what makes a person gay?

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Originally Posted by bte

In my opinion, a person is gay if they like the same gender. Man liking another man is gay. A man liking a transman (who has a vagina) is gay. A man liking a transwoman is not gay.

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I agree, but gender is not a dichotomous variable, but one that is much more continuous and fluid. So where same gender ends for one person might not be the same for the next.

I've read parts of some posts on this page that I find myself in agreement with: Hippie, pnw, bte, sucka. In one or more of those posts I may not agree with every sentence in one or more paragraphs but so what.

In a philosophy of biology class I'm taking, we currently are covering the topic of homosexuality, and we had a power point presentation presented by a gay man from the student gay and lesbian student organization.

Of course, philosophy of biology is not strict, proper, biological science, at bottom it remains a philosophical discipline and course. Nonetheless, this branch of philosophy still draws upon the literature in the sciences of biology. My declared major is biology and not philosophy by the way.

So, I look with interest into seeing what the material we will cover has to say on this matter. One of the problems of engaging or researching a topic like this is that it is not free of agendas. The average citizen might think the only agenda comes from the religious factor but this is not true. The political factor, for or against, weighs heavy on issues like this. It weighs heavy on the scientific research. More accurately on the presentation of statistical data and the conclusions drawn. I've already encountered in one book of mine for the course, two or more paragraphs explaining the fallacious news prints and conclusions about the statistical "evidence" showing homosexuality to be genetic. But political lobbying groups have influence in science, always have, and always will.




My own personal feeling - from life experience as well as observation - is that few to no humans on earth are 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual or 100% bisexual. On a horizontal line I think people fall along varying points of the line with most people falling along points tending further toward the heterosexual end point. The theory of evolution as it pertains to reproduction should have explanatory power for why that is.

However, I do think it is perfectly reasonable to have categories for peoples overwhelming sexual orientation.

Transsexuals are not simply homosexual. And homosexuality is not predicated on enjoying being sodomized either. Homosexuality is attraction to members of your same sex. If you only find women sexually attractive 2% or so of the time, and you find men attractive 98% of the time, if you are a man I think it is reasonable categorize you as a homosexual. Transsexuals because of what modern medical science and the art of cosmetic surgery can do are a whole new world to be looked into to. I don't view men attracted to transsexuals that look and behave like the female sex and gender as gay.

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAda

Its a state of mind, it really only matters how you feel. because in reality.. no one really cares .

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You are beautiful!

Best believe I'm chasin someone like you tonight!!!!!

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Originally Posted by LaCosa

My declared major is biology

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A useless major

Ruby, you know that I'd be gay for you. ;)

Great thread, BTW. It looks into the concept of 'gay' rather than the endless whining over 'Am I gay?'.

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Originally Posted by RubyTS

that doesnt work either, there are bisexual people who are attracted to both male and female but have no interest in transexuals

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I find that odd, though not impossible. I've been alternately tagged as either bisexual or pansexual (And I think the latter is more accurate) but have never turned away a partner because of their gender. I've been with male, female, transmen, transwomen, intersexed and, most recently, a delightful person that defines themselves as 'gender queer'. So long as everyone at the party is enjoying themselves and no blood is spilled or dishes broken, I really don't care what I'm called.

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Originally Posted by Mari_Mar

Being gay is more accurately defined as being sexually attracted to people who are your same gender. Gender is defined by more characteristics than just genitalia. So, I don't think it's correct to consider men who are attracted to transwomen as gay.

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That's where most of society gets tripped up. They define 'gender' as 'plumbing' and let it go at that. I have one friend who knows many trans people and has a decent grasp of gender identity but still looks at a pic of Vaniity, Jennifer Paris, Ruby, Bianca (Friere and Soares), and sez "They're fucking =GORGEOUS=, but they'll never be female." Over the past few decades the gender binary has evolved beyond the capacity of the average mind. The mind has some catching up to do.

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Originally Posted by sucka4chix

By definition, what we do here is homosexual--- 2 dicks , same sex, homosexual. I don't like to hear that but that is the definition of the word. However, it's not necessarily GAY. Gay is something that occurs in the mind. It is not merely an act. Anyone can have a homosexual experience, but that doesn't define them as gay. Of course society will say otherwise, but society has a low median IQ.
The transsexual is monkey wrench, the proverbial fly in the ointment. Throw on top of that the varying degrees of transition and you have a question that I don't think can ever be answered!! Is he gay if he likes post-ops? Pre-ops? Girls with pretty faces but manly bodies? Girls with manly faces but fem bodies? Part-timers? There are far to many variables for society to come to a consensus on when it's ok to like transsexuals. So it'll probably remain the concensus that it's never ok (you'll always be considered gay because that's much easier!)

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I can't help but think of the tagline: Drinking one beer doesn't make you an alcoholic, but suck one cock...

With all of my experience and with all that has changed in recent years, I now see 'gay' not so much as a sexual attraction but more as an affectation. Freddy Mercury clones, effeminate men that identify as 100% male, and guys that strike a pose and announce "SNAP!".

True, rubbing cocks is, without a doubt, homosexual by the strictest definition, but it isn't 'gay' if you're with a transwoman. Basic biology shows us that we all start out the same and that for some that little bud becomes a clit and for others it becomes a cock. In the case of a transwoman, her clit just went on overdrive in the womb. :) Many of the gurls I've been with refer to their treasure as either their 'clitty' or their 'she-cock' and I've adjusted to that terminology.

Personally, when I am nuzzling the crotch of my partner, no matter their gender/gender identity/sexual preference, I really don't give a flying fart in space what anyone calls it.

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Originally Posted by rubyts

@mari
and thats my point. Gender is black and white to society, male or female and nothing in between, therefore what is defined as being gay is blanketed and applied to all ts lovers, whether they like getting fucked or or dont even wanna see the cock, because we are genetically male. Im not saying i agree with it, i dont feel that men who like ts women are gay, but i do understand why people who argue the opposite feel so strongly about it, and thats because ts women are recognized by society as male, no matter how cunt, how pretty, how passable she is, a person arguing that its gay will always say "but that's a man." until transexuals are recognized as a sex seperate from male and female, the majority of people will continue to maintain the frame of mind that liking tgirls is gay

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exactly right!!

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Originally Posted by phobun

A useless major

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A "useless" opinion...

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Originally Posted by phobun

You had written, "Again, a guy into Ts should really only be concerned with what a T thinks about YOU, no one else's opinion really counts much anyway."

That's a fine and noble ideal, but not one to which you're even close to aspiring. You're one of the thinnest-skinned guys on here, so much so that if someone whispers COCKHOUND, you've got your hands on your hips and you're huffing and puffing. And you care too much what you're family thinks too.

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My problem is why you're personally obsessed with calling other dudes 'cockhounds', etc.
I just don't get why you're filled with this outsized self-importance that allows you to label random people you've never met, or feel entitled to define their sexuality for them.

How do you 'know' so much about other men's specific attraction to trans-chicks??
Are you a CD/TV on the weekends??

Other than you being a world class asshole as evidenced by 95% posts, I'm baffled as you why you're qualified to speak about any guy on this forum other than yourself.

And I've never mentioned my family specifically, EVER.
Maybe in general terms, as in, you know, everyone has a 'family', but once again this is example of your proclivity towards hyperbole and exaggeration, based on NOTHING other than you being a general asshole.

My original statement still stands, in that I could give a fucc how you or anyone else chooses to define anything that I may do with a TG, but got-damn phobun you need to shelve that psycho-analytical superiority complex.

Instead of researching what someone else has posted for once, check out your own posting history and ask yourself, really, what the fucc is your basic problem?? I mean what's the point??

You diss guys on HA more than any girl or escort. IMO a T has legitimate reasons to be hostile towards some men, generally speaking, but you??

Either you're pathological or just bitchy. Or secretly wish you were T.

Again, any guy strictly into postop TGs who signs up and joins a board like HUNG ANGELS, (hung = cock, was it really that difficult to figure out phobun??) IMO on some level is deeply emotionally disturbed.

And nah, I'm not really thin skinned. Assholes bother me, what can I say?
You are very much an asshole.

I don't call that being overly 'sensitive'. It's recognizing the obvious.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

My problem is why you're personally obsessed with calling other dudes 'cockhounds', etc.
I just don't get why you're filled with this outsized self-importance that allows you to label random people you've never met, or feel entitled to define their sexuality for them.

How do you 'know' so much about other men's specific attraction to trans-chicks??
Are you a CD/TV on the weekends??

Other than you being a world class asshole as evidenced by 95% posts, I'm baffled as you why you're qualified to speak about any guy on this forum other than yourself.

And I've never mentioned my family specifically, EVER.
Maybe in general terms, as in, you know, everyone has a 'family', but once again this is example of your proclivity towards hyperbole and exaggeration, based on NOTHING other than you being a general asshole.

My original statement still stands, in that I could give a fucc how you or anyone else chooses to define anything that I may do with a TG, but got-damn phobun you need to shelve that psycho-analytical superiority complex.

Instead of researching what someone else has posted for once, check out your own posting history and ask yourself, really, what the fucc is your basic problem?? I mean what's the point??

You diss guys on HA more than any girl or escort. IMO a T has legitimate reasons to be hostile towards some men, generally speaking, but you??

Either you're pathological or just bitchy. Or secretly wish you were T.

Again, any guy strictly into postop TGs who signs up and joins a board like HUNG ANGELS, (hung = cock, was it really that difficult to figure out phobun??) IMO on some level is deeply emotionally disturbed.

And nah, I'm not really thin skinned. Assholes bother me, what can I say?
You are very much an asshole.

I don't call that being overly 'sensitive'. It's recognizing the obvious.

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I stand by my comments. You're longwinded meltdown is proof enough. As regards your commenting on your family, you did so just last month in the "Hiding your past" thread:

"Close friends and maybe a few select family members, other than that, I'm not going there with people if I'm in a LTR with a TG.

I won't deny her if confronted about it, but IMO it's really no one else's business.
My family is very Black and very conservative/traditional. I mean they would still love me no doubt, but they would definitely be saying, 'you know cousin ----? Who knew he was a straight up FAGGOT?? You think he's coming to this year's family picnic??'"

Clearly you're concerned about what you're family will think of you, regardless of your assertion: "Again, a guy into Ts should really only be concerned with what a T thinks about YOU, no one else's opinion really counts much anyway."

Heh

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Originally Posted by El Nino

A "useless" opinion...

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A biology degree won't get you very far in the biotech industry. So unless you're among the cream of the crop and go onto some sort of professional school, most people get stuck working in some dead-end lab making just above the poverty line.

Phobun, Giovanni's response was not a "Long-winded meltdown" as you have stated. It was a necessary and educational response that, by this point, is quite appropriate and very needed. Simply put, you're an insecure, judgmental prick. Who the fuck do you think you are? Your opinions are falsehoods, rude and negative... just like you. You need to wake up.

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Originally Posted by El Nino

Phobun, Giovanni's response was not a "Long-winded meltdown" as you have stated. It was a necessary and educational response that, by this point, is quite appropriate and very needed. Simply put, you're an insecure, judgmental prick. Who the fuck do you think you are? Your opinions are falsehoods, rude and negative... just like you. You need to wake up.

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Back to your beakers and flasks, smartie!

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Originally Posted by phobun

A biology degree won't get you very far in the biotech industry. So unless you're among the cream of the crop and go onto some sort of professional school, most people get stuck working in some dead-end lab making just above the poverty line.

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You are such an emormous twit. What if somebody gets a biology because they are simply interested in the subject matter and content... and don't give a shit about entry jobs or money?? Ever thought of that, ya schmuck? More-over, most Physicians get either a bio degree or pre-med degree before continuing onto medschool. A bio degree is a good foundation, so don't go around telling people its a useless degree. You're a real annoyance on this board.

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Originally Posted by El Nino

You are such an emormous twit. What if somebody gets a biology because they are simply interested in the subject matter and content... and don't give a shit about entry jobs or money?? Ever thought of that, ya schmuck? More-over, most Physicians get either a bio degree or pre-med degree before continuing onto medschool. A bio degree is a good foundation, so don't go around telling people its a useless degree. You're a real annoyance on this board.

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I did say the cream of the crop go on to some sort of professional school, the rest, not so good.

Don't take a single person's opinion so personally.

I am of the 3rd sex.
I identify as the 3rd sex
Homosexuality is when you have sex with your same sex.
I don't have sex with my same sex
I don't have sex with females either
So I may be trans, but I am not gay.
The men who deal with me would not be gay either
they are dealing with a woman when they deal with me.
They understand that, I understand that.
And we don't give a fuck who else does:dancing::party::wiggle::wiggle:
BTW: Glad you are back with us chica!

How does one become a "gay" ?

... It's spread like the rage virus in "28 Days Later" only instead of becoming a rage zombie you become a fabulous fashionista.

Am i right?

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Originally Posted by phobun

I did say the cream of the crop go on to some sort of professional school, the rest, not so good.

Don't take a single person's opinion so personally.

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Don't tell me how to think, shit head... OR anybody else for that matter. Also, if you didn't post such lowgrade content, we wouldn't even be having this conversation....

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Originally Posted by TsVanessa69

I am of the 3rd sex.
I identify as the 3rd sex
Homosexuality is when you have sex with your same sex.
I don't have sex with my same sex
I don't have sex with females either
So I may be trans, but I am not gay.
The men who deal with me would not be gay either
they are dealing with a woman when they deal with me.
They understand that, I understand that.
And we don't give a fuck who else does:dancing::party::wiggle::wiggle:
BTW: Glad you are back with us chica!

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AGREED, Vanessa.

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Originally Posted by El Nino

Don't tell me how to think, shit head... OR anybody else for that matter. Also, if you didn't post such lowgrade content, we wouldn't even be having this conversation....

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Ouch. Someone is wounded.

Nope, just trying to shed some light.

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Originally Posted by El Nino

AGREED, Vanessa.

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I live the life of a normal woman.
I may escort or whatever as a source of income.
Yes I cash in on the label society put on me every chance i get.
BUT at the end of the day, I go back to my real life and my people are straight guys and such.
I don't hang with gays or that whole bullshit lifestyle. I have even had to put a curb on those transexuals who think they rule the world with their faggorty and mess.
I am Puerto Rican and a woman.
MY people respect me as such.
If I liked females or other transexuals I would be gay, but I only like men.
So a woman who likes men is straight correct?

what makes a person gay?interesting question.its comes down to,its all a question of definition.a question of how you define gender.when you are sexually attracted to the same gender you are gay or bi.but what is gender?you can define gender in different ways.
genetical definition:
XX chromosomes=female
XY chromosomes=male
physical definiton:
a person with a penis=man
a person with a vagina=female
psychological definition:
a person which feels psychological to be a female is female.
a person which feels psychological to be a male is male.



examples:

genetical definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a woman but is genetically male.(being genetically male but physical female from birth on is really possible)
by this definition this man would be gay.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a m2f transsexual(it doesnt matter what is between the person legs)which has a female(i let it up to you to define what female is,it would leed to far in this discussion)look.
by this defintion the man is gay.

physical definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a woman but is genetically male.
by this defintion he would be straight.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a non op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a woman.
by this definition this man is gay.
3rd example:a man is attracted to a post op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a woman.
by this definition this man is straight.
4th example:a man is attracted to a post op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a man.
what is this man by this definition?straight or gay?

psychological definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a man and is genetically male.
by this definition this man would be gay.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a m2f transsexual.this m2f transsexual looks physical like a man.when you would see this person on the street you would say thats a man.
by this definition this man would be straight.

3rd example:a man is attracted to a f2m transsexual.this f2m transsexual looks physical like a woman.when you would see this person on the street youz would say thats a woman.
by this definition this man would be gay.

depending on how you or other people define gender you see yourself or other people see you as straight or gay.

i consider ts's to be women. I even view their penises as a female body part.

I'm thinkin' we have three sexes...because of Mother Nature's propensity to play tricks on the human race. There are women born as men and, vice versa. If a woman, tricked by nature has decided to live the life she knows herself to be, I believe she should be physically and morally accepted as such. That being said, I am of the opinion that sex with a transgendered lady is NOT homosexuality.

This thread is so gay...

I don't personally think that there's anything that makes a person gay, if you're into the same sex, that's what it is. Personally I don't identify as straight or gay, I just like who I like...

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Originally Posted by elo

what makes a person gay?interesting question.its comes down to,its all a question of definition.a question of how you define gender.when you are sexually attracted to the same gender you are gay or bi.but what is gender?you can define gender in different ways.
genetical definition:
XX chromosomes=female
XY chromosomes=male
physical definiton:
a person with a penis=man
a person with a vagina=female
psychological definition:
a person which feels psychological to be a female is female.
a person which feels psychological to be a male is male.



examples:

genetical definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a woman but is genetically male.(being genetically male but physical female from birth on is really possible)
by this definition this man would be gay.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a m2f transsexual(it doesnt matter what is between the person legs)which has a female(i let it up to you to define what female is,it would leed to far in this discussion)look.
by this defintion the man is gay.

physical definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a woman but is genetically male.
by this defintion he would be straight.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a non op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a woman.
by this definition this man is gay.
3rd example:a man is attracted to a post op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a woman.
by this definition this man is straight.
4th example:a man is attracted to a post op m2f transsexual.when you would see this person on the street you would say its a man.
what is this man by this definition?straight or gay?

psychological definition:a man is attracted to a person which has from birth a vagina,defines herself as a man and is genetically male.
by this definition this man would be gay.
2nd example:a man is attracted to a m2f transsexual.this m2f transsexual looks physical like a man.when you would see this person on the street you would say thats a man.
by this definition this man would be straight.

3rd example:a man is attracted to a f2m transsexual.this f2m transsexual looks physical like a woman.when you would see this person on the street youz would say thats a woman.
by this definition this man would be gay.

depending on how you or other people define gender you see yourself or other people see you as straight or gay.

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a whole second half to that popped up that i didnt see before, sorry!

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Originally Posted by El Nino

You are such an emormous twit. What if somebody gets a biology because they are simply interested in the subject matter and content... and don't give a shit about entry jobs or money?? Ever thought of that, ya schmuck? More-over, most Physicians get either a bio degree or pre-med degree before continuing onto medschool. A bio degree is a good foundation, so don't go around telling people its a useless degree. You're a real annoyance on this board.

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Wow, thanks, El Nino. :)

Phobun, I'm not the most brilliant person on earth. I am hoping my biology major will help me get into Dental School.

It's very competitive to get into a dentistry program. So, I'm very happy El Nino emphasized that pursuing basic knowledge in the biological fields are not a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by rockabilly

How does one become a "gay" ?

... It's spread like the rage virus in "28 Days Later" only instead of becoming a rage zombie you become a fabulous fashionista.

Am i right?

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You are indeed right, rockabilly. In fact they've already made a movie about it...

LaCosa, I actually hold B.Sc. in biology myself... Got offerings into two medical schools by professors I worked with (UVM and Tufts). Didn't take them up on it... at that point I needed a break from schoolwork! Go to dental school, it's an attainable goal!

yes, then u can whip me up a new grill and i'll take good care of u =P~~

INteresting thread.

I have always been attracted to women and have yet to find a man physically attractive. I say 'as yet' as I never rule anything out...life's too short! :-)

BUT, yes, I do prefer TS ladies as opposed to those that have been women since birth. I have always found them more attractive, often better company and prefer the obvious physical relationship differences. :)

Am I gay? No. Am I Heterosexual? By dictionary definitions, probably not. Do I care? not in the slightest. I am who I am and I will always enjoy the company of TS ladies. Some people talk of a 3rd sex...maybe, maybe not...but if that is the case...then I'm a fan. Not too bothered with labels.

Mark

Sorry

I am a female and any man who likes me is simply attracted to a level headed, open minded, well grounded female who just happens to think the Giants are going to win this year! :)

Kisses
miami

I think that we as social beings find comfort in defining ourself because we feel the need to relate to those around us. In a world where 1 out of 6 billion can make us feel insignificant, we embrace common interests so we don't feel so alone. We are born into this world living the dreams of those before us. Telling us who we are and what we should be and how we should be. (four agreement). The need for the approval of our society tends to over shadow the complexity of human sexuality because we live not only to please ourself but also those around us. When it comes to our sexual compound, between point A being straight and point B being gay, we are all somewhere in the middle hormonally and our sexuality an endless variable. (kinsey). However, we define ourself as gay, bi, st8 and freaks to cover that endless variable). The word gay is only created to cattle up a group with common interests. That term however no longer exist when you are focusing on individuals. 6 billion people, 6 billion sexuality. Only you can say what you are.

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Originally Posted by RubyTS

yes, then u can whip me up a new grill and i'll take good care of u =P~~

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And I would be so lucky. :)

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Originally Posted by YasminLee

I think that we as social beings find comfort in defining ourself because we feel the need to relate to those around us. In a world where 1 out of 6 billion can make us feel insignificant, we embrace common interests so we don't feel so alone. We are born into this world living the dreams of those before us. Telling us who we are and what we should be and how we should be. (four agreement). The need for the approval of our society tends to over shadow the complexity of human sexuality because we live not only to please ourself but also those around us. When it comes to our sexual compound, between point A being straight and point B being gay, we are all somewhere in the middle hormonally and our sexuality an endless variable. (kinsey). However, we define ourself as gay, bi, st8 and freaks to cover that endless variable). The word gay is only created to cattle up a group with common interests. That term however no longer exist when you are focusing on individuals. 6 billion people, 6 billion sexuality. Only you can say what you are.

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So much wisdom, you have gained in your life, Yasmin. Great thoughts and a very articulate response. Thanks for shedding some real light on this board. ;)

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Originally Posted by toopretty

i consider ts's to be women. I even view their penises as a female body part.

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You're definitely gay / homosexual as are all the cockhounds . If you like sucking ts cock or taking it up the booty, you ain't straigt, u r GAY.

you need to get more of this to 'straighten' you out! :dancing:

Gay, straight, bi... it does not matter what others think.. It only matters how you feel about yourself.
I've struggled with my own sexuality to the point where I attempted suicide on several occasions. I have always viewed myself as female and view my attraction to men as normal. I lived full time through the 80's in San Diego and knew many of the girls in SD and L.A. (Dana, Candy, Cassandra...). Somewhere along the way I contracted HIV and dropped out of the scene. One of my worries was that people would think that I was gay. Several attempts of suicide and a couple of years of therapy brought me to a point where I can accept who I am. Labels can be very hurtful. If you have nothing nice to say to another, you should never say anything at all. Diversity makes the world a better place!

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Originally Posted by Paladin

You're definitely gay / homosexual as are all the cockhounds . If you like sucking ts cock or taking it up the booty, you ain't straigt, u r GAY.

you need to get more of this to 'straighten' you out! :dancing:

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Any man with more than 20 posts on HA is a balls out faggot, Paladin.:jerkoff

THIS MEANS YOU.:whistle:

Seriously, what's up with the dudes who troll HA calling out guys for digging Ts??:hide-1:
Dudes like you are straight-jacket mental.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Any man with more than 20 posts on HA is a balls out faggot, Paladin.:jerkoff

THIS MEANS YOU.:whistle:

Seriously, what's up with the dudes who troll HA calling out guys for digging Ts??:hide-1:
Dudes like you are straight-jacket mental.

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Lets see dufus, your post count is over double mine, and you've been on the board a little over 1.5 years, while i've been on 6.5 yrs.

So,

Who's the cockhound, chasing faggot who spends all his time on this ts board????

I thought so...