Shemales are just men... don't take my word for it

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Originally Posted by lisaparadise

fuck off retard

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truth hurts huh doll?
And she is more feminine then you will ever be..
and you KNOW that lol

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Originally Posted by dafame

It's that attitude that I see a limitation in many girls though. To me I see that as "not looking at the reality of the situation" because if being "reluctant to invest emotionally in a relationship if there's a chance that it is the "t" that a man is after" is what it's about then there isn't any man on this forum that's worthy of the love of one of the girls. In other words its impossible to be a man participating in this forum who isn't here interacting with the girls strictly BECAUSE they're transsexuals.

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dafame...
Truth is lol..

that most Tgirls aren't intelligent enough to be a Tgirl... and too many Tlovers aren't intelligent enough to date a Tgirl... it seems...

Or perhaps it takes a certain sobriaty...
There are so many people around that encourage eachothers delussions... maybe you should let them...

Its like taking God away from faithfull people...

this girl below is very brave and I instantly like her...

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Originally Posted by dafame

I understand the paradox, I am just not one to conform to it. If there is a woman out there for me she'll have to be closer to the understanding that I have or it just simply won't happen.

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Goes both ways...
I would feel very uncomfortable to date a man that would never bring this up...why he likes me... why he likes that I am a TS... or why he does not care...
I dont think I would be satisfied with a simple: you are just a nice girl and Im straight...

especially not when the guy wants to suck my cock lol

I am not saying that is does not happen... straight guys do fall in love with a TS...But at least when you are a TS,... be self conscious of that... and when you date a TS.. be self conscious of that...

I mean he would be my lover
I would WANT to talk about it to him
I HAVE to...

I want to share my feelings too...

Its only logical

no this shit againnnnn

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Originally Posted by Nikka

no this shit againnnnn

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No need to denigrate the people who are participating. There's been some very good conversation going on. We know what the topic is prior to clicking on the link.

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Originally Posted by dafame

I hear your point loud and clear MacShreach but I think you're missing mine. My point is based on the principle of what I believe and I'm not willing to compromise that for the sake of anyone. Because to do so would mean that I'm lying to the person that I'm with.

It's hard for me to understand how anyone that deals with TS can't view them as special or in some ways different than genetic women. I understand that most transsexuals don't wan to be seen as special and want only to be seen as "female" no different than any other naturally born woman. Accept when it comes to the mans acceptence of them and how he relates to this issue when it comes to the people in his life. She can't be "female" no more "special" that any other but if infact she's not the only TS I've dated then I become a (not my choice of word but the best to make the point) "faggot". My point is those particular women are as unacceptable to me as I would be to them. Because I will not be the only person in the relationship that has to accept the issue of transsexuality.

I never made any indication that I'd treat her any different than I would any other woman (or like a man to be more direct).

I understand the paradox, I am just not one to conform to it. If there is a woman out there for me she'll have to be closer to the understanding that I have or it just simply won't happen.

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no transsexual is delusional.we are perfectly aware what our original origins are but by our very nature we just want to be seen as women (just a bit different).
we didnt cry ourselves to sleep when we were younger because we wanted just so badly more than anything to be a tranny.we cried our selves to sleep and for some even attempted to take our lives because we knew more than anything that we were meant to be a girl but some how got stuck in this hell of being in a boys body.
if you love and respect tgirls as much as you say you do than you would understand our pain and struggle to not only be a female but to also be accepted as female.
__________________

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

no transsexual is delusional.we are perfectly aware what our original origins are but by our very nature we just want to be seen as women (just a bit different).
we didnt cry ourselves to sleep when we were younger because we wanted just so badly more than anything to be a tranny.we cried our selves to sleep and for some even attempted to take our lives because we knew more than anything that we were meant to be a girl but some how got stuck in this hell of being in a boys body.
__________________

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I don't and haven't disputed this. Infact I made this same point earlier. I'm on your side.

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Originally Posted by Nikka

no this shit againnnnn

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Yeah, you see what happened on that thread about this place being full of cds you started just before you swanned off on your lovely hols? Carnage. Sheer carnage. Typical woman, start a fight and then disappear.

Y'know,it's almost like the old days.:)

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Originally Posted by dafame

I don't and haven't disputed this. Infact I made this same point earlier. I'm on your side.

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Pity, then that you snipped the last part of Amber's post, which was the point, after all:

"if you love and respect tgirls as much as you say you do than you would understand our pain and struggle to not only be a female but to also be accepted as female."

Which is my point too. I do see where you're coming from, but my support remains for Amber's position. I think if you really are on her side, you need to re-examine your position on this very carefully.

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Originally Posted by KittyPride

dafame...
Truth is lol..

that most Tgirls aren't intelligent enough to be a Tgirl... and too many Tlovers aren't intelligent enough to date a Tgirl... it seems...

Or perhaps it takes a certain sobriaty...
There are so many people around that encourage eachothers delussions... maybe you should let them...

Its like taking God away from faithfull people...

this girl below is very brave and I instantly like her...

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Thanks for your post KittyPride. You understand exaclty where I'm coming from and appreciate your bravery is stepping out away from the norm.

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Originally Posted by dafame

I don't and haven't disputed this. Infact I made this same point earlier. I'm on your side.

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doesnt come across that way when you support a statement saying that tgirls are just men or make arguments about why we cant just be okay with identifying as transsexual...if you really understood than you would know why a large majority of us dont identify as tranny outside the porn world

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts :D
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

doesnt come across that way when you support a statement saying that tgirls are just men or make arguments about why we cant just be okay with identifying as transsexual...if you really understood than you would know why a large majority of us dont identify as tranny outside the porn world

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Amberskyi this has been a very good conversation but I can't continue it with a person that misrepresents my statements. All I can do is suggest you go back and read through my posts again because I can't just keep defending positions if their not my positions to defend.

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Originally Posted by KittyPride

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts :D
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

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Everything you just said there was put beautifully. This has been the exact argument that I've been making. The two are not mutually exclusive but deserve mutual respect and appreciation. It's these two aspects that make up who you are as a person and that reality is something that your partner has no choice but to accept. Perfect.

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Originally Posted by dafame

Amberskyi this has been a very good conversation but I can't continue it with a person that misrepresents my statements. All I can do is suggest you go back and read through my posts again because I can't just keep defending positions if their not my positions to defend.

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your right i was reading a bit and you seemed to recant some of your statements and you seem to be a decent bloke..my bad lol

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Originally Posted by KittyPride

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts :D
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

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to be honest id much rather be accepted as a woman rather than be accepted as a trans woman.im sorry, i know its weird right? acceptance should just be acceptance but i cant help but not feel that way.
for instance my boyfriends mother completely accepts and welcomes me as a trans woman but if i had my way she wouldnt know i was trans at all.i feel like no matter how cool,open minded and accepting someone is there are always going to be some connotations attached to transsexuals and also at the back of their head will be the thought that i once was a guy.i just rather due with out that.

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Originally Posted by dafame

Everything you just said there was put beautifully. This has been the exact argument that I've been making. The two are not mutually exclusive but deserve mutual respect and appreciation. It's these two aspects that make up who you are as a person and that reality is something that your partner has no choice but to accept. Perfect.

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Thanks Dafame...

Its so nice to as agree with someone for once yaaah!

Missed that! Lol

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

to be honest id much rather be accepted as a woman rather than be accepted as a trans woman.im sorry, i know its weird right? acceptance should just be acceptance but i cant help but not feel that way.
for instance my boyfriends mother completely accepts and welcomes me as a trans woman but if i had my way she wouldnt know i was trans at all.i feel like no matter how cool,open minded and accepting someone is there are always going to be some connotations attached to transsexuals and also at the back of their head will be the thought that i once was a guy.i just rather due with out that.

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Hi Amber...
Thats true i know exactly what you mean...
But is not that wishing you were a normal girl? Perhaps not...but thats what i wish for me....
Only ive come this far, for me personally, there is no going back to being just a girl...
I know im a pure girl on the inside, but being a ts has shaped me, has changed me, and not to sound like i pity myself...put personally...it scarred me...my womanhood...there is no going back to it for me...only at times and i usually cry then...lol...i deal with this by accepting im a ts...and i try to turn the negative in the positive....it has helped me to highlight the positives and being proud of the girl i am who ultimately survived this long for 30 years...i see that as an accomplishment and am proud of that...
To be merely seen as a woman, i feel that does not do me justice entirely...
I dont have to be ashamed of me...
Despite the prejudice....which is nasty...
I trust that the people that love me believe me...and especially woman seem to believe me...
Men often like to think im one of them too when they know...but thats nice if that helps me get positive attention from them ;)
Love men, after all

Xxxx

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Originally Posted by MacShreach

Thoughtful post, Giovanni. I think the problem arises from a fundamental moral absolutism--that is to say that everything is either 'yes' or 'no', 'black' or 'white' 'male' female' etc. I think this comes from the absolutism implicit in the monotheistic religious culture that even today, for better or worse, informs our society. People are predisposed towards absolutist answers; the trouble is that people are human, and thus a species of living thing, and natural science tells us that within each species there is variation. Everything is a continuum, not an on/off switch. So people's sense of gender identity is really varied, just like their sense of orientation. One of the nice things about this board is you really get to see a lot of examples of that both from the men and the women.

It really can't come as a surprise that someone who does not have a standard alpha-male sense of gender will spend a lot of time wondering what the hell is going on, when they live in a society that preaches an absolutist viewpoint. At the end of the day though, if that person is happier and more fulfilled understanding that whatever she was handed at birth, she's a woman, then that's what she is, just as much as if she decides that she's not a woman or a man but somewhere in between. This is all quite natural, and the reason there is a Kinsey scale for sexuality, and a Benjamin scale for gender identification. (Yes I know about Blanchard/Bailey, but that work has been completely shot to bits in the scientific literature and I won't waste time on it here.)

Did you know, BTW, that the ancient Persians had at least six genders that were accepted within their ideology? And they were not the only culture to be much more relaxed about this sort of thing.

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Best post on this topic so far. In a nutshell, religion requires binary on-off male or female. Real life produces many different variations.

Research into the brain has now identified dozens of different situations where your brain goes one way and your body does not match religious tradition. In particular, it is known that this can occur in the first third of pregnancy, so it it perfectly feasible to have a "mis-match" of brain and body 6 months before you are born. Or is it really a mis-match, as that is how life really happens?

Equally, it can happen much later, such as at puberty.

From memory, whilst insisting that you are either just male or female, Jewish religion actually had 6 categories of intersex conditions at least 2,500 years ago.

I wonder if they got some ideas from the Persians?

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Originally Posted by iago_delgado

Best post on this topic so far. In a nutshell, religion requires binary on-off male or female. Real life produces many different variations.

Research into the brain has now identified dozens of different situations where your brain goes one way and your body does not match religious tradition. In particular, it is known that this can occur in the first third of pregnancy, so it it perfectly feasible to have a "mis-match" of brain and body 6 months before you are born. Or is it really a mis-match, as that is how life really happens?

Equally, it can happen much later, such as at puberty.

From memory, whilst insisting that you are either just male or female, Jewish religion actually had 6 categories of intersex conditions at least 2,500 years ago.

I wonder if they got some ideas from the Persians?

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Hi! Thanks for the support. If you could remember where you found that info about Judaism recognising 6 categories of intersex conditions, I'd be mightily obliged.

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Originally Posted by dafame

Amberskyi this has been a very good conversation but I can't continue it with a person that misrepresents my statements. All I can do is suggest you go back and read through my posts again because I can't just keep defending positions if their not my positions to defend.

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Man, I wouldn't blame anyone for refusing to re-read your posts. I got halfways through the first one and said fuck it. You use about 3 times more words than you need to, your logic is generally convoluted and you obviously have way more esteem for your writing than what is warranted. It's a miracle you got a couple of the girls to engage in this thread.

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Originally Posted by terminator2011

An honest statement by the best looking tranny on the planet

Get a life "girls" and fact up to the fact of what she says makes a whole lotta sense!

http://ut1.xhamster.com/t/301/5_b_1013301.jpg

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She's confused about her gender. Which is very understandable. I mean, part of life is, well, from time to time being, well, confused -- :)
I mean, it seems a lot of guys on here are confused about their sexual orientation.
I wouldn't be too hard on her. I sympathize with her. As I sympathize with most people.

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Originally Posted by Tiffany Starr

Kinda hard to take that seriously when i'm trans and have and F on my license. I'm pretty sure they only put the F on a females license. I don't need anyone telling me who I am, I am a woman regardless of others opinions. If many doctors, psychiatrists, and my state see's me as a woman, then who is anyone else to tell me otherwise?

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Nicely written Tiffany....

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Originally Posted by Odelay

Man, I wouldn't blame anyone for refusing to re-read your posts. I got halfways through the first one and said fuck it. You use about 3 times more words than you need to, your logic is generally convoluted and you obviously have way more esteem for your writing than what is warranted. It's a miracle you got a couple of the girls to engage in this thread.

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Who refused to re-read my thread? I'll re-phrase it for you "you use about 3 times words I would have used" (that's the only way that statement has any meaning). The "esteem for your writing thing was a bit strange and seems almost like an attempt to say something witty. I won't give that any credence by responding.

Your comments might carry some weight if there was anyone else that had expressed the same sentiment. You're way late on the conversation where in its current state everyone seems to have a clear understanding & respect for my stance. Then you come in with this b.s.? Admitting that you got half way through the first post and said "fuck it" automatically disqualifies you from being you from being able to make the logic comment (I'd have to imagine you're a bright enough guy to know that).

This is a clear example of someone who didn't read through the thread but instead decided to take what he thought would be the popular stance and saw an opportunity to strike out in an attempt to earn some applause from the girls. Trust me Odelay, this isn't going to make them want you. I'm going to bed. Enjoy the rest of your night everybody.

How attractive a person is does not make them be any more of an expert than any other person with gender identity issues. I've gotten the impression the girl is very much on her own, with little to no support network, and that can make transitioning incredibly hard for any girl. On the other hand, maybe she's like the person formerly known as "Dakota Moss" who seems to have just been a confused gay man? That's for her to find out.

I do think the study this book was predominantly based on (Amazon.com: A Billion Wicked Thoughts: What the World's Largest Experiment Reveals about Human Desire (9780525952091): Ogi Ogas, Sai Gaddam: Books is the closest thing I've ever seen to a proper explanation of sexuality and gender identity. Half of it is as boring as hell and not that well written, but the content pretty much explains everything. They propose that our minds are like layers of systems, all falling in some degree of the gender binary, from male to female. If it's all half and half or one goes one way and one another, it's going to create a mess in anyone's head. Anyway, check it out if you're really curious about what makes this part of people tick. I hope the girl comes to some reconciliation for some inner peace, one way or another...

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Originally Posted by KittyPride

dafame...
Truth is lol..

that most Tgirls aren't intelligent enough to be a Tgirl... and too many Tlovers aren't intelligent enough to date a Tgirl... it seems...

Or perhaps it takes a certain sobriaty...
There are so many people around that encourage eachothers delussions... maybe you should let them...

Its like taking God away from faithfull people...

this girl below is very brave and I instantly like her...

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omg.. if you''re not a troll or a man I'm going to be really shocked

If Ellery was 6' 4'' and weighed 220 pounds would this thread be 11 pages long?

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Originally Posted by tsnajwa

omg.. if you''re not a troll or a man I'm going to be really shocked

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Be shocked but why?

Im like this girl Ellery...i know ill never be a normal woman...does not matter how i feel, and my lovers have to deal with that too.but its not negative...

Being a ts has made me humble...more empathic...more able to enjoy each day and be thankfull and enjoying small things in life...and i have strong feelings for my friends and lovers...also it made me mentally stronger then i would have been if i wasnt ts...

Most ts hate me coz im humble or coz i tell them there is no escaping being a ts

They are only busy with passabillity and telling themselves they are just "woman" and pissing on the less passeble or avoiding men interested in them

Thats not my reality...nor will it ever be..

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Originally Posted by tsnajwa

omg.. if you''re not a troll or a man I'm going to be really shocked

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Bingo. Thank you. He's this weird dude who embarrassed himself here for about two years straight. Then he disappeared, came back, and started making believe he was a TS. Now he's doing it again.

He's the most mentally disturbed HA troll ever. His life would make a good plot for an episode of Criminal Minds. We just need to know where he's been hiding the bodies.

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Originally Posted by KittyPride

Be shocked but why?

Im like this girl Ellery...i know ill never be a normal woman...does not matter how i feel, and my lovers have to deal with that too.but its not negative...

Being a ts has made me humble...more empathic...more able to enjoy each day and be thankfull and enjoying small things in life...and i have strong feelings for my friends and lovers...also it made me mentally stronger then i would have been if i wasnt ts...

Most ts hate me coz im humble or coz i tell them there is no escaping being a ts

They are only busy with passabillity and telling themselves they are just "woman" and pissing on the less passeble or avoiding men interested in them

Thats not my reality...nor will it ever be..

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Oh for fuxake dry up already! Just shut your festering bucket, clean the spooge off your keyboard and fucking well STOP PRETENDING. Not only are you a crossdresser--well, maybe even a wannabe crossdresser--and not TS at all, you've been found out several times already, you are EXACTLY the kind of fantasising pest that fucks up places like this by pissing off the girls, and for that matter ME. And anyone here will tell you how famously patient and tolerant I am.

So piss off somewhere else and moan there about your fucking autogynephile problems and how nobody the fuck gives shit one about it over here. PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by MacShreach

Oh for fuxake dry up already! Just shut your festering bucket, clean the spooge off your keyboard and fucking well STOP PRETENDING. Not only are you a crossdresser--well, maybe even a wannabe crossdresser--and not TS at all, you've been found out several times already, you are EXACTLY the kind of fantasising pest that fucks up places like this by pissing off the girls, and for that matter ME. And anyone here will tell you how famously patient and tolerant I am.

So piss off somewhere else and moan there about your fucking autogynephile problems and how nobody the fuck gives shit one about it over here. PLEASE.

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lmao!

We are all gazing at shadows cast upon the cave wall. When Archimedes drew a circle upon the beach he gazed down upon a crude rut, the thickness of a stick and the irregularities of the sandy canvas. But he beheld the true form of a CIRCLE and reasoned with perfect certainty that its circumference was exactly proportional to its diameter. So too I am a dancing shadow. A crude exemplar. Yet I partake of the form WOMAN. Reason about WOMAN and you reason about me. Anyone who doubts it, partakes of the form ASSHOLE. (And I won’t take no shit about the distinction between a form and a metaphor :) )

Trish - you are one very witty lady. But I think you are shadow boxing with an Aristotelian - or assholetelian.

Very good coinage! Two days ago in this thread I was Wittgenstein (the later Wittgenstein of the Investigations), today life is much easier, I'm just an assholetelian.

No YOU are not an Assholetalian! You are a Platonist. Jeez

That's sweet of you to say. So come and tell me Prospero, what is [it] that Platonists have in common by virtue of which they are Platonists? And assholetalians, what have they in common by virtue of which they are assholes?

I tire of examinations and inquiries. Break the seal on that wine and pour us a cup.

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Originally Posted by trish

We are all gazing at shadows cast upon the cave wall. When Archimedes drew a circle upon the beach he gazed down upon a crude rut, the thickness of a stick and the irregularities of the sandy canvas. But he beheld the true form of a CIRCLE and reasoned with perfect certainty that its circumference was exactly proportional to its diameter. So too I am a dancing shadow. A crude exemplar. Yet I partake of the form WOMAN. Reason about WOMAN and you reason about me. Anyone who doubts it, partakes of the form ASSHOLE. (And I won’t take no shit about the distinction between a form and a metaphor :) )

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LOL!!

Trish just gave Kitty a lobotomy.

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Originally Posted by trish

That's sweet of you to say. So come and tell me Prospero, what is that Platonists have in common by virtue of which they are Platonists? And assholetalians, what have they in common by virtue of which they are assholes?

I tire of examinations and inquiries. Break the seal on that wine and pour us a cup.

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I look forward to the day.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

LOL!!

Trish just gave Kitty a lobotomy.

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Yeah sorth of lol

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Originally Posted by trish

We are all gazing at shadows cast upon the cave wall. When Archimedes drew a circle upon the beach he gazed down upon a crude rut, the thickness of a stick and the irregularities of the sandy canvas. But he beheld the true form of a CIRCLE and reasoned with perfect certainty that its circumference was exactly proportional to its diameter. So too I am a dancing shadow. A crude exemplar. Yet I partake of the form WOMAN. Reason about WOMAN and you reason about me. Anyone who doubts it, partakes of the form ASSHOLE. (And I won’t take no shit about the distinction between a form and a metaphor :) )

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Changing the subject completely but inspired by your dancing cave shadows.....have you seen Cave of Forgotten Dreams yet?