17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[Ben]

Trayvon Martin Smear Campaign Extends to Hoodie Wearing Congressman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLSbkeiYCE&list=UU-3jIAlnQmbbVMV6gR7K8aQ&index=2&feature=plcp)

[Ben]

Libertarian: Personal Liberty! Unless You're a Black Kid Wearing a Hoodie - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_79mkuVGos&list=UU-3jIAlnQmbbVMV6gR7K8aQ&index=1&feature=plcp)

[Solitary Brother]

I don't know what happened.
From the sounds of it the Police don't know either.
How this guy Zimmerman is free is beyond me.
Butfor Al Sharpton to be doing what he is doing and SPike
Lee to is fucking crazy.
This reaction to this particular incident is troubling because MAN
Black men are killed on a daily basis and I never hear the amount of concernor outrage about it.
The media is being very irresponsible in the way they are handling this also.
I am sure the Justice department and the FBI will get to the bottom of this.
Until then I would not draw any conclusions.
I know I will be blasted over my response as usual but I call them
Like I see them.

[brickcitybrother]

When I read all of this my question was how can a security guard have so much juice that he can be involved in a shooting and not be arrested?


Zimmerman's father was a judge.

Nuff Said

[buttslinger]

It's amazing this case gets more muddled the more facts come out.

In the 1950s, you had White and Colored.
Very few Others.

Then lumped together you had drug users, career criminals, fags, and other Shadow people.

Transsexuals were with carnival side shows.

See how far we've come?

[Solitary Brother]

I have to change my position about this matter after having paid some attention to it.
I guess they have a tape of Zimmerman calling the cops and calling this young man a "fucking coon"?
Who does that?
I heard the audio today but it was very distorted.
If that's true it changes everything.
Another very disturbing thought is Mr Zimmerman must have used that terminology with the 911 operator before which is even more disturbing because that suggest the operators would be comfortable hearing such language.
All of the times this jackass called 911 all those tapes will be used as evidence against him.
His story is full of fucking holes and now I see why black people are so outraged.
This Zimmerman his life is over.
Even if he gets off he will have to move to some remote area of the planet.
This is just sad that the young boy had to die over nothing.

[Solitary Brother]

This is very sad but im sure there is more too the story be prob was gonna rob someone..

R u serious?
You can't be serious?

[buttslinger]

Uh-Oh

Looks like Zimmerman may have been fibbing a little bit, experts say. Those screams people heard weren't his. Hm.........I hope this doesn't hurt Rush Limbo's feelings.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

[Instrumental]

Love this article
http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me

[Stavros]

From what I have read about this case I know the following:

Zimmerman was a neighbourhood watch captain...no, he was a volunteer
Zimmerman is a racist...Zimmerman is not a racist
Zimmerman was in his vehicle...Zimmerman was not in his vehicle
Zimmerman stalked Martin...Martin stalked Zimmerman
Zimmerman attacked Martin...Martin attacked Zimmerman
Zimmerman shouted help...Martin shouted help
There was a shot...there were two shots
Zimmerman was injured...Zimmerman was not injured
Martin was a hood...Martin wore a hood

Martin was shot dead...
Zimmerman was not arrested

When will undiluted facts be presented before the public?

[onmyknees]

From what I have read about this case I know the following:

Zimmerman was a neighbourhood watch captain...no, he was a volunteer
Zimmerman is a racist...Zimmerman is not a racist
Zimmerman was in his vehicle...Zimmerman was not in his vehicle
Zimmerman stalked Martin...Martin stalked Zimmerman
Zimmerman attacked Martin...Martin attacked Zimmerman
Zimmerman shouted help...Martin shouted help
There was a shot...there were two shots
Zimmerman was injured...Zimmerman was not injured
Martin was a hood...Martin wore a hood

Martin was shot dead...
Zimmerman was not arrested

When will undiluted facts be presented before the public?

Not sure....but the longer it goes on the more divisive it becomes, and the more conflicting information surfaces. We now have dudes quoting MSNBC network....as if that's a legitimate, un bias source of news. One of the "anchors" is leading the rally, then an hour later reporting on himself. lmao
Racial conflict is good for bussiness.

I do have compassion for the family....they seem like decent folks, but they're getting pulled and pushed in every direction by people that will abandon them an hour after the verdict. 35 days must seem like eternity for them. I can certainly understand thier anxiety....I can't understand everyone elses...

[natina]

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say




The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

[natina]

New Evidence Contradicts Zimmerman’s Claim of a Violent Fight With Trayvon Martin


While George Zimmerman still has not been charged in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, his public defense — as espoused by his lawyer and family members — rests on the fact that Zimmerman was involved in a physical altercation with Martin. New evidence, however, contradicts that version of events. First there was the security camera footage from the night Zimmerman claims Martin beat him senselessly: to most who watched the video, Zimmerman appeared unscathed.

Now Richard Kurtz, the Miami funeral director who examined Trayvon Martin's body, says the body "showed no signs of a violent brawl."


We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight. The hands — I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.

In the strongest statement issued, Kurtz says Trayvon Martin "looked perfectly normal to me when he came in and the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight in anything that we could see." CBS has video of the interview with Kurtz.

Furthermore, EMS documents obtained by the New York Daily News Friday indicate that a second ambulance was canceled. It had been called for the "second victim" who was "not a gunshot." Whatever injuries Zimmerman did sustain in the apparent fight must not have been sufficient to merit emergency medical response



http://gawker.com/5898036/new-evidence-contradicts-zimmermans-claim-of-a-violent-fight-with-trayvon-martin

[natina]

The evidence that is now available seems

to contradict almost everything Zimmerman has asserted as his defense.

-The absence of visible injuries he supposedly received.
-The problematic description of the physical encounter.
-The lack of blood on his clothing.
-The eyewitness descriptions that contradict his description.

This incident has further polarized but highlighted the differences in how the poor and people of color are treated when it relates to equal application of the law.

Prediction: Zimmerman will be charged and convicted.

[onmyknees]

Oh shit...here goes the bandwith. Natina's on the case now.

[natina]

Hispanic are of mixed race.
black,Spanish,English



mestizo


see dr gates documentary

Professor Gates explores how race has been socially constructed

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=56458


Hispanic is white. "Eurotrash" haha -fuck off. As I said at the start of this thread, news is international, not exclusive.

[natina]

black man finds out he is not african;no african DNA
The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey

Spencer Wells (born April 6, 1969 in Georgia, United States) is a geneticist and anthropologist, an Explorer-in-Residence at the National Geographic Society, and Frank H.T. Rhodes Class of '56 Professor at Cornell University. He leads The Genographic Project.

Wells also wrote and presented the PBS/National Geographic documentary of the same name. By analyzing DNA from people in all regions of the world, Wells has concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa around 60,000 - 90,000 years ago, a man also known as Y-chromosomal Adam.[3]


The Eyes of Nye - Race (Part 1 of 3) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EyeNi6qsfs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[natina]

CAUTION 911 call Trayvon Martin yelling for help gunshot heard in background - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urq1eAxdRE8&feature=related)

[natina]

Think of the Whitest person you know: someone with blond hair, blue eyes and almost translucent skin, not a drop of Black ancestry in them. Now think of the darkest person you know: someone richly endowed with traditional African features, not even a drop of White ancestry in their past. Well, guess what? Scientists now trace the origins of both of these people-and of all human beings who have ever walked the face of the earth-to Black Africa, to the region around what is now Ethiopia. As Spencer Wells, the director of National Geographic's massive Genographic Project, puts it: "Our species evolved in Africa, and a subset of Africans left that continent around 50,000 years ago to populate the rest of the world. Our earliest ancestors probably looked very much like modern Africans."

Henry Louis “Skip” Gates, Jr., (born September 16, 1950) is an American literary critic, educator, scholar, writer, editor, and public intellectual. He was the first African American to receive the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation Fellowship. He has received numerous honorary degrees and awards for his teaching, research, and development of academic institutions to study black culture. In 2002, Gates was selected to give the Jefferson Lecture, in recognition of his "distinguished intellectual achievement in the humanities."
As the host of the 2006 and 2008 PBS television miniseries African American Lives, Gates explored the genealogy of prominent African Americans. Gates sits on the boards of many notable arts, cultural, and research institutions. He serves as the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor at Harvard University, where he is director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research.

http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/tests.aspx)

http://www.africandna.com/ (http://www.africandna.com/)

http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)
http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx (http://www.africandna.com/history.aspx)


White skin appeared just 20,000 to 50,000 years

White skin appeared just 20,000 to 50,000 years ago, as dark-skinned humans migrated to colder climes and lost much of their melanin pigment.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/20-things-skin (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/20-things-skin)


see there is no biological basis for the idea of a white or black or asian


Race is an old concept that should be discarded. It was

created by people who had a very limited knowledge of their world. If you

look at any genetic map (mitochondrial or Y chromosome DNA), you can

see there is no biological basis for the idea of a white or black or asian

race.

Here's a map

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/)

Hispanic is white. "Eurotrash" haha -fuck off. As I said at the start of this thread, news is international, not exclusive.

[natina]

Witness To Trayvon Shooting Speaks Out! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDal8Qqaw&feature=related)

[AmyDaly]

If you read the initial police statements, it is documented that Zimmerman said on the scene he was yelling for help. Do you really think in the heat of the moment and being talked to by police that he would think ahead of the future and say that he was yelling for help knowing that the yells for help would be analyzed over and over? Have some common sense.

[natina]

911 tapes released in death of black teen - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-DzXVKgKA&feature=related)

[natina]

he made a defense without thinking it out
thats how stupid criminals are caught and suckers overlook the evidence



If you read the initial police statements, it is documented that Zimmerman said on the scene he was yelling for help. Do you really think in the heat of the moment and being talked to by police that he would think ahead of the future and say that he was yelling for help knowing that the yells for help would be analyzed over and over? Have some common sense.

[natina]

The Eyes of Nye - Race (Part 3 of 3) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCDcl9s9Vh4&feature=channel)

Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey (Part 1 of 13) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV6A8oGtPc4&feature=related)




black man finds out he is not african;no african DNA
The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey

Spencer Wells (born April 6, 1969 in Georgia, United States) is a geneticist and anthropologist, an Explorer-in-Residence at the National Geographic Society, and Frank H.T. Rhodes Class of '56 Professor at Cornell University. He leads The Genographic Project.

Wells also wrote and presented the PBS/National Geographic documentary of the same name. By analyzing DNA from people in all regions of the world, Wells has concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa around 60,000 - 90,000 years ago, a man also known as Y-chromosomal Adam.[3]


The Eyes of Nye - Race (Part 1 of 3) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EyeNi6qsfs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[giovanni_hotel]

If you read the initial police statements, it is documented that Zimmerman said on the scene he was yelling for help. Do you really think in the heat of the moment and being talked to by police that he would think ahead of the future and say that he was yelling for help knowing that the yells for help would be analyzed over and over? Have some common sense.


When the Sanford PC was interviewed about the screams on the 911 calls, HE said they were from Zimmerman.

We have no idea if Zimmerman told them on the scene that he was the one screaming for help. Actually at the time I doubt that convo took place.

The detective who interviewed Zimmerman at the scene wanted to arrest him because he said he thought he was lying and his story didn't make sense. The Florida state prosecutor is the one who made the decision after the fact that Sanford police should NOT ARREST Zimmerman and let him go.

(Kinda convenient how that works when your father is a retired judge.)

Why are people SO INVESTED in defending this scumbag??
He racially profiled an innocent kid walking home, followed him for several blocks then got out of his SUV with a loaded sidearm to confront him and SHOT TRAYVON DEAD.

THere is no 'other side' to this story. Zimmerman's life was not in any danger. Trayvon was not trying to kill him.

Zimmerman wasn't thinking about anything that night except going back home after he murdered Trayvon and praying that the cops believed all the bullshit he was shoveling.

Zimmerman lied that he was the one screaming on those 911 calls because at the time he had no clue there were people listening to him about to execute Trayvon who were also calling police.

His dumbass fucked up.

Zimmerman has told so many lies, why is he even credible??
Remember Zimmerman first told authorities that Trayvon dragged him out of his SUV??smdh

[Merkurie]

Are we supposed to believe Zimmerman was screaming for help right up to the instant the shot was fired?

Trayvon Martin 911 Tape Screaming "Help" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4RHJ0taoc)

[buds]

If you read the initial police statements, it is documented that Zimmerman said on the scene he was yelling for help. Do you really think in the heat of the moment and being talked to by police that he would think ahead of the future and say that he was yelling for help knowing that the yells for help would be analyzed over and over? Have some common sense.


when the father was interviewed he even said it wasn't his son....

[natina]

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say




The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say


New Evidence Contradicts Zimmerman’s Claim of a Violent Fight With Trayvon Martin


While George Zimmerman still has not been charged in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, his public defense — as espoused by his lawyer and family members — rests on the fact that Zimmerman was involved in a physical altercation with Martin. New evidence, however, contradicts that version of events. First there was the security camera footage from the night Zimmerman claims Martin beat him senselessly: to most who watched the video, Zimmerman appeared unscathed.

Now Richard Kurtz, the Miami funeral director who examined Trayvon Martin's body, says the body "showed no signs of a violent brawl."


We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight. The hands — I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.

In the strongest statement issued, Kurtz says Trayvon Martin "looked perfectly normal to me when he came in and the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight in anything that we could see." CBS has video of the interview with Kurtz.

Furthermore, EMS documents obtained by the New York Daily News Friday indicate that a second ambulance was canceled. It had been called for the "second victim" who was "not a gunshot." Whatever injuries Zimmerman did sustain in the apparent fight must not have been sufficient to merit emergency medical response
http://gawker.com/5898036/new-evidence-contradicts-zimmermans-claim-of-a-violent-fight-with-trayvon-martin


Witness To Trayvon Shooting Speaks Out! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDal8Qqaw&feature=related)


Are we supposed to believe Zimmerman was screaming for help right up to the instant the shot was fired?




Trayvon Martin 911 Tape Screaming "Help" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4RHJ0taoc)

[buds]

Are we to believe these new experts who came up with a 48% certianty in their own words?

You guys do know there are experts who have seen Bigfoot and ghosts.........

problem with this world is the monday morning quarterbacks who would rather jump on a cause BEFORE the facts come out. This is nothing but a distraction to how big of a mess our country is in. Not to mention our leader who decided to make a lame statement to further fuel the fire.

[natina]

two (2) experts reviewed the 911 tapes which is evidence and concluded its not zimmerman screaming for help!

[buds]

two (2) experts reviewed the 911 tapes which is evidence and concluded its not zimmerman screaming for help!



Well i hope if this ever goes to trial those 2 experts can say with 100% certainty that it wasn’t Zimmerman.

I don’t know who is right or wrong but I do know most experts that are brought in on high profile cases usually go with the side who brought them in................. But hey, after the trial maybe those 2 and and the bigfoot experts can bring me bigfoot!

[giovanni_hotel]

Are we to believe these new experts who came up with a 48% certianty in their own words?

You guys do know there are experts who have seen Bigfoot and ghosts.........

problem with this world is the monday morning quarterbacks who would rather jump on a cause BEFORE the facts come out. This is nothing but a distraction to how big of a mess our country is in. Not to mention our leader who decided to make a lame statement to further fuel the fire.

48% match in voice recognition means that two voice recordings have similarities. but it's not enough of a direct correlation to be the same voice.

Two random men speaking for instance have about 35-55% match ratio.

That's why the voice recognition expert said for Zimmerman's voice to match the voice on the 911 calls, the match ratio would have to be at 90% or above.

So if the voice on the 911 calls wasn't Zimmerman........:loser:

Keep defending this turdball.

[natina]

it was 99% certainty & you can never have a 100% certainty .

conclusion is that zimmerman is lying


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say



http://gawker.com/5898036/new-evidence-contradicts-zimmermans-claim-of-a-violent-fight-with-trayvon-martin



Witness To Trayvon Shooting Speaks Out! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDal8Qqaw&feature=related)







Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Screams not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say










The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say


New Evidence Contradicts Zimmerman’s Claim of a Violent Fight With Trayvon Martin


While George Zimmerman still has not been charged in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, his public defense — as espoused by his lawyer and family members — rests on the fact that Zimmerman was involved in a physical altercation with Martin. New evidence, however, contradicts that version of events. First there was the security camera footage from the night Zimmerman claims Martin beat him senselessly: to most who watched the video, Zimmerman appeared unscathed.

Now Richard Kurtz, the Miami funeral director who examined Trayvon Martin's body, says the body "showed no signs of a violent brawl."


We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight. The hands — I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there.

In the strongest statement issued, Kurtz says Trayvon Martin "looked perfectly normal to me when he came in and the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight in anything that we could see." CBS has video of the interview with Kurtz.

Furthermore, EMS documents obtained by the New York Daily News Friday indicate that a second ambulance was canceled. It had been called for the "second victim" who was "not a gunshot." Whatever injuries Zimmerman did sustain in the apparent fight must not have been sufficient to merit emergency medical response
http://gawker.com/5898036/new-evidence-contradicts-zimmermans-claim-of-a-violent-fight-with-trayvon-martin


Witness To Trayvon Shooting Speaks Out! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDal8Qqaw&feature=related)

[buds]

I think its funny how retard the world is. I said i don't know if he did it or not and I can wait for the system to come to a conclusion.

What i find the funniest is all of the people who have a opinion based solely on what is thrown out on the news. (you know the people who report whatever they need to boost their ratings)


Here are some of the things that piss me off with this whole deal:

1) Picture of the victim when he was 14 (not like the ones he posted on his FB page you know the 6’2” thug ones with the grill in his mouth.)
2) Obama who got involved in something beneath the office of president with a lame comment to stir trouble. (we all know his son would be in a private school with secret service and would not have had drugs and jewelry in his locker)
3) Those black panther assholes who put a bounty out on someone's head? (how many laws are they breaking and getting away with)
4) What about that idiot Spike Lee who tweeted the wrong address (not that the right one would have been any better)
5) Those other 2 idiot’s who show up every time something happens to a black person and they can spin it to a hate crime?

[onmyknees]

Posted at 04:40 PM ET, 03/31/2012 TheWashingtonPost NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment

By Erik Wemple (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/erik-wemple/2011/06/22/gIQAILhj2I_page.html)

NBC told this blog today that it would investigate its handling of a piece on the “Today” show that ham-handedly abridged the conversation between George Zimmerman and a dispatcher in the moments before the death of Trayvon Martin. A statement from NBC:

“We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story.”
Great news right there.
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.
Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.
The difference between what “Today” put on its air and the actual tape? Complete: In the “Today” version, Zimmerman volunteered that this person “looks black,” a sequence of events that would more readily paint Zimmerman as a racial profiler. In reality’s version, Zimmerman simply answered a question about the race of the person whom he was reporting to the police. Nothing prejudicial at all in responding to such an inquiry.
And it’s a falsehood with repercussions. Much of the public discussion over the past week has settled on how conflicting facts and interpretations call into question whether Zimmerman acted justifiably or criminally. That’s a process that’ll continue. But one set of facts in the is ironclad, and that’s the back-and-forth between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. To portray that exchange in a way that wrongs Zimmerman is high editorial malpractice well worthy of the investigation that NBC is now mounting.

>There's been a whole pile of people who's behavior has been suspect in this, including the media. This is why all you who are substituting your opinions, experiences, and media reports in this case as matters of fact are so frustrated. We now have a major new organization doctoring 911 tapes.....and advocating for a full, fair and thorough investigation so that if there is an arrest, it will be valid.....is NOT defending Zimmerman. Those two things are exclusive of one another......don't add to the misinformation.

[EvonRose]

Witness found treyvon shot face down, while Zimmerman was behind him.

This indicated that Zimmerman was behind him, But he told the cops that Treyvon was behind him and hit him.

They found no injuries on Treyvon to indicate he hit Zimmerman, yet Zimmeran had injuries, leads to suspect if was self inflicted.

Police had told him to not follow the kid, yet he did. So he went against law advice.

He volunteered to be the watchman, having no rights to carry a gun at all.

He is a survivor of post traumatic stress disorder , So this racial profiling, following and his suspicious nature of his sounds like he was gunning for this poor kid.

The kid had not robbed, hurt, or vandalized the neighborhood, So just because it's raining and he's wearing a hood he is suspicious? Are you not allowed to keep your head dry when it rains?

I mean cmon Zimmerman sounds so sketchy!

[natina]

NO PARAMEDICS NEEDED OR USED FOR ZIMMERMAN





Video raises doubts about gunman’s story in Trayvon Martin case; defense says it’s too grainy


MIAMI — Newly released police video of a handcuffed George Zimmerman may be important for what it doesn’t show: No obvious cuts, scrapes, blood or bandages. No clearly broken nose. No plainly visible evidence of a life-and-death struggle with Trayvon Martin.
As the furor over race and self-defense raged on in Florida and around the U.S. on Thursday, Martin’s family and supporters seized on the footage to dispute Zimmerman’s claim that he shot and killed the unarmed black teenager after the young man attacked him.
While cautioning that the video is grainy and far from conclusive, some legal experts agreed it does raise questions about Zimmerman’s story. The video was made about a half-hour after the shooting Feb. 26.
“It could be very significant,” said Daniel Lurvey, a former Miami-Dade County homicide prosecutor. “If I were the prosecutor, it would certainly be Exhibit A that he did not suffer any major injury as a result of a confrontation with Trayvon Martin.”
Zimmerman attorney Craig Sonner said on NBC’s “Today” show that the footage appears to support his client’s story in some respects.
“It’s a very grainy video. ... However, if you watch, you’ll see one of the officers, as he’s walking in, looking at something on the back of his head,” Sonner said. “Clearly the report shows he was cleaned up before he was taken in the squad car.”
Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer in the town of Sanford, told police he shot the 17-year-old Martin after the young man punched him in the nose, knocked him down and repeatedly slammed his head against a sidewalk.
The Sanford Police Department video begins at 7:52 p.m., about 35 minutes after the shooting, as Zimmerman arrives at the station. It shows Zimmerman’s head and face as he gets out of a police car. There is no sound on the video.
There is no obvious wound on his head or blood on his clothing, and there are no indications of a broken nose — which Zimmerman’s lawyer has insisted he suffered. He walks briskly, smoothly and unassisted.
“The explanation he is relying on is that there was a physical altercation,” said Kendall Coffey, former U.S. attorney in Miami. “The intensity of the physical conflict is critical to his self-defense claim.”
Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the Martin family, said the footage directly contradicts Zimmerman’s story: “There are no marks on his face. There is no blood on his face. It’s not like he’s dazed or he has been injured.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-handcuffed-fla-shooter-zimmerman-in-handcuffs-teens-family-says-hes-unhurt/2012/03/28/gIQAOPvfhS_story.html

Witness found treyvon shot face down, while Zimmerman was behind him.

This indicated that Zimmerman was behind him, But he told the cops that Treyvon was behind him and hit him.

They found no injuries on Treyvon to indicate he hit Zimmerman, yet Zimmeran had injuries, leads to suspect if was self inflicted.

Police had told him to not follow the kid, yet he did. So he went against law advice.

He volunteered to be the watchman, having no rights to carry a gun at all.

He is a survivor of post traumatic stress disorder , So this racial profiling, following and his suspicious nature of his sounds like he was gunning for this poor kid.

The kid had not robbed, hurt, or vandalized the neighborhood, So just because it's raining and he's wearing a hood he is suspicious? Are you not allowed to keep your head dry when it rains?

I mean cmon Zimmerman sounds so sketchy!

[dafame]

R u serious?
You can't be serious?


Are we to believe these new experts who came up with a 48% certianty in their own words?

You guys do know there are experts who have seen Bigfoot and ghosts.........

problem with this world is the monday morning quarterbacks who would rather jump on a cause BEFORE the facts come out. This is nothing but a distraction to how big of a mess our country is in. Not to mention our leader who decided to make a lame statement to further fuel the fire.


Totally agree about the lame statement by our leader. How dare this guy say something like that to try to console the family. Did he forget that he's half white? For all he knows if he and Michelle had a sob he could actually look like Zimmerman. But he'd rather state with certainty that its Trayvon who his son would look like. The nerve if this guy.

[dafame]

If you read the initial police statements, it is documented that Zimmerman said on the scene he was yelling for help. Do you really think in the heat of the moment and being talked to by police that he would think ahead of the future and say that he was yelling for help knowing that the yells for help would be analyzed over and over? Have some common sense.


You just became so much hotter now that i have an idea of how you think.

[dafame]

I think its funny how retard the world is. I said i don't know if he did it or not and I can wait for the system to come to a conclusion.

What i find the funniest is all of the people who have a opinion based solely on what is thrown out on the news. (you know the people who report whatever they need to boost their ratings)


Here are some of the things that piss me off with this whole deal:

1) Picture of the victim when he was 14 (not like the ones he posted on his FB page you know the 6’2” thug ones with the grill in his mouth.)
2) Obama who got involved in something beneath the office of president with a lame comment to stir trouble. (we all know his son would be in a private school with secret service and would not have had drugs and jewelry in his locker)
3) Those black panther assholes who put a bounty out on someone's head? (how many laws are they breaking and getting away with)
4) What about that idiot Spike Lee who tweeted the wrong address (not that the right one would have been any better)
5) Those other 2 idiot’s who show up every time something happens to a black person and they can spin it to a hate crime?



I was going through this thread and was actually reading your posts and the true face of a person eventually comes our. I find it very telling that the only things about the situation that you don't like are things black people did...lol.. You're disqualified..

How many times does it have to be pointed out to you people that Trayvon didnt look like the gold teeth pictures the night he was murdered because that isn't Trayvon. The racist bitch Sunshyne posted those bullshit pictures from the right-wing smear campaign website that grab another kids pictures so they could incite the sentiment that you just expressed. This is old news bro. If you're gonna be commenting in this case at least be on the current timeline.

[natina]

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.
The conclusions of Owen and another audio expert were first reported by the Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty)on Saturday.
Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense.
The 911 call, reposted in this YouTube clip (http://www.youtube.com/embed/XSFbdZRb0dc), came on the night of Feb. 26 from a woman who reported someone crying out for help in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
In the recording of her phone call, panicked cries and a gunshot are heard.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say



Uh-Oh

Looks like Zimmerman may have been fibbing a little bit, experts say. Those screams people heard weren't his. Hm.........I hope this doesn't hurt Rush Limbo's feelings.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

[natina]

Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'?

Imagine. You're in a life or death struggle with someone you are desperately trying to kill with your bare hands. You have spent the last sixty seconds pummeling this person with your fists and bashing his head on the pavement. You notice he has a gun. You smile your evil, golden-toothed smile and say, "You are going to die tonight." The struggle continues, but this 250-lb. full grown, 28-year old man you have been grappling with for the last minute or so with your lanky, 17-year old, 160-lb. body, beating him with your fists, bashing his head over and over again, this intended murder victim you randomly chose to satisfy your mad, senseless, mindless, hatred of all White people, reaches into his holster, withdraws his 9mm and busts a cap in your chest. Right in the pump.
You look at the blood gushing from your chest wound, doing your best to keep any of it from splashing all over the person who just shot you. You make eye contact.
"You got me," you say, as you fall backwards. Dead.


Continue reading on Examiner.com Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'? - Baltimore liberal | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr41xmxv) http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr41xmxv

Continue reading on Examiner.com Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'? - Baltimore liberal | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr3tFB1X) http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr3tFB1X


http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me



http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/99/94/1333048856_beating.jpg

[dafame]

Posted at 04:40 PM ET, 03/31/2012 TheWashingtonPost NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment

By Erik Wemple (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/erik-wemple/2011/06/22/gIQAILhj2I_page.html)

NBC told this blog today that it would investigate its handling of a piece on the “Today” show that ham-handedly abridged the conversation between George Zimmerman and a dispatcher in the moments before the death of Trayvon Martin. A statement from NBC:

“We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story.”
Great news right there.
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.
Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.
The difference between what “Today” put on its air and the actual tape? Complete: In the “Today” version, Zimmerman volunteered that this person “looks black,” a sequence of events that would more readily paint Zimmerman as a racial profiler. In reality’s version, Zimmerman simply answered a question about the race of the person whom he was reporting to the police. Nothing prejudicial at all in responding to such an inquiry.
And it’s a falsehood with repercussions. Much of the public discussion over the past week has settled on how conflicting facts and interpretations call into question whether Zimmerman acted justifiably or criminally. That’s a process that’ll continue. But one set of facts in the is ironclad, and that’s the back-and-forth between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. To portray that exchange in a way that wrongs Zimmerman is high editorial malpractice well worthy of the investigation that NBC is now mounting.

>There's been a whole pile of people who's behavior has been suspect in this, including the media. This is why all you who are substituting your opinions, experiences, and media reports in this case as matters of fact are so frustrated. We now have a major new organization doctoring 911 tapes.....and advocating for a full, fair and thorough investigation so that if there is an arrest, it will be valid.....is NOT defending Zimmerman. Those two things are exclusive of one another......don't add to the misinformation.


These are good points and its a shame that this news organization did that. I hope in providing this information you're not however suggesting this means Trayvon was not racially profiled? I may believe that when when they show me that "fucking coons" was somehow doctored.

[AmyDaly]

I may believe that when when they show me that "fucking coons" was somehow doctored.
I think the "fucking coons" part is highly subjective as to what he said. The first time I heard it, it sounded like he said "fucking cold". Which actually make sense since it was raining and in the low 60's, which is fucking cold for Florida. Its open to interpretation. But it is also much like a ghost EVP to where you have news organizations suggestion to everyone that "It might say something racist!". That automatically makes people look for and assume that he said coons. If all the news stations reported it as the other way and didn't splice to 911 call, people would have a different opinion. Unfortunately everyone trusts the news and every opinion they report.

All the character witnesses for this man all point to him not being a racist person. Not a single person who knows the guy has said a single negative thing about the guy. There really is no evidence to the guy being racist other than he is white, which automatically makes him a racist in these people's minds.

[natina]

parroting fox news reports is bad for your health

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman has at least two dozen prior calls to 911 where he VOLUNTEERS the race of the person he's observing. He racially profiled the kid on is own, who the fuck cares about if he's being made to look 'racist'.

NBC edited the tape, but multiple other news outlets did not. Anyone who has access to youtube has heard the full, unedited exchange between Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher.

[AmyDaly]

parroting fox news reports is bad for your health

Haven't watched fox news in over 10 years. I don't even have cable. Try again.

[EvonRose]

Zimmerman has at least two dozen prior calls to 911 where he VOLUNTEERS the race of the person he's observing. He racially profiled the kid on is own, who the fuck cares about if he's being made to look 'racist'.

NBC edited the tape, but multiple other news outlets did not. Anyone who has access to youtube has heard the full, unedited exchange between Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher.

I agree 100%

Zimmerman had said loon multiple times, and his tone was that of an attack as oppose to him being cold. He saw his target and poor kid was the victim.

Like they said Zimmerman suffers depression, this type of depression makes people more paranoid, in this situation he saw a black kid with a hood and racially profiled him, and he went to the extreme of paranoid.

When will they limit gun rights against crazy people?
I get the right to bear arms but when does the line get drawn to stop people with the rights to have gun to stop them from walking in a mall and just shoot people?

[Merkurie]

Whether Zimmerman is racist or not is besides the point.

The point is whether he was justified in killing an unarmed person. Whether the police properly investigated his claim of self defense or just took his word for it even though Martin only was armed with snacks.

If there is evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin (which he admitted to 911) and that someone was screaming for help (whoever it was) and the dead body is unarmed, is it reasonable to take the shooter's side of the story (despite conflicting witness statements) and let him go home and leave it at that?

If someone you cared about was dead under those circumstances would anyone be satisfied with that?

[hippifried]

Zimmerman will end up getting his asshole stretched out in prison for one simple reason:

As soon as he got out of his vehicle & gave chase on foot, he became the threat, & therefore initiated the assault. Whatever happened between that point & the gunfire is irrelevant. Claims of self defense, "stand your ground", & whatever don't apply when you create the confrontation.

As far as I'm concerned, he needs to be locked away for committing the universal crime of being stupid.

[SunshyneMonroe]

How long are you guys gonna beat this dead hourse....

[giovanni_hotel]

Most reasonable people want to see Zimmerman arrested and forced to make his crazy defense before a jury of his peers.

It's really disturbing how you continue to imply shooting a Black teenager is 'justifiable homicide' on principle.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/no%20no%20no/grand/1780549-shakehead.gif

[EvonRose]

How long are you guys gonna beat this dead hourse....

This will go on for a long time till Zimmerman is locked away.

[hippifried]

How long are you guys gonna beat this dead hourse....
Until it comes back to life.

[nonnonnon]

just like casey anthony? oj?

[Willie Escalade]

just like casey anthony? oj?

But they were arrested.

[notdrunk]

Zimmerman will end up getting his asshole stretched out in prison for one simple reason:

As soon as he got out of his vehicle & gave chase on foot, he became the threat, & therefore initiated the assault. Whatever happened between that point & the gunfire is irrelevant. Claims of self defense, "stand your ground", & whatever don't apply when you create the confrontation.

As far as I'm concerned, he needs to be locked away for committing the universal crime of being stupid.

Not exactly. Something similarly happened in New York (i.e., the shooter creating the confrontation) and the individual was found not guilty by a jury.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/

Since the Martin shooting, this story has gotten some spotlight because the shooter is Black and the dead teen is White.

[DCGuy343]

He was clearly arrested as we can see in the video from the police station. He gets out of the police car in cuffs.

The question is what happens after that...Let me see...

:confused::confused::confused:

My father is an ex-judge who is retired in Florida...make the phone call.

Zimmerman's dad called in a favor and when the shit hit the fan and this was put out there under the floodlights, the cover-up began in my opinion.

That is how things work...If you know the right people, sometimes you can get away with murder.

Lets see what happens. Will he be arrested again...or not?

:confused::confused::confused:

[urbanchampion]

Hispanic are of mixed race.
black,Spanish,English



mestizo


see dr gates documentary

Professor Gates explores how race has been socially constructed

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=56458

First of all, I am "African-American". I'm not meaning to be disrespectful to you or anyone else on this forum. But I'd like to know why you're copying and pasting a bunch of info about race and ethnicity and websites with that information on it. This situation shouldn't even be about race. It should be about morality and principle, period. Without even getting emotional about racial issues, or trying to bring religion into it, which is what those two "reverends" are doing, anyone can use logic and reason and see that something is not right. As a person who adheres to libertarian, objectivist, and secular humanistic values I can see that something is not right. And, yes, as time goes on we are getting more information which is a good thing.

What you said about Hispanic people is wrong. Generally speaking, first and foremost, they have indigenous/native/Amerindian ancestry. This is obvious from their appearance. You did not mention that. You were right about African and European. Several times as many West African slaves were sent to Mexico, the West Indies, Central, and South America than to the USA. You mentioned Spanish and English, but you need to mention Portuguese because they made a very large percentage of the European immigration. Immigrants from other areas in Europe such as France and Germany also went there. Generally speaking, there were no racial marriage laws or segregation laws in these countries/colonies as opposed to the USA. There was a caste system based on skin color and racial family history. There still is to a certain extent, but over the centuries it's become very hard to determine exactly what someone's ethnic mixture is so it's for the most part very impractical nowadays. Major terms are as follows; Negro = black, Mulatto = white/black, Zambo = black/native, Mestizo = white/native (you weren't accurate about that), and there are several other terms depending on other amounts/percentages of ancestry, but as you can see it gets to the point that it's like splitting hairs. That's why the vast majority of Hispanic/Latino people who come to the USA don't adhere to our rules of ethnic identification even if they LOOK mostly white, black, or native american. A lot of "African-Americans" like myself wouldn't be called "negro" in Latin America. Although my skin is light brown and my features are clearly mixed (I have maternal and paternal great-grandmothers who were biracial black/native, and white ancestors as well such as a maternal great-great-great grandfather) I am called black in the USA because of the racist "One Drop Rule" that was instituted during slavery (it increased the amount of slaves despite their race) and it still lingers in society today. Things are/were very different in Latin America. Mixing between white, black, and native was very common. For example, Mexico's first president Vicente Guerrero was white/black/native. In the nation of Argentina today, the vast majority of people identify as "white" because of a more recent wave of immigrants from Italy and Germany (the first ones to arrive were Spanish). But 150 years ago most of the population was largely native and black ("mulattoes", "mestizos", "zambos", etc included), with only 3% identifying as unmixed white. Today, there's only a very small percentage of people who look non-white. Those non-European people didn't just disappear. Their children are today's Argentinians.

That's all for now.

[urbanchampion]

I think the "fucking coons" part is highly subjective as to what he said. The first time I heard it, it sounded like he said "fucking cold". Which actually make sense since it was raining and in the low 60's, which is fucking cold for Florida. Its open to interpretation. But it is also much like a ghost EVP to where you have news organizations suggestion to everyone that "It might say something racist!". That automatically makes people look for and assume that he said coons. If all the news stations reported it as the other way and didn't splice to 911 call, people would have a different opinion. Unfortunately everyone trusts the news and every opinion they report.

All the character witnesses for this man all point to him not being a racist person. Not a single person who knows the guy has said a single negative thing about the guy. There really is no evidence to the guy being racist other than he is white, which automatically makes him a racist in these people's minds.

About that "fucking coons" thing. The man who came to Zimmerman's defense about that wasn't even his friend. I'll just direct everyone here...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/joe-oliver-not-a-close-friend-of-george-zimmerman/2012/03/28/gIQAFayGgS_blog.html

Anyway, you're right, apparently Zimmerman got along with lots of different people. But I know people will say shit when they get emotional. People will say shit that they'd never ever say in front of friends and family if they get emotional enough. I'm sure...no...I'm CERTAIN, that the vast majority of people on this forum (whether you're a racist or not) have at some point in time thrown around racial slurs, either mentally or verbally, when they get pissed off at someone. You don't have to admit to doing it. But I know it's true because that's the reality of it. I am no exception to that rule and I'm honest enough to admit that I have done it (even to people who fall into my own ethnic social category; and NOT as a "term of endearment", I might add). But, it makes no sense to say "fucking cold, they always get away". The sentence does make sense if you replace "cold" with "coons". A little bit of logic can go a long way.

[GroobySteven]

Sounds like "cunts".

[urbanchampion]

Sounds like "cunts".

Or maybe..."cocks"?

With folks here obviously liking cock to SOME degree, we don't want that to get away. LOL

[dafame]

How long are you guys gonna beat this dead hourse....


Until hopefully someone shoots you bitch.

[urbanchampion]

Until hopefully someone shoots you bitch.

...we don't need people to start acting like this...

[amberskyi]

Until hopefully someone shoots you bitch.

Where is the moderators? this is a ban deserving

[dafame]

Where is the moderators? this is a ban deserving


I can agree with that now that i actually step back and read it.

[hippifried]

Not exactly. Something similarly happened in New York (i.e., the shooter creating the confrontation) and the individual was found not guilty by a jury.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/

Since the Martin shooting, this story has gotten some spotlight because the shooter is Black and the dead teen is White.
You think this is similar? Maybe if Zimmerman had been the one who got shot.

One more time. Zimmerman was attacking Martin when he got out of his car & chased him down the walkways of the commons. When you chase someone down, especially when you have no authority to do so, you should expect them to fight when you catch them. Even that cute little bunny rabbit will fight to the death when cornered by a predator. Zimmerman was the assailant, & that negates all claims of self defense.

Cervini was attacking Scott. Stepping out your front door to yell at a couple of punks who are breaking into your neighbor's car isn't an assault by any stretch of the imagination. You can't even make the claim that he initiated the confrontation. Charging toward someone in a threatening manner is an assault. That's the literal definition of the word. Scott defended himself against an assailant, who he already knew was a criminal because he'd just caught him in the act. Again: That's the definition of fthe term "self defense". Another thing that's not similar at all is that Scott was arrested & charged with manslaughter. You say the jury acquitted him? Well of course they did. Cervini died of stupidity. His partner who ran away should have been charged with felony murder because the death happened during & because of them committing a crime.

[onmyknees]

Zimmerman has at least two dozen prior calls to 911 where he VOLUNTEERS the race of the person he's observing. He racially profiled the kid on is own, who the fuck cares about if he's being made to look 'racist'.

NBC edited the tape, but multiple other news outlets did not. Anyone who has access to youtube has heard the full, unedited exchange between Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher.


Again you're projecting your opinion onto Zimmerman, which is astounding considering a special prosecutor has apparently not been able to sort that out yet........just like you've done all along....but you matter of factly dismiss the revelation that a major news organization doctored a tape in a case with national implications and where "escalated civil disobedience" is a reality. So what you say.....just find it on YouTube. Why do you think they did that, and what if somebody didn't go to you tube but took the NBC version as fact?

The irony of your position is next week somebody will make a post that some black kid that was arrested under sketchy circumstances and you'll be screaming about a rush to judgement, and you'd be right to do so. Maybe you don't see your inconsistency, but I sure do. It's incredible that people are actually advocating arrest first, then let 'em sort out the facts later. That's all fine and good until you're the one standing face to face with some cop telling your side of the story as he's reaching for the cuffs. And if they do arrest him and the charge is manslaughter, he could make bond, and he'll be out anyway. What it sounds like some of you want is a conviction....before a trial or even an arrest.

[doctor screw]

They're tons of classy people on this site

[giovanni_hotel]

I said I want him ARRESTED.
The odds that Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers in FLA, ( i.e., predominantly WHITE) are low.

It's unreal that ANYONE could blow a hole through an unarmed teenager's chest whom YOU were following in the first place, and you the shooter admit to police you murdered him and still NOT BE ARRESTED.

If Zimmerman wasn't racially profiling Trayvon, why the fuck was that asshole following him?? Why was he threatening?? What was so 'menacing' about a teenager walking back home on a candy run from the convenience store??

OMK, this is a murder case, not some black kid arrested under sketchy circumstances.

What this case is about and the reason why people are pissed off is the constant, un-ending racial profiling against minorities, in most cases unjustified, institutional racism, since no BLACK MAN could murder a 'suspicious' looking white teen and claim self-defense and not be arrested on the spot, and the most idiotic law in the country courtesy of the NRA, the SYG law.

The reason I don't care too much that NBC doctored a portion of ZImmerman's 911 call is because it was replayed UNEDITED on CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.
If NBC Network News fucked it up, it doesn't change the facts of that tape. Besides there are other recordings of Zimmerman calling 911 prior where he volunteers the race of the person he's watching.
Zimmerman said it looked like Trayvon was on drugs and implied he had a weapon tucked in his waistband. WTF??

The dude should be locked up for being a delusional psychopath.

THe only people who think the pro Trayvon activists want Zimmerman to be CONVICTED are the talking heads on FAUX News.
At every rally and protest, the only demand has been for justice and Zimmerman's arrest.


Why is it that conservatives have latched on to the murder of an innocent Black teen and tried to make it something political??

That's sick.

[robertlouis]

As reports come through of another college campus massacre in California, isn't it about time that gun possession laws should be reviewed if only to try and prevent casual access to firearms by people who, sadly with hindsight, should never be allowed near them?

[Despot]

pfft, no wonder why trannies and pornstars are treated as the degenerates of society, no fucking brain whatsoever.

[runningdownthatdream]

I said I want him ARRESTED.
The odds that Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers in FLA, ( i.e., predominantly WHITE) are low.

It's unreal that ANYONE could blow a hole through an unarmed teenager's chest whom YOU were following in the first place, and you the shooter admit to police you murdered him and still NOT BE ARRESTED.

If Zimmerman wasn't racially profiling Trayvon, why the fuck was that asshole following him?? Why was he threatening?? What was so 'menacing' about a teenager walking back home on a candy run from the convenience store??

OMK, this is a murder case, not some black kid arrested under sketchy circumstances.

What this case is about and the reason why people are pissed off is the constant, un-ending racial profiling against minorities, in most cases unjustified, institutional racism, since no BLACK MAN could murder a 'suspicious' looking white teen and claim self-defense and not be arrested on the spot, and the most idiotic law in the country courtesy of the NRA, the SYG law.

The reason I don't care too much that NBC doctored a portion of ZImmerman's 911 call is because it was replayed UNEDITED on CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.
If NBC Network News fucked it up, it doesn't change the facts of that tape. Besides there are other recordings of Zimmerman calling 911 prior where he volunteers the race of the person he's watching.
Zimmerman said it looked like Trayvon was on drugs and implied he had a weapon tucked in his waistband. WTF??

The dude should be locked up for being a delusional psychopath.

THe only people who think the pro Trayvon activists want Zimmerman to be CONVICTED are the talking heads on FAUX News.
At every rally and protest, the only demand has been for justice and Zimmerman's arrest.


Why is it that conservatives have latched on to the murder of an innocent Black teen and tried to make it something political??

That's sick.

You're not gonna change the opinion of that jackass who likes to see himself as the voice of reason - Captain Conservative who likes to trumpet his street cred vis a vis his visits to his boy pals in the big house but at the same time representing the 1%....... he'd like us to think he represents the 1-percenters but in reality he's advocating for the other 1% club that he can't get into because he isn't worth enough.

A kid was killed. The facts seem to be that Zimmerman rolled up on him, got his ass handed to him by a 17yr old and resorted to using his gun. How any MAN could advocate for a such a bitch as Zimmerman is beyond me and likely anyone else who's a true 1-percenter.

[runningdownthatdream]

As reports come through of another college campus massacre in California, isn't it about time that gun possession laws should be reviewed if only to try and prevent casual access to firearms by people who, sadly with hindsight, should never be allowed near them?

One thing has nothing to do with another - if not for the guns the Yanks wouldn't have thrown you despotic lot out in 1776. The problem isn't with guns per se or with restricting people's access to weapons and has more to do with cultural and social issues.

GUN CONTROL IS A RED HERRING

[robertlouis]

One thing has nothing to do with another - if not for the guns the Yanks wouldn't have thrown you despotic lot out in 1776. The problem isn't with guns per se or with restricting people's access to weapons and has more to do with cultural and social issues.

GUN CONTROL IS A RED HERRING

That was, as you say, 1776. Most societies have moved on and become more enlightened in the last 236 years, the UK certainly has.

I don't disagree at all with your central premise, but if not tighter regulation around access to firearms, which is what I'm advocating - not overall gun control - what's the alternative? Simply shrug and let the slaughter continue?

[onmyknees]

I said I want him ARRESTED.
The odds that Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers in FLA, ( i.e., predominantly WHITE) are low.

It's unreal that ANYONE could blow a hole through an unarmed teenager's chest whom YOU were following in the first place, and you the shooter admit to police you murdered him and still NOT BE ARRESTED.

If Zimmerman wasn't racially profiling Trayvon, why the fuck was that asshole following him?? Why was he threatening?? What was so 'menacing' about a teenager walking back home on a candy run from the convenience store??

OMK, this is a murder case, not some black kid arrested under sketchy circumstances.

What this case is about and the reason why people are pissed off is the constant, un-ending racial profiling against minorities, in most cases unjustified, institutional racism, since no BLACK MAN could murder a 'suspicious' looking white teen and claim self-defense and not be arrested on the spot, and the most idiotic law in the country courtesy of the NRA, the SYG law.

The reason I don't care too much that NBC doctored a portion of ZImmerman's 911 call is because it was replayed UNEDITED on CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.
If NBC Network News fucked it up, it doesn't change the facts of that tape. Besides there are other recordings of Zimmerman calling 911 prior where he volunteers the race of the person he's watching.
Zimmerman said it looked like Trayvon was on drugs and implied he had a weapon tucked in his waistband. WTF??

The dude should be locked up for being a delusional psychopath.

THe only people who think the pro Trayvon activists want Zimmerman to be CONVICTED are the talking heads on FAUX News.
At every rally and protest, the only demand has been for justice and Zimmerman's arrest.


Why is it that conservatives have latched on to the murder of an innocent Black teen and tried to make it something political??

That's sick.



I would answer that by asking why liberals are way over the top on this...giving out wrong addresses and endangering old folks, calling for bounties, blaming everybody from Jeb Bush to Mitt Romeny, editing 911 tapes, making outrageous statements in Congress....If you think your side is free from bad behavior in this, you're really even less objective than you sound here. Shame on you dude. Nobody's defending Zimmerman....not that I see. That shit's not flying.....I've been nothing but respectful to the family and the deceased....you're the one making wild accusations and substituting your experiences for what happened in this case, playing some sort of CSI cop....Now it's my turn for a question....how many black males were murdered in the US last year? How many times did you take to HA to lament about any of them? Don't dump this off as some political agenda...that's fucked up. Zimmerman was a registered Democrat and half Hispanic...what's the big bounty for conservatives in all that? Use your head. That's the shit your side pulls every day all day, and it's tired. Lose it. You're jaded. Get right .

[runningdownthatdream]

That was, as you say, 1776. Most societies have moved on and become more enlightened in the last 236 years, the UK certainly has.

I don't disagree at all with your central premise, but if not tighter regulation around access to firearms, which is what I'm advocating - not overall gun control - what's the alternative? Simply shrug and let the slaughter continue?

How're knife crimes coming along in the UK? What about good old-fashioned beatings at the pub? Are those on the decline? Based on the last time I looked at UK crime, it didn't seem that way. Controlling guns may lessen the number of fatalities but where there's a will there's a way.

Although I have to admit it's probably better that Arnie666 has use of a flashlight only and not a gun!

[robertlouis]

How're knife crimes coming along in the UK? What about good old-fashioned beatings at the pub? Are those on the decline? Based on the last time I looked at UK crime, it didn't seem that way. Controlling guns may lessen the number of fatalities but where there's a will there's a way.

Although I have to admit it's probably better that Arnie666 has use of a flashlight only and not a gun!

OK, the UK is far from perfect - and don't get me started on the old Etonians and their appalling government - and street crime IS a problem. That said, and in spite of tabloid doom-mongering, both long and short-term trends indicate that the overall levels of crime are falling. Add easier access to guns and that whole environment becomes exponentially more (pun alert) combustible.

And your argument is specious at best. I'm not holding up the UK as a paragon - THAT'S the red herring.

I'll ask again - what would you do? In the US there's little "will", at least in the sense of political effort to impact it, so should everyone just sit back and concede the moral ground to the NRA? And what's the Canadian perspective on it?

[runningdownthatdream]

OK, the UK is far from perfect - and don't get me started on the old Etonians and their appalling government - and street crime IS a problem. That said, and in spite of tabloid doom-mongering, both long and short-term trends indicate that the overall levels of crime are falling. Add easier access to guns and that whole environment becomes exponentially more (pun alert) combustible.

And your argument is specious at best. I'm not holding up the UK as a paragon - THAT'S the red herring.

I'll ask again - what would you do? In the US there's little "will", at least in the sense of political effort to impact it, so should everyone just sit back and concede the moral ground to the NRA? And what's the Canadian perspective on it?

The US was founded by the gun. US foreign policy is conducted from behind the gun (you may recall the term gunboat diplomacy was created to describe the US approach to Japan in the late 19th century and based on an actual incident). Americans are accustomed to leading with the gun. Rather than mandate against guns I'd be inclined to force every American to carry a gun - eventually they'll figure it out. Remember the Spartans? How long did their martial society last?

I'm not sure what the Canadian stance is - likely one closer to English or should I say Scottish sensibilities. We have a conservative government who at one point had a racist (Stockwell Day) as Minister of Public Safety. The majority in this country will suffer any kind of injustice as long as the social order remains in tact.....isn't that the Scottish thing!?

[EvonRose]

I said I want him ARRESTED.
The odds that Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers in FLA, ( i.e., predominantly WHITE) are low.

It's unreal that ANYONE could blow a hole through an unarmed teenager's chest whom YOU were following in the first place, and you the shooter admit to police you murdered him and still NOT BE ARRESTED.

If Zimmerman wasn't racially profiling Trayvon, why the fuck was that asshole following him?? Why was he threatening?? What was so 'menacing' about a teenager walking back home on a candy run from the convenience store??

OMK, this is a murder case, not some black kid arrested under sketchy circumstances.

What this case is about and the reason why people are pissed off is the constant, un-ending racial profiling against minorities, in most cases unjustified, institutional racism, since no BLACK MAN could murder a 'suspicious' looking white teen and claim self-defense and not be arrested on the spot, and the most idiotic law in the country courtesy of the NRA, the SYG law.

The reason I don't care too much that NBC doctored a portion of ZImmerman's 911 call is because it was replayed UNEDITED on CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.
If NBC Network News fucked it up, it doesn't change the facts of that tape. Besides there are other recordings of Zimmerman calling 911 prior where he volunteers the race of the person he's watching.
Zimmerman said it looked like Trayvon was on drugs and implied he had a weapon tucked in his waistband. WTF??

The dude should be locked up for being a delusional psychopath.

THe only people who think the pro Trayvon activists want Zimmerman to be CONVICTED are the talking heads on FAUX News.
At every rally and protest, the only demand has been for justice and Zimmerman's arrest.


Why is it that conservatives have latched on to the murder of an innocent Black teen and tried to make it something political??

That's sick.

i have been with you since your first post, I agree 100 %

You stating he is a psychopath has been an argument by many, saying because he suffered post traumatic stress disorder he created this delusional world Where he is suppose to be this mighty protector and treyvon was this suspicious thug.

Zimmerman's defenses sucks, he said he thought treyvon was suspicious because he says this loon with a hood looks suspicious?

Bu then didn't he say it was raining? and cold? So why is it bad for a kid to be walking with a sweater to keep himself warm and a hood to keep him dry?

You can't look at someone with a hood, and a person of race and just assume they're bad, that's wrong!

On my knees, zimmerman never saw treyvon do anything bad, He pursued and created the situation because he is a bit mentally unstable, Treyvon never hit him, never even for self defense. This to me seems like he easily went to treyvon since there is no evidence of treyvon fighting or hitting Zimmerman.

I am a minority too, however so is Zimmerman, he's not white. I don't think he's a white man being racist, i think he was a latino who was mentally unstable who racially profiled a 17 year old minority.

Everyone is going to have a view on this differently, But you have to look at it in the view of the minority involved int his case, and it's understandable to all degrees, No one wants that uncertain feeling of walking down a steet getting shot and having no justice.

[robertlouis]

The US was founded by the gun. US foreign policy is conducted from behind the gun (you may recall the term gunboat diplomacy was created to describe the US approach to Japan in the late 19th century and based on an actual incident). Americans are accustomed to leading with the gun. Rather than mandate against guns I'd be inclined to force every American to carry a gun - eventually they'll figure it out. Remember the Spartans? How long did their martial society last?

I'm not sure what the Canadian stance is - likely one closer to English or should I say Scottish sensibilities. We have a conservative government who at one point had a racist (Stockwell Day) as Minister of Public Safety. The majority in this country will suffer any kind of injustice as long as the social order remains in tact.....isn't that the Scottish thing!?

It will be interesting to read what happens when our US friends re-enter this debate! :)

You're absolutely spot on in your analysis, although forcing people to caary a gun would be interesting..... as long as you could watch from a safe distance. Spartan society imploded because of their hideous treatment of their slave class, the healots, and their overwhelming emphasis of maleness to the exclusion of all else. Despite all the admiration for their undoubted courage and military prowess their society operated pretty much in a proto-fascist way - check Mussolini's inspirations.

As to the English/Scottish thing, we should probably take that off-line. I suspect that what you describe as that instinct for preservation of the social order is largely true, but the reassertion of a distinctive Scottish political sensibility in the wake of the Thatcher years indicates that Scots' adherence to that aim is fiercer and can indeed only be achieved by ultimate separation from England. The union of the parliaments and the resultant formation of the United Kingdom in the early 18th century was very much a matter of economic necessity for Scotland, brought about by highly protective, not to say vindictive, English economic policy. It all sounds horribly familiar!

[EvonRose]

The US was founded by the gun. US foreign policy is conducted from behind the gun (you may recall the term gunboat diplomacy was created to describe the US approach to Japan in the late 19th century and based on an actual incident). Americans are accustomed to leading with the gun. Rather than mandate against guns I'd be inclined to force every American to carry a gun - eventually they'll figure it out. Remember the Spartans? How long did their martial society last?

I'm not sure what the Canadian stance is - likely one closer to English or should I say Scottish sensibilities. We have a conservative government who at one point had a racist (Stockwell Day) as Minister of Public Safety. The majority in this country will suffer any kind of injustice as long as the social order remains in tact.....isn't that the Scottish thing!?

I would rather face a man with a knife, or a fight a person physically than to face a lunatic with a gun to my head.... Just saying.

[runningdownthatdream]

Core US practices aren't far removed from what the Spartans. The specifics may be different but on a macro level it's a similar mentality. And if you've read the stats about the US accounting for 25% of the worlds prison population I think you'll understand they are not far removed from being a fascist society. Law after law created to restrict the liberties of people and resulting in more and more people imprisoned. Of course some like the resident 1%er here supports that approach.

I understand the Scots....I think. They are practical people and will do what needs to be done at all costs even at suppressing others. I come from a former British colony....the mark of the Scots were everywhere. They built the roads and the docks and the buildings that housed the colonizers. Once they accepted their role within the UK they did a damn good job of enforcing English rule around the world!

[runningdownthatdream]

I would rather face a man with a knife, or a fight a person physically than to face a lunatic with a gun to my head.... Just saying.

That's why you should get your own gun...........

I see you point to a certain extent but I believe that we must deal with the root cause of violence not with semantics such as what weapon is used to commit the violence. I know - I've been accused of being violent :)

[EvonRose]

That's why you should get your own gun...........

I see you point to a certain extent but I believe that we must deal with the root cause of violence not with semantics such as what weapon is used to commit the violence. I know - I've been accused of being violent :)

Okay What if one day I go crazy and start shooting in a school or a mall and one or several of this people happen to be either one or several people in your family unarmed? What then? I go to jail but how is that bringing anyone to life?

[robertlouis]

Core US practices aren't far removed from what the Spartans. The specifics may be different but on a macro level it's a similar mentality. And if you've read the stats about the US accounting for 25% of the worlds prison population I think you'll understand they are not far removed from being a fascist society. Law after law created to restrict the liberties of people and resulting in more and more people imprisoned. Of course some like the resident 1%er here supports that approach.

I understand the Scots....I think. They are practical people and will do what needs to be done at all costs even at suppressing others. I come from a former British colony....the mark of the Scots were everywhere. They built the roads and the docks and the buildings that housed the colonizers. Once they accepted their role within the UK they did a damn good job of enforcing English rule around the world!

Stand by for incoming from the usual suspect(s) lol!

Canada is (I stand to be corrected) largely the product of two exploring and colonising people, the French and the Scots, with a significant sprinkling of empire loyalists after the American revolution. The French arrived first and created a pragmatic trading empire, until they were ethnically cleansed by the British after the Seven Years War. The Scots came largely by default, Highlanders expelled by rapacious landlords during the Clearances in the wake of Culloden, but between them they created a unique society with a unique set of values which continue to make Canada one of the most admired countries in the world.

However, many Scots, myself among them, recognise Scotland as very much England's last colony. Their rule has been largely benign, but we don't want to risk another tidal wave of unnecessary and inappropriate Thatcherism, hence the renewed drive towards independence. As Renton memorably said in Trainspotting, we were colonised by wankers, so what does that make us?

[runningdownthatdream]

Okay What if one day I go crazy and start shooting in a school or a mall and one or several of this people happen to be either one or several people in your family unarmed? What then? I go to jail but how is that bringing anyone to life?

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.

[robertlouis]

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.

Don't disagree, but surely adding relatively easy access to firearms just makes the situation worse? What you said below in terms of the macro realities of the situation in the US is true, but at a practical and personal level, something needs to be done to curtail the circumstances which allow this kind of thing to happen all too often.

[runningdownthatdream]

Stand by for incoming from the usual suspect(s) lol!

Canada is (I stand to be corrected) largely the product of two exploring and colonising people, the French and the Scots, with a significant sprinkling of empire loyalists after the American revolution. The French arrived first and created a pragmatic trading empire, until they were ethnically cleansed by the British after the Seven Years War. The Scots came largely by default, Highlanders expelled by rapacious landlords during the Clearances in the wake of Culloden, but between them they created a unique society with a unique set of values which continue to make Canada one of the most admired countries in the world.

However, many Scots, myself among them, recognise Scotland as very much England's last colony. Their rule has been largely benign, but we don't want to risk another tidal wave of unnecessary and inappropriate Thatcherism, hence the renewed drive towards independence. As Renton memorably said in Trainspotting, we were colonised by wankers, so what does that make us?

I see you've drunk the Koolaid on Canada...incidentally I came from the country that is responsible for that phrase 'drinking the Koolaid' although it was an American that was responsible for that crime.

Canada was founded mainly by the French who were content to exploit their relations with the native people in what is generally called Eastern Canada (Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island and some might include eastern Manitoba too) to supply the European rage for beaver fur. The French monarchy took a mostly laissez faire attitude to the region until the Napoleonic Wars. The Scots came after the fall of New France (you must go to Quebec some day and stand on the Plains of Abraham as that battle was arguably the one with the most profound long term impact on North America) and helped define and build Canada. The first PM was a Scotsman!

I wouldn't say the French experienced ethnic cleansing here - that's a lie that's been repeated for too long. In fact the English allowed far far greater freedoms to the French here than they did to other conquered lands - compare to what happened to Africa or India or even later the Boers - and you'll see. The French were allowed to continue practicing most of their way of life including language, religion, etc. Anyways we've hijacked the thread so I'll quit now!

[robertlouis]

I see you've drunk the Koolaid on Canada...incidentally I came from the country that is responsible for that phrase 'drinking the Koolaid' although it was an American that was responsible for that crime.

Canada was founded mainly by the French who were content to exploit their relations with the native people in what is generally called Eastern Canada (Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island and some might include eastern Manitoba too) to supply the European rage for beaver fur. The French monarchy took a mostly laissez faire attitude to the region until the Napoleonic Wars. The Scots came after the fall of New France (you must go to Quebec some day and stand on the Plains of Abraham as that battle was arguably the one with the most profound long term impact on North America) and helped define and build Canada. The first PM was a Scotsman!

I wouldn't say the French experienced ethnic cleansing here - that's a lie that's been repeated for too long. In fact the English allowed far far greater freedoms to the French here than they did to other conquered lands - compare to what happened to Africa or India or even later the Boers - and you'll see. The French were allowed to continue practicing most of their way of life including language, religion, etc. Anyways we've hijacked the thread so I'll quit now!

Yep, but at least we won't get shot lol.

[SammiValentine]

How're knife crimes coming along in the UK? What about good old-fashioned beatings at the pub? Are those on the decline? Based on the last time I looked at UK crime, it didn't seem that way. Controlling guns may lessen the number of fatalities but where there's a will there's a way.

Although I have to admit it's probably better that Arnie666 has use of a flashlight only and not a gun!

You didnt look very closely then as our gun crime is still increasing and has been even since the amnesty law thingy.. I think the main benefit of our controls is statisitically that we have a lot less "crazed gun man massacres". I think our last one was in Cumbria.... forgot his name.. but I do remmeber he had a gun licence anyway so yea that puts a small boot up the ass of that theory, like you say where there is a will.... Also on the boot up the ass point our population is a lot smaller, our society is a lot different (i think you have a lot more race, religion and isssues in general over there - no offense meant and ive never been to U.S so i could be wrong).

Anyway this gun control thing its an awfully difficult thing to pass judgement on - plus your laws are state to state and bla bla, itd be a lot different over there anyway. I dont think the UK and what we do is comparable to US.

[nonnonnon]

http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2008/01/america-least-racist-country-in-world.html

[notdrunk]

You think this is similar? Maybe if Zimmerman had been the one who got shot.

One more time. Zimmerman was attacking Martin when he got out of his car & chased him down the walkways of the commons. When you chase someone down, especially when you have no authority to do so, you should expect them to fight when you catch them. Even that cute little bunny rabbit will fight to the death when cornered by a predator. Zimmerman was the assailant, & that negates all claims of self defense.

Cervini was attacking Scott. Stepping out your front door to yell at a couple of punks who are breaking into your neighbor's car isn't an assault by any stretch of the imagination. You can't even make the claim that he initiated the confrontation. Charging toward someone in a threatening manner is an assault. That's the literal definition of the word. Scott defended himself against an assailant, who he already knew was a criminal because he'd just caught him in the act. Again: That's the definition of fthe term "self defense". Another thing that's not similar at all is that Scott was arrested & charged with manslaughter. You say the jury acquitted him? Well of course they did. Cervini died of stupidity. His partner who ran away should have been charged with felony murder because the death happened during & because of them committing a crime.

Zimmerman attacked Martin now? That must be realllllyyyy brand new news. And, I just thought he was only following him. By the way, Scott pulled out a gun and told them to freeze. He went out of his way to engage would-be thieves even though he knew that his girlfriend called the police about a group of teens breaking into a neighbor's car. He left his house to be a police officer. Sounds familiar..no?

The state of New York wanted to charge Scott with murder; however, a grand jury recommended him to be charged with manslaughter. A jury acquitted him. If Scott can get off, so can Zimmerman if he even goes to trial.

[EvonRose]

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.

People are more likely to tackle me down, example men who are over 150 pounds, since i weigh about 120, I could kill a man as big as a hippo it takes one shot in the head with a gun. i could kill more people in less time as to the effort of a knife, i would burn out fighting off people. You are also more likely to survive a knife attack. We can't protect ourselves but the point is lessening the violence and in no doubt in my mind if we control the gun situation it would decrease. You talk about england and the US lets take statistic in account to what country has more fatality in a violent act, or how many of those crimes are gun related.

People are more likely to convict me as well. Since it take close body contact s oppose to gun shooting from a distance and claiming self defense!

how do we expect everyone to defend themselves against these types of people? People under 18 are helpless, Like treyvon was. So how can we protect them from people like Zimmerman who are trigger happy?

[robertlouis]

As reports come through of another college campus massacre in California, isn't it about time that gun possession laws should be reviewed if only to try and prevent casual access to firearms by people who, sadly with hindsight, should never be allowed near them?

*bump*

[robertlouis]

You didnt look very closely then as our gun crime is still increasing and has been even since the amnesty law thingy.. I think the main benefit of our controls is statisitically that we have a lot less "crazed gun man massacres". I think our last one was in Cumbria.... forgot his name.. but I do remmeber he had a gun licence anyway so yea that puts a small boot up the ass of that theory, like you say where there is a will.... Also on the boot up the ass point our population is a lot smaller, our society is a lot different (i think you have a lot more race, religion and isssues in general over there - no offense meant and ive never been to U.S so i could be wrong).

Anyway this gun control thing its an awfully difficult thing to pass judgement on - plus your laws are state to state and bla bla, itd be a lot different over there anyway. I dont think the UK and what we do is comparable to US.

Interesting points, Sammi. It's also worth adding that the tightening of our gun laws here in the UK followed the lone gunman atrocities in Hungerford and Dunblane. In both of those cases, and the one in Cumbria (Derek Bird), the gunman was licensed to carry firearms and was a member of a gun club. So action was taken in that context, and on the assumption that it was placing tighter restrictions on people who already had legal access to guns.

What it failed to address, of course, was the trade in illegal firearms and their increasingly casual use in inner-city crime, usually gang or drug-related. That's less about control and more about vigilance and prevention by the police and wider authorities. And in such cases guns are being carried and even used by minors - I particularly recall that terrible shooting of the kiddy in Liverpool by a juvenile on a bike.

[BigDF]

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.Funny thing about other weapons: you never hear of anyone being killed by a stray knife or baseball bat. On the other hand... IMHO if anyone wants to be serious about this issue, it would make more sense to license gun owners, just as we do with automobiles. But of course that would be an infringement of freedoms, right?:geek:

[runningdownthatdream]

You didnt look very closely then as our gun crime is still increasing and has been even since the amnesty law thingy.. I think the main benefit of our controls is statisitically that we have a lot less "crazed gun man massacres". I think our last one was in Cumbria.... forgot his name.. but I do remmeber he had a gun licence anyway so yea that puts a small boot up the ass of that theory, like you say where there is a will.... Also on the boot up the ass point our population is a lot smaller, our society is a lot different (i think you have a lot more race, religion and isssues in general over there - no offense meant and ive never been to U.S so i could be wrong).

Anyway this gun control thing its an awfully difficult thing to pass judgement on - plus your laws are state to state and bla bla, itd be a lot different over there anyway. I dont think the UK and what we do is comparable to US.

Not sure what point you're making. My point was that in the UK it's not as easy to get a gun as it is in the US, generally speaking and, while you may have lower incidences of gun crimes, you have very high incidences of violent crime.

Your gun crimes may be on the rise because handguns are more widely available?

[SammiValentine]

Not sure what point you're making. My point was that in the UK it's not as easy to get a gun as it is in the US, generally speaking and, while you may have lower incidences of gun crimes, you have very high incidences of violent crime.

Your gun crimes may be on the rise because handguns are more widely available?

My point was our gun crime does continue to rise regardless of laws and licences, it was in response to "where there is a will..." (its all gang related) . Correct its more difficult, we (regualr folks) cant just walk in a shop and buy a gun, but if you do really want a gun you only need to speak to the right person who knows a person and you can get a gun - they are not that hard to get hold if you want to get one.

Why do we have high violent crime and less gun stuff? Different society as others have said, we are both very fucked up places in our own special way :)

[SammiValentine]

oh yea, after reding what I put (long night lol), my point was the last few words. I dont think the UK and US are comparable like thism with crime stats, chalk and cheese... apples and oranges as you guys say,..

[Stavros]

I think the point about guns and the specifics of this crime, are the law in Florida and how it can appear to work in favour of the person shooting someone dead. When the facts in this case are finally settled -and I still don't know exactly what happened- the issues that will be -or should be on the agenda, are the way in which the police responded to the incident, and the 'Stand your ground' law, whose precise meaning has been contested here by at least one Florida BM. Guns have always been available in the UK, from the notorious case of Derek Bentley who was executed for the shooting of a policeman in greater London (Croydon) in 1953 to Mark Duggan in Tottenham last year; some have come out of the armed forces, others from eastern Europe -as Sammi says if you really want a gun it doesn't take too much effort to get one. If there is a slightly similar case in the UK as far as the police response is concerned, it is actually the murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence, where the police were given vital information on the attackers within 24 hours of the event, but did nothing for two weeks.

[SammiValentine]

I think the point about guns and the specifics of this crime, are the law in Florida and how it can appear to work in favour of the person shooting someone dead. When the facts in this case are finally settled -and I still don't know exactly what happened- the issues that will be -or should be on the agenda, are the way in which the police responded to the incident, and the 'Stand your ground' law, whose precise meaning has been contested here by at least one Florida BM. Guns have always been available in the UK, from the notorious case of Derek Bentley who was executed for the shooting of a policeman in greater London (Croydon) in 1953 to Mark Duggan in Tottenham last year; some have come out of the armed forces, others from eastern Europe -as Sammi says if you really want a gun it doesn't take too much effort to get one. If there is a slightly similar case in the UK as far as the police response is concerned, it is actually the murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence, where the police were given vital information on the attackers within 24 hours of the event, but did nothing for two weeks.

Didnt that case finally get resolved recently (they went down, racist twats).. how many years later?

[giovanni_hotel]

Zimmerman attacked Martin now? That must be realllllyyyy brand new news. And, I just thought he was only following him. By the way, Scott pulled out a gun and told them to freeze. He went out of his way to engage would-be thieves even though he knew that his girlfriend called the police about a group of teens breaking into a neighbor's car. He left his house to be a police officer. Sounds familiar..no?

The state of New York wanted to charge Scott with murder; however, a grand jury recommended him to be charged with manslaughter. A jury acquitted him. If Scott can get off, so can Zimmerman if he even goes to trial.

They are so far from being the same.
The difference is Trayvon Martin was committing NO CRIME. He was walking back to his father's condo, a capital offense for a colored boy, apparently.
The love this asshole gets from randoms is unbelievable.

[chromeheart44m]

is this going to be like the oj case where people align themselves by race ? scary we have not progressed much. hypothethical here if zimmerman was following trayvon but trayvon decided to attack zimmerman I still believe zimmerman might be the aggressor,he had the gun trayvonn was unarmed if they fought and trayvon was kicking his ass zimmerman does not have the right to shoot after basically starting the altercation imho.:confused:

[loren]

hypothethical here if zimmerman was following trayvon but trayvon decided to attack zimmerman I still believe zimmerman might be the aggressor

At the same time; if Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon and was on his way back to his vehicle, and Trayvon attacked him. Is Zimmerman still the aggressor?

[giovanni_hotel]

At the same time; if Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon and was on his way back to his vehicle, and Trayvon attacked him. Is Zimmerman still the aggressor?

Your scenario falls under the possible but unlikely scenario.

I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman told this kid to 'chill out, I'm not gonna hurt you. I'm a part of the neighborhood watch and I wanted to talk to you because I've never seen you around here before,' and suddenly after the situation was defused, crazy nigger Trayvon attacked him.

That's why murdering the only other witness is so convenient.

Common sense is your best friend in cases like this.

[chromeheart44m]

i was just on fb and there is a bunch of support 4 zimmerman im shocked all we want is him 2 go 2 trial but the conservatives really hate this kid why?

[chromeheart44m]

At the same time; if Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon and was on his way back to his vehicle, and Trayvon attacked him. Is Zimmerman still the aggressor?
good quetion ? seems odd trayvon would attack unless he was drunk or on drugs and toxiccology would show that words may have been exchanged names called we may never know the truth:mad:

[Stavros]

Didnt that case finally get resolved recently (they went down, racist twats).. how many years later?

Lawrence was murdered in 1993; two of the gang members have been sent down, but the police insist that the others will also face the music at some point although the evidence by now is slipping away. The argument is that at the time the lead detective in the investigation was in cahoots with the father of one of the gang members (Norris) accused who was also a local crime lord, and that is why the investigation went nowhere for two weeks. The parents were known to Michael Howard who around that time became leader of the Conservative Party, Neville Lawrence had done some work for him; they just wouldn't let go and Doreen I believe will not rest until the rest of the gang are put on trial -again in the case of the Acourt brothers. Whether any of this actually happens I cannot say.

The suspicion is that there are times when the police do not investigate crimes against black people with the same urgency as they do white people, which is where the Lawrence case may have congruence with the Florida case.

[loren]

Your scenario falls under the possible but unlikely scenario.

I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman told this kid to 'chill out, I'm not gonna hurt you. I'm a part of the neighborhood watch and I wanted to talk to you because I've never seen you around here before,' and suddenly after the situation was defused, crazy nigger Trayvon attacked him.

That's why murdering the only other witness is so convenient.

Common sense is your best friend in cases like this.
Considering that not all the details are known, more stuff comes out every day, it is impossible to say what really happened.

[ed_jaxon]

I only have one question. Why should Zimmerman not have to prove his innocence?

[giovanni_hotel]

Have you ever turned down the temperature on a potential physical altercation?? I have.
And I've been told after the fact IF I had fought said individual, he was prepared to do more than just 'throw fists'.

Zimmerman was the one who was in COMPLETE CONTROL of that situation from the minute he spotted a 'suspicious' looking BM walking through that gated housing complex.

It defies logic to believe that if Zimmerman had approached Trayvon like an ADULT, told him his name and WHY he had approached him, that no one would be dead today.

For instance as a BM whenever I go into a department store, within minutes a salesperson is on my ass asking, 'can I help you find something?' :)

Notice she didn't say to me, 'Hey Black, I'm watching you. Better not try to boost a shirt or pair of jeans 'cause I KNOW you people steal.'

There's something to be said for tact, finesse and nuance.

IMO Zimmerman is a punk and approached Trayvon like the bitch he is and started talking to him like he didn't have a right to be where he was.

That works if you're a cop, but doesn't go over so well when you look like some chubby asshole with mouse-balls.

BTW, following someone at night and then getting out of your vehicle, running them down and saying, 'what are you doing here?' sounds similar to how gangbangers roll up on dudes not affiliated who are in their 'hood.

A hispanic man with a shaved head in a red jacket starting some beef with you over NOTHING?? TO me I would have thought Zimmerman was gangbanging.

Yes I would have fought his ass too.

[loren]

I only have one question. Why should Zimmerman not have to prove his innocence?The law might be different in Florida. Where I live, if I had to shoot an attacker in public (on a sidewalk, in a parking lot, etc) I would have to prove that I was in danger. However, if it were a home invasion scenario the danger would be assumed and it would be up to the prosecution (if they so choose) to prove that I was not in danger.

[notdrunk]

They are so far from being the same.
The difference is Trayvon Martin was committing NO CRIME. He was walking back to his father's condo, a capital offense for a colored boy, apparently.
The love this asshole gets from randoms is unbelievable.

The crime was a property crime and he wasn't in danger. He created the shooting just like Zimmerman. My point is that people are screaming that Zimmerman should be thrown out in jail; however, there are cases out there in which are similar and the shooter was found not guilty. I am just sitting back and watching this mess. Yes, in my opinion, this whole situation is a mess from the shooting (i.e., what exactly caused Zimmerman to shoot Martin?) and how certain media entities are covering the story (i.e., NBC selectively editing the 911 call).

[ed_jaxon]

The laws are supposed to protect our rights, right?

There are too many examples of the law trampling on the rights some because others in power felt they had the right to skew the situation in their favor.

You cannot tell me that you do not believe Zimmerman's father was the first person called when his son was brought in and that he did everything within his power to save his kid.

The situation with Trayvon and Zimmerman was tragic but we deal with situations like that every day. If you are a person of color you kind of expect it.

This looks like a massive Police department/judicial cover up with authorities doing everything to cover their asses.

[giovanni_hotel]

The crime was a property crime and he wasn't in danger. He created the shooting just like Zimmerman. My point is that people are screaming that Zimmerman should be thrown out in jail; however, there are cases out there in which are similar and the shooter was found not guilty. I am just sitting back and watching this mess. Yes, in my opinion, this whole situation is a mess from the shooting (i.e., what exactly caused Zimmerman to shoot Martin?) and how certain media entities are covering the story (i.e., NBC selectively editing the 911 call).

THe shooter in the case you mentioned watched as a crime was being committed on the street. Zimmerman assumed criminality on the part of Martin, the only 'evidence' existing inside his own troubled mind.
There are superficial similarities, but substantively they are nothing alike.

[buttslinger]

When Zimmerman is proven completely guilty, these same guys that are saying he's innocent will put some other "lawyer spin" on why this is something other than what it is.

[hippifried]

Zimmerman attacked Martin now? That must be realllllyyyy brand new news. And, I just thought he was only following him. By the way, Scott pulled out a gun and told them to freeze. He went out of his way to engage would-be thieves even though he knew that his girlfriend called the police about a group of teens breaking into a neighbor's car. He left his house to be a police officer. Sounds familiar..no?

The state of New York wanted to charge Scott with murder; however, a grand jury recommended him to be charged with manslaughter. A jury acquitted him. If Scott can get off, so can Zimmerman if he even goes to trial.
Yes, Zimmerman attacked. Then, not now. This isn't new. It's on the 911 recording. He didn't just follow. He closed, over a distance of what, 100 yards? Stalking & closing is an assault. Assail means "to toward" (v). You don't need physical contact to be a threat, & the threat is the assault. All Martin ever saw was some asshole coming after him. I the "stand your ground" rule is to apply here, then it should apply to the actions of Martin, not Zimmerman. The kid was almost home. I don't know what was going on in either head, but Martin actually did the right thing by standing his ground. If he'd kicked in the afterburners & made it in his door, then the mugger would have known where he lived & become a threat to his family too. Of course it didn't work out well for him because his assailant was armed. Since Martuin wasn't a criminal, he had no reason to think that Zimmerman was anything but a criminal.

Scott was actually thwarting a crime in progress. He was clear about the fact that he was armed. He didn't pursue. Cervini was crazy enough to charge a gun, making him even more dangerous.

[trish]

If you're being followed by a man with a gun, and if he's closing the distance between you and him...even after you tried picking up your pace to increase that distance, then according to the stand your fucking ground laws you have every right in the world to defend yourself...even if you don't have a gun to do it with...even if all you have is your firsts, feet and a box of skittles. Whether Trayvor actually ever stood his ground is not yet known. But what is known is that Zimmerman is the antagonist here. That is clear from the 911 call. He needs to be prosecuted. He needs to be given his "day" in court.

It's call the Stand Your Ground Law, not the Advance Your Ground And Press Your Advantage Law.

[EvonRose]

If you're being followed by a man with a gun, and if he's closing the distance between you and him...even after you tried picking up your pace to increase that distance, then according to the stand your fucking ground laws you have every right in the world to defend yourself...even if you don't have a gun to do it with...even if all you have is your firsts, feet and a box of skittles. Whether Trayvor actually ever stood his ground is not yet known. But what is known is that Zimmerman is the antagonist here. That is clear from the 911 call. He needs to be prosecuted. He needs to be given his "day" in court.

It's call the Stand Your Ground Law, not the Advance Your Ground And Press Your Advantage Law.

I agree!!

Autopsy shows that treyvon had no injuries either from physically defending himself or assaulting Zimmerman...

This led me to believe he was just shot point blank.

[mildcigar_2001]

I agree!!

Autopsy shows that treyvon had no injuries either from physically defending himself or assaulting Zimmerman...

This led me to believe he was just shot point blank.

Please explain the injuries to Zimmerman. It appears that Zimmerman was not doing a good job of fighting since he ended up with the injuries. I think it is interesting is that before any of us knew the facts that Zimmerman was branded a racist and therefore Treyvon must be an angel. It is too bad the kid got shot, but it appears Zimmerman was getting beat down by the kid, and shot the kid to defend himself.

How would Treyvon get injuries by beating the crap out of Zimmerman? The black kid thought he had an easy target (a middle aged half-white guy). Have they found violent rhetoric or Zimmerman's twitter account? However they have found tweets on Treyvon's twitter account encouraging physical violence. One seems like a punk and one seems like someone trying to deter crime in their neighborhood.

It is just interesting that the black community activists ignore the much larger problem of black on black crime. Why no marches? Are the blacks killed by other blacks any less of a human being? No one want's to talk about the violent subculture that glorifies violence. Is it white musicians that songs are full of violence, and then looked to as the community as roll models. It seems this subculture is so screwed up that it has to scapegoat anyone else but themselves.

[trish]

Often there's not enough evidence to charge one gang member with the murder another; but now murderers outright confess and claim self-defense invoking the Stand Your Ground Laws which these days is used to justify one shoot-out after another. The NRA written and sponsored laws are aggravating both types of murders; the vigilantes who stalk innocent black kids (admittedly not a big problem, if you're not black) and black on black gang murders. I do find it "interesting" that mildcigar seems to think we should all just drop the Trayvon matter and look in the other direction. Start another thread, if you want to discuss black on black violence. This thread is about the shooting of Trayvon Martin and it's connection to racial profiling, the stand your ground laws and perhaps the wild proliferation of pro-gun legislation. Anything else is just a weak attempt to hijack the thread and put a stop to the current discussion.

[mildcigar_2001]

Often there's not enough evidence to charge one gang member with the murder another; but now murderers outright confess and claim self-defense invoking the Stand Your Ground Laws which these days is used to justify one shoot-out after another. The NRA written and sponsored laws are aggravating both types of murders; the vigilantes who stalk innocent black kids (admittedly not a big problem, if you're not black) and black on black gang murders. I do find it "interesting" that mildcigar seems to think we should all just drop the Trayvon matter and look in the other direction. Start another thread, if you want to discuss black on black violence. This thread is about the shooting of Trayvon Martin and it's connection to racial profiling, the stand your ground laws and perhaps the wild proliferation of pro-gun legislation. Anything else is just a weak attempt to hijack the thread and put a stop to the current discussion.

It is very interesting that you are afraid to discuss the epidemic of black on black crime, and that most in the black community are also loathe to discuss it. If Pres. Obama or Al Sharpton were any type of leaders they would be trying to combat this epidemic. This is true whether or not you believe Trayvon to be an innocent.

Also, no one has ever explained to me why a seventeen year old minor was wandering around in a gated community (in which he did not live) during the middle of the night. Please explain. Other than he was looking to during some thugin.

[pimpdog]

Why would they wanna fix Black on Black violence ? They invested alot of CIA time is ruining black ghetto's(crack, OliverNorth ), and are making a fortune on locking people up.

[giovanni_hotel]

What does the epidemic of Black of Black crime, or White on White crime for that matter, have to do with this kid's murder??
Zimmerman is the one with an arrest record who assaulted a police officer, not Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one who's being charged before with beating his wife, not Trayvon.

Trayvon may not be an 'angel', but he's never been arrested before for assault, like Zimmerman has.

It's as if some people are trying to minimize this kid's murder by saying it's not a big deal because Black people are murdered in the hundreds every year by other Blacks.

That's a weak deflection tactic used by conservatives on TV and radio to avoid talking about the issue at hand.

[stephenward]

It is clear to me that if races were reversed (i.e. Zimmerman was black and Martin was white) that this case would have been handled very differently, regardless of Florida law. Justice may be blind, but sadly, police officers and prosecutors are not.

[trish]

It is very interesting that you are afraid to discuss the epidemic of black on black crime, and that most in the black community are also loathe to discuss it.Bullshit. Show me where I said I was afraid to discuss it. Show me where I said I wouldn't discuss it. Show me. But I won't discuss on the Girls with Bulges and thread, the I Like Them Flat Too thread nor in this thread. Get it??? You want to discuss an entirely distinct topic, start a fuckin' thread for it.

[EvonRose]

Please explain the injuries to Zimmerman. It appears that Zimmerman was not doing a good job of fighting since he ended up with the injuries. I think it is interesting is that before any of us knew the facts that Zimmerman was branded a racist and therefore Treyvon must be an angel. It is too bad the kid got shot, but it appears Zimmerman was getting beat down by the kid, and shot the kid to defend himself.

How would Treyvon get injuries by beating the crap out of Zimmerman? The black kid thought he had an easy target (a middle aged half-white guy). Have they found violent rhetoric or Zimmerman's twitter account? However they have found tweets on Treyvon's twitter account encouraging physical violence. One seems like a punk and one seems like someone trying to deter crime in their neighborhood.

It is just interesting that the black community activists ignore the much larger problem of black on black crime. Why no marches? Are the blacks killed by other blacks any less of a human being? No one want's to talk about the violent subculture that glorifies violence. Is it white musicians that songs are full of violence, and then looked to as the community as roll models. It seems this subculture is so screwed up that it has to scapegoat anyone else but themselves.

Zimmerman was bleeding, so obviously if treyvon did that the extent of injury zimmerman had, treyvon would have blood on his shirt too with he didn't.

Also Treyvon was unarmed no weapon, zimmerman claimed he was punched but autopsy showed Treyvon had no knuckle injury, broken fingernails, skin lacerations, bruising, what so ever...

Zimmerman is half aged? since is mid 30's middle aged? As far as I'm concerned zimmerman had at lest 50 pounds on trayvon. He also had a gun, and treyvon did not. This kid got candy, and walked back home how is this even arguable? People now these days make me wonder....

A person twitter account does not prove one cannot commit a crime, a priest with no violent past can still molest a child. I

[EvonRose]

What does the epidemic of Black of Black crime, or White on White crime for that matter, have to do with this kid's murder??
Zimmerman is the one with an arrest record who assaulted a police officer, not Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one who's being charged before with beating his wife, not Trayvon.

Trayvon may not be an 'angel', but he's never been arrested before for assault, like Zimmerman has.

It's as if some people are trying to minimize this kid's murder by saying it's not a big deal because Black people are murdered in the hundreds every year by other Blacks.

That's a weak deflection tactic used by conservatives on TV and radio to avoid talking about the issue at hand.


Statistics show that white men are the highest percentage of child molestation, and serial killer... Should we not allow our kids to walk in a n all white neighborhood in fear of a white man molesting them?

There are racial stereotypes, but it doesn't mean its true.... A black person has any right to wear a hood on a rainy cold day and not be a hood rat...

If treyvon ahd shot zimmerman, no doubt in my mind he would have been sentenced to death already...

[mildcigar_2001]

Statistics show that white men are the highest percentage of child molestation, and serial killer... Should we not allow our kids to walk in a n all white neighborhood in fear of a white man molesting them?

There are racial stereotypes, but it doesn't mean its true.... A black person has any right to wear a hood on a rainy cold day and not be a hood rat...

If treyvon ahd shot zimmerman, no doubt in my mind he would have been sentenced to death already...

Some sterotypes are true. For example, I wouldn't let my children be around a Catholic Priest unsupervised. That scary white guy driving around your neighborhood in a van with the windows blacked out might be a child molester. A black guy (who doesn't live in your gated community) but is strolling around it is likely up to no good. I don't live in a gated community, but if I did I would expect that there would only be residents and their guests within said community and random people were not welcome.

The point I bring up about the black on black violence is that it is chiefly due to family breakdown within the black subculture (which in the last 20 years or so glorifiesy violence.

The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA, would serve their race much better if they addressed the endemic problem of violence within the black community. Why didn't hear the race hustlers like Al Sharpton speak up when Rhianna was beaten up or Michael Vick was arrested for dog fighting. Simply put, they care very little about the black community other than for their own political gain. These are the same people that tell us that blacks are as capable as anyone else, yet they demand affirmative action quotas, and every increasing amounts of welfare for no work; it doesn't matter if you don't have a job go ahead and have 5 different kids from five different ghetto bunnies. I'm sick of having to pay taxes to support these individuals.

[EvonRose]

Some sterotypes are true. For example, I wouldn't let my children be around a Catholic Priest unsupervised. That scary white guy driving around your neighborhood in a van with the windows blacked out might be a child molester. A black guy (who doesn't live in your gated community) but is strolling around it is likely up to no good. I don't live in a gated community, but if I did I would expect that there would only be residents and their guests within said community and random people were not welcome.

The point I bring up about the black on black violence is that it is chiefly due to family breakdown within the black subculture (which in the last 20 years or so glorifiesy violence.

The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA, would serve their race much better if they addressed the endemic problem of violence within the black community. Why didn't hear the race hustlers like Al Sharpton speak up when Rhianna was beaten up or Michael Vick was arrested for dog fighting. Simply put, they care very little about the black community other than for their own political gain. These are the same people that tell us that blacks are as capable as anyone else, yet they demand affirmative action quotas, and every increasing amounts of welfare for no work; it doesn't matter if you don't have a job go ahead and have 5 different kids from five different ghetto bunnies. I'm sick of having to pay taxes to support these individuals.

i get what your saying but just because a group of them seem that way, people also dotn see the successful blacks, or educate blacks.

Why can't you walk trough a neighborhood to get to your place, I have not heard the neighborhood being gated was it?

If you were to walk trough a rich neighborhood lets say beverly hills to get to point a to point b, what right does anyone to come to you and cause you of being a thug just cause your not wearing designer clothes?

To me its a really petty excuse to shoot a 17 year old, he was crazy! Zimmerman is a lunatic, crazy people should not be watching over neighborhoods or carrying guns!

[trish]

The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA...Nobody is trying to incite race riots in Florida. That is a red-herring invented to divert attention from the issues that gave rise to Trayvon shooting, namely racism and idiotic stand your ground laws. Why are you so afraid to discuss either of these issues?

[GrimFusion]

i get what your saying but just because a group of them seem that way, people also dotn see the successful blacks, or educate blacks.

Why can't you walk trough a neighborhood to get to your place, I have not heard the neighborhood being gated was it?

If you were to walk trough a rich neighborhood lets say beverly hills to get to point a to point b, what right does anyone to come to you and cause you of being a thug just cause your not wearing designer clothes?

To me its a really petty excuse to shoot a 17 year old, he was crazy! Zimmerman is a lunatic, crazy people should not be watching over neighborhoods or carrying guns!

Neighborhood watch patrols shouldn't be carrying guns. Unfortunately, so long as Zimmerman had a concealed weapon permit and a legal fire arm, he can carry a gun any time he wants; even during patrols. You're right, though. Neighborhood watch should NEVER be armed with lethal weapons. Their first responsibility is reporting crimes to the proper authorities, not intervening and attempting to stop criminals. That's why they aren't police.

Zimmerman got caught up in a fight or flight and picked the wrong one. I don't think this case has anything to do with racism necessarily; in other words, I highly doubt Zimmerman hates black people, but racial profiling and stereotypes are kinda racist, and the guy was caught following Trayvon around the neighborhood for hours, so who knows.

I do think Zimmerman should be found guilty of man slaughter. Trayvon was disabled and on the ground when he was shot a second time. That is NOT self defense.

[giovanni_hotel]

I didn't realize Zimmerman shot Trayvon TWICE. Hard to justify squeezing off two rounds in that kind of situation.

Zimmerman is the last person who should have been a part of any kind of neighborhood watch.

[GrimFusion]

I didn't realize Zimmerman shot Trayvon TWICE. Hard to justify squeezing off two rounds in that kind of situation.

Zimmerman is the last person who should have been a part of any kind of neighborhood watch.

I'm not sure that Zimmerman shot Treyvon twice. Neighbors report hearing one gun shot, Treyvon yelling "You got me!" and a second gun shot. Yeah, Zimmerman fucked up big time. He should have called suspicious activity in instead of following Treyvon around himself. He should have called the police instead of confronting the kid, and he definitely should have stopped shooting once Treyvon was disabled. Course, I don't think Treyvon ever actually fought with Zimmerman, and I doubt there was any need to disable him in the first place.

[Nicole Dupre]

A black guy (who doesn't live in your gated community) but is strolling around it is likely up to no good.LOL You're seriously an intellectual light weight if that makes sense to you. That's about the stupidest excuse for logic someone's run by this forum in years.

[Willie Escalade]

I guess I'd better not take a stroll on Rodeo Drive (the residential part) then!

[Stavros]

I am increasingy puzzled by the term 'neighbourhoods' -in Sanford I would ask what neighbourhood? I read somewhere that the residents in that gated community did not know most of their neighbours because foreclosures had forced some people to move and new people move in. How many of the people living in that gated community did Zimmerman know, and even if he knew half of them, how would he know if one resident was hosting visitors for the weekend whose son slipped out during a ball game to buy some snacks?

I don't know what the facts are in the case, as I have said before; now I am not even sure what the word neighbourhood means. How many of your neighbours where you live do you know other than maybe saying Hi when you pass on the street, if that?

[Nicole Dupre]

Some sterotypes are true. For example, I wouldn't let my children be around a Catholic Priest unsupervised. That scary white guy driving around your neighborhood in a van with the windows blacked out might be a child molester. A black guy (who doesn't live in your gated community) but is strolling around it is likely up to no good. I don't live in a gated community, but if I did I would expect that there would only be residents and their guests within said community and random people were not welcome.

The point I bring up about the black on black violence is that it is chiefly due to family breakdown within the black subculture (which in the last 20 years or so glorifiesy violence.

The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA, would serve their race much better if they addressed the endemic problem of violence within the black community. Why didn't hear the race hustlers like Al Sharpton speak up when Rhianna was beaten up or Michael Vick was arrested for dog fighting. Simply put, they care very little about the black community other than for their own political gain. These are the same people that tell us that blacks are as capable as anyone else, yet they demand affirmative action quotas, and every increasing amounts of welfare for no work; it doesn't matter if you don't have a job go ahead and have 5 different kids from five different ghetto bunnies. I'm sick of having to pay taxes to support these individuals.
I just want to add, I've actually lived in a gated community in FL, and it was in an area which included a few other gated communities. In between mine and the next one was a golf course and a country club. Black people certainly lived in the area. Seeing people walking to the center of town was not uncommon. And certainly kids walking to a convenience store for candy or some other junk food was nothing to raise an eyebrow over; nothing to take the law into one's own hands over and approach anyone wearing a hoodie, with a gun and a preconceived notion that you needed to follow them to see if they were engaging in criminal activity. In fact, can you guess who the scariest locals in that area were? They were the white trash dirt bags who were leaving KKK and skinhead propaganda pamphlets in the local shopping malls. Anyway, that's my perspective on gated communities in FL. I think it carries more weight than yours unless you lived in one for a few years.

Obviously you live with a fear and resentment of black people. You're making some pretty weak arguments. If you feel so disenfranchised and like you can't compete in the world, I'd blame rich white guys like maybe the Rockefellers or even the Koch brothers.

[EvonRose]

Neighborhood watch patrols shouldn't be carrying guns. Unfortunately, so long as Zimmerman had a concealed weapon permit and a legal fire arm, he can carry a gun any time he wants; even during patrols. You're right, though. Neighborhood watch should NEVER be armed with lethal weapons. Their first responsibility is reporting crimes to the proper authorities, not intervening and attempting to stop criminals. That's why they aren't police.

Zimmerman got caught up in a fight or flight and picked the wrong one. I don't think this case has anything to do with racism necessarily; in other words, I highly doubt Zimmerman hates black people, but racial profiling and stereotypes are kinda racist, and the guy was caught following Trayvon around the neighborhood for hours, so who knows.

I do think Zimmerman should be found guilty of man slaughter. Trayvon was disabled and on the ground when he was shot a second time. That is NOT self defense.

I agree, like I said in previous post they should limit the gun control, because zimmerman was crazy he had mental problems...

i don't thin it's racism, However it was racial profiling so maybe not racism to that extent. I agree..

I don't think Zimmerman should get manslaughter, I think he should get murder.

He could have stopped ask the kid a few question, or like you said called the cops which he did and they told him to stop following the kid, he didn't follow.

Being licensed, why didn't he ask questions first? Evidence has no proof Treyvon was a threat, he had no gun, or anything for the matter, he shot Treyvon because he said he looked like he had a weapon? That usually does not got too well with the courts. He is a child killer, he belong to the devil now and his soul will never find peace even if he doesn't go to jail.

[urbanchampion]

If Pres. Obama or Al Sharpton were any type of leaders they would be trying to combat this epidemic. This is true whether or not you believe Trayvon to be an innocent.


The President doesn't need to try to do something about this. That is not his job. He can make a statement about it, sure. But he has nothing to do about this.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are fucking jokes. They are worthless. All they do is get people upset and foaming at the god damn mouth (all types of people, white, black, etc). And this is coming from someone who IS black.

As someone who leans towards anarchic values (on some days moreso than others, depending on my mood), I will say this. Crime...gangs...hate groups...any and all types...CAN be drastically reduced if the people who are effected by it are no longer afraid and they have the avenue to work together to destroy it. We HONESTLY don't need to fully depend on authoritarian types like law enforcement or the government. You have problems with gangs like the Bloods and Crips that just seem to be a permanent fixture in some areas, you have problems with religious and ethnic hate groups that also seem to never go away like in Texas which has the highest number of racial/religious-based hate groups in the nation like Nazis and Christian Identity. Authoritarians obviously can't do shit about it because they're still there. There's a damn good chance that they really don't give a fuck and LET them exist. Reminds me of how they dragged their damned feet about handling the Mafia. The people (those who have to put up with them and live in fear) vastly outnumber the shit that infests their society, and they could easily do something about them (ranging from getting them arrested or simply killing them) but people's minds have been made so docile with meaningless, dumbing-down bullshit that it seems that they just don't care anymore. That, and the fact that the authoritarians have made it so that people have to depend on them so they can have some sense of half-assed pseudo-security. You have to play by the rules that THEY set down because if you don't you're considered just as fucked up as the trash ruining society. And WHERE is that getting us? I think you ALL know the answer to that.

[EZWind]

Some sterotypes are true. For example, I wouldn't let my children be around a Catholic Priest unsupervised. That scary white guy driving around your neighborhood in a van with the windows blacked out might be a child molester.

...well, ya got this much right for the most part


The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA, would serve their race much better if they addressed the endemic problem of violence within the black community. Why didn't hear the race hustlers like Al Sharpton speak up when Rhianna was beaten up or Michael Vick was arrested for dog fighting. Simply put, they care very little about the black community other than for their own political gain.

...nobody is trying to incite any race riots...the demonstrations have been very peaceful. Rev Al is neither a race hustler nor a politician, and in fact cares a great deal for the black community. There is nothing to be gained here by him personally, he's involved in this situation at the behest of the Martin family, who are asking for justice and due process. If it was Zimmerman layin there dead that would not be considered an unreasonable request in any way.



....yet they demand affirmative action quotas, and every increasing amounts of welfare for no work; it doesn't matter if you don't have a job go ahead and have 5 different kids from five different ghetto bunnies. I'm sick of having to pay taxes to support these individuals.

....it's a safe bet your precious tax dollars are supporting just as many white trailer trash welfare queens as black down there. Ya started out on the right foot there my friend, but the rest of your statement here displays a level of confusion that would indicate maybe you should cut back on your dosage of Rush Limpballs listening and OReally/Hannity viewing

[yodajazz]

Some sterotypes are true. For example, I wouldn't let my children be around a Catholic Priest unsupervised. That scary white guy driving around your neighborhood in a van with the windows blacked out might be a child molester. A black guy (who doesn't live in your gated community) but is strolling around it is likely up to no good. I don't live in a gated community, but if I did I would expect that there would only be residents and their guests within said community and random people were not welcome.

The point I bring up about the black on black violence is that it is chiefly due to family breakdown within the black subculture (which in the last 20 years or so glorifiesy violence.

The people that are trying to incite race riots in FLA, would serve their race much better if they addressed the endemic problem of violence within the black community. Why didn't hear the race hustlers like Al Sharpton speak up when Rhianna was beaten up or Michael Vick was arrested for dog fighting. Simply put, they care very little about the black community other than for their own political gain. These are the same people that tell us that blacks are as capable as anyone else, yet they demand affirmative action quotas, and every increasing amounts of welfare for no work; it doesn't matter if you don't have a job go ahead and have 5 different kids from five different ghetto bunnies. I'm sick of having to pay taxes to support these individuals.

I lost a long post, in reply to the 'affirmative action' part of this post. My main point was that people who complain about it, dont understand recent history, or how life works. White have had 'affirmative action' since the nation was founded, and continue to have it to this day, as new job requirements are stilled being raised that put Blacks at an unfair disadvantage.

You complain about paying taxes. But I would bet that at some point in recent history your current job, education or job training excluded minorities, overtly. Most people understand that life is not fair. But affirmative action is one of those legal remedies that tries to level the playing field.

If Trayvon Martin, could not even walk to the store, without being killed, do you think that a business in that community would have hired him for a job, over a White kid who grew up in that community?

[hippifried]

If you feel so disenfranchised and like you can't compete in the world, I'd blame rich white guys like maybe the Rockefellers or even the Koch brothers.
So now we can add heresy to your list of sins?

[Nicole Dupre]

So now we can add heresy to your list of sins?
Of course. That's one of my favorites.

[onmyknees]

I just want to add, I've actually lived in a gated community in FL, and it was in an area which included a few other gated communities. In between mine and the next one was a golf course and a country club. Black people certainly lived in the area. Seeing people walking to the center of town was not uncommon. And certainly kids walking to a convenience store for candy or some other junk food was nothing to raise an eyebrow over; nothing to take the law into one's own hands over and approach anyone wearing a hoodie, with a gun and a preconceived notion that you needed to follow them to see if they were engaging in criminal activity. In fact, can you guess who the scariest locals in that area were? They were the white trash dirt bags who were leaving KKK and skinhead propaganda pamphlets in the local shopping malls. Anyway, that's my perspective on gated communities in FL. I think it carries more weight than yours unless you lived in one for a few years.

Obviously you live with a fear and resentment of black people. You're making some pretty weak arguments. If you feel so disenfranchised and like you can't compete in the world, I'd blame rich white guys like maybe the Rockefellers or even the Koch brothers.


Ok...just to clarify please .....all the country's social ills....which Rockefeller are we blaming? Nelson? David? or perhaps Jay ? Or can we trace this back to John D and William ? All of the above? And what about the Rockefeller sisters? lmao

You're smart but that's a pretty drastic oversimplification.

[trish]

Ok...just to clarify please .....all the country's social ills... lmao

You're smart but that's a pretty drastic oversimplification.Ok...just to clarify: In your brain when Nicole discusses the racial and youth distributions in one particular gated community in Florida and speculates what is true there might be true in other gated communities in Florida she's talking about "all the country's social ills." lmao. That's just an overt misrepresentation of what another person said in order to what?...defend the hegemony of the wealth-elite?

[onmyknees]

Maybe read her post again. There's a paragraph break between her expierence on the gated communities she lived in and her assessment of feeling disenfranchised and the reasons for that. I took those to be 2 separate thoughts....maybe you didn't..........who cares? Why don't you comment on her thesis instead of commenting on my response? That would be more instructive...come on...we know you've been looking for this opening to go into your shtick about OWS and the 1%ers. lol

[yourdaddy]

A neighborhood watch patrol struck again in Sanford today. two black thugs beat a fifty year old white man nearly to death with hammers. This on top of the two-man neighborhood watch patrol that shot and killed two drunk British tourists who were lost and walked into their hood. The shooter was sentenced to life WOP last week.

Did any of you people hear anything in the press about either case...I doubt it.

[BigBlackMan]

A neighborhood watch patrol struck again in Sanford today. two black thugs beat a fifty year old white man nearly to death with hammers. This on top of the two-man neighborhood watch patrol that shot and killed two drunk British tourists who were lost and walked into their hood. The shooter was sentenced to life WOP last week.

Did any of you people hear anything in the press about either case...I doubt it.

Are they locked up? Yes they are

[yourdaddy]

They damn sure should be.

[trish]

They should be locked up and they are locked up. That's why they're not news. Now contrast with Zimmerman. Got it?? That's why Zimmerman IS news.

[Nicole Dupre]

Ok...just to clarify please .....all the country's social ills....which Rockefeller are we blaming? Nelson? David? or perhaps Jay ? Or can we trace this back to John D and William ? All of the above? And what about the Rockefeller sisters? lmao

You're smart but that's a pretty drastic oversimplification.
All social ills and disenfranchising people aren't quite the same thing, but I guess they might very well go hand in hand. The Rockefellers have quite a history of ruthless monopolistic practices. Or so you see them as model philanthropists?

And I don't know. Did the Rockefeller sisters control Standard Oil?

I'm talking about families like the Harrimans, the Dulleses, the Bushes, etc. You know.

[Nicole Dupre]

Maybe read her post again. There's a paragraph break between her expierence on the gated communities she lived in and her assessment of feeling disenfranchised and the reasons for that. I took those to be 2 separate thoughts....maybe you didn't..........who cares? Why don't you comment on her thesis instead of commenting on my response? That would be more instructive...come on...we know you've been looking for this opening to go into your shtick about OWS and the 1%ers. lol
?

I have no "thesis".

You want to talk "separate thoughts"? What was his thesis? That he feels disenfranchised due to things like affirmative action, so he's blaming Al Sharpton? That black people strolling around outside of gated communities are most likely up to no good? Well I'm sorry, but that's just insane. And Al Sharpton is just reacting to the same sketchy story of Zimmerman's that most people are, besides you dumb white trash guys.

Ask this "mild cigar" guy to make some sense. I was just giving him a reality check because the guy's obviously a raving lunatic. He can't blame Al Sharpton for him being a paranoid white trash loser. Sorry. Black people are most certainly allowed to wear hoodies and walk on public streets. And if that doesn't make perfect sense to you two jackasses, you're both pretty stupid.

[pimpdog]

lol@neighborhood watch shouldn't be carrying guns.

[nonnonnon]

everyone watches a little csi and become legal experts. have a little faith in the system

[natina]

TOP POST VERY IMPORTANT!


Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'?

Imagine. You're in a life or death struggle with someone you are desperately trying to kill with your bare hands. You have spent the last sixty seconds pummeling this person with your fists and bashing his head on the pavement. You notice he has a gun. You smile your evil, golden-toothed smile and say, "You are going to die tonight." The struggle continues, but this 250-lb. full grown, 28-year old man you have been grappling with for the last minute or so with your lanky, 17-year old, 160-lb. body, beating him with your fists, bashing his head over and over again, this intended murder victim you randomly chose to satisfy your mad, senseless, mindless, hatred of all White people, reaches into his holster, withdraws his 9mm and busts a cap in your chest. Right in the pump.
You look at the blood gushing from your chest wound, doing your best to keep any of it from splashing all over the person who just shot you. You make eye contact.
"You got me," you say, as you fall backwards. Dead.


Continue reading on Examiner.com Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'? - Baltimore liberal | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr41xmxv) http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr41xmxv

Continue reading on Examiner.com Bang! 'You got me!' Are they kidding? Trayvon's last words were 'You got me'? - Baltimore liberal | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr3tFB1X) http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me#ixzz1qr3tFB1X


http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bang-you-got-me-are-they-kidding-trayvon-s-last-words-were-you-got-me



http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/99/94/1333048856_beating.jpg

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.
Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.
The conclusions of Owen and another audio expert were first reported by the Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty)on Saturday.
Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense.
The 911 call, reposted in this YouTube clip (http://www.youtube.com/embed/XSFbdZRb0dc), came on the night of Feb. 26 from a woman who reported someone crying out for help in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
In the recording of her phone call, panicked cries and a gunshot are heard.

[hippifried]

everyone watches a little csi and become legal experts. have a little faith in the system

My argument in here has nothing to do with rich vs poor, any other lame attemppt at political interjection to change the subject, forensics, or racial profiling. I'm just trying to clarify the distinction between defense & aggression. That distinction's getting blurred more & more. It's obvious just by reading this thread. I don't want to see a time where self preservation ceases to be a viable defense. That's where we're headed with all this silliness. We're creating an amoral society in the name of political expedience. That's unacceptable.

As for "faith in the system", that went out the window a while ago. At least as far as this case is concerned. This incident happened a month ago or more. The local authorities had already shrugged it off. If the parents hadn't managed to turn this into a national cause celeb, that's where it would have stayed. It's hard to fault them for being pissed off. Sometimes this is what it takes to get the system to do its job.

Now I have a questioon on the details of the altercation. I've obnly heard pieces of the 911 recording, but it would seem that the phone was on throughout the whole incident, right up through the cries for help. How about the gunshots? Were they recorded? If so, what was the duration between them?

[Stavros]

A neighborhood watch patrol struck again in Sanford today. two black thugs beat a fifty year old white man nearly to death with hammers. This on top of the two-man neighborhood watch patrol that shot and killed two drunk British tourists who were lost and walked into their hood. The shooter was sentenced to life WOP last week.

Did any of you people hear anything in the press about either case...I doubt it.

The incident involving the two British tourists was of course widely covered here, the person responsible for the shooting, Shawn Tyson, was not part of a neighbourhood watch team but a 16-year old who had already been involved in a shooting incident and was only out of custody because of a foul-up in the Florida/Sarasota court system. Tyson acted alone but after boasting about what he had done, a friend of his testified against him in court.

Thw curious thing about yourdaddy's post, is that even when the facts, not disputed, are presented in court, we still get distortions, like the idea there were two people, it was a neighbourhgood watch team -what hope is there for 'the truth' about the Zimmerman-Martin case? One shot? Two Shots? A attacked B, B attacked A, and so on. Maybe it will never end, like the Kennedy Assassination, or who did kill Edina Watkins?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17540508

[EvonRose]

I cannot believe there are so many racist! Like I'm so disappointed actually, what person in his/her right mind would think its okay for this man to just cut this kid's life short, not only did he kill an innocent kid, he hurt his family, and friends, I always look at it from my point of view, no one deserves this! I don't care wether your a troubled kid, there is always room in life to improve and second chances, but that opportunity was taken from him by some guy, who has no respect for the law, and human life.

In my country, the father of this kid would have chopped zimmerman's head off with a machete already! Zimmerman is lucky the law still protects him to an extent, but I don't think it will last long. Hopefully lets see how compassionate people are, this would be a true test.

[yourdaddy]

Where are all the smart asses now who were ready to lynch Zimmerman and his parents and the Sanford police department?

Everything those rabble-rousing idiots Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were proclaiming has been disproven or soon will be.

Do you think there will be any apologies from the black community for the hate crimes perpetrated in Trayvon's name...Hell No !!!

This half-black idiot President and his half-black idiot Atty General need to start leading all Americans...not just African-Americans.

[TSPornFan]

Where are all the smart asses now who were ready to lynch Zimmerman and his parents and the Sanford police department?

Everything those rabble-rousing idiots Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were proclaiming has been disproven or soon will be.

Do you think there will be any apologies from the black community for the hate crimes perpetrated in Trayvon's name...Hell No !!!

This half-black idiot President and his half-black idiot Atty General need to start leading all Americans...not just African-Americans.

Rallys are not hate crimes. The African American community has not committed a crime. Protesting is a 1st amendment right.

Obama has been appealing to all races in America. He is working with all groups of people.

[mildcigar_2001]

Obama has been appealing to all races in America. He is working with all groups of people.[/QUOTE]

Where was Obama when two British youths were killed during a robbery attempt gone wrong, several months ago in Florida? Why does he only feel the need to speak up only if there is a supposed black victim?

Where was the discussion on HA about the racism inherent in the crime in which two whites were killed? Where were the marches from the NAACP.

If you go by the crime statistics whites are more often victimized by blacks; yet if you point this out you are branded a racist. If we really cared about the black community's youth then we would be attempting to be more aggressive in fighting and discussing black on black crime.

However, that would be politically incorrect, and Al Sharpton would get his race hustler panties in a twist. We should be talking about how the "great society" decimated the black family. Handouts have done far more harm to the black family than racism, and yet Obama wants to bankrupt the country giving more to people that work the least (least anyone think I am racist, I will stipulate there are plenty of white sponges as well as black).

[Willie Escalade]

BUT THOSE PERTRATORS WERE ARRESTED!!

It's the fact that someone killed another, yet he wasn't even detained. THAT'S what many are pissed about. Even if it was white-on-white I'd be pissed at that.

[yourdaddy]

BUT THOSE PERTRATORS WERE ARRESTED!!

It's the fact that someone killed another, yet he wasn't even detained. THAT'S what many are pissed about. Even if it was white-on-white I'd be pissed at that.


He was detained and released as shown when he was taken to the police department . They went by the book. The video of him being taken in is what shows the cuts on his head. I guess none of you saw that evidently.

People like seanchai only see what they want to see and read what they want to read.

[mildcigar_2001]

[QUOTE=Willie Escalade;1119788]BUT THOSE PERTRATORS WERE ARRESTED!!

Zimmerman was defending himself from an attack by Treyvon. It is a shame that Treyvon was killed, but he should not have attacked Zimmerman. I don't think either person's race had anything to do with this incident. I just hope Obama, Sharpton, et al are happy when there are race riots over this incident (from the nonviolent black community). My point as in prevous posts is I wish that the black community would take a inward look at its social pathologies that breed violent youth like Treyvon (if you don't believe me look at his twitter account postings).

[Uncletom16]

I hope there is a huge race riot and maybe if the riot ends the U.S will learn to practice what it preaches, I.e. freedom, democracy, justice for all.... You all know what I mean.

[Nicole Dupre]

[QUOTE=Willie Escalade;1119788]BUT THOSE PERTRATORS WERE ARRESTED!!

Zimmerman was defending himself from an attack by Treyvon. It is a shame that Treyvon was killed, but he should not have attacked Zimmerman. I don't think either person's race had anything to do with this incident. I just hope Obama, Sharpton, et al are happy when there are race riots over this incident (from the nonviolent black community). My point as in prevous posts is I wish that the black community would take a inward look at its social pathologies that breed violent youth like Treyvon (if you don't believe me look at his twitter account postings).
How do you know he attacked Zimmerman? How do you know he was "bred to be violent"? Where do you come up with shit?

[trish]

He was detained and released as shown when he was taken to the police department . They went by the book. That's the trouble here. The book is fuck-assed-backwards. The stand-your-ground-law is a ridiculous, dangerous and irresponsible piece of asinine boilerplate legislation from ALEC. Have you ever heard of one civilian shooting another dead minutes before the police arrive and the gun is not temporarily confiscated for lab analysis? Apparently in Florida it's against the law to stand your ground using your fists and your box of skittles, but it's A-OK to single out, hunt down and murder an unarmed kid whose guilty of being black---oops! I mean guilty of being a suspicious visitor to the neighborhood (wearing a hoodie, being black, talking on a cell phone and rattling a box of skittles). Before stand-your-ground Zimmerman would've been arrested, not simply detained, and the crime properly investigated. The law is an obstruction of justice and an declaration of open season on racial minorities.

This crime is more than half a year old. Florida tried to sit on this and they were nearly successful at keeping it permanently under wraps. It's not like this crime sparked flames of anger that were just waiting to ignite; rather people slowly became aware of the merits of the Martin's case, the travesty of justice that followed the shooting, the widespread adoption of the idiotic law (written by the NRA in boilerplate form) that let Zimmerman off the hook, and the obvious racial overtones of the shooting and coverup. All these things come together in this single case. That's why it's news.

[yourdaddy]

Nicole DuPre said " How do you know he attacked Zimmerman? How do you know he was "bred to be violent"? Where do you come up with shit? "

Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention Nicole. You can't be as dumb as you sound unless you sit in front of msnbc and do your makeup all day.

Trayvon was a thug wannabe. The rest of the world has read his twitter posts and saw the results of his attack on Zimmerman.

[giovanni_hotel]

He was detained and released as shown when he was taken to the police department . They went by the book. The video of him being taken in is what shows the cuts on his head. I guess none of you saw that evidently.

People like seanchai only see what they want to see and read what they want to read.


Zimmerman's brother said his bro was beaten within an inch of his life. But apparently his injuries were so minor that an ambulance was called off and the medical care Zimmerman received on scene from cops didn't require a single fucking BAND-AID.lol

If Sanford PD had gone 'by the book', they would have taken pics of the back of Zimmerman's head at the police station. Somehow if and when there's a trial, we'll find out that no such photos were ever taken(!), and if there were, we won't see any LIFE THREATENING injuries to the back of Zimmerman's dome.

If a guy is playing hoops at my gym and he lands hard on his head and gets up slightly disoriented, as a precaution he's sent to the hospital.

Zimmerman I guess is a quick healer since he never went to ER that night, yet still felt his life was threatened(?) in this horrific struggle that left him no option except to blow this kid away.

[Nicole Dupre]

Nicole DuPre said " How do you know he attacked Zimmerman? How do you know he was "bred to be violent"? Where do you come up with shit? "

Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention Nicole. You can't be as dumb as you sound unless you sit in front of msnbc and do your makeup all day.

Trayvon was a thug wannabe. The rest of the world has read his twitter posts and saw the results of his attack on Zimmerman.
Excuse me, but were you there?

And what does "bred for violence" mean exactly, genius?

[giovanni_hotel]

The guy who actually was ARRESTED for assaulting a PO and for hitting his wife is an 'innocent'.
THe kid with the spotless criminal record is a 'thug'.

Gotcha.

[buttslinger]

Are there 12 people in the U. S. who haven't made up their mind on this case?

[mildcigar_2001]

[quote=mildcigar_2001;1119810]
How do you know he attacked Zimmerman? How do you know he was "bred to be violent"? Where do you come up with shit?


I read his twitter feed:

“Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/#ixzz1rPQBR9J5

But I guess it is politically incorrect to mention that.

[giovanni_hotel]

Well in that case Zimmerman should have emptied his clip into Trayvon.
How dare a teenager talk shit to his boyz on the interwebz.

Those twitter feeds are alleged to have been Trayvons, not confirmed. THe DC isn't the most 'objective' news source on the internet.

Too bad Trayvon forgot to bring his uzi and machete with him on his walk back home from 7-Eleven. At least it would have been a fair fight.smh.

At this point I don't care anyway.
Zimmerman is a dead man in South Florida.

At least if he's arrested, he'll have the benefit of police protection.

[buttslinger]

So, let's add up the charges: He talks shit on the internet with his friends, he wears a hoodie late at night, he smokes herb, he's late for school, he swings on a dude that's stalking him.

[mildcigar_2001]

Well in that case Zimmerman should have emptied his clip into Trayvon.
How dare a teenager talk shit to his boyz on the interwebz.

Those twitter feeds are alleged to have been Trayvons, not confirmed. THe DC isn't the most 'objective' news source on the internet.

Too bad Trayvon forgot to bring his uzi and machete with him on his walk back home from 7-Eleven. At least it would have been a fair fight.smh.

At this point I don't care anyway.
Zimmerman is a dead man in South Florida.

At least if he's arrested, he'll have the benefit of police protection.


I think the above post underscores my point about social pathologies that run rampant in the black community. The poster is advocating mob violence against someone and thinks nothing of it.

Mark my words that this whole episode is going to backfire against the race hustlers, the black community in general, and Obama in particular. Just see what a race riot in FL does to Obama's reelection chances. The President should never have got himself involved in this mess. It just shows that he has very little self control.

[giovanni_hotel]

So, let's add up the charges: He talks shit on the internet with his friends, he wears a hoodie late at night, he smokes herb, he's late for school, he swings on a dude that's stalking him.

.......equals the DEATH PENALTY, because a fatass punk starts some bullshit he can't finish and is a purebred pussy.

Back in the day, if a dude pulled a gun basically for no reason in a fight he went looking for and there were witnesses to this nonsense, if he didn't get arrested he would have been beat down or worse.

[chromeheart44m]

cigar is a dumb ass what about all you redneck crackers perpetuating violence before and after Obama was elected and wob by a landslide majority. they called the potus a coon. left death threats militias were started ket you overlook this to state your racist views I am white and am disqusted by you and your ilk. there are murderers and psychos and criminals of all races and sexes.to your point there was a black woman beat 2 death by a hammer recently by a crazed white man, did not really make news guess why the man was arrested soon after the assault & is going to trial >how do you lie with yourself I hope one of your kids marries another race (you finish the thought you )fucking joke!!!!

[mildcigar_2001]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1119855].......equals the DEATH PENALTY, because a fatass punk starts some bullshit he can't finish and is a purebred pussy.


I think you have it backwards. It appears that Treyvon was the punk who couldn't finish what he started.

[Merkurie]

So, let's add up the charges: He talks shit on the internet with his friends, he wears a hoodie late at night, he smokes herb, he's late for school, he swings on a dude that's stalking him.

Sounds like any red blooded American teenager.

[giovanni_hotel]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1119855].......equals the DEATH PENALTY, because a fatass punk starts some bullshit he can't finish and is a purebred pussy.


I think you have it backwards. It appears that Treyvon was the punk who couldn't finish what he started.

Nope, the only pussy in this case is the one still in hiding although allegedly he's innocent.lol

Unless Trayvon was following behind Zimmerman on foot while he was still in his car.

Either way, Zimmerman is found not guilty and gets gunned down some random evening by who knows who, or, he ends up in prison getting his colon re-arranged daily without lube.

His life from here on out is fucked.
Couldn't happen to a better asshole.:whistle:

[chromeheart44m]

[quote=mildcigar_2001;1119866]

Nope, the only pussy in this case is the one still in hiding although allegedly he's innocent.lol

Unless Trayvon was following behind Zimmerman on foot while he was still in his car.

Either way, Zimmerman is found not guilty and gets gunned down some random evening by who knows who, or, he ends up in prison getting his colon re-arranged daily without lube.

His life from here on out is fucked.
Couldn't happen to a better asshole.:whistle: except maybe mild cigar

[buds]

Just curious. How many presidents in the past ever said anything about a crime let alone picked a side before the investigation was completed?

[buttslinger]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1119855].......
It appears that Treyvon was the punk who couldn't finish what he started.

For the one hundreth time he was walking to his aunt's house. The only reason this case is getting the attention it's getting is because the police tried to bury it.

[giovanni_hotel]

Just curious. How many presidents in the past ever said anything about a crime let alone picked a side before the investigation was completed?

The POTUS offered his condolences to the victim's family. SYG is an idiotic law. In most states including the nation's capital, when you admit to murdering someone who's unarmed, you have to plead your innocence before a judge and make your case before a jury of your peers.

Most pussies don't get to go home the same night and sleep in their beds after crying to cops that a seventeen year old gave them a bloody nose in a fight they instigated and then cry , 'self defense'.

[robertlouis]

[quote=mildcigar_2001;1119866]

For the one hundreth time he was walking to his aunt's house. The only reason this case is getting the attention it's getting is because the police tried to bury it.

Yep. It wasn't till I read a an article in today's Guardian that I discovered that the events took place six months ago, and that if it hadn't been for the Martin family's search for justice, it would have been lost in the Florida police files a long time ago. Eerie parallels with the Stephen Lawrence case in the UK back in the 90s.

[chromeheart44m]

Just curious. How many presidents in the past ever said anything about a crime let alone picked a side before the investigation was completed?
as was stated b4 the potussaid there needs tobe an investigation and that his son would look like trayvon read it verbatim then repost your question!

[buds]

[quote=buttslinger;1119882]

Yep. It wasn't till I read a an article in today's Guardian that I discovered that the events took place six months ago,.


it was this year 2/26/12

[mildcigar_2001]

[quote=buttslinger;1119882]

Yep. It wasn't till I read a an article in today's Guardian that I discovered that the events took place six months ago, and that if it hadn't been for the Martin family's search for justice, it would have been lost in the Florida police files a long time ago. Eerie parallels with the Stephen Lawrence case in the UK back in the 90s.

If you are going to jump into a debate at least get your key facts straight. Treyvon died Feb. 26, 2012 (which is a little over a month ago). If this case parallels anything it is the Duke rape case.

[buttslinger]

[QUOTE=mildcigar_2001;1119901][quote=robertlouis;1119897]Treyvon died Feb. 26, 2012 QUOTE]

Give me ONE reason why in the United States of America you follow or detain someone walking to their aunt's house.

[chromeheart44m]

[quote=robertlouis;1119897]

If you are going to jump into a debate at least get your key facts straight. Treyvon died Feb. 26, 2012 (which is a little over a month ago). If this case parallels anything it is the Duke rape case.

what it resembles is the susan smith case

[amberskyi]

[quote=Nicole Dupre;1119814]


I read his twitter feed:

“Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/#ixzz1rPQBR9J5

But I guess it is politically incorrect to mention that.

since when does talking shit online makes one a harden,violent criminal??? if thats the case than all of us on this forum deserve to locked up or gunned down.
i was trying really hard to ignore this thread because i knew how much of an emotionally charged and controversial subject this is (my boyfriend and i had an all out war on account of it lol). in my opinion (and the opinion of any logical person) the facts speak for themselves regardless of the race issues.
there were several mistakes made by both zimmerman and the justice department that warrants an investigation. as a member of the neighborhood watch zimmerman wasnt supposed to carry firearms nor actively confront any suspicions persons or situations. when he called 911 the emergency operator also told him to not purse the young man. even if trayvon attacked zimmerman first is that really a wrong reaction?? some guy is following you in his truck at night,hops out and confronts you with a gun.i know my fight or flight response would be triggered and i would feel highly threatened.
its very interesting that people are like oh trayvon smoked weed,was suspended from school and talked shit online but lets totally over look zimmermans arrest for domestic abuse and assault of an officer.
im not saying zimmerman is a stone cold,racially motivated killer but for him to not even get a manslaughter charge is complete bullshit.

[robertlouis]

[quote=robertlouis;1119897]

If you are going to jump into a debate at least get your key facts straight. Treyvon died Feb. 26, 2012 (which is a little over a month ago). If this case parallels anything it is the Duke rape case.


Six weeks. My bad.

[Yvonne183]

I am not saying who is innocent and who is guilty in this incident but maybe after watching my link maybe then you might understand what might be inside of Zimmermans head.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/04/06/crowd-beats-strips-robs-tourist-on-st-patricks-day-incident-caught-on-camera/

I know the two incidents are completely different but what happens in Baltimore is not a one time isolated incident. These types of attacks are quite common but for the most part go unreported cause the city is a one(liberal) newspaper town that edits heavily the local news. Maybe if these attacks by black thugs were to get under control maybe white people wouldn't be thinking criminal when they see a black guy. The violence is a two way street, it has to stop at both ends.

And I keep hearing how the Florida case is different cause no one got arrested, well the same happens with black criminals as well, some times they don't get arrested either. We had a prosecutor here named Patrica Jessamy who was noted for not prosecuting crimes committed by black guys even though the police had overwhelming evidence,, it does happen the other way.There was a case here in Baltimore different but still had racial bias to it, where a Chinese guy was robbed and killed, they caught the guy dead to rights but the mostly black jury let him go free, and one of the black jurors said he couldn't convict a black guy, he couldn't see another black guy go to jail. So to say that injustice just occurs to black people is silly.

And I still say to anyone on this forum who doesn't believe in what I say, just come to Baltimore and spend three months of the hot summer in the ghetto part and let's see what you think about justice, racism and all the other social babble you talk of. I would especially love to see our British liberal posters on this forum come to Baltimore, wear a hidden camera and walk about the bad parts of the city,, this scenario would be quite interesting indeed, you'll get to see racism from a different perspective.

I just feel that people seem to choose which incidents that are more serious or more news worthy than others but I feel that all violent criminals should be dealt with.

[pimpdog]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latasha_Harlins what this case reminds me of.

[Yvonne183]

If one looks at the video link I put up you might se some similarities to what Zimmerman says.

On the video one guy punches the white guy and the back of his head hits the pavement That was just one guy who did the initial damage, the other thugs just robbed him. I wonder what would have happened if the white guy had a gun and shot the guy who hit him after he he hit the pavement. I know what would happen, Sharpton and his band of merry men would descend on Baltimore, Obama would add another son to his family and posters here would be writing for justice and how the white guy should die or go to jail for shooting a possibly unarmed thug. That might not be the case in the Florida shooting but one could see that it is possible that it could be the way it happened, how Zimmerman says it happened. Just think, what would happen if there was no video and the white guy in the Baltimore attack shot his attacker.

Another thing, would those other people in the video of the Baltimore attack say that the white guy was in the right if he shot the attacker or would they side with the black attacker?

[trish]

Six weeks. My bad. My bad too. So I'll revise my most appropriately.

"He was detained and released as shown when he was taken to the police department . They went by the book. "__yourdaddy.

That's the trouble here. The book is fuck-assed-backwards. The stand-your-ground-law is a ridiculous, dangerous and irresponsible piece of asinine boilerplate legislation from ALEC. Have you ever heard of one civilian shooting another dead minutes before the police arrive and the gun is not temporarily confiscated for lab analysis? Apparently in Florida it's against the law to stand your ground using your fists and your box of skittles, but it's A-OK to single out, hunt down and murder an unarmed kid whose guilty of being black---oops! I mean guilty of being a suspicious visitor to the neighborhood (wearing a hoodie, being black, talking on a cell phone and rattling a box of skittles). Before stand-your-ground Zimmerman would've been arrested, not simply detained, and the crime properly investigated. The law is an obstruction of justice and an declaration of open season on racial minorities.

The shooting happened on Feb 26, but it didn't really gather media momentum until about the second week of March. It's not like this crime sparked flames of anger that were just waiting to ignite; rather people slowly became aware of the merits of the Martin's case, the travesty of justice that followed the shooting, the widespread adoption of the idiotic law (written by the NRA in boilerplate form) that let Zimmerman off the hook, and the obvious racial overtones of the shooting and coverup. All these things come together in this single case. That's why it's news.

[Nicole Dupre]

I know exactly what the hardcore ghettos are like. We have some of the worst ghettos in the country right here in NJ, and it doesn't change my opinion about this case one bit. We can having ghetto pissing contests all day.

"Shoot First Regret Later" Camden, NJ Documentary Trailer [BUCK50ENT] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDSaN64VnS8)

I'm not sure why everyone feels compelled to use other situations to define this one incident. You don't need to live anywhere in particular to separate the facts from the speculation. If Zimmerman seemed justified, I'd applaud him. But he doesn't; not to me. Imo he whole thing stinks of bigotry and nepotism. It's SSDD for LE and the criminal justice system in Florida.

[buttslinger]

Vyonne, my two white friends got chased by a mob of black people on the grounds of the Washington Monument in DC, broad daylight, Human Kindness Day, and the black cop on a horse said "What in the hell are YOU doing here?
When Russtafa talks about Muslims I know EXACTLY what he's saying without being there.
I tried to "Make light" about racism with my black neighbor and I witnessed first hand the pain on his face and in his voice. He wasn't some dumb jig, I guarantee you even the President of the United States remembers the first time he heard the word "nigger"
They say in the great American melting pot, black people didn't melt.

There is NO reason to follow or detain any kid walking to his aunts house. Unless you're prejudiced. You can't tail a black kid in Florida because of what some blacks did in Baltimore. Do black people do bad things? Yes. Should they get a pass cause they're black? NO.
Mildcigar can think whatever he wants (unfortunately) But he can't take justice in his own hands as an armed vigilante. That's a whole other thing.
Zimmerman's lawyers are going to try and blow this up into some big thing, but the second the 9-1-1 operator said stay in the car, he stopped being neighborhood watch and became a criminal. And when someone gets shot while in a criminal act, that's murder. This is what happens when fools carry guns.

[giovanni_hotel]

Vyonne, my two white friends got chased by a mob of black people on the grounds of the Washington Monument in DC, broad daylight, Human Kindness Day, and the black cop on a horse said "What in the hell are YOU doing here?
When Russtafa talks about Muslims I know EXACTLY what he's saying without being there.
I tried to "Make light" about racism with my black neighbor and I witnessed first hand the pain on his face and in his voice. He wasn't some dumb jig, I guarantee you even the President of the United States remembers the first time he heard the word "nigger"
They say in the great American melting pot, black people didn't melt.

There is NO reason to follow or detain any kid walking to his aunts house. Unless you're prejudiced. You can't tail a black kid in Florida because of what some blacks did in Baltimore. Do black people do bad things? Yes. Should they get a pass cause they're black? NO.
Mildcigar can think whatever he wants (unfortunately) But he can't take justice in his own hands as an armed vigilante. That's a whole other thing.
Zimmerman's lawyers are going to try and blow this up into some big thing, but the second the 9-1-1 operator said stay in the car, he stopped being neighborhood watch and became a criminal. And when someone gets shot while in a criminal act, that's murder. This is what happens when fools carry guns.

Agree with this post.

BTW, I live in D.C. and would love to know the circumstances that resulted in your White friends being chased by a group of Black teens in broad daylight( I assume the age).

YOu hear about things like that happening at night when there's not much security around, but I won't act like it never happens.
Hell tourists here get mugged here in downtown D.C. more than any major U.S. tourist destination.

[EvonRose]

I know exactly what the hardcore ghettos are like. We have some of the worst ghettos in the country right here in NJ, and it doesn't change my opinion about this case one bit. We can having ghetto pissing contests all day.

"Shoot First Regret Later" Camden, NJ Documentary Trailer [BUCK50ENT] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDSaN64VnS8)

I'm not sure why everyone feels compelled to use other situations to define this one incident. You don't need to live anywhere in particular to separate the facts from the speculation. If Zimmerman seemed justified, I'd applaud him. But he doesn't; not to me. Imo he whole thing stinks of bigotry and nepotism. It's SSDD for LE and the criminal justice system in Florida.

Lol your probably the most insightful person I know on here... No joke.

Can I add, to the forum basing of on Nicole, Ghetto comes in all forms, blacks did not create ghetto, there have been many ghetto's since the beginning of time, particularly the bohemian era, like in France, Romania, Italy, etc Ghetto is everywhere.

[buttslinger]

BTW, I live in D.C. and would love to know the circumstances that resulted in your White friends being chased by a group of Black teens in broad daylight( I assume the age).

I'm an old codger. Human Kindness Day. 1974???? Stevie Wonder. On the Mall. Free.
I was living with three other guys in a big house. Two of them went to meet up with some black friends from work. They were standing at the edge of the crowd, when one roomate noticed all the black people were looking at them with "blank stares" Next thing you know, it was a footrace. And my one friend who ran track in school, my other friend passed him!!!!
They didn't bet hurt, just scared.
In my whoring days when Marion Barry was Mayor, I got mugged a few times, being where I wasn't supposed to be. This was the crack/AIDS eighties. I GOT STORIES!!!!

[Yvonne183]

Vyonne, my two white friends got chased by a mob of black people on the grounds of the Washington Monument in DC, broad daylight, Human Kindness Day, and the black cop on a horse said "What in the hell are YOU doing here?
When Russtafa talks about Muslims I know EXACTLY what he's saying without being there.
I tried to "Make light" about racism with my black neighbor and I witnessed first hand the pain on his face and in his voice. He wasn't some dumb jig, I guarantee you even the President of the United States remembers the first time he heard the word "nigger"
They say in the great American melting pot, black people didn't melt.

There is NO reason to follow or detain any kid walking to his aunts house. Unless you're prejudiced. You can't tail a black kid in Florida because of what some blacks did in Baltimore. Do black people do bad things? Yes. Should they get a pass cause they're black? NO.
Mildcigar can think whatever he wants (unfortunately) But he can't take justice in his own hands as an armed vigilante. That's a whole other thing.
Zimmerman's lawyers are going to try and blow this up into some big thing, but the second the 9-1-1 operator said stay in the car, he stopped being neighborhood watch and became a criminal. And when someone gets shot while in a criminal act, that's murder. This is what happens when fools carry guns.

I understand what you are saying. I was not trying to say cause one group does something then it's OK for another group. I was just trying to say what I think might be in Zimmerman's head. I am not a citizen patrol person but I most certainly would cross the street or try to avoid a black guy walking down the same street, especially at night. Yes it might be racist but past experiences, videos like I posted and stories from other people make me cautious. I don't care if I offend anyone by crossing the street, I am not put in this world to please everyone's idea of life. Where I lived it's just common sense to be careful.

Again, Zimmerman was not just walking down the street as I was, he seemed to be on a mission but that is only from what I read so far. I was just trying in a way, why Zimmerman might have these prejudices or fears.

I also don't know all the facts. I also don't know what the law is about gated communities. Are gated communities similar in law to an apartment building. What I mean is if someone strange enters an apartment building is the doorman or some other person like a building super or block captain sort of person allowed to stop the person and question them, are they allowed to follow the individual in the apartment building. And does a gated community fall under the same rules/laws. That is if this even actually happened in the gated community, I don't really know personally the whole story. If the rules/laws are similar then it might be OK for Zimmerman(if he was a neighborhood watch guy) to follow the guy.

As far as shooting the guy, I can not say in this case cause I don't know what exactly happened, apparently Zimmerman seems to be the holder of the truth, if he tells it or not is something else. But if I was to be attacked by someone who is unarmed and they were to punch me like the guy in my vid did, then if I had a gun I would surely blow him away. I don't care about his life at all, he made the decision to die when he hit me.

I hope my post wasn't confusing Mr. Butt, can I call you Mr. Butt, sorry I had to say that. lol But I am just trying to put what could have been in the head of Zimmerman. And from talking to some older black people where I use to live, they had the same fears of young black guys as I did, maybe more so, cause I am able to move, they can't.

[amberskyi]

Agree with this post.

BTW, I live in D.C. and would love to know the circumstances that resulted in your White friends being chased by a group of Black teens in broad daylight( I assume the age).

YOu hear about things like that happening at night when there's not much security around, but I won't act like it never happens.
Hell tourists here get mugged here in downtown D.C. more than any major U.S. tourist destination.

Something similar almost happened to my boyfriend in NE but the guys stopped when I started crying....

[amberskyi]

I understand what you are saying. I was not trying to say cause one group does something then it's OK for another group. I was just trying to say what I think might be in Zimmerman's head. I am not a citizen patrol person but I most certainly would cross the street or try to avoid a black guy walking down the same street, especially at night. Yes it might be racist but past experiences, videos like I posted and stories from other people make me cautious. I don't care if I offend anyone by crossing the street, I am not put in this world to please everyone's idea of life. Where I lived it's just common sense to be careful.

Again, Zimmerman was not just walking down the street as I was, he seemed to be on a mission but that is only from what I read so far. I was just trying in a way, why Zimmerman might have these prejudices or fears.

I also don't know all the facts. I also don't know what the law is about gated communities. Are gated communities similar in law to an apartment building. What I mean is if someone strange enters an apartment building is the doorman or some other person like a building super or block captain sort of person allowed to stop the person and question them, are they allowed to follow the individual in the apartment building. And does a gated community fall under the same rules/laws. That is if this even actually happened in the gated community, I don't really know personally the whole story. If the rules/laws are similar then it might be OK for Zimmerman(if he was a neighborhood watch guy) to follow the guy.

As far as shooting the guy, I can not say in this case cause I don't know what exactly happened, apparently Zimmerman seems to be the holder of the truth, if he tells it or not is something else. But if I was to be attacked by someone who is unarmed and they were to punch me like the guy in my vid did, then if I had a gun I would surely blow him away. I don't care about his life at all, he made the decision to die when he hit me.

I hope my post wasn't confusing Mr. Butt, can I call you Mr. Butt, sorry I had to say that. lol But I am just trying to put what could have been in the head of Zimmerman. And from talking to some older black people where I use to live, they had the same fears of young black guys as I did, maybe more so, cause I am able to move, they can't.




being a young trans woman i have the same apprehensions about young black men.i would be a lie if i didnt say that i get nervous when i see a group of young black men of a certain disposition.there is a huge difference however with being a bit vigilant/watchful in case of trouble and what zimmerman did.he followed a teenage kid at night and confronted him with a gun against the advice of everyone.zimmerman escalated the situation to a completely absurd level.

[FreddieGomez]

where i live, if u see someone out of the ordinary,especially a white person ect..it's automatically assumed they're looking for drugs

[amberskyi]

where i live, if u see someone out of the ordinary,especially a white person ect..it's automatically assumed they're looking for drugs

dude you live in harlem which is becoming way more gentrified...you see white people all through there

[GroobySteven]

Can I add, to the forum basing of on Nicole, Ghetto comes in all forms, blacks did not create ghetto, there have been many ghetto's since the beginning of time, particularly the bohemian era, like in France, Romania, Italy, etc Ghetto is everywhere.

With all due respect (seriously) the word ghetto and it's usuage of the Jewish, or Polish, or Asian ghetto's of the past in European cities, was a word just to designate an area that was predominantly one race or group of people. There weren't the negative connocatations to how we apply to word now to inner-city run-down, poor and/or dangerous places.
Of course, poor and dangerous areas have been around since cities began but they weren't just one race or another.

[buttslinger]

I hope my post wasn't confusing Mr. Butt, can I call you Mr. Butt, sorry I had to say that. lol But I am just trying to put what could have been in the head of Zimmerman.

One time in DC I was so drunk I couldn't remember where I parked, and in a dark alley five black kids attacked me. Did I tell this story before? I went down on one hand and came up runnin'. Then I noticed I was chasing a kid. I went from scared to mad. He ran around a car and disappeared back into the dark alley. On the curb, beneath the streetlights, I screamed every demeaning racist slur I could think of into the black alley. When I ran out of things to say, I started repeating. When I was finished, I turned and noticed these four old black guys leaning against a nearby car.....Eyes wide open and jaws dropped...."Did they rob you?"
YEAH!!!!!!!
Yvonne, you can call me Butt, you can even call me Buttsy Whatsy..:kiss:
There are two sides to every story, that's why we have JUDGES. Zimmerman has his side, he was protecting his neighborhood from thieves. He was carrying a gun for self defense. If he was wearing a Police Uniform, Treyvon would have explained himself, if stopped, and that would have been it. Even if Treyvon had beaten and stripped that guy in Baltimore, flown down to Florida to cop 10 kilos of coke, there was no reason to follow him in his aunt's gated community. You're presumed innocent. Until proven guilty. That's the first thing Zimmerman should had learned.
If you put your hands on a cop, you're going DOWN. They don't consider what they do a sport. They beat Rodney King because cops die in high speed car chases. I used to be a drunk driver, I had to learn the hard way that ain't cool. I'm probably more like Zimmerman than Treyvon, in fact I know I am. But he fucked up and killed a guy, and there's gonna be guys following him in prison........well, that's a whole nother thread.

[Nicole Dupre]

where i live, if u see someone out of the ordinary,especially a white person ect..it's automatically assumed they're looking for drugs
That sounds like Washington Heights. lol

[urbanchampion]

This half-black idiot President and his half-black idiot Atty General need to start leading all Americans...not just African-Americans.

Where's the proof that Eric Holder is "half-black"? And if you really want to get technical about it most African-Americans are "half-black", more or less, due to the One Drop Rule from a long time ago, but it's still perpetuated today.


The guy who actually was ARRESTED for assaulting a PO and for hitting his wife is an 'innocent'.
THe kid with the spotless criminal record is a 'thug'.

Gotcha.


[quote=Nicole Dupre;1119814]


I read his twitter feed:

“Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/#ixzz1rPQBR9J5

But I guess it is politically incorrect to mention that.

No, it's not politically incorrect to mention that. But in the process of mentioning that, please also take the time to mention the fact that Zimmerman is the one who actually has as criminal history. Yet you want to point out what he said on Twitter and edit your post so you can attach a photo of him sticking his middle finger up? Don't be picky, bro.



I think the above post underscores my point about social pathologies that run rampant in the black community. The poster is advocating mob violence against someone and thinks nothing of it.

Mark my words that this whole episode is going to backfire against the race hustlers, the black community in general, and Obama in particular. Just see what a race riot in FL does to Obama's reelection chances. The President should never have got himself involved in this mess. It just shows that he has very little self control.

I'm black and I don't advocate any violence towards Zimmerman. It's a shame that some people are. I'm not sure if giovanni's HOPES Zimmerman is attacked by someone. But, something doesn't smell right. False information about what Zimmerman did has been put out there by the folks who know him personally and by the police. If this is the case, then someone is trying to cover up something. Otherwise, why this huge scramble? Therefore, if something bad happens to him, I really don't care. I wouldn't care if his death photos get exploited on rotten.com. I don't have remorse for those who are guilty of harming the innocent. But I will say that Obama shouldn't said that Treyvon would have looked like his son. The moment he said that I KNEW people would jump all over him for it. And they did. People on this forum, the white nationalist trolls on Youtube, and Newt Gingrich.



cigar is a dumb ass what about all you redneck crackers perpetuating violence before and after Obama was elected and wob by a landslide majority. they called the potus a coon. left death threats militias were started ket you overlook this to state your racist views I am white and am disqusted by you and your ilk. there are murderers and psychos and criminals of all races and sexes.to your point there was a black woman beat 2 death by a hammer recently by a crazed white man, did not really make news guess why the man was arrested soon after the assault & is going to trial >how do you lie with yourself I hope one of your kids marries another race (you finish the thought you )fucking joke!!!!

This rant was unnecessary. But it should be stated that, yes, there were a ton of vile comments about Obama just before and after he won the election. That was to be expected. But...these were also from politicians. The e-mail comments and racist images that several of them were sending to one another as jokes were revealed to the public and reveals a lot about the true feelings/nature of those so called "conservatives" who try to make it seem that only liberals are racists (yeah...I'm sure that Americans with views that lean towards anything like Nazis, KKK, and Aryans vote for liberals/Democrats). Also, remember that some Neo-Nazis had guns and were trying to reach the area where Obama was when he got elected. And speaking of guns, I'm sure everyone remembers the Tea Party protestors who decided to carry guns to places where Obama would be speaking as a way to apparently show him that they believe in their right to bear arms. I can tell you right how that a lot of those people were more intertested in being an asshole and trying to intimidate someone with a thug mentality wrapped in what they see as "conservatism" and patriotism. And I'm sure none of them had racist thoughts about Obama, right? Sure.



In most states including the nation's capital, when you admit to murdering someone who's unarmed, you have to plead your innocence before a judge and make your case before a jury of your peers.

Most pussies don't get to go home the same night and sleep in their beds after crying to cops that a seventeen year old gave them a bloody nose in a fight they instigated and then cry , 'self defense'.

This is true, yet it apparently didn't apply to Zimmerman.



I am not saying who is innocent and who is guilty in this incident but maybe after watching my link maybe then you might understand what might be inside of Zimmermans head.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/04/06/crowd-beats-strips-robs-tourist-on-st-patricks-day-incident-caught-on-camera/

I know the two incidents are completely different but what happens in Baltimore is not a one time isolated incident. These types of attacks are quite common but for the most part go unreported cause the city is a one(liberal) newspaper town that edits heavily the local news. Maybe if these attacks by black thugs were to get under control maybe white people wouldn't be thinking criminal when they see a black guy. The violence is a two way street, it has to stop at both ends.

And I keep hearing how the Florida case is different cause no one got arrested, well the same happens with black criminals as well, some times they don't get arrested either. We had a prosecutor here named Patrica Jessamy who was noted for not prosecuting crimes committed by black guys even though the police had overwhelming evidence,, it does happen the other way.There was a case here in Baltimore different but still had racial bias to it, where a Chinese guy was robbed and killed, they caught the guy dead to rights but the mostly black jury let him go free, and one of the black jurors said he couldn't convict a black guy, he couldn't see another black guy go to jail. So to say that injustice just occurs to black people is silly.

And I still say to anyone on this forum who doesn't believe in what I say, just come to Baltimore and spend three months of the hot summer in the ghetto part and let's see what you think about justice, racism and all the other social babble you talk of. I would especially love to see our British liberal posters on this forum come to Baltimore, wear a hidden camera and walk about the bad parts of the city,, this scenario would be quite interesting indeed, you'll get to see racism from a different perspective.

I just feel that people seem to choose which incidents that are more serious or more news worthy than others but I feel that all violent criminals should be dealt with.


This is true. Racism and hate works both ways. White/black/etc will try to downplay and nitpick and complain and cover something up when someone else goes after someone who is of the same race that they are, and it's not right.


If one looks at the video link I put up you might se some similarities to what Zimmerman says.

On the video one guy punches the white guy and the back of his head hits the pavement That was just one guy who did the initial damage, the other thugs just robbed him. I wonder what would have happened if the white guy had a gun and shot the guy who hit him after he he hit the pavement. I know what would happen, Sharpton and his band of merry men would descend on Baltimore, Obama would add another son to his family and posters here would be writing for justice and how the white guy should die or go to jail for shooting a possibly unarmed thug. That might not be the case in the Florida shooting but one could see that it is possible that it could be the way it happened, how Zimmerman says it happened. Just think, what would happen if there was no video and the white guy in the Baltimore attack shot his attacker.

Another thing, would those other people in the video of the Baltimore attack say that the white guy was in the right if he shot the attacker or would they side with the black attacker?

You're right, the Reverends would do just that. I, along with a lot of other African-Americans who can actually use their brain don't give a fuck what those two idiots say or do. And OF COURSE, the stereotypical, lowlife, idiot black thugs (they all fall under the category of that one forbidden word that shouldn't be repeated unless you are black because it then all of a sudden isn't degrading and offensive; remember what comedian Chris Rock had to say about black people and then THOSE types of people; much in the same way you have white people and then trash that just happens to be white) would be against the man for shooting in self-defense. And I said it before and I'll say it again. Obama shouldn't have said that statement about Treyvon. That was bad news.


I understand what you are saying. I was not trying to say cause one group does something then it's OK for another group. I was just trying to say what I think might be in Zimmerman's head. I am not a citizen patrol person but I most certainly would cross the street or try to avoid a black guy walking down the same street, especially at night. Yes it might be racist but past experiences, videos like I posted and stories from other people make me cautious. I don't care if I offend anyone by crossing the street, I am not put in this world to please everyone's idea of life. Where I lived it's just common sense to be careful.

Again, Zimmerman was not just walking down the street as I was, he seemed to be on a mission but that is only from what I read so far. I was just trying in a way, why Zimmerman might have these prejudices or fears.

I also don't know all the facts. I also don't know what the law is about gated communities. Are gated communities similar in law to an apartment building. What I mean is if someone strange enters an apartment building is the doorman or some other person like a building super or block captain sort of person allowed to stop the person and question them, are they allowed to follow the individual in the apartment building. And does a gated community fall under the same rules/laws. That is if this even actually happened in the gated community, I don't really know personally the whole story. If the rules/laws are similar then it might be OK for Zimmerman(if he was a neighborhood watch guy) to follow the guy.

As far as shooting the guy, I can not say in this case cause I don't know what exactly happened, apparently Zimmerman seems to be the holder of the truth, if he tells it or not is something else. But if I was to be attacked by someone who is unarmed and they were to punch me like the guy in my vid did, then if I had a gun I would surely blow him away. I don't care about his life at all, he made the decision to die when he hit me.

I hope my post wasn't confusing Mr. Butt, can I call you Mr. Butt, sorry I had to say that. lol But I am just trying to put what could have been in the head of Zimmerman. And from talking to some older black people where I use to live, they had the same fears of young black guys as I did, maybe more so, cause I am able to move, they can't.


being a young trans woman i have the same apprehensions about young black men.i would be a lie if i didnt say that i get nervous when i see a group of young black men of a certain disposition.

no, neither one of you are wrong for feeling that way. be honest. I've been honest with all of the comments I've made in this thread, even expressing some views that were anarchic and probably crazy sounding to a lot of you...which is probably why nobody responded to my comments because you probably think I'm crazy, and you have a right to think that about me. Anyway, being honest, I have the same damn feelings. My black family has the same damn feelings. I talk to my black friends in real life and on the internet about how something just isn't right and they agree. Something really is fucked up and it's controlling people. There are things going on in society that have ruined certain groups of people and brainwashed them into falling into certain categories. Those who are in control of the "system" want this to continue and they want it to get worse and worse and worse as possible, so they can keep people organized in neat little units while they continue to fuck us all in the ass like worthless objects. People are controlled and they dont even know it. And you BETTER not think differently, and you BETTER not "WAKE UP" because if you do you'll get labled as dangerous and a threat to society, even more so than those who are totally brainwashed. I can't remember the name of it right now, but a bill has been or will be passed by the government which will allow them to seriously crack down on people it deems as being a threat because they have views that are out of the mainstream. That can cover people from Black Panthers and other black radical groups, suspect Muslim groups, crazy Christian groups, Neo-Nazis and other white radical groups, the gun crazy militia people in the mountains of Idaho, all the way to people who are just fed up with the bullshit the system is doing and they're outspoken anarchists (who don't hurt people) and 3rd party voters who don't want Democrats or Republicans. Everyone on the "outside" (whether you're good or bad) gets lumped together with this bill. People need to wake the fuck up.

[EvonRose]

With all due respect (seriously) the word ghetto and it's usuage of the Jewish, or Polish, or Asian ghetto's of the past in European cities, was a word just to designate an area that was predominantly one race or group of people. There weren't the negative connocatations to how we apply to word now to inner-city run-down, poor and/or dangerous places.
Of course, poor and dangerous areas have been around since cities began but they weren't just one race or another.

It was a few example, my point was the black community did not create the term or lifestyle... it's been around.

Fuck my nail broke typing this! Its a sign that your evil...

[giovanni_hotel]

Yvonne, if you KILL a guy after he punches you, in most cases you're going to jail for manslaughter.

So kill all you want, just know that the law doesn't give you a pass to MURDER someone just because they hit you.

[hippifried]

If one looks at the video link I put up you might se some similarities to what Zimmerman says.

On the video one guy punches the white guy and the back of his head hits the pavement That was just one guy who did the initial damage, the other thugs just robbed him. I wonder what would have happened if the white guy had a gun and shot the guy who hit him after he he hit the pavement. I know what would happen, Sharpton and his band of merry men would descend on Baltimore, Obama would add another son to his family and posters here would be writing for justice and how the white guy should die or go to jail for shooting a possibly unarmed thug. That might not be the case in the Florida shooting but one could see that it is possible that it could be the way it happened, how Zimmerman says it happened. Just think, what would happen if there was no video and the white guy in the Baltimore attack shot his attacker.

Another thing, would those other people in the video of the Baltimore attack say that the white guy was in the right if he shot the attacker or would they side with the black attacker?
What makes you think the black dude was the attacker? That's not what the video shows. Now I don't know if there's more video that shows what happened prior, but the linked clip shows the black dude walking away & the green shirt pursuing him & closing from behind. That guy had to take a step foreward & spin around to throw the punch. The back of the green shirt blocks the view, so there's no way to tell if mister glass jaw laid a hand on the guy before he got cold cocked, but that shouldn't matter. He wasn't going to shoot anybody, because he was down for the count. What happened afterward is irrelevant to the question of who was attacking whom. Race has nothing to do with that. Sure you're not being blinded by preconceived assumptions?



That's the trouble here. The book is fuck-assed-backwards. The stand-your-ground-law is a ridiculous, dangerous and irresponsible piece of asinine boilerplate legislation from ALEC.
Maybe. I haven't read the law itself, but from what I can see, it seems to be misapplied or misunderstood more often than not.

[yodajazz]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latasha_Harlins what this case reminds me of.

Its been over twenty years, and I vaguely remember hearing about this case. But after reading about it, I can understand why the community was so incensed. Five years probation, community service, and a $500, from killing a 15 Black girl over an altercation over a bottle of orange juice. And the girl died with the money in her hand, strong evidence the girl had intended to pay for it. Thanks for the reminder about this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latasha_Harlins

[yodajazz]

My bad too. So I'll revise my most appropriately.

"He was detained and released as shown when he was taken to the police department . They went by the book. "__yourdaddy.

That's the trouble here. The book is fuck-assed-backwards. The stand-your-ground-law is a ridiculous, dangerous and irresponsible piece of asinine boilerplate legislation from ALEC. Have you ever heard of one civilian shooting another dead minutes before the police arrive and the gun is not temporarily confiscated for lab analysis? Apparently in Florida it's against the law to stand your ground using your fists and your box of skittles, but it's A-OK to single out, hunt down and murder an unarmed kid whose guilty of being black---oops! I mean guilty of being a suspicious visitor to the neighborhood (wearing a hoodie, being black, talking on a cell phone and rattling a box of skittles). Before stand-your-ground Zimmerman would've been arrested, not simply detained, and the crime properly investigated. The law is an obstruction of justice and an declaration of open season on racial minorities.

The shooting happened on Feb 26, but it didn't really gather media momentum until about the second week of March. It's not like this crime sparked flames of anger that were just waiting to ignite; rather people slowly became aware of the merits of the Martin's case, the travesty of justice that followed the shooting, the widespread adoption of the idiotic law (written by the NRA in boilerplate form) that let Zimmerman off the hook, and the obvious racial overtones of the shooting and coverup. All these things come together in this single case. That's why it's news.

According to an article, I just read, in Florida claims of justifiable homicide have tripled since the law went into effect. It claims the police acted properly in accordance with the law. So as long as you can come up with a good story, and your primary opposing witness is dead, the police are not even allowed to make a full investigation.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/28/my-ethics-stand-your-ground-laws-are-invitation-to-kill/

My my understanding is that Zimmerman's family has a legal background. So he could have understood the implications of the law before he left his home.

[yodajazz]

[QUOTE=giovanni_hotel;1119855].......equals the DEATH PENALTY, because a fatass punk starts some bullshit he can't finish and is a purebred pussy.


I think you have it backwards. It appears that Treyvon was the punk who couldn't finish what he started.

I agree with you, Trayvon could not finish what he started. He started off by going to the store for candy and a beverage. He was unarmed. He had no police record. He is now dead, as we know. The man with the weapon admitted to killing him. Many people are suspicious. In the mind of most, it would finished with a thorough inestigation, which would include a court proceeding. In the mind of most Americans the concept of Justice includes trial. And guess what, the officers charged with the first and only, on-the-scene investigation, felt that Zimmerman should have been charged. Perhaps he is innocent as he claimed. However, I have seen many times in the movies, where a person injured themselves, in an attemp to justify a self defense claim. So this is one reason, why so people, are seeking to understand what the real evidence is in this case, and why it is news. Violent things happen everyday, and it makes the news, also. This news story is about finishing, what was said to be, a trip to the store for candy. It's ending up to be a lseeon to ther world, about American Justice.

[mildcigar_2001]

"I have seen many times in the movies, where a person injured themselves, in an attemp to justify a self defense claim."

You have to be kidding.

I realize that this is mainly a TS porn related forum, but please don't base your arguments on the movies. A young boy is dead, and most of us are trying to get a sense of what happened by the available evidence. This is a serious matter and there may be race riots and more people killed because of this incident. The New Black Panther Party is advocating killing Zimmerman and other "crackers." This is the time Obama ought to speak up and tell the black community to allow the justice system to work. Race riots will only doom Obama's reelection chances. Obama needs to be the President who represents all Americans, not just Americans that look like him.

As I think can be seen from my previous posts that I think that is someone physically assaults you then you have the right to defend yourself. Contrary to the opinion of some on this board, the 1st Amendment allows one to question those who are act in a furtive manner (they don't have to respond to you, but neither do they have the right to punch you).

[ed_jaxon]

So Mild are you saying that the system is not biased????

I know personally not one but TWO dudes who were on DEATH ROW and were later exonerated because of police misconduct. That is not television. Dudes confessions were coerced and the overseeing officer (Jon Burge) got 4 years.

If we mistrust the system we have reason to.

[giovanni_hotel]

Why are you suggesting there are going to be race riots??
When's the last time there was a genuine race riot in the USA??

You right wingers sure do have a rich fantasy life.lol

Southern negroes don't 'riot', 'cause Southern cops SHOOT TO KILL, unlike L.A.

This apparently isn't the first time a Black youth has died under suspicious circumstances in Sanford and there weren't any riots.
There won't be any this time either.

[giovanni_hotel]

Contrary to the opinion of some on this board, the 1st Amendment allows one to question those who are act in a furtive manner (they don't have to respond to you, but neither do they have the right to punch you).

First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Where the fuck did you get the idea the 1st Amendment allows you John Q. Public to detain and question someone BREAKING NO LAWS as if you were law enforcement??:confused:

[trish]

the 1st Amendment allows one to question those who are act in a furtive manner (they don't have to respond to you, but neither do they have the right to punch you). Unless, of course, the questioner, whose weaponry gives you reason to fear for your life, attempts to detain you...then you can invoke the stand-your-ground law and defend yourself...if you're still alive to invoke it...if you aren't you assailant will. That's one fucked up law.

[amberskyi]

First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Where the fuck did you get the idea the 1st Amendment allows you John Q. Public to detain and question someone BREAKING NO LAWS as if you were law enforcement??:confused:


lmaoooooo...ignorance always make me giggle...stupid people are always entertaining

[mildcigar_2001]

First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Where the fuck did you get the idea the 1st Amendment allows you John Q. Public to detain and question someone BREAKING NO LAWS as if you were law enforcement??:confused:


Prior to being attacked by Treyvon, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than talk to the kid. It appears that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for daring to talk to him, and then Treyvon was then shot for his troubles. I get sick of people excusing Treyvon's attacking of Zimmerman (and there is witness statements that Zimmerman was on the ground being attack by Treyvon. If the New Black Panthers are any indication, some in the black community can only think of resulting to violence when questioned. I'm surprised that I've not been threatened with violence for daring to oppose the Al Sharpton narrative.

[Willie Escalade]

If only Zimmerman had stayed in his ride (as he was instructed to), none of us are having this conversation.

[giovanni_hotel]

Prior to being attacked by Treyvon, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than talk to the kid. It appears that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for daring to talk to him, and then Treyvon was then shot for his troubles. I get sick of people excusing Treyvon's attacking of Zimmerman (and there is witness statements that Zimmerman was on the ground being attack by Treyvon. If the New Black Panthers are any indication, some in the black community can only think of resulting to violence when questioned. I'm surprised that I've not been threatened with violence for daring to oppose the Al Sharpton narrative.


Watch your back, Whitey!!!:geek:

Seriously, the 'bounty' put out on Zimmerman by TNBPP was to bring him to law enforcement as a fugitive, not to execute him. It was a publicity stunt.

If you follow a scared kid for blocks then get out of your car to 'confront' them, you don't have the right to KILL them afterwards if the kid swings on you, which we don't know actually happened.

Zimmerman didn't identify himself and I bet Trayvon was more afraid of him than the other way around.

[Cecil Rhodes]

the 1st amendment has nothing to do with this case nor does it to interactions between[private individials

[amberskyi]

Prior to being attacked by Treyvon, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than talk to the kid. It appears that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for daring to talk to him, and then Treyvon was then shot for his troubles. I get sick of people excusing Treyvon's attacking of Zimmerman (and there is witness statements that Zimmerman was on the ground being attack by Treyvon. If the New Black Panthers are any indication, some in the black community can only think of resulting to violence when questioned. I'm surprised that I've not been threatened with violence for daring to oppose the Al Sharpton narrative.

im sorry but im thinking stalking someone in the middle of the night and then confronting them with a gun is a bit more than just fucking talking to someone...you really cant be that dumb can you???? how the hell would you respond if on your way to your families house some guy followed you (long enough for you to feel threatened enough to call someone) and than hoped out asking you questions with a gun? threatened maybe?
zimmerman acted beyond recklessly and escalated a situation that was never there to begin with,because of his actions a kid died needlessly,thats why he deserves manslaughter.
ps.and we know where you live...(now you can say youve been racial threatened.

[bluesoul]

If only Zimmerman had stayed in his ride (as he was instructed to), none of us are having this conversation.

no, we'd be talking about this http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=1120046&postcount=447 instead

[onmyknees]

Prior to being attacked by Treyvon, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than talk to the kid. It appears that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for daring to talk to him, and then Treyvon was then shot for his troubles. I get sick of people excusing Treyvon's attacking of Zimmerman (and there is witness statements that Zimmerman was on the ground being attack by Treyvon. If the New Black Panthers are any indication, some in the black community can only think of resulting to violence when questioned. I'm surprised that I've not been threatened with violence for daring to oppose the Al Sharpton narrative.


Dude....I admire your stamina, but you're pissing into the wind. After reading since I last posted, few facts ( hear me now.......FACTS) if any have been released, yet everyone seems to have a pretty good idea of the sequence of events on that night, despite 3 news networks having to retract previously released information. It's futile to tell them otherwise. It breaks down pretty much along racial lines....I don't think I'm revealing anything controversial...if you're black, you project every nasty racial profiling episode onto Zimmerman, you want him tried and convicted....nothing else will be acceptable. If you're white and maybe put more faith in the justice system, you're inclined to let this play out, and even give Zimmerman the presumption of innocence .....imagine that? Even thought to be honest....I don't consider him to be white, and neither does he...

Several things are certain at this point......The press has behaved abhorrently and played into every racial stereotype there is. Nothing new there...Secondly, this is obviously a much more complicated case than the hustlers, and most folks on here would have you believe.

But we're not in for a resolution anytime soon........... if ever.... if there is an arrest, there will be a preliminary hearing, than it will be a year before the trial, and then a verdict, and the press and others will be whippin' up trouble the entire time.....so we're in for a very long thread !!!!!!!!

[buttslinger]

Dude.... If you're white and maybe put more faith in the justice system, you're inclined to let this play out, and even give Zimmerman the presumption of innocence .....imagine that?

Let's put aside your imagination a minute. The justice system let Zimmerman walk out the door. Without even a court date appearance. Am I right, Whiteman?

[hippifried]

Prior to being attacked by Treyvon, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than talk to the kid. It appears that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for daring to talk to him, and then Treyvon was then shot for his troubles. I get sick of people excusing Treyvon's attacking of Zimmerman (and there is witness statements that Zimmerman was on the ground being attack by Treyvon. If the New Black Panthers are any indication, some in the black community can only think of resulting to violence when questioned. I'm surprised that I've not been threatened with violence for daring to oppose the Al Sharpton narrative.
Oh wow! So now we get to just make up the story as we go along? Cool. I can do that too. Just reach on back & pull shitloads of unreported details out of my ass. (pun intended) So let's get this straight:

1) There was a conversation. Zimmerman was just talking to the kid. After all, the 1st Amendment allows for that, even though the National Archives & Congressional Record screwed up & didn't get it into the transcript. Was the conversation picked up on the 911 recording? Was this before or after the cries for help?

2) Zimmerman is allowed to pursue, close, & engage, but Martin isn't allowed to throw the punch. Did I get that right?

3) Martin now has Zimmerman on the ground wailing on him. Wow! This kid just gets bigger, stronger, & meaner every day.

Okay, that's enough for now. Let's take a look:

1) If Zimmerman was talking to Martin, that just means he caught up to him while in pursuit. Were they face to face? If so, were they facing back toward where the pursuit had begun or in the direction the pursuit had been taking? Whether or not Zimmerman had passed Martin & was now blocking his path makes a difference. Here's a question that needs to be asked: Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?

2) You know what an assault is, right? You understand that assault is the threat of violence, whether it actually happens or not? This: 'Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?' still applies here. This isn't about who threw the punch. It's about who's the aggressor & who's the defender. Under "stand your ground", Martin's the one with the justified use of force.

3) So now Zimmerman's a punk too? A useless wimp who can only defend himself with a gun? He's not fat, he's got 50 pouinds on the kid, he pursues, he engages, & he still gets taken down & beat up? If he's that much of a pussy, why's he chasing anybody in the first place? Oh that's right. He's armed. That makes him brave, heroic, tough, thoughtful, & ... Nah! It just makes him a scared & stupid wimp with a gun, & a danger to averyone around him. Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?

[Nicole Dupre]

if you're black, you project every nasty racial profiling episode onto Zimmerman, you want him tried and convicted....nothing else will be acceptable. If you're white and maybe put more faith in the justice system, you're inclined to let this play out, and even give Zimmerman the presumption of innocence .....imagine that? Even thought to be honest....I don't consider him to be white, and neither does he...Are you drunk or something? Who the hell are you to attribute opinions to people based on the color of their skin? I'm white, and I think your theory here really sucks.

And btw, I don't believe you were in any jungle fighting any enemy during any war. That sounds like total horseshit.

[trish]

I don't think I'm revealing anything controversial...if you're black, you project every nasty racial profiling episode onto Zimmerman, you want him tried and convictedBullshit. Let's just take one step at a time and have a honest investigation.

[amberskyi]

Oh wow! So now we get to just make up the story as we go along? Cool. I can do that too. Just reach on back & pull shitloads of unreported details out of my ass. (pun intended) So let's get this straight:

1) There was a conversation. Zimmerman was just talking to the kid. After all, the 1st Amendment allows for that, even though the National Archives & Congressional Record screwed up & didn't get it into the transcript. Was the conversation picked up on the 911 recording? Was this before or after the cries for help?

2) Zimmerman is allowed to pursue, close, & engage, but Martin isn't allowed to throw the punch. Did I get that right?

3) Martin now has Zimmerman on the ground wailing on him. Wow! This kid just gets bigger, stronger, & meaner every day.

Okay, that's enough for now. Let's take a look:

1) If Zimmerman was talking to Martin, that just means he caught up to him while in pursuit. Were they face to face? If so, were they facing back toward where the pursuit had begun or in the direction the pursuit had been taking? Whether or not Zimmerman had passed Martin & was now blocking his path makes a difference. Here's a question that needs to be asked: Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?

2) You know what an assault is, right? You understand that assault is the threat of violence, whether it actually happens or not? This: 'Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?' still applies here. This isn't about who threw the punch. It's about who's the aggressor & who's the defender. Under "stand your ground", Martin's the one with the justified use of force.

3) So now Zimmerman's a punk too? A useless wimp who can only defend himself with a gun? He's not fat, he's got 50 pouinds on the kid, he pursues, he engages, & he still gets taken down & beat up? If he's that much of a pussy, why's he chasing anybody in the first place? Oh that's right. He's armed. That makes him brave, heroic, tough, thoughtful, & ... Nah! It just makes him a scared & stupid wimp with a gun, & a danger to averyone around him. Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[nylifun]

2) You know what an assault is, right? You understand that assault is the threat of violence, whether it actually happens or not? This: 'Is there any possible way that Martin could have perceived Zimmerman as anything other than a threat?' still applies here. This isn't about who threw the punch. It's about who's the aggressor & who's the defender. Under "stand your ground", Martin's the one with the justified use of force.


Respectfully suggest you look up the actual definition of assault because you have it 100% incorrect.

This whole debate (meaning the greater debate, not just this board) is so horribly jaded from how it's been reported. Hell, just look at the title of this thread! It's almost impossible for form an unbiased opinion - one because the media loads so much bias on every word for good ratings and two because so few *actual* facts are available.

Remember there are always 3 sides to every story his, hers (or his #2 in this case) and the truth. That doesn't even necessarily mean either person is lying - but how each person sees an event will vary. Especially something like this where adrenaline is flowing and everyone's excited, scared, and outside their element.

[giovanni_hotel]

Even Bill Cosby said that if Zimmerman didn't have that side piece, he NEVER would have gotten out of his car and approached Trayvon in the first place.

[mildcigar_2001]

For those who want to make a donation to George Zimmerman's Defense Fund:


Due in part to some of the mindless vitriol in this thread, I made a donation to the above defense fund to ensure that justice is obtained. I'm not going to let Al Sharpton railroad an innocent man into prison.

As a complete side note, I just wonder who was raising Treyvon that allowed him to have gold teeth and tattoos age 17. It sounds like his parents couldn't or wouldn't control him. Chances are if he looked like a gangbanger he acted like a gangbanger (I think the twitter account demonstates this as well). I'm not saying dress the boy like Urkel, (and granted I'm not very ghetto) but WTF is the logic in allowing gold teeth and tattoos. That is an indication to me that the kid is not being raised appropriately. I can just imagine what would have happened to me if I showed up at age 17 at home with tattoos (let alone gold in my grill).

[amberskyi]

For those who want to make a donation to George Zimmerman's Defense Fund:


Due in part to some of the mindless vitriol in this thread, I made a donation to the above defense fund to ensure that justice is obtained. I'm not going to let Al Sharpton railroad an innocent man into prison.

As a complete side note, I just wonder who was raising Treyvon that allowed him to have gold teeth and tattoos age 17. It sounds like his parents couldn't or wouldn't control him. Chances are if he looked like a gangbanger he acted like a gangbanger (I think the twitter account demonstates this as well). I'm not saying dress the boy like Urkel, (and granted I'm not very ghetto) but WTF is the logic in allowing gold teeth and tattoos. That is an indication to me that the kid is not being raised appropriately. I can just imagine what would have happened to me if I showed up at age 17 at home with tattoos (let alone gold in my grill).


well i have tatts so im obviously a hard core tranny gang banger.....we flash gang signs by flashing our cocks and titts

[nonnonnon]

ttttt

[Nicole Dupre]

For those who want to make a donation to George Zimmerman's Defense Fund:
http://www.therealgeorgezimmerman.com/

Due in part to some of the mindless vitriol in this thread, I made a donation to the above defense fund to ensure that justice is obtained. I'm not going to let Al Sharpton railroad an innocent man into prison.

As a complete side note, I just wonder who was raising Treyvon that allowed him to have gold teeth and tattoos age 17. It sounds like his parents couldn't or wouldn't control him. Chances are if he looked like a gangbanger he acted like a gangbanger (I think the twitter account demonstates this as well). I'm not saying dress the boy like Urkel, (and granted I'm not very ghetto) but WTF is the logic in allowing gold teeth and tattoos. That is an indication to me that the kid is not being raised appropriately. I can just imagine what would have happened to me if I showed up at age 17 at home with tattoos (let alone gold in my grill).
You should join the Klan too, if you haven't already. Maybe your parents would be impressed when you came home then and turned on FOX news. :boring

[Prospero]

"Chances are if he looked like a gangbanger he acted like a gangbanger."

A baseless and wholly spurious suggestion (I won't dignify it by calling it an argument). Young people follow fashions. And they've been getting flack for it for decades. Criticism is one thing - being labelled a gangbanger without any evidence when you've been gunned down and killed in cold blood is a nasty and baseless accusation.

[GroobySteven]

F
As a complete side note, I just wonder who was raising Treyvon that allowed him to have gold teeth and tattoos age 17. It sounds like his parents couldn't or wouldn't control him. Chances are if he looked like a gangbanger he acted like a gangbanger (I think the twitter account demonstates this as well). I'm not saying dress the boy like Urkel, (and granted I'm not very ghetto) but WTF is the logic in allowing gold teeth and tattoos. That is an indication to me that the kid is not being raised appropriately. I can just imagine what would have happened to me if I showed up at age 17 at home with tattoos (let alone gold in my grill).

You're an ass.
I turned up home with ear pierced, bleach-tipped hair, pink shirt and skin tight jeans which didn't go down too well either, when I was 15.

[Willie Escalade]

It's topics like these that bring out people's true colors.

[Stavros]

I have yet to read a definitive account of what happened that night, and now wonder if we will ever have an objective account that satisfies everyone. Beyond the two people involved, the key issues must be the behaviour of the police, and the definition of the 'stand your ground' law in Florida -in the meantime, in the UK a survey by the Guardian reveals that:
"Rising numbers of civilian justifiable homicides across the US are closely linked to states with both weak gun controls and stand-your-ground laws, according to a Guardian analysis of FBI (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/fbi) and other data, which show a 25% increase in such killings since the controversial self-defence laws started being introduced around 2005.
Stand-your-ground (SYG) measures, which have attracted increasing scrutiny since the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/trayvon-martin) by a neighbourhood watch volunteer in Florida (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/florida), allow citizens to use deadly force when they believe their life is in danger, without requiring them to retreat or try to escape the threat first."


The full article with data is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/05/stand-your-ground-gun-control-data?INTCMP=SRCH

[Yvonne183]

Again, I can not say who was right or wrong in the case cause I was not there nor do I know the evidence. If it was a clear cut case then the DOJ or whoever is investigating the situation right now would have made a decision on what to do, it seems very complicated.

But what some posters are bringing up now in this thread is interesting, the way the kid dressed. I am not stupid, I do know that no one should be hassled let alone shot for dressing of out place from "society's" perceptions.

When younger as a goth/punk I would be hassled by the cops, store security and even a citizens patrol cause of the way I dressed. For me, I just had to explain my situation and try not to get angry cause some of the people questioning me carried a gun. Now that I live with guys who dress as bikers the same thing happens to me and them. We get hassled by the same people, OK, not so much from citizen patrols but the police always hassle us cause of the way we look, even though we done nothing wrong. It is past perceptions of bikers that leads people to believe that all of us are bad people. I think it's wrong to hassle people based on how they dress and look, it's especially wrong to kill someone cause of this but whether we like it or not, how a person dresses does play a role in their lives, it's sad but it does.


The other problem I kinda see since I came online a few years ago. I might be wrong but I kinda think that people of different races seem to be separating from each other more nowadays. I hate to use the phrase "some of my best friends are" but when I was younger I had a very diverse group of people I knew. Today I rarely talk to a black person, mostly just online. I don't know if that is true all over the country but other white people I know and talk to have similar lives. And with this comes the situation where people don't know what goes on in each others lives.

What I'm trying to say up above in both my thoughts is that white people get hassled by the police the same as blacks. it's just that I don't and my friends don't talk to other black people in a personal way so they might not know that whites get messed with too. I have had white friends who were shot by the police in questionable circumstances but cause the news doesn't care and few of us talk to black people these incidents basically go unnoticed by most except the few that knew the people.

I do understand that not all cases are the same, people see injustice in some and not in others, I understand that. But I find that injustice doesn't just happen to black people or how a black person dresses that causes injustice, the same thing happens to white people but you just don't hear of it as often. OK, maybe white yuppies don't get messed with, but I can assure you that white people of a different background do get messed with sometimes they get shot and killed too.

[Nicole Dupre]

It's topics like these that bring out people's true colors.
They really do.

And it indicates that those people are pretty fucking stupid.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187