Male student gang raped by muslim youth

[loveboof]

It's called Islamophobia right?

In regard to my comments, it's called a fact. Telling me 'Christianity is fucked up too' is not a defense of Islam. This is especially true when my main beef is with religion full stop.

I have a lot of muslim friends and we have talked about their wacky beliefs many times! We get on well because we respect each other.

I was contributing to this topic with an interesting quotation from the Koran. Does that warrant mindless, panicky, limp accusations of racism/bigotry? Get real.

[yodajazz]

Well put except being wrong again. I said gangrape as an intimidation tactic is a universal phenomenon. Muslims are not unique in that regard. What is unique is a majority, indigenous population terrified to address it. Feminists from the Muslim population and child services personnel from the non-Muslim population are not shy to discuss it.

Lets say that you are right: That is, that the majority do not speak up. I assume you mean in Muslim communities. In that case, then having more dialog between communities, is something that could help bring change. In other words, the solutions involve the exchange of ideas. My main point is, that this brings greater change, than drone pilot attacks. Killing people with drone attacks is also an intimidation tactic. I personally question, how good that is in changing ideas. And speaking of ideas, if you or anyone, thinks that 'negative' behavior by Muslims is the result of words in the Koran, I could easily find words that condemn that same behavior in the Koran. I intuitively know that rape is condemned in such books. So then, those words in the Koran, or other related books, are most effective weapons to promote positive behaviors in those communities. And this then makes burning the Koran, the exactly wrong thing to do, in making a better world.

[tragicomedy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-16325953

This story discusses an investigation where the evidence was not of a high enough quality to convict. There are other links to this story indicating that the men with the Arabic names were acquitted because the officers asking them questions asked leading questions making the interpretation of their answers suspect. This does not support your argument that Muslim rape gangs are so numerous as to be an epidemic of some kind. I'm also not going to read every link you post when you've already posted several that don't say what you claim they do. If you had anything to say you would not have to deluge us with many links that don't say anything.

I see the link to the documentary of those who groom sex slaves. Sex slavery is common in many parts of the world where there are high rates of poverty. Many of these areas are not Muslim majority. I've seen many white supremacist sites claim that "white slavery" is a Jewish controlled trade. I bring this up because it is very much in line with the type of hysteria you're peddling. They also claim that African-American men rape white women at a higher rate.

What these tales have in common is that they are attempts to convince the average man that some group of aliens is raping their women or facilitating their rape. The real explanation? These individuals are not concerned about rape but view their women as proprietary and therefore their rape by an alien is more dangerous than their rape by someone of similar heritage. You would have an argument if rape were predominantly a Muslim problem or if it were relatively rare outside of their communities. However, it is all too common and in many communities. The story you tell has been told a thousand times about every swarthy group to ever set foot in a new country.

So you are dismissing real crimes which have gone to trial.and won.multiple.convictions as tales? You are a propagandist, not me.

[Prospero]

tragicomedy - I have no idea what sort of life you live or where you derive the main sources of your information. Wht is wholly clear from your original posts in this thread is that you regard islam and its followers as a threat to "western civilisation" - and Muslim men as inherently likely to rape. You've tried to play down this aspect with clouds of rhetoric and attacks on those who reasonably discern your basic attitudes as "reactionaries" (whatever you - Mr Humpty Dumpty - intend that word to mean in your curious private language) . None of your ignorant postings have proved anything apart from your own ill-informed prejudices. As i said before please show some respectable evidential material on how Muslim men, because of their faith, are more prone to rape women than other groups. I know you cannot. Those early posts stand as clear evidence of your position.

[tragicomedy]

tragicomedy - I have no idea what sort of life you live or where you derive the main sources of your information. Wht is wholly clear from your original posts in this thread is that you regard islam and its followers as a threat to "western civilisation" - and Muslim men as inherently likely to rape. You've tried to play down this aspect with clouds of rhetoric and attacks on those who reasonably discern your basic attitudes as "reactionaries" (whatever you - Mr Humpty Dumpty - intend that word to mean in your curious private language) . None of your ignorant postings have proved anything apart from your own ill-informed prejudices. As i said before please show some respectable evidential material on how Muslim men, because of their faith, are more prone to rape women than other groups. I know you cannot. Those early posts stand as clear evidence of your position.

You already discredited yourself hen it was clear you hadn't read the posts and then manufactured a critique of dissenters based on your own biased viewpoint. I have only presented 1 academic study and 1 book on the subject. I could present more. You and your ilk have presented.nothing but personal attacks and stale rhetoric. Let us not forget that I am the only person who presented original Belgian sources on.this subjext. You have produced nothing and have gotten it WRONG when you did comment.

[thombergeron]

I don't know why people raise issues with Christianity in response to a specific comment about Islam (or any other religion). This happened before when I said something or other. Is it relevant? Why point out that Christianity is ridiculous too? Do you believe I am a Christian who is simply being hypocritical?

To be honest, it does kinda feel like some PC uncomfortableness with any criticism of Islam.


As soon as we can all agree on that the better imo...

I can't speak to why "people" react in such a way, but I do so because hypocrisy drives me apeshit. There's something distinctly colonial about scouring the Internets for obscure Koranic interpretations while pointedly ignoring all the sick shit in the Christian Bible. There's really nothing that you can say about Islam that you can't also say about Christianity. So I really don't understand the motivation to chime in with pearl-clutching over Islam.

If you had said, "Religious people love rape because they hate women," that would be an even-handed comment. But you didn't. You googled "Islam" and "rape" and pasted in the creepiest thing you could find. Why do that?

My hypothesis, given the overwhelming proliferation of armchair Koran "experts" and white people with "Muslim friends" since 9/11, is that concern-trolling Islam provides convenient cover for hating on brown people. Whereas it is no longer acceptable to say, "Wogs like to fuck goats," there is very little social sanction against those who say, "The story of Ayesha illustrates the central role of pedophilia in Islam."

I don't know you at all, so I can't say whether you, loveboof, are a bigot or are just trying to be clever. But I can say for certain that the activity that you're engaged in -- nitpicking the brown people's religion while staying mum on the white people's religion -- provides cover for bigots.

[Prospero]

Tragicomedy wrote; "You already discredited yourself when it was clear you hadn't read the posts and then manufactured a critique of dissenters based on your own biased viewpoint. I have only presented 1 academic study and 1 book on the subject. I could present more. You and your ilk have presented.nothing but personal attacks and stale rhetoric. Let us not forget that I am the only person who presented original Belgian sources on.this subjext. You have produced nothing and have gotten it WRONG when you did comment."

No I made one small error - attributing to you postings from specifically racist websites. As I have already pointed out your attitudes chime with the values on these sites. I have read all your posts (bar those in the Flemish languge which i do not speak) But you have presented NOTHING at all which substantiates your racist assumptions. So don't talk piffle. Discredited? Hardly. I have invited you over and over again to offer some substantial intellectually sound evidence of your assertions about islam and sexuality which you have failed to do. My "biased" viewpoint is based on actual experience of working with Muslims, working extensively in Arab countries and on academic studies to do with radical islam - including a University fellowship which has been devoted to focusing on Islam. Your so called original Belgian sources, it appears, do not IN ANY WAY attribute these attacks to people who are proved to be muslims. Nor as Stavros pointed out has anyone actually been convicted of this. You present a farrago of prejudice and have the audacity to say the rest of us present stale rhetoric and personal attacks. Your base your views entirely on cliched prejudices.

I shan't be commenting anymore on your racism.

[thombergeron]

You already discredited yourself hen it was clear you hadn't read the posts and then manufactured a critique of dissenters based on your own biased viewpoint. I have only presented 1 academic study and 1 book on the subject. I could present more. You and your ilk have presented.nothing but personal attacks and stale rhetoric. Let us not forget that I am the only person who presented original Belgian sources on.this subjext. You have produced nothing and have gotten it WRONG when you did comment.

Unfortunately, I did waste about 10 minutes of my precious time on earth referencing all the links in your prior post. None were academic studies. One was a very brief wikipedia article about a book written in French, but none of the links provided actual content from that book. Thus, we are left with a series of anecdotal accounts -- several describing the same incident -- and an opinion piece which contains this interesting tidbit: "The Derby gang was all Asian except for one seasoned white abuser."

I do epidemiological work, and I'm continually amazed that lay people don't really understand what evidence is. For instance, this story is not actually evidence that white men are serial rapists.

Also still waiting for your Belgian sources discussing the ethno-religious aspects of youth crime.

[Prospero]

Well said thombergeron

[loveboof]

I can't speak to why "people" react in such a way, but I do so because hypocrisy drives me apeshit. There's something distinctly colonial about scouring the Internets for obscure Koranic interpretations while pointedly ignoring all the sick shit in the Christian Bible. There's really nothing that you can say about Islam that you can't also say about Christianity. So I really don't understand the motivation to chime in with pearl-clutching over Islam.

If you had said, "Religious people love rape because they hate women," that would be an even-handed comment. But you didn't. You googled "Islam" and "rape" and pasted in the creepiest thing you could find. Why do that?

My hypothesis, given the overwhelming proliferation of armchair Koran "experts" and white people with "Muslim friends" since 9/11, is that concern-trolling Islam provides convenient cover for hating on brown people. Whereas it is no longer acceptable to say, "Wogs like to fuck goats," there is very little social sanction against those who say, "The story of Ayesha illustrates the central role of pedophilia in Islam."

I don't know you at all, so I can't say whether you, loveboof, are a bigot or are just trying to be clever. But I can say for certain that the activity that you're engaged in -- nitpicking the brown people's religion while staying mum on the white people's religion -- provides cover for bigots.

Well let me set your mind at ease with the 'apeshit hypocrisy' - I am not a Christian; I think it is just as dumb. However, it would be particularly irrelevant for me to chime into a discussion about Muslims raping people with some interesting quotations from the bible about rape. Surely you can see that?

And actually, I didn't google Islam and rape then post my findings. I remembered something interesting about Islam (namely, that 'right hand possesses' thing) and thought I'd share it.

9/11 has nothing to do with anthing I have said. There was a stage when I was younger that every single one of my good friends were Muslim (happenstance and a complete lack of racism/bigotry were the likely factors). I have been friends with some of them for over 15 years, others I have lost contact with. Not a cover for 'hating brown people'. You are not in a position to tell me what I believe about anything - the best you can do is interpret the words I am saying... (not what you see in between them)

I can just as easily nit-pick white people's religion (wtf does that mean btw?), but that is not really relevant when we're specifically talking about Islam. As I said, it is not a defense of Islam to say 'Christianity is just as fucked up'.