Covid-19 Politics

[Nick Danger]

The current variant is very different than the virus that emerged in Wuhan. That's not an excuse. Delta provided problems that the original virus did not. Had delta been in circulation in 2020 we'd have been much worse off as it was much more transmissible and also more deadly. In contrast, had delta not emerged when it did, even our meager vaccination program here was quashing cases very quickly, breakthroughs were pretty rare, and people would not have gotten boosted as early as they did.

Omicron has an intrinsic virulence that makes it still deadlier than the flu but less deadly than any other sars2 descended variant. We do go about our business during flu season and even I (a lunger who has been put in the hospital every decade of his life by the flu) do not change my behavior during flu season, except to get a flu shot most years. What to do with some protection against omicron? I'm less worried, but I still don't see the difficulty in wearing a mask. I just worry less.

Pfizer is coming out with an omicron specific vaccine. It's not clear who will get it, though people over 65 should, and I think people generally should because you protect yourself against omicron and anything descended from it. The fact is that when scientists did assays the antibodies our bodies produce in response to the original spike protein were not very good at recognizing the altered spike of omicron. So only really high titers of antibodies made any difference in preventing infection and if we see viruses derived from omicron it would be better to have a broadening of antibody response.

Finally, with deaths what matters is the marginal impact of our choices. Everyone who dies has people who love them and probably enjoys their life, so it seems callous not to take very minor steps to protect other people. It's easy to trivialize death on a mass scale because so many people die every year and the fact is that everybody dies. But nobody wants to die 5 years early or 10 years early or 30 years early. The way people die from covid is especially painful in many cases. This is what er doctors and nurses who are by the bedside of the convalescent have said. The point isn't that we can prevent all pain and suffering in the world, but some of us wonder why we don't prevent what we can when it comes at a very minor cost, like wearing a mask or getting a shot that can help.

The virus is different things to different people and so is the vaccine. Just like "It is what it is" is either a blanket statement by a midwit who's run out of information, or a canny summation of 2,500 years of Buddhist enlightenment.

That's why I was never an anti-vaxxer, Bronco - I always said if you want it, get it. I didn't try to convince anyone they were going to die or have deformed children, or try to make them feel stupid for getting it. Others have not been so courteous to me.

I did get the damn thing a few hours ago. I feel feverish, nauseous, and I have a slight but sharp headache. I feel like I could sleep for a thousand years. I'm going to bed. Have a nice day.

[filghy2]

20 people a day. What a fucking bunch of pussies. Don't grown men have any shame anymore?

I did get the damn thing a few hours ago. I feel feverish, nauseous, and I have a slight but sharp headache. I feel like I could sleep for a thousand years. I'm going to bed. Have a nice day.

Sleep tight Mr Pussy

[filghy2]

Nothing is what Donald Trump said would work

Not quite. Let me refresh your memory on what he actually said.

January 22, 2020: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 7: “It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu… This is deadly stuff.” Trump told Bob Woodward in quotes only released on September 9.

February 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

March 11: “The virus will not have a chance against us. No nation is more prepared or more resilient than the United States.”

March 17: “I’ve always known this is a real — this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic… I’ve always viewed it as very serious.”

April 24: “Then I see the disinfectant which knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside for almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that."
"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn’t been checked but you’re gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way.”

July 28: “I happen to believe in it. I would take it. As you know, I took it for a 14-day period. And as you know, I’m here. I happen to think it works in the early stages.” (on hydroxychloroquine)

You know declining memory is an early indicator of dementia?

[blackchubby38]

Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab - but feared debate could hurt ‘international harmony’


http://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists...211452135.html

[filghy2]

It's literally a common cold now

PS: Can you also share your source on 1600 American deaths from the common cold each day?

I you want to get an answer from ND it seems you have to find it yourself.

There are no data on deaths from the common cold because it's not a single virus and the only way it could kill would be if it you developed something like pneumonia, which would be included in pneumonia deaths. However, there are data on deaths from influenza which show that annual deaths in the US averaged 33,000 over the previous decade, which is about 90 per day. That is one-twentieth of the current death rate from Covid-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

[Stavros]

Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab - but feared debate could hurt ‘international harmony’
l

But look closer at the correspondence -

"“He is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time (to) explain that as an event outside the lab, though there are possible ways in nature but highly unlikely."

“I share your view that a swift convening of experts in a confidence-inspiring framework is needed or the voices of conspiracy will quickly dominate, doing great potential harm to science and international harmony.” (My emphasis in bold).

So it is possible that this was a natural event, and possible that it might have been a leak from a lab. Either way the people concerned, unable to arrive at a defnitive explanation, were keen to prevent the argument becoming part of a conspiracy theory. That seems reasonable to me, not least because some people, Rand Paul is an obvious one, want this to be a conspiracy, either to cover up that it was a lab accident, or a deliberate plan by the Chinese Government. Throw in his persistent claim that Dr Fauci led the American involvement in 'gain of function' research, and you arrive too soon at the very definitive explanations science has not yet agreed upon.

The grim fact is that the Chinese Govt is not going to allow the kind of open investigation and scrutiiny of all the possible routes to the Covid virus that could eiither exonerate the lab in Wuhan, or identify it as the source. Thus we are left with the fact that Politics rather than Science is in command. It is the price we pay for the Autocracy in China even though we don't live there, but must deal with the consequences of Covid regardless of its origins.

[broncofan]

While I try to read and understand most of the debates surrounding this virus, the debate about whether the virus comes from spillover or has been altered in a lab based on its genome and structure is way beyond my level of comprehension. I read that correspondence in the article as people not wanting to make a potentially sensitive accusation prematurely.

I think there was some self-censorship early on as I remember some scientists calling the potential for an accidental leak outlandish. They should have made clear it was one possibility to be explored thoughtfully and that it has the potential to feed conspiracy theories if they are not responsible about how they express themselves.

Most scientists I follow on twitter believe it is more likely that the virus first infected humans at the Wuhan market and was not a leak. I am pretty discriminating in who I follow.

Stavros said it better than I can but look at how the proponents of the "lab leak hypothesis" talk about the subject. They express certainty when they have none and are clearly trying to impugn public health experts because they believe that if it leaked from the lab then "the scientific establishment" created the virus and their views can be discarded. Even accepting their premises this would be a stupid conclusion. If I thought research at a lab was promising and worth investing in and the lab had an accident that was an unlikely event it would not make me responsible for their mistake.

Part of the attractiveness of the lab leak hypothesis is that it gives us a human face to blame. It's easier for us to deal with our angst if we can blame hapless or malicious people rather than a natural process.

[broncofan]

However, there are data on deaths from influenza which show that annual deaths in the US averaged 33,000 over the previous decade, which is about 90 per day.

The Supreme Court is hearing a case that deals with mandates that I haven't been paying much attention to though it's likely important. During oral arguments Justice Neil Gorsuch said something to the effect of, I think the flu kills hundreds of thousands of people a year. The context made clear he was talking about the US. We've got some problems here.

[Nick Danger]

I you want to get an answer from ND it seems you have to find it yourself.

There are no data on deaths from the common cold because it's not a single virus and the only way it could kill would be if it you developed something like pneumonia, which would be included in pneumonia deaths. However, there are data on deaths from influenza which show that annual deaths in the US averaged 33,000 over the previous decade, which is about 90 per day. That is one-twentieth of the current death rate from Covid-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

I was really only speaking figuratively, Flighty, but I will take comfort from the fact that whatever time you spent looking all that up is less time you have to spout liberal horseshit on the internet. BTW I'm not clicking on that link. You might be able to rickroll me at some point down the line but it's definitely not going to be the day after I rolled you.

I'm done talking about this virus. I feel like ass, no energy, headache, sore arm, the vaccine really did a number on me, and now I'm all slept out and I'm just going to have to stay awake and suffer. My body is asking me why I would do something like this to it. "Have I not kept you safe and healthy all these years? Why, Nick? It feels like a betrayal. I want a divorce!"

[Nick Danger]

Okay I'm going to say one last thing about the vaccine and then seriously, I'm done talking about Covid, I'm going to pretend it no longer exists from this point forward in my life. I feel better now. Just fine actually. It took a full day and like 16 hours of fitful sleep. But I feel normal. Fair's fair so I'm sharing all relevant information. And now, goodbye Covid narrative and goodbye Covid arguments.