60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

[hippifried]

The arrogance is false. The lame attempts to be pompous & snide is a ruse to deflect from the immoral or gullible position. The funny part (or sad depending on your point of view) is that most of the would-be snobs don't have a pot to piss in.

[thombergeron]

Its simple, your so called person who raised a family, and then retired. If he/she was part of the 48% that do nothing to contribute to the cost and expense of running our general government they have been a drain. In other words our country would have been better off without them in it. Sorry if that hurts, but its true.

I'd be OVERWHELMINGLY interested in seeing a source for your contention that nearly half the U.S. population has no tax liability whatsoever. I would encourage you to just say that out loud, and then spend a moment or two considering how absurd it sounds.

I quickly googled "48 pay no taxes" and found various know-nothings claiming anywhere from 37% to "over 50%" of the u.s. population pay no taxes. The proposition appears to go back to the McCain campaign in 2008, which claimed that Obama's tax plan would give tax credits to the the 40% of the population that pays no federal income tax.

Sometime thereafter, the "federal income tax" distinction was thrown to the wind, so now we have a bunch of people on the internet who don't understand tax policy claiming that most of the U.S. population freeloads.

So, first of all, sales tax? Do you truly believe that half the population goes through their lives without purchasing consumer goods? You must also consider that income tax is not the only revenue that the federal government collects. For instance, if you receive a paycheck, you pay federal payroll taxes; no exceptions. There are also various kinds of investment taxes, gas tax, taxes on airfare, etc. Then there's state income taxes, local taxes, etc.

Here's a good column on the subject from David Leonhardt: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/bu...leonhardt.html

So, in point of fact, what you said is not true.

[trish]

Its simple, your so called person who raised a family, and then retired. If he/she was part of the 48% that do nothing to contribute to the cost and expense of running our general government they have been a drain. In other words our country would have been better off without them in it. Sorry if that hurts, but its true.

This is complete and utter immoral bullshit. Where the fuck are your "family values"? Holding a job and raising a family to be decent, law abiding, caring, fruitful, productive citizens with a main street work ethic (as opposed to the gambling ethic of wall street) is the main work of this nation. These are the people who make the products to which acronym "GDP" refers.

There are 300 million people in this country. 1.5% (i.e. 4.5 million of them) have an annual income of more than $250,000.00. That's a total of 1.125 trillion dollars. If each one contributed 35% of their income to taxes that would be 394 billion dollars which is more than 25% of the current deficit. Note this is a very conservative calculation because many of those 1.5% have an income that exceeds $250000 by hundreds of millions. We cannot in good conscious ignore the revenue side of the equation when trying to solve our deficit problems. Otherwise we would be placing all the weight on the economy on the shoulders of those who actually produce the goods with their bare hands.

[thombergeron]

Also note that, despite your insistence that revenue is not the problem, U.S. tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is at its lowest rate in 50 years:

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/d...olor=c&local=s

[thombergeron]

All of which pays nothing into the treasury as income tax. 48% of this country are a drain on society. I do not care what you pay for in SS, Unemployment tax, property tax, sales tax.. every working person pays those fee's, each of which goes to fund a specific service or benefit. 48% pay nothing, zip, nada! Freeloaders sucking off the tit of the government, and bitching and moaning how everyone else isn't paying enough so they can have more. We need everyone to have some skin in the game, no longer can half this country have a free ride.

This, again, is just wrong. For 2009, the latest data available, total U.S. government revenue was over $3.7 trillion. Federal income tax revenue, on the other hand was about $1.47 trillion, or about 39% of U.S. government revenue.

So what you have identified as "nothing, zip, nada" is actually the majority of government funding in the United States.

[hippifried]

We cannot in good conscious ignore the revenue side of the equation when trying to solve our deficit problems.

If there is a problem...
Take a look. This whole topic, not just in this thread, is one load of misinformation or just total bullshit after another. Throw it all against the wall & see what if anything sticks. Just makinshitup over & over & over again. There's so many bogus memes floating around out there that I'm not willing to accept any of it on face value. I think the biggest bogus bullshit claim, that all this other nonsense stems from, is that the government is or can be run like a business or a household. When you stop blindly accepting that silliness, the rest of the nonsense crumbles. Just sayin'.

[yodajazz]

Its simple, your so called person who raised a family, and then retired. If he/she was part of the 48% that do nothing to contribute to the cost and expense of running our general government they have been a drain. In other words our country would have been better off without them in it. Sorry if that hurts, but its true.

Government costs money to run, and it needs funds to continue. If 48% of the working citizens are paying nothing for their country to operate they are leaching off the good nature and expenses of others. It's just as if a neighbor came down and banged on your door and demanded you buy him dinner. Just because you work hard for your family and he doesn't feel he needs to.

Truth hurts Trish, I know. But I don't see how "sin" can be of any issue here. This is plain and simple about ownership and responsibility. When our country was founded you had to own property to vote. The founders believed that you had to have skin in the game, be a participating member of the family to have an opinion/vote. There is something to be said for that, to ask each working member of our country to pay 3% to help support the government that serves them only makes sense.

And disability or any other type of handicap/debilitating injury is not in this discussion. Were talking healthy working americans.

When I use the word ‘sin’ I am only talking about it in the most generic meaning, which simply means things like; mistake, or missing the mark. But like the Biblical concept, sin often compounds into other errors that can be our downfall. This means on an individual and collective level, which could be the US, or other nations.

Not only do I believe that the Iraq war was based upon arrogance. The tax cuts and credits given at the same time have greatly compounded the problems. I did do some further research and was surprised to learn that the Child Tax Credit was an invention of the right. It started in a Republican controled Congress, in the late 90's at $400. Bush's new tax cut in '02-'03, rose the credit from $600 to $1,000 per child. So it seems that many people, became "drains on society", because of this. I guess we would have been better off, without Republican controled Congress.

[hippifried]

Its simple, your so called person who raised a family, and then retired. If he/she was part of the 48% that do nothing to contribute to the cost and expense of running our general government they have been a drain. In other words our country would have been better off without them in it. Sorry if that hurts, but its true.

Well I hope you have the social sensitivity to set an example by euthanizing yourself when it's time for you to be put out to pasture.

[Faldur]

Well I hope you have the social sensitivity to set an example by euthanizing yourself when it's time for you to be put out to pasture.

You can count on me living a long and very productive life..

[Faldur]

The tax cuts and credits given at the same time have greatly compounded the problems. I did do some further research and was surprised to learn that the Child Tax Credit was an invention of the right. It started in a Republican controled Congress, in the late 90's at $400. Bush's new tax cut in '02-'03, rose the credit from $600 to $1,000 per child. So it seems that many people, became "drains on society", because of this. I guess we would have been better off, without Republican controled Congress.

It really comes down to "how much is enough". So Yoda, how much do you feel is right to tax people? We've already touched on the FACT that you can tax everyone earning $200k and more at 100% and will only cover the national debt for about 10 1/2 months. So how much do you want?

"In today's economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The Economic Report Of The President"

"It is no contradiction – the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today's economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The Economic Report Of The President"

"Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.

"A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill

"I have asked the secretary of the treasury to report by April 1 on whether present tax laws may be stimulating in undue amounts the flow of American capital to the industrial countries abroad through special preferential treatment."

– John F. Kennedy, Feb. 6, 1961, message to Congress on gold and the balalnce of payments deficit

"In those countries where income taxes are lower than in the United States, the ability to defer the payment of U.S. tax by retaining income in the subsidiary companies provides a tax advantage for companies operating through overseas subsidiaries that is not available to companies operating solely in the United States. Many American investors properly made use of this deferral in the conduct of their foreign investment."

– John F. Kennedy, April 20, 1961, message to Congress on taxation

"Our present tax system ... exerts too heavy a drag on growth ... It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking ... The present tax load ... distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference

"The present tax codes ... inhibit the mobility and formation of capital, add complexities and inequities which undermine the morale of the taxpayer, and make tax avoidance rather than market factors a prime consideration in too many economic decisions."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 23, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform

"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president's news conference

"Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964