I think all straight men like shemales.

[flabbybody]

If straight guys like transsexuals then there wouldn't be violence against transsexuals by guys who find out they are transsexuals.

That's the tired excuse that scumbag defense attorneys use when the perp is charged with assault against a transgender. It was actually used in a homicide case when an escort was murdered by a deranged psychopath.

[danthepoetman]

I think that Nysprod's "theory" is simply badly formulated. If I might suggest this formulation, to which Nysprod might or might not suscribe: "I think there is no reason why straight men shouldn't be attracted by a feminine being who look, feel, think, walk, talk, act, smell and conduct herself like a woman." If that's what he meant, I totally agree with him. And as the say goes, "if it walks like a duck and quack like a duck, well, it IS a duck". The only reason why someone wouldn't then, be attacted by such a person when he's attracted by women, is because that person has a cock. They can't get beyond that. Is it legitimate? Well, on what basis or from what perspective? The question could be judged from many...

[bluesoul]

"I think there is no reason why straight men shouldn't be attracted by a feminine being who look, feel, think, walk, talk, act, smell and conduct herself like a woman."

i don't think doing all those things make you a woman though, because then you're implying all women look, feel, think, walk, talk act and smell a certain way.

there are certain things about a woman that are unchangeable, which is really the only thing that all women have in common and that's their chromosomes (as jamie pointed earlier).

btw: anyone remember the Caster Semenya case? there is a reason why people didn't ask her "so what gender do you consider yourself" and resorted to dna testing. because just like they say in law enforcement: "blood doesn't lie"

[danthepoetman]

i don't think doing all those things make you a woman though, because then you're implying all women look, feel, think, walk, talk act and smell a certain way.
there are certain things about a woman that are unchangeable, which is really the only thing that all women have in common and that's their chromosomes (as jamie pointed earlier).
btw: anyone remember the Caster Semenya case? there is a reason why people didn't ask her "so what gender do you consider yourself" and resorted to dna testing. because just like they say in law enforcement: "blood doesn't lie"

That's highly debatable. It's like asking what is death: heart stopping for a certain time, brain activity, cellular degradation? In this case, many other elements could be considered as constitutive of what a woman is, and the chromosomes are sometimes a bad one. For instance, women with CAIS, Complete Androgen Insensivity Syndrome, comes out of the womb as completely constituted girls, and they grow up as girls. Their chromosomes are, in a way, lying... There are numerous disorders that will dissociate the phenotype from the genotype, in someone, many that will also produce intersexuation phenomena, in which someone will be in-between, phenotypically, despite what the chromosomes are saying. There are also many chromosomic disorders that will distinguish the phenotype from the genetic program. Simply saying, "it's the chromosomes that determines everything" is an over simplification.
Recent neurological discoveries also tend to show that the sense of identity, and mainly the sense of sexual identity has a basis in a very precise location of the brain, and it appears more and more that many things can go "wrong" in the fetal developement to produce this particular type of intersexuation which consist in someone with a genotype and possibly a phenotype that are masculine and a sense of identity that is feminine.
Moreover, we have lived under the christian influence for so long, Bluesoul, that we still constantly tend to see things in double, if you will; you know, this schizophrenia which we've been thaught for centuries upon centuries that we are double beings, body and soul. The hard fact is, despite what we still tend to think, sometimes the appearances are not a superficial layer of reality but most of that reality itself -what you see is what you get.
So in the end it's complex, much more complex than that. And in the precise case we're talking about, I think it's very narrow minded not to concede anything to these women -so obviously women, in many cases-, and make a bunch of fags out of them. On the contrary, it's absolute nonsense.
And as to guys having desire for these women, Bluesoul, heterosexual desire for these women or any other, wouldn't you think it as more credible to imagine that they're attracted by these elements I enumerated in my previous post rather than by their chromosomes?

[maddygirl]

I never said anything about females and trans girls...and I didn't equate being attracted to shemales as necessarily being attracted to dick.



Maybe they didn't want to admit it, and maybe you didn't have deep enough discussions.

To be more specific "being attracted to" does not mean they will act out, jerk off to, or in any way accept their feelings...just as with some hetero men who have longings for other men occasionally, the feelings are deeply buried.

And there have been numerous instances of men who have murdered transsexuals after having had both consensual and non-consensual sexual relations with their victims...of course, there also have been instances when a man had no idea of the reality and then flipped out beforehand.

If all men are attracted to "shemales", then why are you so scared to confess to your family that you like them?

[nysprod]

If all men are attracted to "shemales", then why are you so scared to confess to your family that you like them?

If and when I meet one that i think can be serious about a relationship, I will...until that happens, there's no reason to.

[Jamie French]

Here's the thing about the chromosome arguments made here... on a board like this we really aren't talking about a handful of folks who live with a physical medical condition, (messed up chromosomes and other wacky chemical goof ups) we're talking about the kind of people that draw men to these boards. Most every performer (maybe one or two that I'm not aware of as exceptions) known to the guys of this board have perfectly fine and completely functional Y chromosomes. The medical anomalies are rarely fit for a job like this, for a slew of obvious reasons. (Also, the death analogy: When all systems have finally stopped working without help of outside influence. That's a pretty simple one... any single example of a kind of death is not death in and of itself just and indication that actual death is close at hand.)

That's highly debatable. It's like asking what is death: heart stopping for a certain time, brain activity, cellular degradation? In this case, many other elements could be considered as constitutive of what a woman is, and the chromosomes are sometimes a bad one. For instance, women with CAIS, Complete Androgen Insensivity Syndrome, comes out of the womb as completely constituted girls, and they grow up as girls. Their chromosomes are, in a way, lying... There are numerous disorders that will dissociate the phenotype from the genotype, in someone, many that will also produce intersexuation phenomena, in which someone will be in-between, phenotypically, despite what the chromosomes are saying. There are also many chromosomic disorders that will distinguish the phenotype from the genetic program. Simply saying, "it's the chromosomes that determines everything" is an over simplification.
Recent neurological discoveries also tend to show that the sense of identity, and mainly the sense of sexual identity has a basis in a very precise location of the brain, and it appears more and more that many things can go "wrong" in the fetal developement to produce this particular type of intersexuation which consist in someone with a genotype and possibly a phenotype that are masculine and a sense of identity that is feminine.
Moreover, we have lived under the christian influence for so long, Bluesoul, that we still constantly tend to see things in double, if you will; you know, this schizophrenia which we've been thaught for centuries upon centuries that we are double beings, body and soul. The hard fact is, despite what we still tend to think, sometimes the appearances are not a superficial layer of reality but most of that reality itself -what you see is what you get.
So in the end it's complex, much more complex than that. And in the precise case we're talking about, I think it's very narrow minded not to concede anything to these women -so obviously women, in many cases-, and make a bunch of fags out of them. On the contrary, it's absolute nonsense.
And as to guys having desire for these women, Bluesoul, heterosexual desire for these women or any other, wouldn't you think it as more credible to imagine that they're attracted by these elements I enumerated in my previous post rather than by their chromosomes?

[maddygirl]

Here's the thing about the chromosome arguments made here... on a board like this we really aren't talking about a handful of folks who live with a physical medical condition, (messed up chromosomes and other wacky chemical goof ups) we're talking about the kind of people that draw men to these boards. Most every performer (maybe one or two that I'm not aware of as exceptions) known to the guys of this board have perfectly fine and completely functional Y chromosomes. The medical anomalies are rarely fit for a job like this, for a slew of obvious reasons. (Also, the death analogy: When all systems have finally stopped working without help of outside influence. That's a pretty simple one... any single example of a kind of death is not death in and of itself just and indication that actual death is close at hand.)

It's not a handful of folks. There are quite a bit of natal born females living with the condition. It is a valid argument because it's the truth. Classifying gender based on chromosomes is a flawed approach that has been proved wrong countless times.

[bluesoul]

That's highly debatable. It's like asking what is death: heart stopping for a certain time, brain activity, cellular degradation? In this case, many other elements could be considered as constitutive of what a woman is, and the chromosomes are sometimes a bad one.

actually, my comment concerning chromosomes was mainly to point out that being a woman is simply beyond what's on the surface, and what you see, and also about what you don't see. truth is absolute; it doesn't favor opinion nor is it interchangeable. so when you talk about "intersexuation phenomena" this helps explains why some people feel a certain way, but it doesn't make their truth THE truth.

as to your other comment "heterosexual desire for these women or any other, wouldn't you think it as more credible to imagine that they're attracted by these elements I enumerated in my previous post rather than by their chromosomes?"

actually i completely disagree. again, this isn't about what i prefer to imagine. each person has their own personal reasons of why they are attracted to another person- some are good reasons (such as their attraction to personality) and some are superficial (their social status/money).

i'd also prefer not to get into the "body and soul" discussion as that's another topic i tend to disagree with and feel isn't relevant at this point unless i'm missing something.

[maddygirl]

actually, my comment concerning chromosomes was mainly to point out that being a woman is simply beyond what's on the surface, and what you see, and also about what you don't see. truth is absolute; it doesn't favor opinion nor is it interchangeable. so when you talk about "intersexuation phenomena" this helps explains why some people feel a certain way, but it doesn't make their truth THE truth.

as to your other comment "heterosexual desire for these women or any other, wouldn't you think it as more credible to imagine that they're attracted by these elements I enumerated in my previous post rather than by their chromosomes?"

actually i completely disagree. again, this isn't about what i prefer to imagine. each person has their own personal reasons of why they are attracted to another person- some are good reasons (such as their attraction to personality) and some are superficial (their social status/money).

i'd also prefer not to get into the "body and soul" discussion as that's another topic i tend to disagree with and feel isn't relevant at this point unless i'm missing something.

Actually, your statement "blood doesn't lie" infers that every woman with XY chromosomes is less of a woman than those with XX. So, essentially every woman on this board isn't a woman? Lol. Hm, ok.