Coronavirus

[Stavros]

Here is who gets the vaccine first:
People aged 50 and above.
People in their 40s' with severe preexisting conditions*
All front line workers. That includes people in the service and retail industry.
*-Even though I'm 46 with HTN that is controlled with medication, I'm willing to wait until the second round of vaccinations.
I think once everyone has been vaccinated, you can SLOWLY lift mask mandates and make wearing them voluntary.

You are a reasonable man, and there is nothing in your post I disagree with, but in reality, is this how the vaccine, if it is available, will be distributed across the USA? Will it be available to rural communities in Mississippi at the same time as it is in New York City? Will it even be available in Puerto Rico? I regret to say your country is not very well organized when it comes to 'national action' when the leadership required is lacking at the top, or the Men at the Top make decisions to undermine national efforts for political gain...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-into-thin-air

A useful overview of Boris Johnson's record on the management of Covid 19-
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nd-spike#img-1

[broncofan]

To make sure that elderly people get groceries and medical care, we keep doing the same things that we did during the lockdowns. Supermarkets set aside special hours for them to shop. For routine care, many hospitals are now offering virtual visits. Be they through the telephone or Skype. Family members can help them get to doctor's appointments and/or surgical procedures. There is also things like Access-a-ride or Para Transit.

If they live in assisted living, you take the same precautions that you were doing before. That includes making sure that you don't send people back into the homes that haven't fully recovered from the Corona Virus yet.


If we can figure out way to get kids safely back into the schools, I say we should take that chance. If we can figure out way to keep businesses open, while at the same time keeping people safe and healthy, I say we should take that chance.

Even if an effective vaccine is developed by the end of this year, its going to take at least another month or two to manufacture, distribute, and inoculate people. So we are looking at February/March before things get back to normal. That's a semester and half for children to be out of school. Plus a lot longer to subsidize certain businesses and for people to be out of work.

Activities that are relatively safe when the outbreaks are under control can be high risk when you have the worst outbreaks in the world. The reason we've never suppressed the virus is because we never showed the diligence other countries have and often were content with more people dead and no benefit.

Germany, for instance, got hit hard and had pretty bad outbreaks. Yet they, like most developed countries suppressed the virus. If we had been as successful as Germany we'd have had 120,000 fewer deaths at no cost. It's also worth pointing out that with 4.5 million people infected, there is a high likelihood that approximately 800,000 of these people have long-term symptoms, from post-viral fatigue akin to chronic encephalomyelitis to organ damage. I can link to articles, but I don't know why people think it's been okay to let a new virus spread all over the fucking place.

The reason I point this out in response to your post is that we seem to be in a pattern of choosing the most lax option, having tens of thousands of people die needlessly with no gain except the illusion of normalcy or some idea of ourselves as stoic.

A few minor things:
1. It's unlikely there is sufficient data on vaccines by December, but if there is the entire point of operation warp speed is that the vaccines are produced by the time the data is available. We are producing at risk. That does leave distribution though.
2. Senior care facilities are not just getting infections through obvious administrative negligence. Even well run care facilities have outbreaks because it's difficult to ensure staff don't get it, and the residents are in and out of the hospital. My uncle is at a facility where they forced him to get a test even when they weren't available before allowing him back. He was in limbo at the hospital until a test was available. This is a super cautious facility....they now have outbreaks despite their efforts probably bc we have lots of cases in our county.
3. You don't actually have to commit to close schools for the winter semester or until there's a vaccine. It is actually possible to suppress the virus like every other country so that there are a low level of cases. Schools can be opened if outbreaks are under control. Opening schools with the virus everywhere seems somewhat insane. Major league baseball tests every person almost daily and because they weren't closed off to the public, they've had tons of outbreaks already. I think what you're saying is the type of thing that sounds good and then just doesn't work.

[sukumvit boy]

Just some thoughts about 'Plague Art' . And perhaps some great Halloween costume ideas.
https://cvltnation.com/triumph-of-de...ic-plague-art/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Bruegel_the_Elder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague...matic%20items.

[Stavros]

Most of you will be aware that as the virus continues to grow in places like India, as the US record a grim statistic with cases exceeding six million -six million! and no comment from the President!- but with the worrying trend for a spike in new cases in the UK and Europe, I fear that there is a simple cause: we have ended isolation too early.

I understand the enormous pressure to revive the economy, but it seems to me that the evidence shows that just as more people congregate in pubs, cafes and shops, so the inevitable has happened, because even with reductions in infection rates, this virus has a persistence that makes it cruelly difficult to defeat. In the long term, people may acquire some immunity, a vaccine, or vaccines will be developed -and modified as vaccines often are- and some return to pre-Covid normaity will emerge, but I don't see this happening until the Spring of 2021 at the earliest, I hope someone can tell me why this should not be so.

As for the rush to produce a vaccine in the US without proper trials, this is a disgraceful, but typical tactic of the President to manipulate Covid 19 for his morally bankrupt crusade. We wait and see how this pans out, but I for one remain restricted to the town in which I live, the only modification made being trips to Cafes, and once, to the Cinema. Not sure if I shall be so liberal when Winter comes.

Be safe out there, because the virus is still in search of your proteins.

[sukumvit boy]

I for one, agree on all of those issues Stavros . I would just add that it is also important for people to get there yearly flu vaccinations this fall to avoid a 'double whammy' .

[Rover177]

Double the number of cases of annual flu but only half the number of deaths; perspective is needed.

[sukumvit boy]

I for one, agree on all of those issues Stavros . I would just add that it is also important for people to get there yearly flu vaccinations this fall to avoid a 'double whammy' .

Here's more on the Corona Virus/seasonal flu virus possible 'double whammy' effect.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6506/890

[Stavros]

Thanks for this link. I would say as a general comment that in the UK we do now have something approaching a Covid-19 infrastructure with reference to the clinical landscape, from PPE to purpose built 'Nightingale Hospitals', plus the hugely important legacy of practical treatment, so if there is a significant new wave, we ought to be able to 'hit the ground running'.

What we do not have is an adequate test and trace system. People arriving in the UK from abroad be it by Rail, Sea or Air are not tested on arrival, and I have not been made aware of any local test facility, it is in my view a major failure which the Govt has not addressed even though from the start, in January the WHO was insisting on the importance of testing.

You may also know that in addition to fever, coughing and a loss of taste and smell, other symptoms are now associated with Covid 19, such as Delirium, Covid Toe and skin rashes, Conjunctivitis, and inflammation in children, they are discussed here-

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a9620741.html

[Fitzcarraldo]

I haven't read this report, but apparently it links over a quarter million cases to the Sturgis motorcycle rally:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp13670.pdf

[Stavros]

I haven't read this report, but apparently it links over a quarter million cases to the Sturgis motorcycle rally:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp13670.pdf

The paper highlights two critical issues: attitudes toward social distancing, and the cost of infection. I fear that because people are being infected but not dying, a complacency in some areas, defiance in others -the South Dakota rally is an obvious example- is making control of the disease either impossible or useless, but that as a result the costs of health care have increased, and this, in the US where the costs of health care are already too much for many households. I can understand the frustration with the rules, but they exist for a reason. And to make this worse, I think enough people may decide that some will die, and that is just tough on them, but which also means Covid 19 is going to be around for a long time. I feel for those who are behaving responsibly and having their security undermined by cynics who may be making a visit to the supermaket an ordeal.

And it doesn't help when the President, instead of leading by example, holds rallies where there are no masks, and no social distancing, and ridicules his opponent in the Presidential contest for doing just that. But I am not surprised.