17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[hard4janira]

The only injuries Zimmerman had from getting his ass kicked were cuts to the back of his head. I don't buy for a minute a 158# teen is capable of inflicting grievous injuries or death with only his fists.

I don't think that your statement is accurate. I've read where emergency workers cleaned Zimmerman up in the police car and noted abbrasions and bruises on his face. They also said he had a broken nose. This isn't Zimmerman saying that his nose was broken, this is the EMT saying that his nose was 'broken'.

Also, if Zimmerman is losing the fight how does he know that Trayvon (the honor student) isn't going to grab an object and finish the job? Maybe Trayvon can't kill him with his fists but if Zimmerman goes unconsious (not impossible) then there is no telling what Trayvon could/would have done. What if Trayvon repeatedly kicked him in the head? That could cause grievous injury. In a fist fight, you can't assume what any outcome is going to be (unless you are Kimbo Slice).

[trish]

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

[bobvela]

@giovanni_hotel,

Per the florida statute, deadly force being used in self defense is justified when:


(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or


If Martin in fact was on top of Zimmerman and repeatedly punching him in the face, I would expect that "great bodily harm" is a reasonable concern.

It is clear that Angela Corey does have higher political aspirations... there is an aspect of her charging I cannot get my mind around... I believe the police originally thought negligent manslaughter was the correct charge, while the original prosecutor didn't see anything at all to charge, there is a rather large gap between nothing and second-degree murder.

Does she think she can win a second-degree murder conviction? Perhaps

Would she accept a conviction on a lesser charge or a plea agreement? Probably

Is she trying to use this case to bolster her political ambitions? Absolutely.


If Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night two people would've would've have left the scene with their lives instead of one. You're an stupid idiot to be claiming that's a worse scenario than what actually happened. Guns are designed to kill. You carry one at every body else's risk.

I never said that both men walking away would be a 'worse scenario'... I said "the situation would be very different right now, reversed in fact"... with Martin charged and easily convicted of aggravated assault.

More so... I'm sorry to hear that you aren't a fan of the second amendment, the fact that individuals in this country have long enjoyed the right to carry a firearm for the protection of themselves and their property... something which has long been codified into law as well as been routinely upheld by the courts.

Of course, your opinion on such a thing is irrelevant as millions of people in this county own firearms, many have permits to carry concealed and do... and by some bizarre miracle, we don't have massive gun violence from these legal owners.

Odd that, isn't it?

[hard4janira]

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

I don't disagree w/ you - you make some valid points. Still, Zimmerman can't assume that Trayvon (or anybody) would necessarily stop beating him under any circumstance. Maybe there was no object nearby for Trayvon to use but that doesn't mean he couldn't have kicked Zimmerman in the head if Zimmerman was unable to continue. Again, I don't know that this is what happened - I'm just saying that people have made assumptions as to the outcome of the fight (given Trayvons age and weight) and it is completely wrong to do so.

[trish]

Again, it doesn't matter what Zimmerman thought Trayvon might do, it matters what Trayvon did and didn't do and Trayon didn't beat Zimmermann to within one light year of his life, let alone an inch.

[hard4janira]

Maybe because he was shot... :shrug:

[trish]

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

[bobvela]

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

You realize you are saying that Martin would have to shoot AND hit Zimmerman first before under your system Zimmerman would be able to shoot in self-defense.

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.

By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.

By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.

By your logic... Zimmerman could only shoot in self-defense if he himself had already been terminally wounded by a bullet from Martin... of course, how is Zimmerman to know if he's about to die or not? Maybe he will survive with quick treatment... can he still put the trigger then?

How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go?

[fastingforlife]

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

[AmyDaly]

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

he was also a football player

[giovanni_hotel]

Let's get real. No 5'11, 158# kid with only his fists is a 'deadly threat' to a grown man.
At the time Zimmerman outweighed him by almost 40#.

For those of you that still believe Zimmerman's only rational response was to blow a hole through Trayvon's chest, I present you below with a surveillance video of a San Antonio deputy who's house was burglarized while he was at home, and the deputy fought off three unarmed criminals without firing a shot.
One man COMPLETELY in control of the situation without using deadly force, in a state where he had every legal right to grab his service pistol and start firing.

http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3519149

Beyond whether or not Zimmerman was within his rights to use deadly force, or whether he believed Trayvon was about to kill(!) him, I simply cannot respect at all, as a grown man, how Zimmerman handled the situation.

When you decide my bloody nose is worth a kid's life, you become in my mind less than a human being.

[giovanni_hotel]

If a 190# Black man insinuated he felt his very life was threatened by a 158# unarmed White kid in a fight, and therefore felt the need to shoot him, would the same people be arguing the Black man's fear was justified??

Because the White kid was a football player??? Or because some 158# men in the military are hellraisers??

THere's a level of objectivity IMO many are lacking in this case, and this extreme benefit of the doubt that's being given to Zimmerman I just don't understand.

[buds]

How many break ins have happened since martin died at that gated community?

Hmmm

[fastingforlife]

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

[natina]

in the recording you can here zimmerman running after Trayvon Martin

you here the confrontation




Natina,

You have a recording of it? Like an audio recording?

I think this case will turn on what happened after Zimmerman did after he ended his 911 call. His girlfriend gave her statement. But, she's an interested party. If Trayvon had called 911 and it was recorded, or he reached his girlfriend's voicemail and it was recorded, that would be much stronger evidence.

I'd love to know more about this recording you are talking about. Is there a link to any article discussing this recording? Please post it.

[natina]

“Great bodily harm” is more serious or grave than lacerations, bruises, or abrasions that characterize “bodily harm.” See People v. Costello, 95 Ill. App. 3d 680 (1981).

[trish]

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.I see we're now speaking hypothetically. So if the hypothetical Martin said, "I've got a gun!" and the hypothetical Zimmerman shot him dead on the spot, it would obviously not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a pez dispenser, let alone a gun.


By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.Depends on how the hypothetical Martin displayed his weapon. Did he open his jacket and let the hypothetical Zimmerman see it hanging there all shiny and holstered? You do believe in concealed carry don't you? Or perhaps the hypothetical Martin held it handle pinched between thumb and forefinger, barrel pointed down and nowhere near the trigger. If the hypothetical Zimmerman shot and killed Martin simply for displaying his gun and no other reason, then it would not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself you shouldn't be allowed to carry a toothpick let alone a gun.


By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.It would be a threat but not necessarily a justifiable reason for homicide. A good reason perhaps to blowout the hypothetical Martin's kneecap, but not a justification for homicide.


By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.Wrong. By my logic deadly force may be justified in this situation. Let's review what you call my logic. The testimony of the shooter as to his state of mind (e.g. claiming, "I was afraid for my life.") is not sufficient evidence that the shooter's life was indeed in danger. The gun on the scene, cocked, with a bullet in the chamber and the testimony that "It was pointed directly at me," counts as evidence of considerably more solidity.


By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.If the hypothetical Martin shot BB's from a BB gun at Zimmerman it certainly would not be justification for the hypothetical Zimmerman to use deadly force.


How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go? By your logic if Martin through a paper airplane at Zimmerman, one sharp pointy paper nose, Zimmerman would be justified in using deadly force to defend himself. How far up that slope do you want to go?

But these are all hypothetical situations. The facts as we know them are that Zimmerman's life was in no way actually threatened. Trayvon didn't say he had a weapon. Trayvon didn't show a weapon. Trayvon didn't point a weapon. Trayvon didn't have a weapon. Zimmerman did. Zimmerman used it. And Trayvon is dead.

[giovanni_hotel]

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

[fastingforlife]

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

5' 11" is not short. And 158 lbs is not skinny. I wrestled at the 157 lb class in high school, weighing 152, and standing 6' 2" at 15 years old. I could have given Zimmerman a very difficult time at that age. By the time I was 17 I could have killed Zimmerman, and many others his size with my bear hands, never needing a weapon if I had wanted to. However, being a non-violent person, I never would have reacted the way Trayvon did. You can continue to think Trayvon was a weakling. I pass plenty of men Trayvon's size every day walking in Newark. Most could kick my ass today. But, unlike Zimmerman I do not carry a gun, so I am happy to keep a low profile, even if I did see something suspicious.

[giovanni_hotel]

Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.

[fastingforlife]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1147845]Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.[/QUO

I believe that Trayvon was likely strong enough to hurt another person with his fists. However, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, as the "stand your ground" requirement was never in place, he was never at risk of being killed. This was a bullshit fight, that probably would have ended in another 30 seconds had Zimmerman not pulled out his gun.

How about, just hitting Trayvon with the gun, or shooting him in the arm....why the chest?

[giovanni_hotel]

Agreed, I do believe if Zimmerman had never pulled his gun, the fight would have ended soon after with both of them still alive.

[broncofan]

Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.
I think you underestimate the damage that can be done by being repeatedly struck with concussive blows and having your head slammed against concrete.

That said, I think that Zimmerman's actions precipitated the entire sequence of events. He was an untrained man following around a 17 year old teenager with a concealed weapon. At the worst, Trayvon overreacted and attacked someone who was basically stalking him. If every 17 year old who would react this way were to end up dead then we would have a real problem in this country. If every time I reacted with anger at an overzealous "authority figure" I were to be facing the business end of a firearm, I'd be dead a hundred times over.

BTW, I'm just saying that I think hypothetically Trayvon probably had the physical strength to kill someone if he was determined to do so. I don't think that George Zimmerman was ever in that kind of danger. I think his discussions with the police department show that he had already come to the conclusion that Trayvon was a criminal even though he hadn't seen him do anything wrong. Once he was confronted with a physical situation he probably saw himself justified in using his gun. Racial profiling plus a man who thinks he has the sanction of the law to kill someone he is fighting with. Of course he didn't and there's a real problem with those who think they do. Self-defense only applies to those who aren't the initial aggressors and who use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves. I think it's manslaughter at the least.

[broncofan]

There's obviously a big problem with the gun issue, but I think another issue that needs to be emphasized is Zimmerman's behavior before the incident. Vagrancy laws in this country have been ruled unconstitutional because they are void for vagueness and vest too much discretion in the hands of those enforcing the laws. These laws basically allowed police officers to arrest people who were walking around without any clear purpose or who were "loitering".

I think Zimmerman's first words to Trayvon were, "what are you doing here?". People shouldn't have to justify what they're doing to police officers, let alone overzealous wannabe cops. The main issue is that an untrained civilian thought it was law enforcement to follow around a teenager because he "looks suspicious."

[fastingforlife]

Does anyone know Zimmerman's history with firearms? How long had he had a permit? How much training had he received? Did he carry a weapon all the time?

Also, can you get a permit to carry a tazer in Florida? If so, why didn't he have one? Why wasn't he carrying pepperspray? I just don't understand going nuclear as his only option. He must have known he was tangling with a kid, right?

[buds]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1147845]Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.[/QUO

I believe that Trayvon was likely strong enough to hurt another person with his fists. However, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, as the "stand your ground" requirement was never in place, he was never at risk of being killed. This was a bullshit fight, that probably would have ended in another 30 seconds had Zimmerman not pulled out his gun.

How about, just hitting Trayvon with the gun, or shooting him in the arm....why the chest?

Because when you shoot you shoot to kill

[trish]

If he shot to kill, then he had intent to kill. Doesn't sound like a good defense.

[DaveinBoston]

Wow.. there are some pretty strange opinions here...

There is nothing illegal about Zimmerman following someone through his condo complex parking lot. I can follow anyone I want as long as I'm not on someone's private property. (Think otherwise? Think paparazzi)

At one point, one engaged the other. Who put his hands on who first is the one in the wrong. It's doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him. If Trayvon hit him first, it's his fault. If Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon, then it's Zimmerman who's in the wrong.

Trayvon's own father said the voice on the 911 tape WAS NOT his son and he was 100% positive. Witness statements have changed drastically.

You can conjecture all you want but bottom line is, there are two people who know EXACTLY what happened that night and one of them is dead. You will never have a verdict that satisfies both sides.

The racist whites think Martin was a hood. The racist minorities think Zimmerman the racist.

The Black Panthers put a bounty on Zimmerman. Could you image if the races were reversed and the Skinheads put a bounty out? WOW

Hopefully, what ever comes out the public rests and no one else gets hurt.

[trish]

Who put his hands on who first is the one in the wrong.You're assuming there was only one person in the wrong and there was only one offense to be wrong about. If you shoot and and kill an unarmed person when your life is not in danger, then you may be found guilty of murder regardless of who laid a hand on who first.

[broncofan]

Wow.. there are some pretty strange opinions here...

There is nothing illegal about Zimmerman following someone through his condo complex parking lot. I can follow anyone I want as long as I'm not on someone's private property. (Think otherwise? Think paparazzi)

At one point, one engaged the other. Who put his hands on who first is the one in the wrong. It's doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him. If Trayvon hit him first, it's his fault. If Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon, then it's Zimmerman who's in the wrong.

Trayvon's own father said the voice on the 911 tape WAS NOT his son and he was 100% positive. Witness statements have changed drastically.

You can conjecture all you want but bottom line is, there are two people who know EXACTLY what happened that night and one of them is dead. You will never have a verdict that satisfies both sides.

The racist whites think Martin was a hood. The racist minorities think Zimmerman the racist.

The Black Panthers put a bounty on Zimmerman. Could you image if the races were reversed and the Skinheads put a bounty out? WOW

Hopefully, what ever comes out the public rests and no one else gets hurt.
You're confusing the issues. Of course what the Black Panthers did was wrong. But Zimmerman is still probably guilty. First of all, one doesn't have to do something illegal to be a first aggressor.

Second of all, one of the definitions of reckless, which is used as the mental state for manslaughter and even depraved heart murder, is to consciously disregard an unjustifiable risk. Following around an unarmed man with a gun is the definition of risk creation.

So, while the independent act of following someone around may not rise to the level of stalking (an illegal act in some states), it can be used to demonstrate recklessness, which would foreclose the argument of justification.

Even if Trayvon Martin committed unlawful assault, this would not justify shooting him dead. It would probably not even justify shooting to maim or injure him.

Finally, perhaps you should quote the person you think is expressing "strange opinions" and actually present a cogent counterargument.

[broncofan]

I also love how DaveinBoston tries to create the impression of impartiality by creating false equivalences. For instance, those who have tried to portray Trayvon Martin as a "thug" and a criminal who deserved to be "put down" are equivalent to those who think Zimmerman might have acted based on racial animus. It's the racist majority vs. the racist minorities. One would almost be tempted to forget the entire history of police abuse of African-Americans in this country, or the history of aggressive police tactics being used to harass African-Americans.

There's also the claim that I frequently hear from those who think a criminal case isn't worthy of much scrutiny such as "only two people know what happened and one of them is dead". Perhaps we shouldn't even have a trial because dead men can't speak? This is one of the reasons the facts are stated in terms of contingencies.

What I love most is the admonition to the angry public who wants to see a fair trial that the verdict needs to be accepted regardless of what it is. You are right that you will never have a verdict that pleases both sides as in most cases the defense wants "not guilty" and the prosecution "guilty". But I for one don't think that people should get shot and killed unless a valid self-defense argument can be made. I don't think it's sufficient for someone standing over the dead body of a teenager to say, "now prove your case without any witnesses." The jury is allowed to make inferences from the circumstances and the physical evidence even if George Zimmerman can fall back on a lack of eyewitness testimony to create doubt.

I also don't think that people should be subject to surveillance by armed, potentially unstable people when they are walking the streets. You say well it's not illegal. Well, it probably depends on the state and it is something the legislature should consider if one group of people is going to be subject to harassment by armed men.

[fastingforlife]

Imagine Trayvon as a white kid. Everyone on this board knows the police would have behaved differently, regardless of where in this Country the confrontation occurred. "An hispanic guy, killing an unharmed white juvenille....outrageous, throw the book at that dirtbag!"

I am guilty of the same kind of instinctual profiling, it is in my DNA. It is our inborn survival mechanism, to be wary of those who look and act different from us. The shame is, that no amount of diversity training, can overcome what is deeply inbedded in our brainstem. It is a crying shame, but it cannot be changed.

[broncofan]

Imagine Trayvon as a white kid. Everyone on this board knows the police would have behaved differently, regardless of where in this Country the confrontation occurred. "An hispanic guy, killing an unharmed white juvenille....outrageous, throw the book at that dirtbag!"

I am guilty of the same kind of instinctual profiling, it is in my DNA. It is our inborn survival mechanism, to be wary of those who look and act different from us. The shame is, that no amount of diversity training, can overcome what is deeply inbedded in our brainstem. It is a crying shame, but it cannot be changed.
I completely agree with you. I think the instinctual mechanism you speak of also involves guilt as well. People don't want to hear charges of racism made no matter how supported they are by the facts because they feel unable to distance themselves from those being accused. For instance, if George Zimmerman is guilty of murder and the justice system was not appropriately used, then they feel they are somehow complicit. So they do the only thing that actually involves a moral transgression in a situation they weren't personally involved in. They obscure the illegal acts and attempt to make the picture murkier by claiming everyone is wrong so therefore nobody is wrong.

But what you suggest is actually a fairly good technique. Imagine Trayvon Martin as a family member. Maybe he was hot-headed, maybe he was a wild kid, but essentially he was minding his own business. Now he's dead.

Also, imagine yourself spending your day in civilian clothing with a gun in your waistband following around teenage kids. Follow them at close range in a car; make yourself conspicuous. How often might you find yourself needing to use a gun? How often would you ordinarily need to pull a gun? As they say, "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Edit: also the reason the paparazzi gets additional room to engage in surveillance is because of their first amendment protection. In most invasion of privacy tort cases, the reason the law can't go further than it does is because there is a risk of jeopardizing a free press. This is one of the reasons in other countries without the equivalent of our first amendment, invasion of privacy can actually exist in public ironically.

[bobvela]

I see we're now speaking hypothetically. So if the hypothetical Martin said, "I've got a gun!" and the hypothetical Zimmerman shot him dead on the spot, it would obviously not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a pez dispenser, let alone a gun.

<removed due to nonsensicalness and length>

At last, I've got you thinking... rather than ranting emotionally (though I understand why)... though you did resort to emotional ranting later... shame I was slow in being able to reply.

I did not pick my examples aimlessly, each involves an increasing about of perceived threat to one party... however in each case the degree of the actual threat is unknown. Don't forget that the actual threat is not something you can fully know until after the fact (either the threat was made good on, removed, or false).

There is a reason why the law treats a person wielding a fake gun much the same way as a real one, while the actual threat is different from either item, the perceived threat is the same. Doing so may allow you to rob a liquor store successfully... but it also may get you shot by the police.

It all goes back to Q of how reasonable the fear of the perceived threat is.

You seem to think that claiming "I was afraid for my life" is a get out of jail free card. If it was, I would expect more bank robberies where the robber yells "I am afraid for my life" just before shooting a teller... thankfully, it's not. Instead it simply opens the door to if it was a legitimate fear or not, something that may have been acted upon during the incident, but that the police, prosecutor, and even a judge and jury may get to give an opinion on... which is exactly what is happening now (i.e. the system is working!).


If he shot to kill, then he had intent to kill. Doesn't sound like a good defense.

Wait, so Zimmerman's intent when shooting was to kill? I'd not heard this! Do please share your sources.

As an experienced hunter I know that a person or animal can be shot many places in the chest/upper body and live quite some time (without treatment)... hell my first deer lived more than 12 hours before succumbing because of a bad shot on my part (from the side and more or less between its lungs and intestines)... a mistake I will never repeat (if I can't make a clean kill on my game, I will hold my shot).

Q: How often does anyone... civilian, police, or military shoot to wound (instead of kill)? Why don't we just require it of all shooters? (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/of-real-life-police-work-and-the-tv-version/?partner=rss&emc=rss)

A: I'll tell you a secret... it's very rare. Sure... they could aim for a knee or an arm... but those are rather small targets, missing is easy and an unchecked bullet can wound or kill someone completely unrelated to the situation.

Trained and/or competent shooters, be they civilian, police or military know to shoot for center of mass... not because that's where all the vital organs are, but because it is an easier shot! ...and unless you are a trained/skilled shooter (which I'm guessing you are not), it's improper for you to talk about where one should/shouldn't shoot.

To re-iterate, the intent isn't necessarily to kill... but to remove the threat, which may (unfortunately) result in death.


You're assuming there was only one person in the wrong and there was only one offense to be wrong about. If you shoot and and kill an unarmed person when your life is not in danger, then you may be found guilty of murder regardless of who laid a hand on who first.

Bingo! To which I again remind you... the system is working! ... so wait... you don't like the system that we are now seeing?

Of course... as new evidence comes to light... it's becoming increasingly clear that Martin may have increasingly been in the wrong (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/26/interesting-development-trayvon-martin-quid-pro-quo-at-the-7-11/). Did that mean he deserved to die? Absolutly not, but it does paint an ever clear picture as to which side had more power to prevent what happend.

[giovanni_hotel]

Bobvela, you should be careful which sources you choose to site and understand why they have an agenda to smear Trayvon as somehow make him responsible for his own death.

I have smoked MANY blunts in my younger days and there's NO WAY I could have smoked a blunt completely in the short walk from the 7-11 to his father's GF's condo. I don't like the meme that if Trayvon was smoking pot, he somehow deserved his fate.
Maybe it will come out in open court, but there's been no evidence reported that a blunt was found on Trayvon's body after the shooting or among his personal affects.

The one detail that can't be ignored, except by George Zimmerman, was that Trayvon was ON HIS CELLPHONE for most his walk back to the condo. Why was this considering menacing or potentially criminal??
Also for those who believe Trayvon was dressed like a 'thug', notice the appearance of those White kids who came into the 7-11 after Martin left. One has his entire face wrapped in a scarf like a terrorist with only his eyes exposed. The other guy has a stocking cap pulled almost down over his eyes.

It might be Trayvon on the surveillance vid outside the store. It might not be. It's certainly not definitive enough to make the claim it absolutely is him.

The guy with the gun riding in the SUV still had the most responsibility to prevent this tragedy. That hasn't changed. Trayvon wasn't a stick up kid, he wasn't a cat burglar.
That Zimmerman thought he was isn't an excuse for shooting a kid dead.

[trish]

Hi Bob, unlike you I never stopped thinking, and unfortunately I wasn't able to get you started. Since you couldn't make yourself read, understand and answer the points I leveled against your post I see no reason to waste more time on you. Here's a link to my previous post.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1147777&postcount=1518

You might also try to learn how to interpret the word "if".

[bobvela]

Bobvela, you should be careful which sources you choose to site and understand why they have an agenda to smear Trayvon as somehow make him responsible for his own death.

Given the attempts by the media and some on this forum to smear Zimmerman as the most evil man to walk the earth since Hitler, and paint Martin as a child saint... it's not surprising that some would dig into what has gone on and draw other conclusions. When this whole thing began I was actually anti-Zimmerman as I'd listened only to media reports which made it sound like he was the aggressor and 100% at fault... with time and information my opinion changed.


I don't like the meme that if Trayvon was smoking pot, he somehow deserved his fate.

Again... that is not the claim of post I linked to, plus you'll note the last sentence of my post above:


Did that mean he deserved to die? Absolutly not, but it does paint an ever clear picture as to which side had more power to prevent what happend.

To split part of what you said:


I have smoked MANY blunts in my younger days and there's NO WAY I could have smoked a blunt completely in the short walk from the 7-11 to his father's GF's condo.
&
Maybe it will come out in open court, but there's been no evidence reported that a blunt was found on Trayvon's body after the shooting or among his personal affects.

Never having smoked blunts, or anything else for that matter... I cannot say how long it would take to do such a thing... but have known people who will put out what they are smoking so they can finish it later. Some of the speculation from the site I linked to speculates that Trayvon could easy have ditched whatever illicit material that he was carrying just in case the police did come.

Did that happen? Only Martin really knew... however given his drug history, the alleged activates at the 7-11, and the autopsy report, it's not too hard to believe that he was smoking pot on his walk home.


The one detail that can't be ignored, except by George Zimmerman, was that Trayvon was ON HIS CELLPHONE for most his walk back to the condo. Why was this considering menacing or potentially criminal??

On his cell phone on a hands free device if the contents of Martin's pockets are to believed... making his activities less clear to an observer... but let's go back to the 911 call though (edited for length):


This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around looking about.
...
Yeah, now he's coming toward me. He's got his hands in his waist band.
...
Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

Zimmerman thought Martin was up to no good, Martin was aware of Zimmerman and decided to check him out before running. Again, this paints a picture that given the recent break-ins in the area, someone was being a good neighbor by keeping an eye out, saw someone who he didn't recognize in the area who looked to be on drugs looking odd... something that a concerned neighbor should call the police about.

Broncofan hinted at this above... while you are free in a place you are legally able to be to ask anyone else "Who are you? What are you doing here?" or most anything else you... they are just as free to say "go to hell." Unless you have witnessed a crime (of a certain level) occurring or there is a clear and present threat, you can do little more than watch and report... which is from what I can tell, what happened here before things became escalated.


The guy with the gun riding in the SUV still had the most responsibility to prevent this tragedy.

Again, I am not saying Martin deserved to die, or that Zimmerman is blameless as well... I am simply pointing out that a series of events were put in motion that both men had a say in. Both parties played a part in this and your explicit claim that Zimmerman had "the most responsibility" ignores everything else that lead to the confrontation.


That hasn't changed. Trayvon wasn't a stick up kid, he wasn't a cat burglar. That Zimmerman thought he was isn't an excuse for shooting a kid dead.

I was unaware that anyone had seriously claimed that Zimmerman got out of his SUV thinking "Hrm, he looks like a cat burglar, I think I'll shoot him just in case!"

Again, what happened was an unfortunate and tragic end to a series of events that both parties could have prevented at some point along the path... many of which the potential consequences of which were not known.

Had Zimmerman not fired
Had Martin not jumped on top of Zimmerman and repeatedly punched him
Had Zimmerman not gotten out of his car
Had Martin not walked by the car
Had Zimmerman not been suspicious of someone walking around in the rain
Had Martin not been smoking pot that night
Had Zimmerman not been on patrol that night
Had Martin not been suspended for school for drug use
Had Zimmerman not been a neighborhood watch volunteer
Had the Martin parents never had Trayvon
Had the Zimmerman parents never had George

... how far back should we go?

[bobvela]

Hi Bob, unlike you I never stopped thinking, and unfortunately I wasn't able to get you started.

Really? I'd like to see some evidence of that. Instead it's more likely you are simply incapable of a rational response...

You'll note that I raised some points, you half assed addressed them (as I'd expected you to)... then I tied the whole lot together with my reply to explain the underlying point which you seemingly missed (ie "I was afraid for my life" isn't a get out of jail free card and the system is working to determine of Zimmerman's killing of Martin is/was justified/excusable). Rather than reply in kind, you hurl attempted insults? It's a shame you either didn't read or consider what I said above, because I replied to your underlying points quite well.


Since you couldn't make yourself read, understand and answer the points I leveled against your post I see no reason to waste more time on you. Here's a link to my previous post.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1147777&postcount=1518

Just because I do not quite every single word that you said doesn't mean I didn't read or respond to your comments. In fact, if you would care to point out a part or idea of your post that I missed... I'd love to hear it! But since you fail to do any such thing here I again go back to my earlier point... you are clearly unable to respond with rational and/or coherent thought here, so instead unleash attempts attacks.


You might also try to learn how to interpret the word "if".

Funny... I'm a professional software engineer, that word is one of the key constructs of my industry... I'd wager I am far more familiar with it than you.

[eded]

POLICE: Black teenagers light 13-year-old on fire; &#39;You get what you deserve, white boy&#39; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWT5k-T41I)

[maddygirl]

POLICE: Black teenagers light 13-year-old on fire; 'You get what you deserve, white boy' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWT5k-T41I)
That's horrible...

[trish]

Look Bob. Your orginal “by your logic” post to me was one list of idiotic insults. Nevertheless, I responded to each accusation explaining how none of the inferences you drew followed from my logic. I finished that post with a little “by your logic” coda just to give you the flavor of your own medicine. You opened your rebuttal to my response with an insult. That’s okay. But then don’t complain when get an insult or two in return. Every time you post it seems you provide us with evidence that you still aren’t thinking yet.

Perhaps you can explain to us Mr. Genius Software Engineer how it is then that you got so fucked up in your understanding the word "if". When I say "If X, then Y" it doesn't follow that I need to provide a link certifying the veracity of Y now does it? The interpretation might be that if one believed Y were false, then one would have to believe the same of X. LOL

[trish]

It all goes back to Q of how reasonable the fear of the perceived threat is.
On this we nearly agree. I would say the question is, “How reasonable was the judgment that the situation required the use of potentially and likely deadly force?” The emotional state is irrelevent and in fact may hamper proper judgement.


You seem to think that claiming "I was afraid for my life" is a get out of jail free card. The Florida police department seemed to think so too. Perhaps it has something to do with their interpretation of the SYG law together with laziness and a propensity to prejudge situations based on stereotypes.



<Originally Posted by trish
You're assuming there was only one person in the wrong and there was only one offense to be wrong about. If you shoot and and kill an unarmed person when your life is not in danger, then you may be found guilty of murder regardless of who laid a hand on who first.>

Bingo! To which I again remind you... the system is working!No, the system didn’t work. Only when the media and the general public stepped in did the system shift gears and look seriously into the case.

[giovanni_hotel]

You're playing rhetorical games, Bobvela.

The autopsy reports said that Trayvon had trace amounts of THC in his bloodstream. If Trayvon had just taken three or four drags off a blunt, he would have had a significant THC spike in his blood count, not a trace level residual amount that showed prior use at minimum days earlier.

You don't think Sanford PD didn't want to find drugs on Martin?? It's easier to justify Zommerman's claims with multiple plausible scenarios if they could infer on scene that Trayvon was involved in illicit drug activity.

There was nothing justified about what Zimmerman did, or the spot judgement he made about Trayvon being a potential criminal. THis is what it comes down to and why the majority of the responsibility for what happened after Zimmerman left his SUV is his fault alone. George saw a Black kid walking through this gated community and assumed criminal intent. His judgement call was horrifically wrong and led directly to another human being's murder.

All this crap about analyzing surveillance tape to infer the state of mind or intentions of Trayvon Martin is irrelevant. Nothing Martin did that night justified Zimmerman's violent response, except his skin color, which George Zimmerman decided to criminalize.

[broncofan]

Hi Bobvela,
you make some good points but I still think the verdict ultimately comes down to manslaughter at least. As you say, you cannot know what the result of not acting will be until it is too late. But the law requires self-defense to be proportionate to the violence used by the aggressor. Let's assume the aggressor was Trayvon Martin, something that I don't really believe.

In self-defense cases, the law uses a fairly objective standard in evaluating the degree of threat. That is to say, if George Zimmerman was unreasonable in believing his life was in danger, then he does not have a valid self-defense claim. Someone who is defending himself is not assumed to have only two options; to kill someone or to be completely passive. The right to use deadly force is only justified when defending against deadly force, or in some cases within one's home.

If we were to accept your argument that the reasonableness of Zimmerman's defense depended on what kind of weapon he was carrying, the argument could get somewhat extreme depending on what types of weapons people chose to walk around with. What if for instance Zimmerman was carrying an elephant gun? Would his decision come down to doing nothing to defend himself or firing a weapon fit to bring down a multi-ton elephant at a teenager? His attacker was unarmed and smaller than he was, and while it's plausible that one could have to use deadly force against an unarmed individual, nothing indicates Zimmerman's life was in danger. A physical altercation is not enough. Being the victim of assault is not enough.

Also, in murder cases intent comes in multiple forms. The old criminal law used to use the words specific and general intent. These complicate the analysis a little bit. The model penal code if memory serves uses purpose, knowledge, and recklessness. Purpose is if you do something where your object is to achieve a certain result. For instance shoot to kill. Knowledge is where you do something where you know what the outcome will be but that is not necessarily your aim. For example, you want someone to get out of your way so you shoot at them with the knowledge they will be killed. Recklessness is where you consciously disregard a known risk. For instance, you are aware that shooting at someone is likely to kill them but you don't care. Purpose intent is not required and recklessness is usually made out by a killing that was not complete self-defense (imperfect self-defense argument).

[broncofan]

Had Zimmerman not fired
Had Martin not jumped on top of Zimmerman and repeatedly punched him
Had Zimmerman not gotten out of his car
Had Martin not walked by the car
Had Zimmerman not been suspicious of someone walking around in the rain
Had Martin not been smoking pot that night
Had Zimmerman not been on patrol that night
Had Martin not been suspended for school for drug use
Had Zimmerman not been a neighborhood watch volunteer
Had the Martin parents never had Trayvon
Had the Zimmerman parents never had George

... how far back should we go?
This is an important issue as well. In law they try to find cause in fact. Without any limitation, you can go even further back than this. So the limitation is usually proximate cause in tort cases. In criminal cases, you need both an act and intent to be guilty of a crime (except for a limited number of strict liability offenses). If you kill someone using force, and it was not an accident or the result of a lack of capacity, you need justification. Justification is a lot harder to make out than people think.

I remember in crim. law we had this long argument where a very stubborn student insisted that if someone robbed him at gunpoint, then dropped his gun, and ran away, he would be "justified" in killing them. That one is not even close. Some people's intuition may be that he would be, but doing so would be murder. If Trayvon Martin committed assault then this is a closer case than that. But it's still a lot harder than people assume it should be. How far back do you go? In reckless homicide cases, they blame you for behaving in a way that gives rise to the set of risks that led to someone's death. For instance, if you are accused of vehicular manslaughter, you are not allowed to use the fact that you were drinking as a defense that you did not have the requisite mental state. Why is that? Well, you chose to drink and then to get into a car which actually creates a presumption of recklessnes. What if the drink was spiked? Well, then you have a possible defense.

But if Zimmerman cannot plausibly argue that when he fired his gun, he believed his life was in danger (the subjective component) and he was reasonable in believing his life was in danger (the objective component), then we don't need to go back any further. Guilty as charged!!!

[natina]

weed or cannabis does not make you violent.

the report states that the thc in martins system was consistent with someone not smoking weed for 3 days. basically the amount of THC in trayvon martins blood means he did not smoke weed for three days

[yourdaddy]

His lawyer will blame it on the Trayvon case. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/victim-in-face-chewing-attack-identified-as-cops-recount-goriest-crime/#ixzz1wK3p4veJ

[giovanni_hotel]

His lawyer will blame it on the Trayvon case. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/victim-in-face-chewing-attack-identified-as-cops-recount-goriest-crime/#ixzz1wK3p4veJ

So what??

When has revenge ever been a credible defense in a criminal case??

[broncofan]

His lawyer will blame it on the Trayvon case. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/victim-in-face-chewing-attack-identified-as-cops-recount-goriest-crime/#ixzz1wK3p4veJ
Generally, I don't like responding to a post by saying, "you're an idiot." But in your zeal to put this up here you didn't read the article. THE MAN IS DEAD.

Since when do dead men get tried for crimes? Since when do dead men have lawyers representing them?

More proof that Foxnews consumers aren't actually interested in the news but in their own burning agenda.

[broncofan]

His lawyer will blame it on the Trayvon case. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/victim-in-face-chewing-attack-identified-as-cops-recount-goriest-crime/#ixzz1wK3p4veJ

"The officer shot Eugene, but he just kept chewing, Vega said. The officer fired again, killing Eugene."

Attention Fox News Readers: Do not ignore sentences such as this. When trying to post a completely irrelevant article to take attention away from the main issue please get the facts right.

[natina]

FOX NEWS FOR IDIOTS



STUDY FINDS THAT Fox News Makes You Stupid?


http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/article/fox-news-makes-you-stupid



FOX NEWS INSIDER: “Stuff Is Just Made Up”

Asked what most viewers and observers of Fox News would be surprised to learn about the controversial cable channel, a former insider from the world of Rupert Murdoch was quick with a response: “I don’t think people would believe it’s as concocted as it is; that stuff is just made up.”

Indeed, a former Fox News employee who recently agreed to talk with Media Matters confirmed what critics have been saying for years about Murdoch’s cable channel. Namely, that Fox News is run as a purely partisan operation, virtually every news story is actively spun by the staff, its primary goal is to prop up Republicans and knock down Democrats, and that staffers at Fox News routinely operate without the slightest regard for fairness or fact checking.

“It is their M.O. to undermine the administration and to undermine Democrats,” says the source. “They’re a propaganda outfit but they call themselves news.”

And that’s the word from inside Fox News.

Note the story here isn’t that Fox News leans right. Everyone knows the channel pushes a conservative-friendly version of the news. Everyone who’s been paying attention has known that since the channel’s inception more than a decade ago. The real story, and the real danger posed by the cable outlet, is that over time Fox News stopped simply leaning to the right and instead became an open and active political player, sort of one-part character assassin and one-part propagandist, depending on which party was in power. And that the operation thrives on fabrications and falsehoods.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102100007

WARNING! BREAKING NEWS!:exposure to Fox News makes voters stupid, university study finds




exposure to Fox News makes voters stupid, university study finds


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/16/study-confirms-spin-fox-news-voters-stupid/

[natina]

Fox News Viewers Believe the Darndest Things, Study Finds


(Dec. 17) -- Fair and balanced ... and factually incorrect?

A newly released study out of the University of Maryland concludes that viewers of the Fox News Channel were "significantly more likely" to believe a host of factually incorrect information than viewers who watched other television news organizations.

Fox is by no means the only media outlet guilty of spreading what the study considers misniformation, but the channel's viewers were found to believe incorrect views on matters of established fact in much higher percentages than those peple who got their news of the world elsewhere.

Those who watched Fox News during the 2010 election cycle were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that ...

... most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely).

... most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points more likely).

... the economy is getting worse (26 points more likely).

... most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points more likely).

... the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points more likely).

... their own income taxes have gone up (14 points).

... the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points).

... when TARP came up for a vote, most Republicans opposed it (12 points).

... it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points).

The study found that it wasn't just Republican Fox viewers who were swayed to believe the less-than-accurate information. Democratic viewers of the channel also more likely to believe those things, too.

Surge Desk's calls to the Fox News Channel for comment on the study were not returned.



http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/17/fox-news-viewers-believe-the-darndest-things-study-finds/

[tsdvdman]

The latest
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-190108284.html

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman has 48 hours to report to jail, his bond was revoked.

[Silcc69]

I haven't been on this this board for a few months, but was it ever discussed how Zimmerman came up with all of those donations? I have heard that the Koch brothers were donating a shit ton of money but never could found out if it was true or not.

[Token Williams-Black]

The latest
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-190108284.html
Note to self: don't read the comments...

[giovanni_hotel]

He set up a site on the interwebz to raise money for his legal bills and like minded individuals sent him cash.
It's not like he raised millions of dollars, but even the $100,000 he got is significant.

[Silcc69]

Note to self: don't read the comments...

The right wing zealots are out full force today.

[Queens Guy]

I haven't been on this this board for a few months, but was it ever discussed how Zimmerman came up with all of those donations? I have heard that the Koch brothers were donating a shit ton of money but never could found out if it was true or not.


The Koch brothers are a boogeyman for some on the left of the political spectrum, the way Soros is a boogeyman for some of those on the right of the political spectrum. I'm skeptical of anybody that uses these boogeyman arguments.

Zimmerman raised around $200 thousand dollars. The Koch brothers have very, very deep pockets. $200k is nothing to them. It came in much smaller amounts from regular citizens.

[Silcc69]

The Koch brothers are a boogeyman for some on the left of the political spectrum, the way Soros is a boogeyman for some of those on the right of the political spectrum. I'm skeptical of anybody that uses these boogeyman arguments.

Zimmerman raised around $200 thousand dollars. The Koch brothers have very, very deep pockets. $200k is nothing to them. It came in much smaller amounts from regular citizens.

LOL at your boogeyman comment. But I found a link. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/04/have-our-news-organizations-gone-crazy.php

I'm not a huge fan of the Koch brothers but I did want to find out more info rather than just jumping the gun.

[giovanni_hotel]

The Koch Brothers aren't bogeymen. They are one of the chief benefactors for Americans For Prosperity, a front group behind the Tea Party movement and against renewable energy initiatives.
THe Koch Brothers have spent almost a million dollars in ads defending Gov. Scott Walker against a recall election.

George Soros is a deep pocket Democratic donor, but he's not trying to control the entire political process from behind the curtain like the Koch brothers.

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS!:ZIMMERMAN bail revoked,judge calls him a lier

A Florida judge on Friday revoked the bail for George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin case, saying he had misled the court about his finances, and ordered him to present himself to the court within 48 hours.
Prosecutors alleged that Zimmerman, 28, hid from the court the fact that he had raised $135,000 on a website he set up before he was granted $150,000 bail on April 20. Zimmerman is facing second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of Martin, 17, in February.
In a hearing in Sanford, Fla., that Zimmerman did not attend, Judge Kenneth Lester said Zimmerman engaged in a "material falsehood" about his finances.
Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda said Zimmerman's wife, Shelly, led the court to believe they were penniless, which he called a “blatant lie."
De la Rionda said the Zimmermans spoke in "code" about moving finances around during telephone calls while George Zimmerman was in custody.
The state also alleged Zimmerman held a second passport after surrendering one to the court when bail was granted. In revoking bail, Lester said he was not swayed by arguments about the second passport, often routinely obtained by people who lose their passports.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120601-zimmerman-vmed-1107a.380;380;7;70.jpg
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/01/12010484-judge-revokes-bail-for-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite/


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120601-zimmerman-vmed-1107a.380;380;7;70.jpg

[natina]

chlorinafettchina;
'On The Political Forum Conservatives Bragged How "



they were monetarily standing up for Zimmy by donating to his website...who knew that the money they donated would be the reason he was put back in the slammer.

It's estimated that he could be locked up for 2 years before his trial starts...what a dumb ass.

[natina]

Did Zimmerman and his wife talk in code?


Anderson Cooper talks about George Zimmerman's revoked bond with his lawyer and a lawyer for Trayvon Martin's family.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/02/ac-omara-crump-zimmerman-bond.cnn

George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara defends his client to Anderson Cooper after his bond was revoked.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2012/06/02/ac-omara-zimmerman-bond-revoked.cnn

[natina]

PERU HAS THE LARGEST AFRICAN POPULATION;ZIMmerman IS Peruvian




one of the most important VIDEOS FOR EDUCATION FROM A PROFESSOR OF A PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY

Program: Black in Latin America
Episode: Mexico & Peru: A Hidden Race
Professor Gates explores the almost unknown history their significant black populations: the two countries together received far more slaves than did the United States.
• Visit the Mexico & Peru: A Hidden Race webpage

http://video.pbs.org/video/1915580662/
http://video.pbs.org/video/1915580662/
http://video.pbs.org/video/1915580662/
http://video.pbs.org/video/1915580662

[natina]

The credibility of Trayvon Martin's shooter could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a bond, legal experts say.
That's because the case hinges on jurors believing his account of what happened the night the 19-year-old was killed.
The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine the defendant's credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McCLean, who is a former prosecutor.
"The other key witness, unfortunately is deceased," McClean said. "Basically, Zimmerman is going to be asking the jury to believe his version of the facts ... As the case stands now, his credibility is absolutely critical to the case."
Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder for the February shooting. The neighborhood watch volunteer says he shot Martin in self-defense because the unarmed 17-year-old was beating him up after confronting Zimmerman about following him in a gated community outside Orlando.
Witness accounts of the rainy night Martin was shot are spotty. There is no video of the fight, though photos prosecutors have released showed Zimmerman with wounds to his face and the back of his head.
Zimmerman's credibility with the judge would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.
"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a `stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.
Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.
Zimmerman was arrested 44 days after the killing, and during a bond hearing in April, his wife, Shellie, testified that the couple had limited funds available. The hearing also was notable because Zimmerman took the stand and apologized to Martin's parents.
Prosecutors pointed out in their motion that Zimmerman had $135,000 available then. It had been raised from donations through a website he set up and they suggested more has been collected since and deposited in a bank account.
Shellie Zimmerman was asked about the website at the hearing, but she said she didn't know how much money had been raised. Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester set bail at $150,000. The 28-year-old was freed a few days later after posting $15,000 in cash -- which is typical -- and has since been in hiding.
Prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda complained Friday, "This court was led to believe they didn't have a single penny. It was misleading and I don't know what words to use other than it was a blatant lie." The judge agreed and ordered Zimmerman returned to jail by Sunday afternoon.
"Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That's the issue," Lester said. "He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond based upon those material falsehoods."
The defense countered that Zimmerman and his wife never used the money for anything, which indicated "there was no deceit." His attorney, Mark O'Mara, said it wouldn't be a problem to bring Zimmerman back into custody by the deadline.
The judge said he would schedule a hearing after Zimmerman is back in custody so he could explain himself.
Police in Sanford did not immediately arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida's "stand your ground" law that gives wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat in a fight if people believe they are in danger of being killed or seriously injured.
Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, said his clients have always said Zimmerman should remain in jail until trial, which O'Mara said he believed wouldn't be until next year.
Crump was asked if he thought that if Zimmerman would be willing to lie about his finances that he would be willing to lie about what happen the night Martin was killed.
"We fully expect that the special prosecutor will make George Zimmerman's credibility be front and center in this entire case," Crump said. "And whatever dishonesty that comes forth by George Zimmerman that they can prove, you can best believe it will become the issue of this case."
The revocation of Zimmerman's bond also puts pressure on O'Mara to not delay the trial, McClean said.
"When your client is out on bond, the pressure is much lighter to rush to trial ... because your client is sitting at home," he said. "When your client is sitting at the Seminole County Jail, your client is going to want this resolved.

[natina]

The motion filed by prosecutors claims that Zimmerman "misrepresented, mislead [sic] and deceived the court."

motion TO REVOKE BOND

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/121850210/Zimmerman-Motion-to-Revoke-Bond

At that April hearing, defense attorney Mark O'Mara questioned Shelly Zimmerman, George Zimmerman's wife, who said she had no idea how much was in the account.
Prosecutors claimed that Zimmerman and his wife knowingly colluded to hide those funds, collected through a Paypal account attached to a website that Zimmerman launched to raise funds for his defense and thank his supporters.
"This court was led to believe they didn't have a single penny," Prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda said at Friday's hearing. "It was misleading, and I don't know what words to use other than it was a blatant lie."
According to the conditions of Zimmerman's release, he was to be monitored by GPS and surrender his passport.

During Friday's motion hearing, prosecutors said that Zimmerman also failed to disclose or turn over a second passport in his possession. According to the motion, Zimmerman acquired a second passport in 2004 after filing a claim with the State Department that his original passport was lost or stolen.
But, according to prosecutors, while Zimmerman was in custody at the Seminole County jail on April 17, he had a conversation with his wife in which the couple discussed the second passport. The conversation was recorded by jail officials:

Defendant: Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag.Shelly Zimmerman: I have one for you in safety deposit box...
Defendant: Ok, you hold on to that.

"It really is important what the judge did, because this whole case -- the crux of this case -- is about George Zimmerman's credibility," Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Martin's family, told The Huffington Post not long after the judge's ruling. "The court found that Zimmerman was dishonest, that he lied in court."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/01/george-zimmermans-bond-re_n_1563304.html

[natina]

George Zimmerman has until Sunday afternoon to surrender to authorities after a judge revoked his bond for misleading the court about his finances.
Seminole County Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. ordered him back to jail, saying the 28-year-old was not truthful about how much money he had access to when he was freed on bond in April.
Lester's ruling on Friday followed allegations by prosecutors that Zimmerman had $135,000. At the time, his wife told the court under oath that the family was indigent.



The money in question appears to have been donated to Zimmerman through a website he set up to help with a legal defense fund.
Citing recorded jailhouse conversations between Zimmerman and his wife, prosecutors alleged the two spoke in code when discussing the money in a credit union account, according to a court documents filed Friday by State Attorney Angela B. Corey.
In light of that, Lester revoked Zimmerman's bond and ordered he turn himself in no later than Sunday afternoon.
Zimmerman "fully controlled and participated in the transfer of money from the PayPal account to defendant and his wife's credit union accounts," Corey said in court records. "This occurred prior to the time defendant was arguing to the court that he was indigent and his wife had no money."
Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's attorney, said in April that the money raised by the website was put into a trust account that the attorney controls.
But in court documents, Corey said the money still belongs to the defendant.
The judge "relied on false representations and statements" by Zimmerman and his wife when the court set his bond at $150,000, Corey said. Zimmerman was required to post only 10% of that.
Corey argued that the court should revoke the bond or increase it.
Lester appeared angry that the court had not been told about the money.
"Does your client get to sit there like a potted palm and let you lead me down the primrose path?" he asked Zimmerman's lawyer. "That's the issue."
O'Mara said he had discussed the judge's decision with Zimmerman, who was not in court.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

[natina]

msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47657908#47650450)


msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47657908#47650205)

msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47657908#47653182)

msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47657908#47657229)

[natina]

Martin's family contends that Zimmerman racially profiled the 17-year-old who was walking home from a convenience store. Martin was black; Zimmerman his white Hispanic. His family has said Zimmerman did not act out of racial bias.
Opinion: Trayvon Martin shooting wasn't a case of racial profiling (http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/30/opinion/nejame-zimmerman-racial-profiling/index.html)
Lester ordered Zimmerman back to jail, saying the 28-year-old was not truthful about how much money he had access to when he was freed on bond in April.
Lester's ruling on Friday followed allegations by prosecutors that Zimmerman had $135,000. At the time, his wife told the court under oath that the family was indigent.
Zimmerman's attorneys said they will request a new bond hearing to address the issue. "The defense team hopes that Mr. Zimmerman's voluntary surrender to Sanford police will help demonstrate to the court that he is not a flight risk. Furthermore, the vast majority of the funds in question are in an independently managed trust" which Zimmerman and his attorneys cannot access directly, the statement on his defense website said.
Asked about the possibility that Zimmerman's wife could be charged with perjury, O'Mara said that statement was out of his control. He said his client is worried about himself, his wife and his family -- everyone who had to go into hiding because of the "enormous anger and hatred" the case has generated.
Zimmerman's trial is not "anticipated" to commence until some time in 2013, the defense statement said, and the next bond hearing will determine whether he waits "those many months in jail or not."
Zimmerman was charged in April after the case was referred to a state attorney for a review.
The money in question appears to have been donated to Zimmerman (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html) through a website he set up to help with a legal defense fund.
Citing recorded jailhouse conversations between Zimmerman and his wife, prosecutors alleged the two spoke in code when discussing the money in a credit union account, according to a court documents filed Friday by State Attorney Angela B. Corey.
HLN: Zimmerman wife talks publicly for the first time (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/20/who-shellie-zimmerman-shooters-wife-talks-public-first-time-hearing?hpt=hp_t1)
In light of that, Lester revoked Zimmerman's bond and ordered he turn himself in no later than Sunday afternoon.
Zimmerman "fully controlled and participated in the transfer of money from the PayPal account to defendant and his wife's credit union accounts," Corey said in court records. "This occurred prior to the time defendant was arguing to the court that he was indigent and his wife had no money."
O'Mara said in April that the money raised by the website was put into a trust account that the attorney controls.
But in court documents, Corey said the money still belongs to the defendant.
The judge "relied on false representations and statements" by Zimmerman and his wife when the court set his bond at $150,000, Corey said. Zimmerman was required to post only 10% of that amount.
Corey argued that the court should revoke the bond or increase it.
Lester appeared angry that the court had not been told about the money.
"Does your client get to sit there like a potted palm and let you lead me down the primrose path?" he asked Zimmerman's lawyer. "That's the issue."



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[natina]

at issue Zimmerman's violent past
PROSECUTIONS BRINGS IT UP IN COURT

On Friday, Shellie Zimmerman, in her first public comments since the February 26 shooting in Sanford, Florida, told the court that she is a nursing student four weeks from graduation. She testified that she had no income and was not of the financial means to provide bond in the case.
When asked if she had talked about securing money for Zimmerman's bond she said: "We have discussed that, trying to pull together members of the family to try to scrape up anything that we can."
When asked if she thought he was a danger to the community, Shellie Zimmerman said: "No, I do not," she said. "There's no concern whatsoever."
But state prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda brought up two altercations in George Zimmerman’s past, including one arrest. "Yes, he has informed me of those charges," Shellie Zimmerman said. Later, she added, "He's not a violent person, nor is he a threat to the community."


http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/20/who-shellie-zimmerman-shooters-wife-talks-public-first-time-hearing?hpt=hp_t1

[natina]

zimmermans wife & zimmerman could face perjury charges

High Profile criminal defense attorney Barry Cohen weighs in on George Zimmerman's return to jail
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/article/257786/8/Lawyer-weighs-in-on-Zimmermans-return-to-jail


Shellie Zimmerman George Zimmerman’s wife to face perjury charges
George Zimmerman, The Man Who Killed Trayvon Martin And Spoke In Code To His Wife About Passports And Secret Money Received From Racist Groups Is Back In Custody Of Florida Authorities, Highlight Hollywood News (http://www.highlighthollywood.com/2012/06/03/georege-zimmerman-the-man-who-killed-trayvon-martin-and-spoke-in-code-to-his-wife-about-passports-and-secret-money-received-from-racist-groups-is-back-in-custody-of-florida-authorities-highlight-hol/)


George Zimmerman, known as the unofficial gun-toting neighborhood watch volunteer charged with murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, surrendered to police Sunday and was booked into jail after having his bail revoked two days earlier for lying to a Florida judge. Zimmerman’s legal team said in a tweet that he was in police custody. Zimmerman’s bail was revoked because the judge said he and his wife lied to the court about their finances so he could obtain a lower bond.

http://www.highlighthollywood.com/tag/shellie-zimmerman-george-zimmermans-wife-to-face-perjury-charges/

[natina]

TELLING IT LIKE IT IS BUBBA
http://www.wtsp.com/rss/article/246080/250/Bring-it-on-Bubba-Trayvon-Martin

[natina]

fake trayvon martin photo circulating,originated on a white supremacist website.

Over the weekend, a picture began circulating that claimed to show Martin in a less-than-flattering light: shirtless, sagging pants, and giving the finger to the camera.
The image quickly circulated across blogs and websites, with many claiming it as evidence that Martin was not as innocent as family and supporters claimed, as well as alleging media bias.
There is one problem to that claim: the picture is not Trayvon Martin.
Or at the very least, he's not the one who made worldwide headlines after his death. The Facebook page the picture came from appears to belong to a different Trayvon Martin, whereas the image is nowhere to be found on the slain teen's profile (https://www.facebook.com/people/Trayvon-Slimm-Martin/1353307542#!/people/Trayvon-Slimm-Martin/1353307542?sk=photos).
Street Wise Pundit, a liberal blog, claims the widely circulated "fake" Trayvon Martin picture (http://www.streetwisepundit.com/wrong-trayvon-martin-photo-on-facebook.html) originated on a white supremacist website.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/247194/352/Fake-Trayvon-Martin-picture-circulates-on-the-web

[natina]

LIAR! Zimmerman’s Photos Do Not Show Life Or Death Struggle (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/)

Thursday, May 17, 2012
http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo.jpg?405703 (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/zimmeran-evidence-photo/)
After months of feet dragging, covers up and outright lies by the Sanford police department and the national media, the photographs of George Zimmerman’s injuries the night he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin have finally been released.
The good quality photos show superficial scratches on Zimmerman’s face and on the back of his head. The photos do not prove Zimmerman’s claims that he was in a life and death struggle with the unarmed teenager when he shot and killed him.

http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo-3.jpg?405703 (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/zimmeran-evidence-photo-3/)
Zimmerman’s father, Robert Zimmerman, and a family physician claims Zimmerman had two black eyes and a broken nose as the result of a scuffle with Trayvon. The photos show no evidence of those injuries.
In fact, singer Rihanna’s face looked worse than George Zimmerman’s the night she was beaten to a pulp by her ex-boyfriend Chris Brown in 2009.
Zimmerman’s photos were released by the state attorney’s office today in accordance with Florida public record law. The law requires the state to share evidence with both the defendant and the public.



http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo-100x131.jpg?405703 (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/zimmeran-evidence-photo/)http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo-2-100x138.jpg?405703 (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/zimmeran-evidence-photo-2/)http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo-3-100x66.jpg?405703 (http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/zimmeran-evidence-photo-3/)



http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/

[natina]

FBI May Charge Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty



The FBI may have enough evidence to charge Trayvon Martin’s killer with a hate crime. George Zimmerman was arrested in April and charged with 2nd degree murder in the February shooting death of the 17-year-old Miami high school student.

Zimmerman, 28, told police he shot the unarmed teen in self defense following a brief altercation. According to WFTV, the FBI is actively questioning residents of the Retreat of Twin Lakes community, and they could charge Zimmerman with a hate crime even if he is acquitted of killing Trayvon Martin.

He could face the death penalty if found guilty of a hate crime.



New information reveals Zimmerman’s story was inconsistent in the hours following the shooting.




http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/fbi-may-charge-zimmerman-with-hate-crime-could-face-death-penalty/

[natina]

(Reuters)acknowledged his client has credibility problem

On Friday Judge Lester revoked Zimmerman's bond, posted in April while he was awaiting trial, after prosecutors said he had withheld one of two valid passports and his wife did not tell the court about money donated for his legal defense.

Zimmerman returned to Central Florida, arriving late Saturday evening

Zimmerman will be housed in administrative confinement, segregated from the general prison population, "due to the high profile nature of the case," the Sheriff's office said.

In a defense team statement on Sunday, O'Mara said he planned to seek a new bond hearing and hoped his client's voluntary surrender "will help demonstrate to the court that he is not a flight risk."

But he said he was undecided whether allowing Zimmerman to testify in a bond hearing would be wise, and acknowledged his client has a credibility problem after alleged jailhouse phone calls with his wife in which the prosecution says the couple conspired to hide the passport and money from the court.

"It's a question of credibility with Mr Zimmerman and that credibility has been attacked or tarnished and, now that has to be rehabilitated," O'Mara said.

He would not speculate about whether Zimmerman's wife might be charged with perjury. "I believe she'll have counsel," he said. Zimmerman was "very worried about Shelly, about a lot of issues," he added.

RECORDED CALLS

Zimmerman's whereabouts were unknown during the weeks following his release after spending 11 nights in April in a Sanford jail cell. His lawyer declined to discuss his location or living arrangements, citing death threats and fears about Zimmerman's security.

Prosecutors alleged in court on Friday that his wife knew about donations for his legal defense fund, now totaling in excess of $200,000, but she failed to disclose the money at his bond hearing.

"The defendant's wife lied to this court," prosecutor Bernardo de la Rionda told the judge.
The motion to revoke Zimmerman's bond cited phone calls made to his wife from jail in which Zimmerman instructed his wife in coded language to transfer money into her personal account.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE85207Q20120603

[Silcc69]

Spiggity spam!

[buds]

just want to spam up some pictures of martin for those who forgot

http://cdn2.dailycaller.com/2012/03/pasc-tr1yv4n-r2tr1ct34n-2d3t2d.jpg
http://cdn2.dailycaller.com/2012/03/Photo_on_2010-06-17_at_16.05__2_DC.jpg
http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/trayvon-martin-double-finger.jpg

[natina]

CNN:Zimmerman attorney. admits credibility issue
CNN's Erin Burnett reports on the latest developments in the George Zimmerman case.
CNN video
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/04/exp-eb-zimmerman-bond-hearing.cnn


http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg




Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'

Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman."

The evidence – including 183 pages of documents, witness statements and other material – was released Thursday to news organizations and other requestors by special prosecutor Angela Corey’s office, who has charged the 28-year-old Zimmerman with second-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Martin on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla. Also included was a document explaining what material was withheld.

But another police report indicated that Zimmerman, who is white and of Hispanic heritage, had called Sanford police on at least four previous occasions while residing in the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community in Sanford, and in each case the “suspicious person” was a black male.

“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2001, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

Zimmerman himself was on a prescription for Tamazepam, according to the paramedic's incident report reproducing his medical records. (Tamazepam is also known as Restoril and is prescribed for anxiety and insomnia.)


http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?lite

[Token Williams-Black]

So he's flipping people off...BIG DEAL!

[natina]

Papantonio: Tea Party Rushes To Defend Trayvon Martin Killer
Papantonio: Tea Party Rushes To Defend Trayvon Martin Killer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVYmVWGXRSA)

[buds]

So he's flipping people off...BIG DEAL!

You are correct, its no big deal.

For some reason i can't seem to find any of George doing the same thing though

[trish]

They didn't have facebook when George was seventeen.

[natina]

but zimmerman beats on women

he makes dispargeing remarks about mexicans

Michael Eric Dyson Shuts Down Racist Views About The Trayvon Martin Murder
Michael Eric Dyson Shuts Down Racist Views About The Trayvon Martin Murder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHiPUVzFvc4)

Michael Eric Dyson brilliantly dismantles the racist arguments regarding the Trayvon Martin Case. He articulates exactly why African-Americans are racially offended by the non sympathetic view of this tragedy by the majority of White people

[natina]

Zimmerman Lies
Zimmerman Lies - Bail Revoked - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTTcFkRPYh8)

[natina]

Proof of Zimmerman's lies
Proof of Zimmerman's lies - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae9bv-ZgsDk)




Tom Laughlin gives incontrovertible proof that Zimmerman lies when he says Trayvon beat his head on the cement for one full minute and that it was self defense. Also, instead of being overcharged, Zimmerman was undercharged for the murder of Trayvon, and that the Judge must recuse himself for his incredible bias towards protecting Zimmerman.

[natina]

zimmerman in drag awaiting fudge packing& backpacking



http://www.bullz-eye.com/television/interviews/2009/images/andrew_zimmern/andrew_zimmern_06.jpg

[yosi]

it's all a result of: poeple's right to carry guns is more important than the poeple's right to live.

160 pages is all the proof you need to see how racist U.S. OF America is.

most of those who justify this murder ( and a murder IS a murder IS a murder ) , would probably blame the black guy if he was the one who killed an un-armed white guy.

just my 2 cents

[Token Williams-Black]

it's all a result of: poeple's right to carry guns is more important than the poeple's right to live.

160 pages is all the proof you need to see how racist U.S. OF America is.

most of those who justify this murder ( and a murder IS a murder IS a murder ) , would probably blame the black guy if he was the one who killed an un-armed white guy.

just my 2 cents
That's what many have been saying all along. Flip the script; different outcome. And no, I would NOT defend someone who obviously did something wrong.

[Silcc69]

You are correct, its no big deal.

For some reason i can't seem to find any of George doing the same thing though

I can find a hundred pictures of trans girls flicking people off so what's the big deal? He's doesn't have any drugs nor any weapons. Just right wing nuts reaching for the stars now.

[trish]

What's worse, flipping yourself off in a mirror, or carrying a concealed and loaded weapon in public. (Hint: one of them is against the law in some states).

[Token Williams-Black]

Every girl in this thread are a bunch of thugs...

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=11301

[buds]

What's worse, flipping yourself off in a mirror, or carrying a concealed and loaded weapon in public. (Hint: one of them is against the law in some states).

Seems like the carrying concealed was the better choice here. oh and by the way its legal in FL

[trish]

Actually carrying concealed turned out to be a pretty stupid choice and lethal too. It took the life of a seventeen year old kid and will probably ruin the life of the shooter. Without the gun everyone would've walked away alive.

[trish]

...carrying concealed...its legal in FLSo is flipping your finger. Where does that leave your argument?

[Silcc69]

Trayvon Martin Case: Donations For George Zimmerman Spike On Return To Jail

http://main.aol.com/2012/06/04/trayvon-martin-case-donat_n_1570863.html

[celticgrafix]

This stupid thread is still up? People need to move on already

[Token Williams-Black]

This stupid thread is still up? People need to move on already

It's trying to solidify itself for "Thread of the Year" against the Domino-charging-$1000 thread...
:whistle:

[natina]

martins

[giovanni_hotel]

Comparing Trayvon Martin's death to the political assassination of MLK is kinda over the top.lol

[trish]

Comparing Trayvon Martin's death to the political assassination of MLK is kinda over the top.lolAgreed...unhelpful even.

[broncofan]

This stupid thread is still up? People need to move on already
Thanks. I was just thinking that what this thread needed was the advice of someone posting a picture of their torso in a tank top telling everyone that a murder investigation is no longer relevant when it hasn't even gone to trial yet.

I find that usually people who want a topic to go away have an opinion they don't know how to express rather than being motivated by a desire to give objective advice. When people don't want to discuss it any longer, it will go away. Until then, don't open it unless you want to contribute.

[buds]

So is flipping your finger. Where does that leave your argument?


argument? I'm just posting facts.

the guy who flipped his finger is dead and the guy carrying the legal weapon is alive. Where does that leave your argument?

and don't get me started on the waste of internet space fuckedupbook is.

[trish]

the guy who flipped his finger is dead and the guy carrying the legal weapon is alive.And you find this relevant because....

[yodajazz]

argument? I'm just posting facts.

the guy who flipped his finger is dead and the guy carrying the legal weapon is alive. Where does that leave your argument?

and don't get me started on the waste of internet space fuckedupbook is.

The fact that carrying a weapon is legal, does not relieve a person from criminal repsonsibilty. That is the reason for the legal proceeding in this case. Zimmerman's defense hinges on his story, that his life was in danger. But I ask, why would Martin be specifically intent on killing him? And if Martin did intend to kill him, it could be because he felt his life was in danger by a man pursuing him. Somewhere in the scenario, Zimmerman's gun was introduced, that could have possibly raised the level of fear, Martin may have had, for his own safety. Carrying a weapon also places a greater responsiblity on a person, to have reasonable conduct.

The simplest way to deter crime is to talk to a person, or at least let them see that they could be identified. That way, a potential criminal knows that you may be able to identify them, should they commit a crime. Carrying a gun has not made Zimmerman's life better. Where is a motive for Martin to try and kill him? Martin was unarmed, and had no criminal record.

[natina]

trayvon martin did not flip his finger on face book .

that was a photo posted by the kkk

fake trayvon martin photo circulating,originated on a white supremacist website.



Over the weekend, a picture began circulating that claimed to show Martin in a less-than-flattering light: shirtless, sagging pants, and giving the finger to the camera.

The image quickly circulated across blogs and websites, with many claiming it as evidence that Martin was not as innocent as family and supporters claimed, as well as alleging media bias.

There is one problem to that claim: the picture is not Trayvon Martin.

Or at the very least, he's not the one who made worldwide headlines after his death. The Facebook page the picture came from appears to belong to a different Trayvon Martin, whereas the image is nowhere to be found on the slain teen's profile.

Street Wise Pundit, a liberal blog, claims the widely circulated "fake" Trayvon Martin picture originated on a white supremacist website.



http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/247194/352/Fake-Trayvon-Martin-picture-circulates-on-the-web





argument? I'm just posting facts.

the guy who flipped his finger is dead and the guy carrying the legal weapon is alive. Where does that leave your argument?

and don't get me started on the waste of internet space fuckedupbook is.

[celticgrafix]

Thanks. I was just thinking that what this thread needed was the advice of someone posting a picture of their torso in a tank top telling everyone that a murder investigation is no longer relevant when it hasn't even gone to trial yet.

I find that usually people who want a topic to go away have an opinion they don't know how to express rather than being motivated by a desire to give objective advice. When people don't want to discuss it any longer, it will go away. Until then, don't open it unless you want to contribute.

Cute and clever response cupcake, but did the time and effort you put into it really make you late for your Mensa meeting? I also do not need to see a picture of you to know how big of a badass you are. Go back in hide in the 'closet' so your wife doesn't catch you on here. Who sucks more dick? You or the bronco's.

[giovanni_hotel]

Cute and clever response cupcake, but did the time and effort you put into it really make you late for your Mensa meeting? I also do not need to see a picture of you to know how big of a badass you are. Go back in hide in the 'closet' so your wife doesn't catch you on here. Who sucks more dick? You or the bronco's.

I don't think calling someone a cocksucker is the most devastating insult you can hurl at someone on HA.:hide-1:

[natina]

George Zimmerman Called Women ‘Hoes’ and Mexicans ‘Thugs’ on his Myspace Page

George Zimmerman's legal team and family continue to insist that the 28-year-old who killed Trayvon Martin is not a racist. But an old Myspace account peppered with derogatory insults, uncovered by the Miami Herald and confirmed to be legitimate by Zimmerman's attorney, might pose some problems in court.

Zimmerman, aka "Joe G.", last updated the page, called "Only to be King Again" in 2005. On it, he referred to criminal cases ("2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!!"), called an ex girlfriend his "ex-hoe" (NICE), and had many lovely things to say about Mexicans:


dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!

Zimmerman's lawyers had ordered him to erase his social media presence — a Twitter account, website, and Myspace page under the username "datniggytb" were all taken down over the past few weeks — so we're not sure why this one is still up. (Seriously, still up as of right now, click here to see.) But hey, at least he says his "G Ma" is his role model? That's sure to go over well in court.

George Zimmerman's crude Myspace page from 2005 uncovered [Miami Herald]
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/v-fullstory/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

Image via Zimmerman's Myspace Page.
http://www.myspace.com/onlytobekingagain

http://jezebel.com/5907051/george-zimmerman-called-women-hoes-and-mexicans-thugs-on-his-myspace-page

[hard4janira]

Comparing Trayvon Martin's death to the political assassination of MLK is kinda over the top.lol

They are similiar in the sense that neither one of them would have made a good airplane mechanic.

[natina]

Florida man seeks damages after getting killer's number


Ex-convict given number used by George Zimmerman
* Says received rash of threatening calls
* Lawyer says his client's life was in danger


By Barbara Liston
ORLANDO, Fla., June 8 (Reuters) - A Florida man said on Friday he feared for his life after receiving a rash of threatening calls on a new cell phone he got with a number previously used by the killer of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin.
Lawyer Robert Trimble said he was seeking unspecified damages for his client, former convict Junior Alexander Guy, from cellphone provider T-Mobile for the flood of enraged calls and death threats he got over the phone.
Trimble and Guy said Guy purchased the phone -- the first he had ever owned -- after being released from serving more than 19 years in prison for drug trafficking.
They said the phone was activated by T-Mobile with the same number assigned until recently to George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer charged with murdering Trayvon Martin in the Florida town of Sanford in February, a case that garnered widespread media attention.
The number - 407-435-2400 - had been widely disseminated online in police 911 transcripts of a call Zimmerman made to report a suspicious teenager in his gated neighborhood on Feb. 26. Zimmerman has been the target of numerous death threats.
Guy said he feared for his life and Trimble said he was right to do so.
"His life absolutely was in danger," the lawyer said.
Guy, who lives in Orlando near Sanford, said he was unaware of the murder case that had grabbed the national media spotlight until he started getting bombarded with calls for Zimmerman.
"Could I be that bad lucky?" he said he later asked himself.
He said that at one point he moved in with his elderly mother because of the calls on the cell phone, which has since been deactivated.
T-Mobile spokesman Glen Zaccara said the firm followed all appropriate rules and procedures for how to deal with previously used phone numbers, including keeping the number out of circulation for 60 days.
Zimmerman's old number has since been taken permanently out of circulation, he said.
Guy was provided a credit for charges to his account and T-Mobile waived his early termination fee, T-Mobile, a unit of Deutsche Telekom, said in a statement. (Editing By Tom Brown and Dacid Brunnstrom)


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/08/usa-florida-shooting-phone-idUSL1E8H8DZN20120608

[natina]

Zimmerman on Drugs With Violent Side Effects When He Killed Trayvon [VIDEO]

While the mainstream media made sure to report with exclamations and gasps that marijuana was found in Trayvon Martin‘s system on the night that he was killed, many outlets failed to also report that the level was well below what medical studies show cause “performance impairment.” (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-autopsy-reveals-traces-of-thc.php) The same can not be said for George Zimmerman. According to the paramedic report, the vigilante neighborhood watch captain was on the prescription drug Temazepam, reports MSNBC.com (http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?chromedomain=usnews&lite).

Temazepam, also known as Restoril, is known to cause insomnia and anxiety, reports MSNBC (http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?chromedomain=usnews&lite). But there are more important side effects that were not mentioned.
Newsone exclusively reports:
According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000808/), the drug is also known to cause “aggressiveness” and “hallucinations,” among other problematic symptoms.

http://newsone.com/2016433/george-zimmerman-drugs/

[broncofan]

Cute and clever response cupcake, but did the time and effort you put into it really make you late for your Mensa meeting? I also do not need to see a picture of you to know how big of a badass you are. Go back in hide in the 'closet' so your wife doesn't catch you on here. Who sucks more dick? You or the bronco's.
So are you in here to express an opinion or just be flippant and say that nobody should express their view? BTW, the post I made took me a minute or two to write. The others, expressing opinions on the subject, up to five or ten minutes at the absolute most.

You don't have to be in Mensa to know that Broncos should not have an apostrophe unless you intend to make it possessive. Mensa is actually easy to qualify for, but accepting membership and bragging about it is proof that a person is insecure and hasn't accomplished much. The intellectual equivalent of posting a picture of an average looking torso.

BTW, if you don't have anything to write that's relevant, go elsewhere. This shouldn't be a thread where petulant tools talk about how they wish nobody would express an opinion. And yes, very mature of you to make a cocksucking insult in a transgender forum, you deeply confused child without any opinions worthy of articulating.

[broncofan]

I don't think calling someone a cocksucker is the most devastating insult you can hurl at someone on HA.:hide-1:
True but it's the most devastating insult he could think of. And a self-indictment to boot. :loser::)

[Ben]

Anyone see this from The Young Turks?
He claims he was: "... standing his ground."

Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YIcVGcq_A&feature=plcp)

[GrimFusion]

So are you in here to express an opinion or just be flippant and say that nobody should express their view? BTW, the post I made took me a minute or two to write. The others, expressing opinions on the subject, up to five or ten minutes at the absolute most.

You don't have to be in Mensa to know that Broncos should not have an apostrophe unless you intend to make it possessive. Mensa is actually easy to qualify for, but accepting membership and bragging about it is proof that a person is insecure and hasn't accomplished much. The intellectual equivalent of posting a picture of an average looking torso.

BTW, if you don't have anything to write that's relevant, go elsewhere. This shouldn't be a thread where petulant tools talk about how they wish nobody would express an opinion. And yes, very mature of you to make a cocksucking insult in a transgender forum, you deeply confused child without any opinions worthy of articulating.

Hey! Ain't nothin' wrong with an average lookin' torso, you dick!
Just jokes. I kid.

However, three paragraphs devoted to ridicule regarding spelling and grammar mistakes peppered with plenty of references to your own intelligence is only comical from a third-party perspective. Thanks for the laugh, but you might want to turn down the 'tool-knob' a little.

[broncofan]

Hey! Ain't nothin' wrong with an average lookin' torso, you dick!
Just jokes. I kid.

However, three paragraphs devoted to ridicule regarding spelling and grammar mistakes peppered with plenty of references to your own intelligence is only comical from a third-party perspective. Thanks for the laugh, but you might want to turn down the 'tool-knob' a little.
Half of what I wrote was in direct response to him, starting with the Mensa comment and including the time to post reference. There was no reference to spelling either.

Besides, if you read any of the posts, you would see that I have written a lot about the legal issues involved in the case. My first post was only to point out that when someone says they think somebody should just "drop it" about an important issue, it's because they have an opinion they are afraid to express. I would say the same about you, but I actually think it's based on the same insecurities as Mr. Torso who you're defending.

[broncofan]

Hey! Ain't nothin' wrong with an average lookin' torso, you dick!
Just jokes. I kid.

However, three paragraphs devoted to ridicule regarding spelling and grammar mistakes peppered with plenty of references to your own intelligence is only comical from a third-party perspective. Thanks for the laugh, but you might want to turn down the 'tool-knob' a little.
And yes, it may sound like I'm referencing my own intelligence to say Mensa is easy to qualify for. But it is. If you look at the test scores they use to accept members, it is unfathomable how it is used as a euphemism for genius. It simply is not that exclusive. If you had somebody take the test for you, you could probably become a member.

But I didn't bring it up, only how I thought its usage was wrong. Besides, you really are in here for the same reason as the other guy. He, like you, came in here to express an opinion completely collateral to all of the major issues. And you call me a tool? Unfckingbelievable.

[GrimFusion]

And yes, it may sound like I'm referencing my own intelligence to say Mensa is easy to qualify for. But it is. If you look at the test scores they use to accept members, it is unfathomable how it is used as a euphemism for genius. It simply is not that exclusive. If you had somebody take the test for you, you could probably become a member.

But I didn't bring it up, only how I thought its usage was wrong. Besides, you really are in here for the same reason as the other guy. He, like you, came in here to express an opinion completely collateral to all of the major issues. And you call me a tool? Unfckingbelievable.

Believe it, brotha! That's kinda what happens in forums, though. You've been around; you know that.

Meh... back on subject.
Kid gets killed by a man. They're two different colors. Totally racist, yes? Oh, the kid is a stoner. That changes everything. Discuss.

[broncofan]

Believe it, brotha! That's kinda what happens in forums, though. You've been around; you know that.

Meh... back on subject.
Kid gets killed by a man. They're two different colors. Totally racist, yes? Oh, the kid is a stoner. That changes everything. Discuss.
Sure, we have two polar reactions. But the racism might be subconscious. I have no doubt that Mr. Zimmerman believes race was not a factor, but when he starts thinking about it, the doubts start creeping in. Why was he following Trayvon around? Why did he shoot him? Trayvon had your build approximately (since we're talking about torsoes). The build you have after you lost the extra weight (nicely done). You or he are a mortal threat to George "the pistol packing badass of suburbia" Zimmerman?

Trayvon Martin's character will come up at trial, but only at Mr. Zimmerman's peril. I'll have you know that I received an A in Evidence (:),:),:) ) and so therefore you can trust what I say. Trust, but verify, as I've smoked a lot of hashish. If Zimmerman brings up the character of the deceased in order to make a self-defense argument, then his character for the same trait (violence), including reputation and opinion are fair game in the trial. I would say the marijuana leads to the opposite conclusion. If Martin were on trial for eating a plate full of brownies, it would be a relevant trait. Anyhow, the supposed post about him swinging at a busdriver could be brought into evidence to show a violent propensity, but when the defendant in a homicide case chooses to do this, his own character comes into issue. Does George Zimmerman have any skeletons in his closet? He'd better hope not.

[natina]

HE PULLED A " zimmmer" .a zimmerman.

Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YIcVGcq_A)



Anyone see this from The Young Turks?
He claims he was: "... standing his ground."

Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YIcVGcq_A&feature=plcp)

[giovanni_hotel]

LOL at how SYG laws are turning suburbia into a warzone. I can't tell you how many times I've been at parties and saw the host and a neighbor literally spitting at each other in an argument over the volume, but no one ever pulled a gun.

In the world I live in, the next step if your neighbor refuses to be compliant is to call the local POLICE to break things up.

This freak in the previous vid was so paranoid even though he had his piece that he threatened to shoot his neighbor for walking any closer just to talk to him about the noise.

NRA = FAIL.

SYG has turned into right to confront anyone with deadly force, if you feel like it.

[Token Williams-Black]

http://www.propublica.org/article/five-stand-your-ground-cases-you-should-know-about

[hard4janira]

Thought I'd throw a little gas on the fire. And black people have the gaul to act incredulous as why people stalk them when the come into thier neighborhoods.


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/556289_420920147930348_920717502_n.jpg

[GroobySteven]

Thought I'd throw a little gas on the fire. And black people have the gaul to act incredulous as why people stalk them when the come into thier neighborhoods.




I'd assume by the mugshots they were caught and convicted of murder? So why is it the same?
"Gaul" is France. Do you mean "gall" ?

[giovanni_hotel]

Thought I'd throw a little gas on the fire. And black people have the gaul to act incredulous as why people stalk them when the come into thier neighborhoods.


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/556289_420920147930348_920717502_n.jpg


As a civilian, when you stalk someone else on the suspicion of potential criminal conduct, you have to be RIGHT.
If you're wrong and you murder someone who's unarmed, you're going to catch hell, deservedly so.

THe funny thing is, if three unknown Black males were walking through Zimmerman's gated community, I think there's very little chance he would have left his car, even though he had a firearm.

Stop being racist, hard4janira.
No one at all is implying Black people don't commit crime or are always innocent victims. Shit is very real, unfortunately.

But the Zimmerman case is the wrong battle for people of your ilk to fight.

[hard4janira]

I'd assume by the mugshots they were caught and convicted of murder? So why is it the same?
"Gaul" is France. Do you mean "gall" ?

Thanks for correcting my spelling. I don't know if anybody has been convicted of anything yet but I presume they have been caught.

How is it the same? It's not really the same, nor did I imply that it was. Zimmerman (at best) could be conviced of manslaughter. I'm sure some or all of these three will be convicted of murder.

I am simply pointing out (and will continue to do so) the utter hypocrisy of the outrage directed towards Zimmerman when many other FAR MORE HEINUS crimes perpretrated by black people go virtually ignored by the media.

Let's get one thing straight: The firerod in the Zimmerman case is RACE, not whether or not 'Stand Your Ground' laws go to far. If this wasn't a half-white on black incident, nobody in the world would give a shit about it and 'Stand Your Ground' would continue unabated.

Because RACE is the predominant issue here I find it completely hypocritical why it is so casually IGNORED when blacks perpeterate crimes against other races (such as this one and the one against the two Asian USC students). I'm not saying the CRIME is ignored or goes unpunished, I'm saying the RACIAL aspect of it goes ignored. Why? Why do black people get a free pass regarding racism when they commit violent crimes against other races? Are they immune to such criticim? Who are these fucking pussies in the media who are too cowardly to call things as they are?

I'll tell you what I know: Black people commit a VASTLY DISPROPORTIONATE amount of crime given their % of the population. Many of them are violent, immoral, brutal and misogynistic. Because of this many people develop well founded generalizations about them. I wouldn't trust a black person I didn't know personally for shit and why should I? Why should anybody? Why shouldn't we stalk these creatures who invade our neighborhoods and besiege us with crime? Why should we trust any of them or give any of them the benefit of the doubt? Why? So we can end up like the Crab Shack waitress with her throat cut for her tip money? You do that Senchai, not me.

[hard4janira]

Stop being racist, hard4janira.
No one at all is implying Black people don't commit crime or are always innocent victims. Shit is very real, unfortunately.

But the Zimmerman case is the wrong battle for people of your ilk to fight.

People of my 'ilk'? Take your head out of the sand giovanni. People like you don't give a shit about justice or the letter of the law IMO. You view this whole thing like a boxing match that pitts a white guy vs. a black guy. Your allegience is with race not with the law. You're convinced yourself that you know all the facts and what the outcome should be, along with everybody else who has allowed Al Sharpton and the media to whip them up into a frenzy over this case. All you care about is 'Black Guy KO White Guy'.

[trish]

I am simply pointing out (and will continue to do so) the utter hypocrisy of the outrage directed towards Zimmerman when many other FAR MORE HEINUS crimes perpretrated by black people go virtually ignored by the media.
Wrong. The outrage is not toward Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been arrested on the spot and scheduled for trial this never would have hit the national news, never would have snowballed into the story that it became. The outrage is over the fact that justice was ignored. Thanks to the outrage, justice was only delayed. But the question remains, why the delay? What was at work on the night the cops and the legal system let Zimmerman walked away from a probable second degree homicide? Here is where the two factors that make this a media story come into play: racial profiling and SYG.

[GroobySteven]

Wrong. The outrage is not toward Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been arrested on the spot and scheduled for trial this never would have hit the national news, never would have snowballed into the story that it became. The outrage is over the fact that justice was ignored. Thanks to the outrage, justice was only delayed. But the question remains, why the delay? What was at work on the night the cops and the legal system let Zimmerman walked away from a probable second degree homicide? Here is where the two factors that make this a media story come into play: racial profiling and SYG.

Absolutely correct. It was that the media HADN'T reported on this that caused the outrage.

[GroobySteven]

I'll tell you what I know: Black people commit a VASTLY DISPROPORTIONATE amount of crime given their % of the population. Many of them are violent, immoral, brutal and misogynistic. Because of this many people develop well founded generalizations about them. I wouldn't trust a black person I didn't know personally for shit and why should I? Why should anybody? Why shouldn't we stalk these creatures who invade our neighborhoods and besiege us with crime? Why should we trust any of them or give any of them the benefit of the doubt? Why? So we can end up like the Crab Shack waitress with her throat cut for her tip money? You do that Senchai, not me.

Seriously??? Are you fucking serious - where do you live? What a horrible way to live a life, it must be very sad?

[hard4janira]

Absolutely correct. It was that the media HADN'T reported on this that caused the outrage.

Horseshit. If Zimmerman wasn't half-white, this would be a NON STORY. Most Americans support the stand your ground laws. The very fact that people are insisting that he be charged with murder without firsthand knowledge of the facts goes to show that the letter of the law is the LEAST important issue on the table. It's all about race.


Seriously??? Are you fucking serious - where do you live? What a horrible way to live a life, it must be very sad?

Dude, where do you live? Show me a story where a white guy shoots two unarmed black college kids sitting in a car. Show me a story where the last time three white youth's murdered a black waitress for her tip money. SHOW ME, I'M WAITING. Could you IMAGINE the media outrage if something like that happened just ONE TIME?

I'm not going to say black people don't suffer crime at the hands of other races but it is minescule compared crime perpetrated on other races by black people. To make up for this embarassment, black people love to come up with excuses such as socio-economic blah blah blah, glass ceilings blah blah blah, racist bankers blah blah blah, slavery blah blah blah. The inferiority complex and state of denial among blacks must be so immense that they are left with no other devices other than Al Sharpton dragging creatures like Tawana Brawley out from under a rock and inventing the fist supposed white-on-black rape in 100 years. And people STILL take that fucking moongbat seriously!!

The black on (other race) crime and violence in America fucking INEXCUSEABLE and INDEFENSIBLE, and out of fucking control, and I for one think that it's absurd for anybody to go around pretending that Zimmermans actions (while unwise) where anything but in the best interest of his community.

[GroobySteven]

Dude, where do you live? Show me a story where a white guy shoots two unarmed black college kids sitting in a car. Show me a story where the last time three white youth's murdered a black waitress for her tip money. SHOW ME, I'M WAITING. Could you IMAGINE the media outrage if something like that happened just ONE TIME?

I'm not going to say black people don't suffer crime at the hands of other races but it is minescule compared crime perpetrated on other races by black people. To make up for this embarassment, black people love to come up with excuses such as socio-economic blah blah blah, glass ceilings blah blah blah, racist bankers blah blah blah, slavery blah blah blah. The inferiority complex and state of denial among blacks must be so immense that they are left with no other devices other than Al Sharpton dragging creatures like Tawana Brawley out from under a rock and inventing the fist supposed white-on-black rape in 100 years. And people STILL take that fucking moongbat seriously!!

The black on (other race) crime and violence in America fucking INEXCUSEABLE and INDEFENSIBLE, and out of fucking control, and I for one think that it's absurd for anybody to go around pretending that Zimmermans actions (while unwise) where anything but in the best interest of his community.

So why do YOU think black people are as you portray them?

[hard4janira]

Why? Why? Why do black people execute two asian students sitting in a fucking car? Why do three adult black males murder a white woman for her paltry tip money? You fucking tell me why....

[GroobySteven]

Why? Why? Why do black people execute two asian students sitting in a fucking car? Why do three adult black males murder a white woman for her paltry tip money? You fucking tell me why....

I asked you? Because the rest of the world doesn't have these violent crimes?

[trish]

Most Americans support the stand your ground laws.Wrong again. Boilerplate SYG laws was designed by ALEC and slipped through conservative state legislatures before most Americans knew what was happening. Part of the outrage directed at the botched handling (by the police and legal system) of Martin's demise is directed at these SYG laws which have suddenly sprung up like ugly weeds all over America. You are among the very few who see any justice in what Zimmerman did or what the police didn't do on the night of Martin's murder.


Black people commit a VASTLY DISPROPORTIONATE amount of crime given their % of the population.First of all, let's see some reliable numbers here rather than capitalized adjectival phrases. Second, let's see some argument that this ratio is a proper measure. Very few black people embezzle seven digit sums by shuffling paper around on Wall Street. Does that mean African/Americans are more trustworthy handling your stocks and bonds then Caucasians? Among the very poor are African/Americans more likely than other ethnic groups to commit armed robbery? How about in Lexington, Kentucky?


If Zimmerman wasn't half-white, this would be a NON STORY.I presume you mean if Zimmerman was black. If so, true enough. But it doesn't undercut what I've been saying or what Seanchai has been saying. Since you missed it, I'll repeat it. Read it carefully.

The outrage is not toward Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been arrested on the spot and scheduled for trial this never would have hit the national news, never would have snowballed into the story that it became. The outrage is over the fact that justice was ignored. Thanks to the outrage, justice was only delayed. But the question remains, why the delay? What was at work on the night the cops and the legal system let Zimmerman walk away from a probable second degree homicide? Here is where the two factors that make this a media story come into play: racial profiling and SYG.

All three factors, 1) absence of an arrest and scheduled trail; 2) racial profiling and 3) SYG contributed to making this a national story.

Subtract (1). What do you get: Vigilante Shoots and Kills Unarmed African/American Seventeen Year Old Walking Through Gated Community Talking on Cell Phone and Eating Skittles. Perp Arrested and Trial Pending. Perp is Expected to Invoke SYG. That may be a fine headline for a local paper, indeed it's front page, but it's not going national.

Subtract (2). Vigilante Shoots and Kills Unarmed Seventeen Year Old Boy Walking Through Neighborhood Talking on His Cell Phone and Eating Skittles. Perp Gave Himself Up but Police Refused to Arrest Him Citing SYG. That's going viral.

Subtract (3). Vigilante Shoots and Kills Unarmed African/American Seventeen Year Old Walking Through Gated Community Talking on Cell Phone and Eating Skittles. Perp Gave Himself Up but Police Refused to Arrest Him. That's probably going viral too.

It's the failure of law enforcement to do their perceived job that is the key ingredient here, though the other ingredients fan the flames.

[trish]

Erratum:

If Zimmerman wasn't half-white, this would be a NON STORY.I presume you mean if Zimmerman was black. If so, true it wouldn't be as big a story as it is, though it would still be a national story.

[giovanni_hotel]

'Creatures'??

You mean like....animals???
Hard4janira, you're a stone cold racist. Your momma is probably one, as are most of your blood relations.

Using crimes committed by Blacks to somehow justify your racist attitudes is a dodge.
If Blacks NEVER committed violent crimes, you'd still be trying to legitimize your irrational hate of Black people.

Throughout the history of this country, hundreds of thousands more Blacks have been raped/murdered/killed by White hands than in the reverse, but you won't see me generalizing that there's something inherently defective and sociopathic in the genetic code of White people.

I swear, you bitch about Blacks and crime like you get mugged three times a week and murdered once every other Sunday.

BTW, show me a story where three Black guys get a White guy drunk, chain his ass to the back of 4x4 and drag him down an asphalt road until his head pops off?

You can't murder innocents because 'statistics' are on your side.
But hell you're probably one of those cats who would be in favor of actively aborting Black babies to lower future crime rates.

Pathetic man.

[fastingforlife]

Although I said this before, it bears repeating. Imagine you are sitting at home, the police call you to come down to the morgue, to identify your dead son. After doing this, you ask..."By the way, where is the guy who killed my son?" "Home having dinner with his wife sir."

This is not about Zimmerman, it is about the police not arresting him. If Trayvon Martin was white, Zimmerman would have been arrested. I would be willing to bet my life on it. I am no bleeding heart liberal, far from it...but come on, just ask your self what you would be thinking if you were trayvon's dad?

[broncofan]

Hard4Janira,
what you say isn't very clearly thought out. When crimes are committed against African-Americans, they are frequently bias crimes. It's not just the race of the victim that matters but also the motivation. The ethnic background of the victim or perpetrator only become relevant when someone is targetted as a victim because of their race. Therefore, if there is a murder and an African-American happens to be the perpetrator it is not the equivalent of an African-American being targetted for murder because of his/her race.

African-Americans have been the victims of lynchings, of the most heinous hate crimes you can imagine, including as Giovanni Hotel mentioned, the dragging of an African-American from a pickup truck. In the past, those who have lynched African-Americans and bragged about it publicly were either not tried or were tried and acquitted despite the admissions of reliable confessions. It is highly immoral to try to whitewash this past by pointing to crime rates by race or by creating an equivalence between those crimes that were committed on the basis of race hatred and those with other motivations.

Now, you may say what many other racists say when confronted with such an important distinction. "How is the law making somebody's thoughts a crime; I don't believe there should be such a thing as a hate crime". Well the legislature does think so and further it has always been within the province of the law to look for mitigating factors and aggravating factors and charge someone accordingly. Intent matters and has historically been used to determine the degree of murder and consequently the length of the sentence for committing that murder.

Further, self-defense, particularly that requiring deadly force is only justified by a deadly threat. The police should be vigilant anytime somebody has killed an unarmed man without a very good explanation as to how his life was in danger. Your opinion of crime statistics by race or the collective guilt of African-Americans based on the actions of other African-Americans has nothing to do with whether Mr. Zimmerman can make a valid self-defense claim. I don't believe he can. Stand your ground is a red herring because it does not justify an escalation in violence from the threat one was confronted with.

[hard4janira]

Wrong again. Boilerplate SYG laws was designed by ALEC and slipped through conservative state legislatures before most Americans knew what was happening. Part of the outrage directed at the botched handling (by the police and legal system) of Martin's demise is directed at these SYG laws which have suddenly sprung up like ugly weeds all over America. You are among the very few who see any justice in what Zimmerman did or what the police didn't do on the night of Martin's murder.

SYG is not what's at issue here - quit pretending that it is. If it were two white people or two black people or two hispanics or a hispanic and a black person... this story would be a blip on the radar. The ONLY reason this story has been blown out of proportion is because Zimmerman is half-white and Trayvon is black. Period. All you see is racism. If it were two black people and one was at home having dinner with his wife, you wouldn't give a fuck and I'd call you a liar if you said otherwise.


First of all, let's see some reliable numbers here rather than capitalized adjectival phrases.

Seriously? You know I'm fucking right. And I get screwed like anybody else at people shuffling funny money around on Wall Street (although your embezzlement clain is a bit silly).


I presume you mean if Zimmerman was black. If so, true enough.

Thanks for admitting that. I knew it.


The outrage is over the fact that justice was ignored. Thanks to the outrage, justice was only delayed. But the question remains, why the delay? What was at work on the night the cops and the legal system let Zimmerman walk away from a probable second degree homicide? Here is where the two factors that make this a media story come into play: racial profiling and SYG.

WHAT JUSTICE??? He hasn't even been tried yet. Oh wait.... you already know what happened right? You already know he deserves the death penalty because he commited a hate crime.... Please... spare me already.

And stop with your bullshit, made up, FAUX outrage at SYG. You didn't even know or care about SYG until this happenend. Your outrage is at Zimmerman because he is half-white. End of story. You want him to see the electric chair because you have already said that he commited a hate crime.


Subtract (1). What do you get: Vigilante Shoots and Kills Unarmed African/American Seventeen Year Old Walking Through Gated Community Talking on Cell Phone and Eating Skittles. Perp Arrested and Trial Pending. Perp is Expected to Invoke SYG. That may be a fine headline for a local paper, indeed it's front page, but it's not going national.

More idiocy on your part. It's hard to get lacerations on the back of your head and broken nose if you are taking pot-shots at people eating Skittles. Grow the fuck up.



It's the failure of law enforcement to do their perceived job that is the key ingredient here, though the other ingredients fan the flames.

The only reason you and all the people like yourself who are whipped up in a frenzy over this think that law enforcement failed to do thier job is becaue Zimmerman is half-white.

[broncofan]

And you see a lot of the same arguments popping up in this thread along the lines of "imagine if the races were reversed". Systemic racism against African-Americans by law enforcement officers and a history of lax prosecutions of those who killed African-Americans is relevant to how people view this. You can't expect everyone to wake up one morning and pretend not to be aware of this history or not see something that looks vaguely and disappointingly familiar.

[broncofan]

Hard,
You are right. The story is interesting to the media because you have an African-American youth who was killed by a half-white man, who was only given a short looking over by the police and who was not arrested. Most people find this very unusual given how difficult it is under the law to show you required deadly force. Many people also think that it looks like another African-American who has been targetted by law enforcement and then killed without legal justification.

Caucasians have not historically been victims of mob lynchings, were not restricted from testifying in court, have not had laws tailored in a specific way so that they could be harassed by law enforcement. Vagrancy laws were designed and used for the express purpose of harassing minorities.

This is a picture that everyone with a sense of history gets. You don't get it and we can all see why by the way you dehumanize African-Americans in your posts, referring to them as creatures and suggesting pre-emptive justice against them. Very sad indeed.

[hard4janira]

'Creatures'??

You mean like....animals???
Hard4janira, you're a stone cold racist. Your momma is probably one, as are most of your blood relations.

Yawn.. That word means nothing to me. It's some made up bullshit that is nothing but a political weapon used to discredit people.


Using crimes committed by Blacks to somehow justify your racist attitudes is a dodge. If Blacks NEVER committed violent crimes, you'd still be trying to legitimize your irrational hate of Black people.

And I'm sure that you and people of your ilk will forever use the history of white on black racism to justify your communites perpetual acts of violence and crime against other people. Just keep making excuses.


Throughout the history of this country, hundreds of thousands more Blacks have been raped/murdered/killed by White hands than in the reverse, but you won't see me generalizing that there's something inherently defective and sociopathic in the genetic code of White people.

I was waiting for this. This will FOREVER be your crutch. I get it - I understand it. I just won't accept it. Ever.


BTW, show me a story where three Black guys get a White guy drunk, chain his ass to the back of 4x4 and drag him down an asphalt road until his head pops off?

You don't want to play that game. You will lose badly. I'm not saying you won't find a few good examples, you will. But you will look like a goof if you want to match it up one for one.


You can't murder innocents because 'statistics' are on your side.But hell you're probably one of those cats who would be in favor of actively aborting Black babies to lower future crime rates.

I like it!

[broncofan]

Hard-on,
your posts, which are written in much the same style as the thoughtful expositions at stormfront and other racist sites, provide the exact reason why this case is very much about race. People such as yourself are so infected with racial bias that you're not even able to focus on whether George Zimmerman was guilty and instead you waste energy at once celebrating that an African-American is dead and reciting crime rates.

And there is a reason being called a racist means nothing to you, because you are one. It's not because the term has no meaning, but because you don't see it as a moral indictment.

[trish]

SYG is not what's at issue here - quit pretending that it is.Sorry, but it's part of the discussion. Quit pretending that it isn't.

WHAT JUSTICE??? He hasn't even been tried yet.And it was clear before the outrage that he wasn't going to be tried...THAT INJUSTICE. That injustice is the source of the outrage.


And stop with your bullshit, made up, FAUX outrage at SYG. You didn't even know or care about SYG until this happenend.You don't know me sir. If you just look at my history of posts over the last few years, you know that I've always been concerned about gun laws. In this quote you have revealed yourself to one who profiles, guesses at what people think and do and rarely if ever seek for the evidence. From here on out, stick to the topic, not what you think I think.


More idiocy on your part. Here you're being deliberately dense. I was not speaking at all to Zimmerman's quilt or innocence. I was speaking to whether the story would have gone national if the law enforcement and the justice system had arrested Zimmerman and set a trial date. Clearly not. Had the headline read...

...Vigilante Shoots and Kills Unarmed African/American Seventeen Year Old Walking Through Gated Community Talking on Cell Phone and Eating Skittles. Perp Arrested and Trial Pending. Perp is Expected to Invoke SYG...

...the nation as a whole would have yawned.

[natina]

CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html



June 13, 2012: MediaTakeOut.com is happy to announce that yesterday the wife of George Zimmerman was charged with perjury. The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 . Shellie Zimmerman was released on bond. Her husband, neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, 28, killed the Florida teenager Trayvon Martin on February 26.

Now it is alleged in court documents that Shellie Zimmerman used money transfers to hide the couple's finances as they fought for his release on bond. The arrest affidavit alleges that records show that just days before an April bond hearing for her husband, Shellie Zimmerman, 25, transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's account to hers.

It also alleges that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS: Trayvon's Killer Zimmerman Is ACCUSED OF Assaulting A BLACK POLICE OFFICER!!! (And He Served NO TIME In Jail For It)

March 27, 2012: MediaTakeOutcom learned today that George Zimmerman, the man who MURDERED Trayvon Martin, was charged in 2005 with ASSAULTING a police officer. The mainstream media is GLOSSING OVER this fact, claiming that it was some sort ofmisunderstanding.

Well MediaTakeOut.com spoke with AN INFORMANT, inside the Orlando police department, who tell us that the officer who ZIMMERMAN assaulted - was AFRICAN AMERICAN.

This dude is an ANIMAL. He really believes that he can do ANYTHING to Black people, whether they're OFFICERS, children, armed, or UNARMED.

He really needs to be off the streets!!

http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/55039/breaking-news-trayvon-s-killer-zimmerman-is-accused-of-assaulting-a-black-police-officer-and-he-served-no-time-in-jail-for-it.html

[natina]

NEW! zimmerman evidence released

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/15/exp-eb-new-evidence-george-zimmerman.cnn

[giovanni_hotel]

It's looking more and more like he could actually be convicted of 2nd degree murder.

[natina]

Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping

News reports are suggesting that later today the authorities in Florida will announce charges against Trayvon Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman. Coverage of this story was handled by Fox News in a manner that is revealing and offensive – and wholly unique to Fox News:




This is a journalistic lynching. And note, this is not Fox Nation. It is the mothership, Fox News. The editors at this alleged “news” network are demonstrating their overt hostility to both African-Americans and journalistic ethics. If this picture doesn’t finally establish the overarching prejudice of Fox, it’s hard to know what will. Their bias is so clearly being exercised with a zealotry that the Klan would shrink from. How do they get away with this?
[Update] Fox News changed their graphic.

This is a more impartial photo that does not disparage the victim (although it still is not as overtly cheerful as Zimmerman’s pic). You think they got a few complaints about the previous photo? They must have had a reason for changing it.

[Addendum] A couple of commenters have asserted (without proof) that the lighter picture of Trayvon was the one that was Photoshopped. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they are right and that the picture Fox used was not altered (at least by Fox). That does not change the fact that Fox made an editorial decision to use that picture. They had numerous pictures from which to choose of both Trayvon and Zimmerman, and they chose the most negative picture of Trayvon which they paired with the most positive picture of Zimmerman. That was not an accident. It was the result of deliberate editorial judgment. And it tells us everything we need to know about Fox’s editors.
For more on the subject of media and race, check out the excellent book by Democracy Now’s Juan Gonzalez:

There has also been some discussion as to whether making Trayvon look darker was inherently racist. Two points: 1) Making anyone look darker has the effect of making them look more sinister. And making the subject of a photo look more sinister, regardless of race, is blatant editorial bias. 2) Darker skinned African-Americans are not viewed more negatively by fair-minded people who are free of prejudice, but they are viewed more negatively by people predisposed to discriminate on the basis of race – i.e. Fox News viewers. Fox is playing to their audience and they know who they are. Studies show (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=2231) that the African-American segment of viewers of Fox News in primetime is only 1.38%. That compares to 19.3% for MSNBC, and 20.7% for CNN, numbers that are much closer to the 14% of African-Americans in the population at large. Or, as the Simpsons put it…

Finally, The question of whether or not George Zimmerman is racist, while important, is secondary here. The real problem is the racism exhibited by the local law enforcement authorities who simply accepted Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense without making an arrest and conducting a proper investigation. Exacerbating that is the overt racism of the right-wing press and their followers. The primary focus going forward should, of course, be the pursuit of justice and the suffering of the victims family. After that the focus should fall on the police and the media as this affair winds its way through the courts. But we should be grateful that concerned citizens spoke out and hit the streets to protest this injustice or there would be no court case at all.
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851

http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/foxnews-trayvon-graphic.jpg



http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/foxnews-trayvon-graphic-2.jpg


http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/simpsons-fox-racist.jpg

[buttslinger]

It's looking more and more like he could actually be convicted of 2nd degree murder.

Maybe Fox Views will riot and set Floyd's barber shop on fire.....

[natina]

EXClUDE HERE FROM THE jury pool PLEASE

Barbara Espinosa calls Obama a monkey and says: I voted for the white guy

OR GOP RACIST?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=y6fBQTUvdXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y6fBQTUvdXU)

[natina]

the topic now is zimmerman wife being charged with a FELONY & ZIMMERMANS CONFESSION
to prosecuters when he did not keep in touch with his 1st attorney.


ZIMMERMAN ALSO SAID SOME OTHER INCREMINATING THINGS ON THE PHONE WITH HIS WIFE WHILE HE WAS IN JAIL




CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html



June 13, 2012: MediaTakeOut.com is happy to announce that yesterday the wife of George Zimmerman was charged with perjury. The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 . Shellie Zimmerman was released on bond. Her husband, neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, 28, killed the Florida teenager Trayvon Martin on February 26.

Now it is alleged in court documents that Shellie Zimmerman used money transfers to hide the couple's finances as they fought for his release on bond. The arrest affidavit alleges that records show that just days before an April bond hearing for her husband, Shellie Zimmerman, 25, transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's account to hers.

It also alleges that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html


BREAKING NEWS: Trayvon's Killer Zimmerman Is ACCUSED OF Assaulting A BLACK POLICE OFFICER!!! (And He Served NO TIME In Jail For It)

March 27, 2012: MediaTakeOutcom learned today that George Zimmerman, the man who MURDERED Trayvon Martin, was charged in 2005 with ASSAULTING a police officer. The mainstream media is GLOSSING OVER this fact, claiming that it was some sort ofmisunderstanding.

Well MediaTakeOut.com spoke with AN INFORMANT, inside the Orlando police department, who tell us that the officer who ZIMMERMAN assaulted - was AFRICAN AMERICAN.

This dude is an ANIMAL. He really believes that he can do ANYTHING to Black people, whether they're OFFICERS, children, armed, or UNARMED.

He really needs to be off the streets!!

http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/55039/breaking-news-trayvon-s-killer-zimmerman-is-accused-of-assaulting-a-black-police-officer-and-he-served-no-time-in-jail-for-it.html


NEW! zimmerman evidence released

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/15/exp-eb-new-evidence-george-zimmerman.cnn

[natina]

Zimmerman's wife arrested on perjury charge (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/zimmermans-wife-arrested-on-perjury-charge/)

The wife of a Florida man charged with fatally shooting an unarmed teen in February has been arrested on a perjury charge, according to a Florida state attorney's office.
The charge relates to testimony that Shellie Zimmerman (pictured) gave during a bail hearing for her husband, George Zimmerman. Prosecutors contend that Shellie Zimmerman falsely told the court that she and her husband were indigent.
Shellie Zimmerman, 25, was arrested Tuesday, according to Jackie Barnard, spokeswoman for the state attorney's office in the state's Fourth Judicial Circuit. She was released after posting $1,000 bail, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said.
George Zimmerman, 28, is a neighborhood watch volunteer charged with murder in connection with the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17, in a Sanford, Florida, neighborhood. George Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense and has pleaded not guilty.
A Florida judge revoked his bail June 1 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html) after agreeing with prosecutors that he had misrepresented how much money he had. He is expected to ask for a new bail hearing (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html).

FULL STORY (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html)

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/zimmermans-wife-arrested-on-perjury-charge




http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120612081736-shellie-zimmerman-arrested-story-top.jpg

[natina]

Prosecutors: Jail phone transcripts show Zimmerman, wife talking finances in code


CNN) -- Despite telling the court they were indigent, George Zimmerman and his wife discussed (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/20/who-shellie-zimmerman-shooters-wife-talks-public-first-time-hearing) -- in code, according to prosecutors -- money raised online to help in his defense on second-degree murder charges, jailhouse phone calls released Monday show.
Prosecutors had claimed the Zimmermans lied about their financial means before a Florida judge set his bond, which the suspect then posted to get out of jail. Zimmerman, accused in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, is now back behind bars after the judge revoked his bail, citing the misrepresentations.
Six calls made public Monday, out of about 151 total that Zimmerman made while incarcerated, appear to back up the prosecutor's assertions.

At her husband's April 20 bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman testified she didn't know how much had been raised through the website (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html) her husband had set up before charges being filed.
And when asked whether the couple had money available to assist in his defense, she replied, "Um, not -- not that I'm aware of."
In one jailhouse phone conversation, Zimmerman asks his wife, "In my account, do I have at least $100?" She answers no, then tells him he has more like "$8, $8.60."
"So total everything, how much are we looking at?" Zimmerman asks his wife.
"Like $155," she responds.
Prosecutors claim the husband and wife were speaking in a type of code about their available funds, an assertion Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara says the defense has "never contested."
"There's no question that they were talking in this sort of simplistic kind of code, where they were talking about $155 when, without question, they were talking about $155,000," O'Mara told CNN's Piers Morgan on Monday night.
In another call, Zimmerman asks his wife to "pay off all the bills," including Sam's Club and American Express bills, prosecutors said.
The couple also discusses how much money can be accessed and what to do with it, including transferring funds that were raised online for his defense to accounts belonging to Zimmerman's sister and wife, prosecutors state in a probable cause affidavit.
Records released Monday show that tens of thousands of dollars were transferred out of a bank account. Prosecutors allege a total of $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's account from April 16 and 17, and that Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $74,000 from her husband's account to her account between April 16 and April 19.
After George Zimmerman was released on bond this spring, his wife transferred more than $85,500 from her account back to his account, according to the affidavit.

Prosecutors allege the couple actually had about $135,000 of donations at their disposal when they both told the court, under oath, they were indigent.
O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, later said his client ended up netting a total of $204,000 via PayPal accounts -- about $150,000 of which is now in an independently managed trust after $30,000 was used to pay for "life in hiding" and $20,000 has been kept liquid.
On June 1, Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. agreed with the prosecution that the Zimmermans were dishonest about their financial status and, after revoking George Zimmerman's bond, ordered that he return to jail. He remains behind bars and has a second bond hearing set for June 29.
On June 12, Shellie Zimmerman was arrested on a perjury charge (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html), accused of lying at her husband's bond hearing about the couple's finances. She was released later that day after meeting the conditions of a $1,000 bond, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said.
The defense team on Monday filed a motion asking a judge to reconsider the release of a witness statement and to clarify a previous ruling on the release of additional jail phone calls. Both issues will be addressed during next week's bond hearing.
It all ties into the larger case against Zimmerman, who prosecutors say ignored a police dispatcher's instruction and pursued Martin as he was walking in a Sanford, Florida, gated community last winter and shot the unarmed teenager. The 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, meanwhile, has insisted he shot Martin in self-defense.
Independent attorneys told HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell the jailhouse recordings should be relevant in the case -- both as the judge weighs how high to set Zimmerman's bail and, once the trial begins, potentially affecting jurors' assessment as to whether his account of what happened February 26 can be trusted. While investigators talked to several neighbors and others, no one saw the shooting directly except for Zimmerman and the now-deceased Martin.
"His credibility is everything. Why would he risk it on something that is so trivial as this?" Georgia-based lawyer Pilar Prinz said of the Zimmermans' jailhouse discussions about their money. " I can't understand it."
O'Mara acknowledged the Zimmermans inflicted a "great blow to their credibility," making it clear the two had available funds and were not honest about it -- something that might prompt Judge Lester to order the defendant to stay in jail until the trial because he feels "he can no longer trust him."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/18/justice/florida-zimmerman-calls/index.html?iref=obnetwork

[natina]

Delete

[fastingforlife]

It is probably not a good idea to render a verdict without a hearing of facts, but I believe Zimmerman will be unable to hide behind "stand your ground". He is guilty, and will serve time for his crime.

In all due respect to Al Sharpton and his ilk, I do not accept Zimmerman as a white man. I will not show up to claim him as such. This is just another minority on minority crime. And, there is an epidemic of it nationwide. What interests me, is the racist, no care attitude of the cops, on the night of the murder. Otherwise, it is just another day in paradise.

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS video!;AS NEW EVIDENCE ROLLS IN Sanford police chief fired in wake of Trayvon Martin case


(CNN) -- Sanford, Florida, Police Chief Bill Lee, who drew criticism for his department's actions in the Trayvon Martin case, was fired Wednesday.
"After much thoughtful discussion and deep consideration for the issues facing the city of Sanford, I have determined the police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community," City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release.
"We need to move forward with a police chief that all the citizens of Sanford can support. I have come to this decision in light of the escalating divisiveness that has taken hold of the city."
Lee will receive a three-month severance and a week's salary in addition to any earned time off.
As a search for Lee's replacement is carried out, interim Chief Richard W. Myers will remain on the job.



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/justice/florida-martin-case-police-chief/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

[fastingforlife]

BREAKING NEWS video!;AS NEW EVIDENCE ROLLS IN Sanford police chief fired in wake of Trayvon Martin case



(CNN) -- Sanford, Florida, Police Chief Bill Lee, who drew criticism for his department's actions in the Trayvon Martin case, was fired Wednesday.
"After much thoughtful discussion and deep consideration for the issues facing the city of Sanford, I have determined the police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community," City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release.
"We need to move forward with a police chief that all the citizens of Sanford can support. I have come to this decision in light of the escalating divisiveness that has taken hold of the city."
Lee will receive a three-month severance and a week's salary in addition to any earned time off.
As a search for Lee's replacement is carried out, interim Chief Richard W. Myers will remain on the job.



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/justice/florida-martin-case-police-chief/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

well, that was easy.

[Token Williams-Black]

Hmm...on most Wanted posters, Hispanics are classified as white (with race not nationality)...making this technically a white-on-black incident...Just sayin'...

http://www.editinternational.com/images/gallery/05-wanted_low.jpg

[fastingforlife]

Hispanics don't want to be considered white. They are offended when they are mistaken for white, so I happily exclude them. Zimmerman and Obama have the same amount of white blood in their veins, and I don't accept Obama either as a white man.

[runningdownthatdream]

Hispanics don't want to be considered white. They are offended when they are mistaken for white, so I happily exclude them. Zimmerman and Obama have the same amount of white blood in their veins, and I don't accept Obama either as a white man.

YOU don't accept them as white? And who appointed you the arbiter of whitedom? (for reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arbiter)

[robertlouis]

Hispanics don't want to be considered white. They are offended when they are mistaken for white, so I happily exclude them. Zimmerman and Obama have the same amount of white blood in their veins, and I don't accept Obama either as a white man.

Bollocks. Ask a Spaniard and get your face slapped.

[fastingforlife]

Bollocks. Ask a Spaniard and get your face slapped.

I am not referring to people from spain, yes they are white.

[fastingforlife]

Refer to a Puerto Rican as white, male or female, and be prepared to pick up your teeth with broken fingers.

[robertlouis]

I am not referring to people from spain, yes they are white.

:confused::confused::confused: Yet the Spanish are a centuries old mix of European, Arabic and Moorish, no less mixed than the people you don't see as white.

Must be a Merkin thing. I'm totally confused.

[runningdownthatdream]

:confused::confused::confused: Yet the Spanish are a centuries old mix of European, Arabic and Moorish, no less mixed than the people you don't see as white.

Must be a Merkin thing. I'm totally confused.

Oh but Robert, Spain is in Europe and don't you know that in Europe EVERYONE is white!?!?!

[fastingforlife]

:confused::confused::confused: Yet the Spanish are a centuries old mix of European, Arabic and Moorish, no less mixed than the people you don't see as white.

Must be a Merkin thing. I'm totally confused.

I don't believe in the concept of race. It is another device, like religion to pit man against man. But as long as the liberals want to push race bating, I will continue to play along re-writing the rules as I go, to ridicule this crap. As a white man, I am proud to say that I have never referred to a black person as an african-american, I have never gotten sucked into that BS, as there is no such thing as a hyphenated person. The fact that black people want to play this game of being watered down nationals amazes me. First it was negroes, then colored, then black, then I got off the bus.....and they continued to redefine themselves. Well good for them.

[Token Williams-Black]

I don't believe in the concept of race. It is another device, like religion to pit man against man. But as long as the liberals want to push race bating, I will continue to play along re-writing the rules as I go, to ridicule this crap. As a white man, I am proud to say that I have never referred to a black person as an african-american, I have never gotten sucked into that BS, as there is no such thing as a hyphenated person. The fact that black people want to play this game of being watered down nationals amazes me. First it was negroes, then colored, then black, then I got off the bus.....and they continued to redefine themselves. Well good for them.

Blacks didn't have the chance to make that choice, remember?

And if we're all Americans, shouldn't we be treated equally? I mean, that's what the Constitution says, doesn't it?

[fastingforlife]

YOU don't accept them as white? And who appointed you the arbiter of whitedom? (for reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arbiter)

If the Hispanic community makes a formal petition to the UN to be considered white, then I might consider including therm.

[runningdownthatdream]

I don't believe in the concept of race. It is another device, like religion to pit man against man. But as long as the liberals want to push race bating, I will continue to play along re-writing the rules as I go, to ridicule this crap. As a white man, I am proud to say that I have never referred to a black person as an african-american, I have never gotten sucked into that BS, as there is no such thing as a hyphenated person. The fact that black people want to play this game of being watered down nationals amazes me. First it was negroes, then colored, then black, then I got off the bus.....and they continued to redefine themselves. Well good for them.

If you don't believe in the concept of race why are you pronouncing yourself 'white' and bandying about terms like Hispanic and making pronouncements about who you consider to be white or non-white? You seem confused......

[fastingforlife]

WE didn't make that choice, remember?

Well, although I do not accept african-american as a label, I understand the roots behind it. Normally, a foreigner hypenhates for the first generation. Say Irish-american, then their offspring is referred to (if they wish) as americans of irish decent. For the decendents of slaves, who lack a national identity, they are forever in limbo, doomed to be hyphenated, like a ghost searching for their lost love. I choose not to accept black people as citizens held hostage to their past, so I will not play along. What really galls me is the disingenious of a black man who did not originate from the slave trade, who chooses such a monicker. For example, Obama, who can refer to himself as either a Kenyan American or American of Kenyan descent. He only refers to himself as an african american fraudulently claiming slave heritage that he is not qualified to claim.

[fastingforlife]

If you don't believe in the concept of race why are you pronouncing yourself 'white' and bandying about terms like Hispanic and making pronouncements about who you consider to be white or non-white? You seem confused......

Far from it, this thread only exists because of racism, merely playing along with the liberal bullshit.

[natina]

Tim Wise on the Creation of Whiteness (Clip)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip



Tim Wise on White Privilege (Teaser)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-white-privilege-teaser





Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative


TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)

Tim Wise social control
Tim Wise social control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXO-_Hoyhk&NR=1)

The Underprivileged White Male
The Underprivileged White Male - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jaH_hmnrPU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[fastingforlife]

Everytime I hear a black person be referred to, or refer to himself as an african american, I wince. What really is being said is, "hey, look at me, my forbears were slaves, please give me the deference and respect I deserve".

I say, fuck you, and the boat your forbears sailed in on. Get over it asshole, and man up.

[trish]

Yeah, fuck that slave boat. Fuck all those fucking slave boats. While you're at fuck the slavers too. African-Americans, Korean-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans...we're here, we're free and we call ourselves as we please. Get over it twit.

[fastingforlife]

Yeah, fuck that slave boat. Fuck all those fucking slave boats. While you're at fuck the slavers too. African-Americans, Korean-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans...we're here, we're free and we call ourselves as we please. Get over it twit.

I have been over it a long time, never resorting to hyphenated mealy mouth BS. And, stop commenting on my comments. I have strictly forbidden you. Remember?

[robertlouis]

Oh but Robert, Spain is in Europe and don't you know that in Europe EVERYONE is white!?!?!

Heartening sight in Kettering the other day, a typical Midlands town: a table with four teenagers, one black, one Asian (that means from the sub-continent in UK terms) one Chinese, one white, all having a ball and clearly good friends. A lot of kids here seem oblivious of colour; the older generation could learn a lot from them. They're much the same with gays. It gives you hope for the future.

[trish]

Not a comment, just enthusiastic agreement, fuck those slave boats.

[fastingforlife]

Yeah, fuck that slave boat. Fuck all those fucking slave boats. While you're at fuck the slavers too. African-Americans, Korean-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans...we're here, we're free and we call ourselves as we please. Get over it twit.

Irish, Korean, Italian, etc.....can only hyphenate for one generation. You are not allowed to refer to yourself as italian-american from the second generation on. They would be American of italian descent. these are the rules. And, again no more comments from the peanut gallery.

[trish]

That last was a reply, not a comment. Bummer, when you make rules and people don't follow them. Language usage is like that.

[robertlouis]

Irish, Korean, Italian, etc.....can only hyphenate for one generation. You are not allowed to refer to yourself as italian-american from the second generation on. They would be American of italian descent. these are the rules. And, again no more comments from the peanut gallery.

Whose rules are they and who exactly made them?

[fastingforlife]

Whose rules are they and who exactly made them?

Well, I have known this for 50 years. To me it is common knowledge. There is probably a book somewhere that details this, but again, this is the way it works, at least in the States.

[trish]

Not any more, that was like, 50 years ago.

[fastingforlife]

Whose rules are they and who exactly made them?

As I noted previously, black people, with origins from the slave trade, have been excluded from conforming. However, I am not onboard with the exclusion, that is why I have never referred to a black person as an african-american. I will not be cowered by the dishonest left.

[trish]

I will not be cowered by the dishonest left. Just the crazed and loopy right. I'm an African/Korean/American. I don't like hyphens either.

[robertlouis]

As I noted previously, black people, with origins from the slave trade, have been excluded from conforming. However, I am not onboard with the exclusion, that is why I have never referred to a black person as an african-american. I will not be cowered by the dishonest left.

And the honest left? :dancing:

[hard4janira]

:dancing:
Just the crazed and loopy right. I'm an African/Korean/American. I don't like hyphens either.

Really? You have Korean citizenship? African citizenship? Lol....are you talking about race or Nationality? Not the same thing....

[trish]

See what I mean by "crazed and loopy?"

[hard4janira]

Heartening sight in Kettering the other day, a typical Midlands town: a table with four teenagers, one black, one Asian (that means from the sub-continent in UK terms) one Chinese, one white, all having a ball and clearly good friends. A lot of kids here seem oblivious of colour; the older generation could learn a lot from them. They're much the same with gays. It gives you hope for the future.

I just threw up in my mouth a little. I bet you have mandatory drum circle time every day huh?

Let me tell you about these two asian grad students at USC who were executed while sitting in their car by a ghetto lizzard for no reason whatsoever. Im glad somebody has hope for the future because i sure dont

[Token Williams-Black]

Let me tell you about these two asian grad students at USC who were executed while sitting in their car by a ghetto lizzard for no reason whatsoever. Im glad somebody has hope for the future because i sure dont
With many people having that same attitude, I see no hope for the future either.

[robertlouis]

I just threw up in my mouth a little. I bet you have mandatory drum circle time every day huh?

Let me tell you about these two asian grad students at USC who were executed while sitting in their car by a ghetto lizzard for no reason whatsoever. Im glad somebody has hope for the future because i sure dont


I live in the UK, you twat. Life is what you make it. You obviously don't make enough of yours.

[trish]

What do you mean by Asian? Nationality or eye orientation? They're different you know. And what do you mean by Ghetto Lizzard? Did he have Lizard citizenship? Perhaps he had an ancestor on his father's side who lived in Ghetto and one on his mother's side that lived in Lizzard. That would explain it. But don't let us interrupt, you were just about to tell us about these two asian grad students who were executed by a ghetto lizzard. So go ahead, tell us about it. What happened?

[hard4janira]

I live in the UK, you twat. Life is what you make it. You obviously don't make enough of yours.

Tell me oh wise one, what could i learn from these four kids? You probably didn't watch them long enough. If you had, I guarantee you the black kid would have stolen something from one of the other kids. See, with a little patience and observation even you will lose faith.

[GrimFusion]

Blacks didn't have the chance to make that choice, remember?

And if we're all Americans, shouldn't we be treated equally? I mean, that's what the Constitution says, doesn't it?

Sure, but times change. Maybe blacks in the 50s, 60s, and 70s didn't have that choice and had to simply accept the label society wanted to hand them, but that hasn't been true since then. For christs sake, we've had a black president for the last four years. If black people wanted to gather together and get shit changed, why hasn't it happened? Fox news. lol.

Of course all Americans *should* be treated equally. Save for rich people who pay fewer taxes... and the impoverish who need social programs... and the handicapped... and "African-Americans", Native-Americans... and the Jews. You can't forget about them. I guess I should throw gay people into that mix, too.

The same people who want to preach equality usually fall into one of those "special categories" and if true equality were to occur, they'd be the first to complain. Until then, you'll still have a few nutjobs well within their right to free speech spew straight bigotry and ignorance and the rest of society just trying their damnedest to ignore the bull shit. Enjoy your college fund.

[trish]

Tell me oh wise one, what could i learn from these four kids? You probably didn't watch them long enough. If you had, I guarantee you the black kid would have stolen something from one of the other kids.And that's why 99% of the 99% are black kids.

[hard4janira]

What do you mean by Asian? Nationality or eye orientation? They're different you know. And what do you mean by Ghetto Lizzard? Did he have Lizard citizenship? Perhaps he had an ancestor on his father's side who lived in Ghetto and one on his mother's side that lived in Lizzard. That would explain it. But don't let us interrupt, you were just about to tell us about these two asian grad students who were executed by a ghetto lizzard. So go ahead, tell us about it. What happened?

What do i meam by asian? I mean you do my dry cleaning bitch. You could possibly be doing my nails (if i get pdeicures, which i do not) , however if you are Korean you are most likely ruining my shirts

[robertlouis]

Tell me oh wise one, what could i learn from these four kids? You probably didn't watch them long enough. If you had, I guarantee you the black kid would have stolen something from one of the other kids. See, with a little patience and observation even you will lose faith.

How dare you. You ignorant racist fuckwit. So it all comes down to the colour of the skin, does it? Crawl back under your 19th century stone.

Yes, there are places in the inner cities where gangs roam and they're not safe. Sometimes black, sometimes white. So what?

[trish]

What do i meam by asian? I mean you do my dry cleaning bitch. You could possibly be doing my nails (if i get pdeicures, which i do not) , however if you are Korean you are most likely ruining my shirtsSee what I mean by "crazed and loopy?" WTF is a pdeicure and if you don't get them how could I possibly give one to you??

[GrimFusion]

What do i meam by asian? I mean you do my dry cleaning bitch. You could possibly be doing my nails (if i get pdeicures, which i do not) , however if you are Korean you are most likely ruining my shirts

Ha... kinda like how you're the dumb ass pumping my gas, bagging my groceries, and serving me fries? You're a passive-aggressive douche bag who takes advantage of anonymity on the internet to serve baiting and pointless text-beatdowns as an outlet to your aggression. That's really sad. Probably about as sad as your life in general, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[hard4janira]

[QUOTE=robertlouis;1160070]How dare you. You ignorant racist fuckwit.
[quote]

Umm... Is this the part where you slap me with your silk gloves? Robert, I daresay we wont be sharing cucumber sandwiches any time soon. Harumph!

[GrimFusion]

[QUOTE=robertlouis;1160070]How dare you. You ignorant racist fuckwit.
[quote]

Umm... Is this the part where you slap me with your silk gloves? Robert, I daresay we wont be sharing cucumber sandwiches any time soon. Harumph!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/grimfusion/fourm%20pics/FG5NG67YV2J5W7IAKL3J64JZTSA6PJJ5.png

[Token Williams-Black]

Times HAVE changed...but the bullshit remains the same. THAT will NEVER change.

[hard4janira]

Ha... kinda like how you're the dumb ass pumping my gas, bagging my groceries, and serving me fries? You're a passive-aggressive douche bag who takes advantage of anonymity on the internet to serve baiting and pointless text-beatdowns as an outlet to your aggression. That's really sad. Probably about as sad as your life in general, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Now there's a novel idea! Pumping gas and bagging groceries. You meant it as an insult but i see no shame in those jobs at all. I've bagged groceries before and worked at a pizza joint too. Proud to say I've done it. I wish more people were like me, willing to do honest work for honest pay, even if the income is modest at first. We all have to start somewhere. I'm a good role model if I do say so myself.

[GrimFusion]

Times HAVE changed...but the bullshit remains the same. THAT will NEVER change.

You make it sound like that ideal is something worth defending. I agree, though. So long as there are stupid people and smart people aren't doing enough to educate dumb asses, it won't change. That's why I support the armed-intelligence proposal. Give smart people guns and let them sort everything out. I jest. I don't know too many unintelligent serial killers, so that might be a bad idea.

[robertlouis]

[QUOTE=robertlouis;1160070]How dare you. You ignorant racist fuckwit.
[quote]

Umm... Is this the part where you slap me with your silk gloves? Robert, I daresay we wont be sharing cucumber sandwiches any time soon. Harumph!

Winding each other up on the internet has its entertainment value, up to a point. Let's just agree that we have different viewpoints on human nature and leave it at that. Done?

[hard4janira]

[quote=hard4janira;1160073][QUOTE=robertlouis;1160070]How dare you. You ignorant racist fuckwit.


Winding each other up on the internet has its entertainment value, up to a point. Let's just agree that we have different viewpoints on human nature and leave it at that. Done?


Fair enough. I'm just trying to be a dick tonight anyways. I'm in the mood. Nevertheless, I'll never stop exsposing the sheer hypocrisy of those who only see racism and hate crimes as white on black. I've lived in the deep south for over 30 years and i can PROMISE you that i have never seen more bitter, hate filled, resentful, and downright racist people than black people and they do not care who they take this out on, innocent or not.

[robertlouis]

[quote=robertlouis;1160080][quote=hard4janira;1160073]


Fair enough. I'm just trying to be a dick tonight anyways. I'm in the mood. Nevertheless, I'll never stop exsposing the sheer hypocrisy of those who only see racism and hate crimes as white on black. I've lived in the deep south for over 30 years and i can PROMISE you that i have never seen more bitter, hate filled, resentful, and downright racist people than black people and they do not care who they take this out on, innocent or not.

We live in different worlds, I guess. But I do genuinely find hope in the fact that the coming generation have less rigid and quite open views on key social issues including race and sexual orientation than their parents.

Not all of them, of course, but enough, with a bit of luck, to make a difference. And it's supported by the fact that all the major political parties are supporting a progressive social agenda; their economic policies might seem to contradict that, but it's still moving in the right direction.

I can only hope that things improve where you live too.

[GroobySteven]

Tell me oh wise one, what could i learn from these four kids? You probably didn't watch them long enough. If you had, I guarantee you the black kid would have stolen something from one of the other kids. See, with a little patience and observation even you will lose faith.


My apologies, I thought I'd banned this cunt two days ago.
He's gone now.

Another one is going also if he wants to continue that route.

[Prospero]

I'm glad this site is being policed better. It is astonishing the way these racists pop up, spew their poison and get expelled - only for another four or five to spring full formed from the soil.

[fastingforlife]

[quote=robertlouis;1160080][quote=hard4janira;1160073]


Fair enough. I'm just trying to be a dick tonight anyways. I'm in the mood. Nevertheless, I'll never stop exsposing the sheer hypocrisy of those who only see racism and hate crimes as white on black. I've lived in the deep south for over 30 years and i can PROMISE you that i have never seen more bitter, hate filled, resentful, and downright racist people than black people and they do not care who they take this out on, innocent or not.

Well, the actions of the police, in not arresting Zimmerman the night of the incident, does not reflect well on the racial sentiments of my fellow white comrades. We have to do a much better job in setting an example of even handedness.

[fastingforlife]

I'm glad this site is being policed better. It is astonishing the way these racists pop up, spew their poison and get expelled - only for another four or five to spring full formed from the soil.

As one was threatened, that my interest in this site, would be exposed to my wife, children and employer, simply because someone did not like my opinion, I cannot agree that the policing has improved. I was amazed at the spinelessness of my fellow members from both the right and left who saw me being blackmailed, and stood by as mutes. Their courage was breathtaking.

[GroobySteven]

As one was threatened, that my interest in this site, would be exposed to my wife, children and employer, simply because someone did not like my opinion, I cannot agree that the policing has improved. I was amazed at the spinelessness of my fellow members from both the right and left who saw me being blackmailed, and stood by as mutes. Their courage was breathtaking.

You make you're own bed. You probably should have stayed away from here after that.

[south ov da border]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-dad-call-20120620_1_dispatcher-phone-number-gated-community

[Token Williams-Black]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-dad-call-20120620_1_dispatcher-phone-number-gated-community
Oh, god I can't wait to read the comments from THIS one...:mad:

[south ov da border]

Oh, god I can't wait to read the comments from THIS one...:mad:


I live in the area. People do not understand the racial issues here. They are BAD. They still exist and will continue to because people just don't want to change. There are many instances here that have happened.

Example. A black student in the eastern parts of Orange county got tied up and left in a field with cows and other animals. They covered it up.

Teachers in certain schools are repetedly called nigger or complained about to admistration because of their "racist" ways.

It's crazy here

But the main issue about this Trayvon case is this--- The police did nothing to identify the body or contact the family. That is what the problem is and how it blew up in their faces. It's a mess and needs to be dealt with...

[hard4janira]

My apologies, I thought I'd banned this cunt two days ago.
He's gone now.

Another one is going also if he wants to continue that route.


Banned for what you pillock?

[natina]

ok can we get back on subject?

no one has commented on the below breaking news items



CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html



June 13, 2012: MediaTakeOut.com is happy to announce that yesterday the wife of George Zimmerman was charged with perjury. The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 . Shellie Zimmerman was released on bond. Her husband, neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, 28, killed the Florida teenager Trayvon Martin on February 26.

Now it is alleged in court documents that Shellie Zimmerman used money transfers to hide the couple's finances as they fought for his release on bond. The arrest affidavit alleges that records show that just days before an April bond hearing for her husband, Shellie Zimmerman, 25, transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's account to hers.

It also alleges that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

CNN;Zimmerman's wife arrested, CHARGED WITH perjury



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html


BREAKING NEWS: Trayvon's Killer Zimmerman Is ACCUSED OF Assaulting A BLACK POLICE OFFICER!!! (And He Served NO TIME In Jail For It)

March 27, 2012: MediaTakeOutcom learned today that George Zimmerman, the man who MURDERED Trayvon Martin, was charged in 2005 with ASSAULTING a police officer. The mainstream media is GLOSSING OVER this fact, claiming that it was some sort ofmisunderstanding.

Well MediaTakeOut.com spoke with AN INFORMANT, inside the Orlando police department, who tell us that the officer who ZIMMERMAN assaulted - was AFRICAN AMERICAN.

This dude is an ANIMAL. He really believes that he can do ANYTHING to Black people, whether they're OFFICERS, children, armed, or UNARMED.

He really needs to be off the streets!!

http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/55039/breaking-news-trayvon-s-killer-zimmerman-is-accused-of-assaulting-a-black-police-officer-and-he-served-no-time-in-jail-for-it.html


NEW! zimmerman evidence released

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/15/exp-eb-new-evidence-george-zimmerman.cnn


Graphic Evidence Of The Racism Of Fox News: Racial Photoshopping

News reports are suggesting that later today the authorities in Florida will announce charges against Trayvon Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman. Coverage of this story was handled by Fox News in a manner that is revealing and offensive – and wholly unique to Fox News:




This is a journalistic lynching. And note, this is not Fox Nation. It is the mothership, Fox News. The editors at this alleged “news” network are demonstrating their overt hostility to both African-Americans and journalistic ethics. If this picture doesn’t finally establish the overarching prejudice of Fox, it’s hard to know what will. Their bias is so clearly being exercised with a zealotry that the Klan would shrink from. How do they get away with this?
[Update] Fox News changed their graphic.

This is a more impartial photo that does not disparage the victim (although it still is not as overtly cheerful as Zimmerman’s pic). You think they got a few complaints about the previous photo? They must have had a reason for changing it.

[Addendum] A couple of commenters have asserted (without proof) that the lighter picture of Trayvon was the one that was Photoshopped. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they are right and that the picture Fox used was not altered (at least by Fox). That does not change the fact that Fox made an editorial decision to use that picture. They had numerous pictures from which to choose of both Trayvon and Zimmerman, and they chose the most negative picture of Trayvon which they paired with the most positive picture of Zimmerman. That was not an accident. It was the result of deliberate editorial judgment. And it tells us everything we need to know about Fox’s editors.
For more on the subject of media and race, check out the excellent book by Democracy Now’s Juan Gonzalez:

There has also been some discussion as to whether making Trayvon look darker was inherently racist. Two points: 1) Making anyone look darker has the effect of making them look more sinister. And making the subject of a photo look more sinister, regardless of race, is blatant editorial bias. 2) Darker skinned African-Americans are not viewed more negatively by fair-minded people who are free of prejudice, but they are viewed more negatively by people predisposed to discriminate on the basis of race – i.e. Fox News viewers. Fox is playing to their audience and they know who they are. Studies show (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=2231) that the African-American segment of viewers of Fox News in primetime is only 1.38%. That compares to 19.3% for MSNBC, and 20.7% for CNN, numbers that are much closer to the 14% of African-Americans in the population at large. Or, as the Simpsons put it…

Finally, The question of whether or not George Zimmerman is racist, while important, is secondary here. The real problem is the racism exhibited by the local law enforcement authorities who simply accepted Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense without making an arrest and conducting a proper investigation. Exacerbating that is the overt racism of the right-wing press and their followers. The primary focus going forward should, of course, be the pursuit of justice and the suffering of the victims family. After that the focus should fall on the police and the media as this affair winds its way through the courts. But we should be grateful that concerned citizens spoke out and hit the streets to protest this injustice or there would be no court case at all.
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=6851

http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/foxnews-trayvon-graphic.jpg



http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/foxnews-trayvon-graphic-2.jpg


http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/Caps/simpsons-fox-racist.jpg


EXClUDE HERE FROM THE jury pool PLEASE

Barbara Espinosa calls Obama a monkey and says: I voted for the white guy

OR GOP RACIST?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=y6fBQTUvdXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y6fBQTUvdXU)




the topic now is zimmerman wife being charged with a FELONY & ZIMMERMANS CONFESSION

to prosecuters when he did not keep in touch with his 1st attorney.


ZIMMERMAN ALSO SAID SOME OTHER INCREMINATING THINGS ON THE PHONE WITH HIS WIFE WHILE HE WAS IN JAIL



Zimmerman's wife arrested on perjury charge (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/zimmermans-wife-arrested-on-perjury-charge/)

The wife of a Florida man charged with fatally shooting an unarmed teen in February has been arrested on a perjury charge, according to a Florida state attorney's office.
The charge relates to testimony that Shellie Zimmerman (pictured) gave during a bail hearing for her husband, George Zimmerman. Prosecutors contend that Shellie Zimmerman falsely told the court that she and her husband were indigent.
Shellie Zimmerman, 25, was arrested Tuesday, according to Jackie Barnard, spokeswoman for the state attorney's office in the state's Fourth Judicial Circuit. She was released after posting $1,000 bail, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said.
George Zimmerman, 28, is a neighborhood watch volunteer charged with murder in connection with the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17, in a Sanford, Florida, neighborhood. George Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense and has pleaded not guilty.
A Florida judge revoked his bail June 1 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html) after agreeing with prosecutors that he had misrepresented how much money he had. He is expected to ask for a new bail hearing (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html).

FULL STORY (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html)

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/zimmermans-wife-arrested-on-perjury-charge




http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120612081736-shellie-zimmerman-arrested-story-top.jpg


Prosecutors: Jail phone transcripts show Zimmerman, wife talking finances in code


CNN) -- Despite telling the court they were indigent, George Zimmerman and his wife discussed (http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/20/who-shellie-zimmerman-shooters-wife-talks-public-first-time-hearing) -- in code, according to prosecutors -- money raised online to help in his defense on second-degree murder charges, jailhouse phone calls released Monday show.
Prosecutors had claimed the Zimmermans lied about their financial means before a Florida judge set his bond, which the suspect then posted to get out of jail. Zimmerman, accused in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, is now back behind bars after the judge revoked his bail, citing the misrepresentations.
Six calls made public Monday, out of about 151 total that Zimmerman made while incarcerated, appear to back up the prosecutor's assertions.

At her husband's April 20 bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman testified she didn't know how much had been raised through the website (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html) her husband had set up before charges being filed.
And when asked whether the couple had money available to assist in his defense, she replied, "Um, not -- not that I'm aware of."
In one jailhouse phone conversation, Zimmerman asks his wife, "In my account, do I have at least $100?" She answers no, then tells him he has more like "$8, $8.60."
"So total everything, how much are we looking at?" Zimmerman asks his wife.
"Like $155," she responds.
Prosecutors claim the husband and wife were speaking in a type of code about their available funds, an assertion Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara says the defense has "never contested."
"There's no question that they were talking in this sort of simplistic kind of code, where they were talking about $155 when, without question, they were talking about $155,000," O'Mara told CNN's Piers Morgan on Monday night.
In another call, Zimmerman asks his wife to "pay off all the bills," including Sam's Club and American Express bills, prosecutors said.
The couple also discusses how much money can be accessed and what to do with it, including transferring funds that were raised online for his defense to accounts belonging to Zimmerman's sister and wife, prosecutors state in a probable cause affidavit.
Records released Monday show that tens of thousands of dollars were transferred out of a bank account. Prosecutors allege a total of $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's account from April 16 and 17, and that Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $74,000 from her husband's account to her account between April 16 and April 19.
After George Zimmerman was released on bond this spring, his wife transferred more than $85,500 from her account back to his account, according to the affidavit.

Prosecutors allege the couple actually had about $135,000 of donations at their disposal when they both told the court, under oath, they were indigent.
O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, later said his client ended up netting a total of $204,000 via PayPal accounts -- about $150,000 of which is now in an independently managed trust after $30,000 was used to pay for "life in hiding" and $20,000 has been kept liquid.
On June 1, Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. agreed with the prosecution that the Zimmermans were dishonest about their financial status and, after revoking George Zimmerman's bond, ordered that he return to jail. He remains behind bars and has a second bond hearing set for June 29.
On June 12, Shellie Zimmerman was arrested on a perjury charge (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/index.html), accused of lying at her husband's bond hearing about the couple's finances. She was released later that day after meeting the conditions of a $1,000 bond, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said.
The defense team on Monday filed a motion asking a judge to reconsider the release of a witness statement and to clarify a previous ruling on the release of additional jail phone calls. Both issues will be addressed during next week's bond hearing.
It all ties into the larger case against Zimmerman, who prosecutors say ignored a police dispatcher's instruction and pursued Martin as he was walking in a Sanford, Florida, gated community last winter and shot the unarmed teenager. The 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, meanwhile, has insisted he shot Martin in self-defense.
Independent attorneys told HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell the jailhouse recordings should be relevant in the case -- both as the judge weighs how high to set Zimmerman's bail and, once the trial begins, potentially affecting jurors' assessment as to whether his account of what happened February 26 can be trusted. While investigators talked to several neighbors and others, no one saw the shooting directly except for Zimmerman and the now-deceased Martin.
"His credibility is everything. Why would he risk it on something that is so trivial as this?" Georgia-based lawyer Pilar Prinz said of the Zimmermans' jailhouse discussions about their money. " I can't understand it."
O'Mara acknowledged the Zimmermans inflicted a "great blow to their credibility," making it clear the two had available funds and were not honest about it -- something that might prompt Judge Lester to order the defendant to stay in jail until the trial because he feels "he can no longer trust him."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/18/justice/florida-zimmerman-calls/index.html?iref=obnetwork




BREAKING NEWS video!;AS NEW EVIDENCE ROLLS IN Sanford police chief fired in wake of Trayvon Martin case


(CNN) -- Sanford, Florida, Police Chief Bill Lee, who drew criticism for his department's actions in the Trayvon Martin case, was fired Wednesday.
"After much thoughtful discussion and deep consideration for the issues facing the city of Sanford, I have determined the police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community," City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release.
"We need to move forward with a police chief that all the citizens of Sanford can support. I have come to this decision in light of the escalating divisiveness that has taken hold of the city."
Lee will receive a three-month severance and a week's salary in addition to any earned time off.
As a search for Lee's replacement is carried out, interim Chief Richard W. Myers will remain on the job.



http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/justice/florida-martin-case-police-chief/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

[fastingforlife]

You make you're own bed. You probably should have stayed away from here after that.

Blackmail is an act of extreme cowardice, perpetrated by the weakest among us. Happy to see that you are a chief defender of the practice.

[GrimFusion]

As one was threatened, that my interest in this site, would be exposed to my wife, children and employer, simply because someone did not like my opinion, I cannot agree that the policing has improved. I was amazed at the spinelessness of my fellow members from both the right and left who saw me being blackmailed, and stood by as mutes. Their courage was breathtaking.

Have you read the forum rules? If Sean would rather consider banning you after a conversation where you feel wronged by blackmail, it's because you screwed up and aired an off-kilter opinion you probably should have kept private. If nothing else, you were still the catalyst for a slew of negative reactions that wouldn't have otherwise taken place if you knew how to properly conduct yourself and be discreet.

Cowardice has nothing to do with it. You can't expect people to step-to-the-plate and defend you when you've effectively ostracized a large portion of forum members and in-turn, pissed off the majority of regular posters. Comradery doesn't work like that. Blackmail isn't a desperate and cowardly action when it's the only leverage that can be manipulated to shut a person up, especially if that's the only intention.

[fastingforlife]

Have you read the forum rules? If Sean would rather consider banning you after a conversation where you feel wronged by blackmail, it's because you screwed up and aired an off-kilter opinion you probably should have kept private. If nothing else, you were still the catalyst for a slew of negative reactions that wouldn't have otherwise taken place if you knew how to properly conduct yourself and be discreet.

Cowardice has nothing to do with it. You can't expect people to step-to-the-plate and defend you when you've effectively ostracized a large portion of forum members and in-turn, pissed off the majority of regular posters. Comradery doesn't work like that. Blackmail isn't a desperate and cowardly action when it's the only leverage that can be manipulated to shut a person up, especially if that's the only intention.

wrong on all points, please face towards the back of the classroom.

[fastingforlife]

Have you read the forum rules? If Sean would rather consider banning you after a conversation where you feel wronged by blackmail, it's because you screwed up and aired an off-kilter opinion you probably should have kept private. If nothing else, you were still the catalyst for a slew of negative reactions that wouldn't have otherwise taken place if you knew how to properly conduct yourself and be discreet.

Cowardice has nothing to do with it. You can't expect people to step-to-the-plate and defend you when you've effectively ostracized a large portion of forum members and in-turn, pissed off the majority of regular posters. Comradery doesn't work like that. Blackmail isn't a desperate and cowardly action when it's the only leverage that can be manipulated to shut a person up, especially if that's the only intention.

you attempted to validate blackmail. Now have a go at child molestation.

[runningdownthatdream]

wrong on all points, please face towards the back of the classroom.

with all due respect (yep I'm being sarcastic).......it's really you that should be stepping to the back hombre. Your inane ramblings about 'white' and 'hispanic' and Puerto Ricans who assault people for calling them white indicate you might be somewhat intellectually challenged.....or at very least socially challenged.

[Prospero]

I would like to add a remark or two here.

I missed the threat from Sean to expose Fastingforlife's name and details. Though that is surely a uick way to get someone to toe the line, at the risk of being out of line with the owner and his way of running this place (which i generally find to my liking) i do think that this isn't the ideal path to pursue. The answer and solution is far simpler - a temporary or permanent ban. I think that if someone on here is being consistently offensive in a way that breaks the rules - with racist, sexist etc abuse, or is making threatening remarks and the sort of behaviour that has too often taken place in here in the past,then the simple course should be a ban. That is MY opinion.

I fervently believe in freedom of speech - even for complete idiots - within key constraints. And so, though i usually find FastingForLife's views ridiculous and almost always at odds with my own and call him out on them often, I do not think he should be censored or banned for having disagreeable or stupid views. I hate your views but will defend to the death your right to express them. That's the famous principle isn't it. But he and anyone else here should be told NOT to post remarks which are prejudiced or tend to fuel prejudice or constitute hate speech. So reasonable argument about law and order etc is fine. Ponting the figure at one ethnic, religious, political, social, sexual group and dealing in crude objectifying stereotypes is not.

By and large though I still think this place has benefited from tighter rules - such as the banning of HardJanira a couple of days ago. And of course in the end the owner of the site has the right to ban us for anything he likes. He owns it. If it were a newspaper and i wanted to offer an article at odds with that publications philosophy (of right or left) I would probably expect not to get published.

[trish]

Of course blackmail wouldn't be the dire threat you apparently deem it to be if you weren't ashamed of your behavior. I'm just curious, what is it that would so shame you in front of your family: your wanking in front of the computer, your preference for chicks with dicks or the revelation of yor deeply ingrained racism? Imagine having to admit to your wife that you habituated a porn forum and then explain to her why you were kicked out! lol

Be assured I agree with Prospero on this one and find the use of blackmail something that ought to be avoided.

[runningdownthatdream]

Of course blackmail wouldn't be the dire threat you apparently deem it to be if you weren't ashamed of your behavior. I'm just curious, what is it that would so shame you in front of your family: your wanking in front of the computer, your preference for chicks with dicks or the revelation of yor deeply ingrained racism? Imagine having to admit to your wife that you habituated a porn forum and then explain to her why you were kicked out! lol

Be assured I agree with Prospero on this one and find the use of blackmail something that ought to be avoided.

.......exactly so......just as the degenerates who roamed the night terrorizing defenseless people wore hoods to hide their shame since most 'white' people were ashamed of them.

[fastingforlife]

with all due respect (yep I'm being sarcastic).......it's really you that should be stepping to the back hombre. Your inane ramblings about 'white' and 'hispanic' and Puerto Ricans who assault people for calling them white indicate you might be somewhat intellectually challenged.....or at very least socially challenged.

You have mo idea what you are even speaking about..twit.

[fastingforlife]

Of course blackmail wouldn't be the dire threat you apparently deem it to be if you weren't ashamed of your behavior. I'm just curious, what is it that would so shame you in front of your family: your wanking in front of the computer, your preference for chicks with dicks or the revelation of yor deeply ingrained racism? Imagine having to admit to your wife that you habituated a porn forum and then explain to her why you were kicked out! lol

Be assured I agree with Prospero on this one and find the use of blackmail something that ought to be avoided.

I am not ashamed of any aspect of my behavior. The original threat, was to out my political and social views, which my wife knows well, and my two adult daughters find comical. My employer on the other hand, is a bastion of political correctness, probably finding each and every view I hold as non-conforming. That being said, once you out my views, you also out my interest in hungangels. My wife would not care, again my daughters would most likley find this comical, but my employer would not. In summary, I like my privacy and anonymity preserved. An act of blackmail is a vile and criminal act against my person, which nobody on this board, including the owner should tolerate.

[fastingforlife]

.......exactly so......just as the degenerates who roamed the night terrorizing defenseless people wore hoods to hide their shame since most 'white' people were ashamed of them.

That is a stupid and meaningless comparison. If the owner of this board, required all of us to disclose our name and contact information, I would have absolutely no problem letting everyone on the board know how to find me. The problem is, based on one members belief that balckmail is a legitimate means to an end, who then can i trust? Especially when only a few, see blackmail as a crime, with a victim.

[fastingforlife]

with all due respect (yep I'm being sarcastic).......it's really you that should be stepping to the back hombre. Your inane ramblings about 'white' and 'hispanic' and Puerto Ricans who assault people for calling them white indicate you might be somewhat intellectually challenged.....or at very least socially challenged.

You know nothing of my writings.

[Prospero]

Fastingforlife - just because i spoke in favour of free speech doesn't mean you're not a hypocritical racist asshole - as it seems so is your wife.

[GroobySteven]

Blackmail is an act of extreme cowardice, perpetrated by the weakest among us. Happy to see that you are a chief defender of the practice.

There was no blackmail dipshit. You were using threatening language and claiming you were untraceable, I showed you weren't as I found out your name, where you worked, you're religious wife's name and other shit - all from you're email address.
You're banned anyway.

[trish]

I am not ashamed of any aspect of my behavior. The original threat, was to out my political and social views, which my wife knows well, and my two adult daughters find comical...I'm with your daughters. :D

[broncofan]

Sure, but times change. Maybe blacks in the 50s, 60s, and 70s didn't have that choice and had to simply accept the label society wanted to hand them, but that hasn't been true since then. For christs sake, we've had a black president for the last four years. If black people wanted to gather together and get shit changed, why hasn't it happened? Fox news. lol.

Of course all Americans *should* be treated equally. Save for rich people who pay fewer taxes... and the impoverish who need social programs... and the handicapped... and "African-Americans", Native-Americans... and the Jews. You can't forget about them. I guess I should throw gay people into that mix, too.

The same people who want to preach equality usually fall into one of those "special categories" and if true equality were to occur, they'd be the first to complain. Until then, you'll still have a few nutjobs well within their right to free speech spew straight bigotry and ignorance and the rest of society just trying their damanedest to ignore the bull shit. Enjoy your college fund.
What are you talking about? African-Americans are still denied jobs based on race, are often paid less for doing the same work, and are subject to abuse in the workplace. Women are paid less on average for performing the same work as men and empirical studies demonstrate this.

Jewish people are victims of hate crimes at a higher rate than any religious group. I've not only been threatened in person with violence for my background but had property of mine vandalized with swastikas. And for this what advantage am I asking for other than for it not to happen?

I don't think that minority groups that want equal treatment are really asking for preferential treatment. The reason there are laws and social programs that have been implemented is to ameliorate pre-existing problems, not to confer advantages on these groups.

[broncofan]

Blackmail is the offer to abstain from carrying out a threat to reveal information in exchange for valuable consideration. There was no consideration such as money, property, or anything of value solicited. There was therefore no blackmail.

I'm not saying I agree with fastingforlife's threatened outing (if that's what was implied), but he did take a dizzying array of contradictory positions regarding the value of anonymity as well as the legitimacy of veiled threat-making. His racist comments in the thread where this all took place also were of the gutwrenching variety that makes one tempted to remove the element of anonymity and restore accountability.

[Token Williams-Black]

I don't think that minority groups that want equal treatment are really asking for preferential treatment. The reason there are laws and social programs that have been implemented is to ameliorate pre-existing problems, not to confer advantages on these groups.
This right here. If there was TRUE equality, we wouldn't need the NAACP, affirmative action, the Voters Rights Act, etc, etc, etc...

[Prospero]

Sean - good decision.

[natina]

Proof of Zimmerman's lies;billy the kid/tom Laughlin
Proof of Zimmerman's lies



Tom Laughlin gives incontrovertible proof that Zimmerman lies when he says Trayvon beat his head on the cement for one full minute and that it was self defense. Also, instead of being overcharged, Zimmerman was undercharged for the murder of Trayvon, and that the Judge must recuse himself for his incredible bias towards protecting Zimmerman.



Proof of Zimmerman's lies - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae9bv-ZgsDk&feature=related)

[natina]

your voice is as UNIQUE AS A FINGER PRINT.

voice identification NOW IS JUST LIKE FINGER PRINTS thats how terroist or potential terroist are caught now .

USING FORENSIC VOICE ANALYSIS.

*ZIMMERMAN LIED,TRAYVONS LAST WORDS WAS" HELP"!

*ZIMMERMAN SAID TRAYVONS LAST WORDS WAS "YOU GOT ME"



Expert Voice Analysists Say Screams are NOT zimmerman

Owen Forensic Services LLC they have newer technology thats used by the CIA AND OTHER GOVERMENT AGEN

Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence
Owen Forensic Services LLC they have newer technology thats used by the CIA AND OTHER GOVERMENT AGENCIES IN TERROIST CASES.its been used in murder trials successfully.

TRAYVON MARTIN ORIGINAL 911 CALL ENHANCED VERSION! (Screams) Last word (HELP) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxJieDtLo0&feature=related)

Zimmerman Screamed For Help, Not Trayvon Martin Says Eyewitness "John"
Zimmerman Screamed For Help, Not Trayvon Martin Says Eyewitness "John" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVldtfNo3w&feature=related)

Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman
Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

THE FBI does not have the state of the art voice analysis technology ZIMM LIED!

*two forensic voice identification experts

*"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence

*Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

information leaked that the voice forensically tested.

Zimmerman lied claiming he was the one hollering for help a witness collaborated it then...


after information leaked that the voice forensically analyzed and it wasnt Zimmerman hollering for help the witness took back there story that it Zimmerman hollering for help Zimmerman caught in a lie cause he did not know the incident was being recorded on 911 tapes


* ZIMMERMAN IS A LIER
* ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP
** ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP HE DID NOT KNOW THE INCIDENT WAS BEING RECORDED

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

[natina]

NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE argument
Detective faulted George Zimmerman for not avoiding confrontation with Trayvon Martin.



Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman missed two opportunities to try to peacefully approach Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the unarmed teenager, according to an investigator's report released Tuesday.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," investigator Chris Serino wrote in an arrest warrant affidavit.

The affidavit was filed more than two weeks after the shooting when the Sanford Police Department was being criticized for not having arrested Zimmerman. Serino's March 13 affidavit recommended Zimmerman be picked up for manslaughter, but a special prosecutor assigned to take over the case upped the charge to second-degree murder.

The documents released Tuesday are part of the public pre-trial records filed in the criminal case.

Zimmerman, 28, maintains he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense under Florida's "stand your ground law." He said he fired the fatal shot only after being ambushed and brutally attacked by the 17-year-old.

The deadly encounter occurred in a gated Sanford, Fla., neighborhood where Zimmerman lived and Martin was staying with a family friend. Zimmerman called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person walking through the area. He told the operator Martin was "up to no good" and "has his hand in his waist band."

In the report released Tuesday, police say Zimmerman contradicted himself by saying that he was initially fearful of Martin but later got out of his vehicle and followed after the teen.

"His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject," Serino wrote.

The Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday afternoon that Serino, Sanford's lead investigator on the case, has been granted a request to move from detective work to patrol duty.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/detective-faulted-george-zimmerman-not-avoiding-confrontation-trayvon-192523670.html

[natina]

the objective physical evidence should out weigh the testimony of any witness.

zimmerman stated that he 1st followed trayvon martin in his vehicle then got out of his truck to pursue trayvon martin on foot.

zimmerman had no life or death injuries on his body.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/25/justice/florida-zimmerman-bond/index.html

[Token Williams-Black]

Honestly, I'm over all of this. I already know what the outcome will be. "The more things change, the more they stay the same..."

[natina]

zimmermans lawyer is talking about a plea deal

I will post the article and video I seen yesterday

[natina]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/25/12401375-defense-attorney-zimmerman-poses-no-threat-should-be-released-on-bail-again?lite


Zimmerman attorney Admits credibility issue

CNN's Erin Burnett reports on the latest developments in the George Zimmerman case.

CNN video

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/04/exp-eb-zimmerman-bond-hearing.cnn

[natina]

BREAKING NEWS;THIS JUST IN ,THE POLICE CONFRONT ZIMMERMAN AND HE HAS NO ANSWER!

Quotation from Interview with Detective


"

The biggest problem, according to (Detective) Serino, was Zimmerman’s insistence that Trayvon suddenly jumped him and tried to kill him without provocation.

“The kid has no violent tendencies that we can find. What made him snap?” Serino asked.

“He's not on PCP. He's not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”

Zimmerman could not answer.

“He was 17 years old, an athlete, probably going into aeronautics. A kid with a future, a kid with folks that care...not a goon,” the detective said.

“He does not fit the profile of what occurred.”

Zimmerman had no reaction.

Serino also questioned Zimmerman repeatedly about why he never identified himself to Trayvon as a neighborhood watchman, Which Zimmerman could not explain.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-21/news/32356355_1_new-evidence-answer-teenager


Now that Zimmerman has been charged, I'm happy to simply await the outcome of the trial.

But a little notice to the baiters who come here to insinuate that Trayvon was some kind of a thug.


THIS DETECTIVE IS EXPLICITLY SAYING THAT TRAYVON DID NOT FIT THAT PROFILE.

It is also abundantly clear that Zimmerman did NOT politely identify himself as a concerned citizen / neighborhood watch "

[natina]

George Zimmerman bail hearing ends, ruling pending

A bail hearing in Sanford, Fla. for George Zimmerman concluded Friday after a heated exchange in which prosecutors argued for denying bond and the defense called on the judge to reinstate the defendant's $150,000 bail, which was revoked in early June.
Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester was weighing the arguments and will issue his ruling by written order, a public information officer for the Seminole County court said. The spokesman did not offer the timing of that order.

Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the February shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, is seeking release on bail for the second time. His initial bail of $150,000 was revoked and he was rearrested on June 3, after prosecutors argued that Zimmerman, with the aid of his wife's testimony, had misled the court about their financial picture in the first bail hearing on April 20.
Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to the charge, and asserted that he acted in self-defense.
Earlier in the three-hour proceedings, Zimmerman's father, Robert John Zimmerman, took the stand briefly.
After the elder Zimmerman was sworn in, defense attorney Mark O'Mara played a witness 911 tape that captured the sounds of screaming and a shot being fired during the fatal encounter between Trayvon and Zimmerman.
Under questioning by O'Mara, the elder Zimmerman said he told state investigators that the voice of the man screaming "was absolutely George's."
Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda then questioned Robert Zimmerman, asking how his son could make those screaming noises if, as George Zimmerman told police, Martin was covering his nose and mouth.
Robert Zimmerman responded: "From the look of my son's injuries, Trayvon Martin's hands were not just on his nose and mouth."
The court heard testimony from firefighter Kevin O'Rourke, of the Sanford Fire Department, who was called to the scene after the shooting. O'Rourke, who said he attended to Zimmerman, answered questions about the severity of the shooter's injuries.
"I observed that he had blood on his face and the back of his head," O'Rourke said.
He said that Zimmerman's nose was "obviously deformed," agreeing with defense attorney Don West that the injury was consistent with a broken nose. But under questioning by prosecutor de la Rionda, O'Rourke said he didn't diagnose Zimmerman with a broken nose.
The court was also shown the last minutes of a video taken by Sanford police on Feb. 27 in which Zimmerman discusses wounds to his nose and head.
Zimmerman appeared at the hearing wearing a grey suit, after O'Mara had successfully argued that showing up in prison garb and shackles could damage his client's chances of getting a fair trial.
Martin's older brother Jahvaris Martin attended the hearing, along with Trayvon's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton. The family was escorted -- and sat with -- family attorney Benjamin Crump.
Following the money
At the start of the hearing, the first witness to testify, at the request of Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O'Mara, was an accounting expert Adam MaGill, who detailed a series of money transfers conducted by the defendant's wife, using money contributed for his legal defense.
MaGill, who was called by the defense, said he was asked by O'Mara to look at records of money transfers from Zimmerman's PayPal account to the official legal defense fund later established by O'Mara.
Prosecutors charge that Zimmerman, and his wife Shellie misled the court about their finances his first bail hearing.
Shellie Zimmerman testified at that April 20 proceeding that she did not know how much money was in a PayPal account set up for contributions to her husband's legal defense.
In recorded telephone conversations from jail prior to that date, Zimmerman and his wife appear to discuss — in thinly disguised code — the amount of money in the account, and he instructs her to make a series of transfers to other accounts, the prosecution charges. (Read original report (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/18/12284954-zimmerman-spoke-to-wife-in-code-from-jail-to-hide-assets-prosecutors-allege?lite).)
Special Prosecutor Angela Corey used the recordings to persuade the judge to revoke the original bond for George Zimmerman. Shellie Zimmerman was arrested on June 12, charged with perjury and released on $1,000 bond.
She was not present at Friday's bond hearing for her husband.
O’Mara told NBC on Thursday that if Zimmerman is released on bond, he would go back into hiding for his own safety. The shooting death of Martin, an unarmed black teenager, in February has stirred an emotional national debate about race, gun rights and "stand your ground" laws like the one in Florida that use a broad definition of self-defense.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/29/12474108-george-zimmerman-bail-hearing-ends-ruling-pending?lite

[giovanni_hotel]

Why is he even being considered for bail a second time?? IMO Zimmerman will be convicted, I just don't know to what degree. If the prosecution can convince a jury the voice yelling for 'help' on the 911 call is in fact Trayvon Martin, a 2nd degree murder conviction is almost guaranteed. I still believe there was a fight, however I think George and Trayvon separated before Zimmerman shot him.

[natina]

George Zimmerman Bullied Former Colleague, Complaint Says

One of George Zimmerman's former colleagues at CarMax, where he worked in 2008, complained formally about the man who killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, alleging serial hazing that lasted for months and included pranks and ethnic jokes.

When the salesman complained to management, Zimmerman denied the harassment.
"The guy was so convincing when he was confronted by management to the point where I doubted my own self. I would not be surprised if he got away with it [Martin murder accusation]."

"He's got, like you say, a good poker face. Great poker face," said the colleague. "That pretty much summarizes this guy's personality. Great poker face."

The employee, who is an Arab-American, worked part time at the used car retailership during 2008, and rose quickly to become one of the company's top salesmen, despite the hazing, he says.

"These are some of the bully activities I have been facing that led me to be concerned about my work environment," he wrote in the one page complaint. The complaint accused Zimmerman of pressuring him to split deals with him, of repeatedly "impersonating me in a terrorist character," and mocked him constantly to earn the laughs of fellow workers.

Read the Letter Accusing George Zimmerman of Bullying His Colleague
In the letter, the colleague states, "Since I started working in CarMax Sanford, George has been dealing with me in an unprofessional manner and have mastered the art of emerging as the nice guy to others in order to make me look like the unsocial type and out of place."

He also accused Zimmerman of giving the new worker "wrong directions about how to perform my job, and then later made jokes to other employees and managers of how 'stupid' I was to listen."

The former car salesman insists that Zimmerman, who was 24 at the time, was not a racist, but would do anything to gain the approval of his colleagues, chiefly harassing their new colleague with Middle Eastern jokes. He said the racist remarks hurt more than anything else.

http://mto.mediatakeout.com/external/56943
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-bullied-colleague-complaint/story?id=16658024