60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

[trish]

That's way less than the number of gallons spilled in 12 days by BP last year, and way less than what that spillage cost our economy. If congress doesn't vote to raise the debt ceiling, Boehner is just telling the world that we refuse to pay our debts. That's fine by me, but then I think the conservatives need to remove "In God We Trust" from our money, 'cause clearly they no longer do.

[Silcc69]

Well for starters I choose not to work at Walmart, nor Mcdonald's or Burger King. They are a law abiding employer who pays on average 133% above minimum wage.

Slicc would you consider working for Walmart a permanent full time job? Once upon a time I worked taking tickets at a movie theatre for $1.57 per hour. It was a great way to get money to date chicks but I always knew it was a dead end. Thankfully I earn a bit more than that today.

If you don't like Walmart you have the right not to support them, you have the right not to work for them, and you have the right to try and convince others to do the same.

Uhm it's SILCC not SLICC. Law abiding employer ROFLMAO. So everybody that works at Walmart should just up and leave right? They get paid shitty wages and have so-so benefits. Those Walton kids are worth what 20 billion a piece I think. I've always thought that these jobs that make a killing should pay the employees a living wage where they could live a DECENT life. But I guess you don't feel that way.

[hippifried]

And Hippi why is it so terrible in your opinion to expect results for the hard earned money we spend? To blindly throw money at a problem with no means of judging the impact that money is making is just foolish.

Im obviously no genius, but I think I know a little something about what I'm talking about.

Oh You don't think there's been any results from the "Great Society" programs? Based on what? You don't know what you're talking about. Not just this, but the whole topic of money. You've got this whole simplistic grade school approach goin' on. That doesn't even work on the micro level, let alone macro. This isn't a credit card or anything resembling one. This isn't a household & can't be thought of in the same way. The government's not a business, & it's not supposed to turn a profit. None of your analogies work in reality or explain anything resembling reality. Raw numbers mean nothing if you don't take inflation into account. A trillion $ today is the same as less than $100 billion in the VietNam era. So for all these dollar amounts you keep slinging around as the end of civilization, I have a question. Compared to what? Do you have even the slightest comprehension of what kind of results these draconian austerity measures you're promoting would have? Just take a look at the relations between the 3rd world & the IMF or World Bank. You guys seem hell bent on destroying this nation & turning it over to international speculators who have no loyalties.

The only successful fascist was Franco. Take a look at Spain today & see how that turned out. Really. To listen to you guys , one would think we're not the world's largest economy. You're trying to put us in the same category as the European PPIGS. You're full of shit, confused, & don't know what you're talking about.

[Faldur]

Hippi the "you don't know what your talking about" argument has gotten old. You use it anytime someone disputes your opinion. Its almost as bad as "your just repeating what you hear". Both are complete bullshit.

Do you have even the slightest comprehension of what kind of results these draconian austerity measures you're promoting would have? Yes I do, they would initiate a new confidence in government for the people. It would set an example to the rest of the world of true leadership.

Your kind of thinking, "that you people are just to dumb to understand why we need to spend and borrow so much", (I know that's not a quote from you but a good summary of your point), is exactly how we got here. Irresponsible spending, and governing by people who think they are smarter than everyone else. As I have stated I'm not a genius, but I'm start enough to see how to get this country rolling again.

Trish I'm not sure I see the point. Republicans caused the oil spill? Really?

SILCC my bad, misspell was not intentional.

[trish]

I'm not sure I see the point.

Of course you don't, you don't seem to have a comprehension of relative sizes and magnitudes. When you can't even figure a percentage, best keep your mouth shut.

[Faldur]

best keep your mouth shut.

Ya.. thats not going to happen

[hippifried]

"True leadership" is telling the world that the US is broke, can no longer lead economically, & will probably default? Or maybe "true leadership" is capitulating to international speculators & other monied interests that have no ties of loyalty to the US.

As a nation, we have expenditures. It's all part of the pact we made with ourselves "to form a more perfect Union, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, & secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves & our Posterity". How is any of that achieved by the scorched earth policies you're promoting, Faldur? You want to balance the budget? Just make sure everything's accounted for. Oh that's right, we've started doing that again. Reducing the deficit is a different thing. Reducing the debt is something else altogether. We can't reduce anything by whittling away at "non-defence" discretionary expenditures that don't jive with whatever self-righteous pseudo philosophy you want to promote this week to hang onto some fringe voting block. We can't cut our way out of deficit spending, even if we didn't care whether we could continue to do the things we want to do. The biggest entitlement is debt service. Everybody, including you, knows that the only way out of this deficit is to raise taxes. The only thing in the way is an ersatz philosophy that says we can grow our way out of it if we just cut off our revenue stream.

You still want to stick to this lame story that it doesn't matter whether you know what you're talking about? You're wrong. I don't think people are too dumb to understand what's going on. I think they're just overwhelmed by the constant barrage of lies. All this bullshit fear mongering isn't just dumb, it's dishonest.

[Faldur]

"True leadership" is telling the world that the US is broke, can no longer lead economically, & will probably default?

No, true leadership is saying we've gone down the wrong path. And we are going to make serious changes to correct the problem. To strengthen our country economically, and avoid any thought of default.

How is any of that achieved by the scorched earth policies you're promoting, Faldur?

Let me get this straight. Rolling spending limits back to 2008 is "scorched earth"? And you call me dense.

We can't reduce anything by whittling away at "non-defence" discretionary expenditures that don't jive with whatever self-righteous pseudo philosophy you want to promote this week to hang onto some fringe voting block.

A 10% reduction to ALL government spending repeated for 3 years is not "whittling away at non-defence discretionary expenditures". Its direct reduction in ALL spending. Its nothing more than reversing the skyrocketing grow we have seen in the size of government in the last 3 years. Did I miss something and the government not operate well in 2008?

All this bullshit fear mongering isn't just dumb, it's dishonest.

Who is guilty of being dishonest when facts are called "fear mongering". The debt clock shows the true financial status of our country. You would prefer that we hide or censor those facts? Give grand speeches how the average citizen cannot begin to understand how government needs to continue this insane cycle and that everything will be ok. Sorry, the people of this country are smart enough to see beyond that.

[trish]

Bush tax cuts are the primary cause of our current debt problem; they need to expire.

[Faldur]

Bush tax cuts are the primary cause of our current debt problem; they need to expire.

The Obama tax cuts were just signed into law, maybe you should take it up with your party. And with a 10% increase in spending annually you can raise the taxes to 100% and you will still be on the short end of the stick.