word that carries it's own freight.

That sure is one far stretch to try and nail me on a position I've never taken. View it how you want, but calling him a suspect does not prove anybody's POV since he was responding to "suspicious activity". Stating a persons race happens all the time when reporting anything to the authorities, so what you consider racism (or implied racism) doesn't hold much merit.

It was the police and the prosecutor whose appearance of partiality nearly lead to a miscarriage of justice; i.e. letting Zimmerman off without a trail. It was this clear injustice that attracted the press and initiated public outcry. As far a the possibility of a fair jury goes, I'm sure there are at least 12 posters right here in this thread who are as unbiased as you.

What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.

The police's error in this case does not change a person's innocence or guilt. Florida has some laxed (sp) firearm laws and right to defend yourself laws which I am not fully familiar with. However if there was clear intent to harm, I doubt he would have been released. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in innocence until proven guilty. (even though I stated earlier that the justice system is not perfect).

[Queens Guy]

What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.

Trish, I think that information was released when Angela Corey, the 'new' prosecutor, who brought the murder charges against Zimmerman discussed and released all of that information. The lead detective of the Sanford P.D. wanted to arrest Zimmerman, but the original or local prosecutors office over-ruled the detective and Sanford P.D.

Considering the Sanford P.D. wanted to arrest Zimmerman the night of the shooting, I think they've gotten a bad wrap. They got Zimmerman to talk and not 'lawyer up'. He talked in the interrogation room and on videotape at the crime scene the next morning. He talked for hours. All of that will be valuable evidence at the trial. It's not just the detectives notes of what he said, it's Zimmerman himself, in his own voice on video.

IMO, it's the original prosecutors fault for not arresting Zimmerman that night, or the next morning after that videotaped interview. I might understand waiting for the toxicology results to come back on Trayvon. I wouldn't have if I was the prosecutor, but I might understand that. But, once those results came back clean, Zimmerman should have been arrested and forced to tell his story to a judge and jury.

[Queens Guy]

Trial by media is common here, but I don't know of accused in criminal trials being given an opportunity to tell their story on tv before the trial begins. Reportage tends to take place in the newspapers before any proceedings have begun when even the more lurid papers such as Murdoch's Sun, will use words like 'allegedly' and 'according to police sources' when referring to someone under questioning -even if it turns out later they are innocent. More serious is the way that the press in a desperate attempt to get readers can stray over the boundaries; two tabloids, the Mirror and the Daily Mail were this week found guilty of contempt of court for publishing a story about a man already found guilty of murder, whose trial for abduction of another young woman was halted because of the prejudicial content of the articles -the papers will be fined at a later date, the report on it is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/18/mail-mirror-levi-bellfield?INTCMP=SRCH

Another example is that the judge in a trial of people accused of rioting in the UK last year, used his powers to stop the BBC from broadcasting two documentaries this week on the riots in case they prejudiced the outcome in court, the report on that is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jul/19/riot-murder-judge-bbc-broadcast-documentaries?newsfeed=true

The Courts take prejudice very seriously here, even if the media tries to get round it with as much sensational coverage as they can before the trial, and often to bad effect, too many innocent people have had their lives ruined by the outrageous needs of the press for lurid stories. Note that this only applies to England and Wales, as Scotland has its own legal system.


In the US, the courts don't have any such power over the media. The courts can order the police, the lawyers, and the person accused of the crime to not discuss certain things, but the media has free reign.

And, since the media can't be forced to identify their source, those parties can leak the information, anyway. As long as they cover their tracks, there isn't much the court can do. You can suspect one side of the leak, but in a case like this, who's to say the media didn't plant a microphone or a camera? If there's money to be made, we've seen they are willing to hack into phones and e-mail accounts.

The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime. I'm sure the Duke Lacrosse Team would agree .

[Stavros]

The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime

That is debatable -before a trial, the press can report as much sensational detail as they can, some go as far to the edge as they can, and in the process ruin the reputations of innocent people who have been wrongly accused and may not even be charged. In Bristol a few years ago, the landlord of a house in which a young woman was murdered was effectively accused by the tabloids of being the murderer -he had been questioned by police and the press leapt on his 'eccentric' appearance -he had fluffy blueish hair, had been a teacher of English at the nearby and prestigious Clifton College -but eventually he was not charged by the police and the press were exposed as over-zealous and the man sued them, and received substantial damages. The Leveson Enquiry currently taking place is investigating the various methods the press use to access information for their stories -bribing the police to access private data, using private detectives to hack into phones and computers -yes, once a trial begins the coverage has to report it to the letter, which is why when you look back innocence looks betrayed, and that doesn't cover those convicted who spent years in prison for crimes they did not commit -we may have laws preventing the kind of media coverage we have seen with Zimmerman over there, but our system is far from ideal.

[Donkey]

But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?
You are a prime example of how the media has "poisoned the well" by not only attempting to try this case in the media, but doing so in an extremely fraudulent and unethical manner.

Those recordings that you remember were intentionally, fraudulently edited by NBC News. NBC later fired a producer over the issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/jon-stewart-blasts-nbc-george-zimmerman-911-edit-video_n_1414200.html

[trish]

Poison the well? If it were not for the media there wouldn't be a trial; i.e. there'd be no well to poison!

[Queens Guy]

The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime

That is debatable -before a trial, the press can report as much sensational detail as they can, some go as far to the edge as they can, and in the process ruin the reputations of innocent people who have been wrongly accused and may not even be charged. In Bristol a few years ago, the landlord of a house in which a young woman was murdered was effectively accused by the tabloids of being the murderer -he had been questioned by police and the press leapt on his 'eccentric' appearance -he had fluffy blueish hair, had been a teacher of English at the nearby and prestigious Clifton College -but eventually he was not charged by the police and the press were exposed as over-zealous and the man sued them, and received substantial damages. The Leveson Enquiry currently taking place is investigating the various methods the press use to access information for their stories -bribing the police to access private data, using private detectives to hack into phones and computers -yes, once a trial begins the coverage has to report it to the letter, which is why when you look back innocence looks betrayed, and that doesn't cover those convicted who spent years in prison for crimes they did not commit -we may have laws preventing the kind of media coverage we have seen with Zimmerman over there, but our system is far from ideal.

Stavros, I didn't mean it was good, or fair. I just meant it was better than it is here in the U.S. All of that stuff can be done here, too. And it doesn't get any better once the trial starts.

And it's not just the tabloids over here. It's the supposedly 'respectable' media over here. NBC/MSNBC, ABC, and CNN have been the offenders in this shooting.

[buttslinger]

Hey Sean Hannity!
If I'm ever up on murder charges....???
Don't Help Me!!!!

[EvonRose]

You are a prime example of how the media has "poisoned the well" by not only attempting to try this case in the media, but doing so in an extremely fraudulent and unethical manner.

Those recordings that you remember were intentionally, fraudulently edited by NBC News. NBC later fired a producer over the issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/jon-stewart-blasts-nbc-george-zimmerman-911-edit-video_n_1414200.html

But i don't think when the cops told him to leave the kid alone was edited, or the fact that Trayvon really didn't have anything on him to even be a threat, or that that Zimmerman even had the right to carry a gun or shoot as a neighborhood watch for the matter. It was irresponsible, negligent, and still murder at the end of the day regardless if you believe it to be race issue or not.

[Donkey]

But i don't think when the cops told him to leave the kid alone was edited, or the fact that Trayvon really didn't have anything on him to even be a threat, or that that Zimmerman even had the right to carry a gun or shoot as a neighborhood watch for the matter. It was irresponsible, negligent, and still murder at the end of the day regardless if you believe it to be race issue or not.
Your comments are exactly why it so dangerous to try a case like this in the court of public opinion. You have almost no knowledge of the facts of the case or, more importantly, the law.

1. Listen to the call. The police did not tell Zimmerman to leave Martin alone. But, even if they had, it does not change the facts of the case. It's a moot issue.
2. Martin became a threat the moment he assaulted Zimmerman.
3. As an American, Zimmerman absolutely had the right, as a licensee, to carry his gun. He also had the right to use it, of course.
4. Please learn what constitutes murder in the US judicial system.

[EvonRose]

Your comments are exactly why it so dangerous to try a case like this in the court of public opinion. You have almost no knowledge of the facts of the case or, more importantly, the law.

1. Listen to the call. The police did not tell Zimmerman to leave Martin alone. But, even if they had, it does not change the facts of the case. It's a moot issue.
2. Martin became a threat the moment he assaulted Zimmerman.
3. As an American, Zimmerman absolutely had the right, as a licensee, to carry his gun. He also had the right to use it, of course.
4. Please learn what constitutes murder in the US judicial system.

Wait hold on...they can't even prove trayvon even hit him, Zimmerman just claimed that, there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman. Why would you walk up to a kid with the intention of a violent altercation and then shoot an unarmed kid? Do you know everything about the case? It's okay if we don't i don't think we all know 100 percent. However I'm looking at the points against Zimmerman.

Answer this....

Why or how was trayvon ever a threat? Did he have gun? or did he break into a house or rob the candy store he bought the candy from? Or assaulted anyone without cause? Or rape someone? or vandalized?

So why then was he shot? Zimmerman has been in the military I'm sorry but there is a way to injure someone without actually killing them IF trayvon really was assaulting him. He is trained better than that I'm sure. Looking at probability the military trained man would have easily restrained or subdues the skinny kid down. Sorry but I don't agree, Zimmerman is very much guilty of murder or at least 2nd degree...

[Queens Guy]

Wait hold on...they can't even prove trayvon even hit him, Zimmerman just claimed that, there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman. Why would you walk up to a kid with the intention of a violent altercation and then shoot an unarmed kid? Do you know everything about the case? It's okay if we don't i don't think we all know 100 percent. However I'm looking at the points against Zimmerman.

Answer this....

Why or how was trayvon ever a threat? Did he have gun? or did he break into a house or rob the candy store he bought the candy from? Or assaulted anyone without cause? Or rape someone? or vandalized?

So why then was he shot? Zimmerman has been in the military I'm sorry but there is a way to injure someone without actually killing them IF trayvon really was assaulting him. He is trained better than that I'm sure. Looking at probability the military trained man would have easily restrained or subdues the skinny kid down. Sorry but I don't agree, Zimmerman is very much guilty of murder or at least 2nd degree...

George Zimmerman may have indeed committed a crime that night, but. . .

1. The autopsy report showed injuries to Trayvon's knuckles. Pictures and a medical report document injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head. Do you think Zimmerman beat himself up?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57436083-504083/trayvon-martin-shooting-autopsy-results-say-slain-teen-had-injuries-to-his-knuckles/

2. I've never heard that George Zimmerman was in the military. His father and grandfather were. Where did you read GZ was in the military?

[Donkey]

Evon, you make one factually incorrect statement after another about this case. Please put your emotions aside and take an objective look at the facts of the case, as well as the US laws that will be applicable to this case.

[EvonRose]

George Zimmerman may have indeed committed a crime that night, but. . .

1. The autopsy report showed injuries to Trayvon's knuckles. Pictures and a medical report document injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head. Do you think Zimmerman beat himself up?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57436083-504083/trayvon-martin-shooting-autopsy-results-say-slain-teen-had-injuries-to-his-knuckles/

2. I've never heard that George Zimmerman was in the military. His father and grandfather were. Where did you read GZ was in the military?

Wasn't it also stated in reports that zimmerman followed trayvon with a vehicle and then got off and chased after him? If Trayvon punched Zimmerman is it possible to think that Trayvon may have felt threatened with an adult male coming after him when he had no clue what was going on, He was just staying at his dad'd fiancee's house in the neighborhood. What would you do if a man just chased after you for no reason, isn't that threatening and unsettling? especially for a kid walking alone?

[Queens Guy]

Wasn't it also stated in reports that zimmerman followed trayvon with a vehicle and then got off and chased after him? If Trayvon punched Zimmerman is it possible to think that Trayvon may have felt threatened with an adult male coming after him when he had no clue what was going on, He was just staying at his dad'd fiancee's house in the neighborhood. What would you do if a man just chased after you for no reason, isn't that threatening and unsettling? especially for a kid walking alone?

I didn't say GZ is not guilty.

I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.

But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.

Why make stuff up?

[AmyDaly]

I didn't say GZ is not guilty.

I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.

But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.

Why make stuff up?
You are talking to someone who is notorious for making things up.

[EvonRose]

I didn't say GZ is not guilty.

I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.

But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.

Why make stuff up?

No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...


Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!

[AmyDaly]

No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...


Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!

lol evon. I see you haven't changed. Still a complete moron. So funny how butt hurt you get when people point out all of your bull shit. You can say any thing you want over the internet, I don't care. After reading all the things that were posted about you here and other places, there is nothing you can say that will bother me. Hopefully Seanchai just bans you and does away with you and all the crap you start with people here.

[natina]

LOL LOL LOL lol lol lol


No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...


Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!:kiss::banana::iagree::dancing::Bowdown:

[EvonRose]

lol evon. I see you haven't change. Still a complete moron.

Well until you stop starting shit like you always do, then come talk to me about changing! Your nose is taking up the screen on your avatar change it pinnocio!

[bobvela]

No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case.

Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:

there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman

If that isn't making something up... then what is it?


If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...

Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.

More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?

Didn't stop these two morons (http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-man-71-shoots-alleged-robbers-internet-cafe/story?id=16800859) from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.

The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and play their luck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime).

[AmyDaly]

Well until you stop starting shit like you always do, then come talk to me about changing! Your nose is taking up the screen on your avatar change it pinnocio!

lol...here we go. Lets hear more. Give me all you got. :banana:

[EvonRose]

Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:

there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman

If that isn't making something up... then what is it?



Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.

More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?

Didn't stop these two morons (http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-man-71-shoots-alleged-robbers-internet-cafe/story?id=16800859) from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.

The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and play their luck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime).

I admit, i read that article it was probably inaccurate...

I would have ran like trayvon did, that actually was a fact...

[bobvela]

I admit, i read that article it was probably inaccurate...

There is your first mistake... reading a single article.


I would have ran like trayvon did, that actually was a fact...

A fact? Says who/what? Another single, possibly inaccurate article?

So from what you are saying... it sounds like you think Mr Martin was running (for his life) and Mr Zimmerman caught up and then the physical confrontation occurred?

What if... Mr Martin doubled back (http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back)? Has that possibility never entered your mind? Why not? The available evidence at least supports the possibility.

I'll tell you a little secrets... you have few facts... neither do I... only two people know exactly what happened that night and one of them is dead... however with a little logic and research one can begin to piece together what happened and arrive at a plausible scenario... something you (and several here) have refused to do.

[EvonRose]

There is your first mistake... reading a single article.



A fact? Says who/what? Another single, possibly inaccurate article?

So from what you are saying... it sounds like you think Mr Martin was running (for his life) and Mr Zimmerman caught up and then the physical confrontation occurred?

What if... Mr Martin doubled back (http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back)?

I'll tell you a little secrets... you have few facts... neither do I... only two people know exactly what happened that night and one of them is dead... however with a little logic and research one can begin to piece together what happened and arrive at a plausible scenario... something you (and several here) have refused to do.

its actually on police record look it up... and many witness account.

[bobvela]

its actually on police record look it up... and many witness account.

What is? Which part of the record? Which witness account?

You will please note that I have linked to multiple sources (both this evening and previously)... and yet here you've linked to what? oh yes... butkus useful or relevant information.

I could be wrong... but it does look like you are making stuff up (again).

[natina]

actually tHEY FOUND THAT MARTIN HAD BRUISES ON AT LEAST ONE KNUCLE but TRAYVON MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO DEFEND HISSELF.

Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed

WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012

Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn

zimmerman charges pdf


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/11/zimmerman.charges.pdf

zimmerman got out of vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html





FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION





"zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol and pursued/stalked Travon Martin a minor who was doing nothing illegal and WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/?gt1=43001


Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:

there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman

If that isn't making something up... then what is it?



Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.

More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?

Didn't stop these two morons (http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-man-71-shoots-alleged-robbers-internet-cafe/story?id=16800859) from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.

The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and play their luck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime).


fire fighter pulls a zimmerman over loud music;

Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YIcVGcq_A)


Texas man gets 40 years in stand-your-ground case

HOUSTON -- Retired Texas firefighter Raul Rodriguez, armed with a handgun and video camera, had claimed he was standing his ground and had no choice but to use deadly force when he fatally shot his unarmed neighbor after confronting him about a noisy party.

A jury decided otherwise Wednesday, sentencing Rodriguez to 40 years in prison for killing the neighbor, Kelly Danaher, a 36-year-old elementary school teacher. Prosecutors said they are hopeful the punishment will stop others from settling matters with violence and trying to use Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law as a defense.

"I think it sends a clear message that this was not a case of stand-your-ground," said prosecutor Kelli Johnson. "And I think from his behavior, his intent, the provocation ... shows that this had ... nothing to do with self-defense."

Rodriguez, who faced up to life in prison for the 2010 killing, will be eligible for parole in 20 years. Jurors deliberated about five hours Wednesday before reaching their verdict. The same jury convicted him of murder on June 13.

His reference to standing his ground was similar to the claim made by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.

During closing arguments earlier Wednesday in the trial's punishment phase, Johnson referenced Zimmerman but told jurors that case was different from what Rodriguez was convicted of doing.

In a 22-minute video he recorded that night, Rodriguez can be heard telling a police dispatcher "my life is in danger now" and "these people are going to go try and kill me." He then said, "I'm standing my ground here," and fatally shot Danaher and wounded the other two men.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2870148/texan-in-stand-your-ground-case.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy


Jerome Ersland Gets Life for Gunning Down 16-Year-Old Drug Store Robber

On today's episode of Great Moral Dilemmas of the Day, we bring you the perplexing case of a vigilante pharmacist. The year was 2009, and Jerome Ersland was working at Reliable Pharmacy, the store he owned in Oklahoma City. It would not be a good day...

Two armed punks came in and tried to rob the store. Ersland, not a druggist to be trifled with, pulled out a gun and shot 16-year-old Antwun Parker in the head.

Video of the incident shows the second mope fleeing. Ersland follows him out of the store, but the bad guy is already gone.

It would seem an open and shut case of self-defense -- until security cameras depict what happened next.

Erland returned to the store and could be seen digging for something behind the counter. Then he retrieved another gun and methodically moved toward Parker, who was laying wounded on the floor. Just to make sure Parker lost his interest in robbery, Ersland pumped him full of five more bullets, killing him.

In Oklahoma City, he was hailed as a hero for taking out a bad guy. Parker's accomplices, Anthony Morrison and Emanuel Mitchell, were subsequently convicted of first-degree murder in the death of their friend, plus conspiracy for organizing the heist.

But jurors didn't seem so enthralled with Ersland once they learned the full breadth of the incident. In court, his defense was hoping to shoot for a manslaughter charge. The jury decided instead to convict him of murder.

He won't be sentenced till July 11, but he faces the possibility of life with parole.

So what do you think, dearest reader? Was this a case of a man simply protecting himself and his employees? Or was this merely a cold-blooded execution disguised as heroism?

SEE VIDEO



http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/05/jerome_ersland_gets_life_for_g.php

[Silcc69]

It's amazing how many right wing nuts are on a tranny forum.

[AmyDaly]

It's amazing how many right wing nuts are on a tranny forum.
I think its amazing how this has turned in to a liberal vs conservative or right vs left wing thing. It just goes to show how the media and government likes to use these social issues to turn people against each other. I also don't believe that just because you think one way or the other about this situation that it makes you right or left wing.

[Silcc69]

I think its amazing how this has turned in to a liberal vs conservative or right vs left wing thing. It just goes to show how the media and government likes to use these social issues to turn people against each other. I also don't believe that just because you think one way or the other about this situation that it makes you right or left wing.

Well you know what conservatives think of porn and well transsexuals. Needless if it were up to them this site would've been shutdown.

[EvonRose]

What is? Which part of the record? Which witness account?

You will please note that I have linked to multiple sources (both this evening and previously)... and yet here you've linked to what? oh yes... butkus useful or relevant information.

I could be wrong... but it does look like you are making stuff up (again).

Actually I'm not on this one, there were strong sources to say otherwise.... Refer to Natina. I also read it on Wikipedia months ago, But I don't know how accurate that is. I am just saying what I read no need to get nasty.

[AmyDaly]

Sources: Wikipedia and Natina

[EvonRose]

Sources: Wikipedia and Natina

Lol what is your problem? You really are a condescending fat child... No one attacked you sweetie, so whatever you have against me let it go!

[bobvela]

natina, you too prove what happens when one only reads selective sources but doesn't think for themselves.


actually tHEY FOUND THAT MARTIN HAD BRUISES ON AT LEAST ONE KNUCLE but TRAYVON MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO DEFEND HISSELF.

No one is saying he had no right to defend himself... however that right (like what Mr Zimmerman also had) does have limits.

During the time that Mr Zimmerman was pursuing Mr Martin... a good argument can be made for Mr Martin's right to defend himself... however if you consider my above link, suggesting that Mr Martin may have doubled back... the moment he turned around and approached Mr Zimmerman... his right to self-defense quickly goes away as he becomes an initiator.

Many like to say about Mr Zimmerman: "he should have stayed in his truck"... however if Mr Martin did double back... then a similar argument can be made: "he should have kept running home".



Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed

WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012

Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn

Present a specifc and quotable transcript or document or withdraw your worthless 'evidence'... doubly so when clicking on the link says "The requested video is not available.

Don't tell me you are using out of date sources?!?!!?


zimmerman charges pdf

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/11/zimmerman.charges.pdf

I've read it. What part do you wish to call attention to?


zimmerman got out of vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html

FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION

Again... I am looking for specific evidence from you that that happened. Don't just link me to an article, cite a specific FACT from something that said that Mr Zimmerman said "Hey boy, come over here... I think you are breaking the law... and even if you aren't... you're black so I want to shoot you!"

Could/did that happen? Perhaps... only you do not have the facts to support your claim that that unequivocally did happen.


"zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol and pursued/stalked Travon Martin a minor who was doing nothing illegal and WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/?gt1=43001

And I get out of my vehicle most days carrying a loaded 38... so what? Both Mr Zimmerman and I have permits to legally carry.

Now... you expand upon your copy and pasted 'argument' by saying that Mr Martin was a minor (irrelevant) who was doing nothing illegal (says you, but at the time he was looking suspicious to Mr Zimmerman (he must be a racist!!!))... and who was running away from Mr Zimmerman.

You will please recall from the 911 transcript that Mr Martin approached Mr Zimmerman’s vehicle... then ran. “Nyeh! Trayvon started it! He approced the racist Zimmerman first!”

Was Mr Martin doing anything illegal? We don't know... but it seems not. Was Mr Zimmerman? With the exception of the second-degree murder charge... it seems not as well.

More so... funny how you ignore a quote in that video which proceeds the one you transcribed:

"Its possible that the defense will be able to use this to indicate that Trayvon Martin was in some ways the aggressor. And if he was the aggressor, then of course their story will be that George Zimmerman was defending himself and which case he would be covered by stand your ground immunity"

Note I’ve ignored the continued copy and paste jobs you added after your initial post as more irrelevance.

[bobvela]

It's amazing how many right wing nuts are on a tranny forum.

So... I'm a right wing nut?

[AmyDaly]

Lol what is your problem? You really are a condescending fat child... No one attacked you sweetie, so whatever you have against me let it go!

Hey Nicolet, you seem to get awfully mad very easily. Just because I call you out when you are wrong on a message board doesn't mean you need to respond with personal insults. As you can see, I have pretty much refrained from them. You have a lot of issues that you need to work out. You stoop to the level of insulting other girls looks, voices, ect...when you have no intelligent defenses to your claims and opinions. You need to chill out and not take things so personal. You have a lot of personal information all around the internet and these message boards can take a turn for the worse sometimes when you get as angry and personal as you do.

TL;DR: You mad.

[natina]

I posted the affidavit that is a factual document.
its supported by facts

Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed

WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn


ARGUMENT FOR NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
Detective faulted George Zimmerman for not avoiding confrontation with Trayvon Martin.



Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman missed two opportunities to try to peacefully approach Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the unarmed teenager, according to an investigator's report released Tuesday.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," investigator Chris Serino wrote in an arrest warrant affidavit.

The affidavit was filed more than two weeks after the shooting when the Sanford Police Department was being criticized for not having arrested Zimmerman. Serino's March 13 affidavit recommended Zimmerman be picked up for manslaughter, but a special prosecutor assigned to take over the case upped the charge to second-degree murder.

The documents released Tuesday are part of the public pre-trial records filed in the criminal case.

Zimmerman, 28, maintains he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense under Florida's "stand your ground law." He said he fired the fatal shot only after being ambushed and brutally attacked by the 17-year-old.

The deadly encounter occurred in a gated Sanford, Fla., neighborhood where Zimmerman lived and Martin was staying with a family friend. Zimmerman called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person walking through the area. He told the operator Martin was "up to no good" and "has his hand in his waist band."

In the report released Tuesday, police say Zimmerman contradicted himself by saying that he was initially fearful of Martin but later got out of his vehicle and followed after the teen.

"His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject," Serino wrote.

The Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday afternoon that Serino, Sanford's lead investigator on the case, has been granted a request to move from detective work to patrol duty.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/detective-faulted-george-zimmerman-not-avoiding-confrontation-trayvon-192523670.html


natina, you too prove what happens when one only reads selective sources but doesn't think for themselves.



No one is saying he had no right to defend himself... however that right (like what Mr Zimmerman also had) does have limits.

During the time that Mr Zimmerman was pursuing Mr Martin... a good argument can be made for Mr Martin's right to defend himself... however if you consider my above link, suggesting that Mr Martin may have doubled back... the moment he turned around and approached Mr Zimmerman... his right to self-defense quickly goes away as he becomes an initiator.

Many like to say about Mr Zimmerman: "he should have stayed in his truck"... however if Mr Martin did double back... then a similar argument can be made: "he should have kept running home".




Present a specifc and quotable transcript or document or withdraw your worthless 'evidence'... doubly so when clicking on the link says "The requested video is not available.

Don't tell me you are using out of date sources?!?!!?



I've read it. What part do you wish to call attention to?



Again... I am looking for specific evidence from you that that happened. Don't just link me to an article, cite a specific FACT from something that said that Mr Zimmerman said "Hey boy, come over here... I think you are breaking the law... and even if you aren't... you're black so I want to shoot you!"

Could/did that happen? Perhaps... only you do not have the facts to support your claim that that unequivocally did happen.



And I get out of my vehicle most days carrying a loaded 38... so what? Both Mr Zimmerman and I have permits to legally carry.

Now... you expand upon your copy and pasted 'argument' by saying that Mr Martin was a minor (irrelevant) who was doing nothing illegal (says you, but at the time he was looking suspicious to Mr Zimmerman (he must be a racist!!!))... and who was running away from Mr Zimmerman.

You will please recall from the 911 transcript that Mr Martin approached Mr Zimmerman’s vehicle... then ran. “Nyeh! Trayvon started it! He approced the racist Zimmerman first!”

Was Mr Martin doing anything illegal? We don't know... but it seems not. Was Mr Zimmerman? With the exception of the second-degree murder charge... it seems not as well.

More so... funny how you ignore a quote in that video which proceeds the one you transcribed:

"Its possible that the defense will be able to use this to indicate that Trayvon Martin was in some ways the aggressor. And if he was the aggressor, then of course their story will be that George Zimmerman was defending himself and which case he would be covered by stand your ground immunity"

Note I’ve ignored the continued copy and paste jobs you added after your initial post as more irrelevance.

[natina]

who believes zimmermans account?

not many people only faux news views


NEW EVIDENCE AND VIDEO
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/justice/florida-zimmerman-interview/index.html

[EvonRose]

Hey Nicolet, you seem to get awfully mad very easily. Just because I call you out when you are wrong on a message board doesn't mean you need to respond with personal insults. As you can see, I have pretty much refrained from them. You have a lot of issues that you need to work out. You stoop to the level of insulting other girls looks, voices, ect...when you have no intelligent defenses to your claims and opinions. You need to chill out and not take things so personal. You have a lot of personal information all around the internet and these message boards can take a turn for the worse sometimes when you get as angry and personal as you do. TL;DR: You mad.

I have one major personal business IF it gets out it will not affect me tough I hope it does not.

A little advice of maturity, if you don't like a person you don't say condescending things to them. If not then be ready for what they got to say to you. Maybe you shouldn't take my mistakes too seriously that you make it your life to call me out on it. Your not perfect sweetie! So if I make a mistake, then let me apologize for it as I did below, I really don't need you to chastise me on things we all do. Don't be mad for something you started and kept pulling Amy.

Like i said whatever it is you have against me ( I have not don't anything to you) Then let it fucking go!

[AmyDaly]

I have one major personal business IF it gets out it will not affect me tough I hope it does not.

A little advice of maturity, if you don't like a person you don't say condescending things to them. If not then be ready for what they got to say to you. Maybe you shouldn't take my mistakes too seriously that you make it your life to call me out on it. Your not perfect sweetie! So if I make a mistake, then let me apologize for it as I did below, I really don't need you to chastise me on things we all do. Don't be mad for something you started and kept pulling Amy.

Like i said whatever it is you have against me ( I have not don't anything to you) Then let it fucking go!
I'm sorry, but I enjoy pointing out people's inaccuracies and hypocrisies. If you enjoy insulting peoples looks, and voices, and calling people drag queens, then I guess that is what you like to do. But when you are debating a topic about something and someone says something that is inaccurate, it is ok to tell them where they are wrong and point out where. You can always ignore me if you don't like reading what I have to say. But it no reason to start calling me names and insulting me unless I have done so to you, which I haven't. I will not stop pointing out yours or anyone elses incorrect statements because there is nothing wrong with that. If you want to argue back and point out where I am wrong, please do. I like to learn. If you want to get personal because being told you are wrong on the internet hurts your feelings, then fine, go ahead. Seanchai's been banning drama starters lately.

[bobvela]

I posted the affidavit that is a factual document.
its supported by facts

No... you linked to it... then copied and pasted from multiple sources without providing context, commentary or insights. A smart computer program could do what you have been doing... and still be more comprehensive and coherent than anything you've said in this thread.

[EvonRose]

I'm sorry, but I enjoy pointing out people's inaccuracies and hypocrisies. If you enjoy insulting peoples looks, and voices, and calling people drag queens, then I guess that is what you like to do. But when you are debating a topic about something and someone says something that is inaccurate, it is ok to tell them where they are wrong and point out where. You can always ignore me if you don't like reading what I have to say. But it no reason to start calling me names and insulting me unless I have done so to you, which I haven't. I will not stop pointing out yours or anyone elses incorrect statements because there is nothing wrong with that. If you want to argue back and point out where I am wrong, please do. I like to learn. If you want to get personal because being told you are wrong on the internet hurts your feelings, then fine, go ahead.

Well then you got issues Amy. lol I'm sorry for you....It's not that you pointed out my mistake, you could have done it in a mature manner like what the other guy did and I happily corrected my mistake. You are condescending and girl you know it, you have been since the very beginning with me. The rule applies to you to! If you don't want to hear me make mistakes, and to call you a pot belly pig, then ignore me too! I mean the truth hurts right?

[AmyDaly]

Well then you got issues Amy. lol I'm sorry for you....It's not that you pointed out my mistake, you could have done it in a mature manner like what the other guy did and I happily corrected my mistake. You are condescending and girl you know it, you have been since the very beginning with me. The rule applies to you to! If you don't want to hear me make mistakes, and to call you a pot belly pig, then ignore me too! I mean the truth hurts right?I'm autistic. It's what we do. Go cry to your family about it :cheers: Oh wait...

[GroobySteven]

I think its amazing how this has turned in to a liberal vs conservative or right vs left wing thing. It just goes to show how the media and government likes to use these social issues to turn people against each other. I also don't believe that just because you think one way or the other about this situation that it makes you right or left wing.

I think it does. Most gun nuts are to the right with anti-gun to the left and at the base of it, this is what this argument is about. Mix in the racism, the outraged white at another black man getting killed, the outraged white at not being able to kill a black man for wearing a hood and the outraged blacks looking for a cause then the issue of right wing versus left wing, certainly comes into it.
I'm anti-gun, I'm liberal in everything but fiscal and I believe that most people who are actively supporting Zimmerman and what to use the law to support him, are right-wing, gunloving fuckwits.

[EvonRose]

I'm autistic. It's what we do. Go cry to your family about it :cheers: Oh wait...

Figures, you look autistic. But now I can see why you hate the world so much!

[AmyDaly]

I think it does. Most gun nuts are to the right with anti-gun to the left and at the base of it, this is what this argument is about. Mix in the racism, the outraged white at another black man getting killed, the outraged white at not being able to kill a black man for wearing a hood and the outraged blacks looking for a cause then right wing versus left wing, certainly comes into it.
I'm anti-gun, I'm liberal in everything but fiscal and I believe that most people who are actively supporting Zimmerman and what to use the law to support him, are right-wing, gunloving fuckwits.
I disagree. I know a lot of people who support gun rights and are not right wing. I would argue that it is a conservative notion to tell people what they can and can not own to defend themselves. It is silly that race has even come in to play in this situation. The FBI has cleared him of being a racist. The person who edited the 911 tapes to make him sound racist was also fired. I think there are just as many people who think this guy should be hung simply because he is white as there are people who think he is innocent because he is white. There is so much over sensationalism and issues being stirred up from nothing as a result of this. Just look at the title of this thread. It's ridiculous. Race was a non issue when the crime happened. It has been made an issue by the media.

[GroobySteven]

Figures, you look autistic. But now I can see why you hate the world so much!

Evon - I'm keeping you around for the moment as I've always wanted a pet idiot to be kept in a cage to amuse my friends and I.
Before you need to go off on another rant about people's physical looks, you need to take a look at what's going on with your mug as it's well out of proportion.
Before you need to go off on another rant about people's personalities or disorders you really need to look at your own intelligence levels and comprehension and your own hatred and ire towards other people and especially other trans-people, which a pop-psychologist would factor as being because of you're own self-loathing.

[AmyDaly]

Figures, you look autistic. But now I can see why you hate the world so much!
LoL...Here is another inaccuracy on your part. There are no physical attributes of Autism known. Wrong again, Nicolet.

[EvonRose]

Evon - I'm keeping you around for the moment as I've always wanted a pet idiot to be kept in a cage to amuse my friends and I.
Before you need to go off on another rant about people's physical looks, you need to take a look at what's going on with your mug as it's well out of proportion.
Before you need to go off on another rant about people's personalities or disorders you really need to look at your own intelligence levels and comprehension and your own hatred and ire towards other people and especially other trans-people, which a pop-psychologist would factor as being because of you're own self-loathing.

Liver lips
Giraff
Anorexic
Duck lips

What have I not heard?

[GroobySteven]

I disagree. I know a lot of people who support gun rights and are not right wing. I would argue that it is a conservative notion to tell people what they can and can not own to defend themselves. It is silly that race has even come in to play in this situation. The FBI has cleared him of being a racist. The person who edited the 911 tapes to make him sound racist was also fired. I think there are just as many people who think this guy should be hung simply because he is white as there are people who think he is innocent because he is white. There is so much over sensationalism and issues being stirred up from nothing as a result of this. Just look at the title of this thread. It's ridiculous. Race was a non issue when the crime happened. It has been made an issue by the media.

I disagree with all you've said.
MOST people supporting gun rights and especially ones such as this, would be Republicans or further to the right.
Race has been part of this since it came to light. When I posted the original thread it was because media had yet to pick up on this story and I felt the same now as I did then, if Treyvon had been a young white male, then their would have been a deeper investigation. It wouldn't have had to be up to his mother and social media to create the awareness before the mainstream media picked up on what is obviously a money spinning story and escalated it.
I don't think the FBI has the right to "clear him of being a racist" - I think that should be put before a jury.
I don't think Zimmerman is innocent or guilty because he is white. I think Treyvon Martin was a) killed because he was black and b) there was not going to be a fair investigation because he was black.

[GroobySteven]

Liver lips
Giraff
Anorexic
Duck lips

What have I not heard?

I have no idea - I don't associate with your parents.

[EvonRose]

I have no idea - I don't associate with your parents.

Exactly... So why don't you filter the other party also instead of being biased? You act just like a girl when you can't take another girl for whatever reason it's called unfair.

[GroobySteven]

Exactly... So why don't you filter the other party also instead of being biased? You act just like a girl when you can't take another girl for whatever reason it's called unfair.

Because one person is arguing against the points you have made which mainly are wrong and in-accurate and you attack her on physical features as well as making some stupid comment about autism having outwardly physical traits. It's the same in the other thread with Ryder, she said your voice as a singer wasn't good - and you return by attacking her physical features.

You claim you're misunderstood on this forum. Frankly, I think you're a bit of a nasty piece of work as you've displayed a number of times.

[EvonRose]

Because one person is arguing against the points you have made which mainly are wrong and in-accurate and you attack her on physical features. It's the same in the other thread with Ryder, she said your voice as a singer wasn't good - and you return by attacking her physical features.

You claim you're misunderstood on this forum. Frankly, I think you're a bit of a nasty piece of work as you've displayed a number of times.

Hmmm when sling bade attacked me on my looks and physically threatened to harm me did you ban him?

[bobvela]

I think it does. Most gun nuts are to the right with anti-gun to the left and at the base of it, this is what this argument is about.

So supporters of the Constitution its Second Amendment are ''gun nuts" and "to the right"... good to know.

Your next part is... odd...

Mix in the racism,

What explicit racism? Or should we include my month old son will from time to time extend his arm fully in a quasi 'white power' salute... but also raise his fist at a right angle to his body in a quasi 'black power' salute... I guess I can’t tell what explicit racism is when it’s happening in my face.


the outraged white at another black man getting killed,

Why would a racist white be 'outraged' at 'another black man getting killed’?


the outraged white at not being able to kill a black man for wearing a hood

Yes... because there are so many white folks walking down the street saying "golly gee, I wish I could shoot me a black guy today!"... and here I thought it was usually the white folks in the deep south who were wearing hoods... while killing black folks.


and the outraged blacks looking for a cause then the issue of right wing versus left wing, certainly comes into it.

... so white == right wing, black == left wing? What a narrow world you live in it seems... of course this all ignores the fact that the New York Times opted to re-introduce the term 'white hispanic (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/why-did-new-york-times-call-george-zimmerman-white-hispanic/2012/03/28/gIQAW6fngS_blog.html)' to the lexicon... what about their racism?


I'm anti-gun, I'm liberal in everything but fiscal and I believe that most people who are actively supporting Zimmerman and what to use the law to support him, are right-wing, gunloving fuckwits.

As a right-learning, gun loving (because I love liberty and a important mechanism to protect it)... f-you! ... or really... you sound like a 'fiscually conservativly, socially liberal' kind of person... which historically... is called... a conservative.

If not... what do you have against personal liberty?

Luckily for all involved though... your opinion is 100% irrelevant as the United States Constitution codifies the right to keep and bare arms in it's second amendment (not to mention a couple of key SCOTUS decisions)... a right similarly provided for in many a state constitution.

[GroobySteven]

Hmmm when sling bade attacked me on my looks and physically threatened to harm me did you ban him?

He got a warning that if he does it again - he would be.

[GroobySteven]

So supporters of the Constitution its Second Amendment are ''gun nuts" and "to the right"... good to know.

Your next part is... odd...


What explicit racism? Or should we include my month old son will from time to time extend his arm fully in a quasi 'white power' salute... but also raise his fist at a right angle to his body in a quasi 'black power' salute... I guess I can’t tell what explicit racism is when it’s happening in my face.



Why would a racist white be 'outraged' at 'another black man getting killed’?



Yes... because there are so many white folks walking down the street saying "golly gee, I wish I could shoot me a black guy today!"... and here I thought it was usually the white folks in the deep south who were wearing hoods... while killing black folks.



... so white == right wing, black == left wing? What a narrow world you live in it seems... of course this all ignores the fact that the New York Times opted to re-introduce the term 'white hispanic (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/why-did-new-york-times-call-george-zimmerman-white-hispanic/2012/03/28/gIQAW6fngS_blog.html)' to the lexicon... what about their racism?



As a right-learning, gun loving (because I love liberty and a important mechanism to protect it)... f-you! ... or really... you sound like a 'fiscually conservativly, socially liberal' kind of person... which historically... is called... a conservative.

If not... what do you have against personal liberty?

Luckily for all involved though... your opinion is 100% irrelevant as the United States Constitution codifies the right to keep and bare arms in it's second amendment (not to mention a couple of key SCOTUS decisions)... a right similarly provided for in many a state constitution.

You've proven all my points perfectly. Thanks!!
"'fiscually conservativly, socially liberal' kind of person... which historically... is called... a conservative." - Historically, I would have been.
I have nothing against personal liberty where did you get that from?

What are you talking about "explicit racism" and then have to bring your son into it?
You are extremely right-wing. You're part of the Tea Party? Seriously?

[EvonRose]

He got a warning that if he does it again - he would be.

Well that warning didn't really work...

And why give two the boot with no warning but leave him?

It was unfair for me then, And I was friendly Evon until i felt an unfair treatment from you because of your personal vendetta towards me for some reason.

When its time to step up you don't.
But when the slight name calling Evon makes (that many other girls do here with each other) That's when its time to give ban warning.

You fail as a moderator...

Dude if you want me out don't talk about me here...

[GroobySteven]

Well that warning didn't really work...

And why give two the boot with no warning but leave him?

It was unfair for me then, And I was friendly Evon until i felt an unfair treatment from you because of your personal vendetta towards me for some reason.

When its time to step up you don't.
But when the slight name calling Evon makes (that many other girls do here with each other) That's when its time to give ban warning.

You fail as a moderator...

Dude if you want me out don't talk about me here...

I don't particularly want you out - you amuse me.
I haven't seen any personal threats against you since then. I took a personal dislike to what you were saying in that thread but don't play the victim (again) by saying there was a vendetta about you. I just believe you do have a nasty personality or maybe it's immaturity - maybe you need to recognise that.

I've had far more complaints about you than the other users you've mentioned.

You know where the door is - use it if you want.

[EvonRose]

I don't particularly want you out - you amuse me.
I haven't seen any personal threats against you since then. I took a personal dislike to what you were saying in that thread but don't play the victim (again) by saying there was a vendetta about you. I just believe you do have a nasty personality or maybe it's immaturity - maybe you need to recognise that.

I've had far more complaints about you than the other users you've mentioned.

You know where the door is - use it if you want.


I'm not playing the victim, I have not even complained about that till now, I actually stuck it out.

So I hate when you guys say I play victim, no sweetie. A lot of you people have the worst personalities, and a lot of you are toxic. That is why many girls have left maybe you need to recognize that.

I didn't know pushing the drama button only applied to you... Drama queen.

[GroobySteven]

So I hate when you guys say I play victim, no sweetie. A lot of you people have the worst personalities, and a lot of you are toxic. That is why many girls have left maybe you need to recognize that.

I didn't know pushing the drama button only applied to you... Drama queen.

Just not worth an answer as I know you can play these on for days and days ... playing the victim.

[EvonRose]

Just not worth an answer as I know you can play these on for days and days ... playing the victim.

Well your the biggest drama queen here... Are you sure your not a woman pretending to be a chaser? I sincerely ask that because you sure do come of that way.

[Willie Escalade]

The right to bear arms...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-screening-shooting-Ten-killed-dozens-injured-near-Denver.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
Just sayin'...

[AmyDaly]

The right to bear arms...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-screening-shooting-Ten-killed-dozens-injured-near-Denver.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
Just sayin'...
or...The right to BEAR arms. (http://picrocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bear-arms.jpg)

[bobvela]

You've proven all my points perfectly. Thanks!!

Citation please. Or should I engage in unsupported declaratives as well? Na... I'll hold off.


"'fiscually conservativly, socially liberal' kind of person... which historically... is called... a conservative." - Historically, I would have been

So why not call yourself a conservative? It's worth nothing that anyone having paid attention to the political scene in this country over the years will observe that while the modern Republican party has it's roots in conservatism... it has strayed... plenty... it is still the closest thing we have in the arena today.

Am I saying "Vote Republican! (and nothing else)"? ... no... I am simply pointing to general leanings of voters in this country... and with the Tea Party... a bit more on that later.


I have nothing against personal liberty where did you get that from?

You said it yourself... and I quote:


I'm anti-gun

You declared yourself to be against the existence of, or civilian possession of a specific configuration of piece (or several) of steal and plastic (or wood)… a configuration of steal and plastic (or wood) which is able to project a peace of lead and/or copper a high speed in a given direction, a piece of steal and plastic (or wood) which enables an individual an important mechanism (but not the only one) to protect themselves and those they are responsible for.

Note... you didn't say "I believe in common sense regulation of firearms" or even "I think only the police and military should be able to own firearms"… you said and I quote: "I'm anti-gun"

Know what the difference between you and an anti-same-sex marriage person is? The target of their dislike/bigotry can at least respond with words. You on the other hand are bigoted against an intimate object.

"Nyeh! I dislike dirt! Dirt is icky and dirty!"


What are you talking about "explicit racism" and then have to bring your son into it?

You spoke of racism in your previous post... of which there are generally two kinds... explicit "Nyeh, <insert color of skin here> should hang/be killed/not permitted to work/not let into this country/are inferior"... and implicit racism "Criticizing the first black President is racist!", "Recent studies show that whenever a case comes up where a white man kills a black man... all those siding with the white man are obviously racist... because a number of commentators say so"... or other such nonsense where you have to stretch to create a perceived 'racist' basis... something you failed here in.

Why did I bring in my son? Because one can stretch the same ways as you did to label a one month old baby a racist.

Wait... I just took a recent look at him, he fingers were next to his eyes and stretching them wider... obviously he's racist against Asians!

"Nyeh! He thinks that voters should be required to show ID... he's obviously a racist because no non-white people have government issued ID cards!"


You are extremely right-wing.

That would depend on where you define 'the middle' as... as is often the case... lefties view most non-lefties as 'extreme right-wing'... while many 'right wingers' see non 'right wingers' as 'extreme-left wingers'... and of course all place themselves in the center (see what you did above "I'm lefty on this, righty on this").


You're part of the Tea Party? Seriously?

I am... we took back the House of Representatives in 2010... and just you wait until we do in 2012. It has begun... They're coming! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn5c1FuLDd4).

Hrm... it's way past my bed time... so I think I'll be off to bed now...

[GroobySteven]

The right to bear arms...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-screening-shooting-Ten-killed-dozens-injured-near-Denver.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
Just sayin'...



Urgh - horrible.

[Willie Escalade]

or...The right to BEAR arms. (http://picrocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bear-arms.jpg)
That too! (Damn auto-correct...)

Just noticed this thread has over 1952 replies. I guess that's automatic qualification for "HA Thread of the Year"...

[GroobySteven]

So why not call yourself a conservative? It's worth nothing that anyone having paid attention to the political scene in this country over the years will observe that while the modern Republican party has it's roots in conservatism... it has strayed... plenty... it is still the closest thing we have in the arena today.
A conservative where I am from, is different to the stereotype of the American convervative.




You said it yourself... and I quote:
You declared yourself to be against the existence of, or civilian possession of a specific configuration of piece (or several) of steal and plastic (or wood)… a configuration of steal and plastic (or wood) which is able to project a peace of lead and/or copper a high speed in a given direction, a piece of steal and plastic (or wood) which enables an individual an important mechanism (but not the only one) to protect themselves and those they are responsible for.

Note... you didn't say "I believe in common sense regulation of firearms" or even "I think only the police and military should be able to own firearms"… you said and I quote: "I'm anti-gun"

Know what the difference between you and an anti-same-sex marriage person is? The target of their dislike/bigotry can at least respond with words. You on the other hand are bigoted against an intimate object.

"Nyeh! I dislike dirt! Dirt is icky and dirty!"

That's seriously your argument? Using semantics against my statement about being "anti-gun" as I didn't elaborate on the use of the gun? Pathetic and not worth a discussion.





You spoke of racism in your previous post... of which there are generally two kinds... explicit "Nyeh, <insert color of skin here> should hang/be killed/not permitted to work/not let into this country/are inferior"... and implicit racism "Criticizing the first black President is racist!", "Recent studies show that whenever a case comes up where a white man kills a black man... all those siding with the white man are obviously racist... because a number of commentators say so"... or other such nonsense where you have to stretch to create a perceived 'racist' basis... something you failed here in.
That's not what I stated. I was displaying those who have a horse in this race and the ones who creating the most issues. Again, using semantics and elaborating on the way I expressed myself to create a smokescreen.




Why did I bring in my son? Because one can stretch the same ways as you did to label a one month old baby a racist.

Wait... I just took a recent look at him, he fingers were next to his eyes and stretching them wider... obviously he's racist against Asians!

How?




That would depend on where you define 'the middle' as... as is often the case... lefties view most non-lefties as 'extreme right-wing'... while many 'right wingers' see non 'right wingers' as 'extreme-left wingers'... and of course all place themselves in the center (see what you did above "I'm lefty on this, righty on this").
Yes.




I am... we took back the House of Representatives in 2010... and just you wait until we do in 2012. It has begun... They're coming! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn5c1FuLDd4).

Hrm... it's way past my bed time... so I think I'll be off to bed now...
You're mental. Seriously, the Tea Party? It's a joke right?

Do you beleive in Darwin's The Fact of Evolution? The way you argue reminds me of the zealots who dispute that?

[AmyDaly]

That too! (Damn auto-correct...)


I think you spelled it right actually. I was just trying to be funny. But in all seriousness. I only support guns so that people can protect themselves from people who do this sort of thing and for the people to be able to protect themselves from the government if ever need be.

[GroobySteven]

I think you spelled it right actually. I was just trying to be funny. But in all seriousness. I only support guns so that people can protect themselves from people who do this sort of thing and for the people to be able to protect themselves from the government if ever need be.
What if the person doing the shooting used to be someone who wanted the gun to protect themselves from people who do this sort of thing - or from the government?
You cannot have one without the other and this is why I'm anti-gun.

[natina]

now zimmerman claims trayvon was skipping & not running away from him.

he also claims he was not following trayvon.

the DA says that zimmermans story is changing as he tells it

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/justice/florida-zimmerman-interview/index.html

http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html



zimmerman exposed

notice that during the DA questioning of zimmerman ,he does not remmeber then when he is interviewed on the news he suddenly remmbers all these details.
see transcipts

IMPORTANT READ MORE;
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html



witness # 9


Zimmerman accused of sexual abuse

A new round of evidence released reveals that a woman, identified only as Witness 9, tearfully told Florida authorities investigating Zimmerman that he molested her for 10 years.

The woman, a relative of Zimmerman, recounts incidents that she said began when she was 6 and he was 8.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-18/zimmerman-hannity-interview-trayvon/56322814/1?csp=24&kjnd=vMn6p76EsnRoobVxwe2mh7VcIjimnMYjiJrdwBSz%2F1j 1%2FBu7CMkHSHNtZi3IBTXQ-96ad38a7-14f6-4fbb-a0fb-c865ca23b3ee_h83TAPpgnLaR0Ifz58ALYS3JEBlcjCo9JM9TI sbx%2B%2Bvx80aEBq%2BIzDt1dQQf47lP




http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-wishes-kill-trayvon-martin-gods-plan/story?id=16807202

[Stavros]

As a right-learning, gun loving (because I love liberty and a important mechanism to protect it)...

If not... what do you have against personal liberty?

Luckily for all involved though... your opinion is 100% irrelevant as the United States Constitution codifies the right to keep and bare arms in it's second amendment (not to mention a couple of key SCOTUS decisions)... a right similarly provided for in many a state constitution.

You are showing how the concept of Liberty and the concept of self-defence are in conflict. In the matter of Liberty, it doesn't mean you can do what you want when you want to. Jefferson, in the "Declaration of The Rights of Man and The Citizen" says: "Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law." (My emphasis).

As Americans you have to decide if the concept of 'Stand your Ground' in Florida is a reasonable extension of the concept of self-defence, or a contradiction of the concept of liberty. If the concept of liberty is a shared value in the USA, it does suggest that waving a gun in someone's face -as well as pulling the trigger- is UnAmerican.

[trish]

One might argue (indeed pro-carry advocates do) that each of us has a legitimate expectation of security. That is one of the reasons behind the establishment of police forces and one of the reasons a gun owner will give for wanting to carry in public. If so, if we do have a legitimate expectation of a certain degree of security, then consider how safe you are sitting in a bar or restaurant full of armed patrons; especially when their weapons are concealed and you can't tell if the handbag on the table near yours has a gun in it pointing toward your family. Certainly the probability of accident or deliberate harm increases with the number of concealed firearms in the establishment. Stavropol is right. We need to find the proper balance between our various liberties. To my mind concealed carry infringes on my freedom of movement by diminishing my expectation of a secure public space.

[buttslinger]

There is no security, only opportunity-MacArthur

People build walls around their stupidity like believing a guy walking home from the store MUST be guilty of something, or believing we have to get tough on China when half the stuff we buy at Walmart comes from there, and we have to get tough on the Middle East when Exxon gets half it's oil there, and we have to get tough on Wall St, by voting for Romney!!!! oh, and sucking dicks is for homos, unless it's hanging off a pretty face. Tora Tora Tora!!!!!

[EvonRose]

There is no security, only opportunity-MacArthur

People build walls around their stupidity like believing a guy walking home from the store MUST be guilty of something, or believing we have to get tough on China when half the stuff we buy at Walmart comes from there, and we have to get tough on the Middle East when Exxon gets half it's oil there, and we have to get tough on Wall St, by voting for Romney!!!! oh, and sucking dicks is for homos, unless it's hanging off a pretty face. Tora Tora Tora!!!!!

100% agree...

[natina]

Hot Topic - Trayvon Discussion - The View - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOL54pRMb4&feature=relmfu)



now zimmerman claims trayvon was skipping & not running away from him.

he also claims he was not following trayvon.

the DA says that zimmermans story is changing as he tells it

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/justice/florida-zimmerman-interview/index.html

http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html

[natina]

The specific second-degree murder charge against zimmerman...

is grounded in the fact that he made a series of willful choices

that PUT him in a situation where (according to his claim)

Lethal force was required.

Quotation from Interview with Detective
QUOTE

The biggest problem, according to (Detective) Serino, was Zimmerman’s insistence that Trayvon suddenly jumped him and tried to kill him without provocation.

“The kid has no violent tendencies that we can find. What made him snap?” Serino asked.

“He's not on PCP. He's not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”

Zimmerman could not answer.

“He was 17 years old, an athlete, probably going into aeronautics. A kid with a future, a kid with folks that care...not a goon,” the detective said.

“He does not fit the profile of what occurred.”

Zimmerman had no reaction.

Serino also questioned Zimmerman repeatedly about why he never identified himself to Trayvon as a neighborhood watchman, Which Zimmerman could not explain.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-21/news/32356355_1_new-evidence-answer-teenager


Now that Zimmerman has been charged, I'm happy to simply await the outcome of the trial.

But a little notice to the baiters who come here to insinuate that Trayvon was some kind of a thug.


THIS DETECTIVE IS EXPLICITLY SAYING THAT TRAYVON DID NOT FIT THAT PROFILE.

It is also abundantly clear that Zimmerman did NOT politely identify himself as a concerned citizen / neighborhood watch

[buttslinger]

If Zimmerman had the Police Uniform to go with the gun, none of this would have happened.

[giovanni_hotel]

If Zimmerman had the Police Uniform to go with the gun, none of this would have happened.

LOL!!:banana:

Truth.

[Stavros]

If Zimmerman had the Police Uniform to go with the gun, none of this would have happened.

Oh no, Buttslinger, now we are going to get 100 posts on why GZ was not fit to be a policeman/ why he conforms to steretopypes of a typical Florida policeman, etc etc etc.

[yosi]

The right to bear arms...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-screening-shooting-Ten-killed-dozens-injured-near-Denver.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
Just sayin'...

the result of this right to bear arms.....

[yodajazz]

I disagree. I know a lot of people who support gun rights and are not right wing. I would argue that it is a conservative notion to tell people what they can and can not own to defend themselves. It is silly that race has even come in to play in this situation. The FBI has cleared him of being a racist. The person who edited the 911 tapes to make him sound racist was also fired. I think there are just as many people who think this guy should be hung simply because he is white as there are people who think he is innocent because he is white. There is so much over sensationalism and issues being stirred up from nothing as a result of this. Just look at the title of this thread. It's ridiculous. Race was a non issue when the crime happened. It has been made an issue by the media.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion, that race was a non issue, in the causes of this incident. I say it is the major factor. While Zimmerman's accounts may possibly be true, one has to make a major assumption, that a youth with no history of violence, attacked Zimmerman with no provocation. What reason would Martin have had to attemped to kill Zimmerman, with no provaction? Oh yeah, I forgot that Martin was photographed rasing his index finger. So one has to make the assumption then that anyone who makes that gesture, is surely likely to attemp murder. Or, if he was in reality, looking at a house, then his only motive for looking at a house, was to burglerize it. Dont humans admire nice material things? If you go down the list of things Martin has been accused of doing, the key factor that would make a person believe that a person, doing those things is likely of attempted murder, without any provacation, is racial stereotypes. If your major contact with a minority, is seeing them on the news, your views of them will likely be shaped by what you see. Some people believe that Zimmerman's story is so credible, they sent him over $100,000 in donations.

But there is more than direct racism involved here. The great divide in humanity, is how much we see others, as being like ourselves. Jesus, recognized this, as one of his two, commandments was, "to love thy neighbor as thyself". People often respect the members of their own ethnic group. It is much easier to believe that others who we interact with are 'reasonable people', like we view ourselves. We then see crime, by those of other ethnic groups, some people see that as a characteristic of the group, rather than bad seeds.

So the bottom line is that in the Martin case, whether it is direct racism or indirect, Racial stereotypes is the the major factor in making people believe Zimmerman's story is true, without question. The public outcry for a trial, is simply about answering questions. The case was considered closed, until Martins parents got the public's attention. I, personlly have lots of questions, and understand that his parents have many questions also.

In my youth, when I got my first car, sometimes I would drive through the richest neighborhoods and dream of one day having a home like those. I, in no way thought about burglarizing any of those homes. Zimmerman's thought patterns are symptoms of a disburbed mind, or a sick society, if many people believe the same thing. But perhaps Zimmerman was entirely right, in assuming that Martin was going to burglarize that house. But I would personally give it a small percentage chance of being likely, reasonable assmumption, or true.

Amy, though I disagree with your statement, I still consider you to be a reasonable person, as I think of myself as such. And this is what Jesus commanded, not following you around with a loaded weapon. (In response to Zimmerman's tv interview).

[yodajazz]

I disagree. I know a lot of people who support gun rights and are not right wing. I would argue that it is a conservative notion to tell people what they can and can not own to defend themselves. It is silly that race has even come in to play in this situation. The FBI has cleared him of being a racist. The person who edited the 911 tapes to make him sound racist was also fired. I think there are just as many people who think this guy should be hung simply because he is white as there are people who think he is innocent because he is white. There is so much over sensationalism and issues being stirred up from nothing as a result of this. Just look at the title of this thread. It's ridiculous. Race was a non issue when the crime happened. It has been made an issue by the media.

Another example of why this is a racial issue. Trayvon is not considered to have thoughts and actions as a normal reasonble human being may have. I have stated this previously. Martin was being followed at night by car and then on foot. That Martin may have feared for his own safety, would be a reasonble possibility, if one can assume he was human, rather than sub-human. But I will agree wtih you, that the end result will be soley on whether Zimmerman's actions are judged to be criminal.

[EvonRose]

I respectfully disagree with your opinion, that race was a non issue, in the causes of this incident. I say it is the major factor. While Zimmerman's accounts may possibly be true, one has to make a major assumption, that a youth with no history of violence, attacked Zimmerman with no provocation. What reason would Martin have had to attemped to kill Zimmerman, with no provaction? Oh yeah, I forgot that Martin was photographed rasing his index finger. So one has to make the assumption then that anyone who makes that gesture, is surely likely to attemp murder. Or, if he was in reality, looking at a house, then his only motive for looking at a house, was to burglerize it. Dont humans admire nice material things? If you go down the list of things Martin has been accused of doing, the key factor that would make a person believe that a person, doing those things is likely of attempted murder, without any provacation, is racial stereotypes. If your major contact with a minority, is seeing them on the news, your views of them will likely be shaped by what you see. Some people believe that Zimmerman's story is so credible, they sent him over $100,000 in donations.

But there is more than direct racism involved here. The great divide in humanity, is how much we see others, as being like ourselves. Jesus, recognized this, as one of his two, commandments was, "to love thy neighbor as thyself". People often respect the members of their own ethnic group. It is much easier to believe that others who we interact with are 'reasonable people', like we view ourselves. We then see crime, by those of other ethnic groups, some people see that as a characteristic of the group, rather than bad seeds.

So the bottom line is that in the Martin case, whether it is direct racism or indirect, Racial stereotypes is the the major factor in making people believe Zimmerman's story is true, without question. The public outcry for a trial, is simply about answering questions. The case was considered closed, until Martins parents got the public's attention. I, personlly have lots of questions, and understand that his parents have many questions also.

In my youth, when I got my first car, sometimes I would drive through the richest neighborhoods and dream of one day having a home like those. I, in no way thought about burglarizing any of those homes. Zimmerman's thought patterns are symptoms of a disburbed mind, or a sick society, if many people believe the same thing. But perhaps Zimmerman was entirely right, in assuming that Martin was going to burglarize that house. But I would personally give it a small percentage chance of being likely, reasonable assmumption, or true.

Amy, though I disagree with your statement, I still consider you to be a reasonable person, as I think of myself as such. And this is what Jesus commanded, not following you around with a loaded weapon. (In response to Zimmerman's tv interview).


I agree 100 percent!

Plus Trayvon was staying in one of the houses according to reports, he was staying with his dad's or uncle's girlfriends house in the hood, but he went out for a quick, I guess to buy candy... Little did anyone know he wasn't going to come home that day. How sad.

[EvonRose]

Another example of why this is a racial issue. Trayvon is not considered to have thoughts and actions as a normal reasonble human being may have. I have stated this previously. Martin was being followed at night by car and then on foot. That Martin may have feared for his own safety, would be a reasonble possibility, if one can assume he was human, rather than sub-human. But I will agree wtih you, that the end result will be soley on whether Zimmerman's actions are judged to be criminal.

I also stated this...

If Trayvon punched zimmerman maybe it's because Zimmemran created a hostile environment.

[Token Williams-Black]

If Trayvon punched zimmerman maybe it's because Zimmemran created a hostile environment.
True, true...I'm not going to punch anyone unless they give me a reason to punch them. It's called assault.

[natina]

the charge is not 2nd degree homicide .

the charge is Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life (Criminally Negligent Homicide ).



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.



911 call records george Zimmermans's desire to DETAIN Travyon martin.


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling



http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite





Criminally Negligent Homicide







(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that zimmerman by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement





Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.







In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.


Another example of why this is a racial issue. Trayvon is not considered to have thoughts and actions as a normal reasonble human being may have. I have stated this previously. Martin was being followed at night by car and then on foot. That Martin may have feared for his own safety, would be a reasonble possibility, if one can assume he was human, rather than sub-human. But I will agree wtih you, that the end result will be soley on whether Zimmerman's actions are judged to be criminal.

[yodajazz]

I also stated this...

If Trayvon punched zimmerman maybe it's because Zimmemran created a hostile environment.

Well put. Exactly!

[yodajazz]

the charge is not 2nd degree homicide .

the charge is Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life (Criminally Negligent Homicide ).



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.



911 call records george Zimmermans's desire to DETAIN Travyon martin.


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling



http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite





Criminally Negligent Homicide







(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that zimmerman by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement





Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.







In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.

I neglected to thank you for your post. "Criminally Negligent Homicide" does fit the description of this whole incident. It does change my perception that it is ok, to 'strap up' and follow people around at night. So I wont be doing that. Thanks again.

[natina]

yodajazz , PEOPLE DO NOT GET THAT POINT!

why don't you tell them again

zimmerman is a DA'S worst nightmare, CAUSE THEY KNOW WHATS GONNA HAPPEN.

IT WAS SAID BY these people.


Zimmerman psychologically wanna be cop profile: He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America

By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous, motivated by an obsessive desire to guard the perimeter of his community and pose as a crime-fighting hero to those around him. It doesn’t take much imagination to size up Zimmerman psychologically. He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, met one, you’ve met them all: a wannabe somebody
http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder

Mike Papantonio talks with Ed Schultz about his views on the Trayvon Martin murder, as well as Florida's flawed "Stand Your Ground" law.

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23P2TdQXfE&feature=related)


I neglected to thank you for your post. "Criminally Negligent Homicide" does fit the description of this whole incident. It does change my perception that it is ok, to 'strap up' and follow people around at night. So I wont be doing that. Thanks again.


the charge is not 2nd degree homicide .

the charge is Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life (Criminally Negligent Homicide ).



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.



911 call records george Zimmermans's desire to DETAIN Travyon martin.


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling



http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite





Criminally Negligent Homicide







(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that zimmerman by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement





Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.







In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.

QUOTE

The biggest problem, according to (Detective) Serino, was Zimmerman’s insistence that Trayvon suddenly jumped him and tried to kill him without provocation.

“The kid has no violent tendencies that we can find. What made him snap?” Serino asked.

“He's not on PCP. He's not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”

Zimmerman could not answer.

“He was 17 years old, an athlete, probably going into aeronautics. A kid with a future, a kid with folks that care...not a goon,” the detective said.

“He does not fit the profile of what occurred.”

Zimmerman had no reaction.

Serino also questioned Zimmerman repeatedly about why he never identified himself to Trayvon as a neighborhood watchman, Which Zimmerman could not explain.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-21/news/32356355_1_new-evidence-answer-teenager


Now that Zimmerman has been charged, I'm happy to simply await the outcome of the trial.

But a little notice to the baiters who come here to insinuate that Trayvon was some kind of a thug.


THIS DETECTIVE IS EXPLICITLY SAYING THAT TRAYVON DID NOT FIT THAT PROFILE.

It is also abundantly clear that Zimmerman did NOT politely identify himself as a concerned citizen / neighborhood watch

[natina]

Judge in Zimmerman case says he won't step aside


CNN) -- The Florida judge presiding over the murder case against a former neighborhood watch volunteer who killed an unarmed teenager refused a defense request to step aside Wednesday.

In a two-page order, Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester said the July request by lawyers for George Zimmerman was "legally insufficient" for him to recuse himself. Zimmerman's lawyers had argued that their client feared he could not get a fair trial before Lester, who had revoked Zimmerman's bond and blasted the defendant for failing to completely disclose his assets at an earlier bail hearing.

There was no immediate response to the ruling from Zimmerman's lawyers.



http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

[natina]

Zimmerman's wife pleads not guilty on perjury charge


CNN) -- The wife of George Zimmerman will not be at her scheduled arraignment Tuesday after pleading not guilty to perjury for allegedly lying about the family's finances as her husband faced murder charges, a court official said.


Shellie Zimmerman was arrested June 12 on perjury charges, after Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. revoked her husband's bond and ordered him back to jail for misrepresenting how much money the family had when he initially set his bond in April. Prosecutors say he had $135,000 at the time Zimmerman's wife told the court under oath that they were indigent
Shellie Zimmerman was released on bond and set to be formally arraigned .


prosecutors said -- and Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara has acknowledged -- that he and his wife spoke in code by phone when discussing their available funds.

Those talks included the transfer of money from George Zimmerman's account to accounts of his sister and wife, according to an affidavit prepared by an investigator with the State Attorney's office.

Records show $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's account from April 16 and 17, authorities allege. Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $74,000 from her husband's account to her account from April 16 to April 19, the affidavit states.

George Zimmerman asked his wife in jail calls to "pay off all the bills," including an American Express bill and a Sam's Club card, prosecutors allege.

George Zimmerman balks at interview over demands

At her husband's April 20 bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman was asked whether the couple had financial means to assist in his defense.

"Uhm, not -- not that I'm aware of," she replied, according to a probable cause affidavit.

Four days later, after her husband was released from prison on bond, Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $85,500 from her account back to George Zimmerman's account, according to the affidavit.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/?hpt=us_c2

[natina]

Zimmerman prosecutors camp make error
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/george-zimmerman-records-mistakenly-released-684512

[natina]

Appeals court grants George Zimmerman's request for new judge
A Florida appeals court on Wednesday granted George Zimmerman's request for a new judge.
Zimmerman, the former neighborhood watch volunteer charged in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, had said the judge presiding over his case has made disparaging remarks about him.

The Fifth District Court of Appeal wrote in a decision that Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. should "enter an order of disqualification which requests the chief circuit judge to appoint a successor judge."

The opinion said: "Although many of the allegations in Zimmerman's motion, standing alone, do not meet the legal sufficiency test, and while this is admittedly a close call, upon careful review we find that the allegations, taken together, meet the threshold test of legal sufficiency."

The appeals court ruling was 2 to 1 in favor.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/29/13553403-appeals-court-grants-george-zimmermans-request-for-new-judge?lite

[onmyknees]

LMFAO....do you ever get the feeling no one is listening Natina? You're the only one who's replied to your own post in a month !

[trish]

Keep up the good work Natina. You go girl, and thanks.

[giovanni_hotel]

What utter bullshit. I have NO idea how they disqualified the judge in this case. Zimmerman's ass should be rotting in a jail cell awaiting trial, not free on bond.

[fred41]

What utter bullshit. I have NO idea how they disqualified the judge in this case. Zimmerman's ass should be rotting in a jail cell awaiting trial, not free on bond.

Wow...I'm guessing they're just playing it really safe here...don't want to do this trial more than once.

[giovanni_hotel]

Wow...I'm guessing they're just playing it really safe here...don't want to do this trial more than once.

Good point.
Nothing gained in risking a mistrial or having the final verdict overturned by judge misconduct.

[natina]

Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in
stand your ground law does not protect zimmerman


Author and NRA member Dave Kopel says Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting.


http://www.cnn.com/video/?iid=article_sidebar#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/30/exp-point-kopel-one.cnn


--------------------- --------------- --------------


Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- Someone has stepped up, reporting to have witnessed last month's shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old whose death has sparked nationwide controversy. The witness detailed to CNN the Florida incident from what initially sounded like an argument to its fatal conclusion.


"It would have to be starting with hearing voices, but not seeing, and then, after the voices, opening a window and then seeing -- with two men or two people on the ground, one on top of each other," the witness, who has asked not to be identified, even by gender, told CNN's Anderson Cooper about the February 26 incident in a gated community in Sanford, Florida.


The witness reported hearing through a closed window voices from an area where residents typically walk their dogs. "I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window because it had just started pouring out rain," the witness said. "And then I thought, 'Oh, my gosh, who's out there walking their dog in the rain?' "


But the witness did not immediately look outside to see what the commotion was about, according to the account. "I went and did something else, and then I heard the loud voices again," said the witness, who reported opening the window. "It definitely was a very loud, predominant voice," the witness said. "I couldn't hear the words but it was like, OK, this is not a regular conversation. This is someone aggressively, you know, yelling at someone."


I could see him a little bit clearer. Could see that it was a Hispanic man. He didn't appear hurt or anything else."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


------------ ------------ ---------
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-screams_n_1394224.html


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

[natina]

stand your ground law does not protect zimmerman

Author and NRA member Dave Kopel says Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iid=article_sidebar#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/30/exp-point-kopel-one.cnn

Retired Police Detective Lou Palumbo Analyzes The Zimmerman Arrest Video, Finds Irregularities
Retired Police Detective Lou Palumbo Analyzes The Zimmerman Arrest Video, Finds Irregularities - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTWrVZoSIwg&feature=related)

Zimmerman’s most egregious lie is above. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman about how many statements he gave. Zimmerman replies. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman if he said “I don’t remember?” when Serino/Singleton poked holes in his account of what happened, using the non-emergency phone call to do so, and Zimmerman replied matter-of-factly, “Absolutely not.” Folks, that is the third lie to His Honor’s Court. George Zimmerman Legal Case has the audio still up. It is up for anyone who wants to listen to it. Make no mistake, when asked about things that didn’t add up, Zimmerman would say “I don’t know/I don’t remember.” When it was clear that Serino/Singleton were playing bad cop or no longer believed him, Zimmerman got defensive, lied, and omitted facts. He told the dispatcher he was following Trayvon. On the February 29, 2012, part 3 of the interview with Serino/Singleton; he said he wasn’t following, but walking in the same direction. When asked what type of running Trayvon was doing, he said he couldn’t remember/didn’t know. When asked why he got out of his car, Singleton bluntly said, “That isn’t what you told me.”


George Zimmerman is going to assert an affirmative defense in his second-degree murder trial. If Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to the truth in His Honor’s Court, I wouldn’t be making any long term plans for the future unless they included a prison facility.

important read more;
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot.com/2012/06/george-zimmerman-will-not-tell-truth.html

[Willie Escalade]

Um, why?

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=8802873&section=news%2Fnational_world

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Former neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman wants to use Trayvon Martin's school records as part of his defense.

Zimmerman's attorney said Friday he has sent subpoenas to the schools the 17-year-old Martin attended in the Miami area. The subpoenas request disciplinary notices, suspensions and tardiness records among other things.

Martin was suspended by Miami-Dade County schools because traces of marijuana were found in a plastic baggie in his book bag. He was serving the suspension when he was shot Feb. 26 by Zimmerman..

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump has said the link between the youth and marijuana should have no bearing on the probe into his shooting death.

[GroobySteven]

and tardiness records among other things.


Tardiness. He was shot for being late.

[natina]

MANY RACIST CLAIMS ARE UNTRUE.NOW THE EVIDENCE IS IN.

DNA tests exclude Martin from gun grip in Zimmerman case.

Another round of evidence was released Wednesday in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, including forensic tests that show Zimmerman's DNA was the only one that could be identified on the grip of the gun used to shoot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman's DNA also was identified on the gun's holster. The tests were inconclusive as to whether Martin's DNA was on the gun's holster.

The evidence includes a few diagrams from witnesses the defense noticed that were not included in the original evidence, along with som event logs and photographs of key areas.

Zimmerman's medical records are still in question after prosecutors subpoenaed the records for treatment he received the day after the shooting. Prosecutors are waiting for a judge to make a decision on those.

Martin was shot to death by Zimmerman, a volunteer neighborhood watchman, in a Sanford townhouse complex. Zimmerman said the shooting was self-defense.

Zimmerman said Martin was on top of him, slamming his head against the ground when he grabbed his gun from a holster before Martin could get it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49088862

[Queens Guy]

Um, why?

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=8802873&section=news%2Fnational_world

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Former neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman wants to use Trayvon Martin's school records as part of his defense.

Zimmerman's attorney said Friday he has sent subpoenas to the schools the 17-year-old Martin attended in the Miami area. The subpoenas request disciplinary notices, suspensions and tardiness records among other things.

Martin was suspended by Miami-Dade County schools because traces of marijuana were found in a plastic baggie in his book bag. He was serving the suspension when he was shot Feb. 26 by Zimmerman..

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump has said the link between the youth and marijuana should have no bearing on the probe into his shooting death.


Those records may show things much more helpful to the defense than just being late or having an empty bag of weed in his backpack.

Please, don't shoot the messenger here. I'm not saying Zimmerman was justified, I'm discussing the possible evidence. I'm just saying that this is what the defense could use it for.

They may show that Martin was seen in an area of the school students aren't supposed to be in (kinda like trespassing) and that the next day, when his backpack was searched he had a bunch of women's jewelry in it, which he said he didn't know who owned the jewelry and didn't know how the jewelry got there. And he had a screwdriver in the backpack, which one might use to break into a locker with. (kinda like burglary.) So, if you take all of that and put the worst possible spin on it for Trayvon, it makes him look like a small-time burglar, penny ante weed dealer, and somebody who might have been doing something that would have looked suspicious to Z., beyond just being a black teenager. (Like slowly walking back to his dad's place and looking into apartment windows for an apartment to burglarize during the week, since he was suspended from school and had plenty of time to do it.) Those are rumors I've heard about what is in his disciplinary records, but, like a lot of stuff reported in this case, that may not be what actually is in his school records.

GZ's lawyer only needs to get one juror to think there is reasonable doubt and he's hoping the disciplinary records help do that.

[giovanni_hotel]

Just guessing, but I don't think Trayvon's school records are admissible in this case.
I also don't think Zimmerman's prior arrests can be used against him in his prosecution.

[natina]

Florida judge sets June start date for George Zimmerman murder trial

A Florida judge has set June 10, 2013 as the start date of the murder trial of George Zimmerman.
Attorneys in the case said they estimate the trial will last three weeks, and Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said he expected the jury selection would take longer than the trial itself, the Orlando Sentinel reported. (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-docket-sounding-20121017%2c0%2c3121347.story)

Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson was appointed (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/30/13572398-tough-minded-judge-assigned-to-take-over-george-zimmerman-case?lite) to the case in late August after the former judge in the case made disparaging remarks about Zimmerman’s character and advocated for additional charges against him during a bond hearing.
A hearing is set for Friday for Nelson to hear arguments on several new motions, including the defense asking for more time to interview state witnesses, reported NBCMiami.com. (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trial-of-George-Zimmerman-in-Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-to-Begin-June-10-174569081.html)


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/17/14508890-florida-judge-sets-june-start-date-for-george-zimmerman-murder-trial?lite&ocid=msnhp

[natina]

George Zimmerman judge rejected 'stand your ground' claim in other murder case

In May, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson, who has taken overthe George Zimmerman (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PECLB0000014809.topic) murder case, rejected the "stand your ground" claim of a 21-year-old Sanford (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PLGEO100100414080000.topic) man who was charged with murder.
A month later, a Seminole County (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PLGEO100100414000000.topic) jury acquitted him.
That case, Florida v. Kishawn Jones, is important because it could signal what's ahead for Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Neighborhood Watch volunteer who killed Trayvon Martin (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PEOCVC000188.topic), an unarmed black 17-year-old.

Zimmerman is expected to use Florida's "stand your ground" law to try to clear himself. Passed by the Florida Legislature (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORGOV0000182.topic) in 2005, the law grants immunity to anyone who uses deadly force if he has a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury.
Zimmerman says he killed Trayvon in self-defense on a rainy February evening in a Sanford gated community after he spotted the Miami Gardens (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PLGEO100100408121596.topic) teenager and called the police, describing him as suspicious.
Since Trayvon's death, there has been an influx of "stand your ground" motions in Seminole County.
"We never had them before the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman case," said Assistant State Attorney John Mannion Jr. "Now, they're getting to be routine."
Nelson is the judge who must decide whether Zimmerman deserves immunity. To date, she has held one "stand your ground" hearing — in the case of Jones, a homeless Sanford man who was charged with second-degree murder.
He shot and killed a close friend, 28-year-oldLeonard Boone, at a Sanford apartment complex in June 2011 in a dispute over a cheap gun and $20.
Jones was outnumbered: He was confronted by Boone and his brother, Eugene Rouse, according to court records. Rouse had sold Jones a handgun, according to testimony, but Jones still owed him$20.
On the day of the shooting, the brothers began arguing with Jones about the money. They upended the bench where he was lying, dumping him on the ground. Rouse then snatched the disputed gun from Jones and, according to a witness, shook it at him. Rouse then walked away with it.
Jones followed, agreed to hand over some money, got back the gun and headed back to his bench, according to witness statements.
The two brothers then began to taunt Jones"and threatened to start a 'war' with him," Nelson wrote in her May 4 order denying the defendant immunity.
Boone charged at Jones, lifting a glass-top table as if to flip it onto the defendant, the judge wrote, and Jones opened fire, shooting Boone three times.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-05/news/os-george-zimmerman-judge-nelson-stand-your-ground-20120904_1_kishawn-jones-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman

http://entertainment.topnewstoday.org/tv/article/3287240/

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-zimmerman-judge-20120910,0,2513497.story

[Queens Guy]

natina, the latimes link doesn't work. The other 2 do.

[GrimFusion]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/grimfusion/frump/4XIXR2MZP3H33RFEUNBLRQT3DDE3YPOM_zpsb542b626.jpg

[yodajazz]

http://newsone.com/2036891/brandon-jackson-case/

The issue was always about justice. One cant help but reflect on this when looking at other cases involving the concept of the 'self defense' claim. In this this case a Black man, with no prior criminal record is sentenced to 12 years, after being assaulted by 7-8 White males. And this is six years after the incident. He did stab someone, and the carrying of the knife is illegal, I assume. Jackson was convicted in a jury trial; an all White jury, by the way.

[natina]

Man Charged in Trayvon Martin’s Death Sues NBC for Defamation

George Zimmerman, accused of second-degree murder (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting.html?ref=us) in the shooting of Trayvon Martin earlier this year, filed suit against NBCUniversal on Thursday, alleging that news reports that edited his voice on a 911 tape constituted defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
The suit, filed in circuit court in Seminole County, Fla., asked for a jury trial. A spokeswoman for NBCUniversal said in response to the suit: “We strongly disagree with the accusations made in the complaint. There was no intent to portray Mr. Zimmerman unfairly. We intend to vigorously defend our position in court.”
The edits of a 911 audio recording — which removed an intervening question from the operator directly asking Mr. Zimmerman what race Mr. Martin was — aired three times on NBC’s “Today” show: first on March 20, in a report by Lilia Luciano; on March 22, in another report by Ms. Luciano; and again on March 27, in a report by Ron Allen. The killing of Mr. Martin, on the night of Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., spurred a national debate about self-defense, crime and race.
In Ms. Luciano’s first report, Mr. Zimmerman’s words to the 911 operator were: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. He looks black.” In fact, Mr. Zimmerman told the operator: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” When the dispatcher said, “O.K., and this guy — is he white, black or Hispanic?” Mr. Zimmerman then said, “He looks black.”
The suit charges that journalists at NBC News intentionally edited Mr. Zimmerman’s statements to make him appear to be a “racist, predatory villain.”
When the omissions were noticed at the end of March, NBC News conducted an investigation and concluded that the edits were mistakes, not deliberate distortions. Ms. Luciano subsequently left the network, as did a producer who worked with her. Mr. Allen remains at the network.
Ms. Luciano and Mr. Allen were named as defendants in the lawsuit along with NBC on Thursday. The producer, whose name has not been revealed in news reports, was not named as a defendant.
Mr. Zimmerman faces second-degree murder charges in the shooting of Mr. Martin, who was 17. His criminal trial is scheduled to begin in June.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/man-charged-in-trayvon-martins-death-sues-nbc-for-defamation/

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman is unbelievable.
There was no malice on the part of NBC, and the person responsible for the doctored recording was fired.
I hope NBC fights his claim and doesn't give that jerk a single penny.

[Willie Escalade]

Reply #2000! The attachment is proof before this post is edited...