What do you think.
Is it ok to defer to someone as a tgirl?
Could it become a slur?
Thoughts?
Is this an acceptable word - and would girls be happier with it? Would it be less objectionable to be profited from?
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What do you think.
Is it ok to defer to someone as a tgirl?
Could it become a slur?
Thoughts?
Is this an acceptable word - and would girls be happier with it? Would it be less objectionable to be profited from?
This! Just 'TS' works, too.
~BB~
You can never keep everyone happy. I know plenty of girls some industry, some not, who dislike girl or TS or trans. Its woman or nothing for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
As I said in the previous thread i find being referred to as "he" or "it" the most offensive. Especially by people who referred to you as she or her quitee happily before finding out you are trans and then well yea. That shit sucks.
You didn't answer the questions though?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Where did that word come from?
Could it become a slur?
And a new question, why is "tgirl" better than "tranny" ?
How did it become THE "word" ?
I prefer Tgirl as well...and I consider it to be short for Transgender girl. Could it become a slur? Folks have to LET it become one...like the word queer or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
Can't really explain it...it seems less offensive to me (I rarely use the word "tranny" except when it's in a title of a movie or something of that nature).Quote:
And a new question, why is "tgirl" better than "tranny" ?
How did it become THE "word" ?
tgirl has a nicer ring to it than tranny or shemale, pardon the pun. :D but some will feel like tgirl is to general and they are being lumped with TV, CD etc. and there will be a mixture of much whining and much rejoicing. amen.
I dont think that Tgirl would become a slur, as it doesnt sound harsh, and i do use this word when i am referring to M 2 F girls. Shemale is also another word that shouldn't be a slur, it sounds very much like female, if "female" is not a slur than "shemale" also shouldn't. thats my thoughts, you guys can have your opinion.
When I first started off in the industry I specifically chose this word as the marketing word for a few reasons, most of which were business and search engine related. The primary reason though was because back then it seemed like it was a word that not very many people (read: industry models) were using and one that was immediately recognizable (warning: alternative content ahead) and didn't automatically imply breasts, which is why I didn't choose to primarily market myself as "shemale".
For those who actually remember, my website used to be: Krissytgirl, the Krissy4u - Naughty Amateur Tgirl, and now Krissy4u - Naughty Asian Tgirl. Personally, I don't think the phrase has, or ever will really come into widespread usage because, as someone already noted, it is mostly used by the casual CD/TV crowd when I've come across it. On a business level, yes or course, I would support any efforts to "mainstream" the word since I'm listed on page one of Google for "Asian Tgirl".
As for it being a better word... smart enough to understand what you're doing here and I would suppose that (as has already been done, actually), the posters here will prove the point.
It's because 'tranny' is a dismissive word and one that people have historically used as a slur. 'T-girl' is more technically accurate as it respects a person's identity as female, utilizing the word 'girl.' However, I do agree with Sammi that, with my 35th birthday on Thursday, it's still sort of belittling to some of us older women... but then porn is all about youthfulness and beauty, right? So under that circumstance, I can live with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
My preferred term in my personal life is simply 'woman,' but if a distinction must absolutely be made between me and a genetic female, I'll also gladly accept 'trans woman' or 'TS.'
~BB~
Oh, and I also agree that there is a conflict in using 'tgirl' due to its appropriation by the CD/TV community, but that's really just another reason to take it back. It doesn't belong to them. They're not girls.
~BB~
Yeah, I thought you would walk back your earlier post sooner or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
"appropriation" ??? "take it back"??? "belong"???
So now we're saying that people OWN words?
You know, the CD/TV crowd are, largely, NOT girls but even so... most that I've come across are more "lady-like" than you are or will ever be.
I haven't 'walked back' since this is a different thread, but OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
And yes. Groups of people can own words. Black people call each other the n-word all the time, but I DARE you to call them that.
~BB~
And you know, I was going to ignore the 'ladylike' comment until I realized that if you believe a woman should always be docile and submissive... you might be a misogynist.
~BB~
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. You are totally right. All the time. Without fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Look. For those reading this. I'll provide you with a little comic relief.
Do you want to know what exactly was going through Bella's mind when she saw and read this thread? As follows...
Oh.My.God. I've done it. I've actually done it. Steven is actually considering doing away with the word "Tranny" and using another word!
*this said as Bella gives herself a big bear-hug*
OMG.
See, I am relevant.
See, I was right.
See, everyone does listen to me.
See, I am powerful.
See, I am awesome.
OMG OMG OMG.. what should I do now? I mean, I don't want to sound too eager... I'm supposed to wait 3 days, right? 2 days? OMG, I'm so excited. Just think of the credit I can take for this once this campaign to use the word "Tgirl" starts! I'll be famous (well, more famous than I am already).
OMG
OMG
OMG... What do I do??
Well, at the very least, I should say I agree. But of course, I can't sound too excited about it or it will give me away. I'll just put, "yes"... sounds nice and sincere, right?
OMGOMGOMGOGOMGOMGOGMOGOMG. OH MY GOD! I am awesome!
Then... later on, recognizing she gave an unequivocal "yes" to using the term "Tgirl" without actually thinking it out... has to walk it back.
That folks, is the mind of Bella Bellucci for you. It isn't hard to figure out.
I don't expect for a second that Steven will change a damn thing, so there goes your entire argument. In fact, I think the entire discussion is a lark to increase post counts. The only reason I'm biting is because it's an important conversation, regardless of why it's being had.
~BB~
What do you want me to change?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
You've a core misunderstanding here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Nobody OWNS a word. I choose not to use the N-word because I RESPECT (something you know nothing about) Black people enough to realize it carries with it a history of PROVABLE violence, oppression, and literal slavery. I might add, if you're doing it (not using the word) out of fear of a beat-down, your motives are incorrect since fear is a motivator based on punishment or pain and not respect.
NOT choosing to use a word out of respect isn't giving up "ownership" of it. It is simply respecting the wishes and desires of the individuals involved.
Oh, and you still haven't answered any of my very legitimate criticisms of you. I'm not impressed by your attempts at distraction.
~BB~
Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
Billy Joel - Just The Way You Are - YouTube
~BB~
Then why make a comment about "not expecting me to change anything"?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I don't understand - what am I doing now that's a problem - and what would you have me change?
If this is directed at me. List your "legitimate criticisms" and I'll address them point by point in detail. Unlike you, I'm not afraid at all of discussion. In point of fact, it is you who dodge incessantly, throwing back insults because you have no logical grounds on which to base an argument and sending messages in PM because you're a coward to say them out loud, right here, right now. If you let the public know who you really were... this is why you're a coward.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Look we know where this is going so I'll save you the trouble.
Bella's next post (if this was indeed directed towards me):
I'm not going to list them. You're too stoopid to figure it out. You haven't answered anything and you drone on and on. I'm smart. You're not. You're wasting my time and I've got a business to run. I have a worldwide brand and I don't have the time to sit and argue with silly crossdressers.
I'm brave. Poor me... everyone bullies and picks on me. I'm just being an independent woman and standing strong against all this oppression being ladled upon me. Nobody understands what I go through every day. Being me is hard.
OK, I took some poetic license with the second part. Pretty much the first part though.
So the n-word is not OK, but 'tranny' is? Even though the only difference between the two groups is a HISTORY (not a current condition) of physical slavery on the part of blacks (even as many argue that ANY oppression is slavery - especially that suffered by trans women), while very often IN OUR CURRENT DAY AND AGE trans women are also violently beaten by people utilizing words of hate simply because they're different.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Wow. Double-standard, much?!
Look, it's obvious to me why you like the word so much. As a crossdresser, the word 'tranny' replacing the word 'man' is a sort-of upgrade for you. But from my perspective as a woman who lives in the heteronormative world, it's a downgrade. Your identity is trans, and despite my history of transition, mine is not. I'm not trying to disrespect you for that, but you would disrespect me because I'm not as queer as you or others?
And people wonder why there are so many trans-separatists out there.
~BB~
THAT'S what the coward thing was about? You're totally underthinking this. Publically saying what I said to you in private would have been a board rule violation. I'm not falling for that trap. Cowardice has NOTHING to do with it. Everyone here knows I can't stand you. So what? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
~BB~
PROVABLE history... PROVABLE.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I asked you in the other thread... PROVE THE DIRECT CORRELATION. You have yet to do so and cited some stupid excuse as to why you could not.
A video of the "Precious" (I'm not going to attempt spelling her name from memory!) girl hardly proves your point.
So, you say your legitimate criticisms aren't being answered. I've already stated I will answer ALL things you list as criticism point by point.
You answer this one:
PROVE there is a DIRECT CORRELATION (that is, "cause and effect" relationship) between usage of the word "Tranny" and the things you cited (murder, suicide, homelessness, poverty, etc. etc.).
I'm waiting.
Well, I'd like you to transition the niche towards using less controversial terminology, but I don't expect you to. But really Krissy is the one who brought it up in claiming that I see this as some kind of win/lose game. Talk to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
~BB~
It is sheer and utter cowardice to PM someone and say the things you say when you won't say them publicly. I think ANYONE will agree to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
It is even more so when you admit readily that you only do it privately because you want to keep yourself from being banned here.
It is the very definition of the word "cowardly".
I'm not going to bog this down with a million sources and grant you your semantic (read: distractive) argument, but one quick jaunt over to the Transgender Law Center should give you all the numbers you need to prove the COMMON KNOWLEDGE that trans people are violently oppressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resour...sfactsheet.pdf
Of course, you wouldn't know anything about it because you're not actually trans. Again, how's that male privilege working out for you?
~BB~
So now you think I'm dumb enough to let you taunt me into doing something to have action taken against me? Wow, for someone who's such a bully, you are REALLY bad at it! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Bye, Felicia. I'm done with you. Twist my words all you like. Those who really care will read what I actually wrote.
~BB~
Do you really believe anyone falls for this crap that you let spill from your mouth?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Do you so easily forget what you have written? "I win" - "I'm right" - "You're wrong" - I could EASILY pull up probably at least 50 instances where you have stated in some form or another that you see ALL arguments you are a part of as win/lose game. Maybe you do have some form of short-term amnesia or something... possibly get that looked into at your next doctor's visit.
Just let me know when you want me to start pulling those up.
OK, again with the put-downs. So, you're in essence saying that you can't back up what you say and all you have is to put someone else down.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
AGAIN... we're discussing the specific usage of the word "TRANNY" in relation to CRIMES COMMITTED (this was your original beef... just to remind you, you know... because of the short term amnesia thing).
AGAIN... PROVE A DIRECT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE USAGE OF THE WORD "TRANNY" and MURDER, SUICIDE, POVERTY, HOMELESSNESS, and dying puppies. (Ok, I'll give you the last one for free.)
We're not discussing the fact that Transgender people suffer more / less hate crimes, which is what your link addresses.
And WHO dodges the actual question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Like Tgirls?
Grooby has done more to propagate the usage of this word more than any other one source/company/group that I know. Although we didn't coin the term, we were one of the very first websites to start using it and have spent $1000's branding the word and using it as a word for Transsexuals.
I'd suggest we wouldn't be having this discussion about the word "tgirls" - if this adult company, hadn't started using it in so many of it's titles, promotions and properties.
Now ... what EXACTLY has your contribution been - to pretty much, anything, other than poison and spite?
Yeah, OK. First of all, there are lots of sites out there changing their terms. Eros and most cam sites quickly come to mind. So while I'm glad help, and I appreciate your effort, you're not alone... and you're not some kind of hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobySteven
As to my contribution, I have been railing against the words 'tranny' and 'shemale' for so long that people don't even remember that they're a huge part of the reason that you and I personally have had issues that never seem to get resolved, and that again, it adversely affected my career.
You want to talk about walking the walk? Couple that with the fact that my site uses NONE of the questionable terms and is one of VERY few that can say that, and I think the case could be made that I made one of the first and certainly the most self-sacrificial contributions to this cause.
If you want to hate me for opposing your marketing plan, that's fine, but you at least owe me the respect of being honest about it.
~BB~
I'm not taunting you. I'm not trying to goad you into getting yourself banned. In fact, I have stated publicly on this board on more than one occasion, I am RARELY in favor of censoring and / or banning anybody from a public forum for any reason. PROVABLE - I've said it. If you were to be banned, for stating an opinion, I would readily defend your right to be here, as I've done in the past with others. That being said, I don't own the board and the rules aren't mind to enforce.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I'm exposing your cowardice. You put up this big front... like you're some behemoth of logic and clarity. You're a fraud - intellectually.
If you argue your points with logic, there is absolutely NO REASON to send a PM to somebody since your public discourse will do the talking for you. I am consistent in what I say, logical in the way I state it, and not afraid to defend or argue my points. I have no need of a PM system because I'm not afraid of anything I've said. You clearly are.
"Tgirl" sounds childish, to me.
Oh, and another thing Steven: accusing people of being 'vile' and 'poison' and whatever other hyperbolic black-and-white insults you sling at people simply because they disagree with you is almost dogmatic in nature. You are not god, and everyone who opposes you is not the devil. Get a grip.
~BB~
And yet you've no problems using the terms yourself on YOUR PERSONALLY BRANDED blog... marketing the material...? Etc. Etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Enough said. Why don't you start being honest?
We WERE pretty much alone - and WE ARE the ones those cam sites, dating sites, etc. come to for advice on the terms. We do it all the time. I'm not a hero - I'm doing what we've always done, which is promote Tgirls positivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
No you didn't - you never railed against anything other than snide remarks and failing at every mission statement you've had. You never had a career to be affected, get that out of your fantasies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
a) Your site which is ... months old and reaches maybe a few dozen people? Big fucking deal. You made ZERO contributions to this cause, get that into your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
b) I don't hate you. I think you have huge paranoia and ego issues that need resolved. I don't know what you are "honest" about - but I have very very little respect for you, other than the soap box here, that you give me to stand on every now and again.
Topic is CLOSED.
Go to sleep Bella, you're not making any coherent sense.
How about dickchix ? (joking)
Seriously though, why not transsexuals?