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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eccentricBlue
Just imagine of common sense was more common.... lol. But I agree, the justice system is in no way perfect, however I just don't want to buy into the hysteria on either side. Some people disagree with me and go straight into attack mode, however cooler heads must prevail because 2 wrongs never make a right. Race should not be a factor so I refuse to let that sway my opinion.
But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
I believe he was giving a description of the suspect to 911. That's not racial profiling. It is obvious after the initial reports that national media outlets pounced on this story because they believed Zimmerman was white. So once again 2 wrongs don't make a right.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?
Arguing with online morons is pointless,they are impervious to reason or fact.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eccentricBlue
I believe he was giving a description of the suspect to 911. That's not racial profiling. It is obvious after the initial reports that national media outlets pounced on this story because they believed Zimmerman was white. So once again 2 wrongs don't make a right.
When the cops told him to leave him alone he still pursued it...
Tray did not do anything wrong to make it a two to tango situation. Zimmerman is mentally unstable, and it is proven by his doctor he is suffering post traumatic stress. There is only one crazy person, only one thug, and only one killer. That's not Trayvon.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
lol. I'm not defending Zimmerman, nor am I defending Trayvon. I won't claim to be a doctor, nor will I make baseless attacks because someone doesn't agree with me. I just feel the media trial has ruined any chance of impartiality.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eccentricBlue
lol. I'm not defending Zimmerman, nor am I defending Trayvon.
But you do claim to know the content of Zimmerman's mind when you say was merely, "giving a description of the suspect." There is no way of knowing that to Zimmerman this was merely a description without the freight of discrimination. It is merely what you surmise. The fact that you use the word "suspect" also plays right into Zimmerman's POV. It is a word that carries it's own freight.
Quote:
I just feel the media trial has ruined any chance of impartiality.
It was the police and the prosecutor whose appearance of partiality nearly lead to a miscarriage of justice; i.e. letting Zimmerman off without a trail. It was this clear injustice that attracted the press and initiated public outcry. As far a the possibility of a fair jury goes, I'm sure there are at least 12 posters right here in this thread who are as unbiased as you.
What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
But you do claim to know the content of Zimmerman's mind when you say was merely, "giving a description of the suspect." There is no way of knowing that to Zimmerman this was merely a description without the freight of discrimination. It is merely what you surmise. The fact that you use the word "suspect" also plays right into Zimmerman's POV. It is a word that carries it's own freight.
That sure is one far stretch to try and nail me on a position I've never taken. View it how you want, but calling him a suspect does not prove anybody's POV since he was responding to "suspicious activity". Stating a persons race happens all the time when reporting anything to the authorities, so what you consider racism (or implied racism) doesn't hold much merit.
It was the police and the prosecutor whose appearance of partiality nearly lead to a miscarriage of justice; i.e. letting Zimmerman off without a trail. It was this clear injustice that attracted the press and initiated public outcry. As far a the possibility of a fair jury goes, I'm sure there are at least 12 posters right here in this thread who are as unbiased as you.
What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.
The police's error in this case does not change a person's innocence or guilt. Florida has some laxed (sp) firearm laws and right to defend yourself laws which I am not fully familiar with. However if there was clear intent to harm, I doubt he would have been released. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in innocence until proven guilty. (even though I stated earlier that the justice system is not perfect).
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
What is unclear is why the police and the legal system in Florida were so quick to release Zimmerman. Certainly race and SYG play key roles here. A jury will decide Zimmerman's guilt or innocence and my interest in Zimmerman will end there. As of yet (so far as I'm aware) there is no investigation of the police or the prosecutor's office attempting to explain why Zimmerman was so readily released without prospect of a trial or even further questioning.
Trish, I think that information was released when Angela Corey, the 'new' prosecutor, who brought the murder charges against Zimmerman discussed and released all of that information. The lead detective of the Sanford P.D. wanted to arrest Zimmerman, but the original or local prosecutors office over-ruled the detective and Sanford P.D.
Considering the Sanford P.D. wanted to arrest Zimmerman the night of the shooting, I think they've gotten a bad wrap. They got Zimmerman to talk and not 'lawyer up'. He talked in the interrogation room and on videotape at the crime scene the next morning. He talked for hours. All of that will be valuable evidence at the trial. It's not just the detectives notes of what he said, it's Zimmerman himself, in his own voice on video.
IMO, it's the original prosecutors fault for not arresting Zimmerman that night, or the next morning after that videotaped interview. I might understand waiting for the toxicology results to come back on Trayvon. I wouldn't have if I was the prosecutor, but I might understand that. But, once those results came back clean, Zimmerman should have been arrested and forced to tell his story to a judge and jury.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stavros
Trial by media is common here, but I don't know of accused in criminal trials being given an opportunity to tell their story on tv before the trial begins. Reportage tends to take place in the newspapers before any proceedings have begun when even the more lurid papers such as Murdoch's Sun, will use words like 'allegedly' and 'according to police sources' when referring to someone under questioning -even if it turns out later they are innocent. More serious is the way that the press in a desperate attempt to get readers can stray over the boundaries; two tabloids, the Mirror and the Daily Mail were this week found guilty of contempt of court for publishing a story about a man already found guilty of murder, whose trial for abduction of another young woman was halted because of the prejudicial content of the articles -the papers will be fined at a later date, the report on it is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...ld?INTCMP=SRCH
Another example is that the judge in a trial of people accused of rioting in the UK last year, used his powers to stop the BBC from broadcasting two documentaries this week on the riots in case they prejudiced the outcome in court, the report on that is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/j...?newsfeed=true
The Courts take prejudice very seriously here, even if the media tries to get round it with as much sensational coverage as they can before the trial, and often to bad effect, too many innocent people have had their lives ruined by the outrageous needs of the press for lurid stories. Note that this only applies to England and Wales, as Scotland has its own legal system.
In the US, the courts don't have any such power over the media. The courts can order the police, the lawyers, and the person accused of the crime to not discuss certain things, but the media has free reign.
And, since the media can't be forced to identify their source, those parties can leak the information, anyway. As long as they cover their tracks, there isn't much the court can do. You can suspect one side of the leak, but in a case like this, who's to say the media didn't plant a microphone or a camera? If there's money to be made, we've seen they are willing to hack into phones and e-mail accounts.
The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime. I'm sure the Duke Lacrosse Team would agree .
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime
That is debatable -before a trial, the press can report as much sensational detail as they can, some go as far to the edge as they can, and in the process ruin the reputations of innocent people who have been wrongly accused and may not even be charged. In Bristol a few years ago, the landlord of a house in which a young woman was murdered was effectively accused by the tabloids of being the murderer -he had been questioned by police and the press leapt on his 'eccentric' appearance -he had fluffy blueish hair, had been a teacher of English at the nearby and prestigious Clifton College -but eventually he was not charged by the police and the press were exposed as over-zealous and the man sued them, and received substantial damages. The Leveson Enquiry currently taking place is investigating the various methods the press use to access information for their stories -bribing the police to access private data, using private detectives to hack into phones and computers -yes, once a trial begins the coverage has to report it to the letter, which is why when you look back innocence looks betrayed, and that doesn't cover those convicted who spent years in prison for crimes they did not commit -we may have laws preventing the kind of media coverage we have seen with Zimmerman over there, but our system is far from ideal.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
But race did play a factor, I remember some recordings of Zimmerman racial profiling the black kid. So if It's not about race, then we kinda have to ask what then?
You are a prime example of how the media has "poisoned the well" by not only attempting to try this case in the media, but doing so in an extremely fraudulent and unethical manner.
Those recordings that you remember were intentionally, fraudulently edited by NBC News. NBC later fired a producer over the issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1414200.html
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Poison the well? If it were not for the media there wouldn't be a trial; i.e. there'd be no well to poison!
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stavros
The system in England and Wales is certainly better for those who were wrongfully accused of a crime
That is debatable -before a trial, the press can report as much sensational detail as they can, some go as far to the edge as they can, and in the process ruin the reputations of innocent people who have been wrongly accused and may not even be charged. In Bristol a few years ago, the landlord of a house in which a young woman was murdered was effectively accused by the tabloids of being the murderer -he had been questioned by police and the press leapt on his 'eccentric' appearance -he had fluffy blueish hair, had been a teacher of English at the nearby and prestigious Clifton College -but eventually he was not charged by the police and the press were exposed as over-zealous and the man sued them, and received substantial damages. The Leveson Enquiry currently taking place is investigating the various methods the press use to access information for their stories -bribing the police to access private data, using private detectives to hack into phones and computers -yes, once a trial begins the coverage has to report it to the letter, which is why when you look back innocence looks betrayed, and that doesn't cover those convicted who spent years in prison for crimes they did not commit -we may have laws preventing the kind of media coverage we have seen with Zimmerman over there, but our system is far from ideal.
Stavros, I didn't mean it was good, or fair. I just meant it was better than it is here in the U.S. All of that stuff can be done here, too. And it doesn't get any better once the trial starts.
And it's not just the tabloids over here. It's the supposedly 'respectable' media over here. NBC/MSNBC, ABC, and CNN have been the offenders in this shooting.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Hey Sean Hannity!
If I'm ever up on murder charges....???
Don't Help Me!!!!
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Donkey
You are a prime example of how the media has "poisoned the well" by not only attempting to try this case in the media, but doing so in an extremely fraudulent and unethical manner.
Those recordings that you remember were intentionally, fraudulently edited by NBC News. NBC later fired a producer over the issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1414200.html
But i don't think when the cops told him to leave the kid alone was edited, or the fact that Trayvon really didn't have anything on him to even be a threat, or that that Zimmerman even had the right to carry a gun or shoot as a neighborhood watch for the matter. It was irresponsible, negligent, and still murder at the end of the day regardless if you believe it to be race issue or not.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
But i don't think when the cops told him to leave the kid alone was edited, or the fact that Trayvon really didn't have anything on him to even be a threat, or that that Zimmerman even had the right to carry a gun or shoot as a neighborhood watch for the matter. It was irresponsible, negligent, and still murder at the end of the day regardless if you believe it to be race issue or not.
Your comments are exactly why it so dangerous to try a case like this in the court of public opinion. You have almost no knowledge of the facts of the case or, more importantly, the law.
1. Listen to the call. The police did not tell Zimmerman to leave Martin alone. But, even if they had, it does not change the facts of the case. It's a moot issue.
2. Martin became a threat the moment he assaulted Zimmerman.
3. As an American, Zimmerman absolutely had the right, as a licensee, to carry his gun. He also had the right to use it, of course.
4. Please learn what constitutes murder in the US judicial system.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Donkey
Your comments are exactly why it so dangerous to try a case like this in the court of public opinion. You have almost no knowledge of the facts of the case or, more importantly, the law.
1. Listen to the call. The police did not tell Zimmerman to leave Martin alone. But, even if they had, it does not change the facts of the case. It's a moot issue.
2. Martin became a threat the moment he assaulted Zimmerman.
3. As an American, Zimmerman absolutely had the right, as a licensee, to carry his gun. He also had the right to use it, of course.
4. Please learn what constitutes murder in the US judicial system.
Wait hold on...they can't even prove trayvon even hit him, Zimmerman just claimed that, there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman. Why would you walk up to a kid with the intention of a violent altercation and then shoot an unarmed kid? Do you know everything about the case? It's okay if we don't i don't think we all know 100 percent. However I'm looking at the points against Zimmerman.
Answer this....
Why or how was trayvon ever a threat? Did he have gun? or did he break into a house or rob the candy store he bought the candy from? Or assaulted anyone without cause? Or rape someone? or vandalized?
So why then was he shot? Zimmerman has been in the military I'm sorry but there is a way to injure someone without actually killing them IF trayvon really was assaulting him. He is trained better than that I'm sure. Looking at probability the military trained man would have easily restrained or subdues the skinny kid down. Sorry but I don't agree, Zimmerman is very much guilty of murder or at least 2nd degree...
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
Wait hold on...they can't even prove trayvon even hit him, Zimmerman just claimed that, there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman. Why would you walk up to a kid with the intention of a violent altercation and then shoot an unarmed kid? Do you know everything about the case? It's okay if we don't i don't think we all know 100 percent. However I'm looking at the points against Zimmerman.
Answer this....
Why or how was trayvon ever a threat? Did he have gun? or did he break into a house or rob the candy store he bought the candy from? Or assaulted anyone without cause? Or rape someone? or vandalized?
So why then was he shot? Zimmerman has been in the military I'm sorry but there is a way to injure someone without actually killing them IF trayvon really was assaulting him. He is trained better than that I'm sure. Looking at probability the military trained man would have easily restrained or subdues the skinny kid down. Sorry but I don't agree, Zimmerman is very much guilty of murder or at least 2nd degree...
George Zimmerman may have indeed committed a crime that night, but. . .
1. The autopsy report showed injuries to Trayvon's knuckles. Pictures and a medical report document injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head. Do you think Zimmerman beat himself up?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-his-knuckles/
2. I've never heard that George Zimmerman was in the military. His father and grandfather were. Where did you read GZ was in the military?
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Evon, you make one factually incorrect statement after another about this case. Please put your emotions aside and take an objective look at the facts of the case, as well as the US laws that will be applicable to this case.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
George Zimmerman may have indeed committed a crime that night, but. . .
1. The autopsy report showed injuries to Trayvon's knuckles. Pictures and a medical report document injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head. Do you think Zimmerman beat himself up?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-his-knuckles/
2. I've never heard that George Zimmerman was in the military. His father and grandfather were. Where did you read GZ was in the military?
Wasn't it also stated in reports that zimmerman followed trayvon with a vehicle and then got off and chased after him? If Trayvon punched Zimmerman is it possible to think that Trayvon may have felt threatened with an adult male coming after him when he had no clue what was going on, He was just staying at his dad'd fiancee's house in the neighborhood. What would you do if a man just chased after you for no reason, isn't that threatening and unsettling? especially for a kid walking alone?
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
Wasn't it also stated in reports that zimmerman followed trayvon with a vehicle and then got off and chased after him? If Trayvon punched Zimmerman is it possible to think that Trayvon may have felt threatened with an adult male coming after him when he had no clue what was going on, He was just staying at his dad'd fiancee's house in the neighborhood. What would you do if a man just chased after you for no reason, isn't that threatening and unsettling? especially for a kid walking alone?
I didn't say GZ is not guilty.
I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.
But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.
Why make stuff up?
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
I didn't say GZ is not guilty.
I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.
But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.
Why make stuff up?
You are talking to someone who is notorious for making things up.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
I didn't say GZ is not guilty.
I just said you are either misinformed, or making stuff up. Zimmerman may be as guilty as hell based on what happened that night, when we eventually find out what happened that night.
But you're trying to create the myth that there is no reason to think Trayvon was scuffling with Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was a military veteran, and skilled at boxing or wrestling.
Why make stuff up?
No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...
Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...
Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!
lol evon. I see you haven't changed. Still a complete moron. So funny how butt hurt you get when people point out all of your bull shit. You can say any thing you want over the internet, I don't care. After reading all the things that were posted about you here and other places, there is nothing you can say that will bother me. Hopefully Seanchai just bans you and does away with you and all the crap you start with people here.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
LOL LOL LOL lol lol lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case. If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...
Shut up Amy, Go do some ab crunches to get rid of that pot belly.
Im not making that up either!
:kiss::banana::iagree::dancing::Bowdown:
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmyDaly
lol evon. I see you haven't change. Still a complete moron.
Well until you stop starting shit like you always do, then come talk to me about changing! Your nose is taking up the screen on your avatar change it pinnocio!
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
No I was not making stuff up, although i am trying to analyze a probability, but has nothing to do with my knowledge of this case.
Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:
there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman
If that isn't making something up... then what is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
If i were trayvon I wouldn't fight Zimmerman and he probably has a gun being it the state of Florida, that's all...
Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.
More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?
Didn't stop these two morons from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.
The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and play their luck.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
Well until you stop starting shit like you always do, then come talk to me about changing! Your nose is taking up the screen on your avatar change it pinnocio!
lol...here we go. Lets hear more. Give me all you got. :banana:
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:
there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman
If that isn't making something up... then what is it?
Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.
More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?
Didn't stop
these two morons from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.
The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and
play their luck.
I admit, i read that article it was probably inaccurate...
I would have ran like trayvon did, that actually was a fact...
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
I admit, i read that article it was probably inaccurate...
There is your first mistake... reading a single article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
I would have ran like trayvon did, that actually was a fact...
A fact? Says who/what? Another single, possibly inaccurate article?
So from what you are saying... it sounds like you think Mr Martin was running (for his life) and Mr Zimmerman caught up and then the physical confrontation occurred?
What if... Mr Martin doubled back? Has that possibility never entered your mind? Why not? The available evidence at least supports the possibility.
I'll tell you a little secrets... you have few facts... neither do I... only two people know exactly what happened that night and one of them is dead... however with a little logic and research one can begin to piece together what happened and arrive at a plausible scenario... something you (and several here) have refused to do.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
There is your first mistake... reading a single article.
A fact? Says who/what? Another single, possibly inaccurate article?
So from what you are saying... it sounds like you think Mr Martin was running (for his life) and Mr Zimmerman caught up and then the physical confrontation occurred?
What if...
Mr Martin doubled back?
I'll tell you a little secrets... you have few facts... neither do I... only two people know exactly what happened that night and one of them is dead... however with a little logic and research one can begin to piece together what happened and arrive at a plausible scenario... something you (and several here) have refused to do.
its actually on police record look it up... and many witness account.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EvonRose
its actually on police record look it up... and many witness account.
What is? Which part of the record? Which witness account?
You will please note that I have linked to multiple sources (both this evening and previously)... and yet here you've linked to what? oh yes... butkus useful or relevant information.
I could be wrong... but it does look like you are making stuff up (again).
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
actually tHEY FOUND THAT MARTIN HAD BRUISES ON AT LEAST ONE KNUCLE but TRAYVON MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO DEFEND HISSELF.
Girlfriend: Trayvon Martin was followed
WPLG/CNN|Added on March 21, 2012
Trayvon's girlfriend: the neighborhood watch captain accused of shooting Martin was following him, might have pushed him.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...phone.wplg-cnn
zimmerman charges pdf
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im...an.charges.pdf
zimmerman got out of vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1528268.html
FACT IN EVIDENCE SAYS THAT ZIMMERMAN STARTED THE CONFRONTATION
"zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a loaded 9mm pistol and pursued/stalked Travon Martin a minor who was doing nothing illegal and WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164...mes/?gt1=43001
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
Um... yes you did, you made a statement which you claimed as fact:
there as absolutely no proof on trayvons body of him hitting Zimmerman
If that isn't making something up... then what is it?
Riiiight... because the average resident of Florida knows that it's a 'stand your ground' state and that concealed weapons permit isn't hard to acquire... and that there is a 57% chance (see, other people can make things up as well) that a person you encounter on the street is packing at the time.
More so... what makes you think that if you were in a similar situation that you wouldn't attack because they might have a gun?
Didn't stop
these two morons from trying to rob a place... and got shot for their trouble.
The sad thing... is the stats are on the sides of the robbers... most victims (or near by witnesses) are unarmed and unable to respond... the robbers know this and
play their luck.
fire fighter pulls a zimmerman over loud music;
Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube
Texas man gets 40 years in stand-your-ground case
HOUSTON -- Retired Texas firefighter Raul Rodriguez, armed with a handgun and video camera, had claimed he was standing his ground and had no choice but to use deadly force when he fatally shot his unarmed neighbor after confronting him about a noisy party.
A jury decided otherwise Wednesday, sentencing Rodriguez to 40 years in prison for killing the neighbor, Kelly Danaher, a 36-year-old elementary school teacher. Prosecutors said they are hopeful the punishment will stop others from settling matters with violence and trying to use Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law as a defense.
"I think it sends a clear message that this was not a case of stand-your-ground," said prosecutor Kelli Johnson. "And I think from his behavior, his intent, the provocation ... shows that this had ... nothing to do with self-defense."
Rodriguez, who faced up to life in prison for the 2010 killing, will be eligible for parole in 20 years. Jurors deliberated about five hours Wednesday before reaching their verdict. The same jury convicted him of murder on June 13.
His reference to standing his ground was similar to the claim made by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.
During closing arguments earlier Wednesday in the trial's punishment phase, Johnson referenced Zimmerman but told jurors that case was different from what Rodriguez was convicted of doing.
In a 22-minute video he recorded that night, Rodriguez can be heard telling a police dispatcher "my life is in danger now" and "these people are going to go try and kill me." He then said, "I'm standing my ground here," and fatally shot Danaher and wounded the other two men.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/2...#storylink=cpy
Jerome Ersland Gets Life for Gunning Down 16-Year-Old Drug Store Robber
On today's episode of Great Moral Dilemmas of the Day, we bring you the perplexing case of a vigilante pharmacist. The year was 2009, and Jerome Ersland was working at Reliable Pharmacy, the store he owned in Oklahoma City. It would not be a good day...
Two armed punks came in and tried to rob the store. Ersland, not a druggist to be trifled with, pulled out a gun and shot 16-year-old Antwun Parker in the head.
Video of the incident shows the second mope fleeing. Ersland follows him out of the store, but the bad guy is already gone.
It would seem an open and shut case of self-defense -- until security cameras depict what happened next.
Erland returned to the store and could be seen digging for something behind the counter. Then he retrieved another gun and methodically moved toward Parker, who was laying wounded on the floor. Just to make sure Parker lost his interest in robbery, Ersland pumped him full of five more bullets, killing him.
In Oklahoma City, he was hailed as a hero for taking out a bad guy. Parker's accomplices, Anthony Morrison and Emanuel Mitchell, were subsequently convicted of first-degree murder in the death of their friend, plus conspiracy for organizing the heist.
But jurors didn't seem so enthralled with Ersland once they learned the full breadth of the incident. In court, his defense was hoping to shoot for a manslaughter charge. The jury decided instead to convict him of murder.
He won't be sentenced till July 11, but he faces the possibility of life with parole.
So what do you think, dearest reader? Was this a case of a man simply protecting himself and his employees? Or was this merely a cold-blooded execution disguised as heroism?
SEE VIDEO
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/...life_for_g.php
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
It's amazing how many right wing nuts are on a tranny forum.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silcc69
It's amazing how many right wing nuts are on a tranny forum.
I think its amazing how this has turned in to a liberal vs conservative or right vs left wing thing. It just goes to show how the media and government likes to use these social issues to turn people against each other. I also don't believe that just because you think one way or the other about this situation that it makes you right or left wing.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmyDaly
I think its amazing how this has turned in to a liberal vs conservative or right vs left wing thing. It just goes to show how the media and government likes to use these social issues to turn people against each other. I also don't believe that just because you think one way or the other about this situation that it makes you right or left wing.
Well you know what conservatives think of porn and well transsexuals. Needless if it were up to them this site would've been shutdown.
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
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Originally Posted by
bobvela
What is? Which part of the record? Which witness account?
You will please note that I have linked to multiple sources (both this evening and previously)... and yet here you've linked to what? oh yes... butkus useful or relevant information.
I could be wrong... but it does look like you are making stuff up (again).
Actually I'm not on this one, there were strong sources to say otherwise.... Refer to Natina. I also read it on Wikipedia months ago, But I don't know how accurate that is. I am just saying what I read no need to get nasty.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Sources: Wikipedia and Natina
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmyDaly
Sources: Wikipedia and Natina
Lol what is your problem? You really are a condescending fat child... No one attacked you sweetie, so whatever you have against me let it go!
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Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
natina, you too prove what happens when one only reads selective sources but doesn't think for themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
actually tHEY FOUND THAT MARTIN HAD BRUISES ON AT LEAST ONE KNUCLE but TRAYVON MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO DEFEND HISSELF.
No one is saying he had no right to defend himself... however that right (like what Mr Zimmerman also had) does have limits.
During the time that Mr Zimmerman was pursuing Mr Martin... a good argument can be made for Mr Martin's right to defend himself... however if you consider my above link, suggesting that Mr Martin may have doubled back... the moment he turned around and approached Mr Zimmerman... his right to self-defense quickly goes away as he becomes an initiator.
Many like to say about Mr Zimmerman: "he should have stayed in his truck"... however if Mr Martin did double back... then a similar argument can be made: "he should have kept running home".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
Present a specifc and quotable transcript or document or withdraw your worthless 'evidence'... doubly so when clicking on the link says "The requested video is not available.
Don't tell me you are using out of date sources?!?!!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
I've read it. What part do you wish to call attention to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
Again... I am looking for specific evidence from you that that happened. Don't just link me to an article, cite a specific FACT from something that said that Mr Zimmerman said "Hey boy, come over here... I think you are breaking the law... and even if you aren't... you're black so I want to shoot you!"
Could/did that happen? Perhaps... only you do not have the facts to support your claim that that unequivocally did happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
And I get out of my vehicle most days carrying a loaded 38... so what? Both Mr Zimmerman and I have permits to legally carry.
Now... you expand upon your copy and pasted 'argument' by saying that Mr Martin was a minor (irrelevant) who was doing nothing illegal (says you, but at the time he was looking suspicious to Mr Zimmerman (he must be a racist!!!))... and who was running away from Mr Zimmerman.
You will please recall from the 911 transcript that Mr Martin approached Mr Zimmerman’s vehicle... then ran. “Nyeh! Trayvon started it! He approced the racist Zimmerman first!”
Was Mr Martin doing anything illegal? We don't know... but it seems not. Was Mr Zimmerman? With the exception of the second-degree murder charge... it seems not as well.
More so... funny how you ignore a quote in that video which proceeds the one you transcribed:
"Its possible that the defense will be able to use this to indicate that Trayvon Martin was in some ways the aggressor. And if he was the aggressor, then of course their story will be that George Zimmerman was defending himself and which case he would be covered by stand your ground immunity"
Note I’ve ignored the continued copy and paste jobs you added after your initial post as more irrelevance.
