Classical Music, Poetry and stuff

[Stavros]

I can't cope with Copland, I have an as yet undefined theory that there are certain combinations of notes, some harmonies that my brain rejects: something about the tone of a Copland piece, particularly the parts he writes for the strings-its like root canal treatment without anaesthetic. For some reason I recall the Ornette Coleman section in AB Spellman's Four Lives in the Bebop Business -I dont have the book so this is from memory -someone who said to OC during a break in his set that if he didn't stop playing he would blow his brains out, and I don't think it was a race thing. Claims the way OC played tenor sax (as he did in the early part of his career) made this guy feel that bad...I am not going to take a gun to a Copland concert, but I can't explain it, mreley say that to me its poison; as is, incidentally, rhubarb.

[Stavros]

The famous blues musicians got famous because of white hippies from the UK who proclaimed this musician or that musician to be a musical god

Sir (or Madam) you are well informed!
In addition to Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Peter Green and Jimmy Page, there was a radio DJ called John Peel who did more than anyone to introduce people like me to Johnson with his show The Perfumed Garden on a pirate radio station called Radio London c 1965.

You are of course right about the cultural thread, which is not as clear as historians would like it to be. Sometimes we say things because they fit a model. I did an evening class in Jazz History in the 60s where I lived in 'Greater London' where the 'historian' -in his day job he was a professional photographer- went through the origins of Jazz from African slaves and the 'Field holler' of southern plantations -I believe a lot of work was done on this by people like Alan Lomax. It's a rich heritage, and Johnson stands out because of the quality of his songs, the mystique surrounding his life, and so on -the people I mentioned were, of course, important to me: but also, in the 60s, the ones whose recordings were available in Dobell's on the Charing X Road -time marches on, we know more than we did in those days -link below, and look out for Blind Boy Grunt...
Doug Dobell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[FawlenAngelle]

What a surprise and a fabulous thread--here's a genius I am partial to:
Django Reinhardt!



(Banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler.)

[runningdownthatdream]

What a surprise and a fabulous thread--here's a genius I am partial to:
Django Reinhardt!



(Banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler.)

Genius and Gypsy!

[runningdownthatdream]

The famous blues musicians got famous because of white hippies from the UK who proclaimed this musician or that musician to be a musical god

Sir (or Madam) you are well informed!
In addition to Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Peter Green and Jimmy Page, there was a radio DJ called John Peel who did more than anyone to introduce people like me to Johnson with his show The Perfumed Garden on a pirate radio station called Radio London c 1965.

You are of course right about the cultural thread, which is not as clear as historians would like it to be. Sometimes we say things because they fit a model. I did an evening class in Jazz History in the 60s where I lived in 'Greater London' where the 'historian' -in his day job he was a professional photographer- went through the origins of Jazz from African slaves and the 'Field holler' of southern plantations -I believe a lot of work was done on this by people like Alan Lomax. It's a rich heritage, and Johnson stands out because of the quality of his songs, the mystique surrounding his life, and so on -the people I mentioned were, of course, important to me: but also, in the 60s, the ones whose recordings were available in Dobell's on the Charing X Road -time marches on, we know more than we did in those days -link below, and look out for Blind Boy Grunt...
Doug Dobell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Awesome! Had never heard of the Blind Boy Grunt character before. I guess we do need to thank Alan Lomax and your own Dobell for appreciating the blues and helping bring it the rest of the world.

The more I research, the more I see that the cultural lines were indeed blurred among the poor in those times. For instance Charlie Patton I mentioned before MAY have been either white or mixed and how about Jimmie Rodgers:



People mostly think of cowboy music as 'white' music and while it was indeed influenced by all the northern and western europeans who ended up in the American West, let's not forget that the great majority of cow 'boy's were black!

We are all far more connected than we know...................btw I'm a Sir!

[Stavros]

As the music industry changes so do the cultural threads: 'back in the day' a good record shop didn't just have a stack of obscure recordings, they also had the staff whose enthusiasm for the shop meant if you weren't sure what that record was where Coltrane played with Miles -and there was no internet, no google -the guy behind the counter or someone in the shop knew. Dobell's wasnt a shop, it was a library -and a studio -we have lost that. As for music, its like language: all human languages share meanings, even if the precise grammar of expression is different -the tonality of Oriental music might be different from European: but our ears adjust and we can enjoy most things, taste aside. Slavery and capitalism seem to be huge influences on western popular music....

[robertlouis]

As the music industry changes so do the cultural threads: 'back in the day' a good record shop didn't just have a stack of obscure recordings, they also had the staff whose enthusiasm for the shop meant if you weren't sure what that record was where Coltrane played with Miles -and there was no internet, no google -the guy behind the counter or someone in the shop knew. Dobell's wasnt a shop, it was a library -and a studio -we have lost that. As for music, its like language: all human languages share meanings, even if the precise grammar of expression is different -the tonality of Oriental music might be different from European: but our ears adjust and we can enjoy most things, taste aside. Slavery and capitalism seem to be huge influences on western popular music....

Here in the UK if you're lucky enough to have one of the surviving Fopp shops locally you'll still get that service from interested and knowledgeable geeks. There aren't many, but their staff in my experience have the same knowledge and enthusiasm for their product that used to mark out Oddbins from all the other High St wine chains until they became another commodity for vulture capitalists.

I grew up with Bruce's record shops in Glasgow and Edinburgh, they were wonderful places too.

[Stavros]

Interesting, some years ago I had to spend some time in Aberdeen and was told by locals there that all the independent book shops had closed, leaving a chain called Ottokar's, I think. I was also dismayed at the limited cd's and dvd's on sale in the HMV there. I can't recall being impressed by the situation in Edinburgh, but its a larger city and I didn't have as much time to explore as I wanted to, even though it stopped raining on my two days off. The main HMV shop on Oxford St in London seems to be the only shop with a comprehensive collection. I think some Fopp shops were re-branded as Head.

[robertlouis]

Interesting, some years ago I had to spend some time in Aberdeen and was told by locals there that all the independent book shops had closed, leaving a chain called Ottokar's, I think. I was also dismayed at the limited cd's and dvd's on sale in the HMV there. I can't recall being impressed by the situation in Edinburgh, but its a larger city and I didn't have as much time to explore as I wanted to, even though it stopped raining on my two days off. The main HMV shop on Oxford St in London seems to be the only shop with a comprehensive collection. I think some Fopp shops were re-branded as Head.

In Edinburgh, there's a very good and pleasantly eccentric record/bookshop at the bottom of Leith Walk, but I can't remember it's name, and another good independent in Stockbridge, but they're both away from the city centre and harder to find. The HMV shop on the north side of Oxford St certainly has a terrific range of classical music, and always used to be good for folk, alternative acoustic and americana, my popular musics of choice, but I haven't been there for years. I think Fopp started in Scotland, so there's still a good one in Byres Road in Glasgow, and another in Edinburgh, but these days my plastic incurs most of its damage at the Cambridge shop in Bridge St.

[Stavros]

Change of subject, and as a guitarist RobertLouis -have you any of the Schubert song cycles with guitar? Of the two that I have, Die Schone Mullerin with Peter Schreier and Konrad Ragossnig is outstanding, the haunting song Die Liebe Farbe in particular works well with guitar; for some reason Winterrreise is recorded with two guitars, the Folkwang Gitarren Duo -Scott Weir, the tenor does a good job but doesnt have the dramatic range of sensitivity to pull the cycle off, but its an interesting comparison with the single guitar, as well as coventional piano. Can't find samples on youTube but you might have the recordings anyway. The Ragossnig used to be in HMV on Oxford St, I bought the Winterreise on amazon.

Some recommendations for recordings of classical guitar would be welcome, for family reasons.