OMG, you're a fucking rat too? Let the powers that be handle it, rat. No one needs a goon in a Halloween mask narcing them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsbrenda
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OMG, you're a fucking rat too? Let the powers that be handle it, rat. No one needs a goon in a Halloween mask narcing them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsbrenda
Ok, in advance im from germany, so my english isnt that good...
Never planned to write here, just wanted to find some nice pictures for free...
But somehow I felt forced to say something about this whole copyright issue
1. copyright is not a law of nature. First copyright laws were invented in europe around 1500.
2. Imho this discussion is about the wrong subject. It should be about what you want the internet to be - is it a tool of communication free to everybody or is it another way of commercial distribution of stuff.
As an IT professional I know that you can't have both - either you allow anonymous communication, then you will have ppl who use it to distribute content not in the way it was meant by the producers.
Or you restrict the communication in such a way that this is not happening - and there are possibilities for that - but then we will life in an Orwell-like time, where everything anybody ever 'says' on the net is trackable.
My conclusion: copyright laws as they are now are too old-fashioned. I'm not saying that ppl should not be payed for the content they produce, but I dont think that the way it is done atm is just not working. Plus: Imho it's hypocrytical from the technical point of view that some ppl want to use the net to transfer the data they want - aka offering content for money - but want to restrict the use for others.
And: by all these prosecutions goin on in the net, and believe me, we have these in germany too, they only get those who are too dump to obscure their origin. If I want to download something illegal, you will never find out where I do this from.
All said above is meant only for private use - or abuse, as some would say.
Because I think it is contrary to the original intention of the Constitution. It specifies for limited times to the author of the work. The current law makes a mockery of the term limited. Nothing that goes into copyright today will expire in our lifetime. The original copyright law in the US was for 14 years, with an option to renew for an additional 14. Granted, it could be longer than 28 years and still be limited, but extending it to a term that intentionally exceeds the actual author's life is problematic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trans-Promo
The intent of the clause was to promote creative expression and knowledge, but ensuring that someone's great-grand kids receive royalties is, imo, not what they had in mind. If 70 years after death isn't perpetual, then how about 200, or 500, or 1000? Where do you draw the line?
PS- There is a reason that the law that made it life plus 70 is nick named the "Mickey Mouse Forever Act."
what's going to be very interesting to see is ih they are going to only go after current pirates, or past ones as well.
In addition, I'm willing to bet that a large number of the people who are pirating will be underage. I wonder how that will be handled.
At the end of the day piracy is always going to be around and threatening people isn't the way also legal wise I don't think in a lot of other countries they have a leg to stand on.
Why not if it's such a big issue just drm all there stuff I know it's annoying and people don't like drm but it does ad security to files or as other have said go around sites and get them to remove the content (wont work for torrents but you can't control everything)
Then obviously we won't be suing in those countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by morty
DRM is problematic. It's costly and time consuming to add to the videos. Further costs are ensued by the amount of customer service time we'd have to add for people having software/playability issues, this would in turn drive away members, causing lost revenue. The main issue though, is that it still can be hacked (stripped of the DRM) and shown.
I would however be in favour of this if it was an industry wide initiative. If the adult internet industry as a whole had embraced DRM when it came out, we may be at a different place now and I'd certainly open up to looking at it again.
Thanks
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6041/ih5xfs.gif
Yeah, all DRM does is cause an inconvenience for the people who don't pirate. I know in regards to videogames, slapping drm on it has caused piracy to increase greatly, like with Ubisoft and EA's game "Spore"
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Fair points I think a lot of other American studios don't do the drm route because they know like i stated you cant get rid of piracy they accept it but try to reduce it by making sites pull there content if people post it up even hollywood has problems going around suing people it's very hard and expensive process.
It is a tough one
Even though you know it doesn't work?Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
If it was industry wide, then more money would be put into it, tweaking it and making sure it did work and then work better. If it was the norm, than the end-user wouldn't have the same complaints about the software than if a couple of companies were doing it, it would be seen as standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Yah...That still wouldn't work. Tweak it all they like, end result is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
DRM, Activation, shit like that...A slap in the face to honest end users, a minor inconvenience to dishonest ones. :shrug
Probably. That's the problem, it just doesn't work very well. It needs to be seemless to the end-user.
Indeed,Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
That seemless to the end user would appear to be the difficult bit.
Though, i can't hep feeling everyone is running in the wrong direction.
Would have helped if I'd spelled it correctly, seamless.
... and it never EVER will. The industry has put millions and millions of $ into BlueRay and HDTV technology and it took like 2 weeks before the content protection was broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
There is no such thing like a perfect lock. And never will be. If a lock can be openend, then it can be opened - with or without a key. Period.
So you want a better technology to boss around the end-user aka the money-cow, not to do something against professional copyright-violators? Thank u for that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Ho-hum ... Mr.Twopost !?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred30
No I want the end-user to get a seemless experience of being able to watch, download and enjoy the content without annoying pop-ups/passwords or software needed. To get what they paid for without inconvenience. What I don't want is for someone to download it, copy it wilfully and post it whatever. So if there was a solution, I'd take it.
The thing is that imho the end-user is not the problem. Professional pirates are - if at all. And for them, as other posters before pointed out before, DRM is a minor inconvinience.
If the whole copyright is something useful at all, or if it only helps the copyright holders is something that is yet to be proven.
Mr. Threepost ;)
(tbh I came across this board while looking for amateur pics - never planned to take part in this discussion, but this discussion struck a nerve, so I registered. Does that make my opinion worth less?)
Anytime you allow the end-user the ability to download unprotected files your going to have what you have today. The choice is either prosecute the end-user which is a daunting task, or find a new way that protects your work.
If you look at the shear volume of copyrighted material on the tube sites, and this material gets re-posted daily there. The flood gate is open, I don't envy you in your task. But my own opinion, as feeble as it is, would be to protect my work at the source, my site.
A question to Seanchai :
I can understand your actions against piracy , if I were you I'll probably do the same.
BUT
if I want to join your site , and pay for your copyrighted site , like I should and want . I CANNOT do it.
CCBill and other companies block many countries in advance , treating me and others like potential criminals when in fact many ARE honest poeple who want to pay for what they buy.
1. YOU lose money because of less customers who cannot buy membership to your sites
2. what other option do these blocked members have?
I believe this piracy will not be there , and if it will , in much smaller size than it is today, if poeple will have the possibility to buy it legaly.
blame those who prevent many HONEST potentional customers from buying your material LEGALY.
do you do anything about it?
Thanks for the post Yosi - and you do pose a good question. Billing companies do block certain countries because many stolen cards are used by them and a certain amount of genuine revenue is lost because of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by yosi
The most straight forward answer to your question, is YES. Grooby does do something about this by offering other payment options.
We have our own payments at:
http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html from which we offer discounts and the ability to pay via mail (international money order or cash) or we can bill directly to your credit card via our own merchant account.
I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing from you - check out the options at http://www.grooby.com/tickets/ to get the sites HEAVILY discounted. If I can help you with anything directly, get me at admin@grooby.com
Regards
How is the ACS debacle playing out on the other side of the pond? With the 4chan/Anonymous crowd distributing their internal files and copyright offender's personal information, what if any responsibility will the copyholder-clients of this company have for this privacy breach?
Here is a dumb solution.....put your content in HD so that 1 video is 1 gig.
Provide a higher product to your customers which makes transferring these files harder to do.
Seanchai, There's absolutely nothing you can do. This lawsuit really won't change anything. It might shut down a piracy ring or two, but four more will just pop up in their place. Suing individuals might set an example for six months, but people will eventually settle back into their porn pirating ways.
Should they be charged? Sure. They're breaking the law. Good luck, with the bad PR. I think it's a fat waste of time and money, though.
At the end of the day, if something can be viewed or listened to, it can be copied. Sad, but true.
How were the defendants in the lawsuit chosen??
It doesn't make it any harder, if it was too large for a customer to download we'd lose customers - with current cable speeds most people can download fast. The cable companies are the one group who have made money from illegal downloads with no responsibility, if you look at the amount they've grown in the past few years the correlation to piracy, is apparent.Quote:
Originally Posted by SXFX
I don't think there is any expectation of shutting own a piracy "ring" (is there such a thing?) but by hitting individuals we hope to set an example and also bring in some revenue as compensation for our losses.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimFusion
Some files were identified, they used their software to find out who downloaded it.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
So all that crap at the beginning of the thread when you cried about Russian and Eastern European crime 'rings' (is there such a thing?) was just bullshit. You know perfectly well that you won't achieve a damn thing in the long term, and you have failed to make the case that a download = a lost sale. So now, you say that you're doing this pour encourages les outres, and ... wait for it ... to make money. The former clearly isn't going to work. I'm sure you know that perfectly well. You're only doing this to make money. That was put to you several times earlier on, and you tried to weasel out of acknowledging that. Oh well, at least we all know now.
i'm finding it hard to have sympathy for people in the porn industry. ok what's happening is legally wrong but it's not as if the porn world is some sort of moral highground. it's the same as people downloading music for free... yes industy people are missing out on income but the way they brainwash, exploit and manipulate the public i couldn't really give a fuck. plus i get free tunes :)
Where do you get this "crime ring" idea from? Let's get my quote right;Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
"Nobody is doing this for fun - it's an organised business, much of it originating in Russia, China and Eastern Europe."
The people either running sites showing links to stolen content, or posting the stolen content themselves for download ARE running it as a business, and most of them come from countries that it's hard to take criminal action against. It's an organised full time business for them, as they get an upsell percentage on people buying download accounts. It's no bullshit.
You might find this hard to believe but I'm in this to turn a profit as without that profit, I can't pay anyone or continue to produce. If someone has MADE THE CHOICE TO ACT ILLEGALLY AND STEAL FROM US - then yes, we'll take action against them in an attempt to raises revenue from otherwise losses. This should also discourage others doing it.
You should possibly read more - on my post on 9th Sept I clearly stated;
"4. Yes, this is a revenue generating venture as well as to warn people not to download our content. You have a choice, you can either do it - or not do it. There is no in-between. If you are stealing our content, then you have the potential to be sued. I've no interest in playing semantics with you."
I don't see anywhere where I "weasled out of it" - I'm not going to answer every single post, I made my statements and you can take from that what you will. We've always went after piracy where we can and if we can recoup revenue by doing that we will.
What's moral high ground got to do with it? My high ground is to ensure that all the people that work for the company (incl. myself) get paid well, get excellent benefits and enjoy working for the company. Without this company there would be a lot less money going into many pockets in all corners of the industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoJecours
Exploitation? Maybe you should check your clothes/shoe labels? Which supermarkets to you shop at and which coffee chain are you drinking from?
You are an idiot.
your a moron plain and simple,its people like you who give porn a bad rep,your like the dude who takes a candybar out of a store without paying and saying cool ill have to try that again.porn is no different than any other bussiness were all in it to make money from the owners to the performers cameraman etc the leak needs to stop period.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoJecours
you compare taking a candy bar from a store to stealing copyrighted material from a morally bankrupt industry... and i'm the moron? and by the way i don't watch pirate porn material anyway. and i'm not saying you're not right to try and recoup that money... but you should understand why 90% of people on the outside don't give a shit when you'll take advantage of anyone from any angle to get their money.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/ima...ons/report.gifQuote:
I don't think there is any expectation of shutting own a piracy "ring" (is there such a thing?) but by hitting individuals we hope to set an example and also bring in some revenue as compensation for our losses. - Seanchai
As I said, all your original bleating about Eastern European crime rings pirating porn movies is just a front to make yourself appear as if you're taking a stance based on morals/laws, when in reality, as you've said, you know perfectly well that the action you are actually choosing to take will have ZERO effect on these crime rings which YOU started crying about at the beginning of the thread. Instead you have elected to target an entirely different group: individual people, and you're doing that pour encourager les autres, which you've just admitted. And to make money. Which you've just admitted. Since the former won't work, you're left with the latter.
(Oh and compensation for your 'losses'? Don't make me laugh. It's been pointed out to you several times on this thread that some guy in Boise, Idaho watching or listening to a pirated piece of film/music on their PC does not inevitably equate to a loss for the artist/producer. You have yet to deal with that counterargument properly. And if one of the premises in your argument is obviously false, then your whole argument sucketh.)
It's EXACTLY the same. That stolen candy bar lowers my revenue, I then have to adjust my business possibly losing staff, I don't buy as much candy from the manufacturer (who may or maybe not, is exploiting his cacao workforce), who needs less raw product and less printing of his wrapper. As the manufacturers revenue is also lost, he can't spend as much on advertising and his transportation needs are minus one candy bar, so that needs adjusting also. It's EXACTLY the same. You are hurting multiple people on multiple levels - it is theft.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoJecours
Why are we morally bankrupt? Explain? Explain the morals to me, so I can understand this. Why do you think we take advantage of "anyone from any angle to get their money" - we provide a good and honest service, with excellent levels of customer service?
Again where are you getting this "crime rings" from? We are going after copyright thefts which is legally wrong (morally if you are that way inclined also), what don't you get about that? If we stop some people from downloading from them then we hit them where it hurts - we've got ongoing campaigns in different areas of piracy but you are correct, to go after those people in those countries is financially unviable for us to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
Who has pointed out that the piracy doesn't equate loss? Certainly nobody of any significance and most likely, just people who steal themselves.
Frankly, I don't care what you think - I've made my perfectly clear statements. Your agreement or disagreement with them, speaks volumes yet ultimately, is irrelevant.
Why are you crying about this when your chosen course of action is against individuals, and when your stated goal is to get money from those individuals?Quote:
The people either running sites showing links to stolen content, or posting the stolen content themselves for download ARE running it as a business, and most of them come from countries that it's hard to take criminal action against. It's an organised full time business for them, as they get an upsell percentage on people buying download accounts. It's no bullshit. Seanchai
At least be consistent in your thinking. If you want to actually do something about Eastern European crime rings, who are making money from your product, then go right ahead and do so.
If you want to prosecute individuals who are not making any money from your product whatsoever, in the name of loss of revenue and pour encourager les autres, then do try to provide an argument which actually supports this. So far, you have failed to do so.
How have I failed to do so? Here it is AGAIN simply. If you've stolen from us, you've committed a crime and if we find you we will take legal action against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
That's all it is.
Why are you still talking about crime rings? This has NEVER been suggested? You refuse to acknowledge I never said such a thing yet continue to bring it up, in some way to derail the points. If we can find a viable way to go after any piracy, then we will.
You're**** :wiggle:Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaparadise