What's the difference between a democracy and a republic?

[Jasadin]

:?:

[trish]

just off the cuff (so correct me if i'm wrong): when a democracy has to make policy decision, decide a course of action, etc. every citizen gets a vote. every citizen is in on every little governmental decision. i believe we're told that Athenian's in the classical age of Greece has a democracy.

in a republic, citizens don't get a vote on everything. instead, their elected officials do most the work. states today that call themselves democracies are in fact republics.


so now you can tell me, was this a trick question?

[El Nino]

Nope...

A democracy is a peoples' majority rule, So, that would be 51%. If 51% of people vote one way, much to the dismay of the other 49%, you have a lot of unhappy campers (49% to be precise). This is why democracies can suck and be problematic. The USA is not a democracy even though EVERYBODY thinks it is. It has been hijacked raped and twisted.

Our country was set up as a Constitutional Republic wherein all citizens are granted the same unalienable rights and freedoms respectively. This way, a majority rule of a Neo-con or Neo-lib order, CAN NOT impose their wills on the people. The citizens should always have their rights protected under the Constitution, which is better than having new laws constantly imposed on us. We the people are supposed to keep the government in check... not vice versa.

Also in a republic, we vote for delegates and representatives and our individual votes do not "directly" quantify an outcome. Caucusing and The electoral college are more examples (Trish you were somewhat on target here)

Bottom line is, this country is a Constitutional Republic that has been stolen by power hungry fucktards over its lifespan. Our civil liberties are barely remaining, the government has grown wayyy too big, and there are too many laws that are randomly enforced. The only hope right now is to vote in Ron Paul. He is founding father material and wants to give everybody their FREEDOM BACK!

Restore the Republic, elect RON PAUL. All other candidates are big-government talking heads and things will only get worse.

[hippifried]

Fuck a bunch of Ron Paul. There's nothing about a republic that says you get to vote for or on anything, including your "representatives". If you want to get all technical one way, then keep it consistant. The very act of people voting at all is a democratic process. We've chosen to be a democratic republic, just like Athens, where the people vote in the management of the government. Unlike Athens & Rome, we no longer make a distinction between landlords & slaves, even though we did at first. That makes it a bit more unwieldy, but that's why we grant powers to our representatives.

If you want to "legalize the Constitution", you might want to try reading it first.

[thx1138]

Actually the US is an oligarchy. Only millionaires get to run for senator/president.

[El Nino]

Hipifried, the USA was in all actuality, intended and set up as a Constitutional Republic. The 10 articles of the Bill of rights granted us all our American freedoms and were supposed to be invincible and withstanding forever. Well, thanks to "Big Government" and all newly created and unnecessary bureaucracies (which Ron Paul wants to eradicate) our rights are not present anymore. Yes, the people having the right to vote was in fact a part of this Constitution. I Never said otherwise. We are supposed to elect people regularly, that swear to protect this sacred, magical document that was drawn up with liberty and freedom for all in mind. As I said, the country has been hijacked and is turning into a police-state.

My friend, when you say "Fuck a bunch of Ron Paul," the only person who is getting fucked... is you. He is standing up for your civil liberties. Wake up now, its almost too late. There is a reason the mainstream media tries to smear his message and black him out

[El Nino]

http://www.RonPaulLibrary.org

ReEducate

[trish]

I stand profoundly corrected. Thank you all.

[hippifried]

I ain't buying it. I've heard all this before, & Ron Paul's been running for President for the last 3 or 4 years. He even ran once before as a libertarian. Here's some of my concerns:

Taxes) He won't be able to abolish the IRS. Good. You can't just do away with entitlements, & you certainly can't cancel the debt without paying it off. That debt is owed to us too. Like it or not, we're in debt. Over a third of the US annual budget is debt service. If there's no more income tax, it has to replaced by something or we defaust & lose all of our economic credibility. That leaves some kind of VAT. A regressive tax that punishes people for lack of disposable income. This has been the agenda of supply siders since day one. Shifting the tax burdon down is a recipe for disaster.

Foreign policy) Here's where he gets my attention. I agree with his statements on the military. In fact, I'd go a step further & say that the army should be disbanded & we should get out of the arms business altogether. However, I think we should step up our efforts to help the developing world develop. We should open trade even more. As far as I'm concerned, NAFTA's a good deal. I think it should be extended throughout the western hemisphere. I'm sick to death of all this isolationist nonsense from all sides. The world has much to offer us, other than raw natural resources.

Domestic policy) You can't just shut down the bureaucracy. We have regulations because we've found them to be necessary. Agencies are necessary to enforce the various regulatory codes that the public has demanded. OSHA saves lives. EPA protects the environment. Agencies of the department of labor protect your wages & overtime. NLRB protects the ability of workers to organize. CRC & its various sub-agencies protect people from discrimination. On & on... We need a basic infrastructure. We rely on it to carry out our normal functions within the society. Education is part of that infrastructure. Healthcare should be too. The safety net works. Social security is a good thing. Private industry, charities, & the individual states cannot & will not handle this shit. They never have before.


The idea that we're no longer a constitutional republic is just silly. It's just taken us this long to put the purpose of the government into effect. We aren't an agrarian society anymore, & I'm not willing to spin the nation back to the days of the robber barons. I don't know about you, but my rights are intact. I'm not crazy about the patriot act by a long shot, but it still has a sunset. The current administration, coupled with 12 years of lockstep republican silliness prior to 2007, was real bad but I have faith in the American people's memories. It may take a while to catch on to the goofiness of ideologues, but it happens. Americans got bamboozled by the Reagan insanity, but now they can see what happens when it gets carried to fruition. I don't want another ideologue in the Whitehouse. We need a dose of pragmatism.

[El Nino]

You foolish man. Your rights are anything but intact. What, do you live under a rock? The Patriot acts 1 and 2, the Military Commissions act, no right to habeas corpus, etc etc etc.... and these are just scratching the surface. They chisel away your rights little by little under the cover of disinfo and distraction. Do the research yourself, its out there.
Anyway, Thomas Jefferson once said, "Any man that gives up his liberty for security, deserves NONE" and boy was he fucking right.


Your taking issue with Ron Paul is unwise, you have been misinformed because you are regurgitating all the Mainstream talking points, which attempt to smear him. Just like you, they all call him an isolationist and you know what? He is not! He is a non-interventionist and doesn't believe we should police the world and medal around in everybody's business, like the CIA has been doing for years. Dr. Paul wants to end such bureaucratic monstrosities. Please refer to and watch this short 2 minute clip on the history of the CIA if you don't believe me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDqhV52ww9A
Dr. Paul still wants healthy relations with all willing countries, that is trade, diplomacy and all things civil. War is not!!!

I also have to take issue with your pro income tax stance. Dr. Paul wants everybody to keep the money they earn (as they should) and be able to choose what they want to do with it. The IRS would not be needed if we didn't spend ALL of our money fighting ILLEGAL wars, building bases around the world and funding other regimes. I mean, please, the free market along with a sound money system, would balance the budget and all services would still function respectively. The war is the main factor putting this country in debt. We are borrowing billions from the Chinese to fund it? WTF is wrong with this picture here? We are destroying our economy to bring "democracy" to the middle-east???

Dr. Paul has the solution to ending inflation. He understands economics like no other candidate. He knows that all the issues today are not separate but tied interconnected. all other candidates are elitist puppets or foolish politicians. Ron Paul stands for the people and the document this country was founded upon.

Lastly, America was set up to be a Constitutional Republic. The minute the Constitution is violated, is the minute we cease to be.... America. Restore the Republic, vote for Dr. Paul

[hippifried]

Yeah yeah yeah... So why is he a republican?

These are the policies of his party that have been maintained for over a half century. Since before he ever joined. All this perpetual war nonsense was institutionalized by President Eisenhower. (what a piece of shit that asshole was) The center of the party platform is expansion of the military, American hegemony, corporate control of government, & higher levels of government control & interference in the lives & choices of individuals. He claims to be exactly the opposite of his chosen party. The party he claims to represent. There's something wrong with this picture.

On the unlikely chance that he could get into the presidency, he can't do what he's promising. The President isn't that powerful now, despite the incredible arrogance we're seeing from the current administration. No President could pull that kind of change off by himself without subverting the Constitution even more than anyone has ever dreamed of. All these things require action by Congress. He's a member of Congress, has been during control by both parties, & has never been able to push any legislation through.

This guy's long on ego & rhetoric, but he's sorely lacking when it comes to actually being able to accomplish anything or even having a clue how to do it. He's a couple tacos light of a combination plate. Got you buffaloed though. & you're calling me foolish. You can't do a damn thing if you can't work the system.

I'd just as soon see the CIA disbanded. The patriot act will probably sunset all by itself. The current administration will all be permanently on the golf course in a year. I'd like to see the Marines & Airforce pared way down & put under the direction of a shrunken Navy. I'd like to see the Army cut to bare minimum of command & control & an expansion of the reserves just to keep a ready force in case of emergency. I'm not a fan of tarriffs. I certainly don't like value added taxes. The income tax is the only way to progressively tax those who can afford to pay by ability to pay. Capital gains should be taxed as income. If you don't like it, amend the Constitution. The income tax is part of the document. I was involved in both the antiwar movement & the drug subculture of the late '60s & early '70s. I've seen the police state. It's been here for a while. None of this is new. Ron Paul is not going to be President of the United States. My concern now is making sure John McCain doesn't either. He's a shill for the pentagon. I'm sick of the war mentality & the paranoia I see all around me. I'm also sick of the ideologues & incompetents. All I want for President is someone who can pragmatically handle problems as they come up & effectively manage the daily affairs of the government. That's what the President is supposed to do.

[El Nino]

What are you on drugs man? What the hell have you been smoking? Don't you know that Ron Paul is a Traditionalist/Jeffersonian Republican? You shouldn't talk shit about Ron Paul if you are not educated about him or his message. The Republicans you speak of nowadays are Neoconservatives. They have COMPLETELY taken over the party and given it a horrible reputation. They are war hawks, nation-builders and anti-Constitution. Ron Paul even FREQUENTLY talks about how his party has been stolen and he's the only one true to his party on the stage...

TRUE REPUBLICANISM encourages a non-interventionist, humble foreign policy and discourages war and big-government with excessive mandates and laws on the people. Ron Paul stands out from all these Neo-con criminals and phonies. You wrote, "He claims to be exactly the opposite of his chosen party. The party he claims to represent. There's something wrong with this picture."
NO, he is the only one who represents the party, all the others represent the opposite. Rediscover history my friend, you're just being foolish here and spewing literal diarrhea from your fingertips...

Ron Paul wants to restore the party, give power to the people, get rid of government corruption and have liberty prosper once again. It is people like you who don't understand the full scope and are quick to judge him, that are an impediment to true freedom. Don't think it can happen scum? The freedom movement is gaining so much momentum that it won't even matter if the MSM smearing works out and he doesn't become President. The message will prevail regardless and destroy the disinformation machine and transform the disinformed like yourself. Power to the People

P.S. It is dangerously naive of you to think that these draconian laws like the "Patriot" Acts 1 and 2 etc, will expire by themselves. Don't you know about absolute corruption? I suggest you don't post again unless you know what you are talking about

[El Nino]

BTW, responding to factual rebuttals by only writing "yeah yeah yeah" is fucking stupid. Also, the income tax IS in fact a tax that there is NO law for. Lastly, I don't know why you don't like Ron Paul a little more "Hippifried"? He's the only candidate that wants to stop sending marijuana users to prison!

[hippifried]

There it is. Didn't take more than a couple of posts to shift the focus of the debate to a personal attack on me. Such predictable behavior from those without arguments of their own. Go ahead, I can take it. I've heard all the parroted cliches before. Everybody's ignorant except you, right?

Oh by the way: Jefferson was the first president to demand the power to make war on foreign nations without declaration. He started "the war on terror".

[El Nino]

You've already lost this one chief...

[hippifried]

How?

[Rogers]

Keeping it simple, a republic just means that there is no hereditary leader or monarch. A democracy just means that all or a certain subset of the population gets to have a say who becomes the leader through competitive elections. The United Kingdom has universal suffrage but has a monarch as its head of state. This makes the U.K. a democracy but not a republic. The United States also has universal suffrage but no monarch, this makes the U.S. a republic AND a democracy.

P.S. Ron Paul? :smh Withdrawal from NATO and the U.N.... what kind of shit is that? How's the U.S. going to project its power around the globe with any shred of legitimacy if that happens, especially with Russia, China, and India on the rise, never mind tackling climate change as it worsens this century and the threats it will pose to national security? If libertarianism ruled in the U.S. most (if not all) of the world would now be speaking German or Japanese, and the Jews and Slavs would have been exterminated a long time ago. Like it or not, you just can't ignore others and do whatever you like in life, because sooner or later someone will not only be banging on your door but kicking it in. There's the way life is, and the way life should be. :( Competition and war (a form of inter-specific competition) are key drivers of evolution and therefore integral components in the "equation" of life.

The Man in the High Castle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_in_the_High_Castle

[El Nino]

Yeah OK buddy... and the UN is an altruistic entity too... Actually they are PURE EVIL

[Rogers]

Yeah OK buddy... and the UN is an altruistic entity too... Actually they are PURE EVIL
Seems you dodged NATO, El Nino, can you at least cite examples to back up your assertion about the UN then?

[skybuddha]

We are destroying our economy to bring "democracy" to the middle-east???



I have to disagree with that. Oil is so important to civilisation right now, that when the oil runs out nobody will give a rats ass what happens in the middle east. Democracy within the American sphere of influence is not opposed however its simply a smokescreen if used as a core reason for invasion in my opinion.

[hippifried]

can you at least cite examples to back up your assertion about the UN then?
Of course not. Well not right now anyway. It'll take a while to sift through the Birch literature.

[El Nino]

Well hey hey there.... I can't spend all day and night on this forum, don't ya know! Jesus.
Anyway, this is just scratching the surface
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/UN/peace.html
http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/001478.html

Learn some more by yourselves

[hippifried]

There you go, Rogers. There's a blog entry for all occasions. And of course we all know that the "blogosphere" is the most accurate information source ever known because they can all access each other's opinions. Oh excuse me, I meant information.
:roll:

Why are you having so much trouble getting your head around this? The UN is evil because Joe Grossberg (whoever he is) said so, & some unknown poster at whatreallyhappened.com copied & pasted a 1997 article from "The New American" (part of American Opinion Publishing, Inc.) about how horrible they are. It's on the internet. It must be true. Ya gotta have faith. The rabid blog posters wouldn't steer you wrong, would they?

[El Nino]

The UN cherry picks their engagements, sometimes being directly influenced by organizations the likes of Wolfowitz's World Bank et al. More over, they RANDOMLY enforce their interventions & engagements; and often turn a blind eye to prominent genocides across the board that they could easily do something about. Often times occurring in third world countries or areas that are thin on natural resources and weak in geo-political and strategic location. Perpetual war is what the global elite have always strived for. Funding both sides of the war and creating instability. PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION...

[NewYorker]

The UN cherry picks their engagements, sometimes being directly influenced by organizations the likes of Wolfowitz's World Bank et al. More over, they RANDOMLY enforce their interventions & engagements; and often turn a blind eye to prominent genocides across the board that they could easily do something about. Often times occurring in third world countries or areas that are thin on natural resources and weak in geo-political and strategic location. Perpetual war is what the global elite have always strived for. Funding both sides of the war and creating instability. PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION...

This is true of every major country in the world though and would just as true for America under Ron Paul as any other president.

[Oli]

The UN cherry picks their engagements, sometimes being directly influenced by organizations the likes of Wolfowitz's World Bank et al. More over, they RANDOMLY enforce their interventions & engagements; and often turn a blind eye to prominent genocides across the board that they could easily do something about.

Why don't you cite an example of this preposterous statement? Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Liberia, Bosnia, Somolia, Congo, Columbia? Which one could the UN have 'easily' done something about? Which one has the World Bank prevented action in? Or was the IMF really responsible?

The UN has no army, navy or air force. Their budget comes from member countries, and they have no power to tax citizens. Any forces they deploy have to be donated by member countries and paid for by the donor countries. The boots don't hit the ground until the Security Council agrees to the deployment and troops are found.



Often times occurring in third world countries or areas that are thin on natural resources and weak in geo-political and strategic location.

Duh...Why do you think we're in Iraq for the second time in 15 years? If it was just sand, with more sand underneath it, would we really care? Would Saddam have been evil then?


Perpetual war is what the global elite have always strived for. Funding both sides of the war and creating instability. PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION...

DON'T DRINK THE KOOL AID

http://www.missilebases.com/properties/index.html

[hippifried]

The UN is not a government. Never has been, & was never intended to be. There's no such thing as "the UN army". There are no UN forces at all. The various members join into sanctioned actions on a strictly voluntary basis, at which time a commander is chosen. It's usually a joint effort between 2 or more countries. Hopefully ones that are neutral to the conflict. The UN itself doesn't have the power to enforce anything, even it's own sanctions.

The constant complaining about the UN never ceases to amaze me. The same people complain whether the UN gets involved or doesn't do anything. Then they complain that the UN is all talk. Well duh! That's what it's supposed to be. It's a forum where the countries of the world can get together & talk themselves out of fighting. The whole purpose is to look for areas of aggreement, & try to compromise on the rest. The idea isn't to find excuses for war, but to avoid it.

Legalize the UN Charter!

[q1a2z3]

Ron Paul is a good guy. Paul is anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage. I wonder what would happen if there were a gay gene - would some people become pro-life on this board?



The constitution is in exile today. Exempting businesses from paying taxes would automatically remove half the tax burden from taxpayers. There has never been a company that went out of business because its taxes went up. The tax is just added to the price of the product. The fair tax is a sales tax. Whoever buys something would pay a tax on the product. We could still file a tax return yearly and low income people would get their money back since they wouldn't have to pay the sales tax, due to the very little money they make.

Social Security Insurance, Medicare and Medicaid are nothing more than pyramid schemes invented by idiots in government. These programs need to be phased out as soon as possible. Also, until they are gone Congress should not be able to collect the money from your paycheck for these schemes and pay it out the next day. The money should be invested in many types of conservative market investments.

If you want cheaper health care then health insurance as it is defined today must become something individuals shop for. A boob job has never been cheaper than it is today. Why? because it is not covered by health insurance. If every American had to shop for a plan there would be competition. People could opt for a catastrophic plan and pay doctors visits out of pocket. Doctors would have to lower there rates and compete.

We need a President that will dispose of the following Federal institutions before the country goes broke:
FEMA - let the woman governors and black mayors
fix their own problems at the state level. Ray Nagan forgot to drive the buses out of the low lying area before they got flooded. Doh! Woman governor forgot to work with FEMA director. Doh! and both forgot to spend federal dollars they received on flood control for the last 25 years. Doh! Levy contractor didn't do the job correctly. Doh!

Department of Education - local school boards can do a better job. Get the Federal government out of micromanaging schools. Maybe they could break the NEA union - a leading communist organization.

Department of Energy - Private industry is doing a great job on developing alternative energy. Once it becomes cost effective we will be able to use it.



The fourth amendment states:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This amendment does not apply to the following:
phone calls!!! A phone call is just like standing on a street corner talking to another person. That Church idiot who got the CIA and FBI separated in 1974 was a commie and we need to undo the damage his legislation has done to our country. We need to make good use of the CIA and other organizations to keep our country safe.

Foreigners and terrorists are not covered by the Constitution!!! The Patriot Act I and II are needed!!!
There is no such thing as a illegal war either junior.
We should have nuked Ryhiad and Tora Bora on Sept 12th, 2001. Camel Jockeys understand force. They were all on TV on 911 doing their la la la la lal al celebration when the towers came down. That was the woman who was doing the la lal al thing.




I just hope Ron Paul is not a globalist like king George the Idiot. Free trade is a crock of crap! We need to protect American jobs.

[Rogers]

The UN has no army, navy or air force.... Any forces they deploy have to be donated by member countries and paid for by the donor countries. The boots don't hit the ground until the Security Council agrees to the deployment and troops are found.
... and even then the troops are still under the control of the contributing countries chains of command, not the U.N..

Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_%281993%29

[Rogers]

Without the U.N. there would be no global co-ordinated attempt to stop the spread of diseases such as the H5N1 strain of bird flu.

Global spread of H5N1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1

UN: H5N1 responses improving, but threat persists
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/apic/influenza/panflu/news/nov3007unreport.html
FAO reports downturn in H5N1 outbreaks for 2007
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/avianflu/news/dec1907fao.html

The Influenza Pandemic of 1918
The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War, known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster.
http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

Yet your boy Ron Paul, El Nino, want the U.S. out of the U.N.. As chefmike would say, LMFAO and SMDH.

[El Nino]

Wow, get your fucking facts STRAIGHT PEOPLE. Got to http://www.infowars.com and stream the daily radio program for free. It re-airs 24 hours/day. Its all based on factual analysis. Learn the truth behind the deception!!!

[NewYorker]

The UN is not a government. Never has been, & was never intended to be.

I hope you're not responding to my post. I wasn't actually suggesting that the UN was a government, just that the governments of every large country was guilty of the same exact things he was accusing the UN of.

[Oli]

Wow, get your fucking facts STRAIGHT PEOPLE. Got to http://www.infowars.com and stream the daily radio program for free. It re-airs 24 hours/day. Its all based on factual analysis. Learn the truth behind the deception!!!

Nice obfuscation. You didn't answer my questions though.



Why don't you cite an example of this preposterous statement? Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Liberia, Bosnia, Somolia, Congo, Columbia? Which one could the UN have 'easily' done something about? Which one has the World Bank prevented action in? Or was the IMF really responsible?

Infowars is not a credible source.

[El Nino]

Sure is.... its based on facts

[Oli]

Sure is.... its based on facts

Please note the highlighted word...they take facts that fit the story they want, extrapolate to the nth degree, and try to pass it off as fact. Not credible...try Reuters.

So, you going to tell us which war/genocide the UN 'easily' could have stopped?

Which conflict did the World Bank prevent UN intervention in?

[NewYorker]

Sure is.... its based on facts

Doesn't seem to be a lot of facts to be found on it. In the first two articles I looked at there were quotes from other people's blogs, statements that don't actually prove anything and information from unidentified sources.

[hippifried]

I hope you're not responding to my post. I wasn't actually suggesting that the UN was a government, just that the governments of every large country was guilty of the same exact things he was accusing the UN of.
Oh of course not. I was just responding to the paranoia about the organization, & rabid call for isolationism that seems to be a major part of the pro-Paul argument. Actually, the UN has been the subject of this whine for as long as I can remember. The paranoid are just scared of anything, & super-nationalists are just pissed off because the US doesn't have absolute control over it. Ron Paul seems to have tapped both those groups to a degree. It seems to be the brunt of his support.

As for infowars.com: What a joke. It's the Alex Jones network. Conspiracies Я us. It seems that inability to get hired by the mainstream or to be able to get anything accomplished through the existing system makes someone the darling of the gullible. I'm waiting for the cartoon that shows Ron Paul as Jesus & Alex Jones as John the Baptist. Gonna save us all! From what? The modern world? Space aliens? Communism? Capitalism? Ourselves? Multiculturalism? Maybe the ubiquitous "those them". What a bunch of hooey.

I have faith in the American public to see through hype. Sometimes it can be overwhelming, but when a politician's supporters are as nuts as the Ron Paul bunch, I'm not that worried.

[NewYorker]

I have faith in the American public to see through hype. Sometimes it can be overwhelming, but when a politician's supporters are as nuts as the Ron Paul bunch, I'm not that worried.

They're still not as bad as Linden Larouche's supports though.

[hippifried]

Aren't they pretty much the same?

[NewYorker]

Aren't they pretty much the same?

The difference is that LaRouche followers are supporting someone who's clearly and obviously batshit crazy.[/url]

[hippifried]

But ya gotta admit: LaRoushe was great entertainment.

[El Nino]

Haha, its all a big joke to you isn't it. The dollar is almost dead, we have lost your most important Constitutional rights, the Congress is completely bought and sold, they got the judges in their back pocket, our borders are open and we aren't allowed to enforce them yet we are patrolling borders over seas, oil's a $100/barrel, 5 trillion dollar debt, there is war-profiteering abound, vote fraud like you wouldn't believe, the mainstream media is OWNED by G.E. (multi defense contractor owner) and the likes, phony elections/candidates, fear mongering, false flag terror ops, poisons in our food and water, pharmaceutical companies lobbying and publishing bunk clinical results to overly medicate America, dissent is viewed as "unpatriotic", and the only Candidate who speaks truth to power is smeared as a lunatic.

Yeah, everything is fine Hippicrack... no conspiracies here at all. The government will protect you from all danger, trust 'em and obey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDZLK8xXBRw

[hippifried]

Of course it's a joke. The lunatic fringe is always a joke unless people actually start taking them seriously.

Are the current bunch of zanies in the Whitehouse fear mongering? Absolutely. But then again, so are you. I've been hearing all these same dire predictions all my life & have yet to see any of them pan out. Why should I listen to you telling me about some grand conspiracy of mass genocide with no evidence other than some opinion by another fringe lunatic?