60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

[yodajazz]

You don't believe I am serious about decreasing government debt? I believe raising revenue would be a smart thing. Hence my thought to raise taxes on ALL working americans by 3%. We have 48% of our working citizens who do not pay anything towards their governments operation. Its time we include them in the game. Raise the tax rate, (within reason), at what ever rate you would like, but raise it on all working americans fairly.

I have no idea where you get the info on "average tax paying families" not having a raise in real wages since 1988. My union and non-union employees have had adjusted cost of living increases regularly.

Yoda I would not oppose the re-spending of the $8 trillion we have spent since 1964 on trying to end poverty. But I would insist the money spent be means tested to ensure we get results for our investment. I feel we have not failed in lack of investment, but lack of effective programs to actually improve the situation.

And I will not buy "we do not have a spending problem", when we increase the size of the federal government by 30% in just 3 years. It was the wrong thing to do, all I propose is that we reverse that.

What about a raise, after the Bush tax cuts have been repealed? I still believe, as I have seen in numerous articles that the wealthy are getting a bigger share of the total wealth. partially due to what you have called, 'social engineering', or something like that. Such things as the "Commodities Futurization Act of 2000", or allowing investment house to become banks, are an examples.

Working families, do pay taxes. Social Security is one major way. Isn't the goverment been borrowing from SS, with thier money? The average working person, loans the government, money, interest free for a one year total, and gets it back as a tax refund. If a working class person, has property, they are payng property taxes. Then we have sales taxes, license fees, traffic fines, etc. Working people, pay tax on gas directly, as well as paying for them with the passed on costs of goods. I see taxes on such things as phone bills, some of which I dont understand who these fees are going to.

By the way I got the stats, directly from the article regarding working families income. However, lots ot people do recognize that higher paying, working class jobs, such are manufactoring, are diminishing and being replaced by lower paying service types of jobs. So perhaps the study, took into account, that an average family member is switching jobs. So getting stats from people who file taxes, would account for job switching.

Back to my proposition that the Bush tax cuts should be repealed. I think elememts of the public have been sold a bill of good that the wealthy would create more jobs with tax cuts, when they can more easily make money, through commodities, such a gas, and foreign investments. Whatever else it has done, government programs for the poor channel money directly through a local economy. And that some circulated money also gets to the wealthiest.

[Faldur]

What about a raise, after the Bush tax cuts have been repealed? I still believe, as I have seen in numerous articles that the wealthy are getting a bigger share of the total wealth. partially due to what you have called, 'social engineering', or something like that.

In 2008 the top 2% income earners paid 48% of all income taxes collected. Yoda how much is enough, at what point will you feel vindicated that the evil rich people have been adaquatly hosed?

So the rich have been loosly identified as making $200,000 or more per year. Our current year deficit is $1.5 trillion dollars. In 2010 there were 4,359,936 filers in that category. So if we do the simple math and divide $1.5 trillion by the 4,359,936 bastards that have the gaul to be ambitious, we get $344,041.70 for each rich bastard.

So to pay for our over bloated wasteful government we will send the bill to the over $200k earners and we have this one year balanced. In doing so we just wiped out the wealth of 4.4 million people but who cares they were rich!

You can't tax your way out of this, its impossible sorry. We can make strives in raising taxes moderately on all working citizens. Giving the non tax paying 48% of americans a little ownership in their country by taxing them a whopping 3% makes sense.

Working families, do pay taxes. Social Security is one major way. Isn't the goverment been borrowing from SS, with thier money? The average working person, loans the government, money, interest free for a one year total, and gets it back as a tax refund. If a working class person, has property, they are payng property taxes. Then we have sales taxes, license fees, traffic fines, etc. Working people, pay tax on gas directly, as well as paying for them with the passed on costs of goods. I see taxes on such things as phone bills, some of which I dont understand who these fees are going to.

All of which pays nothing into the treasury as income tax. 48% of this country are a drain on society. I do not care what you pay for in SS, Unemployment tax, property tax, sales tax.. every working person pays those fee's, each of which goes to fund a specific service or benefit. 48% pay nothing, zip, nada! Freeloaders sucking off the tit of the government, and bitching and moaning how everyone else isn't paying enough so they can have more. We need everyone to have some skin in the game, no longer can half this country have a free ride.

[Faldur]

We've borrowed $103.78 billion since this thread started 23 days ago....

[trish]

75 billion of that went to Iraq and Afghanistan. More than 900 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars are allocated each year for the running costs (not interest due) on the two wars in the Middle East.

[Faldur]

75 billion of that went to Iraq and Afghanistan. More than 900 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars are allocated each year for the running costs (not interest due) on the two wars in the Middle East.

Three wars Trish, your forgetting our new field trip to Libya, and why are we continuing to spend it? Just last week we forgave $3 billion in debt to Egypt and handed them another $2 billion, why?

[trish]

Oh so the world is better off without Saddam (price tag one trillion dollars), but not better off with a politically neutralized Khaddafi (price tag a few billion dollars)?

Every page of this thread needs one of these ->

[Faldur]

Oh so the world is better off without Saddam (price tag one trillion dollars), but not better off with a politically neutralized Khaddafi (price tag a few billion dollars)?

You'd be hard pressed to find a quote from me saying were better off without Saddam. I think Iraq has been a cataclysmic failure, and I will toss Afghanistan in with that. And now on to Libya?

Its time to act like adults and admit our mistakes, hell blame the whole thing on me. But end the wholesale spending and bring our young men and women home.

[yodajazz]

In 2008 the top 2% income earners paid 48% of all income taxes collected. Yoda how much is enough, at what point will you feel vindicated that the evil rich people have been adaquatly hosed?

So the rich have been loosly identified as making $200,000 or more per year. Our current year deficit is $1.5 trillion dollars. In 2010 there were 4,359,936 filers in that category. So if we do the simple math and divide $1.5 trillion by the 4,359,936 bastards that have the gaul to be ambitious, we get $344,041.70 for each rich bastard.

So to pay for our over bloated wasteful government we will send the bill to the over $200k earners and we have this one year balanced. In doing so we just wiped out the wealth of 4.4 million people but who cares they were rich!

You can't tax your way out of this, its impossible sorry. We can make strives in raising taxes moderately on all working citizens. Giving the non tax paying 48% of americans a little ownership in their country by taxing them a whopping 3% makes sense.



All of which pays nothing into the treasury as income tax. 48% of this country are a drain on society. I do not care what you pay for in SS, Unemployment tax, property tax, sales tax.. every working person pays those fee's, each of which goes to fund a specific service or benefit. 48% pay nothing, zip, nada! Freeloaders sucking off the tit of the government, and bitching and moaning how everyone else isn't paying enough so they can have more. We need everyone to have some skin in the game, no longer can half this country have a free ride.

First, according to one source, income tax is 40% of federal income and 25% of total taxes, which include state and local taxes.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2111746AA7xTqR
The top 2% earners probably pay 0% of Social Security taxes. And it is my understanding that SS collections are 'borrowed' for other government functions.

I know that wealth, is different than income, because it includes the value of property and assets. However the top 25% control 87% of the nation's wealth. The middle 50% have 13% of the total. And the bottom 25% have 0%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States
The owning of wealth has to do with assets, besides income. If you dont own anything of value, its more difficult to gain, compared to someone who already has assets, through inheritance, as just one example. So yes, ambition is a factor in gaining greater wealth, but circumstances probably play a bigger factor. People of my philosophy call it blessings. Blessing are things which you are given, not necessarily earned. Take for example, I was reading a statistic on race and inheritance. It said the average Black who recieved an inheritance is about $2,000, whereas the average White, receives about $20,000. So is it really that Blacks are less ambitious or that whites have a ten to one headstart in that regard?

I take real exception to people being called "drains on society". For example take a person who raised a family, and then retired. Part of their overall support system was that they knew they would have Social Security. So why should they considered to be a drain on society, when they made have worked in a steel factory, or built cars. There is no sin in being rich. The 'sin' is believing that you are successful because you are so much better, and that people are not because they are lazy. I see that type of philosophy lots of time on comments these days. This is the real downfall of our nation. Imagine being injured, in combat, defending the nation, and then being a called a 'drain on society' by someone being born into privledge. If you are blessed, it best to be thankful, not arrogant.

[trish]

I take real exception to people being called "drains on society". For example take a person who raised a family, and then retired. Part of their overall support system was that they knew they would have Social Security. So why should they considered to be a drain on society, when they made have worked in a steel factory, or built cars. There is no sin in being rich. The 'sin' is believing that you are successful because you are so much better, and that people are not because they are lazy. I see that type of philosophy lots of time on comments these days. This is the real downfall of our nation. Imagine being injured, in combat, defending the nation, and then being a called a 'drain on society' by someone being born into privledge. If you are blessed, it best to be thankful, not arrogant.

[Faldur]

I take real exception to people being called "drains on society". For example take a person who raised a family, and then retired. Part of their overall support system was that they knew they would have Social Security. So why should they considered to be a drain on society, when they made have worked in a steel factory, or built cars. There is no sin in being rich. The 'sin' is believing that you are successful because you are so much better, and that people are not because they are lazy. I see that type of philosophy lots of time on comments these days. This is the real downfall of our nation. Imagine being injured, in combat, defending the nation, and then being a called a 'drain on society' by someone being born into privledge. If you are blessed, it best to be thankful, not arrogant.

Its simple, your so called person who raised a family, and then retired. If he/she was part of the 48% that do nothing to contribute to the cost and expense of running our general government they have been a drain. In other words our country would have been better off without them in it. Sorry if that hurts, but its true.

Government costs money to run, and it needs funds to continue. If 48% of the working citizens are paying nothing for their country to operate they are leaching off the good nature and expenses of others. It's just as if a neighbor came down and banged on your door and demanded you buy him dinner. Just because you work hard for your family and he doesn't feel he needs to.

Truth hurts Trish, I know. But I don't see how "sin" can be of any issue here. This is plain and simple about ownership and responsibility. When our country was founded you had to own property to vote. The founders believed that you had to have skin in the game, be a participating member of the family to have an opinion/vote. There is something to be said for that, to ask each working member of our country to pay 3% to help support the government that serves them only makes sense.

And disability or any other type of handicap/debilitating injury is not in this discussion. Were talking healthy working americans.