60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

[trish]

Firstly I think I have pretty well shown in this forum that I am not stupid.

Really Faldur? It's in these forums that you revealed your belief in the time-traveling Christ who appears multiple times in the Old Testament. It's you who cannot resist the impulse, every time someone even mentions global climate change, to post a cartoon of the "man-bear-pig." You really think you're not stupid. That may be the stupidest thing I ever heard. But okay, let's give you one more test: how do you feel about evolution?

Cutting useless and wasteful government programs is not "reneging"..

You're right. Cutting useless and wasteful government programs (like the Bush tax cuts) is not reneging. But that's not what was under discussion now was it. Don't change the subject. Not raising the debt limit IS reneging. Either you're prevaricating or you're bulb is growing dim; i.e. your being an ass or you're being stupid.

The Democrats were willing to compromise: higher taxes for those who can afford it for substantial cuts in government programs. That's shared sacrifice. The poor who depend on those programs sacrificing their well-being vs the rich not being able to add another car to their fleet as soon as they were originally planning to do. The Tea Baggers were not willing to compromise one iota. Thanks to the Tea Baggers S&P judged there was an imminent risk of the U.S. reneging on its bills. So we were downgraded. What could be clearer than that? Thank you Tea Baggers for exacerbating our economic difficulties instead of helping us alleviate them. America will remember you for that.

[hippifried]

Implementation of budget controls, cutting out of control spending, (austerity program if you wish). Is not going to produce any sort of economic growth for many years. We have a government that currently has a debt to gdp of 96%.

If you think you can continue with business as usual and see any type of long term growth with 100% debt to gdp your mad. A stable US living within its means would initiate a prosperous growth period possibly like none we have seen.

And an example is not needed, the elephant in the room is pretty easy to spot.

Yeah, an example is needed. That's what was asked for, & the reason you're gettin' all haughty is because you can't provide one. Don't worry. You don't have to get all defensive. There isn't one to be had, because austerity programs like you want don't work & never have. It's not like they haven't been tried. This is the same exact shit that the IMF forces down the throats of every developing country that they loan money to. It doesn't do anything but stifle growth, & growth is the only way out of the malaise. Without money circulating, there's no growth. What you're advocating is throwing the country into an economic tailspin & lowering our status in the world. You know. The same things the Soviets tried to do to us & couldn't.

[Faldur]

Yeah, an example is needed. That's what was asked for, & the reason you're gettin' all haughty is because you can't provide one. Don't worry. You don't have to get all defensive. There isn't one to be had, because austerity programs like you want don't work & never have. It's not like they haven't been tried. This is the same exact shit that the IMF forces down the throats of every developing country that they loan money to. It doesn't do anything but stifle growth, & growth is the only way out of the malaise. Without money circulating, there's no growth. What you're advocating is throwing the country into an economic tailspin & lowering our status in the world. You know. The same things the Soviets tried to do to us & couldn't.

You cannot find an example of a country that was in such financial disarray and made the hard decisions to reverse direction. It's never been done, the only other country I can see that has spent as irresponsibly as the US is Japan. And they are the perfect example of what happens when your style of thinking is continued. It equals slow death.

As I stated, reversing direction will create hardship. Have you ever known someone who spent so irresponsibly that a credit reorganization was required? They would spend the next 10 - 15 years financially strapped paying for there irresponsible ways. Our country is no different.

[Faldur]

Really Faldur? It's in these forums that you revealed your belief in the time-traveling Christ who appears multiple times in the Old Testament. It's you who cannot resist the impulse, every time someone even mentions global climate change, to post a cartoon of the "man-bear-pig." You really think you're not stupid. That may be the stupidest thing I ever heard. But okay, let's give you one more test: how do you feel about evolution?

Oh brother, I am really sorry you have to live with so much hatred for others.

"Time traveling Christ", are you kidding me. You stated once that your Mother was a Baptist. You can check with her, the foundation of the Baptist religion is a belief in the Trinity. Now if you think that God just one day said "hey I think I'll have a baby!", then decided "Oh, boy I think I will make Him God!", your nuts. Any biblical based Christian religion has its foundation of belief in the Trinity, God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Each God, together one. And through theological proof the Trinity was present at creation, and throughout the Old Testament.

Do not believe in the theory of evolution. Have yet seen a fish step from the ocean and order a carmel macchiato at Starbucks.

And now just for you, your high priest and savior...

[trish]

Really? You're offering up that anti-science, thirteenth century, lunatic gobbledygook as evidence of your powerful intellect? LOL

[hippifried]

You cannot find an example of a country that was in such financial disarray and made the hard decisions to reverse direction. It's never been done, the only other country I can see that has spent as irresponsibly as the US is Japan. And they are the perfect example of what happens when your style of thinking is continued. It equals slow death.

As I stated, reversing direction will create hardship. Have you ever known someone who spent so irresponsibly that a credit reorganization was required? They would spend the next 10 - 15 years financially strapped paying for there irresponsible ways. Our country is no different.

"Reverse direction"? Why not call it what it really is: Going backwards... Retreat... Turning tail-ass & running... Giving up... National wussification... Surrender...
Well fuck that shit! You want to be a pussy? Curl up in fetal position & suck your thumb? Go ahead, but you don't get to take the rest of the country with you. We're the wealthiest country in the world. We're not broke. We're not a bunch of wimps. You don't know what you're talking about.

The US has been carrying a debt since its founding. We've never been on a COD basis. The government is not a profit making venture, & was never intended to be such. The biggest holder of US T-Bonds is the Federal Reserve. Second biggest is individual US bond holders collectively. The federal entitlement programs, like Social Security & Medicare, are right up there too. The lion's share of the US debt is owed to... Drum toll... Ta da! The US. It's all just shuffling numbers in the ledger. To hear you tell it, one would think the bank is getting ready to foreclose. We ARE the bank. We're not out of options.

The IMF has been forcing countries into these kind of lame austerity programs for decades. (Since the '71 shock, really, when their status as quasi world central bank was marginalized.) The reason there's no example of success is because there hasn't been any success. It's no less impossible to cut your way to prosperity than to borrow your way out of debt. Every attempt has ended in bankrupsy & charge off of the debt. It's a lose lose all the way around. 10 to 15 years? Where'd you hear that fairy tale? Try 30, 40, or longer. That's just to hit bottom. Then after the bones are picked clean, our great grandchildren & great great grandchildren get to try & start all over from nothing. Why? Because a handful of glassy eyed know nothing teabag followers wanted to make some bogus ideological point? ...& you have the gall to talk about somebody else being irresponsible... Pffft!

[Faldur]

"Reverse direction"? Why not call it what it really is: Going backwards... Retreat... Turning tail-ass & running... Giving up... National wussification... Surrender...
Well fuck that shit! You want to be a pussy? Curl up in fetal position & suck your thumb?

Ok, I will admit I needed a good laugh. "Retreat"? You have some dimwitted idiot spending money faster than the fed can print and you call correcting that action cowardice? I beg your pardon, the cowards are the ones that just continue to hide their heads in the sand and let the norm continue. It takes a brave individual to take a stand and say ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT.

The US has been carrying a debt since its founding.

Can you give me one example when that debt has been anywhere near the ratio to GDP ratio we are currently at?

[BluegrassCat]

Can you give me one example when that debt has been anywhere near the ratio to GDP ratio we are currently at?

Here's an example for the guy who doesn't believe he needs examples: World War Two. (Does your crazy creationism world view even allow you to believe in WWII?) Not only was Debt to GDP "anywhere near" what it is now, it greatly exceeded it. In 1946 we had debt to GDP ratio of 120% followed by an unprecedented growth in prosperity for the middle class and the country as a whole. So yeah, there's my example for more stimulus spending, where's yours for the austerity path?

But really, WTF? You don't believe in evolution? So you reject modern science entirely? What do you think the internet is, just Jesus giving the world one big hug? I bet even OMK acknowledges the truth of evolution.

I thought it was really weird when you refused out of hand to even LOOK at some graphs but now I guess I understand why. To maintain this disbelief about how the world works you have to avoid a lot of inconvenient truths, in politics, biology and everywhere else.

But it's not to late to come join the evidence-based world. It's pretty great here, we got cars and medicine and hot tgirls through the wonders of hormones and surgery. Why not put down the Kool-Aid and try it?

[Faldur]

where's yours for the austerity path?

There are no examples to find. No country has every buried itself in a hole as deep as us and tried to dig out. It hasn't been done. Only one country I know has dug a deeper hole, and that was Japan. There idea seems to be keep digging and sooner or later you will reach the surface.

But really, WTF? You don't believe in evolution? So you reject modern science entirely?

Your precious evolution is nothing but a theory. It is not scientific law, or a law of biology. If evolution were factual eskimos would have fur. I won't bore you with pages after pages of SCIENTIFIC facts that prove the theory wrong. I don't think you would read them anyways.

You choose to believe in evolution, based off your own research and knowledge. I choose not, based upon the same. Why do I not get the same rights as you? It really seems liberals only believe in freedom when it aligns with there own beliefs.

I thought it was really weird when you refused out of hand to even LOOK at some graphs but now I guess I understand why.

You posted some valid graphs, I took one look at where the first one came from and diss'ed it. I was wrong, I went back and re-read the graphs you posted and your point was correct. I believe I already stated that sometime ago.

But it's not to late to come join the evidence-based world. It's pretty great here, we got cars and medicine and hot tgirls through the wonders of hormones and surgery.

Not too late to come to Jesus my friend, I drive several nice cars, have a beautiful girlfriend, enjoy the finest medical care my area has to offer.

One of us is right, and one of us is wrong. For your sakes, I hope its me.. but my heart tells me otherwise.

[Faldur]

And by the way, 3 on 1 really? Can't you guys and gals find more help?