17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[trish]

Hey hey hey...I'm not trying to disprove anything. Like I said, I was just answering a question Mr. Brilliant Math Guy. But we just got back on topic. Can we stay there for awhile. (btw: not many computer scientists have an interest in co-analytic subsets of the Baire space).

[robertlouis]

...and sure enough, up he pops with a new identity, mathematics1800, achieved simply by deducting 100 from his number and placing himself in the right century at last.

Let the fun continue....

Now its 1700 and he's just after the Salem Witch Trials. Great stuff.

I can give you a commentary for every century to about 300BC. Keep going, pal.

[buttslinger]

God you're stupid

Where you say you're from?

[yourdaddy]

10010110001010101010101010010101010100010101010100 1101010100101010101010101 01010101010101010100010101010101010110101010101101 0101010101010101000101010 10101010100001101010101010101010101010101001010110
translation: Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto

Axe him do he know binary trish.

[trish]

I only speak English myself, with and without expletives depending on the need.

[Solitary Brother]

I am beginning to think that just maybe Zimmermans account of what happened COULD be what actually happened.
There is that possibility.
That voice recording was inconclusive and they examine all his other calls to 911 and no hint of racism.
A lot of people will have there feelings hurt if Zimmerman gets off but he is now going through the system.
It's a shame because 2 lives will be ruined.
If only Zimmerman keep his fat ass in his house and didn't try to be a cowboy.

[natina]

george zimmerman's Story Falling Apart Fast - Police Car Video
george zimmerman's Story Falling Apart Fast - Police Car Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVbTFIA5jZs&feature=related)



George Zimmerman's VIOLENT HISTORY
special treatment cause his dad is a retired judge

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite



Criminally Negligent Homicide




(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)


What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.


Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:


-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator


-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program


-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement



Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.


He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.




In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,


or the firing of the gun.


Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.


If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...





then he's guilty under the law.

[giovanni_hotel]

I am beginning to think that just maybe Zimmermans account of what happened COULD be what actually happened.
There is that possibility.
That voice recording was inconclusive and they examine all his other calls to 911 and no hint of racism.
A lot of people will have there feelings hurt if Zimmerman gets off but he is now going through the system.
It's a shame because 2 lives will be ruined.
If only Zimmerman keep his fat ass in his house and didn't try to be a cowboy.


Just remember Zimmerman has given MULTIPLE accounts of what happened.
His latest account is that while following Trayvon, he lost sight of him and this scared teen DOUBLED BACK around George and ambushed(!) him from behind.

That shit only happens in movies.

IRL if your ass is being followed by a stranger, you would NEVER double back especially if you are unarmed.

THat's what is going to fuck up Zimmerman, that Trayvon didn't even have a nickel bag of weed on him, so his lawyers could say Trayvon was dealing or some garbage.
I do agree I hope people are prepared to see Zimmerman get off, however by overcharging Zimmerman initially I think the special prosecutor is almost guaranteeing he's convicted of negligent homicide.

[natina]

Retired Police Detective Lou Palumbo Analyzes The Zimmerman Arrest Video, Finds Irregularities
Retired Police Detective Lou Palumbo Analyzes The Zimmerman Arrest Video, Finds Irregularities - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTWrVZoSIwg&feature=related)

[jamesedwards]

Let's just face it George Zimmerman is all messed up. He is going to jail because the evidence against him is to factual.

1. He was told to not engage the teen, and he did anyway
2. He lied and said Trayvon broke his nose, and busted his head on the concrete which is a lie because various videos from different angles show no bruising what so ever and no blood on his clothes and NO MEDICAL RECORDS!!! If they had medic records of his bruises they would have bragged about that immediately and brought that out. If he was beat down as they said he was he would of went into the hospital and not have gone straight to the police station 30 minutes later. A busted head that need stitches and a bloody nose would not have been taken care of that quickly let alone a bloody nose. So his lying story is going to put him away. If medics did look at him, I bet the report is nothing was really was wrong with him and they just looked him over and gave the police the ok to take him in.

3. Trayvon's girlfriend call records the tape and on paper log shows Trayvon was scared and thought he was being followed by a stranger and shows that Trayvon was not the aggressor but a person to flee from danger and Zimmerman was the actual predator and self defense and stand your ground law Zimmerman can not use logically nor by law because he chased after the teen.

4, A witness said Zimmerman seemed to be ok and not hurt, I have that tape, that is damaging evidence against Zimmerman.

5. Zimmerman was perceived to the public as clean, meaning he had a clean record according to police which is a lie. This will show he has a violent history, plus there is a tape where his own friends say when they are out Zimmerman would snap. He assaulted a police officer so Zimmerman's credibility is shot!!!


Those are the key things that is going to send him to jail he is not getting off, the damming evidence is to strong against him. The police messed up also. He even looks bizarre when he enters the court like he is mentally disturbed. He is going to jail because if SYG really was the case for him and there were no holes in anything he said or the police he wouldn't have gotten arrested at all. IT'S GOING DOWN!!! There will be a guilty verdict

[Stavros]

Did you even read the article you linked me to? Dallas is now Texas? Lol, I like how you can break down a statement, focus on one detail (dallas is in texas), and then form your argument. I was speaking about Texas, and the mob never ran Texas. However, the mob sure as hell ran New York.

Also, since you fail to understand human psychology, most people use guns as a means for posturing. The average citizen doesn't want confrontation, the average citizen doesn't want to shoot anyone, the average citizen wants to live his life in peace. I have had numerous friends with a permit to carry pull their guns and defuse situations that could of gotten real bad, real fast. Keeping the guns out of the hands of the nutters? You're insane, you are probably the same person who wants to restrict guns based off of the Virginia Tech shooting yet don't even realize that the amount of people killed there is tripled every weekend in Philadelphia. There is more going on here than just guns!

I don't understand your reaction -the 'Mob' has been in Texas since the 1920s, which means your argument they had been absent because Texans carry guns and dont get pushed around by 'the mob' is nonsense. And even if it wasn't the mob, if you read LBJ's biography you won't consider Texan politics to be much cleaner.

How can I be insane to want guns taken away from people who are mentally disturbed, or who fall into a depression because of some family problem, or get high on drugs etc?? Sounds pretty reasonable to me -my point was that it is precisely nutters who do most damage; other than gang-related stuff.

Sticking to the thread then, maybe we should know how that Neighbourhood Watch was formed, if it had a policy agreed with the police about 'volunteers' carrying weapons -I don't know how the NW schemes work in the US but we have them in the UK also, obviously without guns, but probably with a few Columbos. And as I said before, because many people had moved out of that gated community, Zimmerman -or any other NW volunteer- would not have known many of the new people who moved in, or their friends and relatives visiting from another town, as Trayvon and his father were that weekend. It wasn't really a 'neighbourhood' in the conventional sense.

[yodajazz]

So, trish, you want to give free rein to the thugs who will ALWAYS tuck their weapons, but you want people in states that don't have an "open carry" law to get arrested? You are a typical liberal idiot that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.

You appear to be suffering from the same idiocy that old dupree has. Halitosis Homophiliosis is not a pretty condition.

This appears to me to be an example of fear based thinking. This type of thinking person bases a large part of their life on thinking about 'thugs'. So they are carrying a weapon, and looking out for potential situations. But the time you spend thinking about, them you are missing the other 99.whatever % of humanity. I see people holding doors when I am carrying bags out of the store, and I say thanks. I am at peace with most all of humanity. The weapon you carry for protection maybe more likely to cause a serious accident. Case in point: a close friend of mines neighbor 14 year old son, killed his 10 year brother, saying he was playing around with the weapon. Everyone remembers them as inseparable. So now the mother has one child dead and the other was placed in a juvenile facility, and may be mentally scarred for life. What was more important, protecting the television, or the children's lives? Homes are filled with potential things that could be used for protection, besde guns.

A criminal with any sense, would catch a person off guard, even if they had a weapon they wouldn't have time to use it. That's how it happened to me when I was robbed. The criminal would have ended up taking my gun if I had had one. Then he would have had two guns. I still walked to the store at night, after that. I was just more aware of others. I could have used that $2.50, I lost, but I'm ok. I purposely did not carry my wallet that night.

But back to my original statement. The 'protecting oneself from thugs' based lifestyle in based on fear. Ancient wisdom indentifies it as tool of Satan. Satan is in reality a personification of destructive thinking. Or another way, to say it as leading to bad judgement, which leads us down the wrong paths. And example of that; would be thinking that immature, emotionally and hormonally charged, college kids, without parental supervision, should be alloewed to carry guns to classes.

[trish]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120321152627.htm

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=gun-toting-increases-bias-to-see-gu-12-03-22

[jamesedwards]

@Stravos, NW training will tell each person:
1. Don't carry a weapon
2. Don't engage a person call the police and let them handle it.

So right there again Zimmerman's ass is in trouble, he can't use his training as a back up to why he did what he did, he carried a weapon because HE wanted to. Zimmerman's case is all messed up, he has not a leg to stand on. I know the Martins are going to sue the hell out of the police department.

[jamesedwards]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120321152627.htm

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=gun-toting-increases-bias-to-see-gu-12-03-22


Great dam articles!!!!

"A quarter of all police shootings involve unarmed suspects. In a few recent cases, officers mistook cell phones and hairbrushes for guns, and shot and killed the victims. "

Guess what Trish? A frew weeks ago a African american man and woman were walking and the African american man was holding a cell phone to his ear talking don't you know a stupid cop shot at the man who wasn't even a suspect, and while shooting hit an African american woman and she died. The man lived because he put his hand to his face which he was shot in the hand and brought reporters back to the spot where he was shot. now he is not locked up because he didn't commit a crime, this was in Chicago don't you know the police chief said it was justified? What the fuck!!! HOw can that be justified? How do you shoot a woman who is just walking by kill her who had nothing to do with nothing and call that justified? To me this is worse than Trayvon case. This has got to stop.

[yodajazz]

Hey idiot, zimmermans assessment on martins looks ,was because he was asked by the 9/11 operator what he looked like, nbc tried to alter the conversation and insert racist undertones into what was said by zimmerman and they were rumbled,and a someone high up in that network who has been kept anon has been fired.

Obama ,as in other cases has jumped the gun without knowing the full facts. Basically because he is a cynical politician not because he identifies at all with martin or other african americans. Obama had a very privilaged upbringing and does not give a shit about them. He prefers the company of blonde thirty something white ex american football players, but that is another conversation.

And where did I say I didn't want zimmerman in jail,I told you what I think of him. Whatever his true intent I think he should be locked up for being a fucking idiot at least who killed someone. I don't even like the stand your ground law as I think it encourages cop freaks like him to act like serpico .In my view zimmerman should have been arrested and processed through the court system straight away. He took a life on the street and should not have been walking free for weeks. I also think it is wise to reserve some judgement on what happened that night until it goes to court but I doubt some here will as they seem to have been present that night and seen and heard it all with their own eyes. Because the media notoriously has made and is making mistakes about who said and did what.

Hold this thought, if the races were reversed and we had a black neighbourhood watch person with a cop fetish believing he is shaft, and a mixed raced young man who ended up dead, the race hustlers would probably be screaming self defence if they made a comment at all. Would obozo be jumping in before the court case I wonder to give us all the benefit of his wisdom, and the media altering 9/11 tapes?

If you think that the whole incident should be investigated more thouroughly, then you and I are in agreement. Apparently now the Florida legal, thinks so too. Perhaps evidence will come out to support his some of his claims. Perhaps some of the 'facts' we have heard in the media are not true. But most are curious to find out what is really true or not. I heard that in one previous month he called the police 46 times. Sounds like someone, who was looking for trouble, if this is true. Zimmerman should self checked himself and left his gun at home.

A much more sensible approach, would have just been to speak to Trayvon, in a friendly, non-confrontational way. If in fact, Martin was casing out places for criminal activity, he would know that Zimmerman may hve been able to clearly identify as a potential perpetrator, if a burglary had taken place at a later time. Our local newspaper, put a story of a neighborhood watch person who used that technique.

If the situation was reversed racially, I believe most people of color would still like it to be thouroughy investigated. There are enough crazy people in the neighborhood these days, so supicious circumstances should be checked out.

[jamesedwards]

A much more sensible approach, would have just been to speak to Trayvon, in a friendly, non-confrontational way.

How about Zimmerman not ENGAGING TRAYVON AT ALL like the dispatcher said not to? why do we keep giving Zimmerman the lead that he should of talked to Trayvon this or that way when he shouldn't have never approached Tray in the first place. No confrontation means there wouldn't have been a killing on Zimmerman's part. Zimmerman is not the police, he isn't the law he is nothing but a self proclaimed neighborhood watchmen captain. The only thing Zimmerman did was call police everything after that was stupidity on his part. This was a brutal murder and he needs to do time for it and he will then have al the precious time to think about what he did.

We know for a fact and it's indisputable, he killed A CHILD!!! for no dam reason, that's the absolute truth. The child was going to the store to get skittles and ice tea, coming back to where his father's girlfriend lived and to be approached by some wanna be hero cop that took his life for no apparent reason.

[jamesedwards]

The two most important facts are Zimmerman's phone call and was told not to engage and that girlfriend of Trayvon. It shows that Trayvon was scared of being followed and shows that Zimmerman is the aggressor!!! He is going to fucking jail!!!

[Odelay]

This appears to me to be an example of fear based thinking. This type of thinking person bases a large part of their life on thinking about 'thugs'. So they are carrying a weapon, and looking out for potential situations. But the time you spend thinking about, them you are missing the other 99.whatever % of humanity. I see people holding doors when I am carrying bags out of the store, and I say thanks. I am at peace with most all of humanity. The weapon you carry for protection maybe more likely to cause a serious accident. Case in point: a close friend of mines neighbor 14 year old son, killed his 10 year brother, saying he was playing around with the weapon. Everyone remembers them as inseparable. So now the mother has one child dead and the other was placed in a juvenile facility, and may be mentally scarred for life. What was more important, protecting the television, or the children's lives? Homes are filled with potential things that could be used for protection, besde guns.

A criminal with any sense, would catch a person off guard, even if they had a weapon they wouldn't have time to use it. That's how it happened to me when I was robbed. The criminal would have ended up taking my gun if I had had one. Then he would have had two guns. I still walked to the store at night, after that. I was just more aware of others. I could have used that $2.50, I lost, but I'm ok. I purposely did not carry my wallet that night.

But back to my original statement. The 'protecting oneself from thugs' based lifestyle in based on fear. Ancient wisdom indentifies it as tool of Satan. Satan is in reality a personification of destructive thinking. Or another way, to say it as leading to bad judgement, which leads us down the wrong paths. And example of that; would be thinking that immature, emotionally and hormonally charged, college kids, without parental supervision, should be alloewed to carry guns to classes.

Hey Yoda, just want to say that this is the most sensible post in this entire thread. Thanks.

BTW, the story about an adolescent kid accidentally killing his brother with a gun is way more common than people realize. I know two individuals who shot and killed their brothers at an early age. One is still pretty effed up by the experience. The other has a Masters degree and teaches kids with disabilities... a brilliant and compassionate person

[hippifried]

I was listening to NPR this morning & it was stated that Florida has moved to the top of the list for gun deaths per capita across the US since they enacted their shoot first "Stand your ground" law. Ain't that special?

In the same conversation, there came up something called the "Zimmerman vigilante law". It was prsented to the Congress by Wayne la Pierre, just 2 days after the Florida incident, (I guess old Wayne's clairvoyant too) & would extend SYG & concealed carry to all 50 states as a federal statute. They said It already passed the House & is sitting in the Senate right now. Oh boy!

So... If anybody's actually read any of the SYG laws, or the Florida shoot first law in particular, I have a question: Is it just guns, specifically, that are covered by the law, or the use of violence in general? Are you covered using a knife to open up your attacker like a can of beans? How about cracking the threat's skull by picking up a brick? Where do fists come into play?

[yourdaddy]

You wanna know what's really scary? Trayvon was one of the cream of the crop. He had a father at home. After 4 generations of welfare mothers, no fathers at home, and about 75% of black births coming from baby-mamas, America is in a world of shit.

This goes for that sad excuse for a President that we have too.

[Odelay]

You wanna know what's really scary? Trayvon was one of the cream of the crop. He had a father at home. After 4 generations of welfare mothers, no fathers at home, and about 75% of black births coming from baby-mamas, America is in a world of shit.

This goes for that sad excuse for a President that we have too.
LMAO, you're a redneck cracker, like me. Don't try looking hip by using a term like baby-mama. Makes you look pretty stupid.

[yourdaddy]

LMAO, you're a redneck cracker, like me. Don't try looking hip by using a term like baby-mama. Makes you look pretty stupid.

You're wrong red-neck. I am a very proud fifth generation Florida Cracker and evidently, you don't know or can't tell the difference. We arrived here in 1636 from Scotland after an ancestor killed his Laird. Other ancestors and my family and I have fought in the Revolutionary, War and every war since then.

I was shown the light at the age of 15 by a older black friend who taught me the subleties of Scotch vs. Southern Comfort. I have dated more than a few black girls of every stripe.

I have been paying attention to social problems and am not afraid to say what I see.

Don't call me a red-neck.

[runningdownthatdream]

You're wrong red-neck. I am a very proud fifth generation Florida Cracker and evidently, you don't know or can't tell the difference. We arrived here in 1636 from Scotland after an ancestor killed his Laird. Other ancestors fought in the Revolutionary, War and every war since then.

I was shown the light at 16 by a black friend who taught me the subleties of Scotch vs. Southern Comfort. I have dated more than a few black girls of every stripe. Don't call me a red-neck.

Wolf in sheep's clothing then? I warn black people about your kind.............I can smell you from a distance........you're 'down with the homeboys' while in your heart you harbor contempt. The worst kind of human being and unfortunately you've attached yourself to a people who never look below the surface and into the hearts of men. They're content to accept you at face value.

[yourdaddy]

Boy... is that a bunch of bull shit.

[buttslinger]

Boy... is that a bunch of bull shit.

What are the official Cracker talking points on Hispanics?

[yourdaddy]

Mexicans and Cubans make wonderful Americans. They want to work for a living and not take a handout.

[Odelay]

I've dated 3 different black chicks in my life. Are you telling me I can turn in my redneck papers? Woo hoo! Didn't know that was the criteria.

[yourdaddy]

It's a start.

Love your avatar.

[yourdaddy]

By the damn way. Anyone who starts a thread on an international forum that says

"17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia",


oughta be strung up by his BB sized cojones. El es nada pero un pendejo.

[Willie Escalade]

Look what can happen when one stands their ground.

http://moorbey.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/marissa-alexander-stood-her-ground-no-one-was-injured-or-murdered-she-faces-25-years-in-prison/

[Stavros]

Look what can happen when one stands their ground.

http://moorbey.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/marissa-alexander-stood-her-ground-no-one-was-injured-or-murdered-she-faces-25-years-in-prison/

What the Alexander case seems to argue is that it is to the shooter's advantage to kill their 'assailant' and then claim self-defence rather than injure or fire a warning shot! Precisely because she fired a warning shot, this was taken to imply she had other options, that her own life was not in imminent danger: she could have jumped out the window of the bedroom according to the judge (!) -her husband had a history of violence against her but was he going to 'give her a slap' or kill her? She obviously admitted she had a gun and fired it, and the jury took 13 minutes to reach a verdict: this is where the letter of the law is preferred over the more subtle issues of 'intent' and the different moral positions of Alexander and her husband. Morally, she is clearly the victim of an outrageous miscarriage of justice -but isn't this just another desperately sad example of how the trial situation itself is so poor in the USA? Had she actually shot and killed her husband in a state that doesn't have SYG laws, wouldn't she now be on Death Row?

Something wrong with your police, your courts, and your laws!! -And no I am not saying its superior in the UK.

[GroobySteven]

Neighbourhood Watch- Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgLXIt4gJQo)

[jamesedwards]

I was shown the light at the age of 15 by a older black friend who taught me the subleties of Scotch vs. Southern Comfort. I have dated more than a few black girls of every stripe.

I have been paying attention to social problems and am not afraid to say what I see.

Don't call me a red-neck.

Oh So you'are a Mason huh? Shown the light through the boy scouts then through a Fraternity and became a Free Mason of the Scottish Rite huh?

[jamesedwards]

Look what can happen when one stands their ground.

http://moorbey.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/marissa-alexander-stood-her-ground-no-one-was-injured-or-murdered-she-faces-25-years-in-prison/

Thank you for that article. a man in New York went through the same thing, he was African american a Caucasian entered his house to rob him, the man killed the robber in SELF DEFENSE. Make a long story short THE AFRICAN AMERICAN IS DOING TIME BECAUSE OF A CAUCASIAN MAN ENTERING HIS HOME AND THE AA STOOD UP TO PROTECT HIS FAMILY AND HOME.

Now that is crazy how the guy gets time and it was surely definite this man tried to rob him and maybe hurt his family yet he gets time. Zimmerman should go to jail if not there is going to be some shit because Marrisa and this man who happen to be DARK gets time.

[jamesedwards]

They said the put a cap on that movie because of the Trayvon case and it's to sensitive. I agree I can't even go watch that movie after what has happened to Trayvon because there is no laughter. This thing is nationwide.



Neighbourhood Watch- Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgLXIt4gJQo)

[natina]

zimmerman weeping in jail


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories


Another analyst came to a similar conclusion using different technology.

The voice analysis is the latest piece of information to cast doubt on the narrative, advanced by Zimmerman and his family, that the Neighborhood Watch volunteer was attacked by 17-year-old Travyon Martin. A police video this week showed no blood or bruises on Zimmerman in the aftermath of the incident, while Martin's funeral director said he saw no signs of a struggle on the teen's body.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-screams_n_1394224.html

[natina]

He didn't appear hurt or anything else."


Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- Someone has stepped up, reporting to have witnessed last month's shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old whose death has sparked nationwide controversy. The witness detailed to CNN the Florida incident from what initially sounded like an argument to its fatal conclusion.

"It would have to be starting with hearing voices, but not seeing, and then, after the voices, opening a window and then seeing -- with two men or two people on the ground, one on top of each other," the witness, who has asked not to be identified, even by gender, told CNN's Anderson Cooper about the February 26 incident in a gated community in Sanford, Florida.

The witness reported hearing through a closed window voices from an area where residents typically walk their dogs. "I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window because it had just started pouring out rain," the witness said. "And then I thought, 'Oh, my gosh, who's out there walking their dog in the rain?' "

But the witness did not immediately look outside to see what the commotion was about, according to the account. "I went and did something else, and then I heard the loud voices again," said the witness, who reported opening the window. "It definitely was a very loud, predominant voice," the witness said. "I couldn't hear the words but it was like, OK, this is not a regular conversation. This is someone aggressively, you know, yelling at someone."

Within a couple of seconds after the shots, one of the men "was walking toward where I was watching, and I could see him a little bit clearer. Could see that it was a Hispanic man. He didn't appear hurt or anything else."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[natina]

stand your ground law does not protect zimmerman

Author and NRA member Dave Kopel says Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iid=article_sidebar#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/30/exp-point-kopel-one.cnn

[natina]

Zimmerman makes court appearance

Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-12/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-charged-jail-20120412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident

[jamesedwards]

Thank you Natina for bringing us all up to speed in a natural order that was profoundly done.
Zimmerman with all the facts piled against him is going down and the Martins will win their law suit against the Sanford Police Dept.





Zimmerman makes court appearance

Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-12/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-charged-jail-20120412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident

[jamesedwards]

There's no doubt that Zimmerman is going to jail he admitted doing the crime and self defense with the evidence against is not going to fly.

[jamesedwards]

Gotta ask you a Question was her husband White? Or African american?


Look what can happen when one stands their ground.

http://moorbey.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/marissa-alexander-stood-her-ground-no-one-was-injured-or-murdered-she-faces-25-years-in-prison/

[Willie Escalade]

Gotta ask you a Question was her husband White? Or African american?

Don't know...:confused:

[jamesedwards]

Don't know...:confused:

Hmmmmmm I find it real suspicious I didn't see her husband yet they got a pic of her. Hmmmmm that's deep I am going to look into that.

[south ov da border]

2nd degree isn't going to fly, but they will get the lesser included manslaughter. I'm sure of it

[prettyboy5]

It's funny how you whites (not all) can just look at another man's skin and assume that he is on welfare. Both of my parents have been working their butts off since they were teens, and they both have college degrees.
I'm pretty sure our family makes more money annually than your average "master race" family.

[yourdaddy]

Sounds like a pretty guilty conscience to me.

[jamesedwards]

Man slaughter? I doubt that because there is evidence that he went after Trayvon. He intended to kill him. Man slaughter would be like if he was chasing Trayvon and Trayvon got hit by a car because Zimmerman was chasing him. Zimmerman wouldn't have actually killed him but was the cause of Trayvon getting killed, so 2nd degree is right where it is.


2nd degree isn't going to fly, but they will get the lesser included manslaughter. I'm sure of it

[jamesedwards]

But if Caucasians look at African americans skin complexion and think they are on public assistance, then they should look at themselves, statistically Caucasians are on public assistance more than anyone. So if some do that then that's their ignorance calling because I am sure if they knew the statistics I am sure they would stop that.


It's funny how you whites (not all) can just look at another man's skin and assume that he is on welfare. Both of my parents have been working their butts off since they were teens, and they both have college degrees.
I'm pretty sure our family makes more money annually than your average "master race" family.

[yodajazz]

Mexicans and Cubans make wonderful Americans. They want to work for a living and not take a handout.
Hey guess what? The vast majority of all people on earth, will do what it takes to survive, and also take advantage of things the system provides for their sruvival. Very few people, who lose their jobs, for example, will kill themselves and their entire family. The more loving way, would be to accept some kind of government asisstance to help the children survive. In nations with less of a safety net, the family might sell a daughter into prostitution or teach the kids to panhandle. Selling illegal drugs on the street, is a hard and often dangerous job. And they are not taking a handout. But they end up with prison records and then are bared from ever having legitmate jobs. In some states, (like Florida) they can no longer vote.

There is an element that profits from keeping us divided, and scared of one another. That way you wont notice that your rights and dignity are being stolen. People accept certain things now, that would have not been acceptable to earlier generations, like employers have the right to examine your body fluids and take hair samples, or that a company has the right, to penalize you, if you no longer wish to use thier product (i.e. cell phones), or that your public sports facility has declared water fountains, a health hazzard, so that the majority of people will buy thier bottled water.

They also profit greatly from you admiring people, for coming in an accepting substandard wages and living conditions. Thus making it easier to bring down everyone's wages, and greater profits for the ownership class. Jobs that used to support families, and build suburban communites, are now done by day laborers with no benefits. They cant afford homes, cars or other big ticket goods, available in healthy economies. I guess what it takes to be a "wonderful American" these days, is not to ask for rights, benefits, or decent working conditions.

[giovanni_hotel]

Great post, yoda.

[jamesedwards]

Great dam post!!!! You wrote Yoda.

There's a grand scheme in things since Martin L. King sign the civil rights act to credit cards, to over paid interest on homes, to Bush going into a war that wasn't suppose to happen spending 80million a month to 911 which was an inside job to people losing their jobs and having to now work for peanuts as a modern day slavery. The Institution Industrial Complex to having more African Americans in jail and this is a fact etc, I can go deep into this these are the things that have been happening over the past 30 years.


Hey guess what? The vast majority of all people on earth, will do what it takes to survive, and also take advantage of things the system provides for their sruvival. Very few people, who lose their jobs, for example, will kill themselves and their entire family. The more loving way, would be to accept some kind of government asisstance to help the children survive. In nations with less of a safety net, the family might sell a daughter into prostitution or teach the kids to panhandle. Selling illegal drugs on the street, is a hard and often dangerous job. And they are not taking a handout. But they end up with prison records and then are bared from ever having legitmate jobs. In some states, (like Florida) they can no longer vote.

There is an element that profits from keeping us divided, and scared of one another. That way you wont notice that your rights and dignity are being stolen. People accept certain things now, that would have not been acceptable to earlier generations, like employers have the right to examine your body fluids and take hair samples, or that a company has the right, to penalize you, if you no longer wish to use thier product (i.e. cell phones), or that your public sports facility has declared water fountains, a health hazzard, so that the majority of people will buy thier bottled water.

They also profit greatly from you admiring people, for coming in an accepting substandard wages and living conditions. Thus making it easier to bring down everyone's wages, and greater profits for the ownership class. Jobs that used to support families, and build suburban communites, are now done by day laborers with no benefits. They cant afford homes, cars or other big ticket goods, available in healthy economies. I guess what it takes to be a "wonderful American" these days, is not to ask for rights, benefits, or decent working conditions.

[Stavros]

Try Michelle Alexander's study The New Jim Crow

Amazon.com: The New Jim Crow (9781595586438): Michelle Alexander, Cornel West: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lILnrBZ3L.@@AMEPARAM@@51lILnrBZ3L (http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Michelle-Alexander/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334770248&sr=8-1)

[jamesedwards]

Nice catch Stavros, see just because we like sex don't mean we are not aware what the hell is going on around us and how crooked this govt is from police dept all the way up to congress!!!

Thank you Stavros. I will get that book.

"In the era of colorblindness, it is no longer socially permissible to use race, explicitly, as a justification for discrimination, exclusion, and social contempt. Yet, as legal star Michelle Alexander reveals, today it is perfectly legal to discriminate against convicted criminals in nearly all the ways that it was once legal to discriminate against African Americans. Once you’re labeled a felon, the old forms of discrimination—employment discrimination, housing discrimination, denial of the right to vote, denial of educational opportunity, denial of food stamps and other public benefits, and exclusion from jury service—are suddenly legal."



Try Michelle Alexander's study The New Jim Crow

Amazon.com: The New Jim Crow (9781595586438): Michelle Alexander, Cornel West: Books (http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Michelle-Alexander/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334770248&sr=8-1)

[trish]

Hey guess what? The vast majority of all people on earth, will do what it takes to survive, and also take advantage of things the system provides for their sruvival. Very few people, who lose their jobs, for example, will kill themselves and their entire family. The more loving way, would be to accept some kind of government asisstance to help the children survive. In nations with less of a safety net, the family might sell a daughter into prostitution or teach the kids to panhandle. Selling illegal drugs on the street, is a hard and often dangerous job. And they are not taking a handout. But they end up with prison records and then are bared from ever having legitmate jobs. In some states, (like Florida) they can no longer vote.

There is an element that profits from keeping us divided, and scared of one another. That way you wont notice that your rights and dignity are being stolen. People accept certain things now, that would have not been acceptable to earlier generations, like employers have the right to examine your body fluids and take hair samples, or that a company has the right, to penalize you, if you no longer wish to use thier product (i.e. cell phones), or that your public sports facility has declared water fountains, a health hazzard, so that the majority of people will buy thier bottled water.

They also profit greatly from you admiring people, for coming in an accepting substandard wages and living conditions. Thus making it easier to bring down everyone's wages, and greater profits for the ownership class. Jobs that used to support families, and build suburban communites, are now done by day laborers with no benefits. They cant afford homes, cars or other big ticket goods, available in healthy economies. I guess what it takes to be a "wonderful American" these days, is not to ask for rights, benefits, or decent working conditions.:claps:claps:claps:claps:claps

[jamesedwards]

A set bail of $150,000 is set for Zimmerman. He will wear an ankle monitor and can chose to be out of state for safety reasons but law enforcement has to be aware and he has a curfew. New Update.

[yodajazz]

Great dam post!!!! You wrote Yoda.

There's a grand scheme in things since Martin L. King sign the civil rights act to credit cards, to over paid interest on homes, to Bush going into a war that wasn't suppose to happen spending 80million a month to 911 which was an inside job to people losing their jobs and having to now work for peanuts as a modern day slavery. The Institution Industrial Complex to having more African Americans in jail and this is a fact etc, I can go deep into this these are the things that have been happening over the past 30 years.

Thanks for the compliments! Here's a fact I ran across today. Since 1980, the state of California has built one new college campus, compared to building 21 new prisons. In 2011 California spend 5+ billion on higher education, compared to 9+ billions on prisons.
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/zakaria-incarceration-nation-2/?hpt=hp_c1

Here in Ohio, there was a state plan to sell several state built prisons to privately run corporations. However, if did drop down to one. I read somewhere that the corporation buying the prison, was requesting a guarunteed 90% occupancy rate.

Minor related trivia. As I was filling my tire with air (cost $0.75), I read the posting on the machine. It said that putting foriegn coins or slugs in any vending machine was both a federal and a state crime. The federal punishment is up to 1 year in jail and/or a $5,000 fine. I wonder what such an offender would say, to others on the cell block, when they were asked, why they were locked up?

[jamesedwards]

Here's new Photo of Zimmerman's head two small gashes that are not serious if they were he would of went to the hospital not end up in a police station 30 minutes later. the Police didn't see these as life threatening. Some thing fishy is going on here.

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic-photo-possible-evidence-shows-george-zimmermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

[jamesedwards]

Wow so if caught you do time for .75cents in foreign money? So it goes from .75cents to $5,000 dollars? That is pure madness.

One college compared to 21 new prisons? Yeah you see where their energy lies, and they will set that up so people can go to jail. Take away jobs, then what else to turn to? See it's all a set up. No one in their fucking right might can justify this treachery this govt is on. They find it better to make more money with the prison than to educate people and help send that money to make jobs.


Thanks for the compliments! Here's a fact I ran across today. Since 1980, the state of California has built one new college campus, compared to building 21 new prisons. In 2011 California spend 5+ billion on higher education, compared to 9+ billions on prisons.
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/zakaria-incarceration-nation-2/?hpt=hp_c1

Here in Ohio, there was a state plan to sell several state built prisons to privately run corporations. However, if did drop down to one. I read somewhere that the corporation buying the prison, was requesting a guarunteed 90% occupancy rate.

Minor related trivia. As I was filling my tire with air (cost $0.75), I read the posting on the machine. It said that putting foriegn coins or slugs in any vending machine was both a federal and a state crime. The federal punishment is up to 1 year in jail and/or a $5,000 fine. I wonder what such an offender would say, to others on the cell block, when they were asked, why they were locked up?

[south ov da border]

I appreciate the direction that this thread has taken...

[south ov da border]

"...they say it takes 5 thousand to educate, 30 thousand to incarcerate..."

This quote shows where the focus of the people who run this country is. It is all a big kickback scheme. Laws are slanted to incarcerate people for things that silly and downright unfair. And it's a kickback scheme to get these private facilities built and filled, while at the same time more laws and things are being created to put people in jails. And the whole concept of student loans is crazy because they keep raising tuition while eliminating jobs ensuring that these loans can't be paid back. 40 years ago you could have a job out of high school, make it a career and live comfortably if you wanted to. Now you can have a college degree and be stuck at minimum wage. It's crazy.

[south ov da border]

and you can't discharge a student loan by claiming bankruptcy. It's all a scam...

[runningdownthatdream]

"...they say it takes 5 thousand to educate, 30 thousand to incarcerate..."

This quote shows where the focus of the people who run this country is. It is all a big kickback scheme. Laws are slanted to incarcerate people for things that silly and downright unfair. And it's a kickback scheme to get these private facilities built and filled, while at the same time more laws and things are being created to put people in jails. And the whole concept of student loans is crazy because they keep raising tuition while eliminating jobs ensuring that these loans can't be paid back. 40 years ago you could have a job out of high school, make it a career and live comfortably if you wanted to. Now you can have a college degree and be stuck at minimum wage. It's crazy.

I came across this a few days ago:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/punishment-profits-immigration-detention/

[natina]

George Zimmerman, 28, could be released on bond but getting the money has proved difficult for his family. NBC’s Kerry Sanders reports


from florida tonight, an update in the trayvon martin case, and the man accused of murdering him. carey sanders is in sanford, florida, with the latest. carey?
>> reporter: good evening, lester. george zimmerman remains in jail here tonight. his lawyer says that the 28-year-old's family has found it more complicated to secure the $150,000 bond than they first anticipated. he still could get out of jail tonight, or his lawyer says as late as wednesday. when he gets out, it's expected he will go into hiding. then he's going to have to come right back here at the end of next month for his arraignment. according to his attorney, he is going to be back for his arraignment, then go back into hiding. the process, they believe, for a trial could be more than a year away. while he is out, they anticipate the sheriff will track his every moment with an ankle monitor that is hooked up to a gps, so they know where he is at every moment. trayvon martin's family said that they oppose the bond, but they respect the system. the system that gave a bond to george zimmerman who is not convicted of a crime. lester?

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/47136215/#47136215

[mildcigar_2001]

To the twit that started this entire thread, both you and the media jumped on the white guy shoots the 17 year old because he was black bandwagon.

Please look at the cases background (please note from Reuters not Fox News):

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Puts things in a little different light, doesn't it. Why it matters is that this entire ginned up racial motive is ending up in real racial violence, and I won't be surpised if we won't have a repeat of the LA riots (perhaps in Miami) before this thing is done with.

[natina]

that kid TRAVON MARTIN WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG or illegal and he had a hoodie on cause it was raining

Zimmerman raised more than $200,000 through his website....
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/26/tonight-on-ac360-zimmerman-raised-over-200000-in-website/

[giovanni_hotel]

To the twit that started this entire thread, both you and the media jumped on the white guy shoots the 17 year old because he was black bandwagon.

Please look at the cases background (please note from Reuters not Fox News):

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Puts things in a little different light, doesn't it. Why it matters is that this entire ginned up racial motive is ending up in real racial violence, and I won't be surpised if we won't have a repeat of the LA riots (perhaps in Miami) before this thing is done with.

Nice puff piece by a friend of the family,( notice how it never addresses ANY of Zimmerman's arrests), but not of that crap has anything to do with Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman chased after this kid. On the 911 call, Zimmerman even said, 'he's running.'

I don't give two shits about this asshole. And I hope you donated your weekly paycheck cigar to this pussy's legal defense fund.
When you shoot an unarmed teen who's walking back to his father's condo, you don't get the benefit of the doubt for being stupid.

There's plenty of idiots wasting away in prison, which is where Zimmerman belongs.

When you decide to walk around with a loaded firearm, you take responsibility for your actions when that firearm is unholstered.

[trish]

To the racist who calls people twits, the OP and others are outraged that a armed, self-appointed neighborhood vigilante can stalk (against police instructions), shoot a unarmed boy dead and not be arrested, not have his gun confiscated, nor face a judge nor a jury simply because the perp, without corroborative evidence, says it was self-defense. Stand your ground laws are fucked up and that's story enough itself. But you're right, it's not the whole story because the obvious racism underlying Zimmerman's conception of suspicious behavior in the context of a gated neighborhood is the direct cause of this outrageous vigilante shooting.

We don't need to see Zimmerman found guilty, but if he doesn't at least appear before a judge and a jury, then we don't live in a land of laws that apply equally to everyone.

[Cecil Rhodes]

Enough already ....... where is Sammi ? I wanna flirt some more . I can even go back to tinychat and make Adriana fall out of her chair laughing .

[Cecil Rhodes]

That's Tatiana i mean .... sorry nice lady .

[mildcigar_2001]

To the racist who calls people twits, the OP and others are outraged that a armed, self-appointed neighborhood vigilante can stalk (against police instructions), shoot a unarmed boy dead and not be arrested, not have his gun confiscated, nor face a judge nor a jury simply because the perp, without corroborative evidence, says it was self-defense. Stand your ground laws are fucked up and that's story enough itself. But you're right, it's not the whole story because the obvious racism underlying Zimmerman's conception of suspicious behavior in the context of a gated neighborhood is the direct cause of this outrageous vigilante shooting.

We don't need to see Zimmerman found guilty, but if he doesn't at least appear before a judge and a jury, then we don't live in a land of laws that apply equally to everyone.

"Trish X" are you are just another race hustler like Al Sharpton that is trying ignore the evidence? At least Al Sharpton is making a little cash out of his outrage. Why are you ignoring the facts? From the evidence that is available it appears that the thug Treyvon was pounding Zimmerman's head into the cement when he got himself shot. This is another case like the Duke Rape case where everyone made up their minds about who was guilty and didn't let the facts get in the way.

By the way why is if all the burglaries in the neighborhood are being committed by young black males, why is it racist to be suspious of an unfamilar black boy walking around the neighborhood? Even Jesse Jackson is happier to see a white face when he is walking down the street at night.

[buttslinger]

why is it racist to be suspious of an unfamilar black boy walking around the neighborhood?.

Did you say your Dad was a judge or something?

[trish]

"Mildcigar Goebbels", where the fuck am I making any assumptions about what went down. Haven't I merely said a zillion times that I'll be happy to see Zimmerman stand trail. If there's evidence that exonerates him, let's hear it in court. If there's evidence there's evidence that nails his ass, let's hear it in court. This notion that we should just let Zimmerman go on his say so is bullshit.

[nonnonnon]

it remeinds me of the trick or treater asian exchange student shot and killed in LA a few yrs ago...the shooter got off.

white male
16 year old unarmed minority
dressed in a tuxedo instead of 'thug attire'
laughing instead of bashing the shooter's head
shooter didn't call the police unlike zimmerman
paid a large $ settlement instead of treated like a serial killer
no prize put on his head
wasn't publicly condemned by the president

I'm trying to understand why these cases are so similar and yet so different :confused:
Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori)

[natina]

LATE BREAKING NEWS! ZIMMERMAN WILL PROBABLY BE REMANDED BACK TO JAIL because of the $200,000.00+ he got from donations


that kid TRAVON MARTIN WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG or illegal and he had a hoodie on cause it was raining

Zimmerman raised more than $200,000 through his website....
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/26/tonight-on-ac360-zimmerman-raised-over-200000-in-website/

[yodajazz]

white male
16 year old unarmed minority
dressed in a tuxedo instead of 'thug attire'
laughing instead of bashing the shooter's head
shooter didn't call the police unlike zimmerman
paid a large $ settlement instead of treated like a serial killer
no prize put on his head
wasn't publicly condemned by the president

I'm trying to understand why these cases are so similar and yet so different :confused:
Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori)

Was there any evidence the President at that time was asked a specific question about the case? So the people who put a price on someone's, rather than let the force of legal justice prevail, are stupid. Groups of people all over the world, have made stupid mistakes. I fail to see how starting wars which killed over 50 million people total, was a good idea. But I dont hold it against them. Its a history lesson. Asians have suffered from discrimination, but how many Asians in the US were burnt and hung on a tree, with a group of White folks standing around proudly, for the photograph? How about 10+ being murdering by a crowd, upon just returning from serving in a war? Still I see such group acts, as not extending to an entire race of people.
Each case has unique elements.

Still I wonder about, hearing that Zimmerman called the police 40+ times, in one month. Then I heard that all those call were about Black persons. If this is true, sounds like he could have put his self in a state a paranoia, and went out to cause confrontation. It was aginst the rules of his duties to carry a weapon. Whether that state of mind could rise to the degree of 2nd degree murder, I cant say. But I could see it as something that was an important causal factor, in someone's death, for which he deserves some accountabilty. Which qusetions like these, the public deserves to have more questions answered. Injuries could be faked in a flash of a second. So what is forensic evidence going to say? Entry wounds, and powder residue, are used as evidence. The miscarriage of justice, was that he was presumed innocent. Now we have a trial. Trayvonn's parents, as American citizens have the right, to get a more in-depth, examination/hearing of why their unarmed, son died; and not just take the word of the man who admitted killing him. What's so difficult to understand about this? The we have people attacking others, for simply raising questions. Mother-fuck that "race hustling' term. Like people dont have legitimate greivances. I dont even need to put a category or race to that. Sensitve, and intelligent people understand that the world could be a more just place, for many types of people.

[giovanni_hotel]

white male
16 year old unarmed minority
dressed in a tuxedo instead of 'thug attire'
laughing instead of bashing the shooter's head
shooter didn't call the police unlike zimmerman
paid a large $ settlement instead of treated like a serial killer
no prize put on his head
wasn't publicly condemned by the president

I'm trying to understand why these cases are so similar and yet so different :confused:
Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori)

What the hell is 'thug attire'??
Man some of you guys are so intent on turning Trayvon into some gangbanger.
It was RAINING. He had his hood up.
Let's not forget which one was arrested for assaulting a police officer AND had a restraining order placed on him by his wife.

There is no bounty on George Zimmerman's head. The 'New' Black Panther Party is not a real organization. They co-opted the name of the militant organization from the 1960s, but they are so far from that. Wannabes.

SYG is a horrible law and will be the issue really on trial once Zimmerman goes before a jury.

I still don't get how you can actively pursue someone in your car and on foot and reasonably claim self defense. Trayvon was aware that Zimmerman was following him almost the minute he entered the gated community.

And I'd slow down before people jump on the bandwagon about the authenticity of that bloody Zimmerman photo.
Either the EMT on the scene were totally incompetent, they didn't apply a single bandage to Zimmerman's head.
Or someone is trying to sell the idea that Zimmerman was gravely wounded when he actually wasn't.

I can't wait to hear the testimony of the EMT who treated Zimmerman's injuries.

[natina]

O'Mara believed Zimmerman had no money.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said Zimmerman's failure to reveal that he had the money shows that he is being dishonest.

"If his testimony at the bond hearing is any indication of what is to come, then the lying has already begun," Crump said.

"This is going to say a lot about whether Trayvon Martin can get a fair trial," he told Burnett. "If he (Lester) doesn't revoke his bond, the court should severely sanction him so George Zimmerman understands you cannot lie to the court."

Separately, the attorney said the Martin family has raised less than $100,000 in fund-raising efforts to date, and that the money collected will go toward the Trayvon Martin Foundation.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/27/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

[natina]

zimmerman caught in another lie says witness



Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim

A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed "in cold blood" by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, an attorney for Martin's family said Tuesday.

The girl, who was dating the 17-year-old, "completely blows Zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water," lawyer Benjamin Crump told reporters.

The girl -- who he said does not wish to be identified -- "connects the dots" about what happened that day when she lays out what she overheard while on the phone with him, he said.

Martin was fatally shot on February 26 while walking to the house of his father's fiancee in Sanford after a trip to a nearby convenience store.

Speaking on the phone shortly before he was shot, Martin told the girl that someone was following him and that he was trying to get away, Crump said.

Witnesses describe Florida teen shooting

How Fla. law affects Trayvon Martin case
The girl said that, during the phone call, she heard someone ask Martin what he was doing and heard Martin ask why the person was following him, Crump said. The girl then got the impression that there was an altercation in which the earpiece fell out of Martin's ear and the connection went dead, Crump said.

Based on what she heard, the girl believes that Martin was pushed, said Crump, who added that the girl did not hear any gunfire.

Phone records show Martin was on the phone with her much of the day, including around the time of the killing, Crump said. He argued that if Martin were really "up to no good," he wouldn't have been chatting with his friend on the phone.

The girl said Martin was "his regular self," Crump said, arguing that any suggestions that the boy was "high" are "preposterous."

"It's what Zimmerman wants you to believe so he can justify killing this kid in cold blood," Crump said.

police had not interviewed the girl.

Morgenstern said Martin's cell phone was collected from the crime scene and investigators were working to acquire records associated with the phone's use.

Justice Department, FBI to investigate Florida teen's death
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?iref=obinsite


O'Mara believed Zimmerman had no money.

Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said Zimmerman's failure to reveal that he had the money shows that he is being dishonest.

"If his testimony at the bond hearing is any indication of what is to come, then the lying has already begun," Crump said.

"This is going to say a lot about whether Trayvon Martin can get a fair trial," he told Burnett. "If he (Lester) doesn't revoke his bond, the court should severely sanction him so George Zimmerman understands you cannot lie to the court."

Separately, the attorney said the Martin family has raised less than $100,000 in fund-raising efforts to date, and that the money collected will go toward the Trayvon Martin Foundation.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/27/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

[natina]

BUMP this thread




zimmerman caught in another lie says witness





Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim


A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed "in cold blood" by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, an attorney for Martin's family said Tuesday.


The girl, who was dating the 17-year-old, "completely blows Zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water," lawyer Benjamin Crump told reporters.


The girl -- who he said does not wish to be identified -- "connects the dots" about what happened that day when she lays out what she overheard while on the phone with him, he said.


Martin was fatally shot on February 26 while walking to the house of his father's fiancee in Sanford after a trip to a nearby convenience store.


Speaking on the phone shortly before he was shot, Martin told the girl that someone was following him and that he was trying to get away, Crump said.


Witnesses describe Florida teen shooting


How Fla. law affects Trayvon Martin case
The girl said that, during the phone call, she heard someone ask Martin what he was doing and heard Martin ask why the person was following him, Crump said. The girl then got the impression that there was an altercation in which the earpiece fell out of Martin's ear and the connection went dead, Crump said.


Based on what she heard, the girl believes that Martin was pushed, said Crump, who added that the girl did not hear any gunfire.


Phone records show Martin was on the phone with her much of the day, including around the time of the killing, Crump said. He argued that if Martin were really "up to no good," he wouldn't have been chatting with his friend on the phone.


The girl said Martin was "his regular self," Crump said, arguing that any suggestions that the boy was "high" are "preposterous."


"It's what Zimmerman wants you to believe so he can justify killing this kid in cold blood," Crump said.


police had not interviewed the girl.


Morgenstern said Martin's cell phone was collected from the crime scene and investigators were working to acquire records associated with the phone's use.


Justice Department, FBI to investigate Florida teen's death
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?iref=obinsite

[buds]

The girl said Martin was "his regular self," Crump said,




yep a wanna be thug just like he portrayed himself on his facebook page.

keep bumping this thread

[natina]

Trayvon Martin a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

[natina]

Trayvon Martin was an all A's and B's student,teacher describes

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

[yodajazz]

yep a wanna be thug just like he portrayed himself on his facebook page.

keep bumping this thread

Tough talk or tough looks is not proof that that person will try to kill somebody. I remember, a when I was around 19 0r 20, I had gotten into two alterctions in a short period time. After that I got some clothes which looked like something the Black Panthers wore. After that, people would cross the street in order to not walk by me. I wasnt out to kill anyone. I just wanted to avoid being picked on. It's not just trans people that are bullied in school. They will try almost anyone, but less likely someone who talks tough. Martin would not be the first teen to try and fit in. There will be a trial. Perhaps one of the version of the stories Zimmerman told was the truth. But at least there will be an investiagtion with actual witnesses and evidience. Why is this such a big deal? Before Zimmerman's arrest, it appeared that any Black person, could be murdered, and all the person had to say, was "they tried to kill me". Especially if that person produced a cut or a bruise. No further investigation. Contrary to the belief of some, all human life has some intrinsic value.

[jamesedwards]

All A's and B's huh?

I hope no one calls me Black because I am African descent, black the word has negative connotations and AFrican descent people are not black. and Caucasian people are not white.

[mildcigar_2001]

16yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in black neighborhood???

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-3-shot-within-block-on-south-side-20120504,0,3772098.story

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson seem to have no comment. I guess you life is not worth mentioning if you are taken out by a fellow african-american.

[GroobySteven]

16yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in black neighborhood???

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-3-shot-within-block-on-south-side-20120504,0,3772098.story

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson seem to have no comment. I guess you life is not worth mentioning if you are taken out by a fellow african-american.

Relevance to this topic?

[mildcigar_2001]

Relevance to this topic?

Just curious as to why no one seems to care about this 16 year old kid's untimely death.

Is there any difference between him and Treyvon?

I think it implies inherent racism when the death of a black teen only merits comment when they are killed by a white or Hispanic person.

If you are killed by a fellow black then you don't matter; no protests, no Al Sharpton, no liberal handwringing. Obviously it is far more dangerous to be a young black male in Chicago than in Fla.

[GroobySteven]

Just curious as to why no one seems to care about this 16 year old kid's untimely death.

Is there any difference between him and Treyvon?

I think it implies inherent racism when the death of a black teen only merits comment when they are killed by a white or Hispanic person.

If you are killed by a fellow black then you don't matter; no protests, no Al Sharpton, no liberal handwringing. Obviously it is far more dangerous to be a young black male in Chicago than in Fla.

What a pile of shit. This has been answered before when you've made other so-called comparisions which have nothing in common. You've been warned already yet you just keep posting your racist rhetoric.

[yodajazz]

16yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in black neighborhood???

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-3-shot-within-block-on-south-side-20120504,0,3772098.story

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson seem to have no comment. I guess you life is not worth mentioning if you are taken out by a fellow african-american.
The killer of the person, in this article, has not been identified. In such cases, it presumed that the police will investigate, and attemp bring someone to justice. Unfortunately lots of people die, by violence. However there is a police/justice system in place, whos duties are find, prosecute and judge by degree of responsibility, (i.e. manslaughter, 1st, 2nd degree, negligence, etc). Trayvonn Martin's killer is known, and he admits killing a person, who it has been stated, was unarmed. The out cry was always about Justice. The information given to the public, rasied questions about the truth of Zimmerman's story. It was stated by media, that the investigating officer thought the he should be charged. It has been stated that Zimmerman, has told different versions of his story. Justice is about the truth being known. Isn't Truth important, for people to make sense of life (and death)? Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Addressing violence in general, is a greater issue. People have many aproaches to address these issues. I am curious as to your personal opinion, on possible ways to address this.

[fastingforlife]

I certainly will never forget Trayvon Martin's name.

Does anyone know at least one name of the over 800,000 people killed in the Rwandan genocide of 1994, while every nation on earth sat silently by, allowing these murders to happen? I don't. Maybe its time for me to learn a few. They were 800,000 Trayvon Martins that nobody has ever cared about. Just want to put things into perspective.

[yodajazz]

Just curious as to why no one seems to care about this 16 year old kid's untimely death.

Is there any difference between him and Treyvon?

I think it implies inherent racism when the death of a black teen only merits comment when they are killed by a white or Hispanic person.

If you are killed by a fellow black then you don't matter; no protests, no Al Sharpton, no liberal handwringing. Obviously it is far more dangerous to be a young black male in Chicago than in Fla.

To make it clear: You are mistaken to think that no one cares. Why would you think that peopla are not concerned with safety in their own communities? People like Jesse Jackson, in particular, have worked with issues related to poverty, general self esteem, education, etc, that are thought to be directly related to violence. Jesses Jackson ran for Prersident before Trayvonn was even born. This shows that he was looking at numerous issues, to improve people's daily lives.

I refer you to the last paragraph of my last post. But its not just you. I see a lot of name calling, by so called conservatives, but I dont see many things that address issues like violence, or making life better, or fairer for all, with exception of the unborn.

[yodajazz]

I certainly will never forget Trayvon Martin's name.

Does anyone know at least one name of the over 800,000 people killed in the Rwandan genocide of 1994, while every nation on earth sat silently by, allowing these murders to happen? I don't. Maybe its time for me to learn a few. They were 800,000 Trayvon Martins that nobody has ever cared about. Just want to put things into perspective.

There is not a lot that an individual of modest means can do. In such cases, people look to their goverment, to provide some sort of plan of action. The most significant thing in the US in 1994, was the Republican gains in Congress. I just reviewed the Republican "Contract with America" from that year. http://uspolitics.about.com/od/elections/a/contractAmerica.htm
The focus was entirely on US internal politics, with such things as changing the was that "welfare" worked. Clinton was hounded his entire 8 years, in office, by investigations into his personal affairs. Later, (not 1994, but 1998 a Fatwah issued by Osama Bin Laden, to kill American military personell, did not even make the front page of major US newspapers, as the focus was on Clinton's sex life. Also the entire government was shut down for weeks, due to a budget impass (Republican demands).

When Republican's took the Presidency in 2001, their first focus was on oil rich, Iraq, (even before 9/11). In the early 90's people in the community were first dealing with the effects of crack addiction, on families. I was on the front lines, in child protective services.

Yes the lives in Rwanda were/are important too. But there is only so much we can do, without focused leadership. Thanks for bringing it up.

[natina]

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America



By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous, motivated by an obsessive desire to guard the perimeter of his community and pose as a crime-fighting hero to those around him. It doesn’t take much imagination to size up Zimmerman psychologically. He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells. He’s the kind of person who, if he weren’t playing at policeman, would be one of those guys fabricating stories of his war heroism, buying fake military uniforms and medals on eBay and telling strangers in bars how he single-handedly held off insurgents in Kandahar or some such shit. He’s one of those guys. If you’ve met one, you’ve met them all: a wannabe somebody with a gun permit and a healthy dose of amped up, testosterone-fueled anxiety about outsiders; and so too, in his case, it appears (not only from this incident but also from dozens of previous 9-1-1 calls he’d made), a consistent fear about black men, whom he seemed to consider, almost by definition, as not belonging in his neighborhood.
If Trayvon Martin had been, say, Todd Martin, a 17-year old white male, in the same neighborhood on the same evening, it wouldn’t have mattered that he was wearing a hoodie, looking at homes as he passed them by, or fiddling with his waistband. These, it should be noted, were the apparent indicators of criminality that Zimmerman felt compelled to share with the police during his 9-1-1 call, before opting to chase Martin himself, in brazen defiance of their explicit instruction to stay put. Had he been white, Martin’s humanity would have been clearly discernible to Zimmerman. But he was black, and male, and that alone inspired Zimmerman to conclude that there was “something wrong with this guy,” and that he appeared to be “on drugs,” a judgment Zimmerman felt qualified to render based on his extensive background in behavioral psychology, bested only by his prodigious law enforcement training, and by extensive and prodigious, in this case, I mean none whatsoever.
Indeed, if you do not know that Martin’s race (and more to the point, Zimmerman’s racism) is central to the former’s death at the hands of the latter, it may well be that you are incapable of ever comprehending even the most obvious manifestations of this nation’s longstanding racial drama. Worse still, it may suggest that you are so bereft of empathy as to render you morally and emotionally dangerous to decent people.
And by empathy here, I don’t mean merely the ability to feel for the family of this murdered child. I’m guessing most all can manage that much. Rather, I refer to the kind of empathy too rarely attainable, by whites in particular, in the case of black folks who insist, based on their entire life experience and the insight gained from that experience, that their rights to life and liberty are too often subject to the capricious whims of those with less melanin than they, and for reasons owing explicitly to the color of their skin.
Empathy — real empathy, not the situational and utterly phony kind that most any of us can muster when social convention calls for it — requires that one be able to place oneself in the shoes of another, and to consider the world as they must consider it. It requires that we be able to suspend our own culturally-ingrained disbelief long enough to explore the possibility that perhaps the world doesn’t work as we would have it, but rather as others have long insisted it did.
Empathy, which is always among the first casualties of racist thinking, mandates our acceptance of the possibility that maybe it isn’t those long targeted by oppression who are exaggerating the problem or making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill, but rather we who have underestimated the gravity of racial domination and subordination in this country, and reduced what are, in fact, Everest-sized peaks to ankle-high summits, and for our own purposes, rather than in the service of truth.
And please, let us have no more ignoble and dissembling rationalizations for Trayvon Martin’s death and Zimmerman’s killing of him. If you are one, like those firmly ensconced in the pathetic Sanford, Florida police department, trying against all logic and human feeling to square this pernicious circle, just stop it. That there had been a half-dozen or so break-ins in Zimmerman’s community, ostensibly orchestrated by black males matters not a whit. Likewise, that there was a string of robberies in my New Orleans neighborhood during my senior year of college, which were the handiwork of white men, would not have justified my being stopped by police every time I returned home from a late afternoon class, to say nothing of being accosted by some community asshole with a Charles Bronson complex. But of course, such an analogy is silly isn’t it? We all know that whites are never subjected to this kind of generalized suspicion, even when we do, indeed, fit the description of one or another bad guy on the loose. We are not all looked at sideways when yet another white male serial killer is at large, or yet another abortion clinic bomber. We don’t face police roadblocks in lily-white communities so as to catch drunk drivers, even though the data is quite clear that whites represent a disproportionate number and percentage of those driving under the influence.
As for Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense, that anyone could believe such a demonstrably transparent lie as this is stunning. Or rather it isn’t. It makes perfect sense in a nation where blackness and danger have long been considered synonymous, such that any black male over the age of perhaps 10 can “reasonably” be assumed a predator whose designs on decent people and their property are so concretized as to warrant virtually any measure invoked to monitor, control and incapacitate them. However much has changed in the U.S. since the 1960s, or for that matter the 1860s, make note of it that at least this much has not: black folks are still, in the eyes of far too many whites, a problem to be addressed, a riddle to be solved. And deprived of the old mechanisms of social control to which we were once so wedded — formal segregation, regular lynchings, forced sterilization, even enslavement — we have opted for the development of new forms: racial profiling, gated communities into which we shall police entry, zoning laws that limit who can live among us, and mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses, among others.
Under what rational interpretation of self-defense could Zimmerman’s actions qualify? Zimmerman chased Martin down. Zimmerman tackled Martin after Martin demanded to know why Zimmerman was following him. Martin screamed for help. And Zimmerman shot him. Even if Martin fought back, how could such a thing — a quite reasonable response, it should be noted, to being attacked by a total stranger — justify pulling a gun, pulling the trigger and shooting the person who was acting in self-defense against you? To those who accept Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense, let us ask a simple question: would you be so willing to buy that argument if a black person were to chase down a white person in a mostly black neighborhood, and then upon catching him, end his life when the white person resisted being pummeled? You know full well the answer. We all do.
If I chase you and jump you, and you resist my assault, and in response to your resistance I kill you, I am the bad guy. Period. End of story. No exceptions, no prevarications, no ifs ands or buts. It’s me. Trayvon Martin is the innocent one here. He is the one who was acting in self-defense, when he resisted the assault of a total stranger, whose purposes for chasing him and accosting him made him rightfully afraid. After all, “neighborhood watch captains,” whether duly elected as such or just in their own heads (as seems to have been the case with Zimmerman), don’t wear official law enforcement uniforms, which might help identify them to the persons they may find themselves pursuing. And ya’ know why? Because despite their fervent and pre-adolescent desires to play cops and robbers like they used to do when they were eight years old, they are not cops. They are not even security guards. They are self-appointed enforcers with no authority whatsoever, save that which they have chosen to fabricate so as to make themselves feel more important.
Oh, and when you abuse that ill-gotten authority and take the life of a young black man in the process, you don’t get to be taken seriously when you swear that your actions couldn’t have been racist because, after all, you’re Latino (this being the latest fanciful insistence of Zimmerman’s family). Dear merciful Lord, what is that supposed to prove? Racism is not about the identity of the person acting it out so much as those upon whom it is acted, and for what purpose. There were black slave owners in the South, after all, and what of it? American slavery was a racist institution because it subordinated people based on racial identity, and was predicated on the notion of black inhumanity and white supremacy. That there were some black people who bought into both sets of lies does not acquit the institution of the charge of racism, nor those among the African American community who participated in it. So too, that there are persons of color who are just as anti-black in their thinking as many whites, pathetic and heartbreaking though it may be, means nothing and truthfully, should surprise no one.
It should be especially unsurprising that Zimmerman would have internalized racially-biased assumptions about black males, given the society in which he (and we) reside. And although this hardly lets him off the hook — one must be responsible for one’s own actions in any event, no matter the social contributors to those actions — it is worth noting a few things about the milieu in which this wannabe police officer was operating. In other words, Zimmerman’s culpability, while total and complete, is not solitary.
After all, we are a society in which research has shown quite conclusively that local newscasts overrepresent blacks as criminals, relative to their actual share of total crime, and overrepresent whites as victims, relative to our share of victimization.
A society in which other studies have shown that these racially-skewed newscasts have a direct relationship to widespread negative perceptions of black people. Indeed, a substantial percentage of anti-black racial hostility can be directly traced to media imagery, even after all other factors are considered.
A society in which the disproportionate incarceration of black males — especially for non-violent drug offenses, which they are no more likely (and often even less likely) than whites to commit — feeds the perception that they are so treated because they are dangerous and must be kept at bay.
A society in which criminality is so associated with blackness that whites literally and almost instantly connect the two things in survey after survey, and study after study, even though we are roughly 5 times as likely to be criminally victimized by another white person as by a black person.
A society in which anti-black racism has been so long ingrained that not only most whites, but also most Latinos and Asian Americans, demonstrate substantial subconscious bias against African Americans in study after study of implicit racial hostility (and even about a third of blacks themselves demonstrate anti-black racism).
George Zimmerman was very simply taught to fear black men by his society, and he learned his lessons well. And while he must be punished for his transgressions — and hopefully will be, now that the Justice Department is investigating and a Grand Jury is being convened — let there be no mistake, he cannot and should not take the fall alone for that which stems so directly from a larger social and cultural narrative to which he (and all of us) have been subjected.
Black males are, for far too many in America, a racial Rorschach test, onto which we instantaneously graft our own perceptions and assumptions, virtually none of them good. Look, a black man on your street! Quick, what do you see? A criminal. Look, a black man on the corner! Quick, what do you see? A drug dealer. Look, a black man in a suit, in a corporate office! Quick, what do you see? An affirmative action case who probably got the job over a more qualified white man. And if you don’t believe that this is what we do — what you do — then ask yourself why 95 percent of whites, when asked to envision a drug user, admit to picturing a black person, even though blacks are only 13 percent of users, compared to about 70 percent who are white? Ask yourself why whites who are hooked up to brain scan monitors and then shown subliminal images of black men — too quickly for the conscious mind to even process what it saw — show a dramatic surge of activity in that part of the brain that reacts to fear and anxiety? Ask yourself why whites continue to believe that we are the most discriminated against group in America — and that folks of color are “taking our jobs” — even as we remain roughly half as likely to be out of work and a third as likely to be poor as those persons of color. Even when only comparing persons with college degrees, black unemployment is about double the white rate, Latino unemployment about 50 percent higher, and Asian American unemployment about a third higher than their white counterparts.
George Zimmerman must be held accountable for his actions, and hopefully he will be. Innocent until proven guilty of course, there is a process for determining matters of formal legal responsibility, and may that process now move forward to a just conclusion. But beyond the matter of legal guilt or innocence, beyond that which can be addressed in a court of law — one way or the other — there is a bigger issue here, and it is one that cannot be resolved by a jury, be it Grand or otherwise, nor by judges or prosecutors. It is the none-too-minor matter of the monster we as a nation have created, not only apparently in the heart of George Zimmerman, but in the minds of millions: individuals far too quick to rationalize any injustice so long as the victim has a black face; persons for whom no act of racially-biased misconduct qualifies as racist; persons who have allowed their own fears, anxieties and occasionally even hatreds to numb them, to inure them to the pain and suffering of the so-called other.
Yesterday, I received an e-mail from someone suggesting that perhaps we should begin to sport buttons like those that became so ubiquitous in the case of Troy Davis last year. You know the buttons, right? The ones that said: “I am Troy Davis.” The ones that aimed at solidarity with an unjustly executed man, but which, on the lapels and t-shirts of white people seemed, to me at least, more banal and offensive than anything else, since we were not, in fact (and would not likely ever be) in the position of Troy Davis. And while in this case too, I understand the sentiment and appreciate the real compassion underlying the suggestion — or the no-doubt-soon-to-be-witnessed insertion of Trayvon Martin’s name in many a Facebook profile handle — I feel that perhaps we who are white should remind ourselves, before we jump on either bandwagon, that unfortunately, we are much less like Trayvon Martin and much more like George Zimmerman.
And that is the problem.
For sources pertinent to the various data and study claims made in this piece, please see Tim Wise’s 2010 book, Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity. To join the call for a serious Justice Department investigation into the killing of Trayvon Martin, please sign this petition at ColorOfChange.

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

[natina]

Trayvon Martin, White America and the Return of Dred Scott



For a while now we’ve known that there were significant numbers of white Americans who wanted to “take their country back” to some mythical period of the nation’s hagiographic past. We’ve known it because they’ve told us so, as often and endlessly as their lungs will allow.
Little did we realize, however, that for at least some in the white community that prior era of glory was not merely the too-often-nostalgized 1950s — with its misremembered innocence still fresh in their minds — but rather, the 1850‘s. Not 1957, the year in which the CBS television network gave us Leave it to Beaver, but instead, 1857, the year in which the Supreme Court gave us its decision in Dred Scott.
But now we know.
It was there, after all, that the nation’s brightest, most accomplished and yet most ethically decrepit jurists reminded the nation that blacks “had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.” They could never be citizens, “entitled to all the rights, and privileges, and immunities, guaranteed by (the Constitution),” because the framers of that document (to whom the Court referred as “great men,” “high in their sense of honor”) had never intended them such. And much like today’s conservative theorists, who are equally enamored of the so-called “jurisprudence of original intent,” the highest court, beholden as it was to the insipid moral views of 18th century white supremacists, insisted things must stay that way.
As the decision noted:
“[T]he legislation and histories of the times, and the language used in the Declaration of Independence, show, that neither the class of persons who had been imported as slaves, nor their descendants, whether they had become free or not, were then acknowledged as a part of the people, nor intended to be included in the general words used in that memorable instrument (the Constitution).
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect…This opinion was at that time fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race. It was regarded as an axiom in morals as well as in politics, which no one thought of disputing, or supposed to be open to dispute; and men in every grade and position in society daily and habitually acted upon it in their private pursuits, as well as in matters of public concern, without doubting for a moment the correctness of this opinion.”
Importantly, and this is what is particularly relevant for our current discussion, the Court opined that blacks were clearly never intended to be considered citizens, for had they been so, such designation would have extended to such individuals the unacceptable right “to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law…”
And this is what brings us to the terrifying present, a period some 155 years later, but during which time it appears there are still far too many in the white community (and even some among persons of color) who would return us to the logic of Dred Scott. This they make clear from their hateful and bigoted musings about Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old black male who made the mistake, in their mind, of forgetting that he had no rights which white men (or even Latino white-male-wannabes like George Zimmerman) need respect. No right to go where he pleased, “without molestation,” no right to be treated like a citizen, indeed like a human being. No rights to due process, to peaceably assemble on a public street, to free speech (which he foolishly tried to exercise by asking his pursuer, Zimmerman, why he was following him), to be free from cruel and unusual punishment (such as extra-judicial execution for being black in a hoodie and thus arousing the suspicions of a paranoid negrophobe). No rights at all.
And not even the well-established right to self-defense — the very right Zimmerman would now claim for himself, but which apparently did not extend to the young man whose life he ended. And so we hear (whether true or not — it remains to be seen) that Zimmerman had a broken nose and head injuries, that Martin attacked him: never mind that Zimmerman took out after Martin, that Zimmerman accosted Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood, that, according to witnesses, it was Zimmerman who pinned Martin down. We are supposed to feel sorry for the shooter because even in the light most favorable to him, his victim might have actually fought back! Imagine that, fighting back against a total stranger who attacks you. That Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would never have suffered the indignity of a broken septum, nor the anger of millions aimed in his direction had he just kept his stupid ass in his SUV like the police told him to do apparently matters not. Because, as some wish to remind us, Trayvon Martin had been suspended for school on suspicion of marijuana possession (an allegation so weak that he received no citation for the incident); and because Trayvon didn’t have a receipt for those Skittles he had in his possession when he was murdered (as if any 17 year old asks for a receipt when they purchase candy like they were going to need it for an expense report); and because Trayvon posed like a gangster on Facebook. Oh no, sorry, wrong Trayvon, but racists are like the Honey Badger–they don’t give a shit.
The active and putrescent campaign of defamation now in full swing against this dead child is a reminder of just how little black life matters to some. No matter the facts, their deaths are always justified.
These are the ideological soul mates of those who insisted Emmett Till really did say “Bye Baby” to that white woman, as if such an offense could even theoretically justify shooting him, tying a cotton gin fan to his neck with barbed wire, and tossing him in the Tallahatchie River.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the iniquitous heirs of the white reprobates who insisted against all logic and evidence that Dick Rowland really did attack Sarah Page in that Tulsa elevator, and thus, it was necessary to burn the black Greenwood district of the city to the ground in retaliation.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the fetid philosophical offspring of those whites who stood beneath the swinging bodies of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith, whom they had lynched, content in their own certitude that they had — again, evidence be damned — raped a white woman.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the vile and reeking progeny of those who insisted that even disrespecting white people was sufficient justification to affix black bodies to short ropes dangling from tall trees, to burn them with blowtorches, chop off body parts and sell them — or pictures of the carnage — as souvenirs.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the odious inheritors of a time-honored and dreadful tradition, in which virtually no misdeed the target of which is black can simply be condemned for what it is, and then have such condemnation followed by a period at the end of the sentence. No, it is forever and always the case that such condemnations, when and if they issue at all, will inevitably be followed by a comma, and the word “but,” and the attempt, however clumsy and craven, to all but erase the condemnation in a word salad of imbecilic rhetoric and exculpatory exhortation.
They are the carelessly cogitating companions of those who seek to brush aside the killings of Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond, or any of the hundreds of other folks of color, who comprise the disproportionate share of unarmed persons killed by law enforcement in city after city across America over the years. They are always to blame for their own deaths.
If they had just put their hands up, like they were asked.
If they had just not run.
If they had just answered the questions put to them politely and quickly.
If they had just not grabbed for their keys or wallet.
If they had just understood that the men dressed in plainclothes, pointing guns at them were police.
If they had just not worn those clothes, or that hairstyle.
If they just hadn’t seemed nervous.
If they just hadn’t fit the description of some criminal the police were looking for, and by “fit the description” we mean had they not been black or brown, between 5 foot 8 and 6 foot 6, walking upright.
Nothing is unacceptable to these people. Nothing. Their fear of blacks allows them to smooth over every bigoted crease in their racialized narrative, to make the indefensible defensible, in the name of their own perceived safety. Their pathological inability to look at black people as anything other than an undifferentiated mass of criminals, rather than encouraging us to condemn them for their utterly stupefying lack of discernment, and mentally diseased dysfunction, is to serve as a defense to every racist act. Black people are to bear the burden of everyone else’s mendacious and morally supine stupidity. Black people are to continue being profiled, suspected, and occasionally killed, so long as those conditioned by white supremacy are afraid of them. And that, we are to believe, is the fault of black people, not the rest of us.
Because black people have no rights that the white man is bound to respect.
A black president will have to prove, again and again, to the utter dissatisfaction of cretinous bottom-feeders, that he is really an American.
A black college student will have to prove, again and again, to the utter amazement of benighted white undergrads that he or she really does belong in the University community to which his or her entrance was secured.
A black teenager will have to prove that he isn’t a criminal, to the satisfaction of anyone who might think otherwise, lest they be tackled and shot.
And some of us will continue trying to prove — as if there could, any longer, be a question about it — that white privilege is real. That any feeling, remotely thinking person could dispute it, when no white mother is having to have the talk with their sons that black mothers across America are routinely having with theirs (both before and after the killing of Trayvon Martin) tells you all you need to know about denial and its impermeability. It tells you all you need to know about the America of 2012, relative to that of 1857. For however much things have changed since then, one thing remains the same.
Black people still have no rights which the white man is bound to respect.

Related Posts

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America
Tim Wise on the Melissa Harris-Perry Show – MSNBC – 3/25/12 – Discussing Trayvon Martin Case
Crime, Race and the Perils of Profiling

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-america-and-the-return-of-dred-scott/

[InHouston]

You don’t know the full story Seanchai. And you presume guilt on the part of Zimmerman just because it was a black guy. I’ve been doing neighborhood watch in my community for almost 4 years now, and I’ve seen this scenario over and over again on my own street on a near nightly and daily basis with all races and manners of dress. You don’t have to profile people for their skin color or hoodies. You profile them due to their suspicious behavior. I have security cameras all around my house, and work from home and monitor them all day and into the late hours. There are white, black, Hispanic, and Asian people going up and down the street all day and all night. Most of them are passing through, and moving along somewhere. Then there are the occasional people who are loitering, bobbing their heads around on a swivel, obviously concerned if someone is watching them. That’s a high probability that person is about to commit a crime, or is acting as a lookout for others in the vicinity of where they are. Zimmerman could tell that Trayvon was up to something by the way he was acting, and I’ve called the police in on my street to swarm in on numerous people acting the same way over the years, and I had 4 people arrested who were wanted for armed robbery, and another for murder. What I never did was confront them. I left that to the police.

What Zimmerman did was not illegal. He made a tactical error and isolated himself alone with a suspicious person when the police were not far behind. Something the police have told me themselves to never do. Zimmerman should have just remained back, but you don’t have to obey the dispatcher. As a neighborhood watch captain, if you decide to go it alone, you might just end up having to fight your way out of a situation you could have avoided. All the dispatcher can do is suggest what you should do for your own safety, and he messed up and ran point for the police, and Trayvon jumped him and started beating him up. No matter if Trayvon was up to something or not, he had no right to jump Zimmerman and start slamming his head into the pavement. That puts Zimmerman into a situation to defend himself, and that’s why Trayvon got shot. And Trayvon had every right to kill Zimmerman as well. In a neighborhood with crime problems, Trayvon should have been mature and just assured Zimmerman he lived there and will gladly wait for the police and talk to them, and everyone would have gone home. In fact, Trayvon should have thanked Zimmerman for watching out for his neighborhood. What I would like to know is why he took off running? I don’t run in my neighborhood, even if someone asks me what I’m doing around here, and it has happened more than once in the late hours and I’m white. I’ve had no problems, because I didn’t take off running and jump people because their cars and homes have been broken into.

They were about to refer the case to the Grand Jury, and the district attorney bypassed the Grand Jury and pressed charges herself for two reasons. 1]. She knew the Grand Jury would have dismissed the case outright and it would be over, and 2] she got her 15 minutes of fame on television. She was stupid to even accept the charge for murder, because Zimmerman will be acquitted of these charges in the end. And watch what happens when his charge of murder is dismissed. It’s going to be Rodney King all over again, and white people getting attacked and beat up in the streets. It’s already happening.

[InHouston]

When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.


You're absolutely right. I lived around them here.

[GroobySteven]

You're absolutely right. I lived around them here.

How many black kids did you shoot for being "disrespectful" ?

[jamesedwards]

how in the fuck do you get Trayvon was suspicious? As a matter of fact, the facts are that Trayvon threw on his hoodie when Zimmerman started to follow him, not he had it on the whole time. WTf are you talking about? He belonged there he was there visiting his father. He went to the 7/11 to get candy and drink, Zimmerman was on some class A I wanna be a hero so I can get a pat on the back bullshit and ended up killing a teen. He was told not to engage but he did, how is it that you people like you don't get that shit? He did right by calling the police so he should of let them who were on the way handle the shit. Trayvon would be alive or killed by police if Zimmerman would of let it be and follow the advice of the dispatcher. It's as simple as that, all these other projections about the case is a mask and bunch of bullshit!!!! ZIMMERMAN SHOULD OF STAYED IN HIS SUV!!! In his Neigborhood watch rules 1. Never engage a person call the police 2. Don't carry weapons. He violated 2 things already from the dam rule book!!! It's a fact he had a gun and it's a fact he engaged Trayvon and Zimmerman is a dam liar.


You don’t know the full story Seanchai. And you presume guilt on the part of Zimmerman just because it was a black guy. I’ve been doing neighborhood watch in my community for almost 4 years now, and I’ve seen this scenario over and over again on my own street on a near nightly and daily basis with all races and manners of dress. You don’t have to profile people for their skin color or hoodies. You profile them due to their suspicious behavior. I have security cameras all around my house, and work from home and monitor them all day and into the late hours. There are white, black, Hispanic, and Asian people going up and down the street all day and all night. Most of them are passing through, and moving along somewhere. Then there are the occasional people who are loitering, bobbing their heads around on a swivel, obviously concerned if someone is watching them. That’s a high probability that person is about to commit a crime, or is acting as a lookout for others in the vicinity of where they are. Zimmerman could tell that Trayvon was up to something by the way he was acting, and I’ve called the police in on my street to swarm in on numerous people acting the same way over the years, and I had 4 people arrested who were wanted for armed robbery, and another for murder. What I never did was confront them. I left that to the police.

What Zimmerman did was not illegal. He made a tactical error and isolated himself alone with a suspicious person when the police were not far behind. Something the police have told me themselves to never do. Zimmerman should have just remained back, but you don’t have to obey the dispatcher. As a neighborhood watch captain, if you decide to go it alone, you might just end up having to fight your way out of a situation you could have avoided. All the dispatcher can do is suggest what you should do for your own safety, and he messed up and ran point for the police, and Trayvon jumped him and started beating him up. No matter if Trayvon was up to something or not, he had no right to jump Zimmerman and start slamming his head into the pavement. That puts Zimmerman into a situation to defend himself, and that’s why Trayvon got shot. And Trayvon had every right to kill Zimmerman as well. In a neighborhood with crime problems, Trayvon should have been mature and just assured Zimmerman he lived there and will gladly wait for the police and talk to them, and everyone would have gone home. In fact, Trayvon should have thanked Zimmerman for watching out for his neighborhood. What I would like to know is why he took off running? I don’t run in my neighborhood, even if someone asks me what I’m doing around here, and it has happened more than once in the late hours and I’m white. I’ve had no problems, because I didn’t take off running and jump people because their cars and homes have been broken into.

They were about to refer the case to the Grand Jury, and the district attorney bypassed the Grand Jury and pressed charges herself for two reasons. 1]. She knew the Grand Jury would have dismissed the case outright and it would be over, and 2] she got her 15 minutes of fame on television. She was stupid to even accept the charge for murder, because Zimmerman will be acquitted of these charges in the end. And watch what happens when his charge of murder is dismissed. It’s going to be Rodney King all over again, and white people getting attacked and beat up in the streets. It’s already happening.

[buttslinger]

One time back in the day,
I bought a ten dollar "rock" from a little kid on his bike, maybe twelve years old, and an even littler kid was riding on the back fender. I had gone to a poor black neighborhood in the city, known for drug activity. As I turned to leave and hustle back to my car I suddenly came face to face with an older "Church Lady" type poor African-American, standing right inside her gate, and we took a short but unavoidably meaningful look at each other. World weary faces.

[jamesedwards]

Originally Posted by yourdaddy
When it's 80 plus degrees and someone is wearing a sweatshirt/hoodie in a gated community, they start out looking suspicious. NO ONE knows what kind of crap that kid gave the guard. Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world.

Now I wonder if he ever seen disrespectful Caucasian children? Drunk or high on weed? I have, I have seen Asians also, for him to say SO CALLED BLACK teens are THE MOST DISRESPECTFUL either that's all he's around or he don't get out much!!!
That is a stupid analogy!!!

And for his information it wasn't 80 degrees on that day Trayvon was shot, it was raining and chilly, why do people make up all types of bullshit to help the killer ? If it was 80 degrees and if he wanted to wear a dam hoodie is dude saying he don't have the right to wear a hoodie? WTF ?

[jamesedwards]

Ok tired of the bullshit. For all the Zimmerman supporters, riddle me fucking this.

Name ONE DAM THING TRAYVON DID WRONG ON THAT DAY HE DESERVED TO GET SHOT!!!! Just one. I'm not asking for two or three or 8 I asked for one bad thing he did that make you supporters think Zimmerman was right for shooting Trayvon in cold fucking blood!!!

You tell me if going to the store is a crime? If visiting your father is a crime? If wearing a dam hoodie is a crime, please explain to me on a logical level!!!

[natina]

criminal negligence is the charge!

you could of avoided the confrontation but you a wanna be cop vigilante
so you go pursue a kid wearing a hoddie in the rain cause other blacks had been doing crime in that neighborhood



Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America




By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous, motivated by an obsessive desire to guard the perimeter of his community and pose as a crime-fighting hero to those around him. It doesn’t take much imagination to size up Zimmerman psychologically. He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells. He’s the kind of person who, if he weren’t playing at policeman, would be one of those guys fabricating stories of his war heroism, buying fake military uniforms and medals on eBay and telling strangers in bars how he single-handedly held off insurgents in Kandahar or some such shit. He’s one of those guys. If you’ve met one, you’ve met them all: a wannabe somebody with a gun permit and a healthy dose of amped up, testosterone-fueled anxiety about outsiders; and so too, in his case, it appears (not only from this incident but also from dozens of previous 9-1-1 calls he’d made), a consistent fear about black men, whom he seemed to consider, almost by definition, as not belonging in his neighborhood.
If Trayvon Martin had been, say, Todd Martin, a 17-year old white male, in the same neighborhood on the same evening, it wouldn’t have mattered that he was wearing a hoodie, looking at homes as he passed them by, or fiddling with his waistband. These, it should be noted, were the apparent indicators of criminality that Zimmerman felt compelled to share with the police during his 9-1-1 call, before opting to chase Martin himself, in brazen defiance of their explicit instruction to stay put. Had he been white, Martin’s humanity would have been clearly discernible to Zimmerman. But he was black, and male, and that alone inspired Zimmerman to conclude that there was “something wrong with this guy,” and that he appeared to be “on drugs,” a judgment Zimmerman felt qualified to render based on his extensive background in behavioral psychology, bested only by his prodigious law enforcement training, and by extensive and prodigious, in this case, I mean none whatsoever.
Indeed, if you do not know that Martin’s race (and more to the point, Zimmerman’s racism) is central to the former’s death at the hands of the latter, it may well be that you are incapable of ever comprehending even the most obvious manifestations of this nation’s longstanding racial drama. Worse still, it may suggest that you are so bereft of empathy as to render you morally and emotionally dangerous to decent people.
And by empathy here, I don’t mean merely the ability to feel for the family of this murdered child. I’m guessing most all can manage that much. Rather, I refer to the kind of empathy too rarely attainable, by whites in particular, in the case of black folks who insist, based on their entire life experience and the insight gained from that experience, that their rights to life and liberty are too often subject to the capricious whims of those with less melanin than they, and for reasons owing explicitly to the color of their skin.
Empathy — real empathy, not the situational and utterly phony kind that most any of us can muster when social convention calls for it — requires that one be able to place oneself in the shoes of another, and to consider the world as they must consider it. It requires that we be able to suspend our own culturally-ingrained disbelief long enough to explore the possibility that perhaps the world doesn’t work as we would have it, but rather as others have long insisted it did.
Empathy, which is always among the first casualties of racist thinking, mandates our acceptance of the possibility that maybe it isn’t those long targeted by oppression who are exaggerating the problem or making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill, but rather we who have underestimated the gravity of racial domination and subordination in this country, and reduced what are, in fact, Everest-sized peaks to ankle-high summits, and for our own purposes, rather than in the service of truth.
And please, let us have no more ignoble and dissembling rationalizations for Trayvon Martin’s death and Zimmerman’s killing of him. If you are one, like those firmly ensconced in the pathetic Sanford, Florida police department, trying against all logic and human feeling to square this pernicious circle, just stop it. That there had been a half-dozen or so break-ins in Zimmerman’s community, ostensibly orchestrated by black males matters not a whit. Likewise, that there was a string of robberies in my New Orleans neighborhood during my senior year of college, which were the handiwork of white men, would not have justified my being stopped by police every time I returned home from a late afternoon class, to say nothing of being accosted by some community asshole with a Charles Bronson complex. But of course, such an analogy is silly isn’t it? We all know that whites are never subjected to this kind of generalized suspicion, even when we do, indeed, fit the description of one or another bad guy on the loose. We are not all looked at sideways when yet another white male serial killer is at large, or yet another abortion clinic bomber. We don’t face police roadblocks in lily-white communities so as to catch drunk drivers, even though the data is quite clear that whites represent a disproportionate number and percentage of those driving under the influence.
As for Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense, that anyone could believe such a demonstrably transparent lie as this is stunning. Or rather it isn’t. It makes perfect sense in a nation where blackness and danger have long been considered synonymous, such that any black male over the age of perhaps 10 can “reasonably” be assumed a predator whose designs on decent people and their property are so concretized as to warrant virtually any measure invoked to monitor, control and incapacitate them. However much has changed in the U.S. since the 1960s, or for that matter the 1860s, make note of it that at least this much has not: black folks are still, in the eyes of far too many whites, a problem to be addressed, a riddle to be solved. And deprived of the old mechanisms of social control to which we were once so wedded — formal segregation, regular lynchings, forced sterilization, even enslavement — we have opted for the development of new forms: racial profiling, gated communities into which we shall police entry, zoning laws that limit who can live among us, and mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses, among others.
Under what rational interpretation of self-defense could Zimmerman’s actions qualify? Zimmerman chased Martin down. Zimmerman tackled Martin after Martin demanded to know why Zimmerman was following him. Martin screamed for help. And Zimmerman shot him. Even if Martin fought back, how could such a thing — a quite reasonable response, it should be noted, to being attacked by a total stranger — justify pulling a gun, pulling the trigger and shooting the person who was acting in self-defense against you? To those who accept Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense, let us ask a simple question: would you be so willing to buy that argument if a black person were to chase down a white person in a mostly black neighborhood, and then upon catching him, end his life when the white person resisted being pummeled? You know full well the answer. We all do.
If I chase you and jump you, and you resist my assault, and in response to your resistance I kill you, I am the bad guy. Period. End of story. No exceptions, no prevarications, no ifs ands or buts. It’s me. Trayvon Martin is the innocent one here. He is the one who was acting in self-defense, when he resisted the assault of a total stranger, whose purposes for chasing him and accosting him made him rightfully afraid. After all, “neighborhood watch captains,” whether duly elected as such or just in their own heads (as seems to have been the case with Zimmerman), don’t wear official law enforcement uniforms, which might help identify them to the persons they may find themselves pursuing. And ya’ know why? Because despite their fervent and pre-adolescent desires to play cops and robbers like they used to do when they were eight years old, they are not cops. They are not even security guards. They are self-appointed enforcers with no authority whatsoever, save that which they have chosen to fabricate so as to make themselves feel more important.
Oh, and when you abuse that ill-gotten authority and take the life of a young black man in the process, you don’t get to be taken seriously when you swear that your actions couldn’t have been racist because, after all, you’re Latino (this being the latest fanciful insistence of Zimmerman’s family). Dear merciful Lord, what is that supposed to prove? Racism is not about the identity of the person acting it out so much as those upon whom it is acted, and for what purpose. There were black slave owners in the South, after all, and what of it? American slavery was a racist institution because it subordinated people based on racial identity, and was predicated on the notion of black inhumanity and white supremacy. That there were some black people who bought into both sets of lies does not acquit the institution of the charge of racism, nor those among the African American community who participated in it. So too, that there are persons of color who are just as anti-black in their thinking as many whites, pathetic and heartbreaking though it may be, means nothing and truthfully, should surprise no one.
It should be especially unsurprising that Zimmerman would have internalized racially-biased assumptions about black males, given the society in which he (and we) reside. And although this hardly lets him off the hook — one must be responsible for one’s own actions in any event, no matter the social contributors to those actions — it is worth noting a few things about the milieu in which this wannabe police officer was operating. In other words, Zimmerman’s culpability, while total and complete, is not solitary.
After all, we are a society in which research has shown quite conclusively that local newscasts overrepresent blacks as criminals, relative to their actual share of total crime, and overrepresent whites as victims, relative to our share of victimization.
A society in which other studies have shown that these racially-skewed newscasts have a direct relationship to widespread negative perceptions of black people. Indeed, a substantial percentage of anti-black racial hostility can be directly traced to media imagery, even after all other factors are considered.
A society in which the disproportionate incarceration of black males — especially for non-violent drug offenses, which they are no more likely (and often even less likely) than whites to commit — feeds the perception that they are so treated because they are dangerous and must be kept at bay.
A society in which criminality is so associated with blackness that whites literally and almost instantly connect the two things in survey after survey, and study after study, even though we are roughly 5 times as likely to be criminally victimized by another white person as by a black person.
A society in which anti-black racism has been so long ingrained that not only most whites, but also most Latinos and Asian Americans, demonstrate substantial subconscious bias against African Americans in study after study of implicit racial hostility (and even about a third of blacks themselves demonstrate anti-black racism).
George Zimmerman was very simply taught to fear black men by his society, and he learned his lessons well. And while he must be punished for his transgressions — and hopefully will be, now that the Justice Department is investigating and a Grand Jury is being convened — let there be no mistake, he cannot and should not take the fall alone for that which stems so directly from a larger social and cultural narrative to which he (and all of us) have been subjected.
Black males are, for far too many in America, a racial Rorschach test, onto which we instantaneously graft our own perceptions and assumptions, virtually none of them good. Look, a black man on your street! Quick, what do you see? A criminal. Look, a black man on the corner! Quick, what do you see? A drug dealer. Look, a black man in a suit, in a corporate office! Quick, what do you see? An affirmative action case who probably got the job over a more qualified white man. And if you don’t believe that this is what we do — what you do — then ask yourself why 95 percent of whites, when asked to envision a drug user, admit to picturing a black person, even though blacks are only 13 percent of users, compared to about 70 percent who are white? Ask yourself why whites who are hooked up to brain scan monitors and then shown subliminal images of black men — too quickly for the conscious mind to even process what it saw — show a dramatic surge of activity in that part of the brain that reacts to fear and anxiety? Ask yourself why whites continue to believe that we are the most discriminated against group in America — and that folks of color are “taking our jobs” — even as we remain roughly half as likely to be out of work and a third as likely to be poor as those persons of color. Even when only comparing persons with college degrees, black unemployment is about double the white rate, Latino unemployment about 50 percent higher, and Asian American unemployment about a third higher than their white counterparts.
George Zimmerman must be held accountable for his actions, and hopefully he will be. Innocent until proven guilty of course, there is a process for determining matters of formal legal responsibility, and may that process now move forward to a just conclusion. But beyond the matter of legal guilt or innocence, beyond that which can be addressed in a court of law — one way or the other — there is a bigger issue here, and it is one that cannot be resolved by a jury, be it Grand or otherwise, nor by judges or prosecutors. It is the none-too-minor matter of the monster we as a nation have created, not only apparently in the heart of George Zimmerman, but in the minds of millions: individuals far too quick to rationalize any injustice so long as the victim has a black face; persons for whom no act of racially-biased misconduct qualifies as racist; persons who have allowed their own fears, anxieties and occasionally even hatreds to numb them, to inure them to the pain and suffering of the so-called other.
Yesterday, I received an e-mail from someone suggesting that perhaps we should begin to sport buttons like those that became so ubiquitous in the case of Troy Davis last year. You know the buttons, right? The ones that said: “I am Troy Davis.” The ones that aimed at solidarity with an unjustly executed man, but which, on the lapels and t-shirts of white people seemed, to me at least, more banal and offensive than anything else, since we were not, in fact (and would not likely ever be) in the position of Troy Davis. And while in this case too, I understand the sentiment and appreciate the real compassion underlying the suggestion — or the no-doubt-soon-to-be-witnessed insertion of Trayvon Martin’s name in many a Facebook profile handle — I feel that perhaps we who are white should remind ourselves, before we jump on either bandwagon, that unfortunately, we are much less like Trayvon Martin and much more like George Zimmerman.
And that is the problem.
For sources pertinent to the various data and study claims made in this piece, please see Tim Wise’s 2010 book, Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity. To join the call for a serious Justice Department investigation into the killing of Trayvon Martin, please sign this petition at ColorOfChange.

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/




Trayvon Martin, White America and the Return of Dred Scott




For a while now we’ve known that there were significant numbers of white Americans who wanted to “take their country back” to some mythical period of the nation’s hagiographic past. We’ve known it because they’ve told us so, as often and endlessly as their lungs will allow.
Little did we realize, however, that for at least some in the white community that prior era of glory was not merely the too-often-nostalgized 1950s — with its misremembered innocence still fresh in their minds — but rather, the 1850‘s. Not 1957, the year in which the CBS television network gave us Leave it to Beaver, but instead, 1857, the year in which the Supreme Court gave us its decision in Dred Scott.
But now we know.
It was there, after all, that the nation’s brightest, most accomplished and yet most ethically decrepit jurists reminded the nation that blacks “had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.” They could never be citizens, “entitled to all the rights, and privileges, and immunities, guaranteed by (the Constitution),” because the framers of that document (to whom the Court referred as “great men,” “high in their sense of honor”) had never intended them such. And much like today’s conservative theorists, who are equally enamored of the so-called “jurisprudence of original intent,” the highest court, beholden as it was to the insipid moral views of 18th century white supremacists, insisted things must stay that way.
As the decision noted:
“[T]he legislation and histories of the times, and the language used in the Declaration of Independence, show, that neither the class of persons who had been imported as slaves, nor their descendants, whether they had become free or not, were then acknowledged as a part of the people, nor intended to be included in the general words used in that memorable instrument (the Constitution).
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect…This opinion was at that time fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race. It was regarded as an axiom in morals as well as in politics, which no one thought of disputing, or supposed to be open to dispute; and men in every grade and position in society daily and habitually acted upon it in their private pursuits, as well as in matters of public concern, without doubting for a moment the correctness of this opinion.”
Importantly, and this is what is particularly relevant for our current discussion, the Court opined that blacks were clearly never intended to be considered citizens, for had they been so, such designation would have extended to such individuals the unacceptable right “to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law…”
And this is what brings us to the terrifying present, a period some 155 years later, but during which time it appears there are still far too many in the white community (and even some among persons of color) who would return us to the logic of Dred Scott. This they make clear from their hateful and bigoted musings about Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old black male who made the mistake, in their mind, of forgetting that he had no rights which white men (or even Latino white-male-wannabes like George Zimmerman) need respect. No right to go where he pleased, “without molestation,” no right to be treated like a citizen, indeed like a human being. No rights to due process, to peaceably assemble on a public street, to free speech (which he foolishly tried to exercise by asking his pursuer, Zimmerman, why he was following him), to be free from cruel and unusual punishment (such as extra-judicial execution for being black in a hoodie and thus arousing the suspicions of a paranoid negrophobe). No rights at all.
And not even the well-established right to self-defense — the very right Zimmerman would now claim for himself, but which apparently did not extend to the young man whose life he ended. And so we hear (whether true or not — it remains to be seen) that Zimmerman had a broken nose and head injuries, that Martin attacked him: never mind that Zimmerman took out after Martin, that Zimmerman accosted Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood, that, according to witnesses, it was Zimmerman who pinned Martin down. We are supposed to feel sorry for the shooter because even in the light most favorable to him, his victim might have actually fought back! Imagine that, fighting back against a total stranger who attacks you. That Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would never have suffered the indignity of a broken septum, nor the anger of millions aimed in his direction had he just kept his stupid ass in his SUV like the police told him to do apparently matters not. Because, as some wish to remind us, Trayvon Martin had been suspended for school on suspicion of marijuana possession (an allegation so weak that he received no citation for the incident); and because Trayvon didn’t have a receipt for those Skittles he had in his possession when he was murdered (as if any 17 year old asks for a receipt when they purchase candy like they were going to need it for an expense report); and because Trayvon posed like a gangster on Facebook. Oh no, sorry, wrong Trayvon, but racists are like the Honey Badger–they don’t give a shit.
The active and putrescent campaign of defamation now in full swing against this dead child is a reminder of just how little black life matters to some. No matter the facts, their deaths are always justified.
These are the ideological soul mates of those who insisted Emmett Till really did say “Bye Baby” to that white woman, as if such an offense could even theoretically justify shooting him, tying a cotton gin fan to his neck with barbed wire, and tossing him in the Tallahatchie River.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the iniquitous heirs of the white reprobates who insisted against all logic and evidence that Dick Rowland really did attack Sarah Page in that Tulsa elevator, and thus, it was necessary to burn the black Greenwood district of the city to the ground in retaliation.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the fetid philosophical offspring of those whites who stood beneath the swinging bodies of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith, whom they had lynched, content in their own certitude that they had — again, evidence be damned — raped a white woman.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the vile and reeking progeny of those who insisted that even disrespecting white people was sufficient justification to affix black bodies to short ropes dangling from tall trees, to burn them with blowtorches, chop off body parts and sell them — or pictures of the carnage — as souvenirs.
No rights which the white man is bound to respect.
They are the odious inheritors of a time-honored and dreadful tradition, in which virtually no misdeed the target of which is black can simply be condemned for what it is, and then have such condemnation followed by a period at the end of the sentence. No, it is forever and always the case that such condemnations, when and if they issue at all, will inevitably be followed by a comma, and the word “but,” and the attempt, however clumsy and craven, to all but erase the condemnation in a word salad of imbecilic rhetoric and exculpatory exhortation.
They are the carelessly cogitating companions of those who seek to brush aside the killings of Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond, or any of the hundreds of other folks of color, who comprise the disproportionate share of unarmed persons killed by law enforcement in city after city across America over the years. They are always to blame for their own deaths.
If they had just put their hands up, like they were asked.
If they had just not run.
If they had just answered the questions put to them politely and quickly.
If they had just not grabbed for their keys or wallet.
If they had just understood that the men dressed in plainclothes, pointing guns at them were police.
If they had just not worn those clothes, or that hairstyle.
If they just hadn’t seemed nervous.
If they just hadn’t fit the description of some criminal the police were looking for, and by “fit the description” we mean had they not been black or brown, between 5 foot 8 and 6 foot 6, walking upright.
Nothing is unacceptable to these people. Nothing. Their fear of blacks allows them to smooth over every bigoted crease in their racialized narrative, to make the indefensible defensible, in the name of their own perceived safety. Their pathological inability to look at black people as anything other than an undifferentiated mass of criminals, rather than encouraging us to condemn them for their utterly stupefying lack of discernment, and mentally diseased dysfunction, is to serve as a defense to every racist act. Black people are to bear the burden of everyone else’s mendacious and morally supine stupidity. Black people are to continue being profiled, suspected, and occasionally killed, so long as those conditioned by white supremacy are afraid of them. And that, we are to believe, is the fault of black people, not the rest of us.
Because black people have no rights that the white man is bound to respect.
A black president will have to prove, again and again, to the utter dissatisfaction of cretinous bottom-feeders, that he is really an American.
A black college student will have to prove, again and again, to the utter amazement of benighted white undergrads that he or she really does belong in the University community to which his or her entrance was secured.
A black teenager will have to prove that he isn’t a criminal, to the satisfaction of anyone who might think otherwise, lest they be tackled and shot.
And some of us will continue trying to prove — as if there could, any longer, be a question about it — that white privilege is real. That any feeling, remotely thinking person could dispute it, when no white mother is having to have the talk with their sons that black mothers across America are routinely having with theirs (both before and after the killing of Trayvon Martin) tells you all you need to know about denial and its impermeability. It tells you all you need to know about the America of 2012, relative to that of 1857. For however much things have changed since then, one thing remains the same.
Black people still have no rights which the white man is bound to respect.

Related Posts

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America
Tim Wise on the Melissa Harris-Perry Show – MSNBC – 3/25/12 – Discussing Trayvon Martin Case
Crime, Race and the Perils of Profiling

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-america-and-the-return-of-dred-scott/


You don’t know the full story Seanchai. And you presume guilt on the part of Zimmerman just because it was a black guy. I’ve been doing neighborhood watch in my community for almost 4 years now, and I’ve seen this scenario over and over again on my own street on a near nightly and daily basis with all races and manners of dress. You don’t have to profile people for their skin color or hoodies. You profile them due to their suspicious behavior. I have security cameras all around my house, and work from home and monitor them all day and into the late hours. There are white, black, Hispanic, and Asian people going up and down the street all day and all night. Most of them are passing through, and moving along somewhere. Then there are the occasional people who are loitering, bobbing their heads around on a swivel, obviously concerned if someone is watching them. That’s a high probability that person is about to commit a crime, or is acting as a lookout for others in the vicinity of where they are. Zimmerman could tell that Trayvon was up to something by the way he was acting, and I’ve called the police in on my street to swarm in on numerous people acting the same way over the years, and I had 4 people arrested who were wanted for armed robbery, and another for murder. What I never did was confront them. I left that to the police.

What Zimmerman did was not illegal. He made a tactical error and isolated himself alone with a suspicious person when the police were not far behind. Something the police have told me themselves to never do. Zimmerman should have just remained back, but you don’t have to obey the dispatcher. As a neighborhood watch captain, if you decide to go it alone, you might just end up having to fight your way out of a situation you could have avoided. All the dispatcher can do is suggest what you should do for your own safety, and he messed up and ran point for the police, and Trayvon jumped him and started beating him up. No matter if Trayvon was up to something or not, he had no right to jump Zimmerman and start slamming his head into the pavement. That puts Zimmerman into a situation to defend himself, and that’s why Trayvon got shot. And Trayvon had every right to kill Zimmerman as well. In a neighborhood with crime problems, Trayvon should have been mature and just assured Zimmerman he lived there and will gladly wait for the police and talk to them, and everyone would have gone home. In fact, Trayvon should have thanked Zimmerman for watching out for his neighborhood. What I would like to know is why he took off running? I don’t run in my neighborhood, even if someone asks me what I’m doing around here, and it has happened more than once in the late hours and I’m white. I’ve had no problems, because I didn’t take off running and jump people because their cars and homes have been broken into.

They were about to refer the case to the Grand Jury, and the district attorney bypassed the Grand Jury and pressed charges herself for two reasons. 1]. She knew the Grand Jury would have dismissed the case outright and it would be over, and 2] she got her 15 minutes of fame on television. She was stupid to even accept the charge for murder, because Zimmerman will be acquitted of these charges in the end. And watch what happens when his charge of murder is dismissed. It’s going to be Rodney King all over again, and white people getting attacked and beat up in the streets. It’s already happening.

[natina]

Trayvon Martin Smear Campaign Extends to Hoodie Wearing Congressman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLSbkeiYCE&list=UU-3jIAlnQmbbVMV6gR7K8aQ&index=2&feature=plcp)


CAUTION 911 call Trayvon Martin yelling for help gunshot heard in background - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urq1eAxdRE8&feature=related)


Witness To Trayvon Shooting Speaks Out! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDal8Qqaw&feature=related)






Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say







The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

[natina]

911 tapes released in death of black teen - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-DzXVKgKA&feature=related)

[buds]

Ok tired of the bullshit. For all the Zimmerman supporters, riddle me fucking this.

Name ONE DAM THING TRAYVON DID WRONG ON THAT DAY HE DESERVED TO GET SHOT!!!! Just one. I'm not asking for two or three or 8 I asked for one bad thing he did that make you supporters think Zimmerman was right for shooting Trayvon in cold fucking blood!!!

You tell me if going to the store is a crime? If visiting your father is a crime? If wearing a dam hoodie is a crime, please explain to me on a logical level!!!




First off NOBODY knows what happened (except zimmerman) all we know is what the media desides to make up for their ratings. so keep this in mind. Odds are zimmerman didn't wake up one day and say i'm going to shoot somebody and go looking. if he did he wouldn't have called 911 when he saw martin.

I'm willing to bet this was a case of two want to be tough guys that went horribly wrong.

[trish]

Black teenagers are the most disrespectful group of kids in the world. What a stupid-ass comment! So if Treyvon was being disrespectful, then he was doing exactly as expected and therefore was not in the least behaving suspiciously. Ahhh...but Zimmerman says he was acting suspiciously; i.e. not behaving how you would expect a teenage in Treyvon's "group" to behave (disrespectfully). Following InHouston's logic, Treyvon was very respectful, didn't give anybody any crap and was simply walking toward his friend's house with his hood up against the rain...in short he was "acting suspiciously." Seems that "suspicious" is in the twisted mind of the racist poster who wasn't even there to be a beholder.

[buds]

I have a question.

why when this case is referred to its treyvon and zimmerman? why is it not martin and zimmerman or george and martin?

[robertlouis]

[SIZE=3]All the dispatcher can do is suggest what you should do for your own safety, and he messed up and ran point for the police, and Trayvon jumped him and started beating him up. No matter if Trayvon was up to something or not, he had no right to jump Zimmerman and start slamming his head into the pavement. That puts Zimmerman into a situation to defend himself, and that’s why Trayvon got shot. And Trayvon had every right to kill Zimmerman as well.

Apart from the point that Trayvon Martin's being the instigator is mere surmise, what kind of value system do you have which is happy to say that someone has "every right to kill" another human being? That is so fucked up it's obscene.

[trish]

Hi InHouston. Remember the good times we had back in 09? You've hardly been back to HA since you last attempted to correct my grammar. Remember

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=727524&postcount=41
and
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=727698&postcount=43

Hilarious! Good times.

[natina]

George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.
“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”
The new portrayal of Zimmerman comes as distinctly different images of both Martin and Zimmerman are being floated by people on both sides of the Martin killing. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin Feb. 26 in self defense after being jumped from behind. He has not been charged.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html


http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg

[natina]

ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite)




Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...






then he's guilty under the law.

[natina]

he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor

How ironic is this picture..

But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*

How ironic is this picture..
But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-1.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-1.jpg)

Treyvon’s parents at the March
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-3.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-3.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-9.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-9.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-7.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-7.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-13.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-13.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/trayvon-march.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/trayvon-march.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-12.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-12.jpg)
Beautiful thing to see people are all races united.
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-10.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-10.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-11.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-11.jpg)
Heartbreaking pictures of children protesting
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-8.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-8.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/i-am-treyvon.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/i-am-treyvon.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-4.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-4.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-6.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-6.jpg)





Howard University School of Law Representing..
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-1.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-1.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-2.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-2.jpg)





More in Zimmerman’s domestic violence history

The court records concern a conflict between Zimmerman and his ex-fiancée, who filed a petition accusing Zimmerman of pushing her during an argument at her Orlando home in August 2005.
The woman reported Zimmerman had arrived at her home Aug. 8 and asked to talk. Later, when she asked him to leave, she said, he insisted on staying and demanded documents she had.
The woman said she offered to drop the papers off the following day, but Zimmerman became upset, took her cellphone and shoved her. A fight ensued, she said, and her dog bit Zimmerman’s cheek.
Zimmerman filed his own petition the day after his ex-fiancée’s, in which he claimed that she had been the aggressor in the fight. He said she called him Aug. 8 and invited him to spend the night.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321,0,5472535.story


http://bymystique.com/2012/03/21/its-going-down-in-new-york-city-update-on-justice-for-trayvon#more-3291

[natina]

http://media.timesfreepress.com/img/photos/2012/04/11/120412_George_Zimmerman_t618.jpg?ba5b5b122dd3d37cc 13d83e92a6a0ec0d5bfa32ahttp://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/He-Came-At-Me-With-Skittles.png
http://www.usprisonculture.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/trayvon18.jpg

http://www.chicagonow.com/becoming-nikki-lynette/files/2012/03/scarier.jpg


http://galesburgplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/stand-your-ground-cartoon.jpg

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f92f47a/turbine/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-released-20120420-001/600http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/T-Mobile-Phone-Records-of-Call-with-Girlfriend1.jpg



http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-1.jpg

[natina]

WHAT A BROKEN NOSE LOOKS LIKE
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-been-arrested/

Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman’s 2005 MySpace page “includes disparaging remarks about Mexicans.” (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/05/02/trayvon-martin-killer-george-zimmermans-2005-myspace-page-includes-disparaging-remarks-about-mexicans/)
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/george-zimmerman/


http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/trayvon-george-zimmerman-MySpace-photo.jpg

[natina]

According to the Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html), Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.
In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html

[buds]

hey natina, why don't you stop diluting this topic with copy and paste stuff from the internet?

[InHouston]

How many black kids did you shoot for being "disrespectful" ?

None. I have a concealed handgun license myself, and because I carry at all times, I don’t respond to disrespect from anyone. Nor do I confront suspicious people during neighborhood watch. To do so is stupid and dangerous for both parties, because it introduces a weapon into the situation just like what happened to Zimmerman. And another reason I don’t confront or respond to people is because citizens in states like Texas and Florida have more rights to use deadly force than the police do. The police know it, and criminals know it too. It’s a monumental responsibility, one that I’ve contemplated for years and came to terms on the best manner in which to conduct myself in a composed manner to avoid unfortunate outcomes.

You can believe all the propaganda you like, but I’ve evaluated what happened to Zimmerman thoroughly. He meant well, and was trying to help the police but involved himself in a foot pursuit he’s not trained to handle, but had every right to do it. That doesn’t mean it was the smartest thing to do. Zimmerman’s boyish demeanor strikes me as naïve. He made two tactical mistakes in conducting neighborhood watch. First, he shouldn’t have revealed that he was watching someone. That is error #1. That will spook them and send them off running every time. Two, he shouldn’t have pursued Treyvon. That is just dumb dumb dumb. You’re not in uniform, and you’re just going to end up in an altercation with someone when you do that. Let uniformed police handle that situation. When I perform neighborhood watch, I’m armed with .45 pistol, 69 rounds of ammunition, a Taser, and handcuffs, and a police scanner for situational awareness of what’s going on around me. That is not to hunt and pursue people in my neighborhood. That is to protect me when I’m standing in my driveway all by lonesome at 3:00 am. My primary weapon is my cell phone with a direct number to police dispatch. When I see something that doesn’t look right, I retreat back into the house and call the dispatcher.

Just a few weeks ago at 2:30 in the morning a rogue car ran up my neighbor’s driveway and knocked over her trash can. Then pulled into the street and sat there with their lights blacked out for 20 minutes. It was a car with 4 black males in it. I called the Constables and told them what I saw. The dispatcher told me to remain in the house because they could be armed, and I did just that and used my security cameras to keep an eye on them until the police arrived, and they swarmed in on them like hornets; white and black cops included, and started yanking these guys out and throwing them into the back of their squad cars. Turns out, they were 4 underage black guys like Treyvon who were not a threat to anyone. They took one’s mother’s car without permission and were out riding around drinking and smoking weed, and ran over the curb and broke down in front of my house. They brought in additional squad cars and returned them to their parents and towed the mom’s car off and said over the scanner “The mom is very angry right now, and has been sitting up wondering where her son and her car is.” And that was it. Now imagine if I did like Zimmerman, walked down my driveway and confronted them? I would have had to deal with 4 young men pissed off, defensive, apprehensive, and could have gotten jumped and had to shoot my way out of getting my ass stomped in the street. I played it smart and stayed out of it.

Although Zimmerman has been charged with 2nd degree murder, the court and jury has to prove first and foremost of “intent” to commit murder. That’s not what he did. He ran point for the police trying to help them, and started getting his ass kicked which Treyvon had every right to do. But, no matter the circumstances, that put Zimmerman into a situation where he had to defend himself to save his life or avoid bodily harm. Treyvon should have never started beating on him. If Treyvon used his head, it was clear that Zimmerman wasn’t out to rob him. They’re both at fault. Therefore, it’s a wash. It’s a mutual-combat scenario they both could have avoided, and Zimmerman ended up on his back getting beat up. Did Zimmerman start it? Yes. Did Treyvon exasperate the situation? Yes he did.

Therefore, Zimmerman will be acquitted. And the riots will ensue afterwards.

[GroobySteven]

Although Zimmerman has been charged with 2nd degree murder, the court and jury has to prove first and foremost of “intent” to commit murder. That’s not what he did. He ran point for the police trying to help them, and started getting his ass kicked which Treyvon had every right to do. But, no matter the circumstances, that put Zimmerman into a situation where he had to defend himself to save his life or avoid bodily harm. Treyvon should have never started beating on him. If Treyvon used his head, it was clear that Zimmerman wasn’t out to rob him. They’re both at fault. Therefore, it’s a wash. It’s a mutual-combat scenario they both could have avoided, and Zimmerman ended up on his back getting beat up. Did Zimmerman start it? Yes. Did Treyvon exasperate the situation? Yes he did.

Therefore, Zimmerman will be acquitted. And the riots will ensue afterwards.

You made a lot of sense until this last paragraph. I don't think and have never stated that Zimmerman went out with intent and I agree with your summing up, up until the point of when he approached his "suspect". I don't think there has been any evidence of Treyvon attacking Zimmerman. Zimmerman created the situation, brought the gun and chose to pull the trigger. Shouldn't it at the least be manslaughter? If he is aquitted, then if I was American I'd feel like demonstrating in public about a misjustice.

[InHouston]

You made a lot of sense until this last paragraph. I don't think and have never stated that Zimmerman went out with intent and I agree with your summing up, up until the point of when he approached his "suspect". I don't think there has been any evidence of Treyvon attacking Zimmerman. Zimmerman created the situation, brought the gun and chose to pull the trigger. Shouldn't it at the least be manslaughter? If he is aquitted, then if I was American I'd feel like demonstrating in public about a misjustice.


Back in 1982, a friend of mine and I parked 6 blocks over from our parent’s house to smoke some weed he had at 1:30 in the morning; a habit I quit in my Junior year in high school because of the trouble it brought on me. I got really really nervous, because I saw people looking out their windows wondering why we were sitting in front of their houses. I said, “Fernando, let’s go somewhere else. People are looking at us and the cops are going to show up.” He said, “Fuck em I don’t care. We have the right to sit here if we want to.” I said, “No we don’t! We’re sitting out here in the middle of the night, smoking weed in front of these people’s houses and they’re all watching us. This doesn’t look right.”, and he shrugged it off like it was nothing. Not even 10 minutes later, a rogue figure come walking through the lawns … he was white, and drew a large caliber weapon on us from across his back and asked “What are you doing here?” I threw my hands up and said, “I tried to tell his dumbass this doesn’t look right and he wouldn’t listen to me.” He said, “You’re god-damned right it doesn’t look right, and I’m tired of having my cars broke into when I’m asleep.” I said, “Fernando, get the fuck out of here” and we returned back to my house. I bitched him out in my driveway and told him to never put me in that situation again.

The following day, I went by myself to that man’s home, knocked on his door, and apologized to him and his family for spooking him and his neighbor’s for acting suspiciously. What he also told me is that he had the cops not far behind us after we left, but they arrived when we were gone. Lesson learned. Now imagine if we acted like Treyvon and jumped him. We have gotten shot. For nothing, and no court would have defended us.

I've been a member of your site for many years now, and I wish you'd cut me a break. This is not Ireland. There is a huge crime epidemic going on in our country and our president is not helping.

[giovanni_hotel]

InHouston, the difference IMO between your situation and the Martin murder is that Trayvon was at his father's condo within this gated community watching the NBA playoffs. Trayvon left his father's condo heading towards 7-11 for candy and iced tea. He wasn't high. He wasn't menacing anyone by loitering outside their home. He was WALKING in the rain, talking to his GF on the phone.

If you want to watch the kid to see what he does, fine. I've done that before. But if that kid runs because you've been following him for three blocks in your SUV and suddenly you get out of your ride to pursue him on foot, whatever happens next is the blame of the person who has the gun.

I don't believe George Zimmerman's life at any point was in real danger and if Zimmerman didn't have his gun, I believe he would have been smacked a few times by Trayvon, the fight would have been over soon after and Travyon would have left Zimmerman on the ground feeling like a fool.

Zimmerman's legal counsel and his family want people to believe that if Zimmerman and Trayvon had fought and George didn't pull out his gun, Trayvon either would have killed him WITH HIS BARE HANDS(really hard to do btw)or beaten Zimmerman so bad he'd be a drooling paraplegic.

Trayvon's GF who was on the phone with him until the call went dead said it sounded like someone had shoved Travyon because his ear piece fell out.

Some of you are really giving Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt. IMO, you're rooting for him. WHy?? I know not.

And for the record, national crime stats have FALLEN since Obama entered office. You guys spew so many right wing, agenda driven, misinformed talking points you wouldn't recognize the truth if it fucked you rawdog in the ass.

[GroobySteven]

Some of you are really giving Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt. IMO, you're rooting for him. WHy?? I know not.


THIS!

BTW - the reason I originally posted the piece was because at the time, no arrest had been made and mainstream media had yet to pick it up. I'm not rooting for anyone other than the families rights to have this investigated properly.

[InHouston]

There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.

[GroobySteven]

There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.

Then if that is the case maybe this situation will make people look at a law that is clearly out of control.

[giovanni_hotel]

There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.



Anytime you shoot an unarmed teen that you were following, that's called a homicide which is a crime.

If the man in your story shot you and your friend for cussing him out, let's pretend, that too would be a crime.

Having a gun doesn't automatically give a civilian police authority.

If a law allows anyone to claim 'self-defense' as a cause for justifiable homicide with no proof or evidence except the shooter's word, IMO that's a law that needs to be struck down.

[Willie Escalade]

WHY do I keep clicking on this thread? I already know the outcome...

[natina]

BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!


did I say BULLSHIT!

the charge is Criminally Negligent Homicide
you do not have to intend to kill someone to be negligent.


CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE


http://www.tncrimlaw.com/TPI_Crim/07_07.htm


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Criminally+negligent

The failure to use reasonable care to avoid consequences that threaten or harm the safety of the public and that are the foreseeable outcome of acting in a particular manner.
Criminal negligence is a statutory offense that arises primarily in situations involving the death of an innocent party as a result of the operation of a motor vehicle by a person who is under the influence of Drugs and Narcotics (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Drugs+and+Narcotics) or alcohol. Most statutes define such conduct as criminally negligent Homicide (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Homicide). Unlike the tort of Negligence (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Negligence), in which the party who acted wrongfully is liable for damages to the injured party, a person who is convicted of criminal negligence is subject to a fine, imprisonment, or both, because of the status of the conduct as a crime.
West's Encyclopedia of American

ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite)



CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
Any person who commits criminally negligent homicide is guilty of a crime.
For you to find the defendant guilty of this offense, the state must have proven beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of the following essential elements:1
(1) that the defendant's conduct resulted in the death of the alleged
victim;


and
(2) that the defendant acted with criminal negligence.
“Criminal negligence” means that a person acts with criminal negligence when the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the alleged victim will be killed. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person’s standpoint.2
The requirement of criminal negligence is also established if it is shown that the defendant acted intentionally, knowingly or recklessly.3
"Intentionally" means that a person acts intentionally when it is the person's conscious objective or desire to cause the death of the alleged victim.4 (http://www.tncrimlaw.com/TPI_Crim/07_07.htm#_edn1)
"Knowingly" means that a person acts with an awareness that [his] [her]
conduct is reasonably certain to cause the death of the alleged victim.5 (http://www.tncrimlaw.com/TPI_Crim/07_07.htm#_edn2)
“Recklessly” means that a person acts recklessly when the person is aware of, but consciously disregards, a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the alleged victim will be killed. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person’s standpoint.6 (http://www.tncrimlaw.com/TPI_Crim/07_07.htm#_edn3)




Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.





None. I have a concealed handgun license myself, and because I carry at all times, I don’t respond to disrespect from anyone. Nor do I confront suspicious people during neighborhood watch. To do so is stupid and dangerous for both parties, because it introduces a weapon into the situation just like what happened to Zimmerman. And another reason I don’t confront or respond to people is because citizens in states like Texas and Florida have more rights to use deadly force than the police do. The police know it, and criminals know it too. It’s a monumental responsibility, one that I’ve contemplated for years and came to terms on the best manner in which to conduct myself in a composed manner to avoid unfortunate outcomes.

You can believe all the propaganda you like, but I’ve evaluated what happened to Zimmerman thoroughly. He meant well, and was trying to help the police but involved himself in a foot pursuit he’s not trained to handle, but had every right to do it. That doesn’t mean it was the smartest thing to do. Zimmerman’s boyish demeanor strikes me as naïve. He made two tactical mistakes in conducting neighborhood watch. First, he shouldn’t have revealed that he was watching someone. That is error #1. That will spook them and send them off running every time. Two, he shouldn’t have pursued Treyvon. That is just dumb dumb dumb. You’re not in uniform, and you’re just going to end up in an altercation with someone when you do that. Let uniformed police handle that situation. When I perform neighborhood watch, I’m armed with .45 pistol, 69 rounds of ammunition, a Taser, and handcuffs, and a police scanner for situational awareness of what’s going on around me. That is not to hunt and pursue people in my neighborhood. That is to protect me when I’m standing in my driveway all by lonesome at 3:00 am. My primary weapon is my cell phone with a direct number to police dispatch. When I see something that doesn’t look right, I retreat back into the house and call the dispatcher.

Just a few weeks ago at 2:30 in the morning a rogue car ran up my neighbor’s driveway and knocked over her trash can. Then pulled into the street and sat there with their lights blacked out for 20 minutes. It was a car with 4 black males in it. I called the Constables and told them what I saw. The dispatcher told me to remain in the house because they could be armed, and I did just that and used my security cameras to keep an eye on them until the police arrived, and they swarmed in on them like hornets; white and black cops included, and started yanking these guys out and throwing them into the back of their squad cars. Turns out, they were 4 underage black guys like Treyvon who were not a threat to anyone. They took one’s mother’s car without permission and were out riding around drinking and smoking weed, and ran over the curb and broke down in front of my house. They brought in additional squad cars and returned them to their parents and towed the mom’s car off and said over the scanner “The mom is very angry right now, and has been sitting up wondering where her son and her car is.” And that was it. Now imagine if I did like Zimmerman, walked down my driveway and confronted them? I would have had to deal with 4 young men pissed off, defensive, apprehensive, and could have gotten jumped and had to shoot my way out of getting my ass stomped in the street. I played it smart and stayed out of it.

Although Zimmerman has been charged with 2nd degree murder, the court and jury has to prove first and foremost of “intent” to commit murder. That’s not what he did. He ran point for the police trying to help them, and started getting his ass kicked which Treyvon had every right to do. But, no matter the circumstances, that put Zimmerman into a situation where he had to defend himself to save his life or avoid bodily harm. Treyvon should have never started beating on him. If Treyvon used his head, it was clear that Zimmerman wasn’t out to rob him. They’re both at fault. Therefore, it’s a wash. It’s a mutual-combat scenario they both could have avoided, and Zimmerman ended up on his back getting beat up. Did Zimmerman start it? Yes. Did Treyvon exasperate the situation? Yes he did.

Therefore, Zimmerman will be acquitted. And the riots will ensue afterwards.


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite)




Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...







then he's guilty under the law.



George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.
“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”
The new portrayal of Zimmerman comes as distinctly different images of both Martin and Zimmerman are being floated by people on both sides of the Martin killing. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin Feb. 26 in self defense after being jumped from behind. He has not been charged.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html


http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg


he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor

How ironic is this picture..

But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*

How ironic is this picture..
But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-1.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-1.jpg)

Treyvon’s parents at the March
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-3.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-3.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-9.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-9.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-7.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-7.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-13.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-13.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/trayvon-march.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/trayvon-march.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-12.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-12.jpg)
Beautiful thing to see people are all races united.
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-10.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-10.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-11.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-11.jpg)
Heartbreaking pictures of children protesting
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-8.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-8.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/i-am-treyvon.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/i-am-treyvon.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-4.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-4.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-6.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/treyvon-march-6.jpg)





Howard University School of Law Representing..
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-1.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-1.jpg)
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-2.jpg (http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-2.jpg)





More in Zimmerman’s domestic violence history

The court records concern a conflict between Zimmerman and his ex-fiancée, who filed a petition accusing Zimmerman of pushing her during an argument at her Orlando home in August 2005.
The woman reported Zimmerman had arrived at her home Aug. 8 and asked to talk. Later, when she asked him to leave, she said, he insisted on staying and demanded documents she had.
The woman said she offered to drop the papers off the following day, but Zimmerman became upset, took her cellphone and shoved her. A fight ensued, she said, and her dog bit Zimmerman’s cheek.
Zimmerman filed his own petition the day after his ex-fiancée’s, in which he claimed that she had been the aggressor in the fight. He said she called him Aug. 8 and invited him to spend the night.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321,0,5472535.story
http://bymystique.com/2012/03/21/its-going-down-in-new-york-city-update-on-justice-for-trayvon#more-3291


According to the Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html), Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.
In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html

[natina]

Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
s on MySpace Page

A MySpace page has surfaced that shows Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Mexicans and boasted about escaping from legal problems.

While the page is dated from 2005 and has not been used for some time, lawyers on both sides say the social media page could become a factor in the case against Zimmerman, who is accused of shooting the unarmed African-American teenager in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

The page, titled, "only to be a king again," shows Zimmerman sounding off against Mexicans and celebrating his evasion of charges after a fight with a law enforcement officer.

In a possible reference to an alleged 2005 domestic violence incident, Zimmerman also uses a disparaging slang word for prostitute against his former girlfriend. Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family, says the page shows Zimmerman has a history of racial profiling.

[InHouston]

Anytime you shoot an unarmed teen that you were following, that's called a homicide which is a crime.

If the man in your story shot you and your friend for cussing him out, let's pretend, that too would be a crime.

Having a gun doesn't automatically give a civilian police authority.

If a law allows anyone to claim 'self-defense' as a cause for justifiable homicide with no proof or evidence except the shooter's word, IMO that's a law that needs to be struck down.

There has to be "intent" to commit murder. That's not what his intention was. He was assisting the police in a foot-pursuit. Unfortunately, Treyvon jumped him and started beating him up, and Zimmerman shot his way out of it. Even Treyvon's mother initially admitted this was an unfortunate accident, and that's what it was.

And I'm not rooting for Zimmerman. Treyvon and Zimmerman both over-reacted and spooked each other. Unfortunately, Treyvon lost.

[trish]

I thought first degree murder required intent, but second degree and manslaughter ( both still homicides) do not? Zimmerman was told by the police that his "assistance";i.e. "foot-pursuit" was not required. He was no doubt told this in order to avoid a violent confrontation leading to tragedy. That Trayvon even touched Zimmerman is at this point mere speculation entertained by those desperate to protect Zimmerman and the idiotic stand-your-ground law that allows people to just walk away from homicides without any due process.

[robertlouis]

I thought first degree murder required intent, but second degree and manslaughter ( both still homicides) do not? Zimmerman was told by the police that his "assistance";i.e. "foot-pursuit" was not required. He was no doubt told this in order to avoid a violent confrontation leading to tragedy. That Trayvon even touched Zimmerman is at this point mere speculation entertained by those desperate to protect Zimmerman and the idiotic stand-your-ground law that allows people to just walk away from homicides without any due process.

"Stand your ground" sounds like those caricatures of the wild west - gun law, to all intents and purposes.

[trish]

That's exactly what they're meant to invoke. Little boys over 20 years old just eat that western shit up. SYG laws are in fact No-Due-Process-Required laws. You can kill someone, shrug your shoulders, claim you're a coward...oops!...I mean that you feared for your life and defended yourself with a deadly toy. The police will shrug and say keep up the good work...no due process required.

[robertlouis]

That's exactly what they're meant to invoke. Little boys over 20 years old just eat that western shit up. SYG laws are in fact No-Due-Process-Required laws. You can kill someone, shrug your shoulders, claim you're a coward...oops!...I mean that you feared for your life and defended yourself with a deadly toy. The police will shrug and say keep up the good work...no due process required.

That's why I said it was a caricature. After all, back in the 1880s after the OK Corral, Earp, his brothers and Doc Holliday at least ended up in court.

[InHouston]

The dispatcher can only suggest what you should do for your own safety. If you choose to run off into a potentially dangerous situation before the cops arrive, that's your legal problem.

[trish]

And when you do you can no longer claim you were assisting the police.

[InHouston]

That's conjecture on your part. They told him, "We don't want you doing that". Not, "You can't do that." They told him that for his safety and for the safety of the suspect. But ... citizens are free to confront suspicous people and aid the police if they choose to. It's stupid and dangerous to do it, and that's why Zimmerman is in the situation he's in. I won't do it, because it could be something bad or nothing at all. It's not worth the risk. The police are better experienced to ascertain a situation like that. He should have just stayed back and continued to be additional eyes for them. Tactical error? Yes. Illegal? No. Absolutely not. Stupid? Hell yeah!

[InHouston]

I understand where you're coming from Trish, but you don't have experience in Neighborhood Watch. I do. First rule, not law, is don't confront suspicious people. It's stupid and dangerous to do that. If Treyvon had killed Zimmerman, Treyvon would have walked Scott-Free by the Stand Your Ground Statute. The very statute you people are denouncing. There is a crime epidemic in America, and private citizens are trying to catch up and protect their neighborhoods. Many of them don't know what they're doing because the criminals are one step ahead of them with years of experience on getting away. That’s why he said, “They always get away”. Many of the criminals do. They are well versed in what they’re doing, and they’re first rule is run run run.

I’ll give an example Trish. Last night my wife and I were walking our neighborhood at 3:00 in the morning. A beautiful mustang came down the street, and was cut off by an old pickup truck with the lights off and forced to pull over. I immediately told my wife, “Uh oh. Let’s turn around. There’s an altercation going on there and we need to get back.”

Now, what if I presumed there was a carjacking or a robbery going on and went running in there? Which it looked like the case. We stood 50 yards back and watched a female get yanked out of the Mustang, and the Mustang sped angrily sped off. When the truck passed us you could hear the driver yelling at her “Fucking slut!”.

So, it was nothing. Some guy’s girlfriend or wife was out with another man in his nice Mustang. Now if I went running in there, drew my gun, and ordered all of them to remain there until the cops show up, that was my right, because it looked like a robbery or carjacking in progress. I just sat back and monitored what was happening and didn’t go running in there and have a hoard of people pissed at me to stay out of their business.

See what I mean? Stay cool. Stay calm, and stay back. It’s not illegal to intervene in suspicious activity in your community. It’s very very stupid to do it.

[jamesedwards]

Hold up time out, lets not play semantics here. The dispatcher goes by protocol, and that was the right one to make. Now being you wanna play that game, lets look at the neighborhood watch rules.

1. Don't engage a person call the police and they will handle the situation.
2. Don't carry weapons as a neighborhood watch person.

So I would like for you to try and play around with those words. Zimmerman needs to go to jail, it's a fact he killed an unarmed man, fact Trayvon didn't have a weapon of no kind unless you figure out some way to say Skittles and a loaded ice tea is a weapon. Go ahead get around that one. Zimmerman is guilty. This is one of those things that you don't need a trail for.

IN training of a non-armed security officer you are told watch and observe, call the police immediately, keep suspects in site if you can, and wait for the police and then give them every possible note from your observance. You don't engage, upon an arm security it's different because they are armed and have more professional skills on handling a problem with an armed suspect.

Plus look at how Zimmerman approached Trayvon "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE" what the fuck is that? That sounds like a gang member or something, and Trayvon probably thought that. Zimmerman was no way are professional. He should of handled it another way while approaching. First off if I feel dude is tall as Trayvon was I would of called the police and not approach him because you don't know what he has as far as a weapon. Zimmerman wanted confrontation so he could get to use his gun, plain and simple that's why he did that and he wanted to be known as a hero, because he wanted to be a cop but couldn't!!!


That's conjecture on your part. They told him, "We don't want you doing that". Not, "You can't do that." They told him that for his safety and for the safety of the suspect. But ... citizens are free to confront suspicous people and aid the police if they choose to. It's stupid and dangerous to do it, and that's why Zimmerman is in the situation he's in. I won't do it, because it could be something bad or nothing at all. It's not worth the risk. The police are better experienced to ascertain a situation like that. He should have just stayed back and continued to be additional eyes for them. Tactical error? Yes. Illegal? No. Absolutely not. Stupid? Hell yeah!

[InHouston]

Hold up time out, lets not play semantics here. The dispatcher goes by protocol, and that was the right one to make. Now being you wanna play that game, lets look at the neighborhood watch rules.

1. Don't engage a person call the police and they will handle the situation.
2. Don't carry weapons as a neighborhood watch person.

So I would like for you to try and play around with those words. Zimmerman needs to go to jail, it's a fact he killed an unarmed man, fact Trayvon didn't have a weapon of no kind unless you figure out some way to say Skittles and a loaded ice tea is a weapon. Go ahead get around that one. Zimmerman is guilty. This is one of those things that you don't need a trail for.

IN training of a non-armed security officer you are told watch and observe, call the police immediately, keep suspects in site if you can, and wait for the police and then give them every possible note from your observance. You don't engage, upon an arm security it's different because they are armed and have more professional skills on handling a problem with an armed suspect.

Plus look at how Zimmerman approached Trayvon "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE" what the fuck is that? That sounds like a gang member or something, and Trayvon probably thought that. Zimmerman was no way are professional. He should of handled it another way while approaching. First off if I feel dude is tall as Trayvon was I would of called the police and not approach him because you don't know what he has as far as a weapon. Zimmerman wanted confrontation so he could get to use his gun, plain and simple that's why he did that and he wanted to be known as a hero, because he wanted to be a cop but couldn't!!!

No no no. Zimmerman did not hunt him down to use his gun. You’re just saying that because Treyvon was black. The courts don’t buy into that kind of simplistic bias. What happened that night is a bit more complex than that.

1] You can engage suspicious activity in your neighborhood. It’s not illegal but not encouraged by the police because it’s dangerous. It’s not smart, because you don’t know who you’re dealing with. A guy with Skittles, or someone who just committed a home invasion. You have to assume the worst and play it smart and remain in a safe position and remain back for your own good. If you choose to run into some bullshit … well Zimmerman ran head first into it. The police are in uniform and are recognized as authority in the community. If you choose to run point for the police, you could be construed by the person being pursued that you’re an assailant and get attacked, which is what happened to Zimmerman. Then Zimmerman has to defend his life. Zimmerman was trying to help the police when Treyvon took off running, and that is a number one “no no” during police training. Don’t engage without backup. You don’t want to end up isolated alone.

2] When I volunteered my time for neighborhood watch, I met with nine officers at my local store. They told me, “Keep your gun on you at all times. Carry extra ammunition, and be careful. Don’t confront suspicious people, and let us handle that.” They didn’t say I can’t, because you can. It was a warning for my own safety and it’s stupid to not heed their advice. Your weapons during neighborhood watch are to protect you while you’re out alone at night, and could be targeted for a robbery.

I don’t know what state you in, but in Texas and Florida citizens have more rights than the police to use deadly force if need be.

Zimmerman will be acquitted, and will have to spend much of his life in hiding for trying to help the police. Treyvon’s mother should have taught her son not to meander around people’s houses looking suspicious in an area already enduring a crime problem.

[trish]

The police said Zimmerman's continued "assistance" was not needed. So you admit it was "stupid and dangerous" (your words) for Zimmerman to continue his pursuit. Why? Because the consequence may be "bad." Indeed the consequences were bad. To cause a death by willful and needless pursuit of a dangerous activity IS illegal. It's called negligence and the appropriate charge is manslaughter.

[jamesedwards]

THUMBS UP TO YOU TRISH!!!

Only thing I disagree here is MANSLAUGHTER, no Zimmerman should be charged with 1st degree murder, he had intent on hurting someone, because the statement he made "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY" he was hell bent on catching someone, and he made sure to hell to carry a gun which in his watchman rules said not to do. InHouston tries to play semantics with Rule and Law, well they made the rule so their wouldn't be chaos which Zimmerman has made a chaotic situation worse if he would of listened to the dispatcher.
Hey if your mother tells you not to sell drugs or you will get killed or go to jail, that's her rule her law, but you have the will to disobey, yet there are consequences if you break her rules, so if you go to jail can't blame that on the mother. Same thing here if it was a rule he should of listened to the dispatcher, what the hell are they there for then? People are trying to make a dam excuse for Zimmerman he killed a teen in cold blood. There' s no logic to it, other than he should of stayed in the car and let the police handle that, Zimmerman is not the LAW nor is he able to carry out LAW, as InHouston puts it. Zimmerman definitely is not a professional either. He should do time and the fact is he kill someone and he knew he was going to fire that gun at some point or time.

Man slaughter falls under this, lets say Zimmerman chased Trayvon and Trayvon got hit by a car, Zimmerman didn't actually kill Trayvon but by him chasing Trayvon caused Trayvon's death, that's manslaughter, here it's clear Zimmerman had a gun and shot and killed Trayvon himself. Now the reason it's not 1st degree murder is because they are saying they can't prove it was intentional. So 2nd murder had to come about not manslaughter.


The police said Zimmerman's continued "assistance" was not needed. So you admit it was "stupid and dangerous" (your words) for Zimmerman to continue his pursuit. Why? Because the consequence may be "bad." Indeed the consequences were bad. To cause a death by willful and needless pursuit of a dangerous activity IS illegal. It's called negligence and the appropriate charge is manslaughter.

[giovanni_hotel]

If Zimmerman didn't have his gun, he NEVER would have chased after Trayvon.
IMO having his firearm with him shows intent on Zimmerman's part.

[trish]

True enough: in most other homicide cases bringing your gun to the crime scene is certainly evidence of intent. That along with Zimmerman's statement, "They always get away," there may be proof of intent.

Needless and dangerous pursuit leading to death should be enough to establish reckless manslaughter at the very least. Bringing the weapon to the scene, volunteering "They always get away" and then killing an unarmed seventeen year old may be sufficient to establish intent. But who can predict what a Florida jury will say? I'm just happy it's going to trial. It would make my day if the policemen who initially let Zimmerman walk loose their jobs and pension for their slipshod handling of the case.

[natina]

exhibit #1 and one of zimmermans 1st group of lies that he did not know the DA had evidence for.

1.) zimmerman " I scream for help"


2.) there was no words exchanged or preallocation

3.)zimmerman did not know that the 911 calls made would capture the screams for help and 2 experts from the news would analyze the contents and conclude it it not zimmerman screaming for help. so the only other reasonable explanation is it is TRAVON MARTIN screaming for help and zimmerman lied and reversed the story of who was calling for help to fend off an aggressor


stupid criminals!

[buds]

You guys kill me with your scenarios. Seriously murder one?? He didn't even know martin so he could never had premeditated it. Shit even murder 2 is a stretch, that is why they appointed a *special prosecutor*. If it was such a slam dunk why didn't the grand jury get involved?


I'm still waiting for the blank panthers to get arrested for *conspiracy to commit aggravated murder*

oh wait, that will never happen now will it

[buds]

If George didn't have his gun, he NEVER would have chased after Martin.
IMO having his firearm with him shows intent on George's part.

^^^^^^I fixed your text for you

If I carry does that mean i'm a murderer looking for a victim???

[buttslinger]

justice for all

giovanni-
Where do you stand on the Redskins team name? I admit guilt on this one.

[buttslinger]

If I carry does that mean i'm a murderer looking for a victim???

Gun permits are meant for defense. They're not meant to be a license to chase guys down the street that you think may be guilty of something ,and they're not a badge. They must teach that at the mandatory school for applying for the permit.

[robertlouis]

If I carry does that mean i'm a murderer looking for a victim???

Coming from a country which bans the carrying of firearms, the answer has to be, potentially, yes.

If you're carrying it, it implies that you're prepared to use it, and circumstances could therefore all too arise in which your actions can be construed as murder.

[buds]

Gun permits are meant for defense. They're not meant to be a license to chase guys down the street that you think may be guilty of something ,and they're not a badge. They must teach that at the mandatory school for applying for the permit.


So george must have felt he was protecting himself then. I keep posting if he meant to kill the guy he never would have called 911. Shit if he was hunting all he had to do was shoot and keep walking.

[buds]

Coming from a country which bans the carrying of firearms, the answer has to be, potentially, yes.

If you're carrying it, it implies that you're prepared to use it, and circumstances could therefore all too arise in which your actions can be construed as murder.

There is NO ban of carrying a firearm in the US. Everybody has the right to carry you only need a permit to carry concealed.

[InHouston]

You guys kill me with your scenarios. Seriously murder one?? He didn't even know martin so he could never had premeditated it. Shit even murder 2 is a stretch, that is why they appointed a *special prosecutor*. If it was such a slam dunk why didn't the grand jury get involved?


I'm still waiting for the blank panthers to get arrested for *conspiracy to commit aggravated murder*

oh wait, that will never happen now will it

The prosecutor bypassed the Grand Jury, because they would have dismissed the case.

[natina]

naw to much media tainting

[InHouston]

There is NO ban of carrying a firearm in the US. Everybody has the right to carry you only need a permit to carry concealed.

No, if you're legally carrying in this country, that means you are able to defend yourself. And everyone does not have the right to carry in all states here.

One night at 1:00 am, I turned into my neighborhood and a carload of hispanic gang members blacked out their lights, swerved over at me, and tried to force me over to stop. They cut me off, and I stopped, pointed my gun out the window at them, and they sped off in such a panic they slammed into the curb. I made a U-turn and got out of what the police told me was a car-jacking attempt, and I didn't have to fire a single shot.

[InHouston]

So george must have felt he was protecting himself then. I keep posting if he meant to kill the guy he never would have called 911. Shit if he was hunting all he had to do was shoot and keep walking.

Excellent point, and I've made that same point myself. If he was out to hunt down people, use his gun and shoot someone, he would not have been on the phone with the police.

[buds]

one more thing i keep wondering to, If martin was on the phone with his girl and felt in danger why not tell her to call 911 and report George???

So many thing twisted by the media............

[buds]

No, if you're legally carrying in this country, that means you are able to defend yourself. And everyone does not have the right to carry in all states here.

One night at 1:00 am, I turned into my neighborhood and a carload of hispanic gang members blacked out their lights, swerved over at me, and tried to force me over to stop. They cut me off, and I stopped, pointed my gun out the window at them, and they sped off in such a panic they slammed into the curb. I made a U-turn and got out of what the police told me was a car-jacking attempt, and I didn't have to fire a single shot.


I believe you. I was just in houston for two weeks. I was surprised at some of the neighborhoods!

[trish]

^^^^^^I fixed your text for you

If I carry does that mean i'm a murderer looking for a victim???If you wind up stalking an unarmed kid, tell the police "They always get away" and shoot and kill the kid, then yes...bringing a gun to the scene is evidence (not necessarily proof) that you intended to shoot someone that night (not necessarily someone you knew, but that you just had an itch to play vigilante and take it all the way). The statement about always getting away may be enough to establish that intent. It depends on the jury.

A gun in your pocket might make you feel like a big man, but it won't change your dick size. In the interests of everybody's safety and sense of decorum, leave your gun at home and your teeny weenie in your pants.

[robertlouis]

There is NO ban of carrying a firearm in the US. Everybody has the right to carry you only need a permit to carry concealed.

I know that. But it doesn't invalidate what I said.

[buds]

If you wind up stalking an unarmed kid, tell the police "They always get away" and shoot and kill the kid, then yes...bringing a gun to the scene is evidence (not necessarily proof) that you intended to shoot someone that night (not necessarily someone you knew, but that you just had an itch to play vigilante and take it all the way). The statement about always getting away may be enough to establish that intent. It depends on the jury.

A gun in your pocket might make you feel like a big man, but it won't change your dick size. In the interests of everybody's safety and sense of decorum, leave your gun at home and your teeny weenie in your pants.

he didn't stalk a unarmend young man he simply asked him what he was doing in the gated community in which he did not live. At this point if martin said i am staying at my dads while i am suspended from school he probably would be alive.

he never told the police they always get away with it, that was to a dispatcher.

he was carrying because he was out in the middle of the night by himself watching out for trouble while everybody else slept. It seems to me everytime he called 911 they blew him off. that would be why his statement was they get away with it because the 911 dispatchers were lazy and didn't do shit when he did call something suspicious in.

[buttslinger]

So george must have felt he was protecting himself then.

I wonder if he would have protected himself from 5 black kids.

[buds]

I know that. But it doesn't invalidate what I said.

Sure it does. If i choose to carry and by law i am allowed, it does not mean i am looking to shoot someone only to protect myself from somebody that might like to live by stealing and hurting others.

like i posted before. I'm not saying george is right or martin was right. I believe it was just two wanna be tough guys that ended up in a bad situation and one was better prepared to live another day. Might not be a good life but he made a decision in a split second that now will dictate the rest of his life.

[buds]

I wonder if he would have protected himself from 5 black kids.


Why did you have to bring race into this????

And to answer your question, his clip holds 7 rounds........

[InHouston]

The police said Zimmerman's continued "assistance" was not needed. So you admit it was "stupid and dangerous" (your words) for Zimmerman to continue his pursuit. Why? Because the consequence may be "bad." Indeed the consequences were bad. To cause a death by willful and needless pursuit of a dangerous activity IS illegal. It's called negligence and the appropriate charge is manslaughter.

No it's not negligence nor is it manslaughter Trish. You should look at this from another angle. The Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine Laws are here in these states to protect people from being victimized by criminals who have evolved into horribly violent people over the last decade. The law is not the problem.

The choice Zimmerman made was a tactical error on his part the police tried to tell him not to get involved in. The police have told me more than once, "We can show up in time to draw a chalk line around your dead body. Call us, and remain under the radar and just be safe and use your weapon if you're cornered by someone." Now if I'm in a store and a band of robbers come in with guns drawn to rob the store, I can legally engage and kill those people, or retreat to the back of the store and defend where I stand. The problem and Catch-22 in that is, if you engage will you get these guys, or get yourself killed? If you don't, and you retreat, will innocent people get killed because you did nothing? That’s a question that has woke me up many times in the night. Imagine if a mother was killed during a robbery and I did nothing, and her husband knew I was in the store legally armed. They are perplexing questions, but the answer is to protect you first.



They teach such prerogatives and hard choices during concealed handgun training and leave those choices up to you. In Texas, Transgendered people have very liberal rights to arm themselves to protect themselves at all times. It's a good law. When I got my CHL license, I had numerous talks with my instructors and many stop and talks with police officers who shared their experience with me on the "do's and don'ts" of carrying a firearm. Rule #1, not the law, just prudence, don't run into a situation you can avoid. You're armed, and just take a defensive stance on situations against yourself. Zimmerman didn't give a lot of thought to what he was doing, because he tried to be a stand-up guy for the cops and his neighborhood. It was a valiant effort on his part, but he ended up isolated and alone and had to shoot his way out of it when Treyvon started beating him up. That’s not murder. It’s a mutual combat scenario. They both spooked each other and over-reacted. That’s not murder. It’s just unfortunate. Cops are better trained to ascertain when and how to react during a dynamic encounter with a suspicious person.



The law is not the problem. If anything, law enforcement should conduct public education programs on how to better assist them in community watch efforts. Often, citizens are left to figure out things on their own without the vast experience offered at police academies. They should share this experience with citizens who want to step up and assist in crime watch.

Zimmerman simply miscalculated, and got isolated alone with a suspect. Cops don’t do that, because they’re trained to pursue with backup.


There was no intention on his part to hunt down Treyvon and shoot him. He was running point for the police to catch him, because he took off running. Zimmerman made him run by encountering him. He could have just played it cool, acted like he was out for a stroll, and when the squad cars arrived, subtly pointed his finger at Treyvon, made a U-turn and walk away.


That’s where he went wrong. It’s not illegal. It was stupid of him to do that, because he had to shoot his way out of an ass-whipping Treyvon put on him. Treyvon wouldn’t have jumped the cops when they showed up. Treyvon shouldn’t have tripped out and jumped Zimmerman anyway.

[trish]

The Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine Laws are here in these states to protect people from being victimized by criminalsUtter nonsense. We all know exactly what SYG laws are about: little boys with rich fantasy lives want to play with their toys out in public and play vigilante hero. We've seen what happens when such laws are on the books. THE LAW IS A BIG PROBLEM, not to mention the idiots (training or not) who carry concealed weapons. Men carry their guns out in the open. Real men don't carry at all. Like you need a gun in a gated community:rolleyes:.

Look at it this way: Needless endangerment resulting in death falls under the category of manslaughter. Being negligent of the risks of your actions to the lives of unarmed kids is reckless endangerment. When it ends in death it's a homicide.

Zimmerman did not make a tactical error. He was negligent, reckless. His action was "stupid" and "dangerous." Those are your words. Don't go flip-flopping on me now. Tactical...right:rolleyes:.

[robertlouis]

Sure it does. If i choose to carry and by law i am allowed, it does not mean i am looking to shoot someone only to protect myself from somebody that might like to live by stealing and hurting others.

like i posted before. I'm not saying george is right or martin was right. I believe it was just two wanna be tough guys that ended up in a bad situation and one was better prepared to live another day. Might not be a good life but he made a decision in a split second that now will dictate the rest of his life.

No it doesn't. I'm not questioning your intention when you set out with a gun in your pocket, or your right by law to do so. But you cannot deny that the mere possession of the gun, and the possibility of circumstances arising in which you use it, could end up with you committing what a court may define as murder.

[giovanni_hotel]

THe problem is Travyon told his GF almost from the moment he entered the gated community from 7-11 that someone, who happened to be George Zimmerman, was following him. If someone is following you for 3+ blocks, gets out of their car and runs you down, a reasonable person is allowed to think they're being stalked.

Have any of you ever been followed by a stranger for a period a time and then were confronted by them??

I've been 'followed' by a person I didn't recognize at first when I've been out in unfamiliar potentially dangerous locations, and in those few seconds your mind goes extremely negative, fight or flight mode totally kicks in inside your head.

When a stranger runs up on you after following you for several blocks inside their SUV, no normal person is thinking, 'I wonder what this nice gentleman wants to talk to me about?'

If my Black ass was following some of you gun toters in my ride and then suddenly I got out of my car and ran up on you, I doubt any of you would be in the mood for polite conversation. In fact I bet most of you would have your firearm unholstered with your finger on the trigger.

Trayvon ran to AVOID A CONFRONTATION WITH GEORGE, and then felt he was cornered by this hispanic looking dude with a shaved head wearing a red jacket at night. I don't know where you're from, but IMO at night Zimmerman looks like a gang banger. Gang members confront 'strangers' all the time who enter their turf with some BS, 'what are you doing here?', and if you give the wrong answer the reply back could be a gunshot to the dome.

Why was Trayvon scared, scared enough to fight a stranger??

All this is compounded by the fact that Zimmerman for some reason thought this kid who from all reports was TALKING ON HIS CELLPHONE was about to commit a crime and looked dangerously suspicious.

Zimmerman IMO has borderline personality disorder and if he hadn't killed Travyon, eventually was going to gun down a 'suspicious looking BM' in Sanford.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4f864909eab8ead84a000020/george-zimmerman-mugshot.jpg
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2007/09/11/robertdeniro460.jpg
http://asfolhasardem.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/taxi-driver-pic2.png?w=500http://www.efsanesahneler.com/img/6995613731922_taxi-driver-martin-scorsese.jpg
http://noeltweet.fr/i/attachments/1/1325173054701944_large.jpghttp://www.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/13/no-easy-time-why-george-zimmerman-should-cop-a-plea/_jcr_content/body/inlineimage.img.503.jpg/1334306738701.jpg

[giovanni_hotel]

giovanni-
Where do you stand on the Redskins team name? I admit guilt on this one.


LOL!! Guilty as charged. Skins fan 4life!!!!

HTTR

[jamesedwards]

You fail to realize how the hell do you just walk up to someone with out probably identifying yourself? Trayvon didn't know who that character was he never identified himself, all he did was say "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE", is that how you talk to a stranger? If he was responsible and a professional he would of approached Trayvon as: "EXCUSE ME I AM GEORGE THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAPTAIN, THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW BREAK INS AROUND HERE AND I NEVER SEEN YOUR HERE BEFORE, YOU LIVE AROUND HERE? " In a tone that's not gangish or threatening. OR HE SHOULD OF STAYED HIS ASS IN THE SUV LIKE THE DISPATCHER TOLD HIM!!!!

Why don't you people see that? If he would of stayed his ass in the car Trayvon would be alive!!! Simple.

You said he was carrying because of what? Again you fail to realize as a watchmen the rule is "NOT TO CARRY A WEAPON" if he felt that dam scared he shouldn't have been a watchmen!!! Stop making rhetoric excuses that makes no dam since. Your logic is fallacious, no thinking on your part, as though you know nothing of this case.



he didn't stalk a unarmend young man he simply asked him what he was doing in the gated community in which he did not live. At this point if martin said i am staying at my dads while i am suspended from school he probably would be alive.

he never told the police they always get away with it, that was to a dispatcher.

he was carrying because he was out in the middle of the night by himself watching out for trouble while everybody else slept. It seems to me everytime he called 911 they blew him off. that would be why his statement was they get away with it because the 911 dispatchers were lazy and didn't do shit when he did call something suspicious in.

[jamesedwards]

Utter nonsense. :.

CTFU LOL EXACTLY!!! Dude talking in circles, rules this, prudence that, law here, justice there lol hahahah

Dudes ain't getting it, Zimmerman should of stayed his ass in the car. Trayvon wasn't a threat to Zimmerman, Trayvon DIDN'T HAVE A DAM WEAPON!!! Those are the facts.

Bottom line Zimmerman took a life because he wanted to be a dam hero. He took the law into his own hands and now a teen is dead because of it. Tray belonged in the neighborhood, his dad lived there so he was dead right being there. People are not seeing these facts they just bounce right around them.

[jamesedwards]

THANK YOU MR GIOVANNI!!! Profound well written. Dudes wanna talk so technical they sound stupid. See that's the problem people are looking to support Zimmerman and not looking at both sides, Zimmerman's side is fucked up!!! Trayvon side is dead on because 1. he made a call said he was being followed 2. he belonged in the gated community because of his father and not on the prowl as Zimmerman thought 3. It shows he went to the 7/11 store 4. He was not threatening nor a gang banger 5. He was definitely killed for no apparent reason.

Zimmerman 1. Violate behavior even told by his friends 2. Violate against his girl friend so bad she had to put a restraining order against him in 2005. 3. Violate against police in 2005. 4. Wanted so bad to be a cop but failed. 5. Was told not to engage the teen but he didn't listen and took the law into his own hands. 6. Lied and said he had a broken nose. 7. Approached Trayvon in the wrong manner. 8. Should of kept his ass in the SUV!!!


THe problem is Travyon told his GF almost from the moment he entered the gated community from 7-11 that someone, who happened to be George Zimmerman, was following him. If someone is following you for 3+ blocks, gets out of their car and runs you down, a reasonable person is allowed to think they're being stalked.

Have any of you ever been followed by a stranger for a period a time and then were confronted by them??

I've been 'followed' by a person I didn't recognize at first when I've been out in unfamiliar potentially dangerous locations, and in those few seconds your mind goes extremely negative, fight or flight mode totally kicks in inside your head.

When a stranger runs up on you after following you for several blocks inside their SUV, no normal person is thinking, 'I wonder what this nice gentleman wants to talk to me about?'

If my Black ass was following some of you gun toters in my ride and then suddenly I got out of my car and ran up on you, I doubt any of you would be in the mood for polite conversation. In fact I bet most of you would have your firearm unholstered with your finger on the trigger.

Trayvon ran to AVOID A CONFRONTATION WITH GEORGE, and then felt he was cornered by this hispanic looking dude with a shaved head wearing a red jacket at night. I don't know where you're from, but IMO at night Zimmerman looks like a gang banger. Gang members confront 'strangers' all the time who enter their turf with some BS, 'what are you doing here?', and if you give the wrong answer the reply back could be a gunshot to the dome.

Why was Trayvon scared, scared enough to fight a stranger??

All this is compounded by the fact that Zimmerman for some reason thought this kid who from all reports was TALKING ON HIS CELLPHONE was about to commit a crime and looked dangerously suspicious.

Zimmerman IMO has borderline personality disorder and if he hadn't killed Travyon, eventually was going to gun down a 'suspicious looking BM' in Sanford.

[jamesedwards]

Zimmerman IMO has borderline personality disorder and if he hadn't killed Travyon, eventually was going to gun down a 'suspicious looking BM' in Sanford.

EXACTLY!!! If you looked at how he entered the court room he has a dismal crazy look on his face, he looked out of touch. He needs to be locked up before he kills another person!!!

[jamesedwards]

Another thing these supporters of Zimmerman is forgetting THE MAN IS A PATHETIC LIAR!!!

He said himself from the police report "I WAS ATTACKED BY TRAYVON FROM BEHIND ON MY LEFT SIDE AS I TRIED TO GET INTO MY SUV".

That's a dam lie!!! I saw the lay out of the gated community, Trayvon and Zimmerman tangled in the GRASS area within the gated community this is how witnesses were able to see and hear what was going on, the car was outside of the gated community parked. If you listen to Zimmerman you can hear him give the dispatcher complete details of where Trayvon was headed into the gated community around a corner of some sort, and you hear Zimmerman stop his vehicle and get out and walk or jog towards Trayvon. He even knocked on someone's door while he was on the phone and he was no where near the dam car.

Self defense was planned in Zimmerman's mind already he knew if he was going to get in a situation and shoot someone he was going to claim self defense.

Now if it's stand your ground law, Zimmerman went AFTER Trayvon, that doesn't show that Zimmerman was threatened because he was in pursuit of another person. Trayvon was the one that could use Stand Your Ground, he was the prey and Zimmerman was the predator!!! You can't claim self defense if you went after someone, that doesn't show he was cornered but yet cornered another human being.

HE IS A DAM LIAR!!! A PSYCHOTIC ONE AT THAT!!!

[InHouston]

Utter nonsense. We all know exactly what SYG laws are about: little boys with rich fantasy lives want to play with their toys out in public and play vigilante hero. We've seen what happens when such laws are on the books. THE LAW IS A BIG PROBLEM, not to mention the idiots (training or not) who carry concealed weapons. Men carry their guns out in the open. Real men don't carry at all. Like you need a gun in a gated community:rolleyes:.

Look at it this way: Needless endangerment resulting in death falls under the category of manslaughter. Being negligent of the risks of your actions to the lives of unarmed kids is reckless endangerment. When it ends in death it's a homicide.

Zimmerman did not make a tactical error. He was negligent, reckless. His action was "stupid" and "dangerous." Those are your words. Don't go flip-flopping on me now. Tactical...right:rolleyes:.

This is they we have the Castle Doctrine Law here in Texas. This white woman had her baby at a pediatric clinic, and a black woman walked up, shot her several times while demanding her baby and ran off with her baby, ran over the mother with her car and left her there to die. I heard this live on my police scanner, and happened just a few miles from my home.

I suppose the white woman was in the wrong right?


http://www.khou.com/home/Photos--147924395.html

[onmyknees]

I see the amateur attorneys are still thrashing this out. Thought this was interesting in that early on in this case, and this thread, you all were pretty convinced Zimmerman was at best a racist, at worst a racial profiler. Interesting You Tube Clip........... paging Jesse....Sharpire....Spike....Anybody there? Seems they've moved on to stoke the fires of the next incident. And tell me again ....just what was the evidence he was a racist? And once more all together....in case you need it spelled out for you again...I'm not defending Zimmerman, or anyone else for that matter. This piece of evidence speaks to the racial issue you all are so invested in. It does not speak to the overall guilt or innocence of Zimmerman with respect to the shooting...., but where will you be if the racial aspect is shown to be fallacious?


Mark Nejame with Zimmerman family photo - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHmEIlOg35k)

[giovanni_hotel]

Having Black bloodlines doesn't make you immune from being a bigot.
That would be like me saying since my great-great-great-grandfather was half white, there's no way at all I could have any animus against White people.( I don't have any btw, just saying one's parentage in this type of discussion is trite.)

I'd bet you for damn sure that George Zimmerman doesn't self identify as Black.lol

I know Blacks who are racially biased against other Blacks, and I know WHites who look down at other Whites because of their socio-economic background.

Zimmerman IMO is a psychopath. His tendency to stereotype Black men when he's cruising his gated community just fits his profile as a paranoid.

Some guys when they are carrying a piece achieve almost a zen like calm, think Clint Eastwood starring in a Sergio Leone western. Their firearm gives them that much of a sense of security and complete control.

THen there are guys like Zimmerman who having a firearm on their person gives them a greater sense of anxiety about the world around them, as if having the gun makes them more fearful of their surroundings like Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.

[Lover]

Trayvon Martin Gun Range Targets - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPzUIbyN-vY)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/11/trayvon-martin-gun-range-targets-sold-out-in-two-days/

[buttslinger]

Maybe Romney can put Zimmerman on the ticket as VP and secure the tea party vote, Sheeesh....

[jamesedwards]

That video means nothing, and Zimmerman doesn't classify nor is his identity status of that of African American, what are you insane? He thinks he is Caucasian and he thinks he's above the law. Now show me a document where he signed where he said he's African descent, show that.


I see the amateur attorneys are still thrashing this out. Thought this was interesting in that early on in this case, and this thread, you all were pretty convinced Zimmerman was at best a racist, at worst a racial profiler. Interesting You Tube Clip........... paging Jesse....Sharpire....Spike....Anybody there? Seems they've moved on to stoke the fires of the next incident. And tell me again ....just what was the evidence he was a racist? And once more all together....in case you need it spelled out for you again...I'm not defending Zimmerman, or anyone else for that matter. This piece of evidence speaks to the racial issue you all are so invested in. It does not speak to the overall guilt or innocence of Zimmerman with respect to the shooting...., but where will you be if the racial aspect is shown to be fallacious?


Mark Nejame with Zimmerman family photo - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHmEIlOg35k)

[jamesedwards]

Zimmerman IMO is a psychopath. His tendency to stereotype Black men when he's cruising his gated community just fits his profile as a paranoid.

.

YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD SIR!!!! Baaaaaaaaaaam! The dude is a nut case and need to be locked up so this won't happen again. It's pure evidence that he chased down a teen just because he never seen him in the area before.

[yodajazz]

This is they we have the Castle Doctrine Law here in Texas. This white woman had her baby at a pediatric clinic, and a black woman walked up, shot her several times while demanding her baby and ran off with her baby, ran over the mother with her car and left her there to die. I heard this live on my police scanner, and happened just a few miles from my home.

I suppose the white woman was in the wrong right?


http://www.khou.com/home/Photos--147924395.html

There are crazy people of all races. Yes this is a very terrible thing to happen to anyone. But do you think that mothers should carry loaded guns with their diaper bags, and crying infants? I would bet money that more mothers would injure themselves or others, going thru post partem depression, while carrying loaded weapons, than the amount saved from being attacked by a crazy person. More guns is not the answer. They cannot protect from a crazy person shooting you without warning.

If you look at human nature, will see that far many more people treasure, and protect mothers and infants. The world's population is at an all time high. Those who live in fear of the worst, often miss seeing all the love, and good things out there.

[GroobySteven]

http://www.change.org/petitions/virginia-attorney-general-ken-cuccinelli-take-action-against-hiller-armament-company-for-trayvon-targets?utm_campaign=BEhnWPiUyq&utm_medium=email&utm_source=action_alert

In the past couple of days, news sources have reported that the Hiller Armament Company of Virginia has been selling gun targets that look like Trayvon Martin, complete with a hoodie, Skittles, and iced tea.
It's not just vile, it's possibly illegal: Virginia law says that no one can profit off of the likeness of any person without his consent -- even if that person has been killed. But as soon as reporters started asking questions, the Hiller Armament Company shut down its website and disconnected its phone.
Tahir Duckett lives in Virginia, and he wants Virginia's Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, to investigate the Hiller Armament Company and punish them if they have broken the law.
http://change-production.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/7/ct/qx/MZCTQxONYIrUIux-320x240-cropped.jpg?1336775879

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.change.org/petitions/virginia-attorney-general-ken-cuccinelli-take-action-against-hiller-armament-company-for-trayvon-targets?utm_campaign=BEhnWPiUyq&utm_medium=email&utm_source=action_alert

In the past couple of days, news sources have reported that the Hiller Armament Company of Virginia has been selling gun targets that look like Trayvon Martin, complete with a hoodie, Skittles, and iced tea.
It's not just vile, it's possibly illegal: Virginia law says that no one can profit off of the likeness of any person without his consent -- even if that person has been killed. But as soon as reporters started asking questions, the Hiller Armament Company shut down its website and disconnected its phone.
Tahir Duckett lives in Virginia, and he wants Virginia's Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, to investigate the Hiller Armament Company and punish them if they have broken the law.
http://change-production.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/7/ct/qx/MZCTQxONYIrUIux-320x240-cropped.jpg?1336775879
That's twisted. What sickos.

[jamesedwards]

Crazy, then they run like cowards lol

[robertlouis]

There are crazy people of all races. Yes this is a very terrible thing to happen to anyone. But do you think that mothers should carry loaded guns with their diaper bags, and crying infants? I would bet money that more mothers would injure themselves or others, going thru post partem depression, while carrying loaded weapons, than the amount saved from being attacked by a crazy person. More guns is not the answer. They cannot protect from a crazy person shooting you without warning.

If you look at human nature, will see that far many more people treasure, and protect mothers and infants. The world's population is at an all time high. Those who live in fear of the worst, often miss seeing all the love, and good things out there.

Ah yes, the best way to stop violence is to carry more guns.... Great argument.

[natina]

notice police charged with involuntary man slaughter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=XnDB1pe9XC8&NR=1




Fullerton, CA --- Two police officers will face felony charges in the death of Kelly Thomas, 37, who was brutally beaten by six Fullerton Police officers and died several days later from his severe injuries. The announcement was made on September 21, 2011 by the county prosecutor. Officer Manuel Ramos will be charged with one felony count of second degree murder and one felony count of involuntary manslaughter. Additionally, Crpl. Jay Cicinelli faces charges of involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.


POLICE BRUTALLY BEAT HOMELESS MAN CAUGHT ON TAPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qWxIHAnd47Y

ZIMMERMAN IS TOAST! TRAVON MARTIN WAS SCREAMING FOR HELP!

[jamesedwards]

Thank you for the news, that is crazy.



notice police charged with involuntary man slaughter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=XnDB1pe9XC8&NR=1




Fullerton, CA --- Two police officers will face felony charges in the death of Kelly Thomas, 37, who was brutally beaten by six Fullerton Police officers and died several days later from his severe injuries. The announcement was made on September 21, 2011 by the county prosecutor. Officer Manuel Ramos will be charged with one felony count of second degree murder and one felony count of involuntary manslaughter. Additionally, Crpl. Jay Cicinelli faces charges of involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.


POLICE BRUTALLY BEAT HOMELESS MAN CAUGHT ON TAPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qWxIHAnd47Y

ZIMMERMAN IS TOAST! TRAVON MARTIN WAS SCREAMING FOR HELP!

[natina]

Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
s on MySpace Page

A MySpace page has surfaced that shows Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Mexicans and boasted about escaping from legal problems.

While the page is dated from 2005 and has not been used for some time, lawyers on both sides say the social media page could become a factor in the case against Zimmerman, who is accused of shooting the unarmed African-American teenager in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

The page, titled, "only to be a king again," shows Zimmerman sounding off against Mexicans and celebrating his evasion of charges after a fight with a law enforcement officer.

In a possible reference to an alleged 2005 domestic violence incident, Zimmerman also uses a disparaging slang word for prostitute against his former girlfriend. Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family, says the page shows Zimmerman has a history of racial profiling.

WHAT A BROKEN NOSE LOOKS LIKE
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03...been-arrested/ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-been-arrested/)

Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman’s 2005 MySpace page “includes disparaging remarks about Mexicans.” (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/05/02/trayvon-martin-killer-george-zimmermans-2005-myspace-page-includes-disparaging-remarks-about-mexicans/)
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/george-zimmerman/ (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/george-zimmerman/)


According to the Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html), Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.
In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html



That video means nothing, and Zimmerman doesn't classify nor is his identity status of that of African American, what are you insane? He thinks he is Caucasian and he thinks he's above the law. Now show me a document where he signed where he said he's African descent, show that.

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/03/gzimmermanpublicrecord-thumb-640xauto-5674.jpg


Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
s on MySpace Page

A MySpace page has surfaced that shows Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Mexicans and boasted about escaping from legal problems.

While the page is dated from 2005 and has not been used for some time, lawyers on both sides say the social media page could become a factor in the case against Zimmerman, who is accused of shooting the unarmed African-American teenager in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

The page, titled, "only to be a king again," shows Zimmerman sounding off against Mexicans and celebrating his evasion of charges after a fight with a law enforcement officer.

In a possible reference to an alleged 2005 domestic violence incident, Zimmerman also uses a disparaging slang word for prostitute against his former girlfriend. Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family, says the page shows Zimmerman has a history of racial profiling.

[natina]

ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite)





Criminally Negligent Homicide





(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)



What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.



Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:



-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator



-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program



-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement




Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.



He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.





In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,



or the firing of the gun.



Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.



If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...






then he's guilty under the law

[jamesedwards]

then he's guilty under the law[/CENTER]

Exactly :werd:, I concur

[natina]

Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjLoUue

George Zimmerman Arrested! Father A Judge; Above The Law

April 11th, 2012 Update:
George Zimmerman was arrested Wednesday on a charge of second degree murder in the death of 17 year old Trayvon Martin. According to his attorney, a warrant for his arrest was declared and he is now in the custody of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
The Murder could have been prevented: More expected actions

The public is demanding in addition to his arrest, more severe investigative and disciplinary actions into the obvious laxity and complicity in the Florida police department. The extreme delay it took in bringing a most glaring criminal charge elucidates a deficit in department conduct.
Late March, the Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte had said (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/28/1078649/-Department-of-Justice-says-it-will-investigate-Sanford-Police-Dept-) that so many people complained at the city commission meeting about Sanford officers, the city asked the Department of Justice to step in.

“I am now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and investigated by an independent agency,” Bonaparte said.
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg (http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg)Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Stepped down temporarily earlier. Bonaparte stands behind in image

Police criminal negligence?

There were obvious lapses in judgement and execution of police protocol favorable to this judge’s son that in the first place allowed this dangerous criminal with past records of violence against police, carry a concealed weapon, hunt his neighbors- which the police were well aware of- culminating in his- Zimmermans murder of Trayvon. And more severe abnormalities in the department that allowed his release from custody after the crime, even though ‘unnecessary man slaughter’ had been written on his folder.
Further, the declaration of Trayvon ‘missing’ for three days while his family searched for him, when the police had his personal information as is seen in the image above, from the day of the murder, raises the instance of ‘aiding and abetting and concealing’ murder within the department.
March 27th, 2012; Updated March 29th {Video of Zimmerman arriving at police precinct}
George Zimmerman Arrested Thrice! Father A Judge; Above The Law

NewsRescue- That George Zimmerman is yet eluding justice defies all logic and sets dangerous precedence in the United States- that individuals of all races with prior arrests for dangerous activity including violently resisting arrest- beating up the arresting officer- can posses a concealed weapon, in civilian clothes, advance toward anyone they deem suspicious and shoot dead that individual if he is combative or resistant to their advance.
George Zimmerman’s white father, Judge Robert J. Zimmerman as quoted below, described George as a ‘Spanish speaking minority’, painting him as neither Jewish, nor white. Well, being Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) must then be a religion and not a heritage, and being white must only be matrilineal as paternal contributions must not reflect, in his fathers point of view.
George Zimmerman is as Hispanic as Obama is White, after all, Obama’s mom is white, just like George’s mom is from Cuba, while Obama’s dad is black, just as Zimmerman’s dad is White. Perhaps Judge Robert Zimmerman suggests we apply the ‘one-drop’ rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule).



George Zimmerman clearly disobeyed police instructions before assassinating the teen. Here is exactly what the dispatcher said:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
But as we now know, Zimmerman’s history of police disobedience is not new, what is odd is the Police, government and main stream media reaction to this clearly dangerous precedent.
One of the most factual analysis’ of the case thus far can be read below:
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/examiner-logo.jpg (http://www.examiner.com/)
Bill Schmalfeldt
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html)revealed a telling piece of information Friday that has been missed by many of the media outlets covering the slaying of 17-year old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch captain on Feb. 26.

“The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading,” his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. “Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.”
“George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends,” Robert Zimmerman wrote. “He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.” (Emphasis added.)
Might this explain why, when he was first taken to police headquarters on Feb. 26, the lead investigator wanted to bring charges against Zimmerman, saying he was unconvinced of the 28-year old’s description of events.
ABC News reports:
(http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3JPwI6vo_f)

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239) recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256) be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
According to Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/27/453123/lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-and-charge-zimmerman/), Wolfinger has since removed himself from the case.
Was Wolfinger doing a favor for a retired judge? The blog Hinterland Gazette (http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-murder-inflammatory-rhetoric-rev-jesse-jackson-threatens-focus-crucial-issues.html) believes that may be the case.

It should be noted that George Zimmerman may have received favorable treatment from the police because of his family. ‎According to court records, his father is retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert Zimmerman and his mother Gladys Zimmerman was a court clerk. Connections in the legal community run deep and go far.
Might this also explain the younger Zimmerman’s record that includes three “closed arrests”?
Related: NewsRescue-Zimmerman murder of US black teen Trayvon Martin in Florida finally gets attention (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-murder-of-us-black-teen-trayvon-martin-in-florida-finally-gets-attention/)


Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjhtRpa




http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#axzz1uni1jbe4


http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/zimmerman-arrest-examiner-618x462.jpg

[jamesedwards]

Dam you need to be Trayvon's family attorney. There's no way he should get off, that man with the evidence that's out should do time. We all know he actually killed an unarmed man.





http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/zimmerman-arrest-examiner-618x462.jpg

[buds]

Dam you need to be Trayvon's family attorney.

I'm confused, why would martins family need a attorney?

[natina]

to speak to the media and for the CIVIL SUIT WHICH HAS LESS OF A BURDEN OF PROOF THEN THE CRIMINAL CHARGES.

INTERVIEWS ON TV OR PAID EXCEPT FOR OPRAH,SHE DOES NOT PAY HER GUEST



I'm confused, why would martins family need a attorney?

[jamesedwards]

I'm confused, why would martins family need a attorney?

I'm confused why would you ask that question?

[buds]

to speak to the media and for the CIVIL SUIT WHICH HAS LESS OF A BURDEN OF PROOF THEN THE CRIMINAL CHARGES.

INTERVIEWS ON TV OR PAID EXCEPT FOR OPRAH,SHE DOES NOT PAY HER GUEST

In order

there is no need to talk to the media.
I see the plan for the civil suit because there is a slim chance of winning this in a real court, even if it makes it past the *stand your ground* hearing.
back to there is no reason to be in the media.

As for Doprah, why is she even part of this?

[buds]

I'm confused why would you ask that question?

Only because you brought it up. and

I see plenty of people killed and the family never has a laywer as the state handles the prosecution.

[natina]

you have to play to the public just like the defense did to win an impression or imagine

the defense started with lots of propaganda


it war!

STAND YOUR GROUND LAW WON'T PROTECT ZIMMERMAN BUT HIS ATTORNEY WILL FILE A MOTON FOR IT ANY WHO

stand your ground law does not protect zimmerman

Author and NRA member Dave Kopel says Florida law does not protect George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iid=article_sidebar#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/30/exp-point-kopel-one.cnn

[jamesedwards]

Only because you brought it up. and

I see plenty of people killed and the family never has a laywer as the state handles the prosecution.



Again I am confused by what you believe and what you're surrounded by.

MIRANDA RIGHTS
"You have the right to speak to an attorney.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.".

So what's your question again?

[natina]

Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-12/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-charged-jail-20120412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident

[buds]

Again I am confused by what you believe and what you're surrounded by.

MIRANDA RIGHTS
"You have the right to speak to an attorney.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.".

So what's your question again?

Martins family was read its rights??? I didn't know that.

[jamesedwards]

Martins family was read its rights??? I didn't know that.

:whoa You are one of those huh?

You claimed you seen people killed am I correct?
"I see plenty of people killed and the family never has a laywer as the state handles the prosecution"

So I put up the Miranda's rights to let you see that if you don't have a lawyer the courts will appoint one for you, just as a guide, no Trayvon's parents weren't arrested, but they need an attorney, not STATE APPOINTED PROSECUTORS to handle other things like a civil suit against the police station etc.

Now what I meant when I said Natina should be the attorney on the case it could mean the prosecution or personal attorney because Natina has a lot of facts and she present them well. So you shouldn't be confused. All in all the prosecution is not only for the state guy but for Trayvon's family as well.

[buds]

Yes i am one of "those".
Posting stuff found on the internet does not make a laywer only a researcher. Just like the guy who kills someone might not be a murderer.........

Gotta love the innocent untill proven guilty mentality here. I'm sorry for trying to bring another side to your media fed lynching.

I'll go away now

[natina]

innocent until proven guilty is only in the courts

a citizen can say you Are guilty until proven innocent or you are highly suspect so do not trust you but that could make you paranoid.
you have o use your best judgment

[trish]

Natina is correct, the public has no burden of proof. Funny isn't it...that the police on the scene interpreted the SYG law as saying that Zimmerman had no burden of proof either before he found Trayvon guilty of being a life threatening, skittles armed, hoodie wearing, African-American seventeen year old kid and sot him dead? What's good for the goose...

[jamesedwards]

Ok, on the contrary to what you said, I have worked in the legal system for 12 years so ummmmm don't do the "THINK YOU KNOW WHO I AM" and the things Natina is pointing out and showing is actual evidence, yet you have provided none yet only babble about what should and who shouldn't rhetoric. Counter act her evidence IF YOU CAN!!!

Fact is Zimmerman killed a teen in cold blood if you can even find the imf of an inkling of logical proof to prove that wrong, I will take my hat off to you!!!

You also tell me how the hell can a teen be called a dam John Doe for three days and they got his info, you tell me that Mr. You know what the fuck you're talking about. You tell me how the hell a man goes to neighborhood watch training and the rule says 1. don't carry a weapon 2. don't engage a person call the police. Zimmerman violated both rules, why? Because he intended to shoot someone that's why he carried the dam gun. You tell me what he carried it for, decorations? Zimmerman : "OH I THINK I WILL CARRY A LOADED GUN BECAUSE IT LOOKS SO BEAUTIFUL ON MY HIP". Fuck outta here with that crap!!!

You tell me how the fuck Zimmerman assault and officer of the law in 2005 and get released then kills a teen and gets released when he was docked in a manslaughter position on a police report then let go. How the hell the Police Dept say he had a clean record when he also assaulted his girlfriend and she got a restraining order against him. This clearly shows he is a violate ass man he has a dam history, so is that a lie too?

Did he not kill the teen? How the hell Zimmerman say he got clocked over his head on his left side at his SUV when the SUV was not where they were? They were inside the dam complex on THE GRASS!!! This is stated by witnesses. So you mean Trayvon dragged him all the way in the gated community? If you heard the tape Zimmerman said himself Trayvon ran around a corner, and you can hear Zimmerman get out of his car and go after him, FROM HIS SUV!!! Zimmerman is a coward and he lied.

Also are you trying to tell me the records of Tray's girlfriend is not adequate evidence that you can hear Trayvon saying "SOMEONE IS FOLLOWING ME"? This is pure evidence that Zimmerman went after Trayvon and THE STAND YOUR GROUND DON'T APPLY TO HIS ASS!! and I can go on and on!!!

There's so much evidence on this clown it's pathetic he should be locked away!!!

In this case Zimmerman is a murderer!!! A killer pick your poison!!!

Plus you're talking to the wrong person, at best your aim is very week!!!


Yes i am one of "those".
Posting stuff found on the internet does not make a laywer only a researcher. Just like the guy who kills someone might not be a murderer.........

Gotta love the innocent untill proven guilty mentality here. I'm sorry for trying to bring another side to your media fed lynching.

I'll go away now

[jamesedwards]

Natina is correct, the public has no burden of proof. Funny isn't it...that the police on the scene interpreted the SYG law as saying that Zimmerman had no burden of proof either before he found Trayvon guilty of being a life threatening, skittles armed, hoodie wearing, African-American seventeen year old kid and sot him dead? What's good for the goose...

Exactly, these Zimmerman supporters they look so stupid supporting him, it's their right to do so but in the process they look stupid, and they know it. They can't give one shred of logical evidence that shows Zimmerman is innocent.

[natina]

A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


Here's a Mother's Day message from Sabrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, made in partnership with "Second Chance on Shoot First" -- an organization which combats laws, such as Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, that encourage nervous gun owners to shoot in haste and repent at leisure.
Watch the video AFTER THE JUMP (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#more), and pay a visit to Second Chance on Shoot First (http://secondchancecampaign.org/), which allows American visitors to see where their states stand on Stand Your Ground, and provides links to the appropriate state webpages so visitors can tell their governments how they feel about it.



http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv

[jamesedwards]

Natina thank you!!!!

[natina]

you are welcome!


A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv




A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


Here's a Mother's Day message from Sabrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, made in partnership with "Second Chance on Shoot First" -- an organization which combats laws, such as Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, that encourage nervous gun owners to shoot in haste and repent at leisure.
Watch the video AFTER THE JUMP (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#more), and pay a visit to Second Chance on Shoot First (http://secondchancecampaign.org/), which allows American visitors to see where their states stand on Stand Your Ground, and provides links to the appropriate state webpages so visitors can tell their governments how they feel about it.



http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


Natina thank you!!!!

[buttslinger]

like Natina said.

[InHouston]

So you want to take people's rights away from them to defend themselves? Here's a news story, just another textbook example, on why various states have Stand Your Ground laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/beating-suspect-could-face-additional-charges-in-wwii-vet-death/

[GroobySteven]

So you want to take people's rights away from them to defend themselves? Here's a news story, just another textbook example, on why various states have Stand Your Ground laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/beating-suspect-could-face-additional-charges-in-wwii-vet-death/

Sad - but irrelevant to this completely.

[notdrunk]

So you want to take people's rights away from them to defend themselves? Here's a news story, just another textbook example, on why various states have Stand Your Ground laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/beating-suspect-could-face-additional-charges-in-wwii-vet-death/

I assume you know the law. So, what is the difference between the Castle doctrine and a stand-your-ground law? If you do know the difference, why are you mentioning the stand-your-ground law for that horrible crime? Wouldn't the Castle doctrine matter in that case?

[Stavros]

I assume you know the law. So, what is the difference between the Castle doctrine and a stand-your-ground law? If you do know the difference, why are you mentioning the stand-your-ground law for that horrible crime? Wouldn't the Castle doctrine matter in that case?
Can't delete this for some reason -what happened to the delete button?

[Stavros]

I assume you know the law. So, what is the difference between the Castle doctrine and a stand-your-ground law? If you do know the difference, why are you mentioning the stand-your-ground law for that horrible crime? Wouldn't the Castle doctrine matter in that case?

Because the SYG is a law and not a doctrine I think. Wikipedia has this definition, although I am sure the 'Make my Day' phrase was first used in Dirty Harry.

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine)


A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal doctrine that designates a person's abode (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as a car or place of work) as a place in which the person has certain protections and immunities and may in certain circumstances use force, up to and including deadly force, to defend against an intruder without becoming liable to prosecution. Typically deadly force is considered justified, and a defense of justifiable homicide applicable, in cases "when the actor reasonably fears imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to himself or another".The doctrine is not a defined law that can be invoked, but a set of principles which is incorporated in some form in the law of most states.
The term derives from the historic English common law dictum that "an Englishman's home is his castle". This concept was established as English law by 17th century jurist Sir Edward Coke, in his The Institutes of the Laws of England, 1628.This was carried by colonists to the New World, who later removed "Englishman" from the phrase, which thereby became simply the Castle Doctrine.The term has been used to imply a person's absolute right in England to exclude anyone from their home, although this has always had restrictions, and since the late twentieth century bailiffs have also had increasing powers of entry.
The term "Make My Day Law" arose at the time of the 1985 Colorado statute that protects people from any criminal charge or civil suit if they use force – including deadly force – against an invader of the home.The law's nickname is a reference to the line "Go ahead, make my day" uttered by actor Clint Eastwood's character Harry Callahan in the 1983 film Sudden Impact, inviting a suspect to make himself liable to deadly retaliation by attacking Callahan.

[notdrunk]

Because the SYG is a law and not a doctrine I think. Wikipedia has this definition, although I am sure the 'Make my Day' phrase was first used in Dirty Harry.



Only have a handful of states haven't incorporated the doctrine into their laws. So, the doctrine is law in the vast majority of states. The SYG law is different from Castle doctrine.

[trish]

And both doctrines are wanting for improvements. They both have the following form: Under certain circumstances (call them C), a person (call him P) can use deadly force to protect him- or herself without becoming liable to prosecution. But surely we can't just take P's word for it that circumstances C pertained. Yet it appears that's the way many (including some of Florida's enforcement community) would like to interpret these doctrines. SYG and Castle doctrines as currently understood do not lessen crime or increase safety. They increase the probability of violence and tragedy. More guns on the streets or in the home do not make the streets or the home safer.

[Stavros]

I am not defending anyone who breaks into someone else's home, but there have been cases of 'self-defence' where, when the details are revealed, the 'self-defence' is not shown to be a spontaneous reaction to invasion, but a calculated response to someone who, perhaps living in a rough neighbourhood, is 'ready and wating' for someone to 'bring it on'. In a curious coincidence, there was a celebrated case in the UK with another 'Martin', this time a man living in 'Bleak House' (honest) who had been burgled so many times he slept with a shotgun by his bed. He shot dead one of two burglars and was put on trial for murder, and found guilty but at appeal it was changed to manslaughter.
Tony Martin (farmer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29)

[InHouston]

And both doctrines are wanting for improvements. They both have the following form: Under certain circumstances (call them C), a person (call him P) can use deadly force to protect him- or herself without becoming liable to prosecution. But surely we can't just take P's word for it that circumstances C pertained. Yet it appears that's the way many (including some of Florida's enforcement community) would like to interpret these doctrines. SYG and Castle doctrines as currently understood do not lessen crime or increase safety. They increase the probability of violence and tragedy. More guns on the streets or in the home do not make the streets or the home safer.


And both doctrines are wanting for improvements. They both have the following form: Under certain circumstances (call them C), a person (call him P) can use deadly force to protect him- or herself without becoming liable to prosecution. But surely we can't just take P's word for it that circumstances C pertained. Yet it appears that's the way many (including some of Florida's enforcement community) would like to interpret these doctrines. SYG and Castle doctrines as currently understood do not lessen crime or increase safety. They increase the probability of violence and tragedy. More guns on the streets or in the home do not make the streets or the home safer.




Under certain circumstances means one thing and one thing only. If you are in fear of your life or physical safety. And that’s it. With a concealed handgun license and the Castle Doctrine, you can’t pull a gun on someone for cutting you off on the freeway. If you unintentionally cut someone off while making a lane change, and the person started beating you up in your car in a road rage incident, then you can use lethal force to protect “life”. And is a case that happened here not too long ago, and no charges were pressed against the person who defended himself. He was a doctor, never been in a fight with anyone, and a 200 pound lughead smashed his window out, pinned him in his car and started beating the crap out of him with a tire-iron because he didn’t agree with the way the doctor made a lane change. The doctor had no choice but to pull his weapon and fire, not to kill him, but to stop the attack. The attacker died as a result, but no charges were pressed against the doctor, and the Castle Doctrine provides no civil liability on your part from family members for wrongful death.


There was another incident where a man with a concealed handgun license, pulled his weapon and fired at a car that cut him off. The police slammed him in jail for deadly conduct and the Texas Department of Public Safety revoked his right to conceal a firearm and sentenced him to 60 days in the county jail with a felony; thereby permanently disqualifying him from renewing his right to even own a firearm at all. The law works, and it works well for people who understand it. Those who don’t, and try to usurp the law thinking they can whip out their gun because someone miffed them will have a crude awakening waiting for them by the state.



The Castle Doctrine Law here in Texas not only sanctions you by the state to defend yourself in your home, to defend your property, to defend yourself in your car, but also to defend yourself outright apart and away from all the above. The Castle Doctrine was ratified in Texas due to the rash of violent home invasions and violent car jacking’s that occur on a near daily basis in this state, and other states as well, where people are often killed by the attackers. If you’re not safe in your home or your car, then where can you be safe?


A subset of the Castle Doctrine law is the 3rd person defense statute. You are morally obligated to come to the defense of a 3rd person or their property if you witness a felony being perpetrated against them. That doesn’t imply that you’re legally obligated. The state gives you the choice to defend someone else, or to retreat. That’s what Joe Horn did in Pasadena when he saw two burglars making off with his neighbor’s property. He told the dispatcher, “I’m going to kill em”, and went out in his yard and rightfully put buck shot into the backs of those burglars that took off running. No charges were filed, and our Texas Senator Sheila Jackson Lee got pissed and tried to coordinate a civil lawsuit against him for unlawful death. The courts shut her up, told her “no”, and sent her stupid dumb-ass back to Washington.

There is no rhyme or reason for any civilian to have to endure people crawling through their windows in their homes. That’s what the law is about. They’re crazy to be doing that anyway, and need to be shot. The law provides for that defense.

[InHouston]

I am not defending anyone who breaks into someone else's home, but there have been cases of 'self-defence' where, when the details are revealed, the 'self-defence' is not shown to be a spontaneous reaction to invasion, but a calculated response to someone who, perhaps living in a rough neighbourhood, is 'ready and wating' for someone to 'bring it on'. In a curious coincidence, there was a celebrated case in the UK with another 'Martin', this time a man living in 'Bleak House' (honest) who had been burgled so many times he slept with a shotgun by his bed. He shot dead one of two burglars and was put on trial for murder, and found guilty but at appeal it was changed to manslaughter.
Tony Martin (farmer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29)

Maybe in the UK they convict people for defending themselves but not here. A case study in my CHL class was a Houston man who ran a recycling business, and kept waking up to find scores of recycled cans missing from his property that cost him money. He sat out at night keeping watch, and two unarmed white teenagers came crawling over his fence, and started bagging up more cans. He shot them both and killed them. Was that murder?

No. No charges were filed against him. You don’t go crawling into people’s homes and properties stealing from them or attacking them. In Texas, you’ll get shot and there isn’t a court in this state that will convict you for it. These two teenagers that did this were well on their way to escalating their crimes one day, and would have probably ended up tying up people in their homes and beating them for their cash and jewelry. You have to be out of your damn mind to go crawling onto the property of another to steal from them. You do that, you need to be shot.

[trish]

Regardless of what comprises circumstances C, we should not be compelled by law to take P's word that circumstances C were in fact present. There should be an investigation and perhaps a trail to ascertain that C was in fact descriptive of the actual situation. Otherwise you're opening the door for people to commit murder and walk free on their own say so with no risk of an investigation or a trial.

[trish]

You fear for your life and personal safety just because someone's crawling through your window?? For trespass you want to kill them? How cowardly is that? If I were on the jury, I would want to see real evidence that you feared for your life.

[Stavros]

Maybe in the UK they convict people for defending themselves but not here. A case study in my CHL class was a Houston man who ran a recycling business, and kept waking up to find scores of recycled cans missing from his property that cost him money. He sat out at night keeping watch, and two unarmed white teenagers came crawling over his fence, and started bagging up more cans. He shot them both and killed them. Was that murder?

No. No charges were filed against him. You don’t go crawling into people’s homes and properties stealing from them or attacking them. In Texas, you’ll get shot and there isn’t a court in this state that will convict you for it. These two teenagers that did this were well on their way to escalating their crimes one day, and would have probably ended up tying up people in their homes and beating them for their cash and jewelry. You have to be out of your damn mind to go crawling onto the property of another to steal from them. You do that, you need to be shot.


Your example doesn't explain why the recycling business was not better protected, which is the first line of defence. Second, you say he 'kept watch' which to me means he was pre-meditated in the killings, he was not reacting to a sudden invasion; its as if he wanted it to happen. He sounds to me like a psychopath.

As for your comment These two teenagers that did this were well on their way to escalating their crimes one day, and would have probably ended up tying up people in their homes and beating them for their cash and jewelry -this is an outrageous abuse of language, you have absolutely no idea at all what the future was for either or both of the teenagers. The comment says more about you than it does about them.

The thematic link with the thread this post is in, must relate to the state of mind that Zimmerman was in, and whether or not he shot Trayvon Martin as a spontaneous response, or had already determined that if there was a confrontation, his finger was on the trigger. I cannot get into the intricacies of US law, but natural law suggests that restraint on Zimmerman's part would have avoided a death; yes, the teenagers were wrong to go on the rob; but sitting there with a shotgun virtually begging someone to jump over the fence? That, in my opinion, is not natural.

[trish]

The NRA, once a simple organization for hunters and sportsmen, has now become a malignant tumor in the belly of what could still be a promising nation. The new rash of SYG and misconstrued castle laws are the toxic output of this sick cancer.

[giovanni_hotel]

Murder is not an acceptable response to the theft of property. That muthafucker killed two kids in cold blood for stealing......ALUMINUM CANS.

Where's the threat to the victim's life?? Where's the proportionality???

The penalty for theft is not MURDER.
WHat the fuck is wrong with Texas??? Jeezus Christ.

What I do know is that both those kids were poor and had no connections to the wealthy or powerful in their community. Only kids who are considered expendable are judged worthy of a death sentence for petty theft or trespassing.

[trish]

One obvious objection against the current rash of castle and stand-your-ground laws is they legalize justifiable homicide but forgoes the formal presentation of a justification. We just take the perp’s word for it.

The second objection is what counts for a justification, namely “fear for one’s life or personal safety.” Is that really a justification? A lot a people’s fears are simply irrational. In my mind, the only possible justification for homicide is a rational assessment that the continuance of your life depends decidedly on the termination of the other’s life; i.e. if the state can prove that there were rational choices open to the perp that would have avoided the death of the victim, then the homicide was not justifiable.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_images_540/images/2012_may/next.png

[martin48]

The NRA, once a simple organization for hunters and sportsmen, has now become a malignant tumor in the belly of what could still be a promising nation. The new rash of SYG and misconstrued castle laws are the toxic output of this sick cancer.

From this side of the pond, I fear you are a lone voice - someone prove me otherwise.

[jamesedwards]

Wow..............

[Queens Guy]

"Maybe in the UK they convict people for defending themselves but not here. A case study in my CHL class was a Houston man who ran a recycling business, and kept waking up to find scores of recycled cans missing from his property that cost him money. He sat out at night keeping watch, and two unarmed white teenagers came crawling over his fence, and started bagging up more cans. He shot them both and killed them. Was that murder?

No. No charges were filed against him.

x x x x x

Do you know the name of this case? There has to be more to the story. The kids had to have done something more than simply hop the fence and steal some cans. If that's all they did, then the shooter should have been arrested. They were trespassing, and even committing the felony of burglary, but that doesn't mean the shooter can say he was in fear of his life.

Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws don't change the fact that the shooter still has to prove that he was in fear of his life. The shooter can't just say he was in fear of his life. He has to pass the 'Reasonable Person' test. Would a Reasonable Person have been in fear of his life? Two Girl Scout s knock on your door to sell cookies? You can say you felt in fear for your life, but no Reasonable Person would have been scared by two girl scouts selling cookies . However, your daughter's ex-boyfriend breaks into your house holding a machete and heads to her bedroom to attack her? Well, thats a different story. You don't have to wait for him to break down her door, or swing the machete at you. SYG and CD just mean you can never be asked 'Why didn't you try to run?'.

Unless there is more to the story involving the guy who owned the recycling business, you may have been taught wrong in that CHL class.

[natina]

you are not allowed to used deadly force to defend property in calif

if some one steals from you then runs you can not use deadly force to stop them.

you can only use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon in calif



"Maybe in the UK they convict people for defending themselves but not here. A case study in my CHL class was a Houston man who ran a recycling business, and kept waking up to find scores of recycled cans missing from his property that cost him money. He sat out at night keeping watch, and two unarmed white teenagers came crawling over his fence, and started bagging up more cans. He shot them both and killed them. Was that murder?

No. No charges were filed against him.

x x x x x

Do you know the name of this case? There has to be more to the story. The kids had to have done something more than simply hop the fence and steal some cans. If that's all they did, then the shooter should have been arrested. They were trespassing, and even committing the felony of burglary, but that doesn't mean the shooter can say he was in fear of his life.

Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws don't change the fact that the shooter still has to prove that he was in fear of his life. The shooter can't just say he was in fear of his life. He has to pass the 'Reasonable Person' test. Would a Reasonable Person have been in fear of his life? Two Girl Scout s knock on your door to sell cookies? You can say you felt in fear for your life, but no Reasonable Person would have been scared by two girl scouts selling cookies . However, your daughter's ex-boyfriend breaks into your house holding a machete and heads to her bedroom to attack her? Well, thats a different story. You don't have to wait for him to break down her door, or swing the machete at you. SYG and CD just mean you can never be asked 'Why didn't you try to run?'.

Unless there is more to the story involving the guy who owned the recycling business, you may have been taught wrong in that CHL class.

[natina]

you are welcome!




A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, pursued him, frightened him, confronted him then shot him during a struggle, prosecutors alleged Thursday.

That's what the probable-cause affidavit filed Thursday by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey reveals. It is the first look at the criminal case that prosecutors plan to mount against Zimmerman.


The account is strikingly similar to the story that Trayvon's parents, the family's attorneys and civil-rights leaders have told for weeks — that Trayvon was an innocent victim hunted down and killed because he was black.

Herr found the affidavit legally sufficient to establish probable cause and ordered Zimmerman to appear for arraignment — when defendants formally enter a plea — on May 29 before Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

But the probable-cause affidavit, prepared by two investigators in her office, spelled out the bare bones of her case.

To Trayvon, it says, Zimmerman was a scary man, following him for some unknown reason. To Zimmerman, Trayvon was someone who was about to commit a crime, "a f------ punk," the affidavit said.

The affidavit offered evidence the state's position on three key points:

•"Zimmerman confronted Martin," it says, an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of events.

•The state will argue that the voice heard crying for help in the background of one 911 call is Trayvon's. According to the affidavit, Trayvon's mother listened to the recording and identified the voice as her son's.

•State investigators will rely on the testimony of a friend of Trayvon's who told them she talked to the teenager on the phone in the lead-up to the shooting and heard the confrontation.

Based on the description, she appears to be the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

When interviewed by state investigators, "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why," the affidavit said.

Trayvon tried to run home, the affidavit says, but Zimmerman ignored the advice of a police dispatcher and continued pursuing him on foot.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-12/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-charged-jail-20120412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident




A Mother's Day Message From Trayvon's Mom: VIDEO


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


Here's a Mother's Day message from Sabrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, made in partnership with "Second Chance on Shoot First" -- an organization which combats laws, such as Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, that encourage nervous gun owners to shoot in haste and repent at leisure.
Watch the video AFTER THE JUMP (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#more), and pay a visit to Second Chance on Shoot First (http://secondchancecampaign.org/), which allows American visitors to see where their states stand on Stand Your Ground, and provides links to the appropriate state webpages so visitors can tell their governments how they feel about it.



http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/a-mothers-day-message-from-trayvons-mom-video.html#ixzz1un9xiwfv


ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite)





Criminally Negligent Homicide






(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html)




What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.




Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:




-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator




-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program




-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement





Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.




He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.






In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,




or the firing of the gun.




Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.




If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...








then he's guilty under the law



Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjLoUue

George Zimmerman Arrested! Father A Judge; Above The Law

April 11th, 2012 Update:
George Zimmerman was arrested Wednesday on a charge of second degree murder in the death of 17 year old Trayvon Martin. According to his attorney, a warrant for his arrest was declared and he is now in the custody of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
The Murder could have been prevented: More expected actions

The public is demanding in addition to his arrest, more severe investigative and disciplinary actions into the obvious laxity and complicity in the Florida police department. The extreme delay it took in bringing a most glaring criminal charge elucidates a deficit in department conduct.
<B>Late March, the Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte had said (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/28/1078649/-Department-of-Justice-says-it-will-investigate-Sanford-Police-Dept-) that so many people complained at the city commission meeting about Sanford officers, the city asked the Department of Justice to step in.

“I am now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and investigated by an independent agency,” Bonaparte said.
</B>
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg (http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GETTY_N_032312_BillLee.jpg)Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Stepped down temporarily earlier. Bonaparte stands behind in image

Police criminal negligence?

There were obvious lapses in judgement and execution of police protocol favorable to this judge’s son that in the first place allowed this dangerous criminal with past records of violence against police, carry a concealed weapon, hunt his neighbors- which the police were well aware of- culminating in his- Zimmermans murder of Trayvon. And more severe abnormalities in the department that allowed his release from custody after the crime, even though ‘unnecessary man slaughter’ had been written on his folder.
Further, the declaration of Trayvon ‘missing’ for three days while his family searched for him, when the police had his personal information as is seen in the image above, from the day of the murder, raises the instance of ‘aiding and abetting and concealing’ murder within the department.
March 27th, 2012; Updated March 29th {Video of Zimmerman arriving at police precinct}
George Zimmerman Arrested Thrice! Father A Judge; Above The Law

NewsRescue- That George Zimmerman is yet eluding justice defies all logic and sets dangerous precedence in the United States- that individuals of all races with prior arrests for dangerous activity including violently resisting arrest- beating up the arresting officer- can posses a concealed weapon, in civilian clothes, advance toward anyone they deem suspicious and shoot dead that individual if he is combative or resistant to their advance.
George Zimmerman’s white father, Judge Robert J. Zimmerman as quoted below, described George as a ‘Spanish speaking minority’, painting him as neither Jewish, nor white. Well, being Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) must then be a religion and not a heritage, and being white must only be matrilineal as paternal contributions must not reflect, in his fathers point of view.
George Zimmerman is as Hispanic as Obama is White, after all, Obama’s mom is white, just like George’s mom is from Cuba, while Obama’s dad is black, just as Zimmerman’s dad is White. Perhaps Judge Robert Zimmerman suggests we apply the ‘one-drop’ rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule).



<B>George Zimmerman clearly disobeyed police instructions before assassinating the teen. Here is exactly what the dispatcher said:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
</B>

Zimmerman: Yah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
But as we now know, Zimmerman’s history of police disobedience is not new, what is odd is the Police, government and main stream media reaction to this clearly dangerous precedent.
One of the most factual analysis’ of the case thus far can be read below:
http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/examiner-logo.jpg (http://www.examiner.com/)
Bill Schmalfeldt
<B>CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html)revealed a telling piece of information Friday that has been missed by many of the media outlets covering the slaying of 17-year old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch captain on Feb. 26.

“The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading,” his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. “Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.”
</B>

“George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends,” Robert Zimmerman wrote. “He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.” (Emphasis added.)
Might this explain why, when he was first taken to police headquarters on Feb. 26, the lead investigator wanted to bring charges against Zimmerman, saying he was unconvinced of the 28-year old’s description of events.
ABC News reports: (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3JPwI6vo_f)
(http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3JPwI6vo_f)<B>

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239) recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256) be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
</B>

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
According to Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/27/453123/lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-and-charge-zimmerman/), Wolfinger has since removed himself from the case.
<B>Was Wolfinger doing a favor for a retired judge? The blog Hinterland Gazette (http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-murder-inflammatory-rhetoric-rev-jesse-jackson-threatens-focus-crucial-issues.html) believes that may be the case.

It should be noted that George Zimmerman may have received favorable treatment from the police because of his family. ‎According to court records, his father is retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert Zimmerman and his mother Gladys Zimmerman was a court clerk. Connections in the legal community run deep and go far.
</B>
Might this also explain the younger Zimmerman’s record that includes three “closed arrests”?
Related: NewsRescue-Zimmerman murder of US black teen Trayvon Martin in Florida finally gets attention (http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-murder-of-us-black-teen-trayvon-martin-in-florida-finally-gets-attention/)


Read more: http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#ixzz1unjhtRpa




http://www.newsrescue.com/2012/03/zimmerman-arrested-thrice-father-a-judge-above-the-law/#axzz1uni1jbe4


http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/zimmerman-arrest-examiner-618x462.jpg

[natina]

Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed




WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn

[natina]

new evidence /witness zimmerman on top of trayvon martin

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/21/exp-mxp-trayvon-girlfriend-phone.wplg-cnn


prosecutor new evidence released in trayvon martin shooting death

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/15/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[bobvela]

"Objection your honor! Hearsay. The witness was not present at the time of the death, and she has a history of refusing to co-operate with the investigation."

Never mind the medical records which have now surfaced: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

Zimmerman will walk... mark my words... he was over charged and will walk for the same reason that Casey Anthony did... the prosecution will not be able to prove their case to the degree charged.

[natina]

BULLSHIT!


What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.





Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:





-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator





-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program





-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement






Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.





He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.


"Objection your honor! Hearsay. The witness was not present at the time of the death, and she has a history of refusing to co-operate with the investigation."

Never mind the medical records which have now surfaced: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

Zimmerman will walk... mark my words... he was over charged and will walk for the same reason that Casey Anthony did... the prosecution will not be able to prove their case to the degree charged.

[giovanni_hotel]

"Objection your honor! Hearsay. The witness was not present at the time of the death, and she has a history of refusing to co-operate with the investigation."

Never mind the medical records which have now surfaced: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

Zimmerman will walk... mark my words... he was over charged and will walk for the same reason that Casey Anthony did... the prosecution will not be able to prove their case to the degree charged.


The jury options for sentencing are broader than they were in the Casey Anthony trial, I believe.

In the Casey Anthony trial, it was 1st degree murder or nothing, that's how I remember it however I still thought they would have had a wider range of sentencing guidelines.

With the Zimmerman trial, the prosecution is pursuing 2nd degree murder charges but I think the jurors have the discretion to charge him with a lesser offense.

I doubt Zimmerman is convicted of 2nd degree murder, but I have a hard time believing he's not charged with voluntary manslaughter.

The 'win' for the Trayvon Martin family was finally seeing Zimmerman arrested and forced to go to trial. Everything after that is a crapshoot. This isn't Massachusetts. This is Florida. Normal doesn't apply here.

As for the release of Zimmerman's medical records following his 'attack' by Trayvon, you need to read between the lines.
This medical report was compiled by Zimmerman's FAMILY DOCTOR, not an ER physician. The report said Zimmerman had injuries to his face that 'could' result in two black eyes...wtf does that mean?? Most black eyes occur within less than an hour after the initial injury, not 48-72 hours later.

As for the broken nose, that can't be diagnosed without an X-ray exam. As far as I know those tests don't exist, even though Zimmerman's family doctor said he had a 'closed fracture' break.

Again, nothing in that report suggests Zimmerman suffered life threatening injuries. It implies George was in a fight and his inner pussy came to the surface and he decided to murder that kid in cold blood.

Just remember that Zimmerman's camp claims he suffered a broken nose but there was no blood coming from his nostrils that night or staining the front of his shirt.

[Prospero]

Trisha... will it ever change? I was surfing a few US talk radio channels on my Ipad recently and there was so much stuff about the right to bear arms - concealed weapons and all. Raise that issue here and some of the seemingly most relaxed semi liberal folk spring to the defence of the gun people. The NRA is such a powerful lobby it would electoral suicide for anyone to take them on. I think it is intractable.

[InHouston]

From this side of the pond, I fear you are a lone voice - someone prove me otherwise.



You know Trish, I find it quite ironic that you support and promote the very thing the murderous villains in our society would relish and take full advantage of. Taking guns from law-abiding citizens just gives criminals Carte Blanche access to you any time they want, with no way to defend yourself. I’ve been on this earth for over 40 years. I’ve worked hard all my life, I’m an Atheist and therefore fully understand and appreciate my mortality. With all that, some little 18 year old brat-thug who has the IQ of a carrot dipped in shit is not going to pump me full of bullets for my wallet. All you need do is read the crime section of papers around the nation. It goes on all day and all night. And can happen to anyone anytime.

[InHouston]

Trisha... will it ever change? I was surfing a few US talk radio channels on my Ipad recently and there was so much stuff about the right to bear arms - concealed weapons and all. Raise that issue here and some of the seemingly most relaxed semi liberal folk spring to the defence of the gun people. The NRA is such a powerful lobby it would electoral suicide for anyone to take them on. I think it is intractable.

No it's never going to change. The right to bear arms is the law of the land. You take that right away, not only will the criminals take over, but so will the government.

The right to bear arms even deterred a land invasion here by Japan in WWII. They were planning it, and a general shot the idea down quoting, "If we attempt a land invasion, Americans will pop up from behind every blade of grass with a gun." They scrapped the idea, and we didn't have to fire a single shot to stop the plan.

[InHouston]

From Thomas Jefferson, “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.”

[yourdaddy]

Seanchai, Jesse J., and Sharpton ain't gonna like this.

MIAMI – Court records show George Zimmerman had a pair of black eyes, a nose fracture and two cuts to the back of his head after the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
The medical records were part of evidence released Tuesday that prosecutors have in the second-degree murder case against Zimmerman. He has entered a plea of not guilty and claims self-defense in the Feb. 26 shooting. A message left Tuesday evening with Zimmerman's attorney was not immediately returned.
Zimmerman was treated Feb. 27 at Altamonte Family Practice. A phone call made Tuesday evening to the practice rang unanswered.
ABC News first reported Zimmerman's injuries from the medical records. Some of the injuries were previously reported by The Associated Press based on video of Zimmerman at a jail sally port.
Zimmerman, 28, is free on $150,000 bail and living in an undisclosed location. He has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder charges that were only filed after the governor appointed a special prosecutor to investigate the slaying in the central Florida city of Sanford. The case has become a national racial flashpoint because the Martin family and supporters contend Zimmerman singled Martin out because he was black.
It has also sparked renewed debate over "stand your ground" laws pushed by the National Rifle Association. While backers say such laws protect innocent lives, detractors contend they can become a virtual license to kill and are prone to misuse by criminals and misinterpretation by judges.
Zimmerman, who faces a potential life sentence if convicted, said he only fired his handgun because Martin attacked him. If Zimmerman prevails on his self-defense claim, a judge could dismiss the case before trial.

[GroobySteven]

Seanchai, Jesse J., and Sharpton ain't gonna like this.


Doesn't matter one way or another to me. As I've stated before, my reason for posting was so it got attention, which it did - and and investigation was opened.
The only thing that really disturbs me is the racist attitudes of you and a few others who will continue to argue that it was right for Zimmerman to kill a young person and the laws and culture which have allowed it.

[trish]

You know Trish, I find it quite ironic that you support and promote the very thing the murderous villains in our society would relish and take full advantage of. Taking guns from law-abiding citizens just gives criminals Carte Blanche access to you any time they want, with no way to defend yourself.

I said, “More guns on the streets or in the home do not make the streets or the home safer.” So where did I say we should take guns away. Stop misrepresenting the arguments of others. Start listening and addressing the points others make.

I said, “You fear for your life and personal safety just because someone's crawling through your window?? For trespass you want to kill them? How cowardly is that? If I were on the jury, I would want to see real evidence that you feared for your life.” Others have reiterated this question. Do you really think homicide is a justifiable response to trespass?

If you think my position is ironic given my circumstances, then judge my position with respect to the reasons I give for it, namely:

“One obvious objection against the current rash of castle and stand-your-ground laws is they legalize justifiable homicide but forgo the formal presentation of a justification. We just take the perp’s word for it.

The second objection is what counts for a justification, namely “fear for one’s life or personal safety.” Is that really a justification? A lot a people’s fears are simply irrational. In my mind, the only possible justification for homicide is a rational assessment that the continuance of your life depends decidedly on the termination of the other’s life; i.e. if the state can prove that there were rational choices open to the perp that would have avoided the death of the victim, then the homicide was not justifiable.”


I’ve been on this earth for over 40 years. I’ve worked hard all my life, I’m an Atheist and therefore fully understand and appreciate my mortality. With all that, some little 18 year old brat-thug who has the IQ of a carrot dipped in shit is not going to pump me full of bullets for my wallet. All you need do is read the crime section of papers around the nation. It goes on all day and all night. And can happen to anyone anytime. Give the kid the fucking wallet. You think you’ve had a tougher life, been in tighter situations and worked harder then a transgender woman, one time escort with a graduate education? It doesn’t matter who’s tough and who’s not. It matter of being able to appropriately assess a developing situation and handle it with humane, firm, rational and proportionate resolve. Stalking unarmed kids and shooting them, or sitting with a rifle in wait for a couple of aluminum-can thieves are disproportionate, homicidal responses symptomatic of a mental condition that should disqualify the would be shooters from owning a gun.

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman was also taking Adderall and Temazepam. I can't wait to hear Zimmerman's attorney argue in open court that his client's 'legitimate' use of adderall didn't make him more prone to acting out irrationally.

[Queens Guy]

you are not allowed to used deadly force to defend property in calif

if some one steals from you then runs you can not use deadly force to stop them.

you can only use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon in calif


Natina, those kids stealing cans may have been fleeing felons. I'm in NYC and I don't know California law, I'm going form my understanding of NY State law. They were more than trespassers if they broke into a building and started to steal things, even though those cans were only worth 5-cents each. Trespassing and then stealing makes the crime Burglary, which is a felony.

If the business owner told the kids to stop and wait for the police to arrive, but the kids started to run away so they wouldn't get arrested, then they were fleeing felons.

I don't think it's right to shoot them in that instance, and I wouldn't shoot them. But, it might be legal.

[buttslinger]

Zimmerman was also taking Adderall and Temazepam.

Maybe he didn't want to go to the Hospital because they'd take a blood test. Who knows what they'd find.