US Elections 2020

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Originally Posted by broncofan

Here are some of Warren's taxing and spending plans.

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Thanks. I think what the pragmatists are missing is that a big part of the reason we got Trump is that many voters were dissatisfied with the status quo, as represented by the centrist Democrat approach of the Clinton-Obama period. So going back to that previous status quo does not seem like a long-term solution, even if Biden was able to defeat Trump because voters are turned off by Trump's behaviour.

I also think it's a mistake to think of this about being about one bad guy who hijacked the Republican party, so if we get rid of him things will go back to normal. Trump was pushing on an open door in 2016 - he just capitalised on trends that were already well under way in the party and took them further. There will be others who saw what worked for Trump and appeal to the same themes. That's why I object to buttslinger's view, which seems to assume that Trump is an aberration and normal service can be resumed once Republicans wake up.

That's not to say there there would be no benefit in getting rid of Trump, because his malignant narcissism and erratic nature pose additional dangers.

It was the best of times,
It was the worst of times,
It was a time like any other time..
We know everything and we know nothing.
Filghy, I am always surprised when anybody takes my posts seriously, I just vent, get off on seeing my stuff in print, and irk Stavoses perfect universe.
What makes Trump different from Nixon is RUSSIA
I cannot believe the US Intelligence Community didn't come to a screeching halt in Helsinki or after Russians were laughing it up in the Oval Office one day after Comey was fired. Maybe it did. Maybe Trump's interpreter was thrown into the back of a black SUV and taken to a secure location where a guy in a dark suit found out everything that is going on and in the tradition of the CIA "knows all, tells nothing"
Ever since Hiroshima, the lights never go out in the Pentagon. We are the bad guys now, and that's the way we want to keep it. I want Fox News and Trump's base to wrap their legs around Trump's waist, and when he goes down, they go down. But I fear the powers that be see that as a weakening of the fragile yin yang balance that keeps millionaires around the World investing their cash right here in the USA. I think the wheels are finally coming off the Trump bus with Syria and Rudy and Impeachment, Trump's tweets say he is having sleepless nights. The Stooges he's surrounded himself with are figuring out they are stooges. Last week some Gypsies showed up at my front door, I swear. Things seem to be happening fast, any one with any sense saw this day coming three years ago, I only hope there are forces on high that can take this tragedy as a rare opportunity to get some shots in at the enemies of the United States who thought they were getting away with poking at the sleeping giant. Putin needs to get bitch slapped.

Buttslinger, Deep Throat is your Virgil in this journey through the underworld.
'Follow the Money'. Give it some thought. In the moribund 1980s investors were beginning to take advantage of the liberalization of capital control to re-structure business so that production could be moved offshore where unit costs were cheaper and profit margins higher. Throughout the decade, but notably when Gorbachev became General Secretary of the USSR, the prospects of the USSR being opened to foreign investment sent shivers down the spine: immense resources of oil and gas, and other minerals; a large undeveloped consumer market; agricultural resources; a well-educated work-force: and combine that with technological backwardness and you have the dream becoming reality: they need us, we need them. We have the capital and the technology, they have the resources and the manpower.

Why else has the current crop of US politicians become so mired in Russia and the Ukraine -with Azerbaijan and Kazakjstan side shows (but soaked in corruption on all sides, though it will always be a sideshow to Russia and Ukraine)- why not Bolivia or South Africa, or Equatorial Guine or the Philippines? There may be a link between all those Cold War agents and analysts and the view that, outside China, the glittering prizes were in Russia and the Ukraine.

Follow the money, even if you end up elbow deep in Giuliani's ass. Go deep, then deeper. But remember, it is all about the money, or as the man said 'tell Michael it was only business, I always liked him'.

I wrote an epic post, Stavros, but I deleted it, I gave away too much. The truth makes me look bad. I get that Trump gets off on duping the suckers. So do half the Trannys on this site. I think the World is about to say ENOUGH with Trump. Too many witnesses. Follow the Insanity and you go Insane.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I wrote an epic post, Stavros, but I deleted it, I gave away too much. The truth makes me look bad.

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Please. I remember some of the shit you've written here. You're not gonna surprise us:grin:

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I think the World is about to say ENOUGH with Trump. Too many witnesses. Follow the Insanity and you go Insane.

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How many times have you predicted Trump's imminent demise already?

Am I right in thinking Elizabeth Warren is now edging in front of the other candidates? I can only really go by the UK media reports from the US.

You're right, but two days behind https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/209052...omination-2020

They say confession is good for the soul, with Trump we'll never know because I've never heard him admit anything. If we want to subpoena Trump's soul, it's under audit by the Devil.
The Democratic polls mean nothing 13 months out.
Hey flighy, did I ever hurt your feelings or something? Are you going to whine everytime I open my mouth?

Politics and Religion
Two topics to avoid in light company, this board was especially created for you to "tote the party line" and voice your opinions, thoughts and beliefs on whatever tickles your fancy or currently gets your goat.

I forgot to add in my post #43 above that what attracted the Americans to Russia and the Ukraine was not just the assets and the money to be made, but that corruption at every level of the State meant that it was relatively easy for someone with working capital to access the system. It seems to me that Giuliani has found himself in the cross-hairs of investigation precisely because some of the people he was working with were on the wrong side of the law, but at a time when the law may no have had defined 'sides'. The days when Russia was an open field have gone, Putin has seen to that, but it seems those who dipped their toes in those swimming pools full of dollars may have wet feet for some time to come.

Whether or not this affects the President is anyone's guess, as David Miliband has argued, we live in an 'age of impunity' and the bastards are getting away with it. Moreover, note that the announcement that was made after a phone call with Erdogan, enabled P45 to deliver a huge gift to Vladimir Putin, on his birthday, 7 October...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBYgprGjOzA

Hey, when Tillerson was with Exxon, he and Putin came up with a plan to have Exxon drill oil wells in the Arctic where the ice had melted from global warming. They stood to rake in billions but Magnitsky squelched that. And yes, Hillary fucked with Putin's sham election when she headed the State Department. Then there was that whole Reagan SDI thing that murdered Mother Russia. It's no wonder Vladimir stays up nights plotting against us. He stole my Mom's tax refund one year. As his role model Stalin once said, One lunatic in the white House is a statistic, 38% of the USA losing their minds is a tragedy.
I hate repeating myself, but this whole thing is the plot from the DIE HARD movie where terrorists have the NYC police department chasing their own tails hunting for a terrorist, while in fact the bad guys are thieves looting the gold from the vaults. The whistle blower is Samuel L Jackson. Who knows how this bad movie is going to end but I must repeat myself one more time and say I think the worm has turned, I think Trump's impeachment poles are going to go up and up and up until the Republicans in the Senate fear losing their phony baloney jobs, gentlemen.
When I came on here, I thought it was one more site where dudes rip off content from chicks trying to grab money from dudes compromised by a moment of sexual suspension of reality. I asked the forum about street trannies carrying knives and got laughed at by a dozen merrymakers. In D. C. the transsexual prostitutes hung in a real bad neighborhood focused around a particular bar where they pat you down when you enter. It's history now, I'm sure. Thanks, Obama.
In the Bible they had eight lean years, eight fat years, and four years of floods, locusts, etc.
We have Bush, Obama, Trump. There is nothing new under the Sun, all of this will pass, that's the only thing I'm sure of.

Let me try and clean up one last mess, I meant Impeachment polls, not Impeachment poles, although in Trump's case an Impeachment pole might be extremely satisfying. I never fact check anything, I saw that Anderson Cooper interview on TV, occasionally a group of people on MSNBC or CNN will sum up the day perfectly, but they state it, then it's gone. I repeat Geraldo Rivera, if Nixon had Fox News, he never would have left office. But buttslinger says if Hitler had CNN, we would never have had the Holocaust.

Thank you Rachel Maddow.
Thank you Southern District of New York.

https://i.ibb.co/dQ0Lpjg/o.jpg

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Am I right in thinking Elizabeth Warren is now edging in front of the other candidates? I can only really go by the UK media reports from the US.

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Its starting to look that way. Biden is taking a hit from both the far left and the right about his son earning $50,000 a month and Sanders' recent heart attack is a concern for those who worry about his age. Although my advice to his opponents would be not to make comments about his age and health in the next debate. It may turn off older voters who know what its like to be discriminated against because of their age.

How about this.
Would everyone agree that Pence is not as dumb as he looks and was well aware of everything that has gone on under his nose?

re-elect NANCY PELOSI - 2020. Let it ride!!!

[QUOTE=buttslinger;1902979]
Hey, when Tillerson was with Exxon, he and Putin came up with a plan to have Exxon drill oil wells in the Arctic where the ice had melted from global warming. They stood to rake in billions but Magnitsky squelched that.
--Arctic oil and gas development has been taking place since the 1980s, the key to any future development is the increasing depletion of the sea ice that makes transport difficult to impossible, ditto seabed pipelines. And they are all at it -not just Exxon but Shell, BP, the Norwegians: whether or not the recoverable reserves are worth it is questionable, if the world begins to reduce its dependency on fossil fuels. Technical problems aside, the political question: who owns the stuff has yet to be resolved, not least because Russia has already claimed the North Pole is Russian territory.

Stalin once said, One lunatic in the white House is a statistic, 38% of the USA losing their minds is a tragedy.
-The death of an individual is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic, is what he allegedly said.

In the Bible they had eight lean years, eight fat years, and four years of floods, locusts, etc.
-Seven, not eight years.

We have Bush, Obama, Trump. There is nothing new under the Sun
-If you can't see the difference between Obama and the rest, you probably need spectacles. Almost three years of chaotic decision making based on the resentment of one man and his party, that a Black Man entered the White House as President, has brought your country little other than ridicule and fear. America, and the world, can do so much better.

As for Biden, I don't know what to say- I thought he might get the sympathy vote when there is no truth in the allegations of corruption in the Ukraine, but unless people accept the premise that Americans went there in search of a fortune, and often got one, then the question Why Ukraine? doesn't get the attention it deserves- the same people did not rush into the eastern part of re-unified Germany, because they had the laws Russian and the Ukraine did not. The irony of course, is that some capital can be earned by pointing out Hunter Biden was 'thrown out' of the Naval Reserve for 'cocaine abuse' (I thought it was supposed to be fun)- but when the man making it is a draft-dodger one marvels at the cheek, just as there has yet to be the same level of scrutiny of Junior and Skittles, not to mention the Crooked Kushners.

If this becomes the dirtiest election of recent times, and Elizabeth Warren is the nominee -how does she shape the debate according to her messages on policy and in terms of overall tone? My view is that Americans may want to hear a more warming, and soothing message rather than the relentless insults and abuse we have had from the Republicans: indeed, the 'potty mouth' strategy might work against the Republicans and in favour of the Democrats, but that does also assume the Democrats can agree on what their main policies are, and maybe Warren is dull enough to look good set against an increasingly mad and stupid man -who might not even be President this time next year. Warren -vs- Pence, now that sounds Dull, but am I right?

The Republicans and Democrats are here to stay, the secret sauce is always in the middle, do we shift a little to the right, or a little to the left. I was a schoolboy in the sixties, when long hair was treason to many, and LBJ did the right thing with segregation and that dramatic move flipped to entire south from Democratic to Republican. I honestly think that even today if the Democrats run on racism, they'll lose. Biden has the black vote, that's why he's a contender. He's got Soul. Nothing more needs to be said.
We're 13 months from the election, I was only half joking when I said Nancy Pelosi might be President. I honestly think if just one member of Robert Mueller breaks his oath and discloses what the best and brightest of US Intelligence found out about Trump in his younger impetuous days, say a year from now, we will have to stop the presses on any History books being printed, Trump Nation will have a heart attack.
They say Americans who favor impeachment are the ones who are interested in it, the ones who have studied it. The ones who are not in favor of impeachment are the ones who don't follow politics, or get their facts solely from conservative media. Both parties "impeached" Nixon, but it started as a Democratic Idea.
Impeaching Clinton started and ended as a Republican idea, and Pelosi wants the facts on TV to turn this into a bi-partisan effort. I wish her all the luck. It seems like having the truth on your side means nothing. If every politician were forced into wearing a lie detector around their neck, the new trick would be how to beat the lie detector.
As far as Pocahontas versus Pence- ZZZZZZZZZZ nobody would watch. Schoolteacher Warren V. Schoolyard bully Trump, that might be a show.
Rick went to Casablanca to die slowly from a broken heart, the rule was either lay off politics or get out. In the end he and Inspector Renault walked off into the fog, the birth of a beautiful friendship. That was a movie. Sometimes fiction can make people understand the truth better than newsprint.
My question to you, Stavros, is: who killed the Politics and Religion Section? You or me?

https://i.ibb.co/7jqmsnh/0.jpg

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

My question to you, Stavros, is: who killed the Politics and Religion Section? You or me?

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If there is a lack of vibrant debate in this section, it may be due to the absence of people who disagree with us. In the past there were people who were keen to oppose Obama, notably the one who relentlessly pointed his contempt at the level of government borrowing that he, along with Paul Ryan (remember him? Didn't think so) considered to be the litmus test of responsible government. That Obama's successor has been borrowing a trillion $ a year, that he has had to compensate farm failures due to his own inept tariffs on China costing $14 billion a year suggests he is significantly more reckless with your dollars than Obama, and may thus explain why he is no longer posting anything. Even those members of Hungangels who claim to admire their President either lack the courage to defend him in these boards, or are too embarrassed to admit to liking him. There is a similar lack of debate from UK members who for all I know think it is a good idea that the UK leave the EU, but they won't admit it here. Just as my attempt to generate sensible debate on Immigration died a death, even though at least two regular posters in other sections once mentioned it there.

But if the word 'kill' is your choice, ask yourself why your so-called President seems so determined to kill the Constitution and the rule of law. Is he not deliberately breaking the law to expose it as an 'ass'? He has even appointed an Attorney General whom he knows will never prosecute him no matter what he does -if anyone is good at 'kissing ass' in the US Government, it must be the Attorney General. For once the US has a President for whom the convention that a sitting President not be indicted, should be overturned- at the very moment the man to do it is a shit-eating tRumpMonkey who can see no evil, hear no evil, or speak no evil, even when it is dripping from his lips.

It's more Fargo than Casablanca: the men sent to kidnap the US and its Constitution so the President can extort money from the people, have begun to murder it, and demolish it, piece by piece. Perhaps the grim truth is that the people who can't be bothered to post a comment in this section, because they don't care, don't care if their country ends up in the toilet wiping the ass of a man who to me is a racist, a homophobe, a misogynist, a liar, a crook and a traitor. as David Miliband put it, we live in an 'age of impunity', and no well-intentioned pregnant officer can save it -unless, at this late stage, the people rally to save their Republic. In which case, Fargo needs a sequel, but who will direct it?

I think Trish had it right, we are in the Twilight Zone, baby, Most of the Republicans in Congress outside a handful that show up on Fox News every night despise Trump as much as anybody, but they are held hostage by the same morons that elected Trump and un-elected the EU over there. You trash our morons more than your own, I think maybe. Unlike the sci-fi CGI stuff we see today, the Twilight Zone always ended badly, as bad as it seemed during the show, the truth, the ending, was even more horrifyingly sober. The great truth is never clearly seen until it's too late.
I do care about Trump, a friend of my Mom's who worked in Naval Intelligence and I had a long discussion about how Trump is up to his neck with Putin, how this was going to end up in bloodshed, etc etc etc, while my poor Mom lay between us in her hospital bed saying nothing, in pain that we haven't seen yet. That's our true future.
My brother and his wife won't discuss it. Before I can finish the sentence that she should tune into Sean Hannity's show some night and see 60 minutes of the worst horror movie that's ever been made, she is shaking her head. no no no. To her credit, she refuses to get sucked in.
I have a friend whose Dad was John McCain's C.O. at Annapolis. He's never voted, and his sisters, some of them are Trumpers. I swear they see themselves as the true Americans. Debating it just leaves us both shaking our heads and pissed off. I am a druggie and you are a fag to them. Clear as day.
I am seriously considering taking the advice of the clowns that happily jerk off up in the porn section and wisely don't bring up guns or abortions at cock-tail parties. There's not a goddamn thing I can do about Trump, We, the People, spoke in 2016, and I honestly believe we the people will change their minds in 2020, (Independents) but like Casablanca, you never really know if Rick is going to get on the plane til the end. The problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.
It is quite possible people listen to you over there, and that's made you think that your opinion means something, I have no illusions that my little soapbox here is the only time my voice registers "in print"
To be or not to be, I gotta believe one of these Judges over here is going to give the House of Representatives Trump's tax records, and all that stuff Mueller found out about Putin's inner circle money laundering millions with Trump will finally have PROOF. Then you'll see all the dominoes fall. That's what I'm focused on. But yeah, as others have said right here, we'll still have millions of gullible souls looking for their sweet time on the sunny side of the street. Maybe Elizabeth Warren has the right plan. Educate every kid, one kid at a time, as best we can. Paying for a education of some Guatemalan's 5 kids in an American school costs taxpayers like 50 grand a year. At the end of this Twilight Zone episode we are still 22 trillion dollars in debt. When that bill comes due the Western World will be as fucked as the rest of the world. It's a bi-partisan can that we've been kicking down the road for way to long. If the Republican Party crashes and re-invents itself as the party that fixes the tax code, I might say fuck the rich and poor and save the middle class.
It is very possible that all my hatred for Trump is doing nothing but giving me an ulcer. Just like Putin planned it. Jesus.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

My question to you, Stavros, is: who killed the Politics and Religion Section? You or me?

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Why aren't more people flocking here to read your half-page diatribes? Beats me :-)

I think there's a bit of a catch 22 issue. For people who basically agree with your position there's not much that can be said that hasn't already been said many times before. Also, there are many other places on the internet where we can read about these issues. People who don't agree with you, on the other hand, are generally not people who like to engage in civil discussion.

So I think it's going to be you and Stavros walking off into the fog together. He's Felix and you're Oscar, so it must be an attraction of opposites. I'm sure the diatribes are good therapy for you anyway.

I assure you my diatribe is against Donald Trump and Donald Trump only. Every home in the United States should have an outdoor recess bell ringing in their living room constantly ever since Trump practically got down on his knees and blew Putin on the world stage at Helsinki. How could anyone not see that footage and not lose their mind? I'm pretty sure if I stopped holding back and said what I really felt two guys in suits would be knocking on my door like I'M the bad guy!!
My position hasn't changed one inch since Trump was elected. Either I'm insane or the world is insane. Possibly both. I bleed red white and blue. Stavros doesn't even like Elvis. Not Treason, but close. Stavros isn't Felix, Stavros is Stavros. I'm not Oscar, but I'm not Buttslinger, either.
I'm on my knees praying that Trump didn't just do what we were all afraid he was going to do in Syria. Everybody's just standing around. I'm sick of it.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I assure you my diatribe is against Donald Trump and Donald Trump only. Every home in the United States should have an outdoor recess bell ringing in their living room constantly ever since Trump practically got down on his knees and blew Putin on the world stage at Helsinki. How could anyone not see that footage and not lose their mind? I'm pretty sure if I stopped holding back and said what I really felt two guys in suits would be knocking on my door like I'M the bad guy!!
My position hasn't changed one inch since Trump was elected. Either I'm insane or the world is insane. Possibly both. I bleed red white and blue. Stavros doesn't even like Elvis. Not Treason, but close. Stavros isn't Felix, Stavros is Stavros. I'm not Oscar, but I'm not Buttslinger, either.
I'm on my knees praying that Trump didn't just do what we were all afraid he was going to do in Syria. Everybody's just standing around. I'm sick of it.

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It is the lack of reason that worries me in your posts -all this emotional stuff doesn't deal with voter suppression, the purging of voter rolls, law enforcement murdering innocent people in their own homes, the illusion of economic health, the crisis in education, the foreign policy of the US now privatized to become a family business with its own email servers, its own personnel and its complete indifference to the Constitution and the law. All these things can be dealt with rationally, and politically, just as in the UK we have created a political impasse due to the fact that much of what people want from Brexit cannot be delivered, or delivered in the manner that can make it work. People want instant solutions, they don't exist.

It will be hard work getting rid of the worst President since Andrew Jackson, because he has not only no respect for the law, but deliberately breaks it knowing his guy in the Department of Justice will let him do what he wants. This is the opposite of the politics the Founding Fathers wanted when they created the United States, it is up to you do either protect your Constitution or throw it away and in effect, cancel Appomattox and hand victory to the Confederates, dividing the US for the next 50-100 years, just as the UK must 'go it alone' in the same period, but without the same degree of resources.

As for Elvis, it is simple: I was raised on JS Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, but in my teens via Eric Clapton and John Mayall developed a love of Robert Johnson and Blind Lemon Jefferson. The appropriation of Black American music by a slob who could not sing has been one of the crimes against culture White America has committed. It was not the first or the last, but every time that ridiculous cretin tries to sing we are violated, polluted, and it is all on record for posterity, we can't purge it from the history of music. Why would anyone want to listen to his squealing whine when you can spend a moment with Robert Johnson and the magic of individual creativity? There is so much that the US has produced that exists to be enjoyed and admired. It is when you set real jewels of America against its worst excesses that you wonder how this other man managed to pull of the heist of the century (so far) to rob Americans of the dollars in their pockets, and the dignity that the Presidency once had. He is turning the USA into a shithole, not the Twilight Zone.

There you go again,
You see, when you call the USA a shithole, I have to remind you the your wonderful country wouldn't exist if it weren't for us, Heil Hitler.
Maybe economically you'd be better off as part of the Third Reich, at least you wouldn't have a joke King and Queen.
And every once in a while you mention young boys. Yikes!! Please, Enlighten us all about that, Please.
As for Elvis, you don't seem to realize when your leg is being pulled. Until he died, I laughed at Elvis. But he was the Beatles before the Beatles.
I assure you John Lennon and Eric Clapton listened to Elvis and Scotty Moore as much as Robert Johnson.
God forbid I get personal, but have you ever had any friends?
Severe Clinical Depression is the SECOND worse thing about me, but I've been fortunate enough to have lots of good friends, I don't think one of them were raised on J S Bach. If I ever had a friend as pompous as you I'd cut him down to size faster than you can deep fry a Krispy Kreme Donut.
If you want to call me an asshole, bring it. But don't get any mud on your suit. You might tarnish your reputation as the most overqualified English Gentleman whoever daily looked down his nose at a bunch of jerkoffs at a goddam PORN SITE!!!
Lighten up, Francis.:dancing::dancing::dancing:

Can you read? No mention of young boys, no knowledge of the history of the UK on your part -or the US- least of all in the Second World War, so no need for a silly reference to the Third Reich. I am a cultural snob, that should be obvious, but that is hardly an issue worth debating. As for the shithole, who was first to describe states in that way, as he presided over the wholesale dismissal in some states of the very basis on which the US was formed? Up to you if my comment was satire, or description.

It all depends on how much you want the US remade in the image of Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee, how much you want the Presidency replaced by an ATM for the incumbent, unaccountable to anyone, including you. You have to decide if the 45th President is a blip on the screen or the warning of a radical change to your political arrangements, just as I and others in the UK have to decide if Brexit is going to damage the UK for the next 10-15 years, at least, or mark an opportunity for greater prosperity. We still don't know what Brexit will mean, least of the all any deal Boris Johnson offers Parliament to conclude this phase of the process, but Rafael Behr offers a sober analysis that points out what the future might look like. When you can offer an analysis of the US that has a similar depth of knowledge you might write a post worth reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ion-eu-britain

I heard there was news about Brexit today, but I heard it on Fox News, they seemed to think it was great news.
It seems to me that your overly dramatic portrayal of me deciding how I have to decide on the Future of the USA is as stupid as my nonsense. I didn't vote for the prick, unless I send all my money to the DNC, that's as far as the Constitution allows me to protest. What do you expect me to do, make a sign and go stand outside the White House? Should I scream at a history book? The answer is if you venture into the World expect to get punched in some dark alley. I guarantee you Trump is not the end of the World. If he launches ICBMs at Iran, then I'm wrong. Oh well,,,
As far as I can see the Democrats kowtow to whoever didn't watch "The Apprentice" and the Republicans bend over backward to please the morons who watched that TV SHOW! Our leaders follow us. And all of our faults. For votes. It used to be we were all Americans and leaned toward social conscience or fiscal responsibility. Now it's about a guy in Pakistan this morning, working in a 7-11 tonight.
All we know is the tip of the iceberg, the weight of the unseen gravity is speculation. Some know more than others. Our leaders hide how fucked up things are. On both sides of the aisle, here, there, Russia, China, We're ALL on the Titanic. There's a sucker born every minute and there's a guy who feels it's his duty to separate that sucker from his cash.
Debate She-bait, everybody does what they can, nobody knows what others are up against. The larger picture always exists, there's a day on the calendar when we're gonna die, and on that day it's going to be today, if you want to spend your life focused on politics, good, if you want to bash my country, TODAY, good. Fuck You. You're Greek anyway, right?
Not only is the earth falling under your feet, this forum has dissolved into what it was created to be. A place where guys go to hopefully drop a few bucks into Grooby's pocket. He seems like a good guy, I had lots of fun here. But this forum has seen better times. It's nobody's fault, that's just the way it is. Nothing good lasts forever. I'm pretty sure all Trump means is that the rose colored glasses have come off and 2020 vision is a bit ugly. A bit TOO real. Never in my life would I have believed the citizens of the United States would put a grifter like Trump and all the little Trumps in the White House. But the people spoke. I fight Authority, Authority always wins. Still, we fight.
I commend you for everything you've done for this forum, Stavros, I'm sure you're as right as you can be, but to be honest, I glide over or ignore some of your longer posts. I don't live here, I've never sucked a cock in my life. Everything Counts. Even illiterate hillbillies get to vote and deserve their day in the sun. Lots of those hicks died on Omaha Beach, no Kurds, No way.

Let me sum it up as clearly as I can. I've got one foot out the door. Even at my best, I was typing with one hand and jerking off with the other. I don't even recognize the names of 98% of the posters upstairs. You're giving thoughtful probing debate to a podium with nobody there. Who's the idiot?
Gotta Go. There's a real debate on TV. I wish everyone the best and hope Trump finds God in prison. If it's a fake god, c'est la vie.

Set to one side the scary possibility Hillary might run again...and consider this curious story from 'way back when' regarding Joe Biden...time for a change, America. Make it happen.

https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/...ts/1953590001/

A trenchant view of the perennial stumbling block of domestic policy in the US: health care, and why on this issue Warren could lead the party to failure if she becomes the nominee. Tough but maybe true?

The real issues, surely are the impending collapse of the banking system -again!- and the absolute corruption of American government where, for example, Mitchell McConnnell declares without any evidence being presented to the Senate that there will be no impeachment; and Lindsay Graham says he will not even read the transcripts of the evidence from House Committees proving there was a quid pro quo, with Rudolph Giuliani Jr appearing to be the self-appointed (?) Secretary of State in charge of gathering evidence to attack the USA and American citizens. If this cannot be stopped, then why bother having an election in 2020? Just anoint the man with holy water and dance naked around a bonfire.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a9186496.html

I understand the article but I wonder if we can afford to not be ambitious. Our healthcare system, even with some important and useful changes enacted under the Affordable Care Act, is still one of the least efficient in the developed world. Expenses per patient are extremely high and rates of medical bankruptcies are high as well. Our system is a hodgepodge of about a half dozen to a dozen relevant laws, adding up to not much. Without getting into detail they're hard to augment without doing something more radical.

In addition, I like the idea of a wealth tax that both Sanders and Warren are proposing but I am not sure about how it is administered.

Are super wealthy people getting appraisals of their assets every year and having to raise tax revenue through sales? With our income tax, we've always operated based on the realization principle, which is that you only have a gain when you sell an asset and can therefore pay taxes. Does a wealth tax create liquidity issues for people who have a lot of assets but not much income in a year?

I've always thought the idea of breaking up big banks was not smart, but there's a lot I don't know about banking regulation. Yes a conglomerate can threaten the strength of the economy by taking on a lot of risk (insufficient reserves, poor investment quality and unsafe loans), but lots of small banks might not meet the credit needs of businesses and homeowners. I am not sure that the lesson of the 2008 crisis is that big banks should not exist but that they should be regulated better and there should be more accountability. I've said this elsewhere but still feel that way.

I do think healthcare has to be a priority and something radical should be done. That means we need a lot more tax revenue....

One of the most significant policy shifts we've seen from candidates this term is the proposal of a wealth tax. Both Warren and Sander propose wealth taxes that hit people with very high net worth. For Warren it kicks in for people worth more than 50 million dollars. It would tax 2% for those worth between 50 million and 1 billion dollars and 3% above that.

The question I asked above was how people's assets are valued. Obviously it would be cumbersome to have annual appraisals and particular tough to come up with a good value for many privately held businesses. The article I linked recommends as a solution assuming growth rates for particular asset classes and then settling the difference upon sale. I still am not sure if that's what Warren proposes.

There is also the issue of whether it is Constitutional. I genuinely don't know the answer and will not even waste room speculating, but it is a significant enough concern that it will likely be challenged by Republicans. You can read about the clause under consideration in the business insider article.

I like the idea of a wealth tax for a couple of reasons. I think people with high net worth should pay more. I also think sophisticated planning means people find a way to hold assets until death and never realize a taxable gain. There is an estate tax, but unsold assets get something called a step up in basis. So, if your grandmother bought a house for 5 hundred thousand dollars and leaves it to you in her will when it's worth 5 million dollars, you don't pay taxes on that difference. You only pay taxes for the amount above 5 million when you sell it. A lot of wealth management takes this into account. For people with hundreds of millions of dollars who would be subject to the wealth tax holding assets to avoid realizing a gain helps them escape a lot of tax that they transmit to the next generation. A wealth tax extracts some of that value.

https://itep.org/a-wealth-tax-might-be-easier-to-implement-than-you-think/

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealth-tax-definition-explained-elizabeth-warren-2019-7

Good arguments on tax from Robert Reich here-

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...os-dimon-cohen

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Good arguments on tax from Robert Reich here-

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...os-dimon-cohen

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There are some good suggestions here for ways to bring in a lot of tax revenue without a wealth tax. He mentions the fact that in our current code capital gains are eliminated at death...I think every tax plan should at least be getting rid of this.

Even though Pete Buttigieg is leading in both Iowa and New Hampshire, he is polling 0% with black voters in South Carolina. There seems to be this ongoing narrative that he is having a problem with making headway with them in general. Eventually the elephant in the room has to be addressed that maybe homophobia is playing a part in some black voters' feelings toward Buttigieg.

I did not realize until reading this critique that Elizabeth Warren, like Hillary Clinton, started her political life as a Republican.
Time to re-think this candidate?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ot-progressive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

I did not realize until reading this critique that Elizabeth Warren, like Hillary Clinton, started her political life as a Republican.
Time to re-think this candidate?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ot-progressive

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Would that mean Bernie Sanders is the only person committed to single payer healthcare? I haven't been following closely but I might end up supporting him. I hate to be a single issue voter but I don't understand how we can commit ourselves to a healthcare system that's so ineffective and causes suffering and bankruptcy. One enormous source of inequality in this country is that people are put into financial distress and die young because of our broken system.

I wouldn't mind if she started off as a Republican and has a change of heart to support left-wing policies. But the change of heart has to be real...

I'll be honest, I'm fucking clueless, when it comes to American politics. Federal, state, party, president. If I was voting for an MP, I would hope that I was in Bernie Sanders constituency.
But, I'm hearing a lot about Andrew Yang, what's his deal?
There should be an Idiots Guide!

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Originally Posted by broncofan

Would that mean Bernie Sanders is the only person committed to single payer healthcare? I haven't been following closely but I might end up supporting him. I hate to be a single issue voter but I don't understand how we can commit ourselves to a healthcare system that's so ineffective and causes suffering and bankruptcy. One enormous source of inequality in this country is that people are put into financial distress and die young because of our broken system.

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Bernie Sanders wants the Democrat nomination but sits as an Independent in Congress, one of those peculiarities of the US system that doesn't make sense.
I don't think you will have a single payer health care system for the foreseeable future. Health care in the US is a commercial enterprise, not a public service, and the companies making all the money are far more powerful than were the Medical Associations and the Charities that were responsible for health care in the UK before 1948. Crucially, the weak element in this is the extent to which States Rights will prevent the creation of a single payer Federal Health Care system, had Obama been able to do it, I think it would have emerged by now. The USA is not united anymore, the re-emergence of the Confederacy that in reality never went away, means that not only do Republicans gerrymander districts to prevent the election, even the voting of Democrats, they have sewn up most of the District Courts with Federalist Society acolytes who will reject single payer health care when it is challenged in the Courts.
Real change in the US these days means that Federal law can be re-interpreted locally and in effect be detached from daily life, as has happened with the re-definition of term limits for abortions, and the purge of voter rolls. Add in the simple fact that the Presidency ignores Congress, and even repudiates its right to be involved in decisions that Constitutionally are within its right to decide, and you have what in effect is a Monarchy, or at best a Duarchy if as may emerge, the Supreme Court has only one function, to endorse the decisions of the President. The manner in which the President has made decisions with regard to individual members of the armed forces that directly undermine the legally and morally established processes developed by the military for years is an example of the King's authority: the SEALS can shove their 'Code of Honour' where it hurts, the President/King will make the decisions from now on. He is not Commander-in-Chief for nothing, he is Master and Commander, and must be obeyed.

Either you are witnessing the break up of the Federal Union and the demolition of the three branches of government, or this is a temporary blip and 'normal service will be resumed' in 2020. Or will it?
It seems a lot of Americans rather like the idea of a King who poses in silk panties while wearing boxing gloves, who swears in public and abuses and insults as many Americans -oops, I'm sorry, Human Scum- as he can and as often as he can.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

I'll be honest, I'm fucking clueless, when it comes to American politics. Federal, state, party, president. If I was voting for an MP, I would hope that I was in Bernie Sanders constituency.
But, I'm hearing a lot about Andrew Yang, what's his deal?
There should be an Idiots Guide!

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When I first started watching PM questions in 2014, it was like I was a child trying to listen to the cadence and tone to determine who was winning. Whoever's MPs laughed more at their jokes was the winner in my eyes. I read a few articles about the British Parliamentary system and am sure I understood it, but it was gone from my mind within two weeks. That's how it is unless you have people you're constantly talking about it with.

All of the elections that you would hear about in international media for us are federal. State and local governments have a lot of effect over our lives but there's not as much engagement with those elections. One thing I can say is that the results of our congressional elections (senate and house) don't determine who wins the Presidency. So someone can vote for a Republican for Congress and also cast a ballot for a Democrat for President.

I've heard good things about Andrew Yang and he seems like a genuinely nice guy. He's only polling at 3% which is why I don't know very much about him. Probably the best way to see who is offering what is their websites, though I'm too lazy to read them all. You could follow them on twitter, along with a few of each of their supporters and get some info (which is what I do for Kamala Harris and Warren).

Stavros, I tend to agree with you. I've agreed about Bernie, but I want to support a candidate who is going to try to deliver more comprehensive health care. At this point, I would say I'm not sure who I support among Democrats.

Ok, so am I right in thinking you could have a democrat house and senate, but a republican President (in theory)?
And what about the law, which takes precedent, federal or state?
I'm thinking Federal, it being across all states, but, can state law overturn federal law (stavs post about abortion got me thinking about this)?

Federal law takes precedence over state law where they both overlap. In order to pass laws, our legislature (the senate and the house of representatives-collectively called Congress) must act pursuant to a grant of power in our federal constitution. These grants of power are stated broadly and when controversial laws are passed they are often challenged as to whether they fit within that grant of power.

States pass laws on issues that relate to the health, welfare, and safety of those in each state. This includes employment regulations, ordinances, and many criminal laws. When a federal law is passed pursuant to a constitutional grant of power and it conflicts with the state law it is said to pre-empt the state law.

There are areas that states have exclusive authority to legislate in. Many crimes that take place entirely within a state and have nothing to do with commercial activity will be matters of state law. Statutes regulating abortion tend to be state law measures. These have generally not been trumped by federal law but ruled to violate a fundamental liberty interest of women and therefore violate our federal constitution (even state laws need to comply with it).

Often it's the case that our Congress and our Presidency is controlled by different parties. I'll give an example using our senate which has 100 senators. Let's say 55 were Republicans and 45 were Democrats, but the President is a Democrat. If the Republican senate passed a law giving tax breaks to the rich by a majority (55-45), it only becomes law if the President signs it into law. The President can veto it, in which case it can only become law if it gets 67 votes (or 2/3). This would require 12 Democrats to vote for it or they have to re-write the bill and try again. All legislation in our system needs to pass by majority vote in both houses of Congress and be signed into law by the President or override a Presidential veto by 2/3 vote.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

can state law overturn federal law (stavs post about abortion got me thinking about this)?

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I also used the language in my previous post about states having exclusive jurisdiction to pass laws in certain areas. This doesn't mean that state law trumps federal law, just that Congress has not been given a grant of power to pass laws in that area. If they tried to pass a law in that area, it would be struck down, not because the state law trumps it but because they acted outside of their grant of power.