Andrej Pejic

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Originally Posted by Tina Francis

...I just don't have the interest. The fashion industry thrives on being cutting edge and "oddballness", and this person is the oddball de jour. The only reason he thrives today is because he looks so much like the current crop of very tall, very thin models, who have a very androgynous presentation, and are mostly from Eastern Europe ( as he is), but with the added twist of being male. He is certainly not something that any transwomen I know hold in adulation.

Lets play a game, shall we...let's look at a couple of youtube videos from the early 90's, with real women whose presentation defined femininity for that time. The great Queens and transwomen of the era sought to emulate these gorgeous females, and something has been lost since then, I think...ask a transwoman of today if she would like to look like Andrej or Christy Turlington...

Marc Jacobs for Perry Ellis spring/summer 1992 - YouTube

Marc Jacobs for Perry Ellis spring/summer 1992 - YouTube

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I feel ya on this !!!

Damn look at this bottomXO sissifying this thread /forum ... take a chill pill and smell the coffee ... TS Forum not gay forum

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Originally Posted by jamiethewild

Damn look at this bottomXO sissifying this thread /forum ... take a chill pill and smell the coffee ... TS Forum not gay forum

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That's what we've all been saying. Shit doesn't get through, though; that's the problem. BottomXO is obsessed about who's secretly gay and who isn't. That's true blue desperation to get dicked if I've ever seen it. Desperation stinks.

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Originally Posted by JenniferParisHusband

Amber, I don't know if you'd been following his posts around here. He tends to call people like Dan, gay, as an insult. Not just here, other posts as well. I'm not calling him that as an insult to him, it's to point out the fact that he is using it as a slur, when he himself is in fact begging men to plug him, half of his posts are stereotypically gay. It is his attack on others when it is clearly him who is insulted by who he is. Psychologists call it transferance. And it's seperate from someone liking Andrej Pejic. That's a really simplistic way to look at it.

The greater argument, which I've seen on this site way too many times to argue over here, is this whole notion of "a boy in a dress" and whether or not someone is gay for liking someone like you. There are men on here who would make the exact same argument about you. I believe FreddieGomez has about others on here. Amber, are you a boy in a dress? I don't think so, and I would never call you that. Yet, you do have a penis, and wear dresses. Do you see yourself as a woman or a boy in a dress? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing you aren't wearing a bra for giggles or because someone is paying you to do so. I'm thinking its because there's something inside of you that identifies yourself and female. Do you really and truly believe that all the men on here who are interested in you sexually want to go home and watch gay porn, or pick up guys on the side? There's a scale to things that isn't black and white on here. When does someone just stop being a guy who is fem and become a trannsexual? Most of the women on here can't give a consistent answer to it. If a woman in transition doesn't have her implants, is she just a gay guy in a dress?

The greater point to this, with very few exceptions that I've seen among the guys, there's a greater femine quality that has to be present. It can't just be a guy in a skirt, otherwise there'd be a thousand Braveheart posts dedicated to Mel Gibson. That Prince Flackoo guy, Ben likes him and posts a lot of photos, Ben is unique on here among the people I've seen. and that's cool. If someone went after Ben like that, I'd stand up and defend Ben too. But I think Ben is the exception. I lurked for many a year before taking a more active role on here. You don't see many other guys posting Flackoo. He doesn't have that fem quality. Andrej has it, he may not identify himself that way, but he gives it off and certainly trades on his ability to do so. It doesn't matter what Pejic thinks, it's what the person viewing him thinks. That is what I'd say, and I stand by this, 99% of the men on here who do appreciate him, like about him. It's why I say, and stand by the fact, that the overwhelming majority of men on here identify as straight. They don't want a male porn star, they want something that has that female quality.

So go ahead and laugh if you want. But that idiot calling Dan gay is like someone calling you a guy in a dress. It was meant to be mean, a slur, and it was meant to offend. And if someone on here ever did that to you, I'd take offense at that too and tee off and the jerk just as I did here. As much as the petty arguments on here seem to always come to the surface, the fact is that this is a community where we support each other because of a common thing that most of the people outside of here look down on with scorn and shame. If an idiot is going to come in here and spread hate, I don't want him here. That's what Bottom did. I stand my decision to rip him a new one.

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regardless of where a trans woman is in her transition she is a woman regardless because thats how she feels.being a trans woman is much more than looking feminine. femininity shouldnt be confused with womanliness. its a certain essence,vibe,demeanor or what ever you want to call it that some one who isnt a woman isnt going to have no matter how fem.people can call me a boy in a dress if they like but i know who i am.i know the nights ive cried myself to sleep cause i wanted nothing else than to have my body reflect the woman i knew i was meant to be.regardless of the fact that i have a penis there are men who recognize the woman inside of me and is attracted to that and to me those men are straight.there are men who are attracted to the cock on a ts woman more than anything but im not going to shoot myself in that face by going in to that lol
im not here to judge people or put anyone down.im just stating the facts. andrej is a man,he considers himself to be male.so to find him attractive is to have homosexual feelings and desires (i dont think theres anything wrong with that).i feel the same way about men who are attracted to crossdressers (not to be confused with early transitioners or ts woman who are just dressing up for the first time) and tv's. at the end of the day its a man.
these are just my feelings on the matter and shouldnt be confused with judgment.

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Originally Posted by GrimFusion

That's what we've all been saying. Shit doesn't get through, though; that's the problem. BottomXO is obsessed about who's secretly gay and who isn't. That's true blue desperation to get dicked if I've ever seen it. Desperation stinks.

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Hahaha i know .... this bitch needs relax go elsewhere he'll be a freak among many men in here / real world haven't been reading much but sure looks like it . as i read more... reminds of a mental dude that no has brain just thinks of cocks 24/7 hiding on the lockers like a sissy wanting some but never does get it hahah eww ...

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Originally Posted by jamiethewild

Damn look at this bottomXO sissifying this thread /forum ... take a chill pill and smell the coffee ... TS Forum not gay forum

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Jesus! thank you, Jamie. A down to earth, grounded lady with great common sense who tell things the way they are!
None of this really has anything to do whatsoever with Andrej Pejik. He’s just a model for whom we have some admiration because of his feminine qualities, whether by the way, we recognize them or not. And nobody is pretending, as far as I know, that he’s a woman: that’s ridiculous. You just have someone here who’s mixing everything, and insulting everyone, and who in the end, implicitly denies the fact that t-women are women by considering everyone here gay. Which is utterly fucking absurd (excuse my French once again)!!!!

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

regardless of where a trans woman is in her transition she is a woman regardless because thats how she feels.being a trans woman is much more than looking feminine. femininity shouldnt be confused with womanliness. its a certain essence,vibe,demeanor or what ever you want to call it that some one who isnt a woman isnt going to have no matter how fem.people can call me a boy in a dress if they like but i know who i am.i know the nights ive cried myself to sleep cause i wanted nothing else than to have my body reflect the woman i knew i was meant to be.regardless of the fact that i have a penis there are men who recognize the woman inside of me and is attracted to that and to me those men are straight.there are men who are attracted to the cock on a ts woman more than anything but im not going to shoot myself in that face by going in to that lol
im not here to judge people or put anyone down.im just stating the facts. andrej is a man,he considers himself to be male.so to find him attractive is to have homosexual feelings and desires (i dont think theres anything wrong with that).i feel the same way about men who are attracted to crossdressers (not to be confused with early transitioners or ts woman who are just dressing up for the first time) and tv's. at the end of the day its a man.
these are just my feelings on the matter and shouldnt be confused with judgment.

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I can respect that. Thanks for the honest words.

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Originally Posted by JenniferParisHusband

Amber, I don't know if you'd been following his posts around here. He tends to call people like Dan, gay, as an insult. Not just here, other posts as well. I'm not calling him that as an insult to him, it's to point out the fact that he is using it as a slur, when he himself is in fact begging men to plug him, half of his posts are stereotypically gay. It is his attack on others when it is clearly him who is insulted by who he is. Psychologists call it transferance. And it's seperate from someone liking Andrej Pejic. That's a really simplistic way to look at it.

The greater argument, which I've seen on this site way too many times to argue over here, is this whole notion of "a boy in a dress" and whether or not someone is gay for liking someone like you. There are men on here who would make the exact same argument about you. I believe FreddieGomez has about others on here. Amber, are you a boy in a dress? I don't think so, and I would never call you that. Yet, you do have a penis, and wear dresses. Do you see yourself as a woman or a boy in a dress? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing you aren't wearing a bra for giggles or because someone is paying you to do so. I'm thinking its because there's something inside of you that identifies yourself and female. Do you really and truly believe that all the men on here who are interested in you sexually want to go home and watch gay porn, or pick up guys on the side? There's a scale to things that isn't black and white on here. When does someone just stop being a guy who is fem and become a trannsexual? Most of the women on here can't give a consistent answer to it. If a woman in transition doesn't have her implants, is she just a gay guy in a dress?

The greater point to this, with very few exceptions that I've seen among the guys, there's a greater femine quality that has to be present. It can't just be a guy in a skirt, otherwise there'd be a thousand Braveheart posts dedicated to Mel Gibson. That Prince Flackoo guy, Ben likes him and posts a lot of photos, Ben is unique on here among the people I've seen. and that's cool. If someone went after Ben like that, I'd stand up and defend Ben too. But I think Ben is the exception. I lurked for many a year before taking a more active role on here. You don't see many other guys posting Flackoo. He doesn't have that fem quality. Andrej has it, he may not identify himself that way, but he gives it off and certainly trades on his ability to do so. It doesn't matter what Pejic thinks, it's what the person viewing him thinks. That is what I'd say, and I stand by this, 99% of the men on here who do appreciate him, like about him. It's why I say, and stand by the fact, that the overwhelming majority of men on here identify as straight. They don't want a male porn star, they want something that has that female quality.

So go ahead and laugh if you want. But that idiot calling Dan gay is like someone calling you a guy in a dress. It was meant to be mean, a slur, and it was meant to offend. And if someone on here ever did that to you, I'd take offense at that too and tee off and the jerk just as I did here. As much as the petty arguments on here seem to always come to the surface, the fact is that this is a community where we support each other because of a common thing that most of the people outside of here look down on with scorn and shame. If an idiot is going to come in here and spread hate, I don't want him here. That's what Bottom did. I stand my decision to rip him a new one.

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

regardless of where a trans woman is in her transition she is a woman regardless because thats how she feels.being a trans woman is much more than looking feminine. femininity shouldnt be confused with womanliness. its a certain essence,vibe,demeanor or what ever you want to call it that some one who isnt a woman isnt going to have no matter how fem.people can call me a boy in a dress if they like but i know who i am.i know the nights ive cried myself to sleep cause i wanted nothing else than to have my body reflect the woman i knew i was meant to be.regardless of the fact that i have a penis there are men who recognize the woman inside of me and is attracted to that and to me those men are straight.there are men who are attracted to the cock on a ts woman more than anything but im not going to shoot myself in that face by going in to that lol
im not here to judge people or put anyone down.im just stating the facts. andrej is a man,he considers himself to be male.so to find him attractive is to have homosexual feelings and desires (i dont think theres anything wrong with that).i feel the same way about men who are attracted to crossdressers (not to be confused with early transitioners or ts woman who are just dressing up for the first time) and tv's. at the end of the day its a man.
these are just my feelings on the matter and shouldnt be confused with judgment.

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Beautifully put, and absolutely accurate, in my opinion, JPH.
Amber, I’ve heard Pejik talked about himself a few times. And that’s precisely where the problem emerges. He says he wasn’t happy with his look as a male, and that he constructed himself a look on his own. He insist that the look he has is not a look imposed on him by the fashion industry, but his creation, the look he wanted to have in his daily life. It seems he was discovered with this look, in a McDonald’s or what have you, by an agent of some kind. He doesn’t define himself as male. He constantly repeats that he doesn’t believe in genres anymore, he doesn’t believe that there is a line to be drawn between men and women. I don’t personally agree with that. But you have to respect the concept, and you have to admit he doesn’t exactly fit the straight definition of a “man”. Now the femininity he is trying to exploit on himself you might like or dislike, but it is there, it’s obvious and even striking to say the least. That we would find a thread on him on this forum shouldn’t be surprising then, isn’t it? And some other models are adopting the same kind of attitude. JPH’s argument is very valid: why would you draw a line? Why would you think you have the key to what gay is or isn’t? Pejik doesn’t seem to consider himself a woman, but he doesn’t consider himself a man either…
JPH’s point is ultimately that men on this forum recognize, against a large majority of people in our society (who are doing exactly that, judging), t-women to be women, and that most express a real admiration not only for t-women’s beauty, but also for your courage and dedication. We all consider t-women to be women to the fullest extent, and we all (or almost all) have desire for femininity, not virility (brrrr!). By his slurs, bottomguy is implying the opposite, he’s implying that you aren’t women and that we are all gay; and therefore, that there is no reason for us not to have desire for him, who’s so obviously a gay man! And moreover, he insults us because we don’t! It doesn’t have anything to do with Pejik precisely. It’s because we are not gay that he insults us! This is why your reaction seemed a little strange to me too. Your equation “interest for Pejik”=”gay desire”, just doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t define this bottomguy’s attitude in the least bit either, on the contrary… Understand that I’m saying all this to you only with the greatest respect. I understand your feelings as a woman and I respect them; but you have to understand where we’re coming from in all of this. Please!

Physical attractiveness is objective, external.
Gender identity is subjective, internal.
People being attracted to Andrej for his feminine beauty should be obvious. He dos'nt give off a lot of obvious masculinity. And as a couture model he earns a living projecting the current high fashion ideal of beauty. That is his trade and its not surprising for men to be attracted to that.

That is objective attraction. If you hung out with Andrej he may completely turn the men off if he has no "essence" of femininity" in person. There are otherwise attractive gentic women who are so unfeminine they are also a turn off.

What Andrej's gender identity is is subjective, internal. And frankly take with a grain of salt anything from Andrej because I have heard him say basically everything about his gender identity and it is different nearly every time. But remember creating that confusion is Andrej's meal ticket.

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

Beautifully put, and absolutely accurate, in my opinion, JPH.
Amber, I’ve heard Pejik talked about himself a few times. And that’s precisely where the problem emerges. He says he wasn’t happy with his look as a male, and that he constructed himself a look on his own. He insist that the look he has is not a look imposed on him by the fashion industry, but his creation, the look he wanted to have in his daily life. It seems he was discovered with this look, in a McDonald’s or what have you, by an agent of some kind. He doesn’t define himself as male. He constantly repeats that he doesn’t believe in genres anymore, he doesn’t believe that there is a line to be drawn between men and women. I don’t personally agree with that. But you have to respect the concept, and you have to admit he doesn’t exactly fit the straight definition of a “man”. Now the femininity he is trying to exploit on himself you might like or dislike, but it is there, it’s obvious and even striking to say the least. That we would find a thread on him on this forum shouldn’t be surprising then, isn’t it? And some other models are adopting the same kind of attitude. JPH’s argument is very valid: why would you draw a line? Why would you think you have the key to what gay is or isn’t? Pejik doesn’t seem to consider himself a woman, but he doesn’t consider himself a man either…
JPH’s point is ultimately that men on this forum recognize, against a large majority of people in our society (who are doing exactly that, judging), t-women to be women, and that most express a real admiration not only for t-women’s beauty, but also for your courage and dedication. We all consider t-women to be women to the fullest extent, and we all (or almost all) have desire for femininity, not virility (brrrr!). By his slurs, bottomguy is implying the opposite, he’s implying that you aren’t women and that we are all gay; and therefore, that there is no reason for us not to have desire for him, who’s so obviously a gay man! And moreover, he insults us because we don’t! It doesn’t have anything to do with Pejik precisely. It’s because we are not gay that he insults us! This is why your reaction seemed a little strange to me too. Your equation “interest for Pejik”=”gay desire”, just doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t define this bottomguy’s attitude in the least bit either, on the contrary… Understand that I’m saying all this to you only with the greatest respect. I understand your feelings as a woman and I respect them; but you have to understand where we’re coming from in all of this. Please!

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you do notice that your using male pronouns while talking about him right lol.like the poster underneath you said (merkurie i think it is) i have seen him talk about himself and his gender in variety of conflicting and confusing ways but feeling like a woman was something he's never expressed.
i think alot of what society thinks about trans woman is what they are exposed to in the media.they see people like Andrej, rupauls drag race and jerry springer and think thats what being trans is all about.on some part i think the porn industry is also responsible for what people think about trans woman as well. we're not exactly represented as woman who want nothing other than to live their lives as woman but as inbetweeners, confused and comical.i personally dont have anything against Andrej (i think he's gorgeous) or the men attracted to him.im just not going to pretend that being attracted to him is the same as being attracted to me or that its hetrosexual to be into him.
im not calling anyone names or trying to put anyone down.i respect how you and others may feel about it.i feel how i fell and im not going to change my mind.i think i expressed my opinion in an intelligent and respectful manner.i really dont have much else to say on the matter.

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

Jesus! thank you, Jamie. A down to earth, grounded lady with great common sense who tell things the way they are!
None of this really has anything to do whatsoever with Andrej Pejik. He’s just a model for whom we have some admiration because of his feminine qualities, whether by the way, we recognize them or not. And nobody is pretending, as far as I know, that he’s a woman: that’s ridiculous. You just have someone here who’s mixing everything, and insulting everyone, and who in the end, implicitly denies the fact that t-women are women by considering everyone here gay. Which is utterly fucking absurd (excuse my French once again)!!!!

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Dan your a very nice and chill guy here in this forum and i have respect for you, you seem to be a very understanding towards the TS community and support us when we have conflicts with people here that don't see us as woman and thank you for that ... I see why some men would would attracted to Andre he does resemble feminity and i respect the fact that you compliment him but NO transwoman looks up to him that am aware of.... Thats ridiculous he (bottomXO) thinks everyone here is gay i read all the insults he got here that just says how much this forum is pretty straight lol i make sure to hunt him down till he leaves;) , Thank you for sweet commits dan..

But Amber, you completely ignore the second part of my post, that you nonetheless quoted completely. I can’t believe that you don’t get my point, here! Pejik is not the point! And I’m starting to suspect that something is really not right in your interventions… I mean, what is this? are you just trying to prove you’re right? Let me just quote myself again:

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

JPH’s point is ultimately that men on this forum recognize, against a large majority of people in our society (who are doing exactly that, judging), t-women to be women, and that most express a real admiration not only for t-women’s beauty, but also for your courage and dedication. We all consider t-women to be women to the fullest extent, and we all (or almost all) have desire for femininity, not virility (brrrr!). By his slurs, bottomguy is implying the opposite, he’s implying that you aren’t women and that we are all gay; and therefore, that there is no reason for us not to have desire for him, who’s so obviously a gay man! And moreover, he insults us because we don’t! It doesn’t have anything to do with Pejik precisely. It’s because we are not gay that he insults us! This is why your reaction seemed a little strange to me too. Your equation “interest for Pejik”=”gay desire”, just doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t define this bottomguy’s attitude in the least bit either, on the contrary… Understand that I’m saying all this to you only with the greatest respect. I understand your feelings as a woman and I respect them; but you have to understand where we’re coming from in all of this. Please!

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Now let me be clear on one thing, Amber, whatever you think and feel like, if I am gay, that definitely means that you are a man in a dress. There is no way around this. I’m a top guy, I don’t take it up the ass, and I’ve always been clear on this. If I am gay to you, you are saying implicitly about yourself (you understand the meaning of the word?), no matter how much you twist your logic, that you are a man. Either I’m gay and you’re a man, or either you’re a woman, but I’m not gay. No way around this, no matter what you think about Pejik or anybody.
And I would like to add one more thing: by giving into this bottomguy’s logic, you gave him credibility, which is not very sensible to say the least. But hey! fine: at this point, I personally don’t care anymore…

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Originally Posted by jamiethewild

Dan your a very nice and chill guy here in this forum and i have respect for you, you seem to be a very understanding towards the TS community and support us when we have conflicts with people here that don't see us as woman and thank you for that ... I see why some men would would attracted to Andre he does resemble feminity and i respect the fact that you compliment him but NO transwoman looks up to him that am aware of.... Thats ridiculous he (bottomXO) thinks everyone here is gay i read all the insults he got here that just says how much this forum is pretty straight lol i make sure to hunt him down till he leaves;) , Thank you for sweet commits dan..

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Exactly, Jamie. You seem to understand completely what this is about! Pejik is unimportant; it’s an excuse. So no: let me thank you once again. You impress me with your good sense. You’re a down to earth lady and obviously, no one can fool you… ;)

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

you do notice that your using male pronouns while talking about him right lol.like the poster underneath you said (merkurie i think it is) i have seen him talk about himself and his gender in variety of conflicting and confusing ways but feeling like a woman was something he's never expressed.
i think alot of what society thinks about trans woman is what they are exposed to in the media.they see people like Andrej, rupauls drag race and jerry springer and think thats what being trans is all about.on some part i think the porn industry is also responsible for what people think about trans woman as well. we're not exactly represented as woman who want nothing other than to live their lives as woman but as inbetweeners, confused and comical.i personally dont have anything against Andrej (i think he's gorgeous) or the men attracted to him.im just not going to pretend that being attracted to him is the same as being attracted to me or that its hetrosexual to be into him.
im not calling anyone names or trying to put anyone down.i respect how you and others may feel about it.i feel how i fell and im not going to change my mind.i think i expressed my opinion in an intelligent and respectful manner.i really dont have much else to say on the matter.

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:iagree: media likes to give misrepresentation what Transgender woman is about that ... thats where people in life base they logic and people start making assumptions of what transwomen is about , however any guys in here completing Andre might have me ?? a men's sexuality or sexual orientation
and can be tricky to decide on other hand androgynous does fall into the transgender umbrella since transgender can be ts /cd/tv/dragqueen/ androgynous etc !

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

But Amber, you completely ignore the second part of my post, that you nonetheless quoted completely. I can’t believe that you don’t get my point, here! Pejik is not the point! And I’m starting to suspect that something is really not right in your interventions… I mean, what is this? are you just trying to prove you’re right? Let me just quote myself again:

Now let me be clear on one thing, Amber, whatever you think and feel like, if I am gay, that definitely means that you are a man in a dress. There is no way around this. I’m a top guy, I don’t take it up the ass, and I’ve always been clear on this. If I am gay to you, you are saying implicitly about yourself (you understand the meaning of the word?), no matter how much you twist your logic, that you are a man. Either I’m gay and you’re a man, or either you’re a woman, but I’m not gay. No way around this, no matter what you think about Pejik or anybody.
And I would like to add one more thing: by giving into this bottomguy’s logic, you gave him credibility, which is not very sensible to say the least. But hey! fine: at this point, I personally don’t care anymore…

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i dont recall calling you gay anywhere.i think your personalizing and putting words in my mouth.i can give two flying fucking trannies what you are or arent.it has no bearing on my life.stop trying to peg me as intolerant or whatever.i had an opinion and i expressed it with out name calling or pointing of fingers.leave it alone.i respect everyones opinion even if i dont agree with it.try doing the same
you may not agree with my logic but its not unclear or confusing.if the person considers themselves a woman and lives their life as a woman than they are a woman.being attracted to them is not gay.however if someone considers themselves a man no matter how pretty they are still living life as a man.
if you want to think im a man in a dress that up to you.i know one thing when my dress comes off i still look like a woman so your opinion is what ever to me lol.ive explained it time and time again the difference between a trans woman and other gender variant people.i cant keep going over this.

I think somebody may be getting a little too over-defensive. :whistle:

JPH is my crush guy lol

Pejic pics or shut the fuck up, please. Nobody cares about angsty dickwaving unless the dickwaver is super hot.

[QUOTE=Tika;1203466]Pejic pics or shut the fuck up, please. Nobody cares about angsty dickwaving unless the dickwaver is super hot.[/QUOTE"




Actually i hope your aware the moment Pehic's thread started you should should know that discussions like this would rise throughout the thread .

Not my type, not womanly and just to skinny for my taste

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Originally Posted by GrimFusion

I think somebody may be getting a little too over-defensive. :whistle:

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Yes...what an emotional thread...who'dve thunk it..lol

Emotional, you’re right about that one, Fred -and Jamie. Personally, I find I got carried away a little and might have been a bit abrupt in the way I expressed myself towards lovely Amber, whom I respect and like a lot. I already told you that, Amber, and I want to repeat it here, I’m sorry about that.
It’s never a good thing to have an “element of discord” around, as far as I’m concerned, but I find it’s the situation here…

Last Night on the town with my dear friend Andrej Pejic

See more Pix and videos @ HttP://www.JenniferParis.net

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Originally Posted by TsJennifer

Last Night on the town with my dear friend Andrej Pejic

See more Pix and videos @ HttP://www.JenniferParis.net

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This is funny, I'm jealous of Andrej being out with the lovely Jennifer, and Ben will be jealous of Jennifer being out with Andrej.

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Originally Posted by JenniferParisHusband

This is funny, I'm jealous of Andrej being out with the lovely Jennifer, and Ben will be jealous of Jennifer being out with Andrej.

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Ha ha ha! :) Any idea if Jen knows Angrej's penis size -- ha ha! :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by Ben

Ha ha ha! :) Any idea if Jen knows Angrej's penis size -- ha ha! :) :) :)

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I dont think jennifer would know , unless she dressed him up as MEN for the time being maybe , my guess is that twinks have big cocks .

He is hot in this picture. I wonder what he would look like as a woman.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/att...1&d=1348170922

WoW, I can only imagine what six months of 'mones would do for him.

He would be hotter as a woman.

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Originally Posted by BarbieWoodsFan

He would be hotter as a woman.

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Well, he's completely androgynous. That's his full appeal....

Coupla more hot ones...

I know Andrej may ID as "completely androgynous" but he sure looks like a woman.
He should go on 'mones before he ends up looking like Vladimir Putin.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld...z4xco1_500.jpg

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

i dont recall calling you gay anywhere.i think your personalizing and putting words in my mouth.i can give two flying fucking trannies what you are or arent.it has no bearing on my life.stop trying to peg me as intolerant or whatever.i had an opinion and i expressed it with out name calling or pointing of fingers.leave it alone.i respect everyones opinion even if i dont agree with it.try doing the same
you may not agree with my logic but its not unclear or confusing.if the person considers themselves a woman and lives their life as a woman than they are a woman.being attracted to them is not gay.however if someone considers themselves a man no matter how pretty they are still living life as a man.
if you want to think im a man in a dress that up to you.i know one thing when my dress comes off i still look like a woman so your opinion is what ever to me lol.ive explained it time and time again the difference between a trans woman and other gender variant people.i cant keep going over this.

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How someone "feels" about themselves as no bearing at all on the sexuality of the person who finds them attractive. Pejic, when in make-up, (arguably) looks more like the archetypal beautiful female than anyone on this board. But he is male, whether in his mind he is a girl or not; whether he is attracted to other men or not; whether he wears female clothing on weekends or not. Pejic could wipe off his make-up, don a pair of blue jeans and flannel shirt, and go skirt chasing at the local pub during his time off, and that would have no bearing whatsoever on the sexuality of those who want make out with him when he's in full drag.

Strictly speaking, if an otherwise straight male who has no idea who Pejic is were checking him out at a gas pump and getting turned on, it can be said that the man is having homosexual desires because the object of his desire is another man. This is a trivial point, because anyone can be attracted to a member of his or her own sex under some set of circumstances, even if these circumstances are extremely rare. To deny that is ridiculous. The question isn't whether the impulse is homosexual, but whether it is normal among heterosexual men to find a man like Pejic sexually attractive based on the limited information available to them.

I would argue that it is no less "gay" to be attracted to female transsexual than it is to be attracted to Pejic. A transsexual female is, objectively, biologically, male as well. She has a Y chromosome. She cannot give birth, and does not possess the organs necessary for another human to grow within her. From a biological standpoint, she is male and to be attracted to her is homosexual.

Since humans have long progressed beyond having sex for the purposes of reproduction, it hardly matter who one fucks, and biological definitions having given way to more malleable social definitions. And these social definitions of "male" and "female;" "gay" and "straight" can be rationalized to no end and to me are frivolous and not worth arguing over. I will say when some here try to draw some bright-line distinction between attraction to Pejic and attraction to the Grooby girl of the week--this is distinction that has very little objective evidence supporting it, and would be laughable to most outside this community and to many within it.

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I would argue that it is no less "gay" to be attracted to female transsexual than it is to be attracted to Pejic. A transsexual female is, objectively, biologically, male as well. She has a Y chromosome. She cannot give birth, and does not possess the organs necessary for another human to grow within her. From a biological standpoint, she is male and to be attracted to her is homosexual.

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That does not make any sense.The attraction of a "straight" male to a female is not homosexual if that male perceives and is attracted to the female that he sees. Regardless of "what she is biologically". He may opt out of the sex act to preserve his "straightness", but the initial attraction to a subjective female cannot be "gay" regardless of biology because this "straight male" is perceiving a person of a different gender than himself.

For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/09/28/0...tmz-credit.jpg
Of course not.

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Originally Posted by Merkurie

That does not make any sense.The attraction of a "straight" male to a female is not homosexual if that male perceives and is attracted to the female that he sees. Regardless of "what she is biologically". He may opt out of the sex act to preserve his "straightness", but the initial attraction to a subjective female cannot be "gay" regardless of biology because this "straight male" is perceiving a person of a different gender than himself.

For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/09/28/0...tmz-credit.jpg
Of course not.

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It does make sense. You just need to think more about it. If a male is attracted to another male, that is by definition homosexual. I shouldn't have used the word "gay." I would edit that if I could. It doesn't matter if that other male is a ringer of Olivia Wilde. It is a man. And I said this is a trivial point because almost any man would react the same way. The point is, anyone can be attracted to a member of the same sex under some set of circumstances.

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For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?

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I don't know what a vag is, but I would say the attraction is heterosexual. Keep in mind, the biological purpose of these compulsions is to deliver the sperm to the egg. How it gets there is not important. Human compulsions can be manipulated just like compulsions in animals. But it is the compulsions that are being manipulated, not the underlying reality.

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Originally Posted by Michelle.

WoW, I can only imagine what six months of 'mones would do for him.

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I think he is already taking hormones. I mean, look at his tits...
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3cefd2fa7...r94xo1_400.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3202bc93f...r94xo2_400.gif

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Originally Posted by alexandros8814

I think he is already taking hormones. I mean, look at his tits...
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3cefd2fa7...r94xo1_400.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3202bc93f...r94xo2_400.gif

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It would certainly explicate his [her?] feminine/soft physical features

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Originally Posted by Merkurie

I know Andrej may ID as "completely androgynous" but he sure looks like a woman.
He should go on 'mones before he ends up looking like Vladimir Putin.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld...z4xco1_500.jpg

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Can't see him looking like Putin anytime soon....

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t does make sense. You just need to think more about it. If a male is attracted to another male, that is by definition homosexual. I shouldn't have used the word "gay." I would edit that if I could. It doesn't matter if that other male is a ringer of Olivia Wilde. It is a man. And I said this is a trivial point because almost any man would react the same way. The point is, anyone can be attracted to a member of the same sex under some set of circumstances.

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This person is not"male" in a biological sense.
http://www.thegavoice.com/images/sto...dy-9-28-12.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1390/...25a35993d7.jpg


So by your argument, a male attracted to Buck Angel is having a heterosexual attraction?
That is why your argument does not make sense. No matter how long you think about it.

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Originally Posted by Merkurie

This person is not"male" in a biological sense.
http://www.thegavoice.com/images/sto...dy-9-28-12.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1390/...25a35993d7.jpg


So by your argument, a male attracted to Buck Angel is having a heterosexual attraction?
That is why your argument does not make sense. No matter how long you think about it.

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Maybe you ought to sleep on it then, because you still aren't getting it. The human species, for the most part, is divided into male and female. Even within that dichotomy there is some grey area, but generally reproduction occurs when the male fertilizes the female through sexual intercourse. Can we agree on that much?

It does not matter what each sex looks like externally. Males and females were not always recognizable as they are now, nor will they be recognizable as they are now in the future if the human race does not go extinct before radical change occurs.

Humans feel sexual attraction for other humans who, through sensory cues, they deem suitable to fertilize or to be fertilized by. But nature does not function perfectly, and because sex is pleasurable, humans will devote energy to finding sexual partners they feel attraction toward, but who they logically find unsuitable for procreation with. In other words, they know that their instincts are failing them (impelling them to devote energy to copulating with others with whom they do not intend to create offspring) but they proceed anyway because the sex is pleasurable.

If an otherwise straight man scopes out Pejic standing by the bar looking hot in lipstick and miniskirt, and he finds himself wanting to stick his wang in a vagina that isn't there, then yes, the attraction is objectively homosexual. He is a male and he is sexually attracted to another male. But, wait, doesn't he reasonably believe it's a female that he's oogling? Well, perhaps "reasonably" based on how a similarly situated male may feel looking at Pejic, but that does not change the reality of the situation. To say he was fooled or confused by Pejic's appearance shows only that his senses are not refined enough to distinguish between male and female when certain variables are manipulated--but this is just another way of saying that he is capable of homosexual attraction when certain circumstances are present (i.e., when the male is thin, has high cheek bones, has long hair, is dressed in traditionally female attire, ect.) As I stated, this is a trivial point. Who cares whether a heterosexual man may be fleetingly attracted to another man in an obscure case like Pejic's. I made it to illustrate the frivolity of trying to distinguish between a man being sexuality attracted to a CD such as Pejic and being sexually attracted to a TS such as say, Kimber--as neither are biologically female; but both may be appealing to an ordinarily straight man who does not also want to hook up with Ricky Martin.

As to your hypothetical regarding Buck Angel, that is more difficult case. A heterosexual man who found himself attracted to Buck Angel, but not anatomical men, could almost be said to have more refined sexual urges than a typical heterosexual man, because he is able to filter out all that ostensible masculinity to reach the underlying pussy. But Buck's appearance also screams of barrenness which pretty much negates the pussy. From the point of view of nature, a better dichotomy than gay and straight is probably fertile and infertile, because if there is no possibility of reproduction, it hardly matters where you dip your stick into a barren female, a male anus, or a hole in the wall. If you are doing it for pleasure it hardly matters what you fuck.