Basically, it's a game of chicken where Biden has the advantage because everyone knows that if they put public pressure on him and he still refuses to go it will make things even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
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Basically, it's a game of chicken where Biden has the advantage because everyone knows that if they put public pressure on him and he still refuses to go it will make things even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
Ignoring the age problem and deciding to run again has been the major misjudgement, but I think failing to take those two issues seriously enough were also bad misjudgements. I know Trump sabotaged the border deal, but it was stupid to wait until the election year to act. They were also warned at the time that the stimulus was too big.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
The consistent pattern has been that rather than recognise problems and change course to deal with them, they have tried to dismiss the issue.
It was Dean Phillips who ran against Biden, not Doug Jones.
I saw the interview of Historian Heather Cox Richardson that she did with Christian Amanpour that you posted earlier,it was very informative and she made alot of good points. Donald Trump and the people at Project 2025 vision fthe United States is very dark and downright terrifying. Agree: that often in politics power is lost by the people who have it due to their own failures,that is the why the Democrats need to do everything they can over the next four months to things around. And also agree the news media has enabled Donald Trump to bluff his way through despicable crimes and contempt for the US Political System,and US Supreme Court has also helped him by giving him absolutely immunity to do whatever he wants. And the United States and Democracy is in peril,from the damage Donald Trump can cause that will cost a generation of Americans the fundamental freedoms that were taken for granted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Or they could pray for divine intervention.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
“If the Lord Almighty came down and said, ‘Joe, get out of the race,’ I’d get out of the race,” Biden said. “The Lord Almighty’s not coming down.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...rview-00166691
People who believe in God might want to explain the creation of Volcanoes, Donald Trump and Malaria. On that basis, I don't think God's judgment is valid.
Looks like this issue is, at it were, dead and buried, unless....
The good reasons for Harris, without explaining how. One does point out that were Biden to drop out and Newsom win the Convention Harris would have to re-register as a resident of Washington DC.
Nothing wrong with the arguments, it is the process that is at fault -or as said before, Biden wins but doesn't stay the course and Harris becomes President when he can no longer do the job.
Would Trump agree to a public 'debate' with Harris? Should she tempt him into one?
Opinion: It’s Time to Get Used to the Idea of President Kamala Harris (yahoo.com)
Prominent Democrats calling for President Joe Biden to step aside,are getting louder everyday. And his performance in the sitdown with ABC News really didn't do anything to squash those calls. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/06/lis...-2024-campaign
And another one -in the last week I have seen more positive articles on Kamala Harris than I have seen in four years. Some feeding going on, methinks (setting aside the relentlessly negative articles on Harris and Biden in the Telegraph).
What would a Harris candidacy mean for the elusive independent woman voter? | US politics | The Guardian
It will be interesting too see over the next two weeks,how many more Democrats from Congress and the Senate will be calling for their leader President Joe Biden to step aside,and let someone else run at the top of the ticket. And how many will be standing with and telling him to stay in the race,and will it cause a rift in the Democratic Party?.And both sides eventually settling their differences and coming together and support their nominee,and helping him defeat Donald Trump and his enablers in November.
The media will not stop piling on until Biden leaves the race.
Meanwhile, they have no qualms about Trump being the Republican candidate.
Completely agree,it's 24/7 nonstop with the newspapers and news media piling on Joe Biden. But those same newspapers and news media aren't for calling for Donald Trump to step aside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
Looks like you are progressing from stage 1 to stage 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
Attachment 1459431
This article makes a good counter-argument.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/blaming...-got-democrats
"But some critics seem shocked that the New York Times, for instance, isn’t acting as a partisan organ for the Democratic Party. That wouldn’t serve the interests of the public, however, it certainly wouldn’t serve the interests of the Times — and if the past two weeks are any indication, it wouldn’t serve the interests of the Democratic Party anyway. The moment the Good Guys act like they have all the right answers — and that they are even entitled to tell “noble lies” when it suits the public interest — is when they start to become hard to distinguish from the bad guys."
More Kamala love, a spirited contribution too=
Opinion: Racism, Sexism, Power—and the Case For and Against Kamala Harris (yahoo.com)
A very thoughtful and fiery response from President Joe Biden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
It's telling that nothing in that letter addresses the key question, which is why should voters believe he is capable of doing the job for another 4 1/2 years. It's all very backward-looking. I haven't seen a single Biden defender address this question. Apparently, we are all supposed to just ignore the elephant in the room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
It is a sad, possibly tragic moment for the US, when a proven liar, convicted criminal and someone who promises a day of dictatorship is even running for the Presidency with support from a party he has, historically, never been part of, with a compliant media whose focus is not on the threat posed by Trump and his agenda, which after all contains policy commitments that most Americans don't want.
At the very least, vote Biden to get Harris, in year one or two. Was that always the agenda? Consider the way in which Hillary Clinton became the candidate, a decision made long before the Primaries. The only question might be, how soon after the Inauguration can Joe be convinced to retire?
That's the job of the campaign. No one is ignoring Biden's age. It's the only thing anyone is paying attention to.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Exactly. If Harris the replacement candidate, the succession is already assured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Doesn't this beg the obvious question: if Biden would be prepared to step down in her favour in a year or so, why is he not prepared to do so now? If he isn't intending to serve out another term, and people know and accept this, why is he even running? If (as you claim) people are happy to vote for Biden knowing they are really getting Harris, then why would they not be equally happy to vote for her directly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
The problem is not Biden's age, its whether he has the mental acuity and physical capability to not only campaign for President, but be an effective leader for another 4 years. I mean it wasn't the media who told Democratic governors that Biden needs to be in bed at 8:00 PM, those was his words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
The people who are complaining about the media, what else do you want them to do in regards to Trump. For a majority of his administration and after it, they have covered all of his crimes and transgressions. To the point, I have seen some of those same people wondering if that coverage has taken away the media's attention from the Biden's administration's successes. Most Americans realize the potential threat to democracy a second Trump term would pose. It is not the media's fault that the Republican base didn't get the message. Or if they did, they just don't care.
The media is not supposed to be a cheerleader for whoever currently resides in the White House. The second it does that, it ceases to be a free media and it becomes a state sponsored one.
There were also sources from his office that said he was okay from 10am to 4pm, but not so good other times. I'm sure Putin and Xi Jinping would not be so ungentlemanly as to start a crisis outside of these hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two...2024-president
PS: it's not adequate to just respond that Trump is worse. If Republicans are nominating someone who is not fit for the job that is not a reason for Democrats to also do so. It makes it even more important to nominate someone who is capable of both campaigning effectively and doing the job for the next 4 years.
It's also not adequate to say that Biden should drop out without naming a replacement. The candidate can't be a hypothetical more competent person. Even the Democrats who have been most vocal about Biden stepping down have been very quiet about who they think should step up, and not one has actually stepped up.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Announcing to the world that you have no faith in your own candidate isn't a very effective strategy for winning an election.
For obvious reasons, nobody is going to step up unless Biden indicates he's willing to step down, so that's a circular argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
I'm not sure who the best replacement would be, but I think we are at the stage where it's better to acknowledge the problem and try to do something, rather than remain in denial and keep sleepwalking toward disaster. "Ignore all the bad polls, we are doing fine" is not a very good strategy for winning elections.
Also, if you really believe that it doesn't matter if Biden can't serve until 2029 because Harris can take over, then aren't you effectively saying that she would be a reasonable replacement?
You are also missing the point that there is huge downside risk here. Biden has clearly declined over the past 4 years, so there's no reason to think it can't get worse. It's common in elderly people for decline to start out gradually and then accelerate at some point.
Here is an article from Politico.com on who could replace President Joe Biden,if he ultimately decides to step aside. https://www.politico.com/interactive...ent-pros-cons/
Not seeing any inspirational candidates there. Whitmer keeps saying she has no interest in running now, as does Newsom. It'd be a pity to start a campaign with a lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0
California Governor Gavin Newsom and Michigan Gretchen Whitmer are both part of President Joe Biden's reelection campaign,and aren't interested in running right now. Agree it definitely would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
As opposed to the current candidate? It's a pretty low bar to clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
As opposed to pretending that Biden is fine and perfectly capable of being President for another 4 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
And yet here we are. I guess Biden can't count on your vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
President Joe Biden will be holding a news conference at the White House @ 6:30pm this evening. And will be interesting to see how Democrats in the House Of Representatives and US Senate respond to his performance in the coming days. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-n...2024-campaign/
You are demonstrating exactly why the party has got itself into this horrible position - finding excuses to ignore inconvenient evidence and insisting that everyone support the leader without question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
I am not in any party. The type of doubt you are flogging cannot be assuaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
There are two choices for this election. The race has always been close. If the Democrats switch candidates, that will actually increase doubt further, as it demonstrates an undeniable lack of confidence in their own choice. No candidate has ever popped up a few months before a presidential election and won it.
The more things change, the more they stay the same:
https://www.npr.org/2024/07/12/nx-s1...den-trump-poll
The longer the infighting goes on between President Joe Biden,his campaign and the White House on one side,and on the other side House and Senate Democrats calling for him to step aside,the more it benefits Donald Trump and his allies who will be using it to their advantage. President Joe Biden,House and Senate Democrats needs to find a way to come together,settle their differences and resolve this issue and keeping their eyes on the prize,which is telling voters about Donald Trump and the dark and horrific vision he has in store for the country,and the major threat he and his allies are to democracy. And also educating voters about Project 2025.
Only if you cherry-pick polls and ignore the overall trend. There's been around a 2% shift in Trump's favour in the polling averages since the debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...2024/national/
https://www.realclearpolling.com/pol...-west-vs-stein
That's, that's not as big as some people thought, but it's still in the wrong direction when Biden was already lagging before the debate. He's not going to win by just winning the national vote, and he's now well behind in almost all the swing states.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/ele...eground-states
There have been only two cases where a sitting president dropped out in the election year, and two data points are not enough to infer any general rule. Presumably, they dropped out because they thought they were going to lose anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
https://www.vox.com/politics/359431/...cox-richardson
There have been successful candidate changes in other countries. Only in America is it considered somehow impossible to change anything a few months out.