Muslims

[russtafa]

[quote=Ben;907750]

Jane Fonda. What?!?!?!? She's an old bag -- ha! ha! And, to me, Britney Spears and LiLo are far more important than world affairs -- ha! ha! ha! Kidding.
In my opinion Chris Hedges is absolutely correct. They've nothing to offer the left -- or the right. (This includes the Republicans and the Dems. Both parties are morally bankrupt and kowtow to corporate interests.)
Hence genuine anger from Tea Party members. I mean, legitimate anger. And we've got to address those concerns. The left isn't doing it. A lot of the left is focusing on environmentalism. They aren't dealing with the day-to-day concerns of the vast majority of Americans. And the Republicans are merely serving the super-rich. The party is simply about: enriching the rich. Nothing more. Nothing less. Hence, again, legitimate anger from most Americans.
Mahmoud Al Zahar is a wacko. Just like Stalin was a wacko. Just like Tony Blair is a religious wacko. I mean, what should we have done with respect to Stalin? Invade? And Pakistan is probably the most dangerous country in the whirling world. What should we do with respect to Pakistan? Invade? What about Saudi Arabia? Remember most of the 911 hijackers were Saudi. What should we do? Keep propping them up and buying their oil and making their ENTIRE family trillionaires? And their COMBINED family wealth is in the trillions. (Anyway, I think, part of the solution is to switch to alternative sources of energy and STOP giving these thuggish and brutal regimes billions and billions and billions of our money every single year.)
I think we should stop gallivanting around the world in search of enemies to destroy. (Remember Bush's Axis of Evil speech. I mean, North Korea! What does North Korea have to do with Iraq or Iran?)
I don't buy the argument that they hate us for our freedoms. It's a crock. It's our policies that they don't like. Anyway, I mean, we can, I guess, keep waging wars until the end of time. I mean, so what if we have a $14 trillion debt. So what if we've trillion dollar deficits. So what if Americans are living beyond their means.
I mean, we should get back to some level of FISCAL CONSERVATISM. Look at Obama. He's increased the size of the military budget since Bush left office. I mean, is this fiscally prudent?
Anyway, onmyknees, we've different opinions. You're locked into your opinions. I'm locked into mine. We won't change --
What concerns me is: what the American people want. I'm in the mainstream with respect to public opinion. Americans want to get out of Afghanistan. I, like most Americans, want single-payer health care. I, like most Americans, want increased taxes on the corporate sector. I'm pretty much in the mainstream.
Again, I think public policy should reflect public opinion. That's called: democracy, meaningful democracy. (But not all people favor democracy. It's simply not in the interest of, say, the Koch brothers to have a very meaningful democratic society.)
The problem is: we've two parties [financed and controlled by the corporate sector] who are way to the right of the American people. And Americans know this. Americans don't like that the rich and powerful have so much sway over politics.

not invade isolate like a virus and kill off all exports of that virus

[Prospero]

This strand of the shemale forum is interesting only inasmuch as it displays the range of attitudes here is the same as in the wider world - from blind almost fascistic prejudice to enlightened open minded thoughtfulness - and everything in between. The blind prejudice end seems to dominate. That's life really. Pastor Terry Jones and the mob in Afghanistan are cut from the very same cloth.

[Stavros]

My politics is a world and more away from Hamas, but I wonder how much of what Zahar says in public is ideological froth -Hamas has veered from making inflammatory statements to acknowledging it will negotiate with Israel on realistics terms, but you can find as many offensive remarks about Palestinians made by Israeli politicians so there is nothing unique about such things. Right now Isreal under Netanyahu has deliberately pushed the 'peace process' into a ditch, but it is not clear how either Israel or the two Palestinians blocs, Hamas and the PLO are going to be affected by the Arab Spring. The old politics has been exposed as a failure, and something the people don't want, precisely because it has led them nowhere except the cemetery to bury their dead. However I wonder if the atrophy of political debate and their lack of political skills has meant Palestinians are at the back of the queue for freedom -not good for anyone in the region, including Israel.

[russtafa]

I think religions are for people that are to simple to lead their own lives but the muslim religion is probably the worst example of a religion.Religions are only a philosophy and the heads of these religions use it as a means of controlling their people

[Stavros]

Marx of course called religion 'the opium of the people', but never really asked himself why they need the opium, or believed it was because they were otherwise crushed and depressed by their class situation. Religion, like philosophy or any theory, attempts to offer a simple, coherent explanation of the complex reality of the world we live in. It appeals to people who need to believe there is some 'higher purpose' or 'being' -a Muslim I once knew said 'otherwise what's the point?'. I was inclined to say 'but that is the point'. but it would have been lost on him. Religions also offer, indeed in many cases, demand adherence to rules, dietary rules being of obvious significance, and even if you can explain the prohibition of Pork among Jews and Muslims as the legacy of disease transmission from animals to man, it doesnt make any difference. The bans stays. I don't know that Islam is 'as bad' as the other religions when it comes to their prescriptions for the good life: the Qu'ran is as contradictory as the Bible when it comes to the details, and after nearly 2,000 years Muslims (and others) are still grappling with the meaning of 'Jihad' and 'Hijab' -I suspect thse concepts are re-interpreted in every age, because they mean more than one thing. Ultimately, then, its not the religion per se that is at fault, but the political uses to which some people put it -be it the violent Hindu 'nationalists' in India or the 'God hates fags' 'Christians' sired by Mr Phelps...

[tsnajwa]

this thread deeply saddens and sickens me how you people think... and of all places on a tranny board.. i mean srsly guys? this is just sad and i hope all this hate is a joke

[Stavros]

It is a bit of a rough neighbourhood at times, tsnajwa, the point is to remain committed to your values and not let the buggers get your down...ma'alesh yani!

[onmyknees]

Your hysteria is ugly and I find it disgusting.

It's actually irrelevent what you think about what I think, Trish.....anyone who played the game you played after Tuson should be confined to the margins. My "hysteria" as you put it... is based on fact.....yours on emotion and politics. FAIL.

you're better suited making nasty pornogaphic referrences about Mrs. Trump...it's your style. Stick to it.

[yodajazz]

Marx of course called religion 'the opium of the people', but never really asked himself why they need the opium, or believed it was because they were otherwise crushed and depressed by their class situation. Religion, like philosophy or any theory, attempts to offer a simple, coherent explanation of the complex reality of the world we live in. It appeals to people who need to believe there is some 'higher purpose' or 'being' -a Muslim I once knew said 'otherwise what's the point?'. I was inclined to say 'but that is the point'. but it would have been lost on him. Religions also offer, indeed in many cases, demand adherence to rules, dietary rules being of obvious significance, and even if you can explain the prohibition of Pork among Jews and Muslims as the legacy of disease transmission from animals to man, it doesnt make any difference. The bans stays. I don't know that Islam is 'as bad' as the other religions when it comes to their prescriptions for the good life: the Qu'ran is as contradictory as the Bible when it comes to the details, and after nearly 2,000 years Muslims (and others) are still grappling with the meaning of 'Jihad' and 'Hijab' -I suspect thse concepts are re-interpreted in every age, because they mean more than one thing. Ultimately, then, its not the religion per se that is at fault, but the political uses to which some people put it -be it the violent Hindu 'nationalists' in India or the 'God hates fags' 'Christians' sired by Mr Phelps...

Good points there Stavros. I think Islam, has a giant public relations problem, without having centralized leadership to speak up for it. Its like every bad thing or stupid thing done by Muslims, makes worldwide news, so the only news we get of nearly 1.4 billion peope is when someone gets murdered. It has been like that here with Blacks, except that we have sports and entertainment figures. Plus there seems to be lots of misinformation being put out about Islam.

I think the biggest misconception, is that Muslims consider Christian and Jews, to be non-believers, thus subject to the objects to battle, by the Prophet. This is not true. The Koran, says that Allah is the same God that is in the Bible, and Torah. Many people believe that Allah is somehow a different God. Not true. Another big misconception is that the word 'jihad', means acts of violence. The word, I'm told simply means 'struggle'. One could struggle against being overcome by vices, for example. Thus there is a saying; "the greatest jihad is within." Certainly military force is included in the meaning of jihad,but one could "defend the faith" by writing a letter to a newspaper editor, as an example.

We in the West seem to intuitively understand, that when a Christian kills someone, it is rarely for religious reasons. How many murders are there a year in the US? We seem to understand that when a Christian kills someone, he is usually not following the teachings of his religion. Yet too many people seem to believe that most killing done by Muslims is because of their religion. There are many cultural practices, that of an ethnic origin, that are not sanctioned by the Koran. I believe the practice of "honor killings", is one of these.

Lastly, I consder myself a religious person. I see the belief in God, as a means to feel a common connection, to others, beyond self, community, nationality, etc. It provides mankind witht he understanding that our actions have consequences, beyond what we can see. Of course one can feel this outside of being religious, but with religion, it is practically a given concept. And lots of people dont realize how, religions give comfort from stressful everyday lives. Jesus said, "not to worry about tomorrow". And 2000 years later doctors are saying that stress is the number one killer. Our views of a life and universe governed by order (God), can be the difference between having peace and hope, or living in fear.

[Stavros]

I agree with you here; I think we need to see political Islam as a minority diversion from the mainstream, but the problem is similar to what someone once said of the 'Terror' of Robespierre during the French Revolution: 'ten men can make ten thousand tremble'; bin Laden did not need an army of volunteers, in fact his 'propaganda of the deed' be it East Africa or the USA relied on a few people, but enough to make that appalling difference.

The so-called 'volunteers' of the Provisional IRA and before it the 'Official IRA' and so on, were for the most part devout Catholics with images of the Virgin Mary on their walls -they did not claim to be fighting for a Christian ideal, but clearly had little time for the sermon on the mount -just as Jews one assumes ought to adhere to the 6th Commandment -'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.

Muhammad was affected by his contacts with the Christian and Jewish communities that lived in the vicinity of Mecca and Medina in the 7th century, but most scholars agree that he took more from Judaism than he did from Christianity which, perhaps, was seen as a radical, minority faith at the time; and the Jews were more numerous and powerful in Arabia. Extremists like bin Laden often use the example of the 'community' ('Umma) that was established in Medina as their model for an Islamic state, but cannot deal with the fact that if it was so succeesful, it would not have collapsed after his death -the succession of the 'Rightly Guided Caliphs' (the 'Rashidun') was based on their direct association with the 'Messenger' after which the religion slipped into a long period of doctrinal dispute and political competition from which, in a sense it has never recovered -which is why, as you say, there is no single authority to speak for the religion, and why different parts of the Islamic world have, to some extent, grafted Islam onto their own cultural inheritance. And, as you indicate, it is the minority of Muslims who interpret Jihad as physical violence who get more headlines than the ones who are using 'Jihad' to not have that glass of whisky, a bacon sandwich, or give in to the temptations offered by their best friend's wife...