Donald Trump Presidency-Day One

[Stavros]

I think what makes this Story more than just the Traffic Accident you can't look away from is the almost guaranteed surprise ending that's going to pop out of the cake when Mueller announces his findings. tick tick tick.

If Mueller is allowed to complete his investigation.
The one point of importance I ought to have made above, is the extent to which facts, and the truth are no longer driving decision making, as if they were irrelevant to the investigation. That the Nunes Memo is biased and does not tell the whole of the truth makes it a worthless document, legally, but politically it is now all about perception and news manipulation, the headline rather than the story. This may just be the way news is broadcast these days, and it has always been manipulated but I do think this is politics going to places it never used to before, and that is why I think citizens should be concerned. We have a different agenda in the UK, one marked by incompetence rather than lies, yet Brexit too could lead to the break-up of the UK. The only people who benefit from this are those who regard democracy as a mess, and that they should be free to pursue their interests without regard to accountability to the public, or the law.

[buttslinger]

When I was a Cub Scout, we went to tour the FBI building in DC, and at the end an agent came out with a Tommy Gun and blasted off a whole barrel clip, each kid got a bullet riddled silhouette target as a souvenir.
One time in the hall at Elementary school, Hank Dent was going up and down the halls with his eyes so wide open he couldn't tell me what was going on. These were the same halls we did Abomb Tests in, and that was the day JFK got shot, later, Hank's Dad was disgraced in the Watergate Hearings. I used to play in their house, his Dad gave me my nickname. In College, at a Student Demonstration, a Police Car blew up down the street, and the Police pushed the crowd so hard I thought my bicycle was going to literally crush me to death against a parked car. I was so shook I was running down a side street and some girl grabbed my arm and said "don't run" ...I calmed down immediately and we very surreally walked down the middle of the street while Cops on Horses were billyclubbing running Students. When I was in my car and flipped on Nixon saying "I am not a crook" on the radio,I thought it was a comic impersonator, Being President was a completely different thing back then. The Media was different, Woodward and Bernstein were quite controversial in their time.
Trump did something no other Republican dared do, a Rush Limbaugh Impersonation. They wouldn't do it because of what's happening right now, trying to deliver on the promises Conservative Media give their listeners is a recipe for failure. Just like giving Big Business everything they want is a sugar high that will eventually rot your teeth.
Of course the Russia Investigation has eclipsed all that, if Rush Limbaugh himself had run and won, it might have really altered American Politics when he failed miserably, because it's all about Trump and Trump only, yeah, we've never seen anything quite like this.
Trump isn't a Republican, or Politician, He's probably looking for the Love his Father never gave him as a child, or something. This has become as Psychological as much as Political, Hopefully, Trump's Aides that have any sense can corral him like that girl who grabbed my arm.
Sacking Mueller would be a trainwreck.

[Stavros]

Trump isn't a Republican, or Politician, He's probably looking for the Love his Father never gave him as a child, or something. This has become as Psychological as much as Political, Hopefully, Trump's Aides that have any sense can corral him like that girl who grabbed my arm.
Sacking Mueller would be a trainwreck.

When it comes to the Constitution and the Rule of Law, he doesn't care, it is as simple as that. Instincts set in, survival at all costs is all the matters. I wonder how many close to him have advised him to shut up about the Russia investigation but he cannot be controlled, which is why his aides are terrified of him being interviewed by Mueller, because he has no prepared script and cannot stop telling lies. There is now speculation that if the investigation continues, Hope Hicks could become a crucial witness, but as someone allegedly loyal to the Greatest President in the History of the USA it is not known if she will turn against him.

Meanwhile the Generals are planning an overhaul of defence materiel to produce 'tactical' nuclear weapons that can be used on the battlefield; they are dithering over Syria because they don't know if they should defend the Kurds from Turkey's attacks, or stand by as they are slaughtered. Looks like another long weekend.

[broncofan]

When it comes to the Constitution and the Rule of Law, he doesn't care, it is as simple as that. Instincts set in, survival at all costs is all the matters. I wonder how many close to him have advised him to shut up about the Russia investigation but he cannot be controlled, which is why his aides are terrified of him being interviewed by Mueller, because he has no prepared script and cannot stop telling lies. There is now speculation that if the investigation continues, Hope Hicks could become a crucial witness, but as someone allegedly loyal to the Greatest President in the History of the USA it is not known if she will turn against him.

Unless there is something to hide, all of his maneuvers have definitely made things worse. If there's something to hide, maybe he has sowed enough confusion to de-legitimize the investigation among people who are hopelessly compromised and unable or unwilling to look at the facts. There are already people on the right who are pretending the memo means something and that it indicates there were surveillance abuses. It's a bit frightening because we don't know how far this bad faith goes. There is no conceivable basis for concluding what they've concluded.

It is a bit exhausting to recount the facts to swaths of people on the right who have no regard for them. But here is some of what we know: Page has been under surveillance since 2013, from before the dossier came into existence and before he was associated with Trump. The basis of his surveillance and the findings from it have not been revealed but are almost certainly substantive to withstand so many renewals. The people who were responsible for overseeing the most recent renewal of the fisa application were all Republicans. There is nothing to indicate his surveillance didn't meet standards for fisa applications or that there could have even possibly been a political motive, since his surveillance dates to long before his association with Trump. The Russia investigation apparently began with Papadopoulos as a focal point anyway.

As you say, they don't care about rule of law or the Constitution.

[broncofan]

The basis of his surveillance and the findings from it have not been revealed but are almost certainly substantive to withstand so many renewals.

Someone I follow on twitter who runs a national security law blog made this further point but it is something to consider. In 2013, surveillance began on Carter Page because he was fraternizing with all sorts of Russian state actors. When they review the warrant for surveillance, the Judges at the FISC consider what the surveillance has revealed in order to renew it. If the Republicans really wanted to seriously scrutinize this issue because they were certain he should never have been under surveillance, they would have de-classified the entire basis for the renewal. They did not because a Judge would not renew multiple surveillance warrants that did not turn up actionable intelligence.

De-classifying snippets of information to pretend that must be all that exists and then blocking the release of the real basis for the issuance of the warrant is disgraceful. There has been a collective loss of reasoning ability and good faith on the right wing that is now almost epidemic.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=broncofan;1819429
De-classifying snippets of information to pretend that must be all that exists and then blocking the release of the real basis for the issuance of the warrant is disgraceful. There has been a collective loss of reasoning ability and good faith on the right wing that is now almost epidemic.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate your attention to the procedural aspects of this, and it may be that in the long term if the Investigation proceeds, rules and regulations may be an important part of the conclusion.
The fear must be that the whole purpose of this Presidency is based on the view that America is Broken, but broken beyond repair, and that what you need is a new arrangement of politics. The question asked: is this illegal? when it receives the reply No, is confirmation that the President can do something which may violate norms, but that is the point, to do things differently and to be an 'activist' President where in the past office holders have been cautious in their behaviour. Moreover, to the extent that this plays well with the core voters, it is because they support the idea that their interests have been betrayed by Washington DC and that it is just this kind of person who can shake things up and make a difference.

At its heart this may actually be more about one man's obsession with himself, while the rest of America can go whistle, and so far it appears the deep structural changes that are intended to replace the broken system have not even been assembled, but the President and his Republican cheerleaders can pump out the propaganda that this is something never seen before.

The end result could thus indeed be a broken system, but without any replacement. A Congress hopelessly divided, a breakdown of public trust in institutions like the DOJ and the FBI,and a deeper mistrust of politics and politicians. The US was in a similar crisis at the end of Watergate which involved not just the Presidency in disgrace, but the military withdrawal from Vietnam, the Congressional hearings into the CIA, the perceived weakness of Gerald Ford. On that occasion the US repaired itself, but that is because the players were committed to playing by the rules. It seems to me that among the leading players in this drama, there is not even a sentimental attachment to the roots of American democracy, so on this occasion you could end up with a system that is severely damaged or truly broken while the kleptocrat responsible retires to New York to count the millions he made from the Presidency, declaring himself innocent for the rest of his life.

[broncofan]

I appreciate your attention to the procedural aspects of this, and it may be that in the long term if the Investigation proceeds, rules and regulations may be an important part of the conclusion.
The fear must be that the whole purpose of this Presidency is based on the view that America is Broken, but broken beyond repair, and that what you need is a new arrangement of politics. The question asked: is this illegal? when it receives the reply No, is confirmation that the President can do something which may violate norms, but that is the point, to do things differently and to be an 'activist' President where in the past office holders have been cautious in their behaviour. Moreover, to the extent that this plays well with the core voters, it is because they support the idea that their interests have been betrayed by Washington DC and that it is just this kind of person who can shake things up and make a difference.

At its heart this may actually be more about one man's obsession with himself, while the rest of America can go whistle, and so far it appears the deep structural changes that are intended to replace the broken system have not even been assembled, but the President and his Republican cheerleaders can pump out the propaganda that this is something never seen before.

The end result could thus indeed be a broken system, but without any replacement. A Congress hopelessly divided, a breakdown of public trust in institutions like the DOJ and the FBI,and a deeper mistrust of politics and politicians. The US was in a similar crisis at the end of Watergate which involved not just the Presidency in disgrace, but the military withdrawal from Vietnam, the Congressional hearings into the CIA, the perceived weakness of Gerald Ford. On that occasion the US repaired itself, but that is because the players were committed to playing by the rules. It seems to me that among the leading players in this drama, there is not even a sentimental attachment to the roots of American democracy, so on this occasion you could end up with a system that is severely damaged or truly broken while the kleptocrat responsible retires to New York to count the millions he made from the Presidency, declaring himself innocent for the rest of his life.

Great points. I think in the end you're right though the types of laws one can expect a President to violate will not be the ordinary statutes that a private citizen does. His crimes should always expect to be a little bit fuzzier because they deal with abuses of power, self-aggrandizement, and obstruction. Ultimately what matters are the procedures and requirements of an impeachment process which I don't know very much about, except the number of votes and that they're looking into "high crimes and misdemeanors." But you portray the big picture accurately which is a breakdown of our system without much remedy.

This is the Democrats' rebuttal for those who are interested. It says some of the things I've been saying, but all in one place and with a lot of supporting evidence.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_...nes%20Memo.pdf

[sukumvit boy]

Trump wants a military parade...
http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/politi...ump/index.html

[buttslinger]

Trump wants a military parade...

I live outside DC, sometimes they have Military Shows at Andrews Air Force Base, they're actually pretty cool, you can crawl around inside a Tank or an old B-17.
But a Military Parade down Constitution Ave is as stupid as a big beautiful wall. Millions of dollars wasted to stroke Trump's ego. They haven't even found the leftover millions from the Inauguration yet.
D. C. in the summertime is pure heat and humidity.
Please don't tell me they're planning it on May Day......

[trish]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Child in Chief has ordered the troops to learn the goosestep.