Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
It is NOT holier than thou Stavros (my contrarian friend) - it is simple statistics. Of course there are gun nuts everyplace... but the sheer volume and easy availabilty and the near religious attitude of some (many) americans to guns makes the statistical level of killing there far higher than the few, albeit shocking, examples you quote. Yes - if guns were as easily available here i am sure we'd have, proportionately, as many deaths as the US. But the fact that we don't suggests that the far more rigorous control of weaponry here does make a difference.
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
Sounds like pre-meditated murder to me.
The point is the boy is dead! What's the point of two deaths when they should have been none? Is capital punishment the sentence for looking in someone's garage?
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Can't we combine guns with HAs? It may be just what some members want.
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stavros
But how will you know when that day has come when the SHTF? For some Americans, that day came when Obama was elected President. It is not like The War of the Worlds (which was on tv last night), where you will see giant zombies stalking the land. On the other hand, guns play a role in the mythology of America like the pilgrims and the pioneers and the sense some people may have of being isolated in a large country threatened by outsiders. But in this day and age, that is an awful lot of ironware begging to be abused....
When SHTF you'll know.. There'll be bank runs, war, death and mayhem everywhere with people killing each other over the last can of beans.. If you don't make it out of the cities in 24-48 hours after it starts.. you'll need firearms and luck..
Oh ya.. America the great USA.. Founded on the genocide of native Americans and then followed up with apartheid against the Africans which continued to the 70's.. Home of the Banksters and Black Death Dealers.. (oil)
As for others and their gun death statistics.. More Doctors of Psychiatry kill people with prescription meds than people with guns.. 40% of people that kill others with guns are on these drugs that have been prescribed..
Firearms do not kill people.. people kill people..
When some whacko is about to kill you with his/her gun for what ever you have would you prefer to be without a gun??
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
" When some whacko is about to kill you with his/her gun for what ever you have would you prefer to be without a gun?? "
When only a gun will do you better have one !!!
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
AlexisDVyne
40% of people that kill others with guns are on these drugs that have been prescribed..
Can you please give me a link where you got that stat...I was trying to find it but couldn't.
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
fred41
Can you please give me a link where you got that stat...I was trying to find it but couldn't.
You can find it here.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...=1#post1487545
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
broncofan
lol...I got it the first time...but perhaps I have a mild case of OCD because I still hit the link three times....funny....maybe I should take some medication.
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
You clearly have a lot of detailed knowledge of how your system -or systems- work, given that the rules seem to differ from state to state.
It is a necessary evil of being a fire arms enthusiast to travels from time to time... if I don't well understand the law where I am or where I am going in conjunction with what I may have on my person or in my vehicle... I may be setting myself up for a world of legal pain.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
Again, there was a time when the NRA was a leading promoter of gun control
Define 'gun control'.
At last check, the NRA is in favor of many a restriction against ownership and possession when it comes to felons and the like, they tend to oppose other things which involve less than judicial rulings.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
One small detail, that notdrunk alluded to in his post earlier strikes a chord -the right of a CLEO to refuse a licence to someone for who knows what reason.
A CLEO sign off sounds nice in theory... but actually brings us to into a rather disturbing area... where the cops can arbitrarily deny the exercising of a right to a person who has not been convicted of a crime.
Imagine a world where the local cops can deny you the right to drive, vote or speak on a street corner... not because you've been convicted of a criminal offense or have a proven track record of unlawful actions in the given area, but because they just don't like you.
Call me crazy, but I'm a fan of due process of law and not being subjected to the arbitrary whims of the local CLEO who may just have a dislike of NFA items... or the look of my shoes when I come in to get his signature.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
Can we assume that if a Black American, your equal, applies to join a Gun Trust, or applies individually through a CLEO to own a weapon, it will be given the same degree of thought that would be given to his fellow Americans? I am not persuaded that the 'checks and balances' you provide are always going to ensure that firearms do not fall into the wrong hands.
I would hope that anyone showing up seeking a signature on a form 4 would be treated equally, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, tall or short.
Short of a giant super magnet in space which is set to 'illegal gun'... nothing can fully prevent guns from ending up in the wrong hands... as sometimes even a legally purchased firearm is illegally sold, then reported as stolen.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
As I have said before, most Americans who own firearms must be trustworthy or your death roll would be far higher;
Don't say that too loudly or you may loose your cred.
We are a large nation (with regards to land area, population & armaments)... yet only a fraction of a fraction of the persons or arms here commit evil acts with them.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
but there are still too many people with mental health problems, politically motivated extremists, and others who, suddenly, go be berserk who have access to weapons.
Sounds nice in theory... but how do you implement such a system without creating an undue burden on those who pose no risk and are otherwise lawful?
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
To combat the irrational element you need more gun control, but to seriously improve gun control, I think you need a different culture. Guns, and violence, are part of (but not the only part) American culture, that is at the root of the problem.
Culture is a big part of it... but it's not just about firearms. Americans historically are fiercely independent... and the enthusiasm we have historically had about firearms is a symptom of that... not the cause.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
Now people can make their own drones, so how long will it be before someone sticks a bomb on one and sends it over to a target to make the news?
In general, bomb making is not a legal activity... at least for your average civilian, but you are unfortunately right, it is something that is bound to happen... though little stops someone from building bombs on their own despite the laws against it.
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Originally Posted by
Stavros
And I don't share Prospero's 'holier than thou' attitude as we have gun nuts in the UK and have had our share of mass killings, be it Dunblane, Hungerford, or smaller incidents like Raoul Moat or the man in Leicester who was given back guns the police had taken away from him at one time, which he then used to annihilate his family. Not to mention crime -the riots in London in 2011 were sparked by the shooting dead of a gangster who, the police allege, had picked up a gun on his way to commit a revenge shooting. We are not immune.
Quite true unfortunately. Guns are but a tool, and so long as some desire to do evil, they will find a way to carry it out.
Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
Leaping through hoops to justify their sick obsession... the legalese of the last few posts is nauseating.
I'm sorry you view the law so... though you'd probably view it differently if you were under attack and seeking to find mechanisms in the law to protect you.
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
The death of a teenage girl in Chicago at the weekend shot by another teenage girl in a row over a boy - speaks louder to basic humanity than all your weasel words of the rights to keep your murderous weapons.
You seem to be assuming anyone, here or elsewhere is justifying such at thing. I certainly am not.
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
Oh ...and there were more than 200 gun deaths in Chicago in the past few days. Yep gangs to quite an extent - but plenty of others caught in the crossfire. Without such a torrent of weaponry this would not have happened on this scale.
Ok... what is your fix? Other than a giant space based super magnet that is set to 'gun'?
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
Yep - I know i'm a Brit where we don't allow weaponry like this because we don't have the idiotic element of your constitution composed at a time when there was a genuine need for this to resist the threat of British power. Nowadays it is just a rich and deep evil in your culture.
The Brits have long been accustomed to being subservient & obedience... it's understandable your lack of understanding of root of and the continued importance of our cultural differences, something I have long come to notice from those on the other side of the pond.
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
The events still unfolding in Nevada offer further evidence of the streak of insanity in the US body politic.
Yes, it is quite insane that the federal government owns the majority of the land of a state and uses that ownership to use the excuse of a tortoise (which they themselves have euthanized in mass quantities) as an excuse to apparently re-purpose some of the land for the benefit of Chinese businessmen who are bankrolling the son of the Senate Majority Leader.
Most folks don't have to agree with Bundy's views on race to see that there is much fishiness afoot down there.
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
I wonder about certain people who post on HA... bobvela has 124 posts. Virtually all of them are about guns. (a handful of his earliest posts are about girls) I wonder if he is here for the real topic of the forum or if he is simply here to argue the NRA case. C'mn Bob... come clean. You are I see a self confessed Tea Prty supporter. But are you actually interested in Tgirls. If not why not go publish your offensive gun drivel elsewhere.
Interesting conspiracy theory you've concocted there, shame you didn't provide specific #'s.
No, I'm not a paid plant of the NRA, nor encouraged to post on their behalf. While I have a life membership, my postings here are of my own and for my own reasons... reasons which I need not justify to you.
The fact that you call my posts 'offensive' does say quite a bit about you though and how open minded & tolerant of a person you are.
