what makes a person gay?

[phobun]

In my opinion, a person is gay if they like the same gender. Man liking another man is gay. A man liking a transman (who has a vagina) is gay. A man liking a transwoman is not gay.

I agree, but gender is not a dichotomous variable, but one that is much more continuous and fluid. So where same gender ends for one person might not be the same for the next.

[LaCosa]

I've read parts of some posts on this page that I find myself in agreement with: Hippie, pnw, bte, sucka. In one or more of those posts I may not agree with every sentence in one or more paragraphs but so what.

In a philosophy of biology class I'm taking, we currently are covering the topic of homosexuality, and we had a power point presentation presented by a gay man from the student gay and lesbian student organization.

Of course, philosophy of biology is not strict, proper, biological science, at bottom it remains a philosophical discipline and course. Nonetheless, this branch of philosophy still draws upon the literature in the sciences of biology. My declared major is biology and not philosophy by the way.

So, I look with interest into seeing what the material we will cover has to say on this matter. One of the problems of engaging or researching a topic like this is that it is not free of agendas. The average citizen might think the only agenda comes from the religious factor but this is not true. The political factor, for or against, weighs heavy on issues like this. It weighs heavy on the scientific research. More accurately on the presentation of statistical data and the conclusions drawn. I've already encountered in one book of mine for the course, two or more paragraphs explaining the fallacious news prints and conclusions about the statistical "evidence" showing homosexuality to be genetic. But political lobbying groups have influence in science, always have, and always will.




My own personal feeling - from life experience as well as observation - is that few to no humans on earth are 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual or 100% bisexual. On a horizontal line I think people fall along varying points of the line with most people falling along points tending further toward the heterosexual end point. The theory of evolution as it pertains to reproduction should have explanatory power for why that is.

However, I do think it is perfectly reasonable to have categories for peoples overwhelming sexual orientation.

Transsexuals are not simply homosexual. And homosexuality is not predicated on enjoying being sodomized either. Homosexuality is attraction to members of your same sex. If you only find women sexually attractive 2% or so of the time, and you find men attractive 98% of the time, if you are a man I think it is reasonable categorize you as a homosexual. Transsexuals because of what modern medical science and the art of cosmetic surgery can do are a whole new world to be looked into to. I don't view men attracted to transsexuals that look and behave like the female sex and gender as gay.

[IndyCloset]

Its a state of mind, it really only matters how you feel. because in reality.. no one really cares .

You are beautiful!

Best believe I'm chasin someone like you tonight!!!!!

[phobun]

My declared major is biology

A useless major

[BeardedOne]

Ruby, you know that I'd be gay for you.

Great thread, BTW. It looks into the concept of 'gay' rather than the endless whining over 'Am I gay?'.

that doesnt work either, there are bisexual people who are attracted to both male and female but have no interest in transexuals

I find that odd, though not impossible. I've been alternately tagged as either bisexual or pansexual (And I think the latter is more accurate) but have never turned away a partner because of their gender. I've been with male, female, transmen, transwomen, intersexed and, most recently, a delightful person that defines themselves as 'gender queer'. So long as everyone at the party is enjoying themselves and no blood is spilled or dishes broken, I really don't care what I'm called.

Being gay is more accurately defined as being sexually attracted to people who are your same gender. Gender is defined by more characteristics than just genitalia. So, I don't think it's correct to consider men who are attracted to transwomen as gay.

That's where most of society gets tripped up. They define 'gender' as 'plumbing' and let it go at that. I have one friend who knows many trans people and has a decent grasp of gender identity but still looks at a pic of Vaniity, Jennifer Paris, Ruby, Bianca (Friere and Soares), and sez "They're fucking =GORGEOUS=, but they'll never be female." Over the past few decades the gender binary has evolved beyond the capacity of the average mind. The mind has some catching up to do.

By definition, what we do here is homosexual--- 2 dicks , same sex, homosexual. I don't like to hear that but that is the definition of the word. However, it's not necessarily GAY. Gay is something that occurs in the mind. It is not merely an act. Anyone can have a homosexual experience, but that doesn't define them as gay. Of course society will say otherwise, but society has a low median IQ.
The transsexual is monkey wrench, the proverbial fly in the ointment. Throw on top of that the varying degrees of transition and you have a question that I don't think can ever be answered!! Is he gay if he likes post-ops? Pre-ops? Girls with pretty faces but manly bodies? Girls with manly faces but fem bodies? Part-timers? There are far to many variables for society to come to a consensus on when it's ok to like transsexuals. So it'll probably remain the concensus that it's never ok (you'll always be considered gay because that's much easier!)

I can't help but think of the tagline: Drinking one beer doesn't make you an alcoholic, but suck one cock...

With all of my experience and with all that has changed in recent years, I now see 'gay' not so much as a sexual attraction but more as an affectation. Freddy Mercury clones, effeminate men that identify as 100% male, and guys that strike a pose and announce "SNAP!".

True, rubbing cocks is, without a doubt, homosexual by the strictest definition, but it isn't 'gay' if you're with a transwoman. Basic biology shows us that we all start out the same and that for some that little bud becomes a clit and for others it becomes a cock. In the case of a transwoman, her clit just went on overdrive in the womb. Many of the gurls I've been with refer to their treasure as either their 'clitty' or their 'she-cock' and I've adjusted to that terminology.

Personally, when I am nuzzling the crotch of my partner, no matter their gender/gender identity/sexual preference, I really don't give a flying fart in space what anyone calls it.

[El Nino]

@mari
and thats my point. Gender is black and white to society, male or female and nothing in between, therefore what is defined as being gay is blanketed and applied to all ts lovers, whether they like getting fucked or or dont even wanna see the cock, because we are genetically male. Im not saying i agree with it, i dont feel that men who like ts women are gay, but i do understand why people who argue the opposite feel so strongly about it, and thats because ts women are recognized by society as male, no matter how cunt, how pretty, how passable she is, a person arguing that its gay will always say "but that's a man." until transexuals are recognized as a sex seperate from male and female, the majority of people will continue to maintain the frame of mind that liking tgirls is gay

exactly right!!

[El Nino]

A useless major

A "useless" opinion...

[giovanni_hotel]

You had written, "Again, a guy into Ts should really only be concerned with what a T thinks about YOU, no one else's opinion really counts much anyway."

That's a fine and noble ideal, but not one to which you're even close to aspiring. You're one of the thinnest-skinned guys on here, so much so that if someone whispers COCKHOUND, you've got your hands on your hips and you're huffing and puffing. And you care too much what you're family thinks too.

My problem is why you're personally obsessed with calling other dudes 'cockhounds', etc.
I just don't get why you're filled with this outsized self-importance that allows you to label random people you've never met, or feel entitled to define their sexuality for them.

How do you 'know' so much about other men's specific attraction to trans-chicks??
Are you a CD/TV on the weekends??

Other than you being a world class asshole as evidenced by 95% posts, I'm baffled as you why you're qualified to speak about any guy on this forum other than yourself.

And I've never mentioned my family specifically, EVER.
Maybe in general terms, as in, you know, everyone has a 'family', but once again this is example of your proclivity towards hyperbole and exaggeration, based on NOTHING other than you being a general asshole.

My original statement still stands, in that I could give a fucc how you or anyone else chooses to define anything that I may do with a TG, but got-damn phobun you need to shelve that psycho-analytical superiority complex.

Instead of researching what someone else has posted for once, check out your own posting history and ask yourself, really, what the fucc is your basic problem?? I mean what's the point??

You diss guys on HA more than any girl or escort. IMO a T has legitimate reasons to be hostile towards some men, generally speaking, but you??

Either you're pathological or just bitchy. Or secretly wish you were T.

Again, any guy strictly into postop TGs who signs up and joins a board like HUNG ANGELS, (hung = cock, was it really that difficult to figure out phobun??) IMO on some level is deeply emotionally disturbed.

And nah, I'm not really thin skinned. Assholes bother me, what can I say?
You are very much an asshole.

I don't call that being overly 'sensitive'. It's recognizing the obvious.

[phobun]

My problem is why you're personally obsessed with calling other dudes 'cockhounds', etc.
I just don't get why you're filled with this outsized self-importance that allows you to label random people you've never met, or feel entitled to define their sexuality for them.

How do you 'know' so much about other men's specific attraction to trans-chicks??
Are you a CD/TV on the weekends??

Other than you being a world class asshole as evidenced by 95% posts, I'm baffled as you why you're qualified to speak about any guy on this forum other than yourself.

And I've never mentioned my family specifically, EVER.
Maybe in general terms, as in, you know, everyone has a 'family', but once again this is example of your proclivity towards hyperbole and exaggeration, based on NOTHING other than you being a general asshole.

My original statement still stands, in that I could give a fucc how you or anyone else chooses to define anything that I may do with a TG, but got-damn phobun you need to shelve that psycho-analytical superiority complex.

Instead of researching what someone else has posted for once, check out your own posting history and ask yourself, really, what the fucc is your basic problem?? I mean what's the point??

You diss guys on HA more than any girl or escort. IMO a T has legitimate reasons to be hostile towards some men, generally speaking, but you??

Either you're pathological or just bitchy. Or secretly wish you were T.

Again, any guy strictly into postop TGs who signs up and joins a board like HUNG ANGELS, (hung = cock, was it really that difficult to figure out phobun??) IMO on some level is deeply emotionally disturbed.

And nah, I'm not really thin skinned. Assholes bother me, what can I say?
You are very much an asshole.

I don't call that being overly 'sensitive'. It's recognizing the obvious.

I stand by my comments. You're longwinded meltdown is proof enough. As regards your commenting on your family, you did so just last month in the "Hiding your past" thread:

"Close friends and maybe a few select family members, other than that, I'm not going there with people if I'm in a LTR with a TG.

I won't deny her if confronted about it, but IMO it's really no one else's business.
My family is very Black and very conservative/traditional. I mean they would still love me no doubt, but they would definitely be saying, 'you know cousin ----? Who knew he was a straight up FAGGOT?? You think he's coming to this year's family picnic??'"

Clearly you're concerned about what you're family will think of you, regardless of your assertion: "Again, a guy into Ts should really only be concerned with what a T thinks about YOU, no one else's opinion really counts much anyway."

Heh

[phobun]

A "useless" opinion...

A biology degree won't get you very far in the biotech industry. So unless you're among the cream of the crop and go onto some sort of professional school, most people get stuck working in some dead-end lab making just above the poverty line.