17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia? [Archive] - Page 6 - HungAngels

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natina

05-19-2012, 07:04 AM

some hearsay is allowed in court

it depends on the state and who did the hearsay and other factors.......

Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them.

"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the unidentified woman says in an audio recording.

A man whose name was deleted from the audio told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. It wasn't clear which company it was.

The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said that when he first started, many employees didn't like him. Zimmerman seized on this, the employee said, and bullied him.

Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent when talking about the employee, the man said. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him.

"It was so immature," said the employee, who ended up writing a letter to management about Zimmerman.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCdykoIjmPMAgLTFzxHVIydZIECQ?docId=3f268f957 ba44ecdba44ed43b71e48e1

evidence supports the contention of Martin's parents that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.

He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.

The lawyer for Martin's parents seized on the investigator's recommendation.

"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable. That is the headline."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCdykoIjmPMAgLTFzxHVIydZIECQ?docId=3f268f957 ba44ecdba44ed43b71e48e1

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 07:09 AM

Being African descent is not a crime.
Being tall is not a crime, if it was there would be no NBA.
Having a hoodie is not a crime.
Going to the store late at night is not a crime.
Getting suspended from school is not a crime.
Visiting your father is not a crime.
Not trusting a stranger is not a crime.
Being a teen is not a crime.

Queens Guy

05-19-2012, 07:13 AM

Lets say Trayvon did fight Zimmerman, fact is Trayvon had no gun, Zimmerman should of fought force with force not a gun shot. Listen to what the first video that Natina put up. I All this evidence for the prosecutor, I don't see this diminishing. The Prosecutors got evidence also.

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder

I only watched the first minute or two of Papantonio. There are some problems with what he said. He said 911 told him not to pursue Trayvon. The dispatcher didn't give any order. He told Zimmerman that 'we don't need you to do that'. Papantonio says the dispatcher said 'Stop!', but the dispatcher never said that.

Papantonio also thinks he KNOWS what Zimmerman's mental state was. None of us do.

I stopped watching after that. I found him to be way too pompous. There are a lot of things we still don't know about the case, but Papantonio knows everything already. Even though I know he didn't listen to the 911 tape. And if he did, he didn't hear what it said. He heard what he wanted it to say.

Ben

05-19-2012, 07:22 AM

Trayvon Martin Case: New Evidence - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA4gEO-bY_Y&feature=plcp)

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 07:25 AM

some hearsay is allowed in court

it depends on the state and who did the hearsay and other factors.......

Hearsay is not allowed but it goes like this by definition of legal law: It states.

Hearsay Rule, that declares not admissible as evidence any statement other than that by a witness while testifying at the hearing and offered into evidence to prove the truth of the matter stated. The hearsay statement may be oral or written (Tray's girlfriend of what she heard and phone log) and includes nonverbal conduct intended as a substitute for words (such as a nodding of the head). If, for example, a witness' statement as to what he or she heard another person say is elicited to prove the truth of what that other person said, it is hearsay. If, however, it is elicited to merely show that the words were spoken, it is not hearsay. The witness' answer will be admissible only to show that the other person spoke certain words and not to sow the truth of the credibility of the witness is the key ingredient in weighing the truth of this or her statement.
Hearsay is prohibited due to the constitutional guarantee of confrontation.

natina

05-19-2012, 07:31 AM

Zimmerman psychologically wanna be cop profile; He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells.

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America

By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous,.....
http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

natina

05-19-2012, 07:34 AM

Nancy explains the law in Trayvon death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BWGjNcB9l6k

Curtis Sliwa on what Zimmerman did wrong - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494D9VJwrMk&feature=related)

New Trayvon Martin Witness speaks to CNNs Anderson Cooper - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYf2xTvJpzU&feature=related)

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 07:44 AM

First let me say, maybe you should of watched the whole thing. Second if he's pompous then Nancy and Curtis Silva is also, and a slew of others no matter what race they are don't agree with Zimmerman.

Pap, is into law so he knows his stuff and he is fighting cases that means he has experience, just like me, now how much experience of law do you have? Just asking.

Come on Queens Guy we know 911 didn't say stop, all Pap is saying when they said "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT" he is saying stop just so he doesn't have to say the whole "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT " again, that's all. He even quoted "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT", and he just added the extra "STOP" to it, it's equivalent to "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT". Lets be real.

The dispatchers are there for a reason, they are trained to handle certain situations and one must listen to them, if you want to be helped correctly. They work with law enforcement to do a job, they're there for a reason. So what do you mean they didn't give any order? They told Zimmerman "YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT", I mean what's up? I could see if they said nothing at all but they told him he need not engage the Teen.

But if you have a beef with Pap then that's your beef but the dude is an attorney and he has much experience, and like him others are upset with how the Police handled the case and what happened with Zimmerman not being arrested at first getty up!!.

I only watched the first minute or two of Papantonio. There are some problems with what he said. He said 911 told him not to pursue Trayvon. The dispatcher didn't give any order. He told Zimmerman that 'we don't need you to do that'. Papantonio says the dispatcher said 'Stop!', but the dispatcher never said that.

Papantonio also thinks he KNOWS what Zimmerman's mental state was. None of us do.

I stopped watching after that. I found him to be way too pompous. There are a lot of things we still don't know about the case, but Papantonio knows everything already. Even though I know he didn't listen to the 911 tape. And if he did, he didn't hear what it said. He heard what he wanted it to say.

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 07:46 AM

GroobySteven

05-19-2012, 10:49 AM

Fine, I'm cancelling my account with you. Your site sucks lately anyway. There's better content on the free tube channels than what you post up every Saturday morning.

I thought you liked freedom of speech? You threaten me with stopping giving me business because I won't alter my moral stances to fit in with your right wing racism - but then you claim you don't like the business anyway?

natina

05-19-2012, 11:33 AM

George Zimmerman Made Racist Remarks At Work (LISTEN)

Within a collection of evidence (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/evidence-trayvon-martin_n_1525285.html) officially released by the State Attorney's Office on Thursday, was an audio recording of a 15-minute interview with George Zimmerman's former co-worker. During the interview, the man, whose name was not given, says that Zimmerman racially targeted him and bullied him at work, ThinkProgress.com reports (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/18/486523/audio-witness-says-george-zimmerman-repeatedly-bullied-him-at-work-targeted-him-with-racist-jokes/).
According to the witness, Zimmerman singled him out because he was Middle Eastern, calling him a "fucking moron" and mocking him with the voice of "Achmed the terrorist." He said Zimmerman would also tell stories and make jokes about "bombing" and other "Middle Eastern stuff."
Editor's Note: Some readers may find the language in this audio offensive

In addition to the second-degree murder charge he's facing, Zimmerman could also face federal hate crime charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html?ref=black-voices). If convicted of second-degree murder, Zimmerman could serve a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, if he is found guilty of a federal hate crime charge, he could face the death penalty.
The witness said that he never felt physically threatened by Zimmerman or had any violent interaction with him. He said that he complained to management about Zimmerman's behavior, and Zimmerman was eventually "fired for calling the HR hotline so many times."
Complaints about Zimmerman's behavior aren't new. In the past, his neighbors complained about his aggressive tactics (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?1331601197) as a neighborhood watchmen and public records show he was arrested in Orange County in 2005 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html) on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.
Since his arrest, Zimmerman has been released on bond. The case is expected to go to trial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html?ref=topbar

natina

05-19-2012, 12:52 PM

how do you feel about zimmerman facing the death penalty?

In addition to the second-degree murder charge he's facing, Zimmerman could also face federal hate crime charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html?ref=black-voices). If convicted of second-degree murder, Zimmerman could serve a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, if he is found guilty of a federal hate crime charge, he could face the death penalty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html

natina

05-19-2012, 12:58 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html

FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION

"zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a 9mm pistol and pursued/stalked Travon Martin a minor who was doing nothing illegal and WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/?gt1=43001

Prospero

05-19-2012, 01:17 PM

I wonder if this thread had any value. it reflects or reveals entrenched positions. The law will run its course and justice might be done.

giovanni_hotel

05-19-2012, 01:27 PM

I just look for updates in this thread since apparently the trial won't begin until next year.

Prospero

05-19-2012, 01:28 PM

A sort of blog, Giovanni? That makes sense I guess.

natina

05-19-2012, 02:00 PM

zimmers myspace page now entered into evidence?

A Myspace page that belonged to George Zimmerman in 2005 has been brought to light, and some of the contents of his page have been scrutinized in a Miami Herald article entitled “George Zimmerman’s crude Myspace page from 2005 uncovered.” The O’Mara Law Group has confirmed this page did belong to Mr. Zimmerman, though it was hacked into, and George abandoned it. The identified posts were his.

The article details a number of statements that will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light especially considering the charges he faces. In that regard, it is possible that the statements Mr. Zimmerman made could be used as part of the trial, and therefore it is our policy not to comment directly on items that could become evidence.

Frances Robles, the Miami Herald reporter that broke the story tweeted “Crump tells me #Zimmerman's anti-Mexican comments on MySpace show ‘a pattern of profiling.’” We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.
A Myspace page that belonged to George Zimmerman in 2005 has been brought to light, and some of the contents of his page have been scrutinized in a Miami Herald article entitled “George Zimmerman’s crude Myspace page from 2005 uncovered.” The O’Mara Law Group has confirmed this page did belong to Mr. Zimmerman, though it was hacked into, and George abandoned it. The identified posts were his.

The article details a number of statements that will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light especially considering the charges he faces. In that regard, it is possible that the statements Mr. Zimmerman made could be used as part of the trial, and therefore it is our policy not to comment directly on items that could become evidence.

Frances Robles, the Miami Herald reporter that broke the story tweeted “Crump tells me #Zimmerman's anti-Mexican comments on MySpace show ‘a pattern of profiling.’” We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/11-contents-of-george-zimmerman-s-abandoned-myspace-page-scrutinized

George Zimmerman Made Racist Remarks At Work (LISTEN)

Within a collection of evidence (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/evidence-trayvon-martin_n_1525285.html) officially released by the State Attorney's Office on Thursday, was an audio recording of a 15-minute interview with George Zimmerman's former co-worker. During the interview, the man, whose name was not given, says that Zimmerman racially targeted him and bullied him at work, ThinkProgress.com reports (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/18/486523/audio-witness-says-george-zimmerman-repeatedly-bullied-him-at-work-targeted-him-with-racist-jokes/).
According to the witness, Zimmerman singled him out because he was Middle Eastern, calling him a "fucking moron" and mocking him with the voice of "Achmed the terrorist." He said Zimmerman would also tell stories and make jokes about "bombing" and other "Middle Eastern stuff."
Editor's Note: Some readers may find the language in this audio offensive

In addition to the second-degree murder charge he's facing, Zimmerman could also face federal hate crime charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html?ref=black-voices). If convicted of second-degree murder, Zimmerman could serve a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, if he is found guilty of a federal hate crime charge, he could face the death penalty.
The witness said that he never felt physically threatened by Zimmerman or had any violent interaction with him. He said that he complained to management about Zimmerman's behavior, and Zimmerman was eventually "fired for calling the HR hotline so many times."
Complaints about Zimmerman's behavior aren't new. In the past, his neighbors complained about his aggressive tactics (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?1331601197) as a neighborhood watchmen and public records show he was arrested in Orange County in 2005 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html) on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.
Since his arrest, Zimmerman has been released on bond. The case is expected to go to trial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html?ref=topbar

Stavros

05-19-2012, 02:45 PM

I wonder if this thread had any value. it reflects or reveals entrenched positions. The law will run its course and justice might be done.

It has been a useful, if occasionally dispiriting opportunity for BMs to discuss their versions of justice. The speculation on what actually happened has been the most tiresome because it relies on 'new revelations' without establishing an objective context for them, or indeed incontrovertible facts, other than that one person was shot dead. An object lesson in how one event can become, in the media, several events, and further proof of the way in which 'the truth' about an event, regardless of the evidence, can never be understood; or that maybe some people refuse to accept one narrative and create another -whether it is FDR knowing about a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour before it happened, the assassinations of JFK, RFK and Martin Luther King, MalcolmX, and down to 9/11.

natina

05-19-2012, 03:16 PM

A clip from a TV show called "Without Prejudice?" which was on GSN a couple of years ago. l think this video will help people to start an important dialog. ***** UPDATE E-MAIL FROM MICHAEL (Contestant on the show): Awesome man. This is so random but i am so glad you put this up. Folks are talking. The show won awards in the UK and so they made a US version. This was the pilot episode and the most popular. it was such a success that they got a full season from it. it is an hour long show and we were all randomly chosen. The judges and the contestants. So they wanted to see if the judges could "judge" without prejudice. They would go on to award the winner 25K. I was the winner. Myself and the other finalist were the only 2 contestants that got to actually meet the judges and when i met them, the polynesian guy had a change of heart and actually voted FOR me. The edits don't show that he came from his seat and hugged me. It was a very interesting experience. We had no idea what the judges were saying or doing or who they even were, for that matter. so i had no idea that he was racist when i went out and met the judges. It ended well though. I talked to that guy over a meal and he said that he had a change of heart.

Epic Racist Moment on Game Show
Epic Racist Moment on Game Show - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_SPEvdQ3A)

zimmers myspace page now entered into evidence?

A Myspace page that belonged to George Zimmerman in 2005 has been brought to light, and some of the contents of his page have been scrutinized in a Miami Herald article entitled “George Zimmerman’s crude Myspace page from 2005 uncovered.” The O’Mara Law Group has confirmed this page did belong to Mr. Zimmerman, though it was hacked into, and George abandoned it. The identified posts were his.

The article details a number of statements that will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light especially considering the charges he faces. In that regard, it is possible that the statements Mr. Zimmerman made could be used as part of the trial, and therefore it is our policy not to comment directly on items that could become evidence.

Frances Robles, the Miami Herald reporter that broke the story tweeted “Crump tells me #Zimmerman's anti-Mexican comments on MySpace show ‘a pattern of profiling.’” We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.
A Myspace page that belonged to George Zimmerman in 2005 has been brought to light, and some of the contents of his page have been scrutinized in a Miami Herald article entitled “George Zimmerman’s crude Myspace page from 2005 uncovered.” The O’Mara Law Group has confirmed this page did belong to Mr. Zimmerman, though it was hacked into, and George abandoned it. The identified posts were his.

The article details a number of statements that will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light especially considering the charges he faces. In that regard, it is possible that the statements Mr. Zimmerman made could be used as part of the trial, and therefore it is our policy not to comment directly on items that could become evidence.

Frances Robles, the Miami Herald reporter that broke the story tweeted “Crump tells me #Zimmerman's anti-Mexican comments on MySpace show ‘a pattern of profiling.’” We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/11-contents-of-george-zimmerman-s-abandoned-myspace-page-scrutinized

zimmermans lawyer is busy making excuse for him running out of lies

JOHNNIE TAYLOR RUNNING OUT OF LIES
JOHNNIE TAYLOR RUNNING OUT OF LIES - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7VYpWw0T6w)

Willie Escalade

05-19-2012, 03:34 PM

Wow at that video! (Not the Johnnie Taylor one)

Does that asshole really think blacks WANT to be singled out? If these dickheads were to just give EVERYONE a fair shake in life instead of prejudging there wouldn't NEED to be an NAACP, or affirmative action, or even GLAAD. I probably would have gone off on that fool...

onmyknees

05-19-2012, 04:10 PM

I wonder if this thread had any value. it reflects or reveals entrenched positions. The law will run its course and justice might be done.

Value? As in something of worth ? The only value I can see is what it's doing for the post count of Natina and James Edwards....that's not necessarily a bad thing, everyone has an opinion and this is an open forum. It's probably more revealing than valuable. I share no racial, cultural, or geographic identity with Zimmerman, and certainly not with Martin, but it does break down pretty much along racial lines on here . Black folks will identify with Martin, white folks by in large won't. We all know it. You need only to go back and look at the reaction on some college campuses after the OJ verdict....yet when he finally was convicted and sent away for unrelated crimes...hardly a response. That's a fascinating and disturbing set of circumstances, yet that's a little too deep for the media and talking heads like Nancy Grace with 30 seconds to make their point care to elaborate on. They'd rather speculate on the latest rumors in cases like this. It is curious to me why some are so heavily invested in this in light of the fact so many of these high profile cases involving race, or the perception of being racial turn out far differently than they first appear. Justice? It all depends on what side of the courtroom you're sitting on. It may ultimately be "just" according to the law and the admissible evidence if Zimmerman is convicted of manslaughter, but that's hardly going to resolve anything, least of all on here.

Stavros

05-19-2012, 04:31 PM

I share no racial, cultural, or geographic identity with Zimmerman, and certainly not with Martin, but it does break down pretty much along racial lines on here .

And yet, Trayvon Martin was an American, as you and Zimmerman are, politically, geographically and yes, culturally too.

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 04:53 PM

"The witness said that he never felt physically threatened by Zimmerman or had any violent interaction with him. He said that he complained to management about Zimmerman's behavior, and Zimmerman was eventually "fired for calling the HR hotline so many times."

DAmmmmm they got record of that? And cats running around thinking prosecutors case is diminishing? LOL

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 05:03 PM

If Zimmerman is found guilty on either charge he should do life in prison not a death penalty. Let him rot in jail, no easy way out.

I don't know if he will get found guilty for hate crime, but for killing Trayvon yep I see that.

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 05:12 PM

Justice? It all depends on what side of the courtroom you're sitting on. It may ultimately be "just" according to the law and the admissible evidence if Zimmerman is convicted of manslaughter, but that's hardly going to resolve anything, least of all on here.

What are you talking about? He was arrested under 2nd degree murder charges, why are people saying manslaughter? It's not manslaughter he wasn't the cause of Tray's death, he did murder Trayvon.

I'm not going on racism, I already told someone why people are looking at racism. My point is, ZIMMERMAN SHOULD OF STAYED HIS ASS IN THE SUV, AND ONCE THIS IS ESTABLISHED HE WON'T BE ABLE TO SAY SELF DEFENSE AND HIS ASS IF OFF TO JAIL FOR KILLING AN UNARMED TEEN!!!

That's it.

hard4janira

05-19-2012, 05:28 PM

It's amazing how many poeple don't understand how the law works in here. Comments that Zimmerman made at a former job have no bearing on this case whatsoever. It's not admissible in court. They are good talking points, however, for poeple who are trying him in the media and for people who have already made up their minds about matter. You want him to be found guilty so you revel in details that will end up having no bearing in court whatsoever. Somebody even suggested that comments made by Zimmermen in a previous job prove he's a racist - thereofore the shooting was a hate crime (by assoication) and he can get the death penalty...What kind of asshole logic is this?

Personally, I don't give a fuck about Travon Martin one tiny bit. Where is all the media outrage at this? There isn't any.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/18/2-arrested-killings-usc-graduate-students-la-police-say/

Oh, and forget about hate crime charges being brought to the low-lifes who targeted these two asian students.

The facts are these (and you don't have to like the): Black people prey on society with virtual impunity. That's why nobody gives a fuck about Travon Martin. Cases like the one I cited above are commonplace and NEVER hyped out of proportion by the media- so why should I give a fuck about Travon Martin who was well on his way to becoming a degenerate in his own right.

You wanna know why people hate black people? Click on the link above.
You wanna know why poeple stalk blacks wearing hoodies in thier neighborhood? Click on the link above.
You wanna know why we don't give a shit about Travon Martin? Click on the link above.

Taveon Martin....cry me a fucking river.

Queens Guy

05-19-2012, 05:37 PM

I wonder if this thread had any value. it reflects or reveals entrenched positions. The law will run its course and justice might be done.

I think it does, as a lot of information has just been released.

Once we reach a point where nothing new comes along, which will probably happen in a few weeks after all of this newly released information is digested, I think you're right, it will become mostly a matter of everybody forming their own opinion. At that point this thread will become stale and we'll just have to wait until the trial happens.

Right now, it's interesting to see how different people interpret the same evidence or information. The things that are what they are, instead of things that lead to speculation. For instance, the video of Trayvon at the 7-11 buying the skittles and iced tea is what it is. Just a video of him at the store.

But jamesedward and I have different takeaways from it. I see a person who looks more like a young man than the tiny tot in the little league football jersey or the other picture of Trayvon in an orange t-shirt that has been shown so much in this story. jamesedward, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you see him as a thin guy, maybe even scrawny. I see Trayvon as more of a potential threat because of that video. I could hold off that tiny tot like in a Three Stooges clip. Just put my hand on his forehead while he swings his short arms. But the Trayvon in the video is taller and has more reach. He could land jabs on me if we squared off. jamesedward doesn't see it that way.

So, I think it's still useful, for now.

Donkey

05-19-2012, 05:48 PM

The facts are these (and you don't have to like the): Black people prey on society with virtual impunity. That's why nobody gives a fuck about Travon Martin. Cases like the one I cited above are commonplace and NEVER hyped out of proportion by the media- so why should I give a fuck about Travon Martin who was well on his way to becoming a degenerate in his own right.

You wanna know why people hate black people? Click on the link above.
You wanna know why poeple stalk blacks wearing hoodies in thier neighborhood? Click on the link above.
You wanna know why we don't give a shit about Travon Martin? Click on the link above.

Taveon Martin....cry me a fucking river.

Damn. I'm black and this stings a bit. But, sadly, you are correct. Your point is valid that we need to clean our house. I won't dispute that. Although, I know from having these discussions with my own family and circle of friends that you aren't going to get many black folks to agree. Most refuse to accept any responsibility for the way our young men are turning out. They don't even want to hear this from iconic members of our community, like Bill Cosby, much less whites.

Stavros

05-19-2012, 08:21 PM

The facts are these (and you don't have to like the): Black people prey on society with virtual impunity.......so why should I give a fuck about Travon Martin who was well on his way to becoming a degenerate in his own right.

1) If your first comment is true, why are there are so many Black Americans in prison, if they can commit crimes with impunity. Or is it the case that the ones in prison are innocent and its the guilty who go free?

2) Trayvon had a strong father figure in his life, something that runs completely against the stereotypes other BMs have used on this thread who follow the Charles Murray school of Sociology that caricatures 'Black families' as fatherless, moms addicted to crack or booze, dependent on welfare, dysfunctional, disengaged with society at lage, involved in crime, drug addiction etc etc. Your ability to predict how his life would have turned out is either a mark of your astonishing aptitude, or an astonishing act of prejudice.

DaveO

05-19-2012, 08:30 PM

GroobySteven

05-19-2012, 08:55 PM

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 10:19 PM

WEll Queens, I see Trayvon as a tall 17 year old Teen, am I correct? Is he a teen or an adult? He's skinny, look at his face book pics, and he has on baggy pants at the store am I correct? He's not a built guy, he was only 17 am I correct?

He could be seen as a threat because he's tall, but here's the ass kicker, you said you see him as a threat, Zimmerman seen him as a threat but one thing Zimmerman had over him was THE MIGHTY GUN, am I correct? Zimmerman seen Trayvon and he seen how tall he was, bet if Zimmerman didn't have that gun I bet he would of stayed in the car. Just as you see Trayvon as a threat.

Now me I don't see Trayvon as a threat maybe because I am 6'1 230 lbs muscle, it is certain short men have size complexes in the world, so to me he's not a threat. The thing is how is he a threat in a store just buying goods? Unless you're talking about he would look like a threat to you as you walked down the street. If that's the case every time I see African descent youth in my hood I should see all of them as threats because they are taller than me. smh

I MEAN LOOK AT HIM HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY REAL MUSCLE MASS HE'S SKINNY, IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT QUEENS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

http://img1.imagehousing.com/6/6556f7820f9265dd6dd7933a602191ea.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1018487)

So there you have it.

I think it does, as a lot of information has just been released.

Once we reach a point where nothing new comes along, which will probably happen in a few weeks after all of this newly released information is digested, I think you're right, it will become mostly a matter of everybody forming their own opinion. At that point this thread will become stale and we'll just have to wait until the trial happens.

Right now, it's interesting to see how different people interpret the same evidence or information. The things that are what they are, instead of things that lead to speculation. For instance, the video of Trayvon at the 7-11 buying the skittles and iced tea is what it is. Just a video of him at the store.

But jamesedward and I have different takeaways from it. I see a person who looks more like a young man than the tiny tot in the little league football jersey or the other picture of Trayvon in an orange t-shirt that has been shown so much in this story. jamesedward, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you see him as a thin guy, maybe even scrawny. I see Trayvon as more of a potential threat because of that video. I could hold off that tiny tot like in a Three Stooges clip. Just put my hand on his forehead while he swings his short arms. But the Trayvon in the video is taller and has more reach. He could land jabs on me if we squared off. jamesedward doesn't see it that way.

So, I think it's still useful, for now.

jamesedwards

05-19-2012, 10:34 PM

It's a tragedy that Trayvon died, but Zimmerman had a right to confront him about why he was in the gated community without being physically attacked by Trayvon. Keep in mind that the whole gated community was private property, including the streets and sidewalks.

:dead: Do you even know this case? Being you said Zimmerman was attacked, one witness will shut that theory down.

The girlfriend was on the phone and Trayvon said he was being followed, now Tray asked Zimmerman what is he following him for, after the dispatcher told ZIMMERMAN NOT TO ENGAGE THE TEEN!!!

The neighborhood watch rules are 1. Don't carry a weapon, Zimmerman violated that rule we know that because he shot someone. 2. Don't engage people, call the police, he violated that too.

So now that you know that, he has the right to do what?

Ok lets say he does, he was unprofessional in approaching Tray and you don't look like you're stalking some one if you need to ask them a question. I don't even know how many times I have to say this. But Zimm was not professional and is not a professional. He should have waited by the mail box and wait for the police who are professional handle it, no he wanted to handle it and ended up shooting a teen.

If he had the right to follow Trayvon why on earth would the dispatcher tell Zimm "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT", They would of told him "GO AHEAD PROCEED BECAUSE YOU'RE THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAPTAIN". The dispatcher don't know that dude from a can of paint.

theoryman

05-19-2012, 10:44 PM

If he had the right to follow Trayvon why on earth would the dispatcher tell Zimm "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT", They would of told him "GO AHEAD PROCEED BECAUSE YOU'RE THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAPTAIN". The dispatcher don't know that dude from a can of paint.

Liability.

If the dispatcher tells him to proceed, he places the liability on himself and/or the city. They are trained to tell you to back off and break contact. But there is no law saying you must.

BTW, in most areas, a 911 dispatcher is not a LEO. The dispatcher has no authority to give orders... only advice.

--

giovanni_hotel

05-19-2012, 10:44 PM

Although Zimmerman's a piece of shit, I don't generalize his actions or behavior to ALL people who look like him.

I shouldn't be, but part of me is still surprised the level of deep seated animus some White people have towards Blacks in general. A Black person commits a crime and suddenly that's supposed to be representative of ALL Black people.

There are White folks on this board who are pure bred racists, TO THE BONE, but it begins and ends with THEM, in my mind. I don't say, 'damn since this asshole is a bigot, all White people are.'

Can't believe some you are saying because other Black people have committed heinous criminal acts, a HUMAN BEING like Trayvon who happens to be Black doesn't rank anyone White person's sympathy.

There are multiple stories over the years not featured in the mainstream media, about Black enlisted soldiers stationed in Japan who have been murdered for being sexually intimate with Japanese women. Should I hate ALL Japanese now, or Asians in general??

I understand the disgust when reading or hearing about in the media that person A committed a crime against person B, but the hate some of you carry with you for all people a particular group is shocking to me.

Hard4janira, you are a deeply troubled soul. The murder of those USC grad students was wrong, the murder of Trayvon was wrong. Why does it have to be one of the other??

As for Trayvon being perceived as a 'threat', even when unarmed, is ludicrous to me.
As a kid I've seen skinny Black kids like Trayvon get beat down by their mother's(!), much less a grown man who outweighs him by 40#.

There's something to be said for some of you having an irrational fear of someone else's skin color.

maddygirl

05-19-2012, 10:54 PM

There's racism on both sides of the fence. Unfortunately many people are fighting fire with fire instead of cutting out racism altogether. I'm not justifying any form of racism but I've met a fair amount of both white and black people who feel their racist views are "justified" for different reasons. All I'm saying is people need to drop the whole racial bullshit and focus on what's important, especially in criminal cases.

hard4janira

05-19-2012, 11:14 PM

1) If your first comment is true, why are there are so many Black Americans in prison, if they can commit crimes with impunity. Or is it the case that the ones in prison are innocent and its the guilty who go free?

You're correct on that point. They do go to jail (repeatedly), so impunity is not the correct term. What I should have said is they get a pass from the media because everybody expects this behavior out of them I suppose. Where is the media outrage and uproar over the two asian grad students who were murdered while sitting in their car? Where are the accusations of racism and hate crime when there is little doubt they were targeted because of thier race? The fact is black poeple are probably the most racist hate filled people in the country (not that whtie people aren't). I'm just saying that black people exhibit so much anger violence towards other races because they have MASSIVE inferiority complexes that they refuse to admit. Who else advocates the killing of Korean grocers because they are EARNING money in black neighborhoods? Black people are a fucking disaster area in America (I apologize to those of you who have actually clawed your way to respecabiltity - you get a bad rap but you're stuck in a barrel of rotten apples).

2) Trayvon had a strong father figure in his life, something that runs completely against the stereotypes other BMs have used on this thread who follow the Charles Murray school of Sociology that caricatures 'Black families' as fatherless, moms addicted to crack or booze, dependent on welfare, dysfunctional, disengaged with society at lage, involved in crime, drug addiction etc etc.

Wrong. He had a father figure in his life but we can question whether or not it was a strong one. Martin was suspended from school for drug possession and had other behavioral problems in the past. I'd argue his parents weren't doing a very good job at raising thier son. but I probably have MUCH higher standards than his parents (or Barrack Obama apparently).

giovanni_hotel

05-19-2012, 11:37 PM

fastingforlife

05-20-2012, 12:07 AM

Stavros

05-20-2012, 12:30 AM

Black people are a fucking disaster area in America

On the other hand, MalcolmX would have said that America was a disaster for Black people; anyway both you and he are wrong. Aside from the fact that Americans come from diverse origins, and are of course all equally American, you seem to be saying that the development of the US economy would have taken the course it has in spite of, not because of the presence of slavery in your country. That is simply absurd, as absurd as me arguing that India, Australia, New Zealand and Canada have been irrelevant to the development of the United Kingdom. You could be given a list of people in literature, in music, in sport, in culture, in politics all of whom trace their roots to Africa though slavery, all of whom should make you proud to be an American. But I cannot tell you what to think or feel, and there isn't much more I can say if you have already made up your mind. There is good and bad in all societies, a tired cliche I know, but it matters if one group of people are isolated from the rest, because in America that runs counter to the very principle of equality and individual liberty on which your state is based.

Queens Guy

05-20-2012, 12:37 AM

WEll Queens, I see Trayvon as a tall 17 year old Teen, am I correct? Is he a teen or an adult? He's skinny, look at his face book pics, and he has on baggy pants at the store am I correct? He's not a built guy, he was only 17 am I correct?

He could be seen as a threat because he's tall, but here's the ass kicker, you said you see him as a threat, Zimmerman seen him as a threat but one thing Zimmerman had over him was THE MIGHTY GUN, am I correct? Zimmerman seen Trayvon and he seen how tall he was, bet if Zimmerman didn't have that gun I bet he would of stayed in the car. Just as you see Trayvon as a threat.

Now me I don't see Trayvon as a threat maybe because I am 6'1 230 lbs muscle, it is certain short men have size complexes in the world, so to me he's not a threat. The thing is how is he a threat in a store just buying goods? Unless you're talking about he would look like a threat to you as you walked down the street. If that's the case every time I see African descent youth in my hood I should see all of them as threats because they are taller than me. smh

I MEAN LOOK AT HIM HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY REAL MUSCLE MASS HE'S SKINNY, IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT QUEENS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

http://img1.imagehousing.com/6/6556f7820f9265dd6dd7933a602191ea.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1018487)

So there you have it.

james,

I guess we did take away different things after seeing the video.

I didn't say, or I didn't mean to say, that I saw the video version of Trayvon as a threat, to me personally. I'm about the same size as you, know how to fight, etc, and I really wouldn't sweat Trayvon that much. My only concern would be to make sure I got inside his jab and get to grappling distance.

I did not, with a capital NOT, say that Trayvon did anything in the store that made him look like a threat. He was just a teenager buying some snacks. Nothing about that video leads me to think anything about what happened later that night.

My point was that I compared him to the previous photos I've seen. The little kid in the football uniform, the smiling kid in the orange shirt. Compared to the little kid version of Trayvon we've seen, the 'new' version is more of a threat.

This is a criticism of the media, too. It's hard to believe that with all the pictures people put up on facebook, myspace, etc, these days that the media couldn't have shown more recent pictures of him. I'm one of those people that thinks the media is trying to 'create a narrative'. Just tell me what happened, as accurately as you can, and don't make anything up. NBC/MSNBC lost all credibility to me when they did that misleading edit job on the Zimmerman 911 call, cutting down the 13 seconds to 6, eliminating the part where the dispatcher asks Zimmerman to tell him the race of the 'suspicious male'. They 'created' their version news, they didn't report it.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, jamesedward, at this point. Maybe we'll agree as more information comes out, though. I don't have any animosity toward you and I don't feel any from you. I think we both do agree that we want to see justice. Maybe we can share a drink at one of the T-girl parties sometime.

giovanni_hotel

05-20-2012, 01:03 AM

There are individuals on this board who are blackmailers. There are individuals who have wished other board members physical harm, up to and including death. But, they love to call eveyone they can a racist, when they are the standard bearers for hate mongering.....how very odd.

DOn't be cryptic. Who are you trying to protect??lol
Make your case or don't say anything.

I know I told a poster he should go suck on the barrel of a shotgun. And I got called on it.
Who's calling 'everyone' a racist?? Not a single person on this board has called 'everyone else' a racist. But they do exist in a little club here on HA. That's indisputable.

Are you calling me a hate monger??
Helps to be clear about what it is you're trying to say when you're attempting to make a point.

And how can anyone on this site be a blackmailer??

For instance if I repeatedly told members randomly to go suck on shotgun barrels and people complained, eventually I know I would be asked to cut it out, or I'd be banned.

That's not blackmail, it's a basic rule for conduct on a message board.

By the way, how else is one supposed to interpret hard4janira's statement?? As a factual observation?? It was a crazy thing to say but at least the dude has laid his cards out there, so next time I won't have to be surprised.

fastingforlife

05-20-2012, 02:03 AM

Seanchai, utilizing the skills of a typicall 11 year old, was able to discover my identity when I made comments within another thread that he disapproved of. To silence and intimidate me, he threathened to out my interest in this site to my wife, children and employer, violating the code of honor that we all extend to each other, regardless of our differences. Not one board member had the courage to call him on his act of blackmail. Which, by the way is a crime.............even in our little world. I am stunned that the moderator/administrator hasn't banned him. However, I chose not to report him, expecting others to do that.

In the matter of your wish that I die, I do not accept, as others do that it was simple hyperbole. But, I will be generous and call it an overzealous remark by a member of the thought police.

natina

05-20-2012, 02:21 AM

Rationalizing Racial Oppression: How the Right Misuses Crime Data to Justify Unequal Policing (http://www.timwise.org/2009/07/rationalizing-racial-oppression-how-the-right-misuses-crime-data-to-justify-unequal-policing/)
Whenever I write an article about racism, or give a speech concerning the ongoing reality of discrimination in the labor market, I am assailed by those who refuse to believe what virtually any study done in the past two decades confirms: namely, that people of color are not seeing things, nor crazy when they suggest that racial bias is very much a modern-day phenomenon.
These assaults typically arrive in my e-mail inbox, within hours of an article going out over the web, as if pre-prepared long before, and as if their authors were simply waiting for an opportunity to pick an electronic fight.
Sometimes their retorts are little more than racist rants about how blacks and Latinos are lazy, or how American Indians are all drunk. But oftentimes the denial comes wrapped in far more sophisticated garb than that, occasionally bordering on the scholarly, in fact. While some of the conservatives who regale me with their rationalizations for racial inequality manage to quote a gaggle of right wing “experts” to help make their case, the claims they forward are hardly the stronger for it.
For example, the argument that racial wage gaps merely reflect different levels of experience and qualifications between whites and blacks are simply untenable, when one examines the data. Fact is, earnings gaps persist at all levels of education. According to Census data, whites with high school diplomas, college degrees or Master’s Degrees all earn approximately twenty percent more than their black counterparts. Even more striking, whites with professional degrees (such as medicine or law) earn, on average, thirty-one percent more than similar blacks and fifty-two percent more than similar Latinos (1). Even when levels of work experience are the same between blacks and whites, the racial wage gap remains between 10-20 percent (2).
Looking at whites and blacks of similar age, doing the same work, earnings gaps remain significant. Among 25-34 year olds, white lawyers, computer programmers, and carpenters earn, on average, about one-fourth more than comparable blacks; white doctors and accountants earn, on average, one-third more than comparable blacks; and even white janitors earn sixteen percent more, on average, than comparable blacks (3).
Although these gaps do not necessarily reflect overt discrimination by employers — in fact, they mostly reflect the segmented labor market, whereby whites have greater access to more lucrative clients and companies — the effect is the same: whites continue to receive advantages in the labor market over equally qualified blacks.
And contrary to the claims of some, differences in black and white wages are not the result of different cognitive abilities or IQ scores. The results of over thirty studies confirm that test scores and other academic achievement differences can account for no more than three percent of the wage gaps between whites and blacks (4).
The two most common excuses for racial wage inequity are age and geography: excuses popularized by black conservatives like Thomas Sowell, and repeated ad infinitum by white reactionaries like Abigail and Stephen Thernstrom. Since blacks are, on average, younger than whites they will earn less, so the argument goes; and since blacks disproportionately live in the South — a lower-wage region of the country — they will earn less, even if there were no racism operating in labor markets

http://www.timwise.org/2005/05/excuses-excuses-how-the-right-rationalizes-racial-inequality-part-i-wages-and-the-job-market/

http://www.timwise.org/2005/05/excuses-excuses-how-the-right-rationalizes-racial-inequity-part-two-criminal-justice/

Rationalizing Racial Oppression

http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/08/02/rationalizing-racial-oppression/

DWB ("driving while black"), "racial profiling," these terms refer to a certain portion of racism. Those with "white privilege (http://medicolegal.tripod.com/dwb.htm#whiteprivilege)," are not subjected to it. It's more than a matter of discrimination in terms of selective enforcement. (Other forms of racism occur on the job, for example, but this site focuses on a different aspect, "Voting While Black," VWB, or attempted VWB (aka "Voting While Black or Brown"). http://medicolegal.tripod.com/dwb.htm

natina

05-20-2012, 02:25 AM

Seanchai is a moderator here

Seanchai, utilizing the skills of a typicall 11 year old, was able to discover my identity when I made comments within another thread that he disapproved of. To silence and intimidate me, he threathened to out my interest in this site to my wife, children and employer, violating the code of honor that we all extend to each other, regardless of our differences. Not one board member had the courage to call him on his act of blackmail. Which, by the way is a crime.............even in our little world. I am stunned that the moderator/administrator hasn't banned him. However, I chose not to report him, expecting others to do that.

In the matter of your wish that I die, I do not accept, as others do that it was simple hyperbole. But, I will be generous and call it an overzealous remark by a member of the thought police.

fastingforlife

05-20-2012, 02:32 AM

Seanchai is a moderator here

No wonder he operates with impunity.....very sad, indeed.

natina

05-20-2012, 02:35 AM

BREAKING NEWS ZIMMERMAN WITNESS CHANGES STORY

Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting changed story

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11761522-key-witness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story?lite

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 10:10 AM

That advice ZIMMERMAN SHOULD OF FOLLOWED THAT NIGHT!!!
Yeah liability, but also the dispatcher new Zimmerman wasn't a cop, meaning a professional so the call was right.

Liability.

If the dispatcher tells him to proceed, he places the liability on himself and/or the city. They are trained to tell you to back off and break contact. But there is no law saying you must.

BTW, in most areas, a 911 dispatcher is not a LEO. The dispatcher has no authority to give orders... only advice.

--

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 10:14 AM

HOld up where in the hell did they get he was 6'3? Report said he was only 5'11, Trayvon that is. Where is they getting the 6'3 shit from? wtf is going on here.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 10:27 AM

Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting changed story

BAmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lol :dead: That was a key witness for Zimmerman NOT ANYMORE LOL Who's case falling apart now? That's the same guy that said Tray was on top too lol He'll probably change that too "YA KNOW THINKING ABOUT IT, I, I, UMMMMMM I REALLY COULDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS DARK" LOL :dead:

That was the man at his door who slammed the door when Zimmerman and Tray go into it, and he slammed his door and it made the first pop sound before the gun went off, he ran upstairs to call police. How many ear witnesses there are 22? WoW I know Two women said they heard Tray yelling for help and their story has been consistent on three different occasions!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A key witness to the Trayvon Martin shooting changed the story he had given Sanford, Fla., police, telling state authorities he was not sure who was screaming during the altercation with George Zimmerman, NBC Dateline confirmed Friday.
The man known as Witness #6 originally told Sanford police Zimmerman cried for help. The witness stuck to his account that he saw Martin, 17, straddling Zimmerman and pinning him to the ground before Martin was shot.

On March 20, according to the Orlando Sentinel, while sitting for a follow-up interview by a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigator the witness said that he was no longer sure who was calling for help.
"At first, I thought it was the person on the ground, just because, you know, me thinking rationally, if someone was on top, the person on the bottom would be yelling," he said, according to the Sentinel. "I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk. You can't see a mouth …"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?chromedomain=usnews&lite

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 10:34 AM

As a kid I've seen skinny Black kids like Trayvon get beat down by their mother's(!), much less a grown man who outweighs him by 40#.

There's something to be said for some of you having an irrational fear of someone else's skin color.

:werd: You hit it on the head, as I told Queen I don't see Trayvon as a threat, now the news said he was only 5'11 not no dam 6'3, see how they tried to make a monster out of him? A teen just going to the store they want to make him the killer when he's dead, how the fuck does that work?

Yep you nailed it, FEAR!!! Fear of a young African descent male because some others did crime. It goes deeper than that but I won't even comment cause some are not on that level.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 10:50 AM

The fact is black poeple are probably the most racist hate filled people in the country (not that whtie people aren't). I'm just saying that black people exhibit so much anger violence towards other races because they have MASSIVE inferiority complexes that they refuse to admit. Who else advocates the killing of Korean grocers because they are EARNING money in black neighborhoods? Black people are a fucking disaster area in America (I apologize to those of you who have actually clawed your way to respecabiltity - you get a bad rap but you're stuck in a barrel of rotten apples).

Classic!!! the most pompous jack ass rhetoric yet, who can out do this person?

You said African descent people are the most racist? First off I don't us the word black to describe myself or my people, it's a foolish misnomer made up by Caucasian people who run this govt to classify us in a racial status so we're not black, we are African descent, or some perfer African american. Now that I got that out the way.

How dare you call my people the MOST RACIST in America? Are you fucking kidding me? If we were the most racist there would have been racial fights that would of lasted for 200 years.

Do you have a factual statistic showing African descent people are the most racist? Or is that her own personal opinion? I hope you have a statistic, because your personal is just that and it sounds foolish!!!

Do you even know what the real word RACISM MEANS? No it doesn't mean hate, hate means hate and that's it, to be a racist from the old dictionary not these new watered down ass dictionaries to beguile people in bullshit. If you look up the word hate, the word racism is not there, so the word hate can't mean racism, that shit makes no sense. If I hate cookies of every kind am I being a racist?

Give me the definition of a racist if you can, not this new modern shit, if you can't then I will correct you and type you a nice little educational note on real racism and why my people aren't. And you had the nerve to say "AND THE FACT IS......." That's no dam fact that's your personal opinion!!!

THEN YOU SAID THIS BULLSHIT!!! YES I HAD TO CALL IT BULLSHIT BECAUSE IT SMELLS LIKE BULLS SHIT!!!
"I'm just saying that black people exhibit so much anger violence towards other races because they have MASSIVE inferiority complexes that they refuse to admit."

Inferiority complex? Are you fucking kidding me ? LOL You don't even know the extent of why some African descent people are angry at Caucasians, don't say other races, it's mostly Caucasians. Since you said this, you never gave the reason why African descent people have an inferiority complex, you just said we do and that's it, you gave no history or scientific proof, nothing. And we are suppose to believe that? Give ten reasons why we have inferiority complexes, if you can.

I will respond to you.

AmyDaly

05-20-2012, 10:55 AM

Well the guy changed his story and said he wasn't sure who was yelling for help, but assumed it was zimmerman since he did see trayvon on top of him mma style beating him down. One could only assume that the person getting the crap beat out of them would be the one calling for help. I guess you can decide how that makes either of them look. Also, the police report says trayvon is 6'0 160 lbs and zimmerman is at 5'9 with no weight listed, but most news pages are listing him at 170 lbs.

Also, pic posted is related to this thread. Its Zimmerman after he got is ass beat lol kinda looks like a cholo to me

natina

05-20-2012, 11:08 AM

depraved indifference

I keep hearing many on this board make excuses for zimmerman but he is in the fight of his life for his life because the federal charge is the death penalty for this

Criminally Negligent Homicide

(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html

What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.

Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:

-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator

-- despite the proper protocols for any neighborhood watch program

-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement

Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.

He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.

In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,

or the firing of the gun.

Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.

If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...

then he's guilty under the law.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 11:22 AM

Also, the police report says trayvon is 6'0 160 lbs and zimmerman is at 5'9 with no weight listed, but most news pages are listing him at 170 lbs.

Also, pic posted is related to this thread. Its Zimmerman after he got is ass beat lol kinda looks like a cholo to me

I just heard the report and I don't trust the police report because they have been fucking up ever since. Anytime they tell the public that clown Zimmerman is clean and comes to find out he's not I can'f fuck with Sanford dept, and to back me up that's why they want that chief or whatever the hell his position is to step down.
Here's what the medical examiner said, those the people I listen to in their report because they are thorough in their shit!!!

http://img1.imagehousing.com/62/8927b8e1babfc7972dbe029b09df859b.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1018855)

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11761522-key-witness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story?lite

Well if he wouldn't have gotten out of his SUV his ass wouldn't look like a cholo!!! You don't run up on people, even if you are a dam watchmen. Even when I trained as a security officer back in the day, unarmed, they told me to not engage to call police and have information about any suspects. That's what I would of done instead trying to be a dam hero.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 11:27 AM

From the other report he faces, life if convicted on 2nd degree murder, but since the race thing is now pertinent, if he is convicted of that HE WILL GET THE DEATH PENALTY FOR A RACE HATE CRIME KILLING!!! Which I don't think he will get, but if he was to get it, I WOULD BE IN TOTAL SHOCK!!! More likely he'll get life in prison or some time!!!

depraved indifference

(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.

Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.

If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...

then he's guilty under the law.

giovanni_hotel

05-20-2012, 11:32 AM

LOL.

Zimmerman may be 170# now after starving himself after going in seclusion for three months, but he wasn't 170# on the night of the altercation.

About the pic you posted Amy, this is one of the main reasons I think Trayvon decided to fight Zimmerman. With his shaved head and red jacket, after following Trayvon for three blocks, IMO this kid thought he was being run up on by a gang banger.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=472434&stc=1&d=1337504097

It's typical of gang members to ask 'who you with?' or 'what are you doing here?' when they're checking out strangers who they feel shouldn't be on their turf.

IMO at night Zimmerman looked just as threatening to Trayvon as Travyon erroneously looked to George Zimmerman.

natina

05-20-2012, 11:33 AM

To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
In one case, People v Register, 60 NY2d 273, 469 NYS2d 599 (1983),while exploring the meaning of "depraved indifference recklessness" the Court of Appeals ruled that intoxication is not a defense or excuse to "depraved mind murder," although it may be to intentional murder. Its analysis started with distinguishing reckless manslaughter from the "depraved indifference recklessness" necessary for murder:
"to bring defendant’s conduct within the murder statute, the People were required to establish also that defendant’s act was imminently dangerous and presented a very high risk of death to others and that it was committed under circumstances which evidenced a wanton indifference to human life or a depravity of mind. . . . . The crime differs from intentional murder in that it results not from a specific, conscious intent to cause death, but from an indifference to or disregard of the risks attending defendant’s conduct." 60 NY2d at 274.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-indifference/

natina

05-20-2012, 11:35 AM

zimmerman is 250lbs

travon martin is 157lbs and skinny

AmyDaly

05-20-2012, 11:41 AM

Here's what the medical examiner said, those the people I listen to in their report because they are thorough in their shit!!!
I tend to believe the medical examiner more as well, and yes, it does list him at 5'11 158 lbs on that report. In comparison to zimmerman, he is about 2 inches taller and 12 lbs lighter. Pretty negligible differences. The 7-11 video gives a good idea of the actual size of him compared to the clerk. It also looks like the coroners report also indicates 2 injuries on martin. His knuckles from punching zimmerman, and the gun shot wound that was made from being shot from inches apart.

Here is the coroners report: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/martin.autopsy.pdf?hpt=hp_t1

natina

05-20-2012, 12:48 PM

Zimmerman lied claiming he was the one hollering for help a witness collaborated it then...

after information leaked that the voice forensically analyzed and it wasn't Zimmerman hollering for help the witness took back there story that it Zimmerman hollering for help Zimmerman caught in a lie cause he did not know the incident was being recorded on 911 tapes

* ZIMMERMAN IS A LIER
* ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP
** ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP HE DID NOT KNOW THE INCIDENT WAS BEING RECORDED

Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims

lies coming back to haunt you and destroy your defense zimmerman

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.
The conclusions of Owen and another audio expert were first reported by the Orlando Sentinel on Saturday.
Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense.
The 911 call, reposted in this YouTube clip, came on the night of Feb. 26 from a woman who reported someone crying out for help in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
In the recording of her phone call, panicked cries and a gunshot are heard.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting changed story
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11761522-key-witness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story?lite

Mary Cutcher, Witnesses in the Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman Shooting
Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police
Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related)

AmyDaly

05-20-2012, 01:00 PM

hard4janira

05-20-2012, 05:18 PM

Korean immigrants have been earmarked for special set-aside loans that allow them to open stores in impoverished Black communities, yet Black entrepreneurs who live in the same communities can't get a loan to open a hotdog cart. That's where the resentment comes from. Immigrants come into a Black ghetto, extract the wealth and then go home to their split level ranch home in the vanilla suburbs.

First of all, even if this is true (which I find suspicious), it doesn't justity advocating thier killing in rap music does it? Or does it? What exactly is racism in your world? Another thing is this: Black people have no right whatsoever to complaining about special loans - what do you think the community reinvestment act was all about? The federal government stepped in and forced banks to make loans to sub-prime borrowers in 'under-represended' communities during the past two decades which partly led to the housing crisis we are suffering through now. Does this give me the right to advocate the killing of Blacks and Hispanics because they got foreclosed on and I have to pick up the tab through corporate bailouts and bailouts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which guaranteed those loans?

I assumed the Chinese grad students at USC were killed by gang violence, that's why it's not a major story because it's not new.

So if I am a black male in a gang and I decide to target my victims because of thier race and systematiclly execute them then it's not worth making a big stink over because this shit happens all the time.... Holy fucking shit is this your logic? So if Zimmerman was in a gang (instead of a neighborhood watch program) then nobody would be following this story right? What difference does it make if somebody is in a gang or in the klu-klux-klan when they murder somebody? One cime is not worse than the other.

The Trayvon Martin case wouldn't be on the national radar if Zimmerman had been arrested in the beginning. His being able to walk after admitting to murdering an unarmed teen is why Trayvon's death became a 'cause'. It wasn't, ' oh, a Black kid was murdered, let's elevate his death into a national media story.'

I agree w/ you to a point. I think an arrest may have been warranted in this case - but you are way off base using the word 'murder' as if Zimmerman is guilty and must be found guilty in court. He hasn't been convicted of jack shit yet and I suspect the absolute WORSE that should happen is a manslaughter charge (if that even).

'Black people are a fucking disaster area in America'???If you get a chance, Hard4janira, look up how many AA live in poverty, how many of them are working class and lower middle class, and how many of them are incarcerated.
Jesus Christ, the bile that comes out of your mouth like it's the God's honest truth.

Just wondering, do you consider yourself a racist?? And are you proud to be one??

I know that a lot of black people are hard working folks just trying to make a living. But the fact that your community is by and large a disaster area is your own fault. Black men are failing thier community because they are not stepping up to the plate as strong leaders and father figures. You can spin it however you want but the black community will continue flounder until they start to develop stronger family units led by men.

I do think that the government is partly responsible for keeping minority familes broken due to the government programs that encourage poor choices. There is no penalty for having any number of kids out of wedlock or receiving benefits for raising your family as a single parent. The problem with this is that there is no incentive for a black male to stay with a woman and raise his children. The government will give her money in any case regardless. If you think this is silly, I suggest you google the man in Kentucky (I think in his 20's still) that has 30 children from 11 different women. What kind of human being is this, that has no regard for anything other than what hole he can stick is dick into and no thought given to how he can feed those hungry mouths. Talk about dumping your burden on society - how many of those 30 kids were born on Medicaid do you think?

hard4janira

05-20-2012, 05:27 PM

On the other hand, MalcolmX would have said that America was a disaster for Black people; anyway both you and he are wrong. Aside from the fact that Americans come from diverse origins, and are of course all equally American, you seem to be saying that the development of the US economy would have taken the course it has in spite of, not because of the presence of slavery in your country. That is simply absurd, as absurd as me arguing that India, Australia, New Zealand and Canada have been irrelevant to the development of the United Kingdom. You could be given a list of people in literature, in music, in sport, in culture, in politics all of whom trace their roots to Africa though slavery, all of whom should make you proud to be an American. But I cannot tell you what to think or feel, and there isn't much more I can say if you have already made up your mind. There is good and bad in all societies, a tired cliche I know, but it matters if one group of people are isolated from the rest, because in America that runs counter to the very principle of equality and individual liberty on which your state is based.

With all due respect, there isn't one black person living in this country who has been enslaved. Nor thier parents, nor thier parents parents, nor thier parents, parents, parents. I'm not suggesting that black people have always had equal opportunity. They haven't, but they certianly haven't made the most of the opportunity that they DO HAVE. Black communities in America are a disaster area - this a fact that is not open to debate. Just look at the % of black men in prison and tell me otherwise. We could go on all day about the reasons why (and I don't really care to) but that doesn't mean you should't acknowledge the problem. Black people actually CAN fix the problems internally, by having stronger familes and have a commitment to education that you see in white and asian familes. If you had this, the black community would clean itself up in 2 generations. And being 'poor' has nothing to do with it. Poor asians flood into this country all the time. They work hard, take nothing from the government, focus on education and bam - thier kids are the valedictorians going to med school. It's a fact.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 06:06 PM

I tend to believe the medical examiner more as well, and yes, it does list him at 5'11 158 lbs on that report. In comparison to zimmerman, he is about 2 inches taller and 12 lbs lighter. Pretty negligible differences. The 7-11 video gives a good idea of the actual size of him compared to the clerk. It also looks like the coroners report also indicates 2 injuries on martin. His knuckles from punching zimmerman, and the gun shot wound that was made from being shot from inches apart.

Here is the coroners report: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/martin.autopsy.pdf?hpt=hp_t1

I know he had injuries it's also said either he did punch Zimmerman or those injuries came from him trying to get away. Zimmerman has a little nick scratch on the top of his nose that's not consistent to Tray's hand injuries, because if Zimmerman has one cut on his face which isn't even an inch and Tray has two scares on each hand, the sum of that equation doesn't match up. So he may have got those on his hand trying to get away.

But from here on out I don't trust anything the Police dept in Sanford say they lost credibility with me mistakes ago. They handled that case terribly and I wonder why they are still in business. In light of this case the police dept past is haunting them at the same time. A can of worms have opened up on them.

At this time those who said the prosecution's case is diminishing, is not the case! It's a lie. The funny thing is the new charge brought on Zimmerman that wasn't there before is a racial crime and could get if convicted the death penalty is crazy because if he really wasn't racist this wouldn't have came up, and it looks like he won't get convicted of that but 2snd degree murder he probably will. Like I said if he gets convicted of the hate crime murder I would be in shock. A whole new can of worms opened up on Zimmerman with the employee saying Zimmerman made fun of him on the job dissing him about the middle eastern terrorist thingy then he got fired by HR because he kept calling them like a lunatic. All this is showing he is a crazy character, a lunatic at best. The the African descent woman that said he is a racist, as time goes on more is opening up on him. Nothing is looking good for him he has a dark past. Tray was 17 was only that 17 he has only been on the earth a short time and don't have much to make him out to be a monster. They tried but it's not going to work.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 06:15 PM

If those experts show professionally that it was Trayvon screaming that again is a plus and shows he feared for his life. It really looks bad for Zimmerman because he is on record lying that IT WAS HIM! If that happens and they bring in a couple of more experts and they say it was Trayvon yelling it's over for Zimmerman. Prosecutors job will be to show Zimmerman has no credibility and that he is a liar and if that shows he lied it's over for him. Once you tell one lie it's a wrap. Never mind what the mother and father say of Trayvon and Zimmerman's dad said, the experts with years of service and able to prove with a ratio of over 90% accuracy is going to bust Zimmerman in his head and the defense will fall apart. But we have to see.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 06:58 PM

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - An FBI expert found crucial evidence in the Trayvon Martin case was inconclusive, saying it was impossible to tell if the voice screaming for help belonged to the black Florida teenager or his shooter George Zimmerman just before the neighborhood watch captain pulled the trigger.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-17/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shootingbre84g1hf-20120517_1_zimmerman-supporters-evidence-gated-community

Wrong, voice recognition can find out who's voice that is. What happens is the voice is taken from the different phones of people that called the police. You record/sample a part where the caller isn't talking and all you need is a small part. You take that sample time stretch analyze it to a good length, then there is compression filter equipment and software that can filter out the noise of any back ground noise, once that's established you will see a graph of the stress levels of the voice. It will be visible and audio able. Get Zimmerman to yell since he claimed he was the one yelling, sample his voice and analyze it, the voice is like a finger print every voice has a different signature than another person. That's how it's done so it can be done I don't know what the hell the FBI is talking about. I said this before the 2 experts said it was Tray's voice, I said here they need to do a voice recognition test.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
Korean immigrants have been earmarked for special set-aside loans that allow them to open stores in impoverished Black communities, yet Black entrepreneurs who live in the same communities can't get a loan to open a hotdog cart. That's where the resentment comes from. Immigrants come into a Black ghetto, extract the wealth and then go home to their split level ranch home in the vanilla suburbs.

Very good point, people from Inida, Arabs, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc open up in African descent communities and live. There are so many Korean or Chinese restaurants it's ridiculous, and they are filthy. Roaches, cats, rats etc all around the food, food cooked in the same grease, but if you go and watch what they eat, they don't eat what they sell us. I don't eat from any of those stores and our own people need to stop shopping at those stores, yes they are angry but stop being angry organize and stop eating out of these filthy stores and manage our money. If we wanted our own stores in our own communities like we had back in the day it could happen and wouldn't even need a loan, a person could go in get the price of the place come back pay for it and then rock, and turning over money in our hood. In so called Jewish communties their money turns over in their community 4 times our community NONE!!! We get the cash and it's gone into another community hands.

That's why I don't use the status black, because we can't get certain benefits, and I am telling my people stop using this term in everyday life and applications. Those that are of other cultures get more benefits than we do, you can have a west Indian who roots is straight from African and is darker than you are, when he comes here he doesn't put down black on an application he puts other, and I use to wonder why. Now I know why because it's about words of art and law and status and classification identification status. That's why this govt was so hell bent on classifying us and getting the NAACP to pick a classification for African descent people and those fools picked black.

But the main issue African Americans are angry at Caucasians per say is slavery that has been a mental issue and the govt knows this. The effects of slavery has been handed down from generation to generation and this is well documented. Most Caucasian won't understand this and I don't expect them to, but those Caucasians who are available to test this knows this is one of the big reasons, the govt does too. But on a scale like someone said African descent people are THE MOST RACIST in America I told that person prove it, show me the old definition for racism not this new watered down definition of racism. African descent people can hate another race, prejudge another race but can't be racist, being a racist is not just hating another race, the old definition of racism tells the real deal. Hate is Hate. If anyone can go get the definition of hate and show me where the word racism is of it's meaning and synonymous to it I will acknowledge it, and I am still waiting for that person to give me an answer.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 08:00 PM

hard4janira

With all due respect, there isn't one black person living in this country who has been enslaved. Nor thier parents, nor thier parents parents, nor thier parents, parents, parents.

This is untrue on so many historical levels it's not even worth going into. Maybe you need to do some academic studies not online studying on slavery of the middle passage from Africa to the Americas. No scholar, professor or Doctor of the field and study of slavery would agree with you. Did you even know the Constitution still allows slavery? THIS DAY IN 2012!!! Let me give you some knowledge, there is a physical slavery and a mental slavery, mental slavery is more dangerous than physical slavery and I will leave it at that.

I'm not suggesting that black people have always had equal opportunity. They haven't, but they certianly haven't made the most of the opportunity that they DO HAVE.

This absolutely makes no sense, if in one hand you say African descent people haven't had EQUAL OPPS then in the next hand you say they haven't made the most of OPPS, how in the world can you tell if there hasn't been equality? There's no logic to that at all!! Do you even read the things you say? SMH Ever since Martin L. King sign that document to be assimilated in this country African descent lost their businesses and the communities, now go back and look at history. I am from Harlem and I remember our communities had lots of African descent own stores, then I seen a change happen where we were losing our communities and businesses and immigrants started coming in.

Black communities in America are a disaster area - this a fact that is not open to debate. Just look at the % of black men in prison and tell me otherwise. We could go on all day about the reasons why (and I don't really care to) but that doesn't mean you should't acknowledge the problem.

Wow!!! Statistically Caucasians commit more crimes than African descent people, that's a fact, yet there are more African descent in jail, 70% !!! And that's why. A lot of African Americans are getting out of jail who have done over 15 years for a crime they never committed by DNA which wasn't around in earlier times, and I got every African America that has gotten out of Jail from DNA justice even black Panthers Geronimo Pratt!!! So I wonder how many are really in there that didn't commit a crime hum? African Americans getting shot without weapons, Amedo Dialo was an honor student who parents came from Africa over here, he got shot 41 times for no dam reason by Caucasian cops in the entrance to where he lived. How does that work? Yes there are African Americans killing one another, so are Chinese, Hispanics, Caucasians etc, there is good and bad in each nation. I acknowledge a problem alright and I know just who it is.

Black people actually CAN fix the problems internally, by having stronger familes and have a commitment to education that you see in white and asian familes. If you had this, the black community would clean itself up in 2 generations. And being 'poor' has nothing to do with it. Poor asians flood into this country all the time. They work hard, take nothing from the government, focus on education and bam - thier kids are the valedictorians going to med school. It's a fact.

:whoa It's funny that I can't find anything to agree with you on. But I can with just one thing, African descent people can fix the problems but every time we do here comes the govt to break that up, why do you think every time we get a strong African descent leader THEY ARE FREAKIN KILLED!!!
Lets say there is a community of 10,000 of African descent people, not one African descent own business in that area, Korean or Chinese food shops own businesses and don't hire not ONE African descent person from that community. From the five boroughs of NEW YORK I have never seen in 20 years one Chinese or Korean food shop hire my people. And no one says nothing, I notice it that's why I don't support it besides the nasty unhealthy food. Lets say we boycott them so bad they move out, we get a store of our own, within 2 years the govt will hike the prices some how on that business it will be down before it even started. Then the next Chinese shop will pop up. This is how the Govt gets down African descent farmers are treated unfair to Caucasian counter parts and I can go into that but I won't you get it.

You said poor Asians come here and take nothing from the Govt and set up shop? Let me ask you, how does a POOR person who has nothing end up with a business in a community of people that are not of them and make thousands upon thousands of dollars without the Govt giving them anything? POOR is what you said, a poor person has absolutely no ends. You explain that to us logically and with proof please, I gotta see this.

The way you talk you think there is some magic wand and throw sprinkles over people heads and everything is good. Education? Are you freaking serious? Every time there is a cut where do they hit first? EDUCATION!!! It's a plan you fuck up education then you keep those who are poor, POOR !!! The education in this country is watered down and basically not really teaching my people who they really are but the Caucasian's history, I can go into how that destroys the mental but I am not. Another thing, education for my people is so crazy it's CRAZY!!! When the Govt seen that more African descent people were heading for college, what they do? RAISE THE PRICES!!! See you're not going in depth to what's going on, you don't see the real picture and who the dam puppet master is!!

TS CANDY NY

05-20-2012, 08:15 PM

hard4janira

This is untrue on so many historical levels it's not even worth going into. Maybe you need to do some academic studies not online studying on slavery of the middle passage from Africa to the Americas. No scholar, professor or Doctor of the field and study of slavery would agree with you. Did you even know the Constitution still allows slavery? THIS DAY IN 2012!!! Let me give you some knowledge, there is a physical slavery and a mental slavery, mental slavery is more dangerous than physical slavery and I will leave it at that.

This absolutely makes no sense, if in one hand you say African descent people haven't had EQUAL OPPS then in the next hand you say they haven't made the most of OPPS, how in the world can you tell if there hasn't been equality? There's no logic to that at all!! Do you even read the things you say? SMH Ever since Martin L. King sign that document to be assimilated in this country African descent lost their businesses and the communities, now go back and look at history. I am from Harlem and I remember our communities had lots of African descent own stores, then I seen a change happen where we were losing our communities and businesses and immigrants started coming in.

Wow!!! Statistically Caucasians commit more crimes than African descent people, that's a fact, yet there are more African descent in jail, 70% !!! And that's why. A lot of African Americans are getting out of jail who have done over 15 years for a crime they never committed by DNA which wasn't around in earlier times, and I got every African America that has gotten out of Jail from DNA justice even black Panthers Geronimo Pratt!!! So I wonder how many are really in there that didn't commit a crime hum? African Americans getting shot without weapons, Amedo Dialo was an honor student who parents came from Africa over here, he got shot 41 times for no dam reason by Caucasian cops in the entrance to where he lived. How does that work? Yes there are African Americans killing one another, so are Chinese, Hispanics, Caucasians etc, there is good and bad in each nation. I acknowledge a problem alright and I know just who it is.

:whoa It's funny that I can't find anything to agree with you on. But I can with just one thing, African descent people can fix the problems but every time we do here comes the govt to break that up, why do you think every time we get a strong African descent leader THEY ARE FREAKIN KILLED!!!
Lets say there is a community of 10,000 of African descent people, not one African descent own business in that area, Korean or Chinese food shops own businesses and don't hire not ONE African descent person from that community. From the five boroughs of NEW YORK I have never seen in 20 years one Chinese or Korean food shop hire my people. And no one says nothing, I notice it that's why I don't support it besides the nasty unhealthy food. Lets say we boycott them so bad they move out, we get a store of our own, within 2 years the govt will hike the prices some how on that business it will be down before it even started. Then the next Chinese shop will pop up. This is how the Govt gets down African descent farmers are treated unfair to Caucasian counter parts and I can go into that but I won't you get it.

You said poor Asians come here and take nothing from the Govt and set up shop? Let me ask you, how does a POOR person who has nothing end up with a business in a community of people that are not of them and make thousands upon thousands of dollars without the Govt giving them anything? POOR is what you said, a poor person has absolutely no ends. You explain that to us logically and with proof please, I gotta see this.

The way you talk you think there is some magic wand and throw sprinkles over people heads and everything is good. Education? Are you freaking serious? Every time there is a cut where do they hit first? EDUCATION!!! It's a plan you fuck up education then you keep those who are poor, POOR !!! The education in this country is watered down and basically not really teaching my people who they really are but the Caucasian's history, I can go into how that destroys the mental but I am not. Another thing, education for my people is so crazy it's CRAZY!!! When the Govt seen that more African descent people were heading for college, what they do? RAISE THE PRICES!!! See you're not going in depth to what's going on, you don't see the real picture and who the dam puppet master is!!
pay that Nut Case no mind, he knows that you are educated thats why he keeps fucking with you

Stavros

05-20-2012, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by hard4janira http://1.2.3.12/bmi/www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1144249#post1144249)With all due respect, there isn't one black person living in this country who has been enslaved. Nor thier parents, nor thier parents parents, nor thier parents, parents, parents. I'm not suggesting that black people have always had equal opportunity. They haven't, but they certianly haven't made the most of the opportunity that they DO HAVE. Black communities in America are a disaster area - this a fact that is not open to debate...

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact. The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proud of the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:
http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageSe...name=AAHP_home (http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AAHP_home)

As for poverty, and why some people do better than others, even in America, that is outside the breadth of this thread -for the key point to me, is that nobody knows what sort of man Trayvon Martin would have become. He was denied the opportunity -and perhaps what is so shocking to someone in the UK who has never held a gun in his life, is that the 'Stand your ground' concept is part of Florida law. From the denial of a young man's opportunity to live and be something, to the right of another to kill him. If I was an American, I would be ashamed.

fastingforlife

05-20-2012, 10:24 PM

You don't have to adopt American citizenship to be ashamed. There are plenty of shameful things happening right under your nose.

Stavros

05-20-2012, 10:58 PM

You don't have to adopt American citizenship to be ashamed. There are plenty of shameful things happening right under your nose.

Sadly true, in the case of the UK.

yodajazz

05-20-2012, 11:07 PM

Not to change the topic but does anybody know these four tough guys? Maybe jesse or al or even nobama might want to lend a hand in helping a soldier in need.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO: Blacks Brutally Beat Army Soldier In Tampa - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Mc2IZvyOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
I personally hate to see anyone jumped on by mulitple people. I am one who will jump in to help the underdog, and race makes no difference. That being said, any person with knowledge will know that the offenders, will be caught and prosecuted. But the issue I have, is that there are criminals of all races. Asians have gangs, which typically target the members of their own communities. But one major difference, in crime in differing racial communties is media exposure. I know more than one person with inside knowledge, that certain suburban ( typically White) communities, specifically try to keep crime and drug use within their communtities, out of the media. They understand that the image of their community being safe, helps to maintain their vitality. On the other hand Blacks within cities, who are caught as the result of criminal activity, are often 'paraded' on the news. This helps to perpetuate the cycle of fear. One effect of fear is that businesses refuse to offer services in inner city communtiy reducing the the amount of jobs available to youth in particular. Even before the major economic downturn, Black youth typically had unemployment rates in the 40% range.

As it has been stated in this thread, numerous time the issue in the Zimmerman case was always about justice. The case happens to higlight some of life's injustices. Tkae this as an example: When Martin's death was investigated right after the incident, the police did not, order Zimmerman to take a drug test. Yet here in Ohio, Republicans have proposed a law that would require anyone recieving public assistance to be drug tested. To be fair Zimmerman was tested as a result of his medical treatment. But I cant believe that you cannot see the irony in the comparison.

jamesedwards

05-20-2012, 11:54 PM

pay that Nut Case no mind, he knows that you are educated thats why he keeps fucking with you

Oh is that what it is? Ok thank you for the heads up, that person is messing with all of us then.

What that person don't understand and have the nerve to talk about African descent communities, WE DON'T HAVE COMMUNITIES no more. In a sweep of inner cities across America there was a change that happened and still going on, and I will only talk about Harlem.

The plan back in the late 80's into the 90's is a set up a system for the beginning of 2000, had Asians and Caucasians on tour buses touring around Harlem. We are thinking they are tourist from other countries when we saw the buses, hell no they lived already anywhere in the USA. They were shouting out properties for the near future to buy.

Now being Harlem was mostly African descent people once I found that out because I asked questions, I then said "HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MOVE IN?" Simple, THEY KICKED OUT African Americans and relocate them. It's going on right now, there are so many Caucasians in Harlem now than ever before, it's starting to look like 42nd street. This happened because they organised to get us out and knowing that New York has the best transportation system in America, not the cleanest lol Caucasians don't have to spend money to for a car to go to work they could spend less to get on public transportation. I have pics of how Harlem use to look vs how it looks now!!!

Here's some of the ways they kicked us out.

Raise the rent so dam high that you couldn't afford it so you had to move, most of the migration is to the south Bronx where it's not even more over crowded and you think the Caucasians care? Hell no they ain't worried they walking around like they don't have a care in the world, AND THAT OTHER PERSON WONDERING WHY OUR PEOPLE ANGRY? This is not only happening in NYC either. Then that same person wants to talk about OUR COMMUNITIES, that person don't know our communities were destroyed twice, once when Martin L. King signed the civil rights document with Linden B. Johnson and when President Reagan came into office and the crack epidemic basically fucked us up!!!
There were some families on public assistance, the trick to send them to the Bronx or to get them the fuck outta there were to get cases against them and if you get a 2nd case against you about anything the case worker would move your ass out, this was the biggest scam going on in early 2000's. People didn't know what was going on, so the system set shit up behind our backs to migrate us out for the welfare of Caucasian, Asians and others buying properties prior right in our faces and we didn't know it, and this person wonders why we angry? There are loads of African descent people that want to work and go to work yet still get treated like shit in 2012.

See I can go into shit from credit card scam, to employment how it's all set up, because I didn't even want to say what I just said, because a lot of people wouldn't get this shit, and some will say this is some conspiracy bullshit, which is not, it's a fact, all they gotta do is go to Harlem and you will see what the hell I am talking about. Harlem is starting to look like Park avenue with the same dam prices of Park Avenue. They did a little dumb as quoted so they won't get sued where they have to have minimum living places where the rent is for low income housing.

So to answer that person's question with a couple of reasons why African descent people are angry is how we are being treated.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 12:00 AM

We definitely knew what type of guy Zimmerman was HE WAS A PARANOID, PSYCHO MANIAC, DELUSIONAL, COP HERO WANNA BE, VIGILANTE asshole. Just looking at his past shows he wanted to be in law enforcement so bad he became psychotic about it. With people like this it always end up tragic, it will never end up good because they are maniacs !!!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 12:19 AM

Profound words!!! For a person in 2012 to say that African descent people have never been enslaved in this country leads me to think 1. they must live on another continent, 2. dumb as a motha fucka, 3. in super duper denial, 4. crazy as all out hell.

It's a definite history that is recorded and I have a lot of that history. Yet when we talk about our holocaust we are told "AWWW DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT IT WAS SO LONG AGAIN FORGET ABOUT IT"... Fuck outta here when the so call Jews talk about their holocaust no one say shit, and we suppose to forgot about our ancestors that died on the middle passage and treated like animals and all types of crazy shit I don't wanna go into which still affect my people till this day, some won't understand it because you can't see how worn my shoes are unless you have walked in them.

No this case shouldn't be about racism, but the real fact it is. But I am more concerned about race, I am concerned about the dumb ass act Zimmerman made that lead to a young teen getting killed when this shit could of been avoided. What if that was my child or anyone else child? How come he only reported African descent people looking suspicious? Are African descent people the only ones that commit crimes? There's a lot of bullshit people are scared to dialogue about, not me because I know the real. But profound what you said.

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact. The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proudof the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:
http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageSe...name=AAHP_home (http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AAHP_home)
.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 02:38 AM

Did you even know the Constitution still allows slavery? THIS DAY IN 2012!!! Let me give you some knowledge, there is a physical slavery and a mental slavery, mental slavery is more dangerous than physical slavery and I will leave it at that.

I'm laughing. Out loud, in fact.

This absolutely makes no sense, if in one hand you say African descent people haven't had EQUAL OPPS then in the next hand you say they haven't made the most of OPPS, how in the world can you tell if there hasn't been equality? There's no logic to that at all!!

I say this because public education is free. Libraries are free (funded by taxpayers) and yet I do not see many black people taking advantage of the opportunities available to them. Many blacks do not value education. It is not a virtue passed down or enforced (partly because the family unit within many black families is non-existant). It's all about the street-cred.

I am from Harlem and I remember our communities had lots of African descent own stores, then I seen a change happen where we were losing our communities and businesses and immigrants started coming in.

Nothing wrong with immigrants - what are you trying to say? Why did blacks start losing thier communites and businesses? You didn't tie the two together although you implied there is some connection.

...So I wonder how many are really in there that didn't commit a crime hum?

Probably very few.

Yes there are African Americans killing one another, so are Chinese, Hispanics, Caucasians etc, there is good and bad in each nation. I acknowledge a problem alright and I know just who it is.

AND there are blacks preying on other races too like those two grad students who were murdered at USC (but that's OK, it's just 'gang violence') nothing 'racist' here right? Let's get back to busting Zimmermans balls....

Korean or Chinese food shops own businesses and don't hire not ONE African descent person from that community. From the five boroughs of NEW YORK I have never seen in 20 years one Chinese or Korean food shop hire my people. And no one says nothing, I notice it that's why I don't support it besides the nasty unhealthy food.

Asians cook and eat nasty, unhealthy food? JEEZ, Let's not get racist here... If you look hard enough you can find a lot of healhty things to eat on an Asian menu... IF YOU LOOK. Funny that you mention it, I dont think traditional 'black' food is very healthy. I mean for fuck sake is there anything you don't deep fry? Why is adult onset diabetes so prevelent among minorities? What do you really know about nasty, unhealthy food you just blamed on asians?

Lets say we boycott them so bad they move out, we get a store of our own, within 2 years the govt will hike the prices some how on that business it will be down before it even started. Then the next Chinese shop will pop up.

Yes, lets boycott immigrants. That's not fucking racist (rolling eyes)

Every time there is a cut where do they hit first? EDUCATION!!! It's a plan you fuck up education then you keep those who are poor, POOR !!! The education in this country is watered down and basically not really teaching my people who they really are but the Caucasian's history, I can go into how that destroys the mental but I am not. Another thing, education for my people is so crazy it's CRAZY!!! When the Govt seen that more African descent people were heading for college, what they do? RAISE THE PRICES!!! See you're not going in depth to what's going on, you don't see the real picture and who the dam puppet master is!!

Statistics have shown that spending more on education doesn't translate into results. America spends far more per capital on education that almost every other nation in the world yet ranks 23 (we used to be 1st 30 years ago). It's a myth that by just spending money kids will become more educated. I won't go down the path of all the things that are wrong with education but you make another silly comment by suggesting that teaching black youth white history is somehow crazy. If you don't want to learn it because you resent white people then fine - play your little games and study black history only for self-esteem. However, your knowlege of history in the long run will be piss-poor because you will have learned a fragment of information that is historically important.

One final comment... If OJ was acquited given the evidense stacked up against him, Zimmerman should not only walk - they should give him a 200 dollar Norstroms gift card for his troubles.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 02:42 AM

Profound words!!! For a person in 2012 to say that African descent people have never been enslaved in this country leads me to think [/qoute]

Nobody ever said that, so it shouldn't lead you do to anything.

[QUOTE=jamesedwards;1144414]Zimmerman made that lead to a young teen getting killed when this shit could of been avoided. What if that was my child or anyone else child? How come he only reported African descent people looking suspicious? Are African descent people the only ones that commit crimes? There's a lot of bullshit people are scared to dialogue about, not me because I know the real. But profound what you said.

Do you honestly have to ask that question? What planet do you live on? Blacks are profiled so much more than other races because they commit a vastly disproportionate amount of crime given their % of the overall population...

Next....

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 03:43 AM

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact.

Ummm.... thanks for cluing me in on that. :confused:

The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proud of the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:

Let's stick with American citizens. ALL American citizens share the same rights (and have the same responsibilities) regardless of race. I just wish some people would hold up their end of the bargain. And I don't need a link to tell me of the accomplishments of black people. There are many blacks who have over-achieved and made the most of thier opportunities (Thomas Sowell being one of my favorites).

As for poverty, and why some people do better than others, even in America, that is outside the breadth of this thread -for the key point to me, is that nobody knows what sort of man Trayvon Martin would have become.

He wasn't off to a good start. I'm not saying he deserved to die because of it (he didn't). But let's face the facts: He was heading down the wrong path.

He was denied the opportunity -and perhaps what is so shocking to someone in the UK who has never held a gun in his life, is that the 'Stand your ground' concept is part of Florida law. From the denial of a young man's opportunity to live and be something, to the right of another to kill him. If I was an American, I would be ashamed.

I feel ashamed for those two asian grad students at USC who were murdered in their car. I sure wish they had a gun with them and had an opportunity to defendt themselves. I don't think California has a stand your ground law but I sure wish those kids had a chance. I'm ashamed to be an American because of what happened to them.

And let's clear something else up. You say that 'most' black men aren't in prison as if that statment in and of itself is something to be proud of. That statement would still be true if the split was 51/49. Are sugggesting that we ignore the facts as long as the statistics weigh in favor of how you phrase things?

There are a great many people in the black community who have called what is happenning to the black male (in terms of incarceration) an 'epidemic'. Those are thier words, not mine. I used the word 'disaster area'. I could have used 'shit storm' as well. Blacks will admit this problem in thier own community but when somebody else tries to state the obvious they go into denial. They simpy can't accept hearing the truth from outside their own walls. That is a text book example of an inferiority complex if you ask me. They need to stop pretending like nobody else knows what the fuck is going on and set about fixing the problems instead.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:09 AM

I'm laughing. Out loud, in fact.

You're laughing out loud because you don't know and have no answer for, I knew it!!!

I say this because public education is free. Libraries are free (funded by taxpayers) and yet I do not see many black people taking advantage of the opportunities available to them. Many blacks do not value education. It is not a virtue passed down or enforced (partly because the family unit within many black families is non-existant). It's all about the street-cred.

Are you kidding me? There are plenty of African descent people using libraries. Again we are not BLACK PEOPLE!!! Get that through your thick skull!!!

You are pompous, you let a few African americans that are on the wrong path make you think MANY are on the wrong path and it's just the opposite!!! Who told you African descent people don't value education? The most ruthless gang banger values education and love!!! You have been watching way to many Yo MTV Cribs and BET shows talking about street cred!!! My word!!!!

Nothing wrong with immigrants - what are you trying to say? Why did blacks start losing thier communites and businesses? You didn't tie the two together although you implied there is some connection.

Now I see why you think so poorly. Where in my debate did I say anything is wrong with immigrants? I stated they come here and get benefits faster than the honest African descent person that's been here for years can get. You asked me what am I trying to say? LOL :dead: What I have already said, in plain English you figure it out. I already told you why and when African descent people lost their communities, do you read? smh

Probably very few.

Oh dam you say that so nonchalantly like it ain't no thang that there are innocent African descent people in jail.

AND there are blacks preying on other races too like those two grad students who were murdered at USC (but that's OK, it's just 'gang violence') nothing 'racist' here right? Let's get back to busting Zimmermans balls....

That's not cool that they did that, and I hope they get caught and face the penalty. But for years African descent people been killing their own, old timers use to tell them "GO OUT AND TAKE FROM WHITEY STOP TAKING FROM YOUR OWN WHO HAVE NOTHING", so I guess it's coming home to roost just now. But is it right? Nope, I don't agree with it. But you didn't say nothing about these Police gangs that kill African descent people on the reg, and you won't say nothing. You could care less!!!

Asians cook and eat nasty, unhealthy food? JEEZ, Let's not get racist here... If you look hard enough you can find a lot of healhty things to eat on an Asian menu... IF YOU LOOK. Funny that you mention it, I dont think traditional 'black' food is very healthy. I mean for fuck sake is there anything you don't deep fry? Why is adult onset diabetes so prevelent among minorities? What do you really know about nasty, unhealthy food you just blamed on asians?

LOL, :dead: Lets deal with this, you said LETS NOT GET RACIST, tell me what the original definition from the old dictionary of what racism is. As an African descent person I can never be racist, I can prejudge, and hate, but to be racist, do you even know what that really entails? So tell me what is racism.

Now for the FACT that I said those Chinese and Korean shops in the hood are nasty IT'S A FACT!!! Especially in the 5 boroughs I have been. I don't know how they do that shit in the Ukraine or wherever the hell you're from but the shops in New York are nasty and unhealthy!!! I'm not eating at those shops. Now, I can tell the difference from a Chinese cuisine shop down in lower Manhattan from one that's in the hood like Harlem or BK. Their shops are cleaner and their food is put together better than the ones in the hood, how do I know? EXPERIENCE!!! I stopped eating at those shops when I got conscious of what the hell is going on. What I present is fact if I didn't then it would be just pure rhetoric. The food is supper greasy, they use the same frying oil over and over, roaches and cats out in the open, and you're going to tell me that's ok? Hell outta here with that. Now if you read what the hell I said I said they cook for us one way and they eat another way, they don't even eat what they cook for us, they eat healthy, so what that tell you? Ask anyone who lives in NYC they know they don't eat the food they cook for us. You would think they would because they are serving the food but they don't, many times I have watched them eat, and I would clock when they would go to lunch and dinner come down and monitor what they eat and they don't eat that fried shit they serve to my people or Hispanic people.

Now I agree there, African descent people don't eat healthy, one because they lost site, two the nasty meats they sell on the market are filled with disease, and injected with female hormones and all types of variables. I don't eat red meat, I don't drink milk, I don't fuck with pig, I deal with veggie food, organic foods, lots of fruits and vegetables, fish, and kosher chicken. I dare not touch that chicken in supermarkets. See I have so much fucking knowledge on shit, if I was to write what I knew, HA would fucking shut down!!!
Now let me take your ass on a history hike because you need one. In Africa before the Caucasian Europeans took African slaves and brought them here, our diet was fantastic, we didn't eat pork, if we ate meat we would fast to clean the system, lots of water and grains and protein and we mostly were lean and muscular.
Got here the slave owners had a plan to take away our culture, deities, dietary methods, family, music, language etc. There was a plan to cut the AFrican family and divide the woman against the man, and I won't go into details, they broke us just like they did horses. At this time we didn't have ownership of food, the slave owners gave my people what they wanted to give them and a big deal of it was pork!!! I can break the science of that filthy animal down but I don't need to unless asked to. Slave owners who were Caucasian fed slaves grits and pork. Now some of the slaves wouldn't eat the pork so the slave owners starved them, so what do you think they did when they were starved and then offered the pork? They ate it to stay alive. Then as time went on African slaves mastered the art of cooking and seasoning pork and it became an American dish. Now today it's hard to get my people off it, unless you are a Muslim or a African descent Hebrew Israelite Falasha Jew or like me who have Afro-centricity and won't put up with the bullshit. My people eat meat to much, and do it back to back, not to much exercise like back in the day and don't fast enough nor drink enough water. African descent people are messed up in diabetes, high blood tension, high blood pressure, cancer, colon cancer more than Caucasians. And continuing eating out of these fast food places such as McDonalds and Chinese restaurants is no help. I can go on and on, but by now I hope you get it.

Yes, lets boycott immigrants. That's not fucking racist (rolling eyes)

Are you crazy? Or just Looney mixed with insaneism? Yeah I made up that word because it's just as crazy as you are. You said lets boycott immigrants, where did I say boycott immigrants? Show me? I said boycott those in the communities that don't hire us or give poor service and I gave you specific names, there are Arabs who hire African descent people, so call Jew, Italians etc. So when you say immigrants YOU ARE GENERALIZING and trying to catch me out there. I have been trained to watch words of art and you can't do that with me, you can't play dialectic acrobatics with me, try that shit with someone else. I gave you again specifically who I said and you took it to be general. So roll your eyes at yourself for trying to be slick.

Statistics have shown that spending more on education doesn't translate into results. America spends far more per capital on education that almost every other nation in the world yet ranks 23

I won't even go into this deeply I think I typed enough. Again do you read the shit you say? Every time there is a cut, it's on education, so how the hell do they spend? Teachers are not paid well enough.......ahhh fuck it, China is laughing at the US, Japan is laughing at the USA they even made commercials laughing and saying how stupid Americans are.
But it's funny ass hell though they spending hella money on INSTITUTIONAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES let me simplify that for you MORE PRISONS!!! But money for education that will help prevent people from going to jail and making Jobs for people in America seems a waste of time. SMH

One final comment... If OJ was acquited given the evidense stacked up against him, Zimmerman should not only walk - they should give him a 200 dollar Norstroms gift card for his troubles.

And you try to call me a racist? LOL :dead::dead::dead: LOL Fucking unbelievable!!!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:22 AM

[quote=jamesedwards;1144414]
Nobody ever said that, so it shouldn't lead you do to anything.
Do you honestly have to ask that question? What planet do you live on? Blacks are profiled so much more than other races because they commit a vastly disproportionate amount of crime given their % of the overall population...

Next....

I am living on Planet earth, in New York City. The planet you're living on must be on Nibiru!!! The second star to the fucking left!!!

While we are being profiled there's someone of another race getting by with drugs or guns lol figure that shit out.
It’s a legitimate question–widely debated and honestly, difficult to answer. Making matters more difficult, many statistics gathered on the topic appear to have been compiled with underlying motives based on what the researcher wanted to find.
One also has to make sure to find percentages as opposed to outright numbers, since the U.S. is a predominantly Caucasian owned and ran country. Numbers without respect to each race’s population are relatively useless.

AND I WILL END IT WITH THAT!!!

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 05:35 AM

There's no point arguing with hard5janira. He for some reason believes the majority of Black people in this country represent a criminal, degenerate underclass, as if 75% Black Americans are a part of a criminal class in this country.

It would help this cat if he actually did RESEARCH to get some numbers behind his racist screeds, that way he might learning something instead of regurgitating right wing propaganda, but hey why let truth get in the way when you're on a roll.

Why is OJ brought up in relation to the Trayvon murder??? When is justice supposed to be about 'payback'?? Why is Zimmerman the horse so many racist bigots are betting on for some kind of racial comeuppance??

Apparently hard4janira has never heard of 're-gentrification' either, as if some of us are making that shit up too.

WHen you say 'the Black community is a fucking disaster area', and don't qualify or translate that statement into common english, sorry but the average person is gonna take that as a RACIST commentary.

My family and extended family are not on welfare, aren't in an out of prison. They are military officers, college professors and business owners, they are MARRIED with children, they own their own homes. IMO my own Black family is not that exceptional. There are literally tens of thousands of Black families like mine.
But the nutjobs like you hard5janira think what you hear on the news and right wing radio is the MAJORITY of Black people's reality, instead representing a subclass within the Black community.

Yes there's a crisis of incarceration in the Black community of young Black men being locked up for years for NON-VIOLENT DRUG CRIMES, which is a whole other discussion by itself. Too bad our 'fair and just legal system' doesn't target suburban middle class drug dealers for arrest and conviction, since half of the BM locked up on minor drug offenses could be replaced by their White counterparts if justice was truly blind.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:41 AM

Well if hard5janira. can contradict the FBI Giovanni with some sources and not mere talk then I will listen.

FBI RECORDS OF CRIMINAL STATISTICS

In 2010, 7,066,154 Caucasians and 2,846,862 African Americans were arrested for some reason or another. In the U.S. in 2010, the population included 223,553,265 Caucasians and 38,929,319 African Americas.

But yet 70% of the prison population is African American, do the math on that shit.!!!

Caucasians are more likely than anyone to commit and have committed serial killings. And those are mostly Caucasian men.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:55 AM

Why is OJ brought up in relation to the Trayvon murder???
My family and extended family are not on welfare, aren't in an out of prison. They are military officers, college professors and business owners, they are MARRIED with children, they own their own homes. IMO my own Black family is not that exceptional. There are literally tens of thousands of Black families like mine.
But the nutjobs like you hard5janira think what you hear on the news and right wing radio is the MAJORITY of Black people's reality, instead representing a subclass within the Black community.

Yes there's a crisis of incarceration in the Black community of young Black men being locked up for years for NON-VIOLENT DRUG CRIMES, which is a whole other discussion by itself. Too bad our 'fair and just legal system' doesn't target suburban middle class drug dealers for arrest and conviction, since half of the BM locked up on minor drug offenses could be replaced by their White counterparts if justice was truly blind.

That's why I said

And you try to call me a racist? LOL LOL Fucking unbelievable!!!

Just laughed and kept it moving I have typed enough, I was not going there.

Funny thing is Caucasians can commit the same crime as a African descent person and get a total different prison sentence. Now that's some real bullshit.
See all those white collar jobs are here and being committed but I guess since they are not guttertized no one put them in statistics. SMH World Com and all those other companies that fell after it were CAUCASIAN OWNED and had nothing to do with African descent people, those are the top executives, CEO's, CFO's, Vice Presidents etc committing crimes and fucking people over!!!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:57 AM

Testimony from hispanic New Jersey state trooper Emblez Longoria in 1999 suggested that this issue (racial profiling) was not specific to Maryland. Longoria said that co-workers and bosses were pressuring him to stop black and hispanic drivers illegally simply to fulfill quota. He alleged that he was harassed and denied promotions when he refused to do so.

I can do this shit all day long !!! But yet asked me what planet I am on, fucking unbelievable!!!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:05 AM

And what the most craziest shit is in America when Caucasian youth side with African descent youth those Caucasians are called TRAILER CRASH, aka Ni*** lovers!!! There are some Caucasian adults that don't like what the Caucasian adults are doing and they are called trash, why is that?

Just like in this Trayvon incident, people are not looking at the dam video of protesters, it's not all African descent people, there are a hellava lot of Caucasian people out there, with Hispanics also, so what the fuck is people like Hajira talking about? I know they are racist to the core and want some due back from the OJ case. Get the fuck outta here He was found not guilty, and people still got pus in their mouths over that shit. That's how you know real racism exist!!!

On one motha fucking hand "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" Soon as OJ was found not guilty motha fuckas still said he was guilty, how does that shit work?
Fucked up for OJ, since this person wants to bring this shit up, that dude OJ put half his wife's family through fucking school etc. She was a fucking drug user and doing all types of shit. That's OJ's fault though but it goes to say Nicole was no fucking angel!!!

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 06:10 AM

There's no point arguing with hard5janira. He for some reason believes the majority of Black people in this country represent a criminal, degenerate underclass, as if 75% Black Americans are a part of a criminal class in this country.

I don't believe that - you made that up. I DO believe, however, that a disproportionate number of black males commit a disproportionate number of crimes. It's a fact.

Why is OJ brought up in relation to the Trayvon murder??? When is justice supposed to be about 'payback'?? Why is Zimmerman the horse so many racist bigots are betting on for some kind of racial comeuppance??

I didn't say anything about 'payback'. I brought it up because OJ walked with a MOUNTAIN of physical evidence working against his favor. You people have already convicted Zimmerman (as has the media) largely on CIRCUMSTANCIAL evidence. I think that if a jury can aquit OJ based on that a jury of Zimmerman's peers would reasonably let him walk. I hope those of you who want to flush Zimmermans life away because you think he's a racist should find more physical evidence in your favor. But this doesn't matter to you people.. you don't give a fuck about justice. You bablble on about racism and hate crimes - you fuckers don't have a clue what that bullshit means. If you did, you'd be just as outraged at the murder of the two USC students. But you're not. You don't give a fuck about hate crime justice at all.

WHen you say 'the Black community is a fucking disaster area', and don't qualify or translate that statement into common english, sorry but the average person is gonna take that as a RACIST commentary.

I don't care how you take it. It's a fact, you just can't accept hearing it from white people. People INSIDE your own community have been saying that for years (they call it an 'epipdemic'). What % of black men have been or will be in prison? It's over 40%. That's not normal, but go back to putting your head in the sand.

My family and extended family are not on welfare, aren't in an out of prison. They are military officers, college professors and business owners, they are MARRIED with children, they own their own homes. IMO my own Black family is not that exceptional. There are literally tens of thousands of Black families like mine.

I think that's terrific. Good for you. I still wouldn't trust you if I saw you wearing a hoodie walking around my neighborhood. Why should I? There are too many bad apples. I can't afford to end up like those two USC students. Sorry, I'm profiling you until your community gets its shit together.

Yes there's a crisis of incarceration in the Black community of young Black men being locked up for years for NON-VIOLENT DRUG CRIMES, which is a whole other discussion by itself. Too bad our 'fair and just legal system' doesn't target suburban middle class drug dealers for arrest and conviction, since half of the BM locked up on minor drug offenses could be replaced by their White counterparts if justice was truly blind.

Fair enough. I think that there is merit to what you are saying there.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 06:14 AM

On one motha fucking hand "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" Soon as OJ was found not guilty motha fuckas still said he was guilty, how does that shit work?
Fucked up for OJ, since this person wants to bring this shit up, that dude OJ put half his wife's family through fucking school etc. She was a fucking drug user and doing all types of shit. That's OJ's fault though but it goes to say Nicole was no fucking angel!!!

Lol, you're a basket case. Is Zimmerman innocent until proven guilty? I didn't think so....

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:25 AM

Lol, you're a basket case. Is Zimmerman innocent until proven guilty? I didn't think so....

Yeah he has that right he is innocent until proven guilty.

But I guess you're swarming all over the innocent until proven guilty thing. That wasn't the initial problem, see you jump and dance so much you forget the first intention of what this was about. IT WAS ABOUT ZIMMERMAN NOT BEING FUCKING ARRESTED AFTER HE ADMITTING TO KILLING A PERSON!!! That's why the people were outraged and people like you made it a fucking race issue when it wasn't about that at all.

You called me a basket case huh, after all I said? Hummm yeah it would come to that being you can't fuck with what I said as facts!!! But I will be a basket case no problem, but I know who I really am, so thank you for those words, cause if that's all you could come up with, I think I will take that as a compliment. :dancing:

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:38 AM

HARD4JANIRA REFUTE THIS IF YOU CAN!!!!

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 910,200 of the men and women behind bars last year were black, 777,500 were white and 395,400 were Hispanic.

In 1997, about 9 percent of the black population in the U.S. was under some form of correctional supervision compared to 2 percent of the white population and over 1 percent of other races.

Blacks were two times more likely than Hispanics and five times more likely than whites to be in jail.

But those numbers count only those who were jailed for a crime. In 2003, more than twice as many whites as blacks were arrested and charged with a crime, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

Of 9.5 million offenses charged, 6.7 million whites were arrested, compared to 2.5 million blacks.

The most common crimes were drug abuse violations, resulting in arrest of 770,430 whites and 381,006 blacks.

Whites were far more likely to be arrested driving under the influence. Of 998,035 total offenses, 877,810 of those arrested where whites.

Blacks, meanwhile, were more than twice as likely as whites to be arrested for gambling, 5,153 to 1,964.

And while blacks comprise about 13 percent of the population, they were charged with most of the robberies, 40,993 compared to 33,070 for whites, and nearly as many homicides--4,395 black and 4,454 white.

Whites outnumbered blacks about 2-1 in arrests for other crimes, including rape (11,766-6,114), aggravated assault (203,076-103,697), burglary (143,889-103,697) and larcey/theft (556,215-233,806.)

Whites also were most often arrested for motor vehicle theft, arson, other assaults, fraud, embezzlement, dealing in stolen property, vandalism, weapons charges, prostitution, sex offenses, crimes against families and children, liquor laws, drunkenness, disorderly conduct, vagrancy, curfew and loitering, suspicion, as runaways and all other offenses not including traffic.

natina

05-21-2012, 06:40 AM

THE FBI does not have the state of the art voice analysis technology ZIMM LIED!

look below!
*two forensic voice identification experts

*"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence

*Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

TRAYVON MARTIN ORIGINAL 911 CALL ENHANCED VERSION! (Screams) Last word (HELP) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxJieDtLo0&feature=related)

Zimmerman Screamed For Help, Not Trayvon Martin Says Eyewitness "John" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVldtfNo3w&feature=related)

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - An FBI expert found crucial evidence in the Trayvon Martin case was inconclusive, saying it was impossible to tell if the voice screaming for help belonged to the black Florida teenager or his shooter George Zimmerman just before the neighborhood watch captain pulled the trigger.

joe oliver exposed as fraud (Trayvon Martin case)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRW73Wb5FLc&feature=related

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-17/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shootingbre84g1hf-20120517_1_zimmerman-supporters-evidence-gated-community

Zimmerman lied claiming he was the one hollering for help a witness collaborated it then...

after information leaked that the voice forensically analyzed and it wasn't Zimmerman hollering for help the witness took back there story that it Zimmerman hollering for help Zimmerman caught in a lie cause he did not know the incident was being recorded on 911 tapes

* ZIMMERMAN IS A LIER
* ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP
** ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP HE DID NOT KNOW THE INCIDENT WAS BEING RECORDED

Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims

lies coming back to haunt you and destroy your defense zimmerman

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.
The conclusions of Owen and another audio expert were first reported by the Orlando Sentinel on Saturday.
Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense.
The 911 call, reposted in this YouTube clip, came on the night of Feb. 26 from a woman who reported someone crying out for help in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
In the recording of her phone call, panicked cries and a gunshot are heard.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting changed story
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11761522-key-witness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story?lite

Mary Cutcher, Witnesses in the Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman Shooting
Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police
Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related)

fastingforlife

05-21-2012, 06:58 AM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:58 AM

You know how I know it was Trayvon yelling because instantly when the shot went off the yelling stopped, I mean instantly, and being Trayvon was the one shot, it was him. If it was Zimmerman you would of heard a little bit more screaming and it would of been calming down it wouldn't have automatically shut off like that because Zimmerman was alive. A witness said he he/she saw Zimmerman he was just over Trayvon, not saying nothing with his hand on his head. If it was really Zimmerman he would of made more noise and he would of been scrambling than what the witness said.

Remember John as they called him was the one who said she closed his door and ran for the phone, that's the one that closed his door and you hear the first pop noise. He was standing ground level when that went down, I believe he could of seen who threw he first punch.

natina

05-21-2012, 07:01 AM

Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative

Tim Wise on the Creation of Whiteness
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip

Tim Wise on White Privilege
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-white-privilege-teaser

HARD4JANIRA REFUTE THIS IF YOU CAN!!!!

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 910,200 of the men and women behind bars last year were black, 777,500 were white and 395,400 were Hispanic.

In 1997, about 9 percent of the black population in the U.S. was under some form of correctional supervision compared to 2 percent of the white population and over 1 percent of other races.

Blacks were two times more likely than Hispanics and five times more likely than whites to be in jail.

But those numbers count only those who were jailed for a crime. In 2003, more than twice as many whites as blacks were arrested and charged with a crime, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

Of 9.5 million offenses charged, 6.7 million whites were arrested, compared to 2.5 million blacks.

The most common crimes were drug abuse violations, resulting in arrest of 770,430 whites and 381,006 blacks.

Whites were far more likely to be arrested driving under the influence. Of 998,035 total offenses, 877,810 of those arrested where whites.

Blacks, meanwhile, were more than twice as likely as whites to be arrested for gambling, 5,153 to 1,964.

And while blacks comprise about 13 percent of the population, they were charged with most of the robberies, 40,993 compared to 33,070 for whites, and nearly as many homicides--4,395 black and 4,454 white.

Whites outnumbered blacks about 2-1 in arrests for other crimes, including rape (11,766-6,114), aggravated assault (203,076-103,697), burglary (143,889-103,697) and larcey/theft (556,215-233,806.)

Whites also were most often arrested for motor vehicle theft, arson, other assaults, fraud, embezzlement, dealing in stolen property, vandalism, weapons charges, prostitution, sex offenses, crimes against families and children, liquor laws, drunkenness, disorderly conduct, vagrancy, curfew and loitering, suspicion, as runaways and all other offenses not including traffic.

natina

05-21-2012, 07:04 AM

2 forensic experts will testify that it was not George Zimmerman crying for help. THE ONLY OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION IS THAT ITS trayvon martin screaming for help

Zimmerman lied claiming he was the one hollering for help a witness collaborated it then...

after information leaked that the voice wforensicallyaanalyzedied and it was nZimmermanman hollering for help the witness took back there story that it wZimmermanman hollering for heZimmermanerman caught in a lie cause he did not know the incident was being recorded on 911 tapes

* ZIMMERMAN IS A LIER

* ZIMMERMAN LIED ABOUT CRYING FOR HELP

Mary Cutcher, Witnesses in the Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman Shooting
Expert Voice Analysis's Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2r9I2tnnGs&feature=related)

Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police
Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related)

You know how I know it was Trayvon yelling because instantly when the shot went off the yelling stopped, I mean instantly, and being Trayvon was the one shot, it was him. If it was Zimmerman you would of heard a little bit more screaming and it would of been calming down it wouldn't have automatically shut off like that because Zimmerman was alive. A witness said he he/she saw Zimmerman he was just over Trayvon, not saying nothing with his hand on his head. If it was really Zimmerman he would of made more noise and he would of been scrambling than what the witness said.

Remember John as they called him was the one who said she closed his door and ran for the phone, that's the one that closed his door and you hear the first pop noise. He was standing ground level when that went down, I believe he could of seen who threw he first punch.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:08 AM

Wouldn't it be wonderful, if the notion of race did not exist. If it was against the law to track and report a person's race either by the government or private enterprise?

I would love to see a movement to do away with race categories, so we can get on with the business of just getting along. Especially, with all the mixed race people in the world, President Obama included. To be exact, he is not our first black president he is our first mixed race president. But, if race wasn't an issue, he would be known as our first president from Hawaii. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

I like how you threw that PRESIDENT FROM HAWAII in there lol :dead: You gotta prove that buddy.

What you said is nice, I like it, and it was like that back in Africa being that's the place of civilization. People were not scene based on their complexion though they loved their complexion due to the science and the sun. They primarily went by Nation as a sovereign place and by personal names. Personal names would basically be given to carve out a wonderful character for you and some times wretched names also, mostly good names.

Racism makes money in the capitalistic country, the govt want it like this because of how they began their constitution with Mulatto and Quad Mulatto and one drop blood rule and all that bullshit. That's how white supremacy works they are not trying to be lumped into one, they feel they are better and it should be a category of who's who. That's the realism of it, what you are talking once happened and it's gone due to slavery and racism.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:09 AM

Yep Natina Mary Cutcher is saying basically what I am saying, it's common sense, yet the police didn't even want her FACTUAL AND LOGICAL statement, that's why I don't trust shit they say!!!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:14 AM

:dead: See Natina, what did I say? Didn't I say Caucasians are not white people that when they came here they were known as Christians and white became a status classification identity prop? And Africans never called themselves black, that's why I don't use that term, I gave the break down of it and I wish my people would stop using that term BLACK.

Great video I seen him back in the day, now people it's coming from a Caucasian and he's right they were fighting each other in Europe, ala Russia Caucus Mountains. These people here have no idea what type of knowledge I have a lot of these racist are ignorant to the bone, literally!!

Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative

Tim Wise on the Creation of Whiteness
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip

Tim Wise on White Privilege
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-white-privilege-teaser

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:34 AM

Once the two forensic experts show it wasn't Trayvon it's a wrap for Zimmerman!!! Because that will show he lied and if you lie one time your credibility is shot!!! So now they are working on getting old footage of Tray in his high pitch sounds like playing football or some sport or just playing around yelling. See they not going to get in court and the defense ask them did they do a test on Trayvon and they say no, they will be able to say yes. They are doing that now.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:39 AM

That's why when some fool here say "BLACK FOLK ARE MORE RACIST THAN ANY OTHER RACE" I just laugh because they obviously don't know the true meaning of that word. They do what everyone else does and role with the band wagon without thinking for a moment and studying. From the original definition African descent people is not and can't be racist, again we can be prejudice and hate, but I ask if I say I hate all Hispanics, will that affect them just by me saying that? Nope, that's why hate is hate and hating another race or ethnic group is not racist it's just what it is HATE!!!! Which is no better but my point is to pull hate away from the word racism as though it's synonymous to one another because if it was when you look up the word hate, racism would be some where in there and it's not at all.

maddygirl

05-21-2012, 08:15 AM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 10:27 AM

I'm sorry but that's not true. Hating a race of people or specific ethnic group IS racist. It doesn't matter if you're white, hispanic, or black, if you're hating an entire group of people based on race, you're being racist.

No it's not, show me the original meaning of racist. Do you know what the original meaning is? I'm not talking about the cliche you follow or think you know. The original meaning of being a racist. Racism affect people, if I say I hate all Hispanics that is not racism, that's hate!!! It's not really a racist comment. Why do you think when they put out reports they call it A HATE CRIME lol Because technically if you say you hate an entire race it's just that it's not racism. Now I want you to give me the original meaning of racism because hating an entire race or ethnic group is not racist. And there are only three races on the planet. I hope you know that too.

Some of you just follow what others have told you and you don't study words you just say it and think everyone else is wrong. If you think I am wrong prove me wrong. Because soon as you do I am going to drop the fucking bomb on you!!! Racism is not hating, show me where the word hate has in it's definition racism as being synonymous with it. Usually when words have a meaning in it you don't understand you can go to that word and then when you get that word the original word that lead you there is more times is there.

rac·ism http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Notice how hatred is number three that's modern input and it's not the original definition. Again direct racism affect people, and if you say hating a race or ethnic people is the same as racism you're totally wrong because if I hate a race or ethnic group it doesn't affect that group all I am doing is expressing a feeling.

hate [heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

natina

05-21-2012, 11:09 AM

you mean

Once the two forensic experts show it was Trayvon it's a wrap for Zimmerman!!! Because that will show he lied and if you lie one time your credibility is shot!!!

its already a wrap for zimmerman

he caught in many lies and inconsistency's

correction for this below

Once the two forensic experts show it wasn't Trayvon it's a wrap for Zimmerman!!! Because that will show he lied and if you lie one time your credibility is shot!!! So now they are working on getting old footage of Tray in his high pitch sounds like playing football or some sport or just playing around yelling. See they not going to get in court and the defense ask them did they do a test on Trayvon and they say no, they will be able to say yes. They are doing that now.

Willie Escalade

05-21-2012, 11:17 AM

maddygirl

05-21-2012, 12:05 PM

No it's not, show me the original meaning of racist. Do you know what the original meaning is? I'm not talking about the cliche you follow or think you know. The original meaning of being a racist. Racism affect people, if I say I hate all Hispanics that is not racism, that's hate!!! It's not really a racist comment. Why do you think when they put out reports they call it A HATE CRIME lol Because technically if you say you hate an entire race it's just that it's not racism. Now I want you to give me the original meaning of racism because hating an entire race or ethnic group is not racist. And there are only three races on the planet. I hope you know that too.

Some of you just follow what others have told you and you don't study words you just say it and think everyone else is wrong. If you think I am wrong prove me wrong. Because soon as you do I am going to drop the fucking bomb on you!!! Racism is not hating, show me where the word hate has in it's definition racism as being synonymous with it. Usually when words have a meaning in it you don't understand you can go to that word and then when you get that word the original word that lead you there is more times is there.

rac·ism http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Notice how hatred is number three that's modern input and it's not the original definition. Again direct racism affect people, and if you say hating a race or ethnic people is the same as racism you're totally wrong because if I hate a race or ethnic group it doesn't affect that group all I am doing is expressing a feeling.

hate [heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
It doesn't matter to me what you think the definition is. And it's also funny that you'd pick a site that contradicts your orginal point and uses hatred of another race as the DEFINITION of RACISM. If you hate a whole ethnic group you're being racist, end of story. Don't try to justify racism. So it has to affect people huh? Well don't you think BEFORE it affects people it starts with HATE. Come on now.

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 12:43 PM

We're arguing semantics. For practical purposes on the micro- level, anyone individually can be a racist/bigot.

Racism isn't always institutional or only a byproduct of someone who's a part of the cultural or racial majority in the country.

Prospero

05-21-2012, 12:54 PM

So following Jamesedward's definition of racism the persecution of the Jews by the Nazis was not racism?

I know where he is coming from. The notion that briefly held currency that it is or was impossible for a group who in a minority and have been historically discriminated against cannot be racist towards the majority group that oppresses them. But this is an politically expedient political position and certainly not really based on a n honest examination of the behaviour of groups.

Thus there have in recent times been any times when a group who might be seen to be oppressed are racist towards another group. in the Uk for instance the Afro-Caribbean community practice discriminations the Somali community. Many people from Trinidad hate Jamaicans. And in the Zimbabwe under Ronert Mugabe there has, for some years, been clear proof of discrimination again the former white ruling group. You might try to justify that as revenge but it is - nonetheless - racist.

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 01:05 PM

This is why I can't talk to you because on serious topics you pull Stormfront statistics out of your ass.

What % of black men have been or will be in prison? It's over 40%. That's not normal, but go back to putting your head in the sand.

The U.S. Bureau of Justice statistics says that 1 in 3 BM can expect to go to prison over their lifetimes. Still too high at 33%, but saying it's over forty percent is crazy.

If you think the racial makeup of U.S. prisons is purely a criminological analysis and doesn't factor in a racial bias from both the police and the court system, you my friend are the one with his 'head in the sand.'

natina

05-21-2012, 01:09 PM

he needs a prescription of TIM WISE

white person is more likely to shot up a school,kill his whole family, serial killer
TIM WISE
talks about white violence because of the coping factor
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html (http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html)

Has Black Friday arrived in America? If so, are you prepared?

Actually, if you're a "white" American, there's a good chance that you're less prepared than other Americans. Emotionally that, is. And mentally. Maybe even physically.

As is so often the case, Tim Wise has explained well this common symptom of learning to be white:

Racism and white privilege/supremacy generates a mindset of entitlement among those in the dominant group. This entitlement mentality can prove dangerous, whenever the expectations of a member of the group are frustrated. Principally this is because such persons develop very weak coping skills as a result of never having to overcome the obstacles that oppressed folks deal with every day and MUST conquer in order to survive.

So, as a result, it is the privileged (the beneficiaries of racism, and also, it should be pointed out, the class system) who are ill-prepared for setback: the loss of a job, stocks taking a nose-dive (who were the folks jumping out the windows in the great depression–not poor folks and folks of color, but rich whites who couldn’t handle being broke!) Likewise, if you look at the various personal pathologies that tend to be disproportionate in the white community (and upper middle class for that matter), they are interesting in that they all are about control–controlling one’s anxiety, emotional pain, or controlling and dominating others–like suicide, substance abuse, eating disorders, self-injury/mutilation, serial killing and mass murder (as opposed to just regular one-on-one homicide), sexual sadism killings, etc.

Not knowing how the world works is dangerous. White privilege and racism allow the dominant group to live in a bubble of unreality. Most days that’s no big deal I suppose. But every now and then reality intrudes on you and if you haven’t been expecting it, the trauma is magnified. So, when 9/11 happened, millions of whites were running around saying “why do they hate us?” because whites have never had to see our nation the way others do–we’ve been able to live in la-la land.

But folks of color didn’t say this, because those without privilege HAVE to know what others think about them. Not to do so is to be in perpetual danger. So whites flipped out, and by virtue of being unprepared, pushed for a policy response (war) that folks of color were HIGHLY skeptical of from the beginning. But whites, enthralled by our sense of righteousness (itself a manifestation of privilege), pushed forward, convinced that the war in Iraq would go swimmingly. How’s that working out?
In other words, racism and privilege generate mentalities and policies that are dysfunctional, even deadly for whites as with folks of color. Folks of color are the first victims, to be sure, and the worst. But as someone else said, what goes around. . .
Privilege creates a false sense of security. Being the dominant group can set you up for a fall, can prevent you from building up the coping skills needed to deal with setback, because so often those skills are ones you just don't need.
Until you do, that is.

[This quotation is adapted from two sources: a comment Tim Wise wrote at Resist Racism (http://resistracism.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/how-does-racism-harm-white-people/), and one of his books, White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son (http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9781933368993-0). Lyrics (http://www.steelydan.com/lyrkaty.html#track1) for Steely Dan's song "Black Friday"]

This is a clip from The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality, the newly released video from the Media Education Foundation. The video is of a speech given by Tim Wise at Mt. Holyoke College, October 1, 2007.

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wis...whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)

more complete video but has relatedlinks/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEW...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlN...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related)

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1)

affirmative action /school bias
white people have affimative action to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0)

This is why I can't talk to you because on serious topics you pull Stormfront statistics out of your ass.

What % of black men have been or will be in prison? It's over 40%. That's not normal, but go back to putting your head in the sand.

The U.S. Bureau of Justice statistics says that 1 in 3 BM can expect to go to prison over their lifetimes. Still too high at 33%, but saying it's over forty percent is crazy.

If you think the racial makeup of U.S. prisons is purely a criminological analysis and doesn't factor in a racial bias from both the police and the court system, you my friend are the one with his 'head in the sand.'

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 03:02 PM

Yes thank you for the correction. :werd:

you mean

Once the two forensic experts show it was Trayvon it's a wrap for Zimmerman!!! Because that will show he lied and if you lie one time your credibility is shot!!!

its already a wrap for zimmerman

he caught in many lies and inconsistency's

correction for this below

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 03:13 PM

It doesn't matter to me what you think the definition is. And it's also funny that you'd pick a site that contradicts your orginal point and uses hatred of another race as the DEFINITION of RACISM. If you hate a whole ethnic group you're being racist, end of story. Don't try to justify racism. So it has to affect people huh? Well don't you think BEFORE it affects people it starts with HATE. Come on now.

LOL Of course it doesn't matter to you, that's why you don't know the real definition. There are people that hate races and never start anything, that's why I am telling you racism is an action and the definition showed you IT'S A SYSTEM!!! No that went right over your head. Do you even know how to read a dictionary? I'd pick a site that contradict my original point? hell are you talking about? We are having a debate, or dialogue or whatever you want to call it. I have been consistent in what I have said. You don't know the meaning of rasicm and you don't know the difference between hate and racism you think they are the same. :screwy

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 03:25 PM

Right there I see where you are coming from Prospero and if I didn't have knowledge of racism I would of said yes, the Nazi's killing of Ashkenazi Khazar Caucasian converted Jews was racism.

But..... Here's the killer, the so called Caucasian Khazar converted Jews in Isreal right now that were put there in 1948 are not the original Jews/Hebrew Isrealites. They are Caucasian Khazars they are not of the original bloodline of the original Jews. So if Hitler who is Caucasian did what he did against another Caucasian group, how can that be racism?

If I am African descent for example say I hate all African descent people and start killing my own people is that racism? How? When I am one of my own people? It's called SELF HATRED!!! Not racism. So Hitler who was a German Caucasian hating and killing Khazar Caucasian converted Jews was a Caucasian on Caucasian crime and not racism, I hope you understand where I am coming from. Simply you can't be part of a race and hate it and call it racism, it's only self hate that it becomes.

So following Jamesedward's definition of racism the persecution of the Jews by the Nazis was not racism?

I know where he is coming from. The notion that briefly held currency that it is or was impossible for a group who in a minority and have been historically discriminated against cannot be racist towards the majority group that oppresses them. But this is an politically expedient political position and certainly not really based on a n honest examination of the behaviour of groups.

Thus there have in recent times been any times when a group who might be seen to be oppressed are racist towards another group. in the Uk for instance the Afro-Caribbean community practice discriminations the Somali community. Many people from Trinidad hate Jamaicans. And in the Zimbabwe under Ronert Mugabe there has, for some years, been clear proof of discrimination again the former white ruling group. You might try to justify that as revenge but it is - nonetheless - racist.

Prospero

05-21-2012, 03:35 PM

Sorry James - your remarks about the jews etc are just plain bonkers. End of my brief conversation with you.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 03:46 PM

Right now this is what I will show what real racism is.

Racism by the original definition, not my definition is a movement of one race feeling superior to another race. That race enslaving the other race because of their superiority, the race that feels superior uses a system to make the other race feel inferior and effect that other race by depriving them of education, political equality, economic equality and social equality.

That's real racism that was put into action. Caucasians who are of another race showed racism to Africans who are of another race. To say racism is hating another race is not racism, because you can hate a race and not follow that system that I just gave the four points on.

African descent people in south Africa and in America is not on an equal ground with politics, the Govt is mostly ran by Caucasians and they make all the decisions.
Economics, Caucasians run this country's money system and African descent is not on an equal stage with it.
Education, definitely not equal we all know that, and definitely not equal on a social level.
When you hold another race from equality from your own race THAT'S RACISM!!!
To hate another race isn't, you're just making a conscious declaration without action of depriving a race or ethnic group EQUALITY!!!

Number 2 says a SYSTEM OF GOVT, but never tells you what that system really comprise of. DEPRIVING ANOTHER RACE FROM POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND EDUCATIONAL EQUALITY!!!
When you study law it will tell you this shit, that's why people will think racism is only hate and not even say what I said, so racism is not really hate it's the system used by another race on another race of people.

Example Maddygirl never once said a race that feels superior over another race, or a system, she went and used the 3 modern answer that evolved it's way into this definition and is mostly highly used and when you have numbers 1 & 2 definition basically almost never used when they are first before number 3.

I tell you people they use words of art that's what the legal system is about WORDS OF ART. If anyone has studied law knows what I am talking about.

RACISM
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination (no equality).
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 04:00 PM

That is why I said African descent people can't be racist in this country they can prejudge and hate, but never be actually a racist by it's real definition.
In order for that to happen we would have to run this system and be unjust to Caucasians on all four points I mentioned which is not happening!!! And don't give me that bullshit about Obama being the first black president, first off He's not black, he's mixed with an African father and Caucasian mother!!! So he's the first mixed president, when you have a president that have two African descent parents you will have the first African American President. I already dropped the science on being called black.

They have people thinking and saying all types of dumb shit, and when a person like me try to school people I get jumped on.
They got you think a brown complexion person is black when that's fucking false, they got you thinking a person with the complexion of the color of a banana is brown, wtf, a banana by color is YELLOW, its not fucking brown, see the words of art they use and people go for that shit. That's why I don't use color for people we are not fucking crayons in a box, we are different complexions, I never seen an orange person, green, purple, violet, etc. We are humans not things.

Funny when I say shit like slavery is still in the constitution motha fuckas laugh and think I am stupid and say slick dumb shit, but their asses don't know or never have read the whole dam constitution, and try to ridicule me on it, and don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

zulusierra

05-21-2012, 04:04 PM

If you think the racial makeup of U.S. prisons is purely a criminological analysis and doesn't factor in a racial bias from both the police and the court system, you my friend are the one with his 'head in the sand.'

The fact is that the U.S locks more people up than any other county in the world by far.

The drug and weapon laws were all written with minorities as the intended target. The way the system is set up, it is damn near impossible to ever get your life back and live up to your potential. There is just too much money in incarcerating people.

History will look back on us as barbarians.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 04:07 PM

Sorry James - your remarks about the jews etc are just plain bonkers. End of my brief conversation with you.

Ok, cool no problem, I expect that from people that are not learned on history, and linguistics and not on an academic level. Ending the conversion is expected especially when you can't back up why you have ended the convo.
Everything I am saying I CAN PROVE WITH DOCUMENTATION, EPIGRAPHIC EVIDENCE ALONG WITH PICTURES AND LINGUISTICS ON AN ACADEMIC LEVEL!!!

But since you couldn't talk about the so called Jews I won't go into it, but that's another history lesson on it's on. I already said the shit I know I couldn't possibly type here it would shut down HA.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 04:11 PM

The fact is that the U.S locks more people up than any other county in the world by far.

The drug and weapon laws were all written with minorities as the intended target. The way the system is set up, it is damn near impossible to ever get your life back and live up to your potential. There is just too much money in incarcerating people.

History will look back on us as barbarians.

WOOOOOWWWWWW!!!! I couldn't even argue with that shit if I could try and compel myself to. WOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!

What Giovanni is saying though these lockups is not base purely on criminal basis but on a racial bias.

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 04:17 PM

There's a practical definition of the word 'racism' that everyone knows and uses, and a more academic definition that sort of confuses the whole issue.

I know where jamesedwards is coming from, but personally I've moved away from the latter definition and the only distinction I will make is between general, individual racism and institutional racism.

That macro-definition of racism became vogue in the late 1980s, early 1990s.
However I personally know Black people I would describe as racist, even if they lack the wherewithal to affect the lives of others with their hatred.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 04:51 PM

Sorry James - your remarks about the jews etc are just plain bonkers. End of my brief conversation with you.

If you have the stomach (and/or time) to go back and read his posts you will find that he blames immigrants for the deterioration of black communites (I thought legal immigration was supposed to be a good thing). He also takes a cheap shot at Asian food as being nasty and unhealthy (this came out of left field BTW). He also insists that he can't be a racist because he's black (and he loves to argue semantics so watch out).

James is a poster child for black paranoia and insecurity. A veritable poster child. No mention of accoutability. No mention of personal responsibility. Just a laundry list of accusations against the establishment, immigrants, white people, the government, the courts....Most people in the black community probably feel this way so what can you do? Nothing. Nothing is going to change - he won't chagne my mind and I won't change his.

You can sum up my fellings thusly:

I find it loathsome and hypocritical that people in the black community insisnt on convicting Zimmerman of a hate crime when they refuse to hold themselves accountable to the same standards. The two USC grad students (and the white man in Sanford, FL who was beat almost to death with a hammer by two black youths a week after the Zimmerman case came to light) are examples. It is complete and utter hypocrisy.

http://www.dividedstates.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/trayvon-martin-flipping-bird-300x225.jpg

I believe (honestly) that many black people are fueled by anger and hatred (yes hatred) towards other races and this is why they are violent towards them. The mere fact that a black person hasn't been convicted of a hate crime (to my knowledge) is just proof of what a completey absurd law it is. It is nothing more than a political weapon put in place by liberal dick-suckers to chip away at the establishemnt. The law has nothing at all to do with justice, for if it did black people would ROUTINELY be convicted of hate crimes.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:00 PM

Let me drop some science on you who want it.

Right now in NYC and other inner cities, police are asked to fill a quota to help get young African descent youth, mainly males into the system even if it's temporary, and this really ends up to violate civil rights.

Example. Lets say 5 years are walking with their pants sagging at night and cops roll by, cops will ask the youth a dumb ass agitated question because they know how to mess with the Psyche of youth. A youth, all they got to do is say WHAT THE FUCK and the cops jump out of the car and frisk them for weapons and so forth. Youth don't know their rights and so rights are violated all the times in those cases. The cops want it to escalate in to some thing bigger. Then they take the youth down to be finger printed, and run them through the system, but they never go to jail. That's it, the job was done. I know you say "JAMES FUCK YOU TALKING ABOUT".

FINGER PRINTING!!! At a certain point the United States want everyone's prints in the system, this is one way they do it. You catch them at their youth and they just want their finger prints because they have in their minds these youths will commit a crime and we will already have their prints and can shut down having alias names.

Another way they do it which is super slick, VOLUNTARY FINGER PRINTING!!! At a bank or large super market wherever business flows in African descent areas, because I never seen this set up in Caucasian dominant areas, but we will use a bank for example.

At a bank a Caucasian woman, not men because the woman is emotionally attached to children naturally, they will use a woman. And yes this is racial because African descent people is not going to just do this with another African American, they already tested that out and it doesn't work.
She will stand outside the bank with a table and a bunch of free stuffed toys that children love. A parent with the child is the primary target but they go after teenagers and adults also if they think they can get them. and I will tell you a funny story with me how I found out.
So an African man or woman with their young child from 3 on up to 7 comes to the bank and when they come the woman will wave the stuffed animal toy, so what you think the first thing will happen? The child reaches, BAMMMMMMMMM GOTCHA!!!

So the woman says "THIS IS A FREE TOY FOR THE CHILD AND YOU CAN HAVE YOUR FINGER PRINTS DONE ALSO TO HELP PROTECT YOUR CHILD AGAINST PREDATORS AND CHILD MOLESTERS ETC BULLSHIT", they will run on you. Not thinking consciously, the parent is moved on the emotions of the child takes their babies and voluntary gives these people their finger prints, and now you're child is in the dam system VOLUNTARILY!!! If some thing were to happen to your child in like 18 years with law enforcement or anything they will be able to tell you they have your child prints and you will sit there like "HOW IN THE FUCK ", think back to when your child was 4 and you volunteered their finger prints.
Then they will ask the parent do they want it also, some will say yes and some will say no, but their target was the child and they did their job.

Now here is the funny story with me. I am going into the bank, as I approach, I am seeing the lady roll the child fingers in print like a cop would do a suspect. So she gives the child the stuff toy, and I am observing this but I didn't catch on. So I go back to the same bank the next day and who do I see, the same dame woman doing the same thing now she have two African descent women with their children doing this finger printing shit. So I walk a little slower and watching it go down and the children giggling and the parents all hyped they getting some thing for free for the children. so I just stood there in the corner watching playing with my cell like I am making a call. So another African Descent woman comes then a Hispanic woman comes and she gets them, she is catching them like white on rice, now she has a line, you would think this woman was a cop finger printing people. So I am baffled about what the hell is going on. So I go in the bank handle my business but now I am conscious about what is going on, being I worked in law I go home and start calling my peeps about finger printing. So I talk to about 4 attorneys and I ask them is it against the law to take people's finger prints and they all said the same thing "NOT IF IT'S VOLUNTARY". BAMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

That's how she was getting them voluntary. Because a person can not take your finger prints that's like taking your ATM card without your permission, if you give them permission then you just gave your shit over to the system willingly. So I got to the back I think 2 days in a row the woman wasn't there. So I go on a Saturday with out thinking about her and guess who was out there, FINGER PRINT LADY lol that's what I called her. She had a couple of people, smiling and all bubbly and shit, and she had the audacity to ask MUUUUUUUUUUUWAH!!!LOL Why did she do that shit. After all the research I did on it and everything. So I told her I would be out, because the bank close early on Sat and I didn't wanna get caught out there, so when I came out she had a crack line lol and I just stood there. At this point I was getting angry because she was doing a job and she might and might not know what she is doing.

So she got to me and there were two mothers behind me with their children that came out the bank because she wanted to get them. So I was fucking with her and said "OH SO YOU WANT ME TO GIVE YOU MY FINGER PRINTS, WHY "? She said "IT'S FOR YOUR PROTECTION AND PRECAUTIONS OF ANYTHING THAT MAY HAPPEN TO YOU". See I peeped her shit she tell the parents some thing totally different than what she tell grown ups, about child molesters, missing children yada yada bullshit.

So I asked in a humorous way because I am now stalling on purpose so the women behind me won't sign up. so I asked "DON'T I GET A STUFFY WUFFY TOO?" the women laughed and she laughed, then she said "NO THOSE ARE FOR THE CHILDREN BUT IF YOU LIKE YOU CAN SIGN UP FOR A 10 DOLLAR GIFT CERTIFICATE FOR WALMART" I think it was Walmart, not sure, but anyway she said that, and I made another joke laughing "HEY JUST 10 DOLLARS CAN I GET 2 WHAT AM I GOING TO BUY IN WALMART FOR 10 DOLLARS?" so we laughed again. Then I said "SO YOU WANT ME TO JUST SIGN AND HAND YOU OVER MY FINGER PRINTS VOLUNTARILY RIGHT"? She had this look on her face like she was about to be busted, she don't want you to ask any questions to the finger printing so now I know that she knows what she is doing. I told her that by taking my finger prints they could be used for future processing and that it's against the law for someone to have my finger prints but it's not if a person volunteers their finger prints and I didn't know her and I couldn't trust her with my prints just like I wouldn't trust her with my social security numbers. I asked her "HAVE YOU DONE THIS ON YOURSELF?...OH OF COURSE YOU HAVE BECAUSE IN ORDER TO DO THIS JOB YOU HAVE TO BE FINGER PRINTED IN CASE SOME THING GOES WRONG". She was not smiling and the women behind me were attentive, and I told her, "YOU'RE IN AN African american community getting free prints where all these people will be in the police system and they have committed no crime, and I would like your name and I am going to report this to the borough president about this matter because it's not right". I put her ass on the spot, because if she didn't want to give me her name then it was definitely a super scam, she she nervously gave me her name and I went inside the bank and talked to the manager, to tell them this was wrong, the African descent manager even agreed.
So I told the African descent women that were there don't sign up and put your child through that and it's not right and this can be banned. So they didn't do it, she still tried and I stood outside telling parents not to do it for about 30 minutes and the manager came out. She told she knew what I was doing and I should do what I said, so I did and got to the borough president and got that shit shut down. Now she's not out there, but I know there are more out there and it's a shame that my people have to be racially profile for future purposes.

Stavros

05-21-2012, 05:08 PM

Race is a concept that was developed in order to categorise people in order to rank them in terms of quality, so there are no prizes for guessing who gets top spot and what the people at the other end of the scale look like. Ivan Hannaford has looked at the rich history of this concept, from a time when it did not exist, from a time when it meant something different from what it is today, and in all cases, something made up by humans with the assumption of 'scientific' rigour.

Race as 'science' was discredited as a consequence of its application in the Third Reich and for the obvious reasons. Race continues to be applied with dismal results, as anyone familiar with the claims of the controversial psychiatrist, HK Eysenck will know, where intelligence is claimed to be determined by race, which enables certain people to be ranked as Highly Intelligent, and others as being not very intelligent, and I don't need to say more about it.

Racism has become a convenient tag for people too lazy to think through the concept and realise that any so-called 'system' that classifies human beings according to the shape of their eyes, the width of their lips, the colour of their skin, the fruit of their brains, or whatever else is claimed, is an invitation to discrimination, which is the key agency at work and the most insidious if fatally human reaction that societies have to people they class as 'outsiders'.

Read Frank Snowden's wonderful history Naples in the Time of Cholera, and there is a chapter on cholera in Puglia, where at one time it was known as lo zingaro -'the gypsy' because Italians believed diseases were imported from outside their towns by wandering Gypsies -with all the ramifications for discrimination and violence that entails.

The argument that 'most Jews' of the modern world are descended from the Khazar who were converted to Judaism was discussed in Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe. The argument is frankly irrelevent to the Jewish experience in the modern world. The cardinal point is that anyone can be a Jew, by conversion, many have become so; others have become Jews through marriage, while Jews have, like many other people, migrated across the globe so that there are Latin Jews in South America, Chinese Jews in China, and Black Jews in Africa. Many Jews remained in the 'Holy Land' after Jerusalem ws destroyed by the Romans, many migrated to other parts of the Middle East and still live there today (for example, in Iran). Those who isolate Jews as if there was some inherent flaw in the narrative of their origins and development usually have a motive for highlighting it to prevent Jews from, say, occupying Palestinian territory. The same argument that says Black people do not 'belong' here, wherever here is; the same argument that says 'Muslims' do not belong in Britain.

The Jewish claim on Palestinian territory is political, not religious; the discrimination against Black people in the USA was, and has been political, not racial; the discirmination against the Roma in Italy is political, not racial; the discrimination against the Muslims in Bosnia by 'Orthodox' Serbs was political, not racial.

Let us put this tired, meaningless concept to bed and let it sleep forever, with the fishes.

Race: The History of an Idea in the West Woodrow Wilson Centre Press: Amazon.co.uk: Ivan Hannaford: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51602j43j5L.@@AMEPARAM@@51602j43j5L (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-History-Woodrow-Wilson-Centre/dp/0801852234/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337612851&sr=8-2)

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:12 PM

You are a lunatic!!! I did not blame immigrants for the destruction of African descent communities. That's another tactic that is used on a person like me that was used on Malcolm X, Martin L. King, Medgar Edvers, Marcus Garvey and the likes, CALLING US INSANE, PARANOID etc. I said the destruction of African descent communities came when Martin L. King signed that civil rights agreement with Linden B. Johnson and we lost African descent own businesses, family strength deteriorated etc. If you're going to quote me quote me right!!!

I said my community lack our own businesses and the dollar is passed through only once while other communities their dollar goes through it at least 4 times. In the African american community when we get money it leaves right out of our hands and back into someone else hands. I also said you won't see African descent employees in Chinese or Korean restaurants yet they are over flowed in our community taking our money, why can't we have our own stores in our own community everyone else is doing it? and I broke it down there is racism being practice here on conjunction of it. That's what I said, you want to GENERALIZED it and say I said ALL IMMIGRANTS when I told you before I am not talking about all immigrants and I was giving you an example of the Chinese shops in my hood oppose to other hoods. Now he doesn't have to go back and read but if he was to he would see that you're a dam liar!!! and I even said Arabs hire African descent people, Italians, Hispanics etc, so how the fuck can you sit here and say IMMIGRANTS as a general?

You are so crazy you go and throw up a pic of Trayvon putting up a middle finger, so are you saying just because he did that he should be dead ? how many times have you thrown up your middle finger at some one? Go on face book or twitter and you will see thousands of teens doing it from Asian to Caucasian to African descent people, do they deserve to die? Get the hell outta here.

You are fucking insane!!!

If you have the stomach (and/or time) to go back and read his posts you will find that he blames immigrants for the deterioration of black communites (I thought legal immigration was supposed to be a good thing). He also takes a cheap shot at Asian food as being nasty and unhealthy (this came out of left field BTW). He also insists that he can't be a racist because he's black (and he loves to argue semantics so watch out).

James is a poster child for black paranoia and insecurity. A veritable poster child. No mention of accoutability. No mention of personal responsibility. Just a laundry list of accusations against the establishment, immigrants, white people, the government, the courts....Most people in the black community probably feel this way so what can you do? Nothing. Nothing is going to change - he won't chagne my mind and I won't change his.

You can sum up my fellings thusly:

I find it loathsome and hypocritical that people in the black community insisnt on convicting Zimmerman of a hate crime when they refuse to hold themselves accountable to the same standards. The two USC grad students (and the white man in Sanford, FL who was beat almost to death with a hammer by two black youths a week after the Zimmerman case came to light) are examples. It is complete and utter hypocrisy.

http://www.dividedstates.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/trayvon-martin-flipping-bird-300x225.jpg

I believe (honestly) that many black people are fueled by anger and hatred (yes hatred) towards other races and this is why they are violent towards them. The mere fact that a black person hasn't been convicted of a hate crime (to my knowledge) is just proof of what a completey absurd law it is. It is nothing more than a political weapon put in place by liberal dick-suckers to chip away at the establishemnt. The law has nothing at all to do with justice, for if it did black people would ROUTINELY be convicted of hate crimes.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:26 PM

Hummmm let me take a guess who takes the top spot in America, that would be Caucasians right? LOL

The whole Khazar convo, can be proven and also Hebrew Israelite Jew thingy also. I could really go into how the so called Jews run the media and of course they are going to go against the where they really come from, but that will be over soon because Khazar is being dug up, and the original Jews are from Africa, the Beni Israel and Falasha Jews, and Jew is a new term the original term is Hebrew Israelite. See when they start changing names people are confused on what's real. Not me and other scholars and academics on a scholastic level. To be a Hebrew is a bloodline is not a religion. You can't convert to a bloodline, you can't have A group people and then B Group people try to say they are from the A Group people's bloodline. They are converted not the original Jews, and again the Letter J don't even exist in the Hebrew alphabet. But I would love to debate people in public about this, but I won't go on I think I typed enough, but nope I will not agree because of the absolute factual documents, pictures, and books and direct sources I have in my possession on the matter. Funny thing is how did the Caucasian Ashkenazi Converted Jew get control of Israel? They were never there, they were located in Spain and was kicked out, Germany and Poland. Proof is look at the last names of some of these people, example Ethal Rosenberg? People think that's a Jewish name, or Stein etc, those are not Jewish names their origin are from Germany or Poland this is fact!!! A real Hebrew Israelite Jew name would be like Yeshu'a, or Y'sreal, it's not Israel, or Abesaloma etc. smh

Race is a concept that was developed in order to categorise people in order to rank them in terms of quality, so there are no prizes for guessing who gets top spot and what the people at the other end of the scale look like. Ivan Hannaford has looked at the rich history of this concept, from a time when it did not exist, from a time when it meant something different from what it is today, and in all cases, something made up by humans with the assumption of 'scientific' rigour.

Race as 'science' was discredited as a consequence of its application in the Third Reich and for the obvious reasons. Race continues to be applied with dismal results, as anyone familiar with the claims of the controversial psychiatrist, HK Eysenck will know, where intelligence is claimed to be determined by race, which enables certain people to be ranked as Highly Intelligent, and others as being not very intelligent, and I don't need to say more about it.

Racism has become a convenient tag for people too lazy to think through the concept and realise that any so-called 'system' that classifies human beings according to the shape of their eyes, the width of their lips, the colour of their skin, the fruit of their brains, or whatever else is claimed, is an invitation to discrimination, which is the key agency at work and the most insidious if fatally human reaction that societies have to people they class as 'outsiders'.

Read Frank Snowden's wonderful history Naples in the Time of Cholera, and there is a chapter on cholera in Puglia, where at one time it was known as lo zingaro -'the gypsy' because Italians believed diseases were imported from outside their towns by wandering Gypsies -with all the ramifications for discrimination and violence that entails.

The argument that 'most Jews' of the modern world are descended from the Khazar who were converted to Judaism was discussed in Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe. The argument is frankly irrelevent to the Jewish experience in the modern world. The cardinal point is that anyone can be a Jew, by conversion, many have become so; others have become Jews through marriage, while Jews have, like many other people, migrated across the globe so that there are Latin Jews in South America, Chinese Jews in China, and Black Jews in Africa. Many Jews remained in the 'Holy Land' after Jerusalem ws destroyed by the Romans, many migrated to other parts of the Middle East and still live there today (for example, in Iran). Those who isolate Jews as if there was some inherent flaw in the narrative of their origins and development usually have a motive for highlighting it to prevent Jews from, say, occupying Palestinian territory. The same argument that says Black people do not 'belong' here, wherever here is; the same argument that says 'Muslims' do not belong in Britain.

The Jewish claim on Palestinian territory is political, not religious; the discrimination against Black people in the USA was, and has been political, not racial; the discirmination against the Roma in Italy is political, not racial; the discrimination against the Muslims in Bosnia by 'Orthodox' Serbs was political, not racial.

Let us put this tired, meaningless concept to bed and let it sleep forever, with the fishes.

Race: The History of an Idea in the West Woodrow Wilson Centre Press: Amazon.co.uk: Ivan Hannaford: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-History-Woodrow-Wilson-Centre/dp/0801852234/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337612851&sr=8-2)

Prospero

05-21-2012, 05:33 PM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 05:42 PM

"I could really go into how the so called Jews run the media..."

Ho hum.... i get the picture james.

That Jewish guy Rupert Murdoch for instance.... or the people that own Gannett? or the Hearst Corporation?

You mean the so called Jewish guy Rupert Murdoch? If you get the picture no need to ask me a question now is it? hmmmm

Stavros

05-21-2012, 05:46 PM

The whole Khazar convo, can be proven and also Hebrew Israelite Jew thingy also. I could really go into how the so called Jews run the media and of course they are going to go against the where they really come from, but that will be over soon because Khazar is being dug up, and the original Jews are from Africa, the Beni Israel and Falasha Jews, and Jew is a new term the original term is Hebrew Israelite. See when they start changing names people are confused on what's real. Not me and other scholars and academics on a scholastic level. To be a Hebrew is a bloodline is not a religion. You can't convert to a bloodline, you can't have A group people and then B Group people try to say they are from the A Group people's bloodline. They are converted not the original Jews, and again the Letter J don't even exist in the Hebrew alphabet. But I would love to debate people in public about this, but I won't go on I think I typed enough, but nope I will not agree because of the absolute factual documents, pictures, and books and direct sources I have in my possession on the matter. Funny thing is how did the Caucasian Ashkenazi Converted Jew get control of Israel? They were never there, they were located in Spain and was kicked out, Germany and Poland. Proof is look at the last names of some of these people, example Ethal Rosenberg? People think that's a Jewish name, or Stein etc, those are not Jewish names their origin are from Germany or Poland this is fact!!! A real Hebrew Israelite Jew name would be like Yeshu'a, or Y'sreal, it's not Israel, or Abesaloma etc. smh

What hysterical nonsense is this? Do some research by all means and tell me -what was Jewish about Walt Disney? -nothing. Rupert Murdoch? No. Who runs the media in China and India, the Jews? No again. Who ran the media in the USSR, the Jews? No. Who owns the Guardian newspaper group in the UK, the Jews? No. The Daily Telegraph? The Jews? No. The BBC -run by Jews? No. I could go on and on, but what's the point? But I will concede on the Jewish Chronicle.

Names change, its not such a big deal -how many Americans arrived in Ellis Island called Szcyzikolowo and became Smith or Schick? Or arrived as Vito Andolini and became Vito Corleone? Japan as we know it is Nippon to them; Finland is Suomi and so on. And, research is also about analysis, looking things up and then weighing their value, one idea against another, one set of evidence against another-you can find all sorts of tripe in print and on the web that makes bold claims -that God created the Black tribe of the Shabazz 60,000 years ago, and so on. Ultimately its the quality of your judgement that matters, and on this issue, I cannot agree with your conclusions, so far.

Prospero

05-21-2012, 05:48 PM

Oh I see. You think Murdoch is jewish. What about Walt Disney?

I suggest you'd enjoy a book that spills the beans on the jewish conspiracy that plans to take over the world. The Protocols Of The Elders of Zion. That'd be right up your street. You know of course that Jews murder Christian children to mix their blood in the Matzoh for passover, don't you.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:26 PM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:33 PM

Let me ask you WHO BROUGHT UP THE NAME RUPERT MORDOCH? Was it me? Who called Rupert Murdoch a Jew? It wasn't me, it was YOU!!! I never brought his name up!!! But being you did.........

QUOTE:
"That Jewish guy Rupert Murdoch for instance.... "

Oh I see. You think Murdoch is jewish. What about Walt Disney?

I suggest you'd enjoy a book that spills the beans on the jewish conspiracy that plans to take over the world. The Protocols Of The Elders of Zion. That'd be right up your street. You know of course that Jews murder Christian children to mix their blood in the Matzoh for passover, don't you.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 06:37 PM

RUPERT MURDOCH: SO YOU TELL US WHO RUPERT MURDOCH IS PROS!!!

Murdoch's Deeply Hidden Jewish Roots -- A Biography

By Christopher Bollyn – American Free Press

Christopher Bollyn is an investigative journalist who has written extensively on the events of September 11, 2001 in the Washington-based American Free Press. He has researched different aspects of the 9/11 attacks and uncovered facts and evidence that challenge the official version of events. tried to smear Bollyn as an “anti-Semite” in order to discredit him and diminish the significance of his work. At the helm of both organizations, the ADL and Fox News, is an Australian-born Zionist named Keith Rupert Murdoch.

Murdoch's Jewish Roots

Murdoch “became an American citizen for business reasons,” according to Richard H. Curtiss, editor of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. Keith Rupert was born in Melbourne, Australia, on March 11, 1931. “Rupert’s father, Sir Keith Murdoch, was a newspaper publisher, and his mother an Orthodox Jew,” Curtiss wrote, “although Murdoch never offers that information in his biographies.”

Murdoch’s father married Elisabeth Joy Greene, daughter of Rupert Greene in 1928. They had one son, Keith Rupert and three daughters. Later in life, Keith Rupert chose to use Rupert, the first name of his Jewish maternal grandfather.

The young Keith Rupert was educated at Australia’s fashionable Geelong private school, and went on to the elitist and aristocratic Oxford University in England, according to Candour (UK) magazine.

“Rupert’s father Sir Keith Murdoch attained his prominent position in Australian society through a fortuitous marriage to the daughter of a wealthy Jewish family, née Elisabeth Joy Greene. Through his wife’s connections, Keith Murdoch was subsequently promoted from reporter to chairman of the British-owned newspaper where he worked. There was enough money to buy himself a knighthood of the British realm, two newspapers in Adelaide, South Australia, and a radio station in a faraway mining town,” Candour wrote in 1984. “For some reason, Murdoch has always tried to hide the fact that his pious mother brought him up as a Jew.”

While Murdoch may have “tried to hide” his Jewish roots, he has been quite forthright about his support for extreme right-wing Zionists, such as Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon.

Netanyahu, who wrote a book entitled The War on Terror: How the West Can Win in 1986, is a frequent commentator on Murdoch’s Fox News.

Murdoch’s support for Zionism extremists is well known and a matter of record. As New York Governor George Pataki said, “There is no newspaper in the U.S. more supportive of Israel than the [Murdoch’s] New York Post.”

It is through a network of Zionist organizations, in which Murdoch plays a central role, that Murdoch is connected to the individuals who arranged the privatization – and obtained control of the World Trade Center – shortly before its destruction.

These key individuals are: Larry Silverstein and the former Israeli commando Frank Lowy, the lease holders of dubious repute who gained control of the WTC property six weeks before 9/11, and Port Authority Chairman Lewis M. Eisenberg, who authorized the transfer of the leases.

Murdoch belongs to, and has been honored by, a number of leading Zionist organizations in which Silverstein, Lowy, and Eisenberg all hold senior positions. These organizations include the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), the United Jewish Appeal (UJA), and the New York-based Museum of Jewish Heritage - A Living Memorial to the Holocaust.

Fifty days before 9/11, Silverstein Properties and Lowy’s Westfield America secured 99-year leases on the WTC. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey turned control of the World Trade Center over to the private hands of Silverstein and Lowy on July 24, 2001.

Silverstein and Lowy then took control of the 10.6 million-square-foot complex, which included the twin towers office buildings and two nine-story office buildings. Silverstein and the former Israeli commando Lowy then controlled all access to the World Trade Center.

Lowy leased the shopping concourse called the Mall at the World Trade Center, which comprised about 427,000 square feet of retail space.

“Six weeks before the WTC towers were destroyed, the Port Authority completed the process of leasing them for 99 years to Larry Silverstein, the developer who had built 7 World Trade Center [which mysteriously self-demolished at 5:25 p.m. on 9/11].

“Simultaneously, the retail space underneath the complex was leased to Westfield America, the US division of an Australian company that is one of the world’s largest operators of shopping malls.” Paul Goldberger wrote in New Yorker, May 20, 2002.

“Silverstein and Westfield were given the right to rebuild the structures if they were destroyed, and Westfield has the right to expand the retail space by 30 percent,” Goldberger wrote.

Silverstein is suing for some $7.2 billion in insurance money for the loss of the destroyed World Trade Center – and his expected earnings – for property he had leased with a down payment of $100 million – of borrowed funds.

Murdoch the Zionist

“Murdoch is a close friend of Ariel Sharon,” Sam Kiley, The Times (UK) veteran journalist on the Middle East wrote about the man who took over the once famous British paper. Kiley said Murdoch’s friendship with the Israeli prime minister had caused senior staff at the paper to rewrite important copy.

“Murdoch’s executives were so afraid of irritating him that, when I pulled off a little scoop of tracking down and photographing the unit in the Israeli army which killed Mohammed al-Durrah, the 12-year-old boy whose death was captured on film and became the iconic image of the conflict, I was asked to file the piece ‘without mentioning the dead kid.’” Kiley wrote. “After that conversation, I was left wordless, so I quit.”

Sharon and Murdoch are old friends. On Oct. 15, 1982, a month after the massacres of thousands of Palestinian refugees in the Sabra and Shatila camps of Beirut, war crimes which occurred under Sharon’s direct command, the Israeli defense minister held meetings with Rupert Murdoch and others, reportedly in order to advance his “West Bank real estate grab.”

The visit with Sharon included a trip for Murdoch and his editors from New York and London that “took them on a bird’s-eye tour of Israel aboard a helicopter gunship, flying over the Golan Heights, West Bank and settlements.”

“I have always believed in the future of Israel and the goals of the international Jewish community,” Murdoch said at a spring fund-raiser for the Museum of Jewish Heritage - A Living Memorial to the Holocaust on April 29, 2001.

From the beginning, News Corp., his global media company, “has been supportive of the Jewish national cause,” Murdoch said.

Larry Silverstein, who had not yet acquired the lease on the World Trade Center, attended the fund-raiser with Murdoch and reportedly said about museum chairman Robert Morgenthau’s plans to expand the museum: “I’ll support you…as long as you keep it under 110 stories.”

Murdoch and the ADL

“Henry Kissinger, Rupert Murdoch and Mortimer Zuckerman are on the [ADL] dinner committee,” according to a recent New York Times report on the ADL’s recent fund-raiser in which the controversial Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi received the ADL’s Distinguished Statesman Award.

Silverstein and Eisenberg have both held senior leadership positions with the United Jewish Appeal (UJA), a billion dollar Zionist “charity” organization, to which Murdoch and Lowy generously contribute. In 1997, Henry Kissinger presented Murdoch with the UJA’s award for “Humanitarian of the Year.”

Silverstein is a former chairman of UJA. This organization raises hundreds of millions of dollars every year for a network of Zionist agencies in the United States and Israel. Eisenberg, who was instrumental in obtaining the lease for Silverstein, is on the Planning Board of UJA.

Eisenberg in his role with the Port Authority was the key person who negotiated the 99-year leases for Silverstein and Frank Lowy’s Westfield America, who were in fact the low-bidders for the lease on the 110-story towers and the retail mall.

Murdoch and the Czechoslovakian-born Israeli commando Frank Lowy, a former fighter in Israel’s Golani Brigade, who emigrated to Australia in the 1950s, have had a long friendship, which Murdoch recounted during an American Australian Association fund-raising dinner in honor of Frank’s son, Peter S. Lowy, in New York on November 20, 2002. Larry Silverstein and his wife also attended the American Australian event.

Some reporters refer to the American Australian Association, whose membership includes James Wolfensohn, the president of the World Bank, who raised cash for Rupert Murdoch when he first expanded into the United States, as “the kangaroo mafia.”

“Frank was a brave and determined fighter,” Rafi Kocer, Lowy’s former commander, said. Lowy has donated some $350,000 to build a memorial museum in Israel for his former brigade.

Today, Lowy and his three sons control Westfield Corporation, one of the largest operators of shopping centers in the United States – and the world.

maddygirl

05-21-2012, 06:38 PM

Let me ask you WHO BROUGHT UP THE NAME RUPERT MORDOCH? Was it me? Who called Rupert Murdoch a Jew? It wasn't me, it was YOU!!! I never brought his name up!!! But being you did.........

QUOTE:
"That Jewish guy Rupert Murdoch for instance.... "
Well the only thing I've gathered from your posts is you think black people should be allowed to be racist but call it "hate", but if any other race acts that way it's racist? Why don't we start with stopping hating of other races altogether. It sounds like you just want an excuse to be racist which is bullshit.

Prospero

05-21-2012, 07:02 PM

James if you want to believe insane books by lunatics that is your prerogative. if you want to see the US as run by a Jewish conspiracy that is also your right. You're also a fool.

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 07:12 PM

James, the apparent lie starts with taking at face value that Murdoch's mother was an orthodox jew. There is no official record that supports this....AT ALL.

This jewish conspiracy stuff is very insidious propaganda that you really have to make an effort to filter because oftentimes it's presented in a very benign and matter-of-fact way.

Every time I hear about a 'jewish conspiracy', I have to research the truth on my own because for the most part, we're being fed lies.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:12 PM

Well the only thing I've gathered from your posts is you think black people should be allowed to be racist but call it "hate", but if any other race acts that way it's racist? Why don't we start with stopping hating of other races altogether. It sounds like you just want an excuse to be racist which is bullshit.

No, I explained myself quite clear. I said and will say it again, African descent people, I never said BLACK PEOPLE<< how many times do I have to say I don't use that term and how many times do I have to explain it's meaning is not for my people?
I said specifically that African descent people can not be racism by the original term of the definition not this johnny come late modern term equal to just hating a nation. I also said I can hate a race or group of people and I can prejudge a group or nation of people but I can not be racist.

Now let me explain again,in order to be racist you have to have a system set up to deprive that group or nation of people different from your own and the one who feels superior will say the other group or nation or race is inferior. If I say I hate all Hispanics that is just hate, I NEVER SAID I FEEL SUPERIOR OR I AM NOT DEPRIVING THEM UNDER A SYSTEM OF POLITICAL, ECONOMICAL, SOCIAL AND EDUCATION!!!

If a Hispanic said "I hate African americans" that is not racism, that Hispanic just hate African americans, as so as that Hispanic says "HISPANICS ARE BETTER THAN AFRICAN AMERICANS/DESCENT PEOPLE, and have a system made up to deprive African americans then it becomes racism.

That's what I said. So now you don't have to say I just mean this for my people.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:15 PM

Fair enough Giovanni, now let me ask you this, how do you go about finding this TRUTH? Please let me know.

James, the apparent lie starts with taking at face value that Murdoch's mother was an orthodox jew. There is no official record that supports this....AT ALL.

This jewish conspiracy stuff is very insidious propaganda that you really have to make an effort to filter because oftentimes it's presented in a very benign and matter-of-fact way.

Every time I hear about a 'jewish conspiracy', I have to research the truth on my own because for the most part, we're being fed lies.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:16 PM

James if you want to believe insane books by lunatics that is your prerogative. if you want to see the US as run by a Jewish conspiracy that is also your right. You're also a fool.

Ok, I'll be the fool.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:25 PM

I wonder if people really have studied? When some don't really know what they are talking about or in denial it becomes conspiracy. I respect what giovanni is saying because he presents what he is saying, but do I agree with him ? It depends if we know the same facts or not. some of you others I just say wow. Just telling me if I believe in conspiracy of Jewish theories is not proof, you just saying some thing anyone can do that.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:33 PM

Just one of Many of the top Dr.'s John Henrik Clarke, if you think different of what he says SHOW YOUR PROOF!!!

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbMvSdGloW0

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Vw4LtbyGM&feature=channel&list=UL

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8nu3kqcb30&feature=channel&list=UL

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8G9f0uU3s&feature=channel&list=UL

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 07:40 PM

Dr. Ben Jochannan vs Rabbi Auther Seltzer

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24KYINdqG-A&feature=related

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 08:21 PM

Dude called me a fool, but I say YES I AM A FOOL, so it should be no problem with you providing evidence of what I am saying to crush me as a fool. Saying it's conspiracy proves nothing, so provide me as a fool with evidence, the Caucasian Khazar Ashkenazi converted so called Jews are Actually Hebrew Israelites!!! They were never Jews, again where are some of you getting your info? From Caucasian people? From academic scholastic teachings?

You have the Torah which is the faith of the Hebrew Israelites, the original Israelites were and still is dark!!! They were never called Jews, this is the reason of changing names, the letter "J" didn't come into existence of the English language until 1565.

Wikipedia states:
he Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎‎ ISO 259-3 Yhudim Israeli pronunciation [jehuˈdim]), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[2][3][4] Converts to Judaism, whose status(there's that dam word again) as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.

ORIGIN OF JEWS
According to their tradition, the Jewish people originated from the Israelites of the Southern Levant, who had several independent states before being overtaken first by the Assyrian and Babylonian Empires and later the Roman Empire.....

WHERE AND WHAT'S THE LEVANT?
http://img1.imagehousing.com/59/0e47e75b8b284d8aa08f7bab0a9c3d69.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1019606)

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 08:30 PM

If you want to call me a fool and conspiracy artist, who can refute then Dr. John Henrike Clarke, or Dr. Ben ? Like I said I will act like the fool but if you have no dam evidence to back up your claim then this fool has won!!! that's not a good look.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 08:37 PM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 09:55 PM

What's really funny to me is that there some posters on here who actually think that James is enlightened (which make laugh because i can see Giovanni quitely slipping out the back door).

Don't worry James. Take your meds. The mother ship will arrive shortly to collect you....

Hold up, wait a minute, so if someone thinks I am capable to talk about the subject in hand you disrespect them too?

IN your comedic attempt to use the biggest picture you could find and waste page space with not a single drop of evidence to refute anything I said and the videos, looks like the shit got quiet after that. Refute Dr. Henrike, refute Dr. Ben if you dare.

Now why is it that you must diss Giovanna by saying he's slipping out the back door? See the things I say I can back them up, only thing you have done is said the funny thing is and put up a picture. Prove what I said is wrong IF YOU CAN!!! Just because Giovanna may disagree with me I can't say he's not intelligent because I have seen him talk and he makes a lot of sense. But when he says something that I don't agree with I can't turn around and say he's a nut case, no, he's still intelligent it's just we disagree on some thing.
Now if he says some thing and I come back with an answer and he doesn't come back does that make him less man? No!!!
So stop trying to start bullshit, we are having a great convo here, things like this need to be talked about and addressed because far to long have we been taught false history and it's time to wake up and show what's false
Now you can joke about me not taking my meds but I tell you this as I was called eariler A FOOL, I am better a fool on my worse than you are on your so called sane day.

If you're going to call me a name at least have some historical fact and then call me a name. You look foolish and stupid without any of that.

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 10:04 PM

Funny thing is when the racial shit started happening people started talking about Zimmerman is not white he's Hispanic, when I saw that I was baffled, like hell yall talking about. He's not all Hispanic he's a dam mixed person, Caucasian and Hispanic. In reality you can't call him all Hispanic or All Caucasian. His mother is AFro Peruvian and his father is Caucasian, do some research on the matter. Someone had the never to say Zimmerman is a Jewish name. LOL like wtf Zimmerman is not a Jewish name because I have studied that langauge and Hebrew and Aramaic is the languages and there would be no type of name like Zimmerman in that language, Zimmerman would have it's roots from German or Polish comings. So here it is as I have claimed go back and read my post the word has NOTHING TO DO WITH HEBREW/JEWISH NAMES!!!! Now see if I am on my meds with that. And we know dam well the Germans aren't Jews!!!

Zimmerman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerman)
ZIMMERMAN
Zimmerman derives from the German last name Zimmermann which means carpenter. Within the United States, it is ranked as the 441st-most common surname.[1]
Zimmerman is often confused with Zimmermann. The loss or addition of the double "n" may imply many things. This may include racial, ethnic, religious or other cultural variations.[2]Above all, the final "n" was seen as redundant in new countries of immigration where English was spoken. As a part of routine, German names were often Anglicized or simplified by immigration officials upon entry into the United States

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 10:19 PM

IN your comedic attempt to use the biggest picture you could find and waste page space with not a single drop of evidence to refute anything I said and the videos, looks like the shit got quiet after that. Refute Dr. Henrike, refute Dr. Ben if you dare.

I didn't read a single word of it, lol. The last post I read from you (besides this one) was about 10 pages ago.... You're clearly a nutter....

Now why is it that you must diss Giovanna by saying he's slipping out the back door?

Because even he knows that you're a nutter. He's just being polite.

So stop trying to start bullshit, we are having a great convo here, things like this need to be talked about and addressed because far to long have we been taught false history and it's time to wake up and show what's false

We're not having great conversation at all. It's largely (you) rambling on incessantly due to the fact that you are unable to concentrate your thoughts into a few cohesive paragraphs. Contrary to what you might think, nobody is reading any of your shit so you can probably dial it back a few hundred words per post.

hard4janira

05-21-2012, 10:27 PM

....Someone had the never to say Zimmerman is a Jewish name. LOL like wtf Zimmerman is not a Jewish name because I have studied that langauge and Hebrew and Aramaic is the languages and there would be no type of name like Zimmerman in that language, Zimmerman would have it's roots from German or Polish comings. So here it is as I have claimed go back and read my post the word has NOTHING TO DO WITH HEBREW/JEWISH NAMES!!!! Now see if I am on my meds with that. And we know dam well the Germans aren't Jews!!!

Oh this is getting rich.... :dancing: James, are you considered the 'wise one' amongst your peeps?

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 11:05 PM

We're not having great conversation at all. It's largely (you) rambling on incessantly due to the fact that you are unable to concentrate your thoughts into a few cohesive paragraphs.

Ok, have a great day, bye.

InHouston

05-21-2012, 11:15 PM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 11:39 PM

Native Africans and the Spanish brought slavery to the American continent. We inherited this system, and later abolished it. Learn your history.

Wow!! You said I should learn my history huh? So you said African Natives and the Spanish brought slavery to the American continent? LOL

Who the hell is "WE" inherited this system? What the hell are you talking about?

So you left out the Portuguese, Dutch, England. French etc. Now if you say only those two brought slavery over to the Americas, what's your source citations? Where is this info? where did you get this from? Further more you repost what I said about the Levant, that convo had nothing to do with slavery LOL

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 11:41 PM

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 11:43 PM

If we are going to share knowledge lets do so, I am down for a good dialogue or debate.

InHouston

05-21-2012, 11:46 PM

All these elaborate arguments are cute. I’ve grown and lived in the black community, and it’s a load of shit.

If black people in America would quit acting like the complete fucking pricks they are, they wouldn't get profiled the way they do. All you need do is look at their art, their music, the shit they spray paint and tag on the properties of others. NO FUCKING RESPECT … AT ALL!

Not long ago I was in McDonald's and some black guy behind me was bee bopping around alone rapping "Yeah! We can do it with the mutha fuckin lights on! There's gonna be a mutha fucking blood bath up in here!" and struck some stupid Kung Fu stance wanting to fight other customers, and one by one all the customers (and me) started heading for the front door. Another day some black guy slipped and fell down and the cashier asked, "Are you okay?" He said, "Fuck you bitch! I just slipped on yo got damned flo! I want some got-damned munnay", and one by one all the customers headed for the front door. Thirty minutes later the police were hauling his stupid ass off to jail for Disorderly Conduct.

Another day at the store, some black thug was threatening the owner, from Basra Iraq who lived under Saddam Hussein, to jump over the counter and whip his ass, because the store didn’t carry his strawberry-peanut covered ice cream cones his welfare-ass was looking for. The owner said, “We don’t have it! Okay? Quick smoking that fucking shit you’re on and grow up”, and one by one all the customers, and me, started heading out the front door.

Fuck Treyvon. If your people would quit acting like complete imbeciles, and stop jumping on people every time you feel like you don’t get “da respect” you deserve, which you don’t give anyone around you, this would have never happened. You people walk around, acting like complete assholes, lipping off to people, think the world owes you something which is why your people walk around saying “I gotz to get minez!” Bullshit!

Just this morning I was watching my security cameras, and some black guy comes bee-bopping down the street, alone, and rapping out loud “God save me! Save me from these mutha fuckas! I’m gonna killa a mutha fucka! Yeah!”

Fucking white trash people in the trailer parks don’t even act as stupid as your people do. And all you black people know it. You just won’t admit it. You never will. My hard-working black neighbors complain about it to me all the time. Niggers don’t.

And that’s just the way it is. It’s your fault. Not ours!

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 11:50 PM

I'm not 'slipping' out of anything, hard4janira. I don't think we should move this thread too far afield with off topic discussions. Who's a jew, what's a jew etc, IMO shouldn't be in this thread, that's all.

And who's more nutty than InHouston, who still believes his insanity that the good old morally pure USA 'inherited' slavery!lol

Honest, the original colonists had no interest in buying free human labor to till their tobacco and cotton plantations, those evil Euros MADE us enslave our fellow human beings for economic gain.

As if Africans were sailing slave ships back and forth from West Africa to slave ports on the east coast of the U.S.lol

Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit, InHouston. You sound mentally challenged.

:dead::dead: Yo Giovanni that fool just told me Native Africans and the Spaniards only did slavery and WE whoever the hell that is inherited slavery lol hahahahah:dead::dead:

I am so glad I'm not the only one that caught that bullshit lol

See that's what I told hard4janira, that you have a good head on your shoulders and I notice that, if you and I agree on anything it's ok, that don't mean we are less intelligent, but I see the move hard4janira tried to make you and myself enemies, I'm not falling for that bullshit lol
Then the sad part InHouston told me I need to learn my history. FIRST OFF THAT SHIT AIN'T MY HISTORY LOL

jamesedwards

05-21-2012, 11:55 PM

All these elaborate arguments are cute. I’ve grown and lived in the black community, and it’s a load of shit.

If black people in America would quit acting like the complete fucking pricks they are, they wouldn't get profiled the way they do. All you need do is look at their art, their music, the shit they spray paint and tag on the properties of others. NO FUCKING RESPECT … AT ALL!
]

Awhhhhhhhh shut the fuck up man you sound stupid looks who's bitching now.

WHERE IS THE SOURCE YOU CLAIMED NATIVE AFRICANS AND SPANIARDS BROUGHT SLAVERY TO THE US?

See Ima shut your shit down right now, and I am not going to use my personal knowledge I will use wikipedia.

WIKIPEDIA
Merchants from various European nations were later involved in the Atlantic Slave trade: Portugal, Spain, France, England, Scotland, Brandenburg-Prussia, Denmark-Norway, the Netherlands, and Sweden.[86] As Britain rose in naval power and settled continental North America and some islands of the West Indies, they became the leading slave traders. At one stage the trade was the monopoly of the Royal Africa Company, operating out of London, but following the loss of the company's monopoly in 1689,[87] Bristol and Liverpool merchants became increasingly involved in the trade.[88] By the late 17th century, one out of every four ships that left Liverpool harbour was a slave trading ship.[89] Other British cities also profited from the slave trade. Birmingham, the largest gun producing town in Britain at the time, supplied guns to be traded for slaves. 75% of all sugar produced in the plantations came to London to supply the highly lucrative coffee houses there.

Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade)
------------------------------------------

Bammmmmmm I didn't say it, WIKIPEDIA SAID IT!!! So you go do your history!!!

giovanni_hotel

05-21-2012, 11:59 PM

You're hopelessly ignorant, InHouston.
You only know one type of Black person and are stuck on that model as an archetype for all Black people. Others and myself have tried to draw a distinction for you, but the racist in you refuses to draw any lines of distinction.

If your life observations have led you to believe, 'if you've seen one N----, you've seen them all', or, 'all N----s are the same', which is what you've been arguing for the most part in this thread, that's not much different than when I hear some Black folk say in private that ALL White people are the devil, may the good Lord strike them all down.

I know this is an alien concept, but as an adult you have an obligation to judge people ONE AT A TIME. Not as a group.

Saying 'fuck Trayvon' because of the fact you've seen some ignorant Black folk out and about isn't just ignorant, it's a deep seated racial bias.

I guess the next time there's a story about a White female jogger getting raped in D.C., it's okay for me to pull out 'well Whitey raped my ancestors, fuck that bitch she got what's coming to her'.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

And your 'enlightened' ass spends way too much time in the ghetto. Just saying.

jamesedwards

05-22-2012, 12:01 AM

I will respect that of Giovanni about the Jewish thingy, so I won't comment on that anymore.

So it looks as Zimmerman's case is falling apart before our eyes. But there is much time to se what else both sides can find.

jamesedwards

05-22-2012, 12:05 AM

And your 'enlightened' ass spends way too much time in the ghetto. Just saying.

:dead: :dead: :dead:

jamesedwards

05-22-2012, 12:37 AM

InHouston I am still waiting lol on you for your source where you got your info from? LOL And you told me I need to study right? Where are you?

hard4janira

05-22-2012, 02:48 AM

I'm not 'slipping' out of anything, hard4janira. I don't think we should move this thread too far afield with off topic discussions. Who's a jew, what's a jew etc, IMO shouldn't be in this thread, that's all.

I agree completely. But maybe you should clue James in on a few facts (like you can be German and Jewish, Russian and Jewish etc...He seems to thinks a persons name plays a significant role in their race. By that logic I presume you must be Italian....).

Honest, the original colonists had no interest in buying free human labor to till their tobacco and cotton plantations, those evil Euros MADE us enslave our fellow human beings for economic gain.

You are not entirely correct. Not all colonists were the same. The Puritans were always anti-slavery and they were the first to establish a permanent settlement here. I don't think you will find many (if any) Puritans involved in the slave trade. They were extremely devout and pious people. Quakers came a little later and they probably would not have been involved in the slave trade either. The colonies in the south that were established by the King of England (Anglican) encouraged and participated in the slave trade.

jamesedwards

05-22-2012, 03:44 AM

I agree completely. But maybe you should clue James in on a few facts (like you can be German and Jewish, Russian and Jewish etc...He seems to thinks a persons name plays a significant role in their race. By that logic I presume you must be Italian....).
.

You what's so amazing about you, YOU DON'T FUCKING READ AND THEN YOU WANT TO TRY AND DISRESPECT SOMEONE AS IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!! Not only did I say I put up videos of two of the most prominent Dr.'s on African history and I can get more.

I said Caucasian Khazar Ashkenazi Jews are CONVERTED JEWS!!! They are not of the original bloodline of the Jews. The African dark Melanin Hebrews are the original bloodline of Hebrew Israelites, the European Caucasian so called Jews are have absolutely nothing to do with the bloodline of the original Hebrews.
If you're going to quote me quote me right.
Yes names are significant, if Your dam name is Jack and then I call you Jake, will you answer if I call you Jake? So names do count if they didn't count, how come the word Jew didn't exist yet it's now the name associated with the Caucasian converted Jews and not the original Hebrew Israelites? Because someone wants to tell a lie and change history. I can go so deep into map changes all types of things.

These are the original Hebrew Israelites, and they are disrespected by the So called Caucasian converted Jews. I asked you show me where I am wrong, You don't provide no cited sources that I can check all you do is babble. A lot of my own people here in the US don't even know those Dark African Hebrew Israelite Kushites exist because all the media show is the Caucasian converted Jews!!!

http://img1.imagehousing.com/19/4273a5fb083769ccde1ec567ca0e258b.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1019795)
http://img1.imagehousing.com/57/2b7810ee7556eeab9e95ecb717be6676.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1019796)
http://img1.imagehousing.com/67/bb6a1a9b7d5a1c38f4f76c615575f14a.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1019800)

Does this look like those original Hebrews Israelites, later became Jews? HELL NO!!!

http://img1.imagehousing.com/65/c1523d8bdbd631cf49e86e57c521f42c.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1019797)

NOW PROVE ME WRONG!!! YOU KEEP YAPPIN AND FLAPPIN BUT WHERE ARE YOUR DOCUMENTS?

onmyknees

05-22-2012, 04:03 AM

jamesedwards

05-22-2012, 04:26 AM

Are you serious with this bilge? Stop humping your post count...it's quality not quantity dude.

Go to any Jewish neighboorhood in NYC and pop open the phone book. There are thousands of Zimmermans. In fact I believe Bob Dylan's last name was Zimmerman.

Now get re-focused and back on topic....I need some humor tonight.

You're a joke, of course there are so called Jews named Zimmerman, Wenstien, Rosenberg, etc. I said these names of origin is not from the original Hebrew Israelite Jewish names, these names of from German or Polish, this shows that they are not originally Hebrews. You're ignorant, wikipedia gives you the origin of where the word Zimmerman comes FROM!!! it's a German name not a Hebrew Isrealite Jewish name. That was my argument, you're so lost you don't know what the hell you're talking about. So go on and laugh and you look like the fool. Don't tell me to and see some one, there's the definition of Zimmerman it's not Hebrew Origin based. This is what the Caucasians have done some of you are so mixed up you don't know what's what and that was their purpose, but not fooling me!!! So carry on, until you can show me a cited source that the word Zimmerman comes from Hebrew Israelite Jew origin YOU ARE WRONG IN YOUR ATTEMPT!!! And quite frankly I am on the topic, someone said that Zimmerman the name was a Jewish name so I am on topic lol:fu::fu:

Stavros

05-22-2012, 09:43 AM

LOL dude wtf are you talking about? I didn't say anything bout china being ran by jews or india LOL how the hell we get from the media in the USA to all these other places? NBC, ABC etc are ran by so called Jews, stay with me dude, stay in AMERICA!!!

Oh name changes is no big deal huh? You have heard of Kunta Kinte right? The name changing process was one of the racist imperial acts done on my people by Caucasian slave owners, it was one of the vices to strip the identity from African people. But let you tell it name changing is not a big deal.

The silly claim you made about ownership of the media has been applied by certain people with no regard to international borders, and you may even be aware that media corporations in the US are part of international business, of which Rupert Murdoch is an obvious example, with media outlets in Europe, Asia and Australasia as well as the US. Your attempt to 'uncover' the truth about Murdoch is frankly unworthy of further comment; just as you missed the point about your own inability to grapple with the issue of naming people and places. If you want to be taken seriously when making historical points, relying on Wikipedia is not going to help; and looking for sources on the web that confirm your own prejudices is not history but, well, prejudice. The core issue that is at the heart of the Florida case is the process of the law -the meaning and value of that state's 'Stand your ground' law; the conduct of the Sanford police following the incident, just as the court proceedings will either confirm or deny what people currently don't know as anything but partial truths and speculation. It may be that Zimmerman 'profiled' Martin; that the police did not take immediate action in the way some think they should have, because they too 'profiled' the victim and decided he -or rather, his family, wasn't worth the trouble. But until hard facts are on record, the profiles are a matter of speculation.

History does contain facts, but it looks feeble when you select merely those that support your argument -to make an historical point stick, one needs to show not why one is right, but why the others are wrong. Not an easy task.

Best to re-focus our attention on the process of law and justice in Florida, we have enough problems with it in the UK, there are a couple of disturbing cases here (Stephen Lawrence, Mark Duggan) that would not get the attention they deserve because British cases don't on Hungangels, but they are just as toxic, even if the context is different.

natina

05-22-2012, 10:06 AM

How we became white people

Part of complete coverage on
Census: Who Am I?

How we became white people
By Christian Lander, Special to CNNApril 30, 2010 10:44 a.m. EDT

Editor's note: America's 300 million-plus people are declaring their identity in the 2010 census. This piece is part of a special series on CNN.com in which people describe how they see their own identity. Christian Lander is a writer living in Los Angeles. His book "Stuff White People Like" is published by Random House.

(CNN) -- I am white. I know that's a terribly big surprise, considering that I write a blog called Stuff White People Like, but I mean it, I'm white.

Like really white.

I'm not attempting to assert some sort of superiority through my whiteness; quite the opposite actually. Thanks to my liberal upbringing, I am imbued with the appropriate amount of guilt and shame about my ancestors and their actions in the New World.

Even in my home, I can't offer a blanket to a nonwhite friend without the fear that they will look at me and say "no smallpox on this right?" A joke, but I still want to apologize.

I'm a white male. I belong to a group that pretty much always been able to own land and to vote. I'm more or less from the kind that grabbed power somewhere after the fall of Rome and never let go. In other words, I'm the kind of white guy that has never experienced any real oppression.

Although I guess my ancestors technically left England because of some religious persecution and in spite of a rough boat ride and a rough first Thanksgiving, it's safe to say it worked out pretty well. Unless you got one of those aforementioned blankets.

But in addition to being white and having ancestors on the Mayflower, I'm also Canadian. Yes, I know that might actually make me more white than before, but it also technically makes me an immigrant to this country.

Still, I am loath to call myself an immigrant because I don't want to demean the very real, very difficult challenges faced by immigrants to this country who have had to overcome differences in language, culture and distance from their families. I would say my biggest hardship has been trying to find Ketchup Chips.

But in the eyes of the U.S. government, I am an immigrant, the same as someone from China, Mexico or India. I would not be in this country had I not met my wife in graduate school, and I am thankful every day for her and the opportunity to live in the United States.

So when the census came around, I was absolutely thrilled. I've lived in the United States for eight years (four of them as a graduate student), and in that time, I have never been able to vote or access any public services. The census meant I was going to be counted, I was going to be a part of American history. A good part, not that blanket part.

When the form arrived, I scanned the options and quickly checked "white." I would have checked "Canadian" but that option wasn't anywhere to be found. There it was, I was a white American, or technically a white American Permanent Resident. But then I started thinking about what it really means to be a white American.

As long as America has been around, I would have been considered white. I would have checked the same box in the 1790 census, had my relatives decided to stay on their land instead of moving to Canada to stay loyal to the King of England. But not everyone who checked that box on the census has always been considered white. Irish, Italian, Jewish, German and Eastern European have all been considered not white. or at the very least "not American."

All of these groups came to America amid widespread discrimination, and yet through the process of assimilation and Americanization, the status of white was slowly conferred upon them (read "The History of White People" or "How the Irish Became White" for actual, intelligent research on how this happened).

And with this new-found white status also came the status of "ethnically American." Of course, a lot of people will say that there is no such thing as an ethnic American and that everyone who becomes a citizen is an American. And this is true to the letter of the law, but if we consider the popular perception of immigration and the American dream, to say that white skin has nothing to do with it would be complete folly.

In the popular myth, immigrants arrive as huddled masses yearning to be free and most of the women wear scarves around their head. They move to the Lower East Side or some other suitably "ethnic" community, they change a last name, they learn English and within one generation they are welcomed into the country as ethnic Americans and granted that wonderful privilege of checking the white box on the census.

The reality is that America has a long history of welcoming immigrants who will never be able to check that white box on the census, and unfortunately that means America also has a long history of discrimination against those people regardless of their status in the country. Just one example would be the treatment of Japanese-Americans during World War II contrasted against the treatment of German-Americans.

But all of that was in the past right? Well, ask yourself this: Who is more likely to get pulled over and forced to show his papers in Arizona today? A first generation Canadian immigrant, or a 10th generation Mexican-American?

What I hope this census will force the country to deal with is the fact that white immigrants like me will never again make up the majority of people that come to this country. America is not getting whiter, it will never get whiter. Well, unless we start handing those blankets out again.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Christian Lander.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/29/lander.who.am.i/index.html?npt=NP1
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/29/lander.who.am.i/index.html?npt=NP1

natina

05-22-2012, 10:08 AM

http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)

Think of the Whitest person you know: someone with blond hair, blue eyes and almost translucent skin, not a drop of Black ancestry in them. Now think of the darkest person you know: someone richly endowed with traditional African features, not even a drop of White ancestry in their past. Well, guess what? Scientists now trace the origins of both of these people-and of all human beings who have ever walked the face of the earth-to Black Africa, to the region around what is now Ethiopia. As Spencer Wells, the director of National Geographic's massive Genographic Project, puts it: "Our species evolved in Africa, and a subset of Africans left that continent around 50,000 years ago to populate the rest of the world. Our earliest ancestors probably looked very much like modern Africans."
This would have been news to "Bull" Connor and Orval Faubus and countless other racists from our past. It is also news to most of our White
http://www.africandna.com/images/photos/history.jpg

"I was able to trace the family trees of several prominent African Americans deep into slavery, following the paper trail. And then when the paper trail ended, we tested their DNA in an attempt to discover the origins of their mother's line or their father's line on the African continent."
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
Alphonse Fletcher University Professor, Harvard University Director,
W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research

everyone regardless if you are white ,Spanish ,Mexican or Asian

can traced there origins back to two Ethiopians ,a man and a women.

these two Ethiopians are everyones ancestors

http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)

http://www.africandna.com/ (http://www.africandna.com/)

http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)

http://tvtbt.files.wordpress.com/201...enry-gates.jpg (http://tvtbt.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/henry-gates.jpg)

Henry Louis “Skip” Gates, Jr., (born September 16, 1950) is an American (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/United_States) literary critic (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Literary_criticism), educator, scholar, writer, editor, and public intellectual (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Public_intellectual). He was the first African American (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/African_American) to receive the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation Fellowship. He has received numerous honorary degrees and awards for his teaching, research, and development of academic institutions to study black culture (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Black_culture). In 2002, Gates was selected to give the Jefferson Lecture (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Jefferson_Lecture), in recognition of his "distinguished intellectual achievement in the humanities."
As the host of the 2006 and 2008 PBS (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/PBS) television miniseries African American Lives (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/African_American_Lives), Gates explored the genealogy of prominent African Americans. Gates sits on the boards of many notable arts, cultural, and research institutions. He serves as the Alphonse Fletcher (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Alphonse_Fletcher) University Professor (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Harvard_University_Professor) at Harvard University (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Harvard_University), where he is director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/W._E._B._Du_Bois_Institute)

http://shadmia.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/henry-louis-gates.gif

natina

05-22-2012, 10:09 AM

“I Am African” Ad Campaign

New “I Am African” Ad Campaign Shows Celebs In Tribal Paint

Richard Gere, Sarah Jessica Parker & Liv Tyler Are Africans

A slew of A-list stars are featured in the new "I Am African" campaign for the nonprofit organization Keep a Child Alive.

The Hollywood heavyweights -- including Richard Gere, Sarah Jessica Parker and Liv Tyler, as well as black Americans Janet Jackson, Alicia Keys and Tyson Beckford, along with Somali-born supermodel Iman, the organization's global ambassador -- are photographed in tribal face paint to more effectively send the message that "each and every one of us contains DNA that can be traced back to our African ancestors

http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/ (http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/)
http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/ (http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/)
http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/ (http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/)
http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/ (http://www.bvblackspin.com/2011/03/25/richard-gere-sarah-jessica-parker-and-liv-tyler-are-africans/)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.bvblackspin.com/media/2011/03/i-am-african-450pk032511.jpg

natina

05-22-2012, 10:09 AM

White Priviledge

by ColorMeGray, 10/9/2008 4:25:41 PM

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their fuckin' ass," and talk about how you like to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a
responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of,
then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to
achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough for
the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until the 1950s--while believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school, requires it), is a
dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.

White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto is "Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your
spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's
being disrespectful.

White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of
women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you're being pithy and tough, but if
you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college and the fact that she lives close to Russia--you're somehow being mean, or even sexist.

White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your
running mate anyway, because suddenly your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."

Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=241685&stc=1&d=1243283738

natina

05-22-2012, 10:12 AM

BIGGER ISSUES? WHITE COLLAR CRIME IS THE REASON WERE IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WHITE COLLAR CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED MOSTLY AND NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY

ITS DISCUSSED IN TIM WISE'S LECTURES

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g)

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=white+supremacy+intitutional+ racism+local+government+federal+state&search=related&v=C55zE_qJd2g&page=1

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=224573&stc=1&d=1234386730

natina

05-22-2012, 10:14 AM

WHITE PRIVILEGE
By Tim Wise

For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because “every family has challenges,” even as black and Latino families with similar “challenges” are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a “fuckin’ redneck,” like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll “kick their fuckin' ass,” and talk about how you like to “shoot shit” for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don’t all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you’re “untested.” 

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance because “if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it’s good enough for me,” and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the “under God” part wasn’t added until the 1950s--while if you're black and believe in reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), you're a dangerous and mushy liberal who isn't fit to safeguard American institutions. 

White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you. 

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto is “Alaska first,” and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she’s being disrespectful. 

White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you’re being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college and the fact that she lives near Russia, you’re somehow being mean, or even sexist. 

White privilege is being able to convince white women who don’t even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a “second look.” 

White privilege is being able to fire people who didn’t support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt. 

White privilege is when you can take nearly twenty-four hours to get to a hospital after beginning to leak amniotic fluid, and still be viewed as a great mom whose commitment to her children is unquestionable, and whose "next door neighbor" qualities make her ready to be VP, while if you're a black candidate for president and you let your children be interviewed for a few seconds on TV, you're irresponsibly exploiting them.

White privilege is being able to give a 36-minute speech in which you talk about lipstick and make fun of your opponent, while laying out no substantive policy positions on any issue at all, and still manage to be considered a legitimate candidate, while a black person who gives an hour speech the week before, in which he lays out specific policy proposals on several issues, is still criticized for being too vague about what he would do if elected.

White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who say the conflict in the Middle East is God’s punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you’re just a good church-going Christian, but if you’re black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you’re an extremist who probably hates America. 

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a “trick question,” while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O’Reilly means you’re dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced. 

White privilege is being able to go to a prestigious prep school, then to Yale and Harvard Business School (George W. Bush), and still be seen as an "average guy," while being black, going to a prestigious prep school, then Occidental College, then Columbia, and then Harvard Law, makes you "uppity" and a snob who probably looks down on regular folks.

White privilege is being able to graduate near the bottom of your college class (McCain), or graduate with a C average from Yale (W.), and that's OK, and you're still cut out to be president, but if you're black and you graduate near the top of your class from Harvard Law, you can't be trusted to make good decisions in office.

White privilege is being able to dump your first wife after she's disfigured in a car crash so you can take up with a multi-millionaire beauty queen (who you then go on to call the c-word in public) and still be thought of as a man of strong family values, while if you're black and married for nearly 20 years to the same woman, your family is viewed as un-American and your gestures of affection for each other are called "terrorist fist bumps."

White privilege is when you can develop a pain-killer addiction, having obtained your drug of choice illegally like Cindy McCain, go on to beat that addiction, and everyone praises you for being so strong, while being a black guy who smoked pot a few times in college and never became an addict means people will wonder if perhaps you still get high, and even ask whether or not you may have sold drugs at some point.

White privilege is being able to sing a song about bombing Iran and still be viewed as a sober and rational statesman, with the maturity to be president, while being black and suggesting that the U.S. should speak with other nations, even when we have disagreements with them, makes you dangerously naive and immature.

White privilege is being able to say that you hate "gooks" and "will always hate them," and yet, you aren't a racist because, ya know, you were a POW, so you're entitled to your hatred, while being black and noting that black anger about racism is understandable, given the history of your country, makes you a dangerous bigot.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism and an absent father is apparently among the "lesser adversities" faced by other politicians, as Sarah Palin explained in her convention speech.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters aren’t sure about that whole “change” thing. Ya know, it’s just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain… 

White privilege is, in short, the problem.

(Red Room Editor's Note: This online community of writers welcomes all the new members who have found us by way of Tim Wise's thought-provoking entries and who have taken the time to comment. We encourage you to read Tim's follow-up here, and to discover all the other great writing on other Red Room blogs and original articles.)

http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/blog/this-is-your-nation-on-white-privilege-updated

natina

05-22-2012, 10:15 AM

On White Pride and Other Delusions:

Reflections on the Rage of the Uninformed

By Tim Wise

May 23, 2007

"The price the white American paid for his ticket was to become white...This incredibly limited, not to say dimwitted ambition has choked many a human being to death here: and this, I contend, is because the white American has never accepted the real reasons for his journey. I know very well that my ancestors had no desire to come to this place: but neither did the ancestors of the people who became white and who require of my captivity a song. They require of me a song less to celebrate my captivity than to justify their own."

James Baldwin, "The Price of the Ticket," 1985

It seems like every week I get an e-mail from someone demanding to know why there's no White History Month, or White Entertainment Television, or why whites aren't allowed to have organizations to defend "our" interests, the way people of color are, without being thought of as racists. One of these internet missives, which has been making the rounds lately on MySpace and other popular networking sites, implies that whites are somehow oppressed because we can't get away with calling people of color any number of racial slurs (a litany of which the author then proceeds to recite, almost gleefully), while persons of color presumably call us names like "cracker," "honky," or "hillbilly" all the time.

The e-mail goes on to express anger over, among other things, Martin Luther King Jr. day, and Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance day in Israel), as if these were holidays that discriminated against whites. It then laments that white pride is seen as racist, but for people of color to feel and show pride in their group is seen as normal, natural, and even healthy.

The Reverse Racism Ruse (Or How to Ignore Power, History and Logic)

That so many people find this kind of argumentation persuasive would be humorous were it not so dangerous, and so indicative of the way in which our nation has yet to come to grips with its racist history. Had we honestly confronted racism as an issue, past and present, it is unlikely that such positions would make sense to anyone. After all, every month has been white history month, even if they weren't called that. White history has been made the normative history, the default position, and when your narrative is taken as the norm--indeed, when it gets to be viewed as synonymous with American history--the need to racially designate its origins is obviously a less pressing concern. White folks' contributions have never been ignored, diminished or overlooked. As such, to now demand special time to teach about the people we've already learned about from the start seems a bit preposterous.

As for racial slurs, while it is certainly fair to point out that their use is always inappropriate, no matter whom they're directed against, to think that a term like hillbilly is truly equivalent to those used against people of color, like "nigger," "spic," "raghead," or "chink," requires one to exhibit a profound ignorance of history. These and other slurs against people of color not only sound more hateful, they have operated in a more hateful manner, by forming the linguistic cornerstone of systematic oppression and institutionalized racial supremacy. Hundreds of thousands were enslaved and millions have died at the hands of those who thought of their victims as "niggers," "spics," "ragheads" and "chinks," and used those terms as they went about their murderous ways. American history, in its historic treatment of persons of color has been an inter-generational hate crime, which didn't begin to end, even in theory, until the 1960s. On the other hand, anti-white terms are typically the end of the line when it comes to anti-white racism. People of color control no institutions that are capable of discriminating systematically against whites. They cannot keep whites from having jobs, or getting a loan. Nor can black cops get away with racially profiling whites, even when whites actually do lead the pack in one or another form of criminal behavior (serial killing, corporate fraud, or drunk driving, for example). So no, the terms are not the same, even as all are inappropriate and offensive.

And the idea that whites working for white empowerment or "white rights" is no different than people of color working for the empowerment of their group (through such mechanisms as the NAACP, or the Congressional Black Caucus, for instance), also makes sense, only if one takes a fundamentally dishonest glimpse at the nation's past.

After all, groups representing persons of color were created to address the unique disempowerment experienced by those groups' members. Blacks, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans have been systematically denied opportunities in the U.S. solely because of their group membership. Their "race" was the basis for housing discrimination, restrictions on educational opportunities, exclusion from jobs, and other forms of mistreatment. Whites have never been the targets of institutional oppression in the U.S., as whites, such that organizing as whites would have made sense. Sure, whites have been marginalized on the basis of ethnicity--the Irish, for example, or Italians, or Jews--and have long organized around ethnicity as a support system, for job networking, educational benefits, or other purposes. But as whites, persons of European descent have been the dominant group. So to organize on that basis, would be to come together for the purpose of providing collective support for one's existing domination and hegemony. It would be like corporate management forming a union to protect its interests from workers; or like the upper-caste in India, forming a Brahmin support group to protect itself from the Dalits, at the other end of the caste spectrum. Such a contingency would be redundant in the extreme.

To have a White Student Union, especially at a college where whites were in the clear majority, would be absurd, for this reason. To have a Congressional White Caucus, given the way in which white elites dominate the government would be even worse. To have a White Entertainment Television would ignore that whites already predominate on most all existing networks, and that shows pegged to people of color are few and far between, and usually limited to a handful of smaller networks and cable outlets.

Though many argue that affirmative action has made whites the victims of massive "reverse discrimination," and thus necessitated the rise of a white rights movement to secure white collective interests, the evidence simply doesn't support such a view. Although individual whites have likely experienced instances of discrimination--and anecdotal data suggests this is true, though far, far less often than the occasions when people of color experience it--there is nothing to indicate that such incidents are a widespread social phenomenon, against which whites now require organizations to protect them.

So, for instance, whites hold over ninety percent of all the management level jobs in this country (1), receive about ninety-four percent of government contract dollars (2), and hold ninety percent of tenured faculty positions on college campuses (3). Contrary to popular belief, and in spite of affirmative action programs, whites are more likely than members of any other racial group to be admitted to their college of first choice (4). Furthermore, white men with only a high school diploma are more likely to have a job than black and Latino men with college degrees (5), and even when they have a criminal record, white men are more likely than black men without one to receive a call back for a job interview, even when all their credentials are the same (6). Despite comparable rates of school rule infractions, white students are only half to one-third as likely as blacks and Latino youth to be suspended or expelled (7); and despite higher rates of drug use, white youth are far less likely to be arrested, prosecuted or incarcerated for a drug offense than are youth of color (:cool:.

So when it comes to jobs, education, housing, contracting, or anything else, people of color are the ones facing discrimination and restricted opportunities, while whites remain on top, making the idea of organizing for our collective interests little more than piling dominance on top of dominance. Not to ensure a place at the table, so to speak, but to secure the table itself, and to control who gets to be seated around it, for now and always.

It is for this reason that white pride is more objectionable than "black pride," or "Latino pride." In the case of the latter two, those exhibiting pride are not doing so as a celebration of their presumed superiority, nor dominance over others. If anything, they are celebrating the perseverance of their people against great obstacles, such as those placed in their way by discrimination, conquest and enslavement. In the case of white pride, whites as whites have not overcome obstacles in the same fashion, because we have always been the dominant group. Although Irish pride or Italian pride makes sense given the way in which persons of those ethnicities have faced real oppression in the past (and even today, in the case of Italians, who sometimes face negative stereotypes), white pride, given the historic meaning of whiteness, can mean little but pride in presumed superiority.

White Bonding as a Dangerous Distraction

But especially ironic is that by seeking to bond on the basis of whiteness, those pushing the concept end up ignoring the way in which white identity has actually harmed persons of European descent, by causing most of us to ignore our real interests, all for the sake of phony racial bonding. To understand why this is so, it might help to have some historical perspective on how the notion of whiteness came into being in the first place, and for what purpose.

Contrary to popular belief, the white race is a quite modern creation, which only emerged as a term and concept to describe Europeans in the late 1600s and after, specifically in the colonies of what would become the United States. Prior to that time, "whites" had been a collection of Europeans with little in common, and often long histories of conflict, bloodshed and conquest of one another's lands and peoples. The English, for example, did not consider themselves to be of the same group as the Irish, Germans, Italians, or French. While most Europeans by that time may have thought of themselves as Christians, there is no evidence that they conceived of themselves as a race of people, with a common heritage or destiny.

But the notion of the white race found traction in the North American colonies, not because it described a clear scientific concept, or some true historical bond between persons of European descent, but rather, because the elites of the colonies (who were small in number but controlled the vast majority of colonial wealth) needed a way to secure their power. At the time, the wealthy landowners feared rebellions, in which poor European peasants might join with African slaves to overthrow aristocratic governance; after all, these poor Europeans were barely above the level of slaves themselves, especially if they worked as indentured servants (9).

In 1676, for example, Bacon's Rebellion prompted a new round of colonial laws to extend rights and privileges to despised poor Europeans, so as to divide them from those slaves with whom they had much in common, economically speaking. By allowing the lowest of Europeans to be placed legally above all Africans, and by encouraging (or even requiring) them to serve on slave patrols, the elite gave poor "whites" a stake in the system that had harmed them. Giving poor Europeans the right to own land, ending indentured servitude in the early 1700s, and in some cases allowing them to vote, were all measures implemented so as to convince lower-caste Europeans that their interests were closer to those of the rich than to those of blacks. It was within this context that the term "white" to describe Europeans en masse was born, as an umbrella term to capture the new pan-Euro unity needed to defend the system of African slavery and Indian genocide going on in the Americas (10). And the trick worked marvelously, dampening down the push for rebellion by poor whites on the basis of class interest, and encouraging them to cast their lot with the elite, if only in aspirational terms.

This divide-and-conquer tactic would be extended and refined in future generations as well. Indeed, the very first law passed by the newly established Congress of the United States was the Naturalization Act of 1790, which extended citizenship to all "free white persons," and only free white persons, including newly arrived immigrants, so long as the latter would make their homes in the U.S. for a year. Despite longstanding animosities between persons of European descent, all blood feuds were put aside for the purpose of extending pan-Euro or white hegemony over the United States (11).

During the Civil War, the process of using "whiteness" to further divide working people from one another continued. So, for example, Southern elites made it quite clear that their reason for secession from the Union was the desire to maintain and extend the institution of slavery and white supremacy, which institutions they felt were threatened by the rise of Lincoln and the Republican Party. One might think that seceding and going to war to defend slavery would hardly meet with the approval of poor white folks, who didn't own slaves. After all, if slaves can be made to work for free, any working class white person who must charge for their labor will be undercut by slave labor, and find it harder to make ends meet. Yet by convincing poor whites that their interests were racial, rather than economic, and that whites in the South had to band together to defend "their way of life," the elites in the South conned these same lower-caste Europeans into joining a destructive war effort that cost hundreds of thousands of lives (12): their lives, in fact.

Then during the growth of the labor union movement, white union workers barred blacks from apprenticeship programs and unions because of racism, encouraged in this by owners and bosses who would use workers of color to break white labor strikes for better wages and working conditions. By bringing in blacks and others of color to break strikes, bosses counted on white workers turning on those replacing them, rather than turning on the bosses themselves. And indeed, this is what happened time and again, further elevating whiteness above class interest in the minds of European Americans (13).

The effectiveness of racist propaganda to unite whites around race, even if it meant overlooking economic interests was stunning. Nowhere was this phenomena better summed up than in the words of one white Texas fireman, who responded to the suggestion that the ranks of railroaders should be opened up to blacks by saying, "We would rather be absolute slaves of capital than to take the Negro into our lodges as an equal and brother (14)."

White Bonding and the Continued Conning of the Working Class

Today, whiteness continues to serve as a distraction to working class persons of European descent. So in the debate over immigration, it is often claimed that immigrants of color are driving down the wages of white workers, and that sealing the border is necessary to secure jobs and decent incomes for the working class. But such an argument presumes that the only thing keeping employers from giving white workers a raise (or black workers for that matter) is the presence of easily exploited foreign labor. As if closing the border would suddenly convince them to open up their wallets and give working people a better deal. In truth, however, were companies unable to exploit immigrant labor, they would simply move their entire operations to Mexico, or elsewhere, to take advantage of low-wage labor or non-existent regulations on their activities. And if they were the kind of companies that couldn't move their operations abroad (such as construction firms, for example), they would likely shift to more contingent, part-time and temp labor, which would mean that whoever ended up with those jobs would still have little or no benefits, and insecure wages. This is hardly the recipe for real improvement in the conditions of working people.

White workers would be far better off joining up with workers of color, including the undocumented, to push for higher wages and better working conditions; and they would surely be better off if those coming from Mexico were made legal and organized into unions. But thinking as whites has made this kind of cross-racial solidarity virtually unthinkable. Instead of focusing on the trade agreements that allow companies to move wherever they can get the best return on investment--agreements which have, even by the government's admission resulted in the loss of hundreds of thousands of good-paying jobs--white workers are encouraged, by racism and white bonding to focus their ire on the workers themselves. After all, the workers are brown, while the owners are almost all white, which is to say that the latter are the ones with whom the white working class has been convinced to identify.

For an especially painful example of how destructive white racial thinking can be, consider St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana, next door to New Orleans. In the aftermath of Katrina, St. Bernard was among the hardest hit communities. Next to the ninety-four percent black Lower 9th Ward, in New Orleans, ninety-four percent white St. Bernard was probably the most devastated part of the region. Though racially different, the communities are both predominantly working class and populated by families with moderate income; and when the federal government, via the Corps of Engineers failed to ensure the proper construction of the levees, or when the local levee board diverted levee repair funds to build interstate off-ramps for the area's casinos, both the Lower 9 and St. Bernard saw their communities utterly destroyed.

But despite the common interests of the two community's residents, if you had asked most any white person in St. Bernard about the folks who lived in the Lower 9th, prior to the storm (or for that matter today), you would have been treated (or still would be) to an uninterrupted string of racist invective. To whites in "da parish" as it's known, blacks from New Orleans are the source of all the region's problems. This is why, in 1991, more than seven in ten whites from St. Bernard voted for neo-Nazi, David Duke when he ran for Governor of Louisiana. This is why the very first thing that Parish government did upon returning home after the storm, and starting to rebuild, was to pass a blood relative law for renters: in other words, you couldn't rent in St. Bernard unless you were a blood relative of the person who was to be your landlord. It was a clear attempt to block people of color from moving in, and once legal action was threatened the Parish backed down, as they could offer no non-racist reason for passing such a law.

And yet, what has the racialized thinking of whites in St. Bernard gotten them? It didn't keep them safe from busted levees. Indeed, had they been less racist and less given to thinking with their color, they might have noticed how much they had in common with their 9th Ward neighbors. But instead of joining hands with blacks in New Orleans, and marching alongside them in Washington DC or Baton Rouge, and demanding that their joint concerns be addressed, whites in places like Chalmette have been content to sit around talking about the "niggahs," and how lucky they were not to have to live side-by-side with them.

In a final irony, when students from historically black Howard University went to the New Orleans area to do relief work earlier this year, they were assigned to work in St. Bernard, rebuilding homes: homes that were it up to Parish leaders, they wouldn't have been able to live in. When one busload of students arrived at the site to which they had been sent that day, locals promptly called police. Because after all, a bunch of black people in the neighborhood must be a sign of trouble. So much for solidarity.

Conclusion: White Solidarity Illogical and Hurtful for All

It is perhaps understandable that young whites, uninformed about the history of racism in America, might fall prey to the lure of "white rights" thinking. After all, without a full understanding of the way in which whites have been elevated above people of color, and continue to be favored in employment, housing, criminal justice and education, it would make sense for whites to wonder why things like affirmative action or Black History Month were necessary; or why groups that advocate for the interests of persons of color were still needed. If you start from the assumption that the U.S. is a level playing field, then these kinds of things might seem odd, even racially preferential. But given the historical context, not to mention the vital information regarding ongoing discrimination in the present, the importance and legitimacy of these initiatives and organizations becomes evident to all but the most unreasonable.

What is most important for white folks to understand is that our interests do not lie with the racial bonding we are being asked to embrace. Indeed, the very concept of the white race was invented by the wealthy so as to trick poor and working class European Americans into accepting an economic system that exploited them, even as it elevated them in relative terms over persons of color. As such, for whites to organize on the basis of whiteness is to codify as legitimate a category the meaning of which was always and forever about domination and privilege relative to those who couldn't qualify for membership in the club.

Finally, to organize as whites in a white-dominated society, where whites have eleven times the average net worth of blacks and eight times the average net worth of Latinos (15), have unemployment rates half that of blacks, poverty rates one-third as high as that for blacks and Latinos (16), and where whites run virtually every major institution in the nation, is by definition to organize for the continuation of that domination and supremacy. It is to seek to enshrine one's head start; to seek the perpetuation of hegemony established in a system of formal apartheid, as if to say that that system was perfectly legitimate and worthy of survival. It is fundamentally different than for a minority group to organize collectively so as to secure their interests, since minority interests and opportunities cannot be assumed or taken for granted, as a function of their lesser power, while those of the majority typically can.

And to organize on the basis of whiteness is to cast one's lot with the elite, who desperately wish for working class people to believe their enemies are each other, rather than the bosses who cut their wages, raid their pension funds, and limit their health care coverage. The more that white working people fight working people who are black and brown, the less they'll be likely to take aim at those who pick their pockets every day they show up for work: paying them only a fraction of the value of the products and services they provide, all in the name of profits which they have no intention of truly sharing with their employees. Whiteness is a trick, but sadly one that has worked for nearly three-and-a-half centuries. Only when white folks wise up, and realize that whiteness itself is our problem, will we ever stand a chance of true liberation. Until then, our whiteness will provide us privileges and advantages, but only in relation to those at the bottom of the racial caste structure. It will provide a psychological wage, as W.E.B. Dubois put it, as an alternative to real wages. Not a bad deal, until you're struggling to feed your family and keep a roof over their heads. For in times like that, real currency works a bit better.

NOTES:

(1) U.S Federal Glass Ceiling Commission, Good for Business: Making Full Use of the Nation's Human Capital. (Washington DC: Bureau of National Affairs, March 1995).

(2) Fred L. Pincus, Reverse Discrimination: Dismantling the Myth. (Boulder: Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2003), 18.

(3) Roberta J. Hill, "Far More Than Frybread," in Race in the College Classroom: Pedagogy and Politics, ed. Bonnie TuSmith and Maureen T. Reddy. (New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press), 169.

(4) Sylvia Hurtado and Christine Navia, "Reconciling College Access and the Affirmative Action Debate," in Affirmative Action's Testament of Hope, ed. Mildred Garcia (Albany, NY: SUNY Press, 1997), 115.

(5) The State of Black America 2007: Portrait of the Black Male. (NY: National Urban League 2007).

(6) Devah Pager, "The Mark of a Criminal Record," American Journal of Sociology 108, 5 (March 2003): 937-75.

(7) Russell J. Skiba, et al., The Color of Discipline: Sources of Racial and Gender Disproportionality in School Punishment (Indiana Education Policy Center, Policy Research Report SRS1, June 2000), 4.

(:cool: "Young White Offenders get lighter treatment," The Tennesseean. April 26, 2000: 8A; Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Results from the 2003 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (Office of Applied Studies, Department of Health and Human Services, Rockville, MD, 2004), also, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1999. Summary of Findings from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse; United States Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in the United States, 2001. (2002); Coramae Richey Mann, Unequal Justice: A Question of Color. (Indiana University Press, 1993), 224; Jim Sidanius, Shana Levin and Felicia Pratto, "Hierarchial Group Relations, Institutional Terror and the Dynamics of the Criminal Justice System," in Confronting Racism: The Problem and the Response. eds. Jennifer Eberhardt and Susan T. Fiske, (London: Sage Publications, 199:cool:, 142; SAMHSA, 2003 (see above): Table H.1. and calculations by the author. According to the SAMHSA report, as of 2003, there were 19.5 million current users of illegal narcotics. According to the data in the report, there were 165.4 million whites age 12 and over in the U.S., that year, and 8.5 percent of these were current users, which translates to 14 million white users. 14 million as a share of 19.5 million is 72 percent. According to the same report, there were 26.8 million blacks 12 and over in the U.S., of whom 9.7 percent were current drug users. This translates into 2.6 million current black drug users, which, as a share of 19.5 million is 13 percent. According to the report, there were 29 million Hispanics, of whom 7.2 percent, or 2 million, were current drug users. 2 million as a share of 19.5 million is 10 percent. Combined then, the black and Latino users come to 23 percent of all drug users; Human Rights Watch, Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs. (Washington, D.C. Volume 12, No. 2, May 2000); Michael K. Brown, et al., Whitewashing Race: The Myth of a Color-Blind Society. (University of California, 2003), 144.

(9) Rubio, Paul. 2000. A History of Affirmative Action, 1619-2000. University Press of Mississippi; Loewen, James, 1995. Lies My Teacher Told Me, New Press; Gutman, Herbert and the American Social History Project. 1989. Who Built America? Working People and the Nation's Economy, Politics, Culture and Society. (Volumes 1 and 2) NY: Pantheon; Allen, Theodore. 1994. The Invention of the White Race, Volume One: Racial Oppression and Social Control. NY: Verso; Allen, Theodore, 1997. The Invention of the White Race, Volume Two: The Origin of Racial Oppression in Anglo-America. NY; Verso.

(10) Rubio, 2000; Thandeka, 2000. Learning to Be White: Money, Race and God in America. NY: Continuum.

(11) Rubio, 2000; Ignatiev, Noel, 1994. How the Irish Became White. NY: Routledge; Guglielmo, Jennifer (ed), 2003. Are Italians White? How Race is Made in America. NY: Routledge.

(12) Manning, Chandra, 2007. What This Cruel War Was Over: Soldiers, Slavery and the Civil War. NY: Knopf.

(13) Loewen, 1995; Gutman, et.al. 1989.

(14) Brown, Michael K, Martin Carnoy, Elliott Currie, Troy Duster, David B. Oppenheimer, Marjorie M. Schultz and David Wellman, 2003. Whitewashing Race: The Myth of a Color-Blind Society. University of California: 207.

(15) Shawna Orzechowski and Peter Sepielli, Net Worth and Asset Ownership of Households: 1998 and 2000 (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports, P70-88, May 2003), 2.

(16) The State of Black America 2007: Portrait of the Black Male. (NY: National Urban League 2007)

This is a clip from The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality, the newly released video from the Media Education Foundation. The video is of a speech given by Tim Wise at Mt. Holyoke College, October 1, 2007.

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wis...whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)

more complete video but has relatedlinks/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEW...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlN...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related)

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1)

affirmative action /school bias
white people have affimative action to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0)

http://www.blackcommentator.com/64/64_images/64_cartoon_flag_pf.gif

Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=233386&stc=1&d=1239156913 http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=233387&stc=1&d=1239157070

natina

05-22-2012, 10:16 AM

TIM WISE speak at mostly all the universities all over the USA

he has been given assignments by the US government and has succeed in his endeavors

Tim Wise essays

This is a clip from The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality, the newly released video from the Media Education Foundation. The video is of a speech given by Tim Wise at Mt. Holyoke College, October 1, 2007.

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc)

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wis...whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)

more complete video but has relatedlinks/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEW...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlN...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related)

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1)

affirmative action /school bias
white people have affimative action to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irqMXsiXx0)

the most important items for you to here are Tim Wise on White Privilege (Teaser) m its only a few minutes and to help the school immediately at least the last 35 minutes of
Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"

http://www.redroom.com/media/tim-wise (http://www.redroom.com/media/tim-wise)

Subject: Tim Wise Between Barack and a Hard Place: Racism and White Denial in the Age of Obama, is now available! According to The Wall Street Journal, Barack Obama's presidential victory means we "can put to rest the myth of racism as a barrier to achievement

New Book on Racism and White Denial in the Age of Obama is now available!!!

January 18, 2009

Between Barack and a Hard Place: Racism and White Denial in the Age of Obama, is now available! According to The Wall Street Journal, Barack Obama's presidential victory means we "can put to rest the myth of racism as a barrier to achievement in this splendid country."According to columnist Richard Cohen, Obama as President signifies that America is a "post-racial" nation, and

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wis...whiteness-clip (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip)

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=241096&stc=1&d=1242951506

natina

05-22-2012, 10:19 AM

The Underprivileged White Male - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jaH_hmnrPU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

so why is black history not taught as American history?

the reason being is cause we were told a lie.

that Europeans came hear looking for freedom and to worship as they pleased

but the way they acted when they got here paints a different picture.

they burned people for being witches,persecuted if you preyed or worshiped differently then they did.

the truth is THAT THEY WERE CRIMINALS AND COULD NOT MAKE IT IN THE LAND THAT THEY WERE BORN IN

THIS IS CALLED THE DOMINATE NARRATIVE

DISCUSSED BY TIM WISE IN HIS ESSAYS

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wis...ical-narrative (http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-dominant-historical-narrative)

YouTube - Tim Wise on the "Dominant Narrative" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyeK7mcestg)

YouTube - Tim Wise on the "Dominant Narrative" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyeK7mcestg)

natina

05-22-2012, 10:21 AM

PEOPLE HAVE GROWN TIRED OF THIS!:" the BLACK MAN did it
‘Black man did it’ hoax sparks outrage

Pa. mother's abduction claim latest in string of false accusations

Bonnie Sweeten, left, claimed she and her daughter had been kidnapped by two black men but instead turned up at Walt Disney World. She is shown here at the Orange County, Fla. jail.

PHILADELPHIA - It's an old lie, claiming that The Black Man Did It.

But it was trotted out again last week when a white mother from suburban Philadelphia said two black men snatched her and her 9-year-old daughter from their SUV and abducted them in the trunk of a black Cadillac.

Blacks across the country were outraged after Bonnie Sweeten was found in a luxury hotel at Disney World. Authorities quickly unraveled the hoax, but not before an Amber Alert, frantic searches and national news coverage that played into images of marauding black men.

Racial boundaries are slowly dissolving in America, with President Barack Obama the most obvious example. Yet Sweeten's story, plus the killing of a black New York City cop by a white officer days later, was a reminder that old ideas remain burned into many minds both black and white.

Furious and disgusted
Sweeten's story has provoked an outpouring of discussion among blacks, everywhere from doctor's offices to blogs. Syndicated radio host Warren Ballentine said his listeners are "furious, and they're disgusted. ... On a scale of one to 10, it's a 15."

"Their hope was that by Obama becoming president, the rest of America would take a look at black Americans and look at us for who we are and not what a stereotype is," he said.

The Black Man Did It lie last made news as recently as October, when a John McCain volunteer claimed a 6-foot-4 black man carved a B into her cheek (For Barack, evidently). Charles Stuart told it in 1989 after he killed his wife in Boston. Susan Smith told it when she drowned her sons in 1994 in South Carolina. Unknown numbers of black men were hanged for it back when lynching was a common practice.

And those are the ones we heard about. Law professor Katheryn Russell-Brown documents 67 racial hoaxes in the period between 1987 and 1996 in her book "The Color of Crime."

So after Sweeten and her daughter were found in Florida, with local newspapers reporting an investigation of whether the 38-year-old woman embezzled large sums of money, many blacks felt not only angry, but resigned and frustrated.

"Here we go again," thought Add Seymour, an Atlanta resident who works in public relations for Morehouse College.

'Lynch mob mentality'
"Not only are people going to use us as the stereotypical crime problem of America, but the problem is people believe it so easily," he said. "It's a lynch mob mentality out there. ... The first thing you think of when it comes to crime is a black man. It's crazy, and it's unfair."

It's also rooted in a confusing mixture of psychology, statistics and sociology, amplified by the media's tendency to focus on crimes against white women.

Seymour's blood starts to boil whenever people lock their car doors as he walks by — yet even blacks sometimes hit that button when black men are in the vicinity. "It's not just white people who act that way," Seymour said.

‘Black man did it’ hoax sparks outrage

Common sense or racism?

Raqiyah Mays, a radio host on Kiss FM in New York City, drew a parallel between the Sweetney hoax and the killing of a black cop last week who was shot by a white policeman. The black officer was running after a suspect, his gun drawn.

"How many times have you seen a black man running down the street and thought something negative? As opposed to seeing a white guy running down the street and you think he's running late?" said Mays, who is black. "A lot of us are guilty of it because that's the way society has been set up."

One easy explanation is that black men are convicted of crimes at much higher rates than any other group. So was falling for Sweeten's lie racism, or common sense? And does Sweeten's blond hair have anything to do with the amount of media coverage her story received?

Media coverage questioned
New York Times columnist Bob Herbert recently wrote about the difference in coverage between the killing of a white female college student in Connecticut and the approximately three dozen Chicago public school students, mostly black, who have been killed this school year. He recalled an incident from early in his career, at another newspaper, when he heard an editor pondering the story of a dead child ask, "What color is that baby?"

"Editors may not be asking, `What color is that victim?' But, on some level, they're still thinking it," Herbert wrote.

Even without race, Sweeten's story was both sensational and nonsensical. It began when she called police, allegedly from a trunk, and said men had rear-ended her Yukon Denali at a busy suburban intersection, then abducted her and her daughter in broad daylight.

No one had seen it happen, and Sweeten somehow still had her cell phone. Black men also are scarce in Bucks County, which is 92 percent white and 4 percent black.

Authorities discovered that Sweeten had made the call from miles away, in downtown Philadelphia. Their attention turned to the airport, and Sweeten was soon found. She is free on $1 million bail, facing misdemeanor charges of identity theft and false reporting.

During a news conference after the hoax was exposed, Bucks County District Attorney Michelle Henry explained the charge of filing a false police report.

"It's a terrifying thing," she said, "for a community to hear that two black men in a black Cadillac grabbed a woman and her daughter."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31050599// (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31050599//)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31050599/page/2/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31050599/page/2/)

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090601-sweeten-hmed-150p.hmedium.jpg

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=243933&stc=1&d=1244331085

natina

05-22-2012, 10:24 AM

White skin appeared just 20,000 to 50,000 years ago, as dark-skinned humans migrated to colder climes and lost much of their melanin pigment.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/20-things-skin (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/20-things-skin)

see there is no biological basis for the idea of a white or black or asian

Race is an old concept that should probably be discarded. It was

created by people who had a very limited knowledge of their world. If you

look at any genetic map (mitochondrial or Y chromosome DNA), you can

see there is no biological basis for the idea of a white or black or asian

race.

Here's a map

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/)

natina

05-22-2012, 10:25 AM

all land was once one big piece of land then it broke up into the different countries we have today.
there is more evidence of how the people became yellow ,whiter, straighter hair etc.:iagree::geek:

plus every time someones DNA IS CHECKED USING THE STATE OF THE ART TECHNOLOGY THERE DNA IS TRACED BACK TO THESE TWO ETHIOPIANS IN BORN AFRICAN

Spencer Wells - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Wells)

Spencer Wells - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Wells) Spencer Wells - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Wells)
Spencer Wells - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Wells)

Spencer Wells (born April 6, 1969 in Georgia, United States (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Georgia,_United_States)) is a geneticist (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Geneticist) and anthropologist (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Anthropologist), an Explorer-in-Residence (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/explorers-program/eir/) at the National Geographic Society (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/National_Geographic_Society), and Frank H.T. Rhodes (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Frank_H.T._Rhodes) Class of '56 Professor at Cornell University (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Cornell_University). He leads The Genographic Project (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/The_Genographic_Project)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Spencer_Wells_2007.jpg/225px-Spencer_Wells_2007.jpg

Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey (Part 1 of 13) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV6A8oGtPc4)

natina

05-22-2012, 10:26 AM

white person is more likely to shot up a school,kill his whole family, serial killer
TIM WISE
talks about white violence because of the coping factor
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html (http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/10/suffer-from-privilege-induced-lack-of.html)

Has Black Friday arrived in America? If so, are you prepared?

Actually, if you're a "white" American, there's a good chance that you're less prepared than other Americans. Emotionally that, is. And mentally. Maybe even physically.

As is so often the case, Tim Wise has explained well this common symptom of learning to be white:

Racism and white privilege/supremacy generates a mindset of entitlement among those in the dominant group. This entitlement mentality can prove dangerous, whenever the expectations of a member of the group are frustrated. Principally this is because such persons develop very weak coping skills as a result of never having to overcome the obstacles that oppressed folks deal with every day and MUST conquer in order to survive.

So, as a result, it is the privileged (the beneficiaries of racism, and also, it should be pointed out, the class system) who are ill-prepared for setback: the loss of a job, stocks taking a nose-dive (who were the folks jumping out the windows in the great depression–not poor folks and folks of color, but rich whites who couldn’t handle being broke!) Likewise, if you look at the various personal pathologies that tend to be disproportionate in the white community (and upper middle class for that matter), they are interesting in that they all are about control–controlling one’s anxiety, emotional pain, or controlling and dominating others–like suicide, substance abuse, eating disorders, self-injury/mutilation, serial killing and mass murder (as opposed to just regular one-on-one homicide), sexual sadism killings, etc.

Not knowing how the world works is dangerous. White privilege and racism allow the dominant group to live in a bubble of unreality. Most days that’s no big deal I suppose. But every now and then reality intrudes on you and if you haven’t been expecting it, the trauma is magnified. So, when 9/11 happened, millions of whites were running around saying “why do they hate us?” because whites have never had to see our nation the way others do–we’ve been able to live in la-la land.

But folks of color didn’t say this, because those without privilege HAVE to know what others think about them. Not to do so is to be in perpetual danger. So whites flipped out, and by virtue of being unprepared, pushed for a policy response (war) that folks of color were HIGHLY skeptical of from the beginning. But whites, enthralled by our sense of righteousness (itself a manifestation of privilege), pushed forward, convinced that the war in Iraq would go swimmingly. How’s that working out?
In other words, racism and privilege generate mentalities and policies that are dysfunctional, even deadly for whites as with folks of color. Folks of color are the first victims, to be sure, and the worst. But as someone else said, what goes around. . .
Privilege creates a false sense of security. Being the dominant group can set you up for a fall, can prevent you from building up the coping skills needed to deal with setback, because so often those skills are ones you just don't need.
Until you do, that is.

[This quotation is adapted from two sources: a comment Tim Wise wrote at Resist Racism (http://resistracism.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/how-does-racism-harm-white-people/), and one of his books, White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son (http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9781933368993-0). Lyrics (http://www.steelydan.com/lyrkaty.html#track1) for Steely Dan's song "Black Friday"]

natina

05-22-2012, 10:29 AM

mtDNA: ‘Caucasian Eve’ Had Only Six Daughters (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/mtdna-white-eve-had-only-six-daughters/)

Over 90% of all Caucasoids – people native to Europe, North Africa and the Middle East – are descendants of the same 6 women who lived 20,000 to 30,000 years ago.
Their mtDNA (maternal line) haplogroups are H, J, K, T, V and U. All of them came from haplogroup R, which originated (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html?card=mm015) somewhere between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. That region is known as Caucasus, which is why white people are referred to as Caucasians.
East Asian haplogroups B and F, as well as the Pacific haplogroup P also derived from R, but due to the vast geographic separation from the above 6 haplogroups, they became vastly different.
There’re also some white people belonging to haplogroup X (and a small number of I and W), which is why BRYAN SYKES referred to Caucasoid mtDNA as having descended from the 7 daughters of Eve.
But as I explained (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/haplogroup-x-the-near-universal-mtdna/), I don’t believe it to be accurate because X is a near-universal haplogroup that is found in small numbers throughout much of the world, including among Amerindians, Pakistanis and others. It is therefore more an international haplogroup than a Caucasian one.
X originated (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html?card=mm015) in Iran or Turkmenistan, and not in the Caucasus. It is part of the haplogroup IWX and is related to haplotype R only because both IWX and R descended from haplotype N 30,000 to 55,000 years ago.
There are similarly 9 women who are the ancestors of all Japanese people, and 4 women (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001764) (haplogroups A2, B2, C1 and D1) are the ancestors of nearly all American Indians (and most of the remaining are descendants of haplogroup X).
This how mtDNA developed since the first humans left Africa. (You have to adjust your eyes because this map has Africa on top.)

http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/20...six-daughters/ (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/mtdna-white-eve-had-only-six-daughters/)
http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/20...six-daughters/ (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/mtdna-white-eve-had-only-six-daughters/)
http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/20...six-daughters/ (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/mtdna-white-eve-had-only-six-daughters/)
http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/20...six-daughters/ (http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/20...six-daughters/)

proven with DNA EVIDENCE

CAUCASIAN people are part of the Haplogroups.

http://www.africandna.com/ (http://www.africandna.com/)

http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)

Think of the Whitest person you know: someone with blond hair, blue eyes and almost translucent skin, not a drop of Black ancestry in them. Now think of the darkest person you know: someone richly endowed with traditional African features, not even a drop of White ancestry in their past. Well, guess what? Scientists now trace the origins of both of these people-and of all human beings who have ever walked the face of the earth-to Black Africa, to the region around what is now Ethiopia. As Spencer Wells, the director of National Geographic's massive Genographic Project, puts it: "Our species evolved in Africa, and a subset of Africans left that continent around 50,000 years ago to populate the rest of the world. Our earliest ancestors probably looked very much like modern Africans."
This would have been news to "Bull" Connor and Orval Faubus and countless other racists from our past. It is also news to most of our White brothers and sisters today. But it is an undeniable fact. We are all, in a very real sense, "Africans." The only question is how recently did our ancestors leave the Motherland? For the 35 million of us who are African- Americans-and for Black people in the Caribbean and Latin America-the answer is: very recently.

The first enslaved Africans arrived in the United States in the 17th century. So, in historical terms, our ancestors arrived here from Africa virtually "yesterday." This means that we are among the oldest Americans; but it also means that our relation to our African ancestors is recent.
This also means that we have many genetic "cousins" walking around the African continent today-a fact that has long obsessed me. Like 130 million other people, I watched every episode of Alex Haley's Roots when it first aired in 1977. And like many other African-Americans, I have yearned ever since to trace my own roots, to identify where in Africa my own ancestors came from, what tribe they were part of. Why is it important to do this? Two reasons. First, almost as soon as an African-American steps off a plane in Africa, he can't help but realize how "African" our people still are. Despite the horrors of the slave trade, African slaves brought their culture with them: their music, dances, religious beliefs, the way they cooked food, the way they walked, the way they lived--and loved--even the way they buried their dead. And many of these customs and traditions have been preserved, or subtly transformed, by our African- American ancestors. Indeed, if you go to a dance club in Africa, attend church, or eat a meal with an African family, you will be surprised at how much you can feel right at home, as if you have just met long lost relatives. The feeling is uncanny-and intensely pleasurable.

But there is another, perhaps more powerful, reason to trace one's African ancestry. For centuries, racists attempted to prevent us from connecting with our past. The entire system of slavery was dedicated to preventing us from preserving any memories of Africa, our ancestors' tribal identities, the languages we spoke there, the customs we practiced, the gods that we worshipped, even our African names. Slavery was a carefully conceived effort to rob our people of all family ties and the most basic sense of self-knowledge. Slave owners didn't want their slaves building family trees. They didn't want them to marry or maintain deep, abiding relations with their mothers and fathers, their grandparents or their siblings. They wanted them to feel no bonds of kinship, especially to Africa or to other Africans. Why? Because a family unit is a bond-and an extended family is a larger bond-and out of such bonds, loyalty and resistance are built. And the last thing in the world slave owners wanted was resistance from our ancestors who were slaves. Slave owners wanted our ancestors to think of themselves as nameless objects of property, plain and simple, like a chicken or a cow.
I am convinced that this still impacts our people today, crippling our ability to know ourselves by connecting with our family's past in the way that so many White Americans can. Ignorance and misunderstanding of our own history have served as a limitation on what we can achieve. We have internalized generations of doubt and fears about who we are as a people and what we can accomplish, just as White racists wanted us to do. And we continue to pay a terrible price for this.
Carter G. Woodson, the father of African-American history, famously wrote that a people cannot determine their future if they are ignorant of their past. This is why Malcolm Little took as his surname the letter "X"--which marked the hidden past of our people back through slavery to Africa, the past that racists sought to deny us. Malcolm wanted that "X" to serve as a constant reminder that it was our people's mission to fill in the blank slate that was the African-American collective past, the details of which, down to our family trees and our individual tribal origins, had been robbed or hidden from us. I believe that this is as true and necessary today as it has ever been, especially given our high school drop-out and teen-pregnancy rates.

Fortunately, something magical is happening in the African-American community today: Many of us are now using genealogy to trace our family trees on this side of the Atlantic, back deep into slavery. And then, when the paper trail ends and we have exhausted our sources, we are starting to look at something that our ancestors from Africa brought with them that not even the slave trade could take away: their distinctive strands of DNA. Because their DNA has been passed down to us-their direct descendants-it can serve as a key to unlocking our African past.
With cells collected from the insides of our mouths, geneticists can analyze small sections of our genetic material that form distinctive sequences known as "haplotypes," which can then be compared to DNA samples taken from people on the African continent. The process is a bit like matching fingerprints on CSI. A match between our DNA and the DNA from a person from Africa means that we have possibly found someone with whom we share a common ancestor, someone from our same "tribe"-be it Igbo or Yoruba, Fulani or Mende. Such a match can reveal an ethnic identity that has been lost for centuries, since the dreadful Middle Passage.
I would urge anyone who is interested to try and trace their family back to Africa, through genealogical research and DNA testing. There are several tests available, and each is surprisingly inexpensive, often less than a pair of designer sneakers. The test you choose to take depends on whether you are male or female, how much you can afford and what you want to find out. For example, to learn something about your father's line (if you are a male) or your mother's ancestral line (if you are male or female), you can take a lineage test. This test analyzes small portions of DNA that are passed down, virtually unchanged (like a genetic fingerprint), from father to son, and mother to child. Because these small sections of your DNA do not recombine from one generation to the next, they become "markers of descent," which scientists use to determine ancestry shared by a group, such as a tribe or an ethnic group. We have all heard of "paternity tests." Well, in a similar way, these single-marker tests can solve genealogical mysteries by verifying if two individuals are related. When tracing your African tribal ancestry, they can also suggest your ancestral origins back to Africa, telling you where your female ancestors or your male ancestors originated-long before they were captured as slaves.

Keep in mind that this process is still in its infancy. The available DNA data is not by any means complete, and these tests will not yield the names of any of the individuals on our distant family trees-just the general geographic areas in which our ancestors lived. Sometimes the tests yield multiple exact tribal matches, making it necessary for historians to interpret the most plausible result. AfricanDNA.com, which I co-founded with FamilyTreeDNA, offers this service. And sometimes you will discover that your DNA can be traced to a White ancestor, especially on your father's side, because some masters raped their female slaves. About 30 percent of us have White male ancestors.
Yet learning even these bare facts can be enormously satisfying. Receiving the results in the mail, and sharing them with your family and friends, is one of the most exciting experiences an African-American can have. I know it has been for me, and for my friends such as Oprah Winfrey and Chris Tucker, who appeared in my PBS program, African American Lives (part two in the series appears on PBS in February).
Of course, it can be painful. When one discovers the identity of an ancestor who lived as a slave, one necessarily is forced to relive the brutal details of the slave past, a past that our ancestors experienced not as we do through history books or films, but in their everyday lives. But I believe we must get past this pain. If we want to go forward as a people, we need to be able to understand where we came from. We need to get ourselves grounded, and the process starts by grounding ourselves in our own family's extended past, our own genealogical "invisible network," like that cell phone ad says. This process is so nourishing because it can enable a person to feel the inimitable sense of connection, of belonging that can only be found by unearthing the branches of your family tree, your very own roots, roots that extend back through the slave past directly into the verdant soil of Africa.

natina

05-22-2012, 10:31 AM

natina

05-22-2012, 10:34 AM

by Falrune

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:08 am

Race is an old concept that should probably be discarded. It was

created by people who had a very limited knowledge of their world. If you

look at any genetic map (mitochondrial or Y chromosome DNA), you can

see there is no biological basis for the idea of a white or black or asian

race.

Here's a nice map

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/)

natina

05-22-2012, 10:38 AM

rosa parks was a racist who hates white bus drivers

rosa parks was a racist who hates white bus drivers

something rush limbaugh,glenn beck,sarah palin........ would say

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/E/c/3/glenn-beck-60s.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kC5MT2r5U8s/TFMUTTHOABI/AAAAAAAAPzw/8XmyhoGV7KE/s1600/55rosa+parks+arrest.jpg)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tx/gallery/media/rosa_parks_405.jpg

http://e-portals.org/Parks/rosa1.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Rosaparks.jpg/220px-Rosaparks.jpg

natina

05-22-2012, 10:39 AM

Why racism doesn’t die

This country is famous for one of the most organized and inspiring nonviolent movements in modern history. It unfolded sixty years ago in the aftermath of the Holocaust in Europe and focused on the racism that was an unresolved legacy of the Civil War. It was brilliant, but sadly, not enough.
Last week in Mississippi, Deryl Dedmon, Jr. and John Aaron Rice, along with a group of ‘psyched up’ white teens, left a party with the intention of finding an African American to ‘mess with.’ Driving sixteen miles to the other side of town they set upon the first man they saw—James Craig Anderson—and beat him viciously. Eighteen-year-old Dedmon, now charged with murder, stayed behind long enough to run Anderson over with his truck and leave him for dead (http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/06/mississippi.hate.crime/). To top it off, his lawyer went beyond human decency to protect his client, insisting that it was not a racially motivated crime.
Maybe, on some level, it’s a positive sign that we do not want to admit that there is still racism in this country, despite the experience of people living in James Craig Anderson’s community, immigrant families in Arizona, farmworkers in California, or sleeping children in Afghanistan. But denial isn’t going to make the problem go away. What will make it finally go away is a recognition that racially motivated crimes have a cause and that we can get to it by shifting our awareness from hate crimes to just simply hate.
Unfortunately, our country takes the opposite route: from hate crime to crime, leaving us with a cycle of retribution and injustice that will never solve the problem. Racism is a form of violence and it isn’t going away until we repudiate violence itself. We demand that our political leaders be “tough on crime,” but forget to ask ourselves, where are the candidates who are “tough on hatred, tough on violence”?
One needn’t look far, then, to see one critical reason why racism doesn’t die—a reason that we ignore only because so many of us are numbed into insensitivity by its sheer familiarity. We ourselves saw a shocking example the other day on the main street of liberal Berkeley: a graphic poster for a popular television program with the bold message, “LET’S GO KILL SOMETHING.”
Coming as it did right after the very real murder in Mississippi, the echo was sickening. It isn’t just the message that violence is fun, but the enabling denial that makes violence possible, which is dehumanization: you cannot kill something, of course, but someone, some form of life.
There is something we can do, however, if politicians will not: we can start turning our backs on violence as a form of “entertainment.” In one recent study (http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/kind_kids1/) carried out at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig it was shown that children were three times more likely to behave with empathy if they were shown a picture of two dolls in a friendly pose than if the doll images were negative or neutral. There are so many studies now showing our sensitivity to this “priming,” as scientists call it, that the effect is something we can no longer deny but on the contrary can take responsibility for and use it as a lever for pushing back against, and eventually perhaps banishing the violence that’s become endemic in the industrial world.
“Mind precedes action” as the Buddha said, and getting extremely dehumanizing images—the constant fare of our films, books, and video games—out of our minds is the point of leverage from which to start getting real or physical violence out of our lives. Right now we are relying on violence for “security” in everything from individual bullying to criminal “justice” and finally war. It will be a long struggle to rebuild every one of those behaviors and institutions, but that struggle can’t even begin until we detoxify our mental environment and let our native capacity for empathy —which science has recently shown to be well ‘wired’ in our very nervous systems (http://wagingnonviolence.org/2010/02/ramachandran-explains-gandhi-neurons/)—regain the upper hand.
One advantage of starting this by boycott of violent media is that it doesn’t need to be organized; we can just do it, and we should not overlook the power of even one mind that is concentrated and backed by positive energy. From there, of course, by educating and organizing we can start growing the change into a real movement. Many individuals and many families have borne witness to the healthier, sometimes deeply happier lives they enjoyed soon after they stopped watching television. Once the initial feeling of deprivation subsided, their taste for reality (which violence is not) came back into their lives. Pointing this out and experiencing it will add drive to this key campaign that is surely a sine qua non for racial justice. For this reform cannot take place in a vacuum because as Martin Luther King said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Nor can it take place on the political or even the social level alone because it’s by now too deeply rooted in how some people think and see the world.
Not all media need be renounced, however. One recent attempt to portray at least part of the other side is the film Help, which illustrates what the famous Norwegian peace researcher Johan Galtung has called the “Great Chain of Nonviolence,” where oppressed, voiceless people—in this case black domestic workers in the south—link up by a chain of relationships to people in power, in this case through friendships that naturally form with the white women they work for. Help is an indifferent success, however; some reviewers have felt it was sappy at best and racist at worst due to the depiction of black men as abusive, alcoholic and illiterate. It may only help to confirm the belief that violence is real (the graphic effect of the “Let’s go kill something” vampire genre), whereas love and nonviolence are only weak and uninteresting imitations.
Much better is a 1989 film, The Long Walk Home, with Whoopi Goldberg, Cissy Spacek, and Dwight Macdonald. It not only stares racism in the face, but it is also one of the few films in history to show an actual representation of nonviolence working against a fierce opponent—something even Attenborough’s Gandhi, for all its sophistication, did not quite do. In the climactic final scene a group of terrified black women penned in by a chanting racist mob conquer their fear by singing a pertinent spiritual and walk unhindered through the confused men trying to stop them. This is realism: many scenes like it actually took place in the Civil Rights movement and elsewhere..
With the likes of Gandhi, The Long Walk Home, or the 1995 political drama Beyond Rangoon we could “reprime” our lives. When we run out of such films—and Lord knows they are rare—we can spend time with friends and family that we would otherwise have spent watching someone else’s idea of entertainment. As Gandhi once said, evil does not exist: it can only make its appearance as long as we cling to it. Why not put that to the test by not clinging to images of violence?

http://wagingnonviolence.org/2011/08...sm-doesnt-die/ (http://wagingnonviolence.org/2011/08/why-racism-doesnt-die/)

http://wagingnonviolence.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/293730153_dea4157ccb_z.jpg

Attached Images:
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=419783&stc=1&d=1315532606

hard4janira

05-22-2012, 07:57 PM

The core issue that is at the heart of the Florida case is the process of the law -the meaning and value of that state's 'Stand your ground' law; ....

What about the white man in Samford, FL who was attacked by two black racists with a hammer and beaten to within an inch of his life (he may have died from his injuries, I do not know). Should the stand your ground law be available for him or should he have to suffer through a hammer attack?

What about the two asian grad students at USC who were executed by racist black males while sitting in a parked car? Sureley a stand your ground law may have helped them (or may help others in the future). Why should people be forced to be victims to the atrocities committed on them by racist black people? Why? I don't want to die because I'm being attacked by somebody with a hammer. I want to be able to shoot them and I want the law to be on my side.

giovanni_hotel

05-22-2012, 08:14 PM

What about the white man in Samford, FL who was attacked by two black racists with a hammer and beaten to within an inch of his life (he may have died from his injuries, I do not know). Should the stand your ground law be available for him or should he have to suffer through a hammer attack?

What about the two asian grad students at USC who were executed by racist black males while sitting in a parked car? Sureley a stand your ground law may have helped them (or may help others in the future). Why should people be forced to be victims to the atrocities committed on them by racist black people? Why? I don't want to die because I'm being attacked by somebody with a hammer. I want to be able to shoot them and I want the law to be on my side.

Fine, but the law is still flawed.
THe fact that someone like Zimmerman was initially protected by SYG because only he alone is able to interpret his intent should tell you that.

Was it ever against the law to defend one's self with the use of deadly force when being attacked before SYG?? I don't think so.

It's ironic you are trumpeting the equitable use of hate crime laws when the victim isn't Black since most conservatives believe hate crime laws are redundant and unnecessary.

We still don't know the motive behind the murder of the USC grad students. If it was gang related, it may have had more to with a gangbanger earning his spot in a crew and his choosing what appeared to be easy targets. I also thought they were robbed. It could have been a failed car jacking.

To say because the victims were Chinese and the attackers allegedly Black doesn't make it by definition a hate crime.

And since when did a debate about SYG become a discussion about protecting yourself against racist Blacks?? Huh??

SYG in theory should not have a racial component to it at all. I don't know why you're defending it using those parameters.

hard4janira

05-22-2012, 11:42 PM

Fine, but the law is still flawed.
THe fact that someone like Zimmerman was initially protected by SYG because only he alone is able to interpret his intent should tell you that.

Was it ever against the law to defend one's self with the use of deadly force when being attacked before SYG?? I don't think so.

It depends on the case. There are many cases of people being charged with homicide while defending themselves. I think that was the point of SYG.. to leverage an existing SCOTUS ruling as framework for state laws that would protect those who defended themselves.

It's ironic you are trumpeting the equitable use of hate crime laws when the victim isn't Black since most conservatives believe hate crime laws are redundant and unnecessary.

They are unnecessary IMO. However, if you're going to have a hate crime law then it should apply equally to all people, not just against white people. That's unconstitutional. The purpose of hate crime legistlation isn't to punish hate crimes, it's to find an excuse to add more charges to white people who commit crimes against minorities. But to your point yes - I think hate crime legislation is largely unnecessary and unconstitutional in how it is enforced.

We still don't know the motive behind the murder of the USC grad students. If it was gang related, it may have had more to with a gangbanger earning his spot in a crew and his choosing what appeared to be easy targets. I also thought they were robbed. It could have been a failed car jacking.

To say because the victims were Chinese and the attackers allegedly Black doesn't make it by definition a hate crime.

Trust me I get it... The only people who will ever be charged with 'hate crimes' are white people who commit crimes against minorites. Look, I happen to be saying something that nobody either has the balls or intelligence to say: Black people are human beings and they are JUST as likeley to be as racist and hateful as any other person of any other race. Anybody who can't grasp that concept has zero understanding of human nature. It's an insult to my intelligece to ignore racism and the possibilty of hate crimes when blacks commit crimes BUT IT IS LARGELY IGNORED BY THE MEDIA AND CERTAINLY BY MEMBERS OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY AT LARGE. How come I only hear people squealing about hate crimes and racism is when a white person is involved? Hell, Zimmerman wasn't even charged with a crime and I don't think he should be simply because black people feel that Martin was 'profiled'.

And since when did a debate about SYG become a discussion about protecting yourself against racist Blacks?? Huh??
SYG in theory should not have a racial component to it at all. I don't know why you're defending it using those parameters.

I'm calling out the hypocrisy of blacks and minorities that insisting that Zimmerman be charged with a hate crime when I see racist blacks commiting hate crimes all the time and nobody says anything. Just calling out bullshit when I see it.

Queens Guy

05-23-2012, 02:32 AM

natina

05-23-2012, 04:41 AM

BREAKING news:4 zimmerman witnesses change story
Newspaper: 4 witnesses change stories in Trayvon Martin shooting
At least four key witnesses have changed their stories about what they saw the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., the Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday.
the report comes after state prosecutors released about half the evidence they have in their second-degree murder case against Zimmerman.
The witnesses, known publicly only by numbers, first talked to Sanford police and later to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and state prosecutors.
Witness 2: A young woman from the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Martin, 17, was shot Feb. 26, first told investigators she saw two men running and a fist fight. She later said she only saw one person running and couldn’t distinguish much because she had removed her contact lenses.
Witness 12: A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.
Witness 13: A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because “he was beating up on me,” and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was “nothing.”
Witness 6: A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.
Earlier: Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 04:48 AM

giovanni, just out of curiosity, since this board has members from all over the world, where are you from? I live in New York City. I ask because different parts of the world view the use of force differently.

Now, to give my view to your questions. The SYG law may or may not be flawed on it's own. Remember, the detective from Sanford P.D. felt that SYG did not protect GZ. The Prosecutor said it did.

Was it ever against the law to defend oneself with the use of deadly force?

Yes. And in some States, it still is. In many States in the US. Which is why Castle Rule laws were passed. They are SYG only for your home. Some states, like NY are known as 'duty to flee' States because everybody, even a homeowner, has the duty to do everything they can, including running our of their own home, to avoid using deadly force. Castle Rule and SYG laws were passed because the public disagreed with the arrest and conviction of so many people they felt were wrongly convicted, that the new laws were passed.

I live just outside D.C. in Northern Va. Where all the gun lovers buy their toys with the most lax background checks in the country. I don't care what anybody says, it's unnerving to see a hayseed walk into the grocery store with I kid you not, a silverplated .357 revolver in a holster attached on the hip of his jeans.
It's the ability for someone to decide on their own they felt their life was being threatened without any investigative review by law enforcement that IMO makes the law flawed.

natina

05-23-2012, 04:51 AM

THE TOPIC NOW IS 4 ZIMMERMAN WITNESSES CHANGE THERE STORY

MORE IN SUPPPORT OF TRAYVON MARTIN

what do you think?

article below

BREAKING news:4 zimmerman witnesses change story
Newspaper: 4 witnesses change stories in Trayvon Martin shooting
At least four key witnesses have changed their stories about what they saw the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., the Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday.
the report comes after state prosecutors released about half the evidence they have in their second-degree murder case against Zimmerman.
The witnesses, known publicly only by numbers, first talked to Sanford police and later to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and state prosecutors.
Witness 2: A young woman from the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Martin, 17, was shot Feb. 26, first told investigators she saw two men running and a fist fight. She later said she only saw one person running and couldn’t distinguish much because she had removed her contact lenses.
Witness 12: A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.
Witness 13: A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because “he was beating up on me,” and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was “nothing.”
Witness 6: A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.
Earlier: Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman'

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 05:10 AM

Not surprised about the witness recants. Goes to the point there may not have been any witnesses to definitively report what happened that night between George and Trayvon.

buds

05-23-2012, 05:19 AM

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 05:23 AM

If they were for real I would bet they were probably threatened. Happens a lot when they have to tell their name in puplic. odds are they justy made up shit to get on the news anyway

But i know you all will spin it to fit your needs

Early reports were that witnesses were being coached on what they were supposed to say they saw that night.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 05:25 AM

Early reports were that witnesses were being coached on what they were supposed to say they saw that night.

All witnesses are coached, wether they are called to testify on behalf of the defense or the plaintiff. Fact.

fastingforlife

05-23-2012, 05:26 AM

I was a witness to a murder, back in 1973. The most important thing I learned from that experience, was to never speak to the police. Unquestionably, it ranks as one of the biggest mistakes in my life. If the police come knocking now, my lips stay sealed.

buds

05-23-2012, 05:27 AM

Early reports were that witnesses were being coached on what they were supposed to say they saw that night.

Its all bull shit till the verdict is in. There are so many *facts* this case is doomed anyway.

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 05:30 AM

All witnesses are coached, wether they are called to testify on behalf of the defense or the plaintiff. Fact.

Cops aren't supposed to 'coach' witnesses. That's criminal misconduct.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 05:36 AM

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 05:41 AM

Who said the cops coached them? And why would the cops be coaching them if the witnesses are being called by the prosecution? If the witnesses are being called by the defense then I'd be pretty sure that the defense attorney can take care of his own shit without the cops being involved. Hell, the defense attorney is probably coaching the cops. Why would the cops be coaching anybody when they can't bring anybody to trial or call witness or whatever.... doesn't make any sense.

The mother of the boy who was walking his dog and saw the fight between George and Trayvon, said a detective came by their condo months ago right after the murder and coached her son on what color jacket Zimmerman was wearing and who was on top of whom, when the boy had already told the officer it was too dark for him to see those kinds of details.

This is before the state prosecutor took on the case.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 05:52 AM

The mother of the boy who was walking his dog and saw the fight between George and Trayvon, said a detective came by their condo months ago right after the murder and coached her son on what color jacket Zimmerman was wearing and who was on top of whom, when the boy had already told the officer it was too dark for him to see those kinds of details.

This is before the state prosecutor took on the case.

Well that witness will get a chance to testify under oath and clear up any misunderstanding.

And why do you keep saying 'murder' ? Are you privy to facts that we aren't or is your mind just made up?

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 05:59 AM

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:12 AM

I call it a murder because I'm not a judge or attorney.
In the real world, when you kill an unarmed teen smaller than you because you were fighting in altercation you could have avoided, where I'm from they call it murder.

Keep sticking up for you boy, though. Just minding his own business and this magical negro falls out of the sky with a machete, about to decapitate Zimmerman AND take his pistol, until lucky George reluctantly shot him to save his own pitiful life.

GTFOH with that BS.

It was murder.

"Where I'm from they call it murder..." lol. If Zimmerman wanted to murder Travon why bother with all of the rough stuff? Why bother with getting your head smacked into the ground and a broken nose? I'd say Zimmerman isn't very good at executing a murder (please pardon the pun) if that was what he was really after. If you're going to murder somebody then murder them.

My guess is Zimmerman (unwisely) confronted Martin about his actions (skittles and tea my fucking ass). Martin got defensive and then aggressive. A fight ensued, one where Martin was getting the better of Zimmerman (age and weight doesn't have anything to do with who is a better figher). Zimmerman probably then pulled out his gun and shot Martin.

Avoidable? Yes. Unfortunate? Yes. Murder? Highly, highly unlikely. Manslaugher? Perhaps...

Zimmerman isn't my 'boy', but Travon should't be anybodies boy either. Quit painting him out to be some kind of innocent choir-boy. The kid was a punk and he was heading down the wrong path. That doesn't mean he 'deserved' to die that day but enough already with the act.

natina

05-23-2012, 06:24 AM

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:59 AM

TEACHER RECALLS TRAVON MARTIN

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

TEACHER RECALLS TRAVON MARTIN ;TRAVON MARTIN A's & B's in class (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html)

Lol, this is a quote from the article...

Trayvon was 6-foot-3, 140 pounds, a former Optimist League football player with a narrow frame and a voracious appetite. He wanted to fly or fix planes, struggled in chemistry, loved sports video games and went to New York for the first time two summers ago, seeing the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty and a Broadway musical, The Addams Family. He hoped to attend the University of Miami or Florida A&M University, enamored by both schools’ bright orange and green hues.

That's how I picked my college. I picked the one whose colors I was enamored with. But there's more.....

Also known as “Slimm”, he had a girlfriend and spent endless hours talking or texting on his cell phone. Other times he was quiet, listening to the soundtrack of R&B, reggae, rap and gospel music flowing through his ear buds or watching half-hour re-runs of Martin, his favorite show.

It doesn't sound like he spent endless hours studying, which is what you typically need to do to get A's and B's (trust me on this one). Let's continue..

“He was doing average in school, a little bit better when he was at Carol City and then I had him transferred,’’ she said this week. “I thought Krop was a better school and I wanted a different environment for him. My oldest son has graduated from there.’’

Average is not A's and B's. Average is C.

Math was his favorite subject, according to one of his Carol City teachers, Ashley Gantt . She taught his sophomore year English honors class where the curriculum included works such as T he Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

If Math was his favorite subject why would he struggle with Chemistry? Doesn't make sense....Plus, if you're an average student what are you doing in English honors class? Doesn't make sense...

“He was just a sweet kid, she said. “He got As and Bs. If he received a C on an assignment, it was because he was just being a kid that day. He was very smart.”

Contradictions, contradictions. Previously the article said he was an average student who struggled with Chemistry. Now we learn that he was very smart and got As and Bs, and favored Math and took English honors classes.

Students at Carol City, some who now wear Trayvon memorial buttons, have compared his death to that of Emmett Till, the 14-year-old African-American boy from Chicago, who went to visit family in Mississippi and never returned. Emmett Till was pulled from his bed, beaten to death and dumped in a river for allegedly whistling at a white woman, one of the nation’s most famous civil rights cases.

Umm...no, the two cases are absolutely nothing alike. How do people come up with this shit? I'm calling bullshit on this and on the stupid people who work at and/or go to this school.

For Gantt, Trayvon’s death has become a teachable moment, telling her students: “You have to know what your rights are. You can wear a hoodie and walk into a gated community … you have the right to do that and not be profiled.”
He wants people to know something about his childhood friend: “He wasn’t threatening. There was no reason for George Zimmerman to pull out a gun and kill him. He was too peaceful for that.”

Why would Zimmerman beat himself up then? Just so he had an excuse to shoot Travon? Seems to be an awful lot of trouble to go through in order to have an excuse to shoot somebody. And while this article deliberately tries to paint Travon in a positive light, any reporter coudl equally do so of Zimmerman by interviewing people who know him as character witnesses. Of course they would all say "Zimmerman would never shoot somebody without reason" and "Zimmerman was a good man who never went out of his way to find trouble"... It's so easy it shouldn't even be called reporting. It should be called "any moron can write an article that will make one side of the story look better than the other". Which side of the story do you think the Miami Herald is going to come down on? Seriously...

Stavros

05-23-2012, 09:11 AM

natina

05-23-2012, 09:47 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#George_Zimmerman

Willie Escalade

05-23-2012, 09:54 AM

146 pages...of something non-TS related. I never thought I'd see that day...

Queens Guy

05-23-2012, 02:06 PM

Trayvon Martin is not on trial, how he performed in school and whether or not this teenager preferred listening to music rather than reading Einstein is also not relevant, but it says a lot about your own mind set that instead of focusing on the act that ended his life and the role played by Florida law and law enforcement, you have a burning need to blame the victim. So, Professor, what were you doing when you were a teenager?

Trayvon Martin is on trial. Because there are no witnesses who saw the start of the fight. The prosecution and the defense are both going to try and show the state of mind of GZ and TM to paint a picture of what might have happened during those missing two minutes that aren't on tape.

And that's not unusual at all in any murder trial. State of mind is what makes the difference between murder and manslaughter. And what makes the difference between a crime and self-defense.

Both of their facebook pages will come into evidence. Both of their disciplinary/criminal histories will come into evidence. Etc. It's standard operating procedure in a murder trial.

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 02:51 PM

"Where I'm from they call it murder..." lol. If Zimmerman wanted to murder Travon why bother with all of the rough stuff? Why bother with getting your head smacked into the ground and a broken nose? I'd say Zimmerman isn't very good at executing a murder (please pardon the pun) if that was what he was really after. If you're going to murder somebody then murder them.

My guess is Zimmerman (unwisely) confronted Martin about his actions (skittles and tea my fucking ass). Martin got defensive and then aggressive. A fight ensued, one where Martin was getting the better of Zimmerman (age and weight doesn't have anything to do with who is a better figher). Zimmerman probably then pulled out his gun and shot Martin.

Avoidable? Yes. Unfortunate? Yes. Murder? Highly, highly unlikely. Manslaugher? Perhaps...

Zimmerman isn't my 'boy', but Travon should't be anybodies boy either. Quit painting him out to be some kind of innocent choir-boy. The kid was a punk and he was heading down the wrong path. That doesn't mean he 'deserved' to die that day but enough already with the act.

This is what you don't get. We beef online and you talk a lot of mad shit coming off like an interwebz Charles Bronson, but here's the thing; if both you and I were walking down opposite sides of the sidewalk at night IRL, me wearing shades and a ski cap, you dressed however but packing concealed, THERE WOULD BE VIRTUALLY NO CHANCE THAT THERE WOULD BE A VIOLENT CONFRONTATION BETWEEN US.

You don't know me, I don't know you. But it's doubtful you would all of sudden turn around and start following me back to my car and start interrogating me about who I was/what I was doing here, etc. Also because I wouldn't answer you. And it's very unlikely I would jump you for the hell of it if you kept walking past me without saying a word.

When two people are exercising their lawful right to walk the fucking streets, and some nobody asshole takes it upon himself to question that right, whatever happens after the fact is the fault of the person who initiates a confrontation.

George may have been within his rights to question Trayvon, however Trayvon was within his right to think I'm not saying shit to this asshole because he has not legal authority to question me.

Anyway you wanna cut this, Zimmerman is at fault.
As for the state prosecutor taking on this case, I think she has broader sentencing discretion than only a 2nd degree murder conviction. I too think the most likely outcome is a manslaughter conviction not knowing all the evidence she's going to present at trial.

Just remember manslaughter is a legal term of art; it's based on how successful a case is argued in court and how persuaded the jury is.

You can convicted of manslaughter and still be guilty of murder.
George Zimmerman murdered that kid for no good damn reason, other than the fact that George was scared of a bloody nose.

No, Zimmerman was scared at first, then he got ANGRY. And when his anger took over, he shot Trayvon dead at point blank range all because George Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious. Every assumption he made was wrong in this incident. Nothing Zimmerman did was justified in the least.

Sorry, but that poco loco is a murderer.

Stavros

05-23-2012, 03:15 PM

Trayvon Martin is on trial. Because there are no witnesses who saw the start of the fight. The prosecution and the defense are both going to try and show the state of mind of GZ and TM to paint a picture of what might have happened during those missing two minutes that aren't on tape.

And that's not unusual at all in any murder trial. State of mind is what makes the difference between murder and manslaughter. And what makes the difference between a crime and self-defense.

Both of their facebook pages will come into evidence. Both of their disciplinary/criminal histories will come into evidence. Etc. It's standard operating procedure in a murder trial.

In a way I see your point; in the UK Zimmerman's previous record, if he had one, would not be admissable evidence in court, he can only be tried on the event that happened which led to Martin's death; I think Martin's past however could be evidence. In past cases, where for example a woman has killed an abusive husband, the evidence against the murdered person is crucial to explain why the woman committted the act. It could be that he was her 4th husband and she killed the other three, but the court would not know that. I don't know if Zimmerman's past is protected in a Florida court in this way. What I find depressing is that people have decided they know what kind of teenager Trayvon Martin was, without ever having met him, and judging him on something superficial like facebook. If his character is on trial, I assume the defence will therefore call character witnesses. But for people on Hungangels to set themselves up as psychologists I think weakens the argument, since we still do not have a definitive account of what happened that night and may never have one that satisfied everyone.

fastingforlife

05-23-2012, 05:34 PM

[QUOTE=Willie Escalade;1145781]146 pages...of something non-TS related. I never thought I'd see that day...[/QUOTe

The reason this has become such a popular topic, is due to the media, trying its best to make this a white on black crime. Well, Zimmerman may be a white hispanic, but he doesn't look like any white guy I know. Remember, if you call Zimmerman white, than you must call President Obama white, as they both have one white parent. So, would this still be a story, if Zimmerman had two hispanic parents ? I am almost certain, it would not.

Another point, if all races are genetically equal, then there doesn't serve any purpose to distinguish people by race. The public needs to revolt against any goverment agency or private organization recording anyone's race. It should be illegal. Like religion, race is just a means to separate us....divide, conquer and control the human spirit. If anyone knows any organizations trying to remove racial categories from our lives, I would like to know about it.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:11 PM

Trayvon Martin is not on trial, how he performed in school and whether or not this teenager preferred listening to music rather than reading Einstein is also not relevant, but it says a lot about your own mind set that instead of focusing on the act that ended his life and the role played by Florida law and law enforcement, you have a burning need to blame the victim. So, Professor, what were you doing when you were a teenager?

Then why does the Miami Herald feel the need to write an article espousing all of these (somewhat contradictory) details about Travon Martin then? Why is the media also trying to dig up irrelevent stuff from Zimmermans past? I'll tell you why: The media and the general public are quite content conducting the trial right here, right now outside of the courtroom. Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't write that meaningless, irrelevant story.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:16 PM

What I find depressing is that people have decided they know what kind of teenager Trayvon Martin was, without ever having met him, and judging him on something superficial like facebook.

Dude, what do you think a jury is going to have to do? Why is that depressig? Seems that this would be the case in any trial where one person was killed.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:33 PM

This is what you don't get. We beef online and you talk a lot of mad shit coming off like an interwebz Charles Bronson,

You've completely mischaraterized me but that's fine. All I've ever done is mention the utter hypocirsy in the media and general public regarding racism and hate crimes. I'm sick to death of black people getting a pass on racism and hate crimes in the media while stories like Zimmerman and blown way out of proportion and are used by the media as examples of how black people are somehow victims when the real facts are that black people are leaving a vile and brutal path of destruction in thier wake. You can't fool me. All the media lies in the world can't fool me. I know what's happening.

but here's the thing; if both you and I were walking down opposite sides of the sidewalk at night IRL, me wearing shades and a ski cap, you dressed however but packing concealed, THERE WOULD BE VIRTUALLY NO CHANCE THAT THERE WOULD BE A VIOLENT CONFRONTATION BETWEEN US.

That's probalby true, but then Zimmerman was living in a community that was increasingly becomign a hotbed of criminal activity. And who do you think was committing a disproprotionate amount of crime in that community? Black people of course. If I lived in a community where there was a lot of crime commited by black people I would be FAR more suspicios of you walking down the street in a hoodie than I would be out in the general public or in a community where there was little or no crime. That's just human nature. I'm still astonished as to why black people are indignant about racial profiling. It's almost comical actually. Don't want to be profiled? How about get your shit together and stop commiting crimes... Holy fuck do we really have to have this conversation?

When two people are exercising their lawful right to walk the fucking streets, and some nobody asshole takes it upon himself to question that right, whatever happens after the fact is the fault of the person who initiates a confrontation.

Not necessarily. You may not like the way somebody is talking to you and you are not obligated to respond or answer questions but you certainly don't have the right to assault someobody if they have caused you no physical harm. A verbal confrontation is not illegal and that does not give somebody a right to initiate a physical confrontation (no matter how angry you are).

George may have been within his rights to question Trayvon, however Trayvon was within his right to think I'm not saying shit to this asshole because he has not legal authority to question me.

Agreed.

Anyway you wanna cut this, Zimmerman is at fault.As for the state prosecutor taking on this case, I think she has broader sentencing discretion than only a 2nd degree murder conviction. I too think the most likely outcome is a manslaughter conviction not knowing all the evidence she's going to present at trial.

Zimmerman may have acted unwisely (i.e. following Travon when the dispatcher advised him not to) but that doesn't make him at fault because it isn't illegal. Even if Zimmerman confronted him and they exhanged words, that isn't illegal either and therefore the question of 'fault' is completely irrelevant. The only question that matters is who initiated the physical altercation (that is illegal) and was Zimmerman justified in pulling the trigger? That's all that should matter.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 06:36 PM

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 07:03 PM

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 07:23 PM

Somewhat off topic but amusing nonetheless...

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/485703_399430013429639_203859196320056_1103892_731 200861_n.jpg

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 07:26 PM

Getting pulled over by cops for driving while Black is not a rational act. It's racist.

Lol, find me ONE police report that says "I pulled the suspect over because he was black..."

Good luck with that.

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 07:29 PM

Somewhat off topic but amusing nonetheless...

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/485703_399430013429639_203859196320056_1103892_731 200861_n.jpg

BOTH would look more like his son.
Are you serious, or is one of them Chinese??

AmyDaly

05-23-2012, 07:38 PM

Racial profiling assumes for instance ANY Black person is potentially involved in illegal behavior. It's not typical profiling where law enforcement is tracking a fugitive suspect who's just committed a crime and fits a specific physical profile.

Getting pulled over by cops for driving while Black is not a rational act. It's racist.

I am not one who buys in to this whole everything is racist excuse that we hear these days, but I think its absolutely true that police profile black people. Same with Latinos. I don't think its right to racially profile, but I can see why they do it. Look at how supportive the black community was of profiling Arabs at the airport though. Why were they supportive? Because its pretty much only been Arabs hijacking and trying to blow up planes. I am not saying that all blacks and latinos are worthy of being profiled, but most of the gang activity that happens in this country involves black and Latino gangs. Just like most of the terrorism that has happened has came from Arabs. If you are dressing or acting like the stereotype of a black or Latino gang member, you are likely to get harassed. Just like when you see an Arab with a turban at the airport, everyone is going to profile them. Same thing goes here with the cops and profiling blacks and latinos. I am not trying to justify it. I am just saying that I think this is why it happens.

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 08:12 PM

BOTH would look more like his son.
Are you serious, or is one of them Chinese??

I damn well know the Prez wouldn't raise a kid that would go to Airborne school. I can guarantee you of that.

Stavros

05-23-2012, 08:37 PM

Dude, what do you think a jury is going to have to do? Why is that depressig? Seems that this would be the case in any trial where one person was killed.

The jury has to listen to the evidence presented in court about the events that happened that night, it has no business listening to allegations about Zimmerman's or Martin's past. I would have thought this an elementary part of the law in the US as it is in the UK. You and other posters are making value judgements about people you have never met because it suits you to depict Trayvon Martin (or George Zimmerman) as in some way guilty, of whatever it is you think they are guilty of. Zimmerman, I assume, must prove that he believed his life was in danger in order for the 'Stand Your Ground' law to be met. What he or Martin did before that night is irrelevant.

Queens Guy

05-23-2012, 08:39 PM

In a way I see your point; in the UK Zimmerman's previous record, if he had one, would not be admissable evidence in court, he can only be tried on the event that happened which led to Martin's death; I think Martin's past however could be evidence. In past cases, where for example a woman has killed an abusive husband, the evidence against the murdered person is crucial to explain why the woman committted the act. It could be that he was her 4th husband and she killed the other three, but the court would not know that. I don't know if Zimmerman's past is protected in a Florida court in this way. What I find depressing is that people have decided they know what kind of teenager Trayvon Martin was, without ever having met him, and judging him on something superficial like facebook. If his character is on trial, I assume the defence will therefore call character witnesses. But for people on Hungangels to set themselves up as psychologists I think weakens the argument, since we still do not have a definitive account of what happened that night and may never have one that satisfied everyone.

Stavros, I must stand corrected. You are right. Like the UK, prior criminal history is not admissible in US courts, either. Unless the defendant or his lawyer 'leaves the door open'. He certainly can't say 'I've never been in any kind of trouble before.', when he has been in trouble before. I'm not a trial attorney, by any means, but there might be a few more ways for the defense to 'leave the door open' for the other side to bring up the subject.

I think both sides will call character witnesses, and they will be cross-examined. All the eye and ear witnesses will be called to the stand, those that have recanted their previous statements and those who have haven't changed their stories. They'll get cross-examined, too.

I know which way I'm leaning in this case, but I know there may be evidence that can convince me to change my mind..

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 09:36 PM

The jury has to listen to the evidence presented in court about the events that happened that night, it has no business listening to allegations about Zimmerman's or Martin's past. I would have thought this an elementary part of the law in the US as it is in the UK. You and other posters are making value judgements about people you have never met because it suits you to depict Trayvon Martin (or George Zimmerman) as in some way guilty, of whatever it is you think they are guilty of. Zimmerman, I assume, must prove that he believed his life was in danger in order for the 'Stand Your Ground' law to be met. What he or Martin did before that night is irrelevant.

You're missing the point. You're point was that people shouldn't have to judge Martin because they've never had a chance to meet him. Well, a Jury is going to have to do exactly that. That was my only point.

And thank you for pointing out BOTH sides of the story. Whether you like it or not Zimmerman is being tried in the media over here. If you don't have ABC, NBC, CBS, or MSNBC then you won't know what I am talking about. ABC even doctored audiotape of Zimmerman in order to sway public opinion (the producer was fired). Now everybody is doing thier best to 'prove' that Zimmerman is some kind of racist because of things he said in a previous job. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to character assasinate Zimmerman then the same should be done to Martin. What people should be doing (but are not) is letting the legal system take it's course and a jury decide the outcome. But they're not.

InHouston

05-23-2012, 09:40 PM

THE TOPIC NOW IS 4 ZIMMERMAN WITNESSES CHANGE THERE STORY

MORE IN SUPPPORT OF TRAYVON MARTIN

what do you think?

article below

Why don't you stop posting this garbage? Zimmerman is not going to be convicted of murder. Our president, and our Attorney General pressured the prosecutor to bypass the Grand Jury who would have thrown this case out the moment it was presented to them, but neither of them have the last say on this matter. This whole thing is going to flop flat on its face in the end, and Zimmerman will walk. It was a fight, and stupid little 6'2" Treyvon lost. Tough shit, and fuck Treyvon if he wants to walk around in his community acting like a god-damned thug and jumping on a neighborhood watch captain. Neighborhood watch captain's are not illegal in this nation. Treyvon picked that fight, and he lost. His problem. Now he can push daisies from now on for acting like a dick.

InHouston

05-23-2012, 09:45 PM

I highlighted the facts for you,there in bold:iagree::wiggle::dancing:

Think of the Whitest person you know: someone with blond hair, blue eyes and almost translucent skin,

not a drop of Black ancestry in them. Now think of the darkest person you know: someone richly endowed

with traditional African features, not even a drop of White ancestry in their past. Well, guess what?

Scientists now trace the origins of both of these people-and of all human beings who have ever

walked the face of the earth-to Black Africa, to the region around what is now Ethiopia. As

Spencer Wells, the director of National Geographic's massive Genographic Project, puts it: "Our

species evolved in Africa, and a subset of Africans left that continent around 50,000 years ago to

populate the rest of the world. Our earliest ancestors probably looked very much like modern

Africans."

This would have been news to "Bull" Connor and Orval Faubus and countless other racists from our past. It is

also news to most of our

Yeah, and now I think of the blackest people in my neighborhood who walk around acting like complete shitheads to everyone around them; talking shit, lipping off to people, breaking into people's cars, committing home invasions, armed robberies, and on my police scanner the description always comes back as “black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male black male”

Even just last night while I was working, a black guy kidnapped a white woman at knife-point, put her in her car, and now no one knows what happened to that woman today. Just like Zimmerman said, “They always get away.”

InHouston

05-23-2012, 09:45 PM

hard4janira

05-23-2012, 09:46 PM

I am not one who buys in to this whole everything is racist excuse that we hear these days, but I think its absolutely true that police profile black people. Same with Latinos. I don't think its right to racially profile, but I can see why they do it. Look at how supportive the black community was of profiling Arabs at the airport though. Why were they supportive? Because its pretty much only been Arabs hijacking and trying to blow up planes. I am not saying that all blacks and latinos are worthy of being profiled, but most of the gang activity that happens in this country involves black and Latino gangs. Just like most of the terrorism that has happened has came from Arabs. If you are dressing or acting like the stereotype of a black or Latino gang member, you are likely to get harassed. Just like when you see an Arab with a turban at the airport, everyone is going to profile them. Same thing goes here with the cops and profiling blacks and latinos. I am not trying to justify it. I am just saying that I think this is why it happens.

I'll follow up on this. There absolutley, positively nothing wrong with profiling. Racial profiling is simply one aspect of it (age, gender, sexuality, religious backround, socioeconomic background are also considered when profiling).

I remember the Atlanta child murder case in Atlanta back in the 80's. A serial killer was plucking off black children in the inner city. Of course, profiling was relatively new at the time and nobody knew about it. Of course, all of the black leaders got in an uproar because they were just CONVINCED that the murders were racially motivated. Everybody was wound up tighter than a drum while the police and the media started looking for white supremacists who might be involved. Of course, the murders continued. Eventually, the FBI got involved and they brought profiling to the table. It didn't take long for the FBI to determine that the crimes were sexual in nature and that they were likely being commited by a black male.

Oh lord, you should have heard howls of indignation and protest when this information came to light. Naturally with the FBI's help they nabbed the perpetrator and the murders stopped.

Profiling (including racial profiling) is an extremely valuable and accurate technique of narrowing down a list of suspects. It should be used at every available opportunity.

InHouston

05-23-2012, 09:46 PM

InHouston

05-23-2012, 10:05 PM

InHouston

05-23-2012, 10:07 PM

And as far as Seanchai goes for starting this thread, he needs to shut his Irish cracker-ass up and stick to what he knows … like sucking dick for a living.

InHouston

05-23-2012, 10:22 PM

And on that note, I read the thread where Seanchai threatened to out someone to his wife who didn’t agree with him. Whoop – Tee – Doo, and that’s fucked up of you to do that! You know what Seanchai? Go lay on your back and kick your legs around and whine like the little Irish baby you are because someone didn’t agree with you, and you want white people in America to get along with the stupid niggers here; something you don’t have to deal with in Ireland. I’ve posted my opinions, my links to my YouTube Channel on my opinions, and you can email my wife all you want to if you can track her down. She likes Shemales. Fuck off Seanchai.

giovanni_hotel

05-23-2012, 11:06 PM

Didn't take InHouston long to generously drop the N-bomb.
Why am I not surprised???

FInd some other place to hang, dude. You're toxic.
http://i.imgur.com/d26wx.jpg
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4g2ndO7Lr1qebls2.png

GroobySteven

05-23-2012, 11:53 PM

Yeah he obviously didn't read the rules. He's went off the deep-end.
A long overdue ... BAN!

Jericho

05-24-2012, 12:23 AM

runningdownthatdream

05-24-2012, 02:50 AM

Didn't take InHouston long to generously drop the N-bomb.
Why am I not surprised???

FInd some other place to hang, dude. You're toxic.

it never does take them long.....the first sign is usually when they start by saying how non-racist they are. If a person has to declare that as a pillar then guess what - they're racists and bigots in denial. And that applies equally to people of ANY 'race'. I love turning those people out - quite satisfying to watch a person come face to face with their racism.

One of many episodes: I was at a party thrown by one of my 'Christian' relatives who had invited some of his fellow devout God-fearing, loving congregation. I ended up in a room with one of them (a West Indian of European descent) who kept talking about how much he loved my relative because that relative was a 'good' Christian and was civilized. Of course that piqued my interest :) within a half hour this wonderful Christian who loved everybody was ranting about Africa being full of primitives who had never built anything, discovered anything, invented anything, and had therefore contributed nothing to the modern world.

He believed all civilization originated in Greece - he'd never heard of Sumer, Mohenjo Daro, Harrappa, Namu, or even Ur (the city of his prophet Abraham). He'd never heard about the Stele of Hammurabi. He'd never heard of Mithra or Krishna and was shocked to history of his Christ paralleled theirs. He didn't know an Ethiopian king was part of the siege of Troy and didn't know that Troy was an Eastern city far greater than any Greek city of the time. He'd never heard about the huge parts of Grecian culture being derived from the Cretans who in turn had absorbed Egyptian culture into their own. In fact he believed Egypt wasn't 'African' and didn't know there were Nubian pharoahs. In short, not only was he a racist but something even worse - he was a stupid and uneducated racist!

The best part of all though was when he pointed to his black wife and stated he couldn't be racist because he married a black woman! Shits and giggles it was.......eventually he called me the spawn of Satan and ran out of the room. Good times. Job well done.

robertlouis

05-24-2012, 03:54 AM

Yeah he obviously didn't read the rules. He's went off the deep-end.
A long overdue ... BAN!

Thanks Seanchai. InHouston was a seriously unpleasant man. This thread was beginning to sound like a Klan revival meeting.

giovanni_hotel

05-24-2012, 05:04 AM

it never does take them long.....the first sign is usually when they start by saying how non-racist they are. If a person has to declare that as a pillar then guess what - they're racists and bigots in denial. And that applies equally to people of ANY 'race'. I love turning those people out - quite satisfying to watch a person come face to face with their racism.

One of many episodes: I was at a party thrown by one of my 'Christian' relatives who had invited some of his fellow devout God-fearing, loving congregation. I ended up in a room with one of them (a West Indian of European descent) who kept talking about how much he loved my relative because that relative was a 'good' Christian and was civilized. Of course that piqued my interest :) within a half hour this wonderful Christian who loved everybody was ranting about Africa being full of primitives who had never built anything, discovered anything, invented anything, and had therefore contributed nothing to the modern world.

He believed all civilization originated in Greece - he'd never heard of Sumer, Mohenjo Daro, Harrappa, Namu, or even Ur (the city of his prophet Abraham). He'd never heard about the Stele of Hammurabi. He'd never heard of Mithra or Krishna and was shocked to history of his Christ paralleled theirs. He didn't know an Ethiopian king was part of the siege of Troy and didn't know that Troy was an Eastern city far greater than any Greek city of the time. He'd never heard about the huge parts of Grecian culture being derived from the Cretans who in turn had absorbed Egyptian culture into their own. In fact he believed Egypt wasn't 'African' and didn't know there were Nubian pharoahs. In short, not only was he a racist but something even worse - he was a stupid and uneducated racist!

The best part of all though was when he pointed to his black wife and stated he couldn't be racist because he married a black woman! Shits and giggles it was.......eventually he called me the spawn of Satan and ran out of the room. Good times. Job well done.
:werd:
Been in similar situations to this too.
It's both funny and very sad, but it's always better to know than having to guess.

People are deliberately ignorant and uneducated about so much of the world around them, yet they are the first to speak up about how 'wise' and 'enlightened' they are.

natina

05-24-2012, 05:14 AM

what do you mean it was not illegal?

IT WAS NEGLIGENCE FOR GEORGE ZOMMERMAN TO PROFILE FOLLOW/STALK/PURSUE AND CONFRONT TRAYVON MARTIN A MINOR WHO WAS DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL AND BELONGED IN THAT COMPLEX AND WAS NOT TRESPASSING WHILE ZIMMERMAN WAS CARRYING A CONCEALED LOADED WEAPON AND NOT HAVING ANY AUTHORITY TO QUESTION OR DETAIN TRAYVON MARTIN THERE BY CREATING A DANGEROUS AND HAZARDOUS SCENARIO WHICH COULD RESULT IN

link to that PDF item says: "read the charging document"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story_1.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story_1.html)

They are going for the conviction on the lesser charge, which only requires that the jury agree that Zimmerman acted with criminal negligence when he knowingly pursued Trayvon with a weapon

* despite the warnings from the 911 operator

* despite the standard that legitimate neighborhood watch personnel limit their role to "observe and report"

* despite what Zimmerman, as a student enrolled in in law enforcement training was in a better position to know than most citizens.

You've completely mischaraterized me but that's fine. All I've ever done is mention the utter hypocirsy in the media and general public regarding racism and hate crimes. I'm sick to death of black people getting a pass on racism and hate crimes in the media while stories like Zimmerman and blown way out of proportion and are used by the media as examples of how black people are somehow victims when the real facts are that black people are leaving a vile and brutal path of destruction in thier wake. You can't fool me. All the media lies in the world can't fool me. I know what's happening.

That's probalby true, but then Zimmerman was living in a community that was increasingly becomign a hotbed of criminal activity. And who do you think was committing a disproprotionate amount of crime in that community? Black people of course. If I lived in a community where there was a lot of crime commited by black people I would be FAR more suspicios of you walking down the street in a hoodie than I would be out in the general public or in a community where there was little or no crime. That's just human nature. I'm still astonished as to why black people are indignant about racial profiling. It's almost comical actually. Don't want to be profiled? How about get your shit together and stop commiting crimes... Holy fuck do we really have to have this conversation?

Not necessarily. You may not like the way somebody is talking to you and you are not obligated to respond or answer questions but you certainly don't have the right to assault someobody if they have caused you no physical harm. A verbal confrontation is not illegal and that does not give somebody a right to initiate a physical confrontation (no matter how angry you are).

Agreed.

Zimmerman may have acted unwisely (i.e. following Travon when the dispatcher advised him not to) but that doesn't make him at fault because it isn't illegal. Even if Zimmerman confronted him and they exhanged words, that isn't illegal either and therefore the question of 'fault' is completely irrelevant. The only question that matters is who initiated the physical altercation (that is illegal) and was Zimmerman justified in pulling the trigger? That's all that should matter.

giovanni_hotel

05-24-2012, 05:29 AM

WTF!!?????? (Stay on script, George. I'm getting confused.)

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Zimmerman-complained-about-Sanford-police-in-2011-3580679.php

Zimmerman complained about Sanford police in 2011

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — George Zimmerman accused the Sanford police department of corruption more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin, saying at a public forum the agency covered up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer.
"I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white," Zimmerman said during a 90-second statement to city commissioners at a community forum. "It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those who are in the thin blue line."
The forum took place on Jan. 8, 2011, days after a video of the beating went viral on the Internet and then-Sanford Police Chief Brian Tooley was forced to retire. Tooley's department faced criticism for dragging its feet in arresting Justin Collison, the son of a police lieutenant.
"I'd like to know what action the commission is taking in order to repeal Mr. Tooley's pension," Zimmerman said to the commission. "I'm not asking you to repeal his pension; I believe he's already forfeited his pension by his illegal cover-up in corruption in what happened in his department."
Zimmerman's public comments could be important because the Martin family and supporters contend the neighborhood watch volunteer singled Martin out because he was black. Zimmerman has a Peruvian mother and a white father. His supporters have said he is not racist.
The Miami Herald first reported details from the January 2011 community forum Wednesday. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the tape from the meeting.
In the speech, Zimmerman said he witnessed "disgusting" behavior by officers when he was part of a ride-along program, though the agency said it did not know when, if ever, Zimmerman was in that program.
"The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps. He explained to me he doesn't carry a long gun in his vehicle because in his words, 'Anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork and you're gonna find me as far away from it.'"
Zimmerman also said the officer in question "took two lunch breaks and attended a going away party for one of his fellow officers."
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett and interim police chief Richard Myers were both unavailable for comment.
Zimmerman is free on bond awaiting his second-degree murder trial for shooting Martin. Martin was walking back to a townhome he was staying at when he got into a fight with Zimmerman, who shot him in the chest at close range.
Zimmerman, who claims the Feb. 26 shooting was self-defense, was initially not arrested. But after protests around the country and an investigation by a state prosecutor, he was charged.
Tooley's successor, Bill Lee, temporarily resigned his post following a no-confidence vote by city commissioners.
Lee offered to resign permanently, but his commissioners turned down his request. He is on paid leave.

natina

05-24-2012, 05:47 AM

yourdaddy

05-25-2012, 01:11 AM

yodajazz

05-25-2012, 04:54 AM

You sound almost as dumb as trayvon was.

Until there is a more official version of this story, I see you as the dumb one. Trayvonn had never been charged with a crime. Nor was there ever any evidence, that he was even contemplating the crime, for which he was pursued. Even if he had smoked weed, for which there is no direct evidence, tens of millions of Americans have admitted doing this. Zimmerman, bears some responsibility in the death. The only question is how much? Do you consider it wise to follow someone at night, while armed? It is reasonable to think that, an average person, seeing someone follow them in the night, would be fearful. Thus whatever Trayvonn's actions were, they could have been within the bounds of reasonable action. So assuming the Trayvonn's actions were stupid, also implies other things, such as certain races of people are stupid. I know that you did not state this directly, but it is implied.

Still, I support your right to free speech. This case raises some important issues, and all sides are needed make progress from this tragedy.

natina

05-25-2012, 06:16 AM

trayvon was a bright kid

zimmerman was a time bomb waiting to go off.

a DA'S pain in the ass as describe by DA Papantonio and TIM WISE

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder
911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related)

ZIMMERMAN WAS GOING TO GET CHARGE WITH MURDER ONE CAUSE THE DA was sending it to the grand jury

Zimmerman psychologically wanna be cop profile; He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells.

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America

By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous,.....

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

You sound almost as smart as trayvon was and zimmerman was not.

natina

05-25-2012, 06:24 AM

you can not shoot a gun in a fist fight

thats how you go to jail

bobvela

05-25-2012, 08:30 AM

you can not shoot a gun in a fist fight

thats how you go to jail

Who says? Only a fool shows up to any fight armed less well than their opponent... just ask the police, military, or even Spider Man in the new previews ("Oh no! You found my weakness, small knives!").

More so... had a gun not been involved, the situation would be very different right now, reversed in fact.

Let's remove the gun from the situation... let's say George Zimmerman was unarmed that night and still decided to pursue Trayvon Martin.

"Nyeh, without a gun Zimmerman wouldn't have had the balls to stalk that poor, unarmed, helpless child."

...bear with me for a moment.

Assuming an unarmed Zimmerman had followed Martin... and Martin reacted as it seems he did, beating the %#(&% out of Zimmerman... then what?

If Martin were to be caught by the police, he would be charged with aggravated assault... and likely just become yet another incarcerated black youth... I wonder if Al Sharpton would have lead a march in that case.

While a 'stand your ground' argument *might* be able to be made for Martins actions... the repeated assault (described by one witness as "MMA style punching"* as I recall) goes well beyond simply defending one's self.

But isn't a gun the same? Nope. A punch is not unlike a stab... or a gunshot... each is a single act and each additional instance carries additional risks, even if the likelihood of successfully removing the thread of force increases.

While multiple punches may remove the threat of an attacker... a line can be quickly crossed into the realm of assault... while just a single gunshot is usually enough to remove the threat (note Zimmerman only fired his weapon once).

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Zimmerman is going to walk... and in all likelihood during the pre-trial part where his side has the chance to prove his self-defense argument. Know what the burden of proof is to prove self-defense? Preponderance of the evidence (ie 50.00001% that the proposition is true)... vs beyond a reasonable doubt... which the prosecution would have to prove during the criminal trial.

*BTW... before you again play the "Nyeh, witnesses are changing their story"... ask yourself... will such a change help or hurt the prosecution?

The correct answer... hurt, quite significantly in fact as it would render moot anything the witness has to say. Why? Because they have demonstrated themselves to be unreliable... even if what they are now saying is 100% factual and beneficial to the prosecution.

giovanni_hotel

05-25-2012, 03:08 PM

The only injuries Zimmerman had from getting his ass kicked were cuts to the back of his head. I don't buy for a minute a 158# teen is capable of inflicting grievous injuries or death with only his fists.
Has anyone ever seen someone take blows to the face in real street fight before??
http://www.newsmanateearchive.com/Mug%20shot%20--%20Neil%20Richetti.jpg
http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Timothy-McQuillen-Mug-Shot-336x283.jpg

This is Zimmerman's photo taken the night of the murder at the Sanford police station.

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/zimmerman-head-e1337392164775.jpg?w=640

Which photo doesn't belong??

Eyewitness testimony only matters when it's been given UNDER OATH. If you contradict your previous statement in court, then your credibility takes a hit. If you change the story you gave to a cop or a reporter, it doesn't matter until you do it before a judge.

I had someone give me this scenario in regards to this case for the victim challenged; imagine Zimmerman kept following Travyon back to his father's GF's condo, except none of them were home. Trayvon goes inside and Zimmerman immediately follows him before he can close the front door, assuming that Martin had just broken into someone's residence. Confrontation, altercation, dead teenager. All because Zimmerman wrongly assumed Trayvon had just broken into someone's domicile.

Who would have the right to claim self defense in that scenario?? If you're allowed to whip a stranger's ass for illegally following you into a residence where you're staying, IMO the SYG law holds the same right of self defense for a teen who's being followed by an unknown stranger in his SUV who gets out of his vehicle and chases him down on foot.

For instance, if Zimmerman had stopped his SUV and never gotten out, and Trayvon turned around, walked back to the car window and asked George, 'what the fuck are you following me for?', then suddenly tried to open the door to Zimmerman's car and ended up getting shot dead, that would be fucked up but a more plausible claim of self defense.

THis case IMO won't be dismissed before the trial. The state special prosecutor for the state of Florida has aspirations for the governorship, and I don't think she even takes this case on unless she thinks she can convict Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder/manslaughter.

trish

05-25-2012, 03:10 PM

If Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night two people would've would've have left the scene with their lives instead of one. You're an stupid idiot to be claiming that's a worse scenario than what actually happened. Guns are designed to kill. You carry one at every body else's risk.

Queens Guy

05-25-2012, 04:28 PM

I knew about that ABOVE.

different subject below

I HAVE A RECORDING OF THIS INCIDENT

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS RUNNING AFTER TRAYVON MARTIN WHILE TRAYVON IS RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE SOME UNKNOWN OLDER MALE IS FOLLOWING/STALKING/PURSUING HIM FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.

this is evidence any have not heard and will boost the prosecutions case

Natina,

You have a recording of it? Like an audio recording?

I think this case will turn on what happened after Zimmerman did after he ended his 911 call. His girlfriend gave her statement. But, she's an interested party. If Trayvon had called 911 and it was recorded, or he reached his girlfriend's voicemail and it was recorded, that would be much stronger evidence.

I'd love to know more about this recording you are talking about. Is there a link to any article discussing this recording? Please post it.

hard4janira

05-25-2012, 07:43 PM

trayvon was a bright kid

Please stop. He was anything but a 'bright' kid. Maybe by today's lowly US standards he was bright, but then againg we aren't even in the top 20 countries in education anymore. Trayvon was a doofus and a pedestrian student AT BEST.

zimmerman was a time bomb waiting to go off.

Hyperbole. Makes for good message board fodder though.

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder

Absurd and you know it.

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/

The 'burden' of blackness? Are you shitting me? Is this burden the reason half of you act like escaped zoo animals with no regard for the law or other people? Ok, half might be a bit much but you people need to grow the fuck up and take a long look in the mirror. Sorry, truth hurts.