17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[yodajazz]

You can't trust thugs or their people to tell the damn truth. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/06...est=latestnews

We put labels on people, such as "thugs" to take away their humanity. It's ok to kill thugs, I guess. I believe that Trayvonn Martin was a human being. Once, in my late teens, I was jumped. Then someone else jumped me a couple days after that when they noticed the bruises, from the first incident. I guess they took me for an easy mark. Right after that I adopted the look, of a group a people that were known to be tough. I was never bothered again. I even remembered, seeing some people cross over the street, to seemingly avoid walking past me. I was not a 'thug'. I went to graduate from college, and have lend a criminal free life, outside of traffic infractions. People should not have to die because of the way they look. There is a difference, a teen being photographed raising his index finger, and someone capable of murder. Would a reasonable person feel fear if someone was following them at night? Young people are sometimes 'jacked' even for candy, let alone other more very serious scenarios. It's all about granting human status for all humans. The assumption that Martin was a criminal, is the reason he is not alive today. But humans today have rights to a justice system, to determine if they have treated justly. Martin's parents deserve to have a closer version of what truly happened to their son.

I want to know that I can walk to a store, and not be assumed to be a criminal. I walk for exercise sometimes. I want to know that my own life means something to the greater society. I am not a thug, I am a human being.

[trish]

yodajazz's post just reminded me of this opinion piece in today's nyt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/op...?smid=pl-share

[Prospero]

Excellent post Yoda

[yourdaddy]

want to know that I can walk to a store, and not be assumed to be a criminal. I walk for exercise sometimes. I want to know that my own life means something to the greater society. I am not a thug, I am a human being.

Then tell your thug friends to start acting like human beings.

[Stavros]

Frankly, yourdaddy, your post is so far removed from the tone and meaning of YodaJazz's post it is embarrassing.

[fred41]

yodajazz's post just reminded me of this opinion piece in today's nyt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/op...?smid=pl-share

Damn, I remember when that was in the papers. All I could think was - "It's Forest Whitaker...are you serious??!!". He has a tremendous body of work...he's my age (old).and he looks my age...he's Forest Whitaker...it's Chelsea...what the fuck??!!..It's Forest Whitaker...he could buy that store..how do you not recognize him - he's got that eye...it's fucking Ghost Dog!!!

He handled it with an AMAZING amount of grace and class...it seems he cared a lot more about the employee than perhaps I would have...

Listen,when I was young (young...he's not young)...I had experiences like that...(I was even accused of the same thing...the difference being I had a broken bottle held to my throat by one of the owners of the store - a stoned biker...lol)..but i looked like shit and hung out with shit...

..he just looks like Forest Whitaker.
Christ.

[trish]

Now I've got an urge to see BIRD again.

[Willie Escalade]

You can't trust thugs or their people to tell the damn truth. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/06...est=latestnews

This is definitely true...those thugs at Fox News are some serious liars...

[natina]

YODAJAZZ & TRISH MADE SOME GOOD POST.

I WAS TRYING TO GET BACK ON SUBJECT WITH zimmerman having NO SYG HEARING.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/op...?smid=pl-share

We put labels on people, such as "thugs" to take away their humanity. It's ok to kill thugs, I guess. I believe that Trayvonn Martin was a human being. Once, in my late teens, I was jumped. Then someone else jumped me a couple days after that when they noticed the bruises, from the first incident. I guess they took me for an easy mark. Right after that I adopted the look, of a group a people that were known to be tough. I was never bothered again. I even remembered, seeing some people cross over the street, to seemingly avoid walking past me. I was not a 'thug'. I went to graduate from college, and have lend a criminal free life, outside of traffic infractions. People should not have to die because of the way they look. There is a difference, a teen being photographed raising his index finger, and someone capable of murder. Would a reasonable person feel fear if someone was following them at night? Young people are sometimes 'jacked' even for candy, let alone other more very serious scenarios. It's all about granting human status for all humans. The assumption that Martin was a criminal, is the reason he is not alive today. But humans today have rights to a justice system, to determine if they have treated justly. Martin's parents deserve to have a closer version of what truly happened to their son.

I want to know that I can walk to a store, and not be assumed to be a criminal. I walk for exercise sometimes. I want to know that my own life means something to the greater society. I am not a thug, I am a human being.

yodajazz's post just reminded me of this opinion piece in today's nyt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/op...?smid=pl-share

BUT ZIMMERMAN IS A LIAR


George Zimmerman Will Not Tell The Truth




George Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to His Honor, the Court, or the public. When Zimmerman took the witness stand at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing, he lied under oath in two forms: acts of omission and blatant falsehoods.


Zimmerman took the stand to make a self-serving statement in the cloak of an apology, but the message’s audience was for the media and a candid public, not the parents of the slain Trayvon Martin. It should be noted that O’Mara allowed this disrespectful action to be undertaken and His Honor did not stop it, either.

The faux apology given to turn the tide of negative media attention:
O'MARA: You advised me that you wanted to make a short statement, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Correct.
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
O'MARA: Nothing further, your honor.

George Zimmerman took the stand and performed for the media. The narrative was starting to change and the fickle media started pretending as if both the dead, unarmed minor, Trayvon Martin, and his confessed killer, George Zimmerman, were victims. This is absolutely incorrect. Man profiled, stalked, chased, and ultimately killed the minor. Those are the facts. Furthermore, Zimmerman lied on the stand about how old he thought Trayvon Martin was. When the non-emergency dispatcher asked how old Zimmerman thought the supposedly “suspicious guy” was, Zimmerman said “late teens.” 17 would classify as late teens. Let’s let that percolate into our collective conscience for a moment. A 28-year-old adult male tells the dispatcher that he believes a minor is indeed a minor and he stills exits his vehicle, with gun holstered, to chase after the “fucking punk” who would not get away. I can’t speak for Angela B. Corey, but when I heard this, I thought for sure any doubt about her over-charging Zimmerman went away.

State’s Attorney asking what took so long for the faux apology:
DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry, sir, you're not really addressing that to the court. You're doing it here to the victim's family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: I understand. But I thought you were going to address Your Honor, Judge Lester, not -- so that's really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you've done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No sir.
DE LA RIONDA: You never stated that, did you?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
DE LA RIONDA: You told that to the police?
ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements, I said that I felt sorry for the family.
DE LA RIONDA: You did?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And you're sure you said that?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.
DE LA RIONDA: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.
DE LA RIONDA: And do you remember if it was a male or a female?
ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.
DE LA RIONDA: At the time you made that statement that you were sorry?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And let me make sure the record's clear, you stated exactly what to those detectives?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember exactly what -- verbatim.
DE LA RIONDA: But you're saying you expressed concern for the loss of Mr. Martin, or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him?
ZIMMERMAN: I felt sorry that they lost their child, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: And so you told detectives that you wanted them to convey that to the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't know if they were detectives or not.
DE LA RIONDA: Officers, I apologize.
ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know if they were going to convey it or not. I just made the statement.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And then you said that you called them or you left a message for them to tell them that?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait 50 something days to tell them -- that is, the parents?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't understand the question, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything.
ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to.

Zimmerman isn’t a very good liar, or at least he isn’t a believable one. When De La Rionda asked if he expressed the same sentiment to the police that he was expressing 50+ days later in His Honor’s Court, he said, “no.” Then he says he did express the sentiment. When De La Rionda asked who he told that too, he resorts back to the tried and the true, “I don’t know/I can’t remember” line that he used when he was questioned by Serino. I’ll get to that in a moment. I’m sure it’s not going to come as a surprise, but I’ve listened to everything that was released by George Zimmerman Legal Case, and I can tell you all that he never expressed remorse, contrition, or anything resembling sorrow for killing an unarmed minor. Before the stress test, he does ask a female police officer if she slept well, and he does ask her if she has “ever had to kill anybody,” as if trying to draw some parallels between the murder of Trayvon Martin and her job as a trained law enforcement agent. She seemed a bit perplexed/annoyed to me and answered “no/nope.” Real law enforcement agents are trained to use deadly force as a last resort, not a first option. So this is lie #2 given by George Zimmerman at his 20 April 2012 bond hearing.

George Zimmerman perjuring himself under oath about what was said to Serino/others:
DE LA RIONDA: But before you committed this crime on February 26th, you were arrested -- I'm sorry, not arrested. You were questioned that day, right, February 26th?
ZIMMERMAN: That evening into the 27th.
DE LA RIONDA: And then the following morning. Is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And the following evening, too. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?
ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"?
O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.
JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.
DE LA RIONDA: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?
JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.
O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.
DE LA RIONDA: Would you agree you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.

Zimmerman’s most egregious lie is above. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman about how many statements he gave. Zimmerman replies. De La Rionda asked Zimmerman if he said “I don’t remember?” when Serino/Singleton poked holes in his account of what happened, using the non-emergency phone call to do so, and Zimmerman replied matter-of-factly, “Absolutely not.” Folks, that is the third lie to His Honor’s Court. George Zimmerman Legal Case has the audio still up. It is up for anyone who wants to listen to it. Make no mistake, when asked about things that didn’t add up, Zimmerman would say “I don’t know/I don’t remember.” When it was clear that Serino/Singleton were playing bad cop or no longer believed him, Zimmerman got defensive, lied, and omitted facts. He told the dispatcher he was following Trayvon. On the February 29, 2012, part 3 of the interview with Serino/Singleton; he said he wasn’t following, but walking in the same direction. When asked what type of running Trayvon was doing, he said he couldn’t remember/didn’t know. When asked why he got out of his car, Singleton bluntly said, “That isn’t what you told me.”


George Zimmerman is going to assert an affirmative defense in his second-degree murder trial. If Zimmerman has no interest in expressing fidelity to the truth in His Honor’s Court, I wouldn’t be making any long term plans for the future unless they included a prison facility
important read more;
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot...ell-truth.html
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot...ell-truth.html
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot...ell-truth.html
http://wearytravelermusings.blogspot...ell-truth.html

Zimmerman Stuns Court, Waives Right to 'Stand Your Ground' Hearing in Trayvon Martin Case


George Zimmerman's attorneys stunned court observers Tuesday when they waived their client's right to a "Stand Your Ground" hearing slated for April that might have led to a dismissal of the charges in the shooting death of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin a year ago.
However, the defense lawyers didn't say whether they would waive the immunity hearing outright. They left open the possibility for that hearing to be rolled into Zimmerman's second degree murder trial. Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain in his Florida subdivision, shot and killed the teen, who was visiting a house in the area.
The move allows the defense more time to prepare for the trial this summer, but also raises the stakes.
Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law entitles a person to use deadly force if he believes his life is threatened, and absolves them of an obligation to retreat from a confrontation, even if retreat is possible.
In recent weeks, the Zimmerman defense has suffered several legal setbacks. Judge Debra Nelson has ruled in favor of the state that Zimmerman's bail conditions should not be loosened, and that Trayvon Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump was not required to sit for a deposition about his interactions with the state's most important witness, a young woman who was the last known person to speak with Trayvon Martin before his death on February 26 2012.
It was the defense's legal maneuvering which put Judge Nelson on the bench in this murder trial. Last summer Zimmerman's team successfully argued that the previous judge, Kenneth Lester, was unfit to preside over the trial after a caustic bail ruling where he blasted Zimmerman for misleading the court about his financial situation.
Zimmerman contends that he shot and killed the 17-year-old Martin after the teen confronted him as he walked to his father's girlfriend's house. Were Judge Nelson to have accepted his account under Stand Your Ground, all criminal proceedings would have immediately stopped, and Zimmerman would have walked free.
But another unfavorable ruling by Nelson could have been interpreted by jurors as a sign of guilt. Waiving the hearing could also prevent the prosecution from picking apart Zimmerman's testimony.
Before the April hearing was waived, Zimmerman's defense set out to attack the credibility of witness 8, arguably the key witness in the upcoming trial.
Defense attorney Donald West asked the court for more information about the allegedly false account she gave attorneys. According to records obtained by ABC News she was on the phone with Martin as his confrontation with Zimmerman began. She claims he told her that he was scared of a strange man following him.
The state admitted that witness 8 lied when she stated that she did not attend Martin's funeral because of a medical issue and that there are no medical records to support that claim. The defense wanted Nelson to question prosecutors about how they first learned that this claim was not true, but Nelson refused.
The defense also asked for law enforecement biographies of both Zimmerman and Martin, in particular Martin's social media history. "It's time and money to get some of the information here and we are running out of both," said West.
In an earlier hearing the judge ruled that Zimmerman's defense could subpoena Martin's social media history but the undertaking is timely and expensive. Authorities agreed to hand over the documents to the judge so that she could review them and determine if the defense should have them.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-stun...opstories.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/zimmerman-s...ry?id=18656568

[robertlouis]

I see the thread was moved...and since far less folks come to this section, this thread most likely will fall into obscurity.

That wasn't my intention in suggesting it should be moved, Willie. It just stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb in the threads in General Discussion.

I guess if anything I was hoping that the debate might become more serious and mature. But who am I kidding? This is HA after all!