Progressives Gone Wild

[Stavros]

When he said the Economist was far left I looked up what their views are. They are pro free markets and deregulation. But they apparently don't support immigration policy aimed at trying to maintain white hegemony. As a result they're FAR left.

The Economist occupies a position somewhere between the Institute for Economic Affairs and the Financial Times, but I doubt either of these mean much to people outside the UK. The IEA [f.1955] is rooted in the ideas of Hayek, von Mises and economists of that type, while the FT is focused on daily analysis of business and markets with short medium and long term analysis -and all three have their criticisms of Government and policy.

In the days when I was a reguar reader of the Economist, mostly during the Thatcher era, it had some interesting writers and a touch of sarcasm and sardonic wit, but once I started work in the private sector I realised the magazine can't be taken seriously and have not bothered with it since, I think it's best days are long gone. I read quite a lot of the IEA stuff, mostly because I had to, but to describe the Economist as 'Far Left' is plain ignorance, or a provocation for the sake of it, like condemning Marjorie Taylor Greene for being a Communist, or Joe Biden as the same if not worse.

At some point, and I think we reached it some time ago, the debasement of language disqualifies its terms, while journalism is by definition a temporary if necessary reporter for current events, but no match for sustained analysis of cause and effect.

One can see this in the annual Amercan ritual of 'Thanksgiving'- a celebration of racial violence (1610) or the proof that racial violence can be healed (1864)-? The Economist might well put it 'Thanks for not Giving, just Taking'.

[broncofan]

Republicans know exactly what they want, Bronco - WHITE CULTURAL HEGEMONY.

Has nothing to do with racism, has everything to do with the fact that white culture is objectively superior to other cultures. Oh, that IS racism? Sorry.

It's not that upon first hearing this I would automatically assume championing "white culture" is racist. It's only upon realizing it has no meaning or logically consistent usage that I realize it is. The things you want to claim as aspects of white culture are neither exclusive to white people nor universal among them. I wouldn't even argue in most places they're more prevalent among white people. I recall a white kid in university complaining about Asian students in pre-med studying very hard and denying him his rightful place in medical school. Was this work ethic not the work ethic he had in mind? When an Asian person works hard how can we denigrate them?

You seem to think that working hard or being wealthy is intrinsically white. I'd argue it's been made easier by the lack of institutional barriers to becoming wealthy for most white people, but I also think you would only champion wealth for white people and you'd think it has a different character when wielded by a non-white. Would a Middle Eastern oil baron be seen as good? Would a Jewish financier been seen as good or somehow unseemly? Even more than all the wasps who got wealthy by taking over major industries, abusing their workers, and creating American dynasties of spoiled rich shmucks? What about a Black person who gets rich? Are you going to be okay with that or will you suddenly argue that there's something different about their wealth? Or that the way they're rubbing your face in it is now unseemly? If a Black person who is richer than you buys a nice car will he lack the same dignity as a rich white person who buys a yacht and wears stupid golf pants?

I think this racist essentialism is laid bare by the history of exclusive country clubs in this country. These clubs did not simply want rich members. If you were Desi Arnaz and Cuban you were undesirable. Desi was rich. Desi was funny and worked hard. But was there something different about his wealth or his work ethic?

[Nick Danger]

It's not that upon first hearing this I would automatically assume championing "white culture" is racist. It's only upon realizing it has no meaning or logically consistent usage that I realize it is. The things you want to claim as aspects of white culture are neither exclusive to white people nor universal among them. I wouldn't even argue in most places they're more prevalent among white people. I recall a white kid in university complaining about Asian students in pre-med studying very hard and denying him his rightful place in medical school. Was this work ethic not the work ethic he had in mind? When an Asian person works hard how can we denigrate them?

You seem to think that working hard or being wealthy is intrinsically white. I'd argue it's been made easier by the lack of institutional barriers to becoming wealthy for most white people, but I also think you would only champion wealth for white people and you'd think it has a different character when wielded by a non-white. Would a Middle Eastern oil baron be seen as good? Would a Jewish financier been seen as good or somehow unseemly? Even more than all the wasps who got wealthy by taking over major industries, abusing their workers, and creating American dynasties of spoiled rich shmucks? What about a Black person who gets rich? Are you going to be okay with that or will you suddenly argue that there's something different about their wealth? Or that the way they're rubbing your face in it is now unseemly? If a Black person who is richer than you buys a nice car will he lack the same dignity as a rich white person who buys a yacht and wears stupid golf pants?

I think this racist essentialism is laid bare by the history of exclusive country clubs in this country. These clubs did not simply want rich members. If you were Desi Arnaz and Cuban you were undesirable. Desi was rich. Desi was funny and worked hard. But was there something different about his wealth or his work ethic?

Who are these wealthy black people being discriminated against? Did Snoop Dogg get kicked out of his HOA or something? Oprah being forced to use a different bathroom at Tiffany's?

White culture arose from capitalism, it's ALL about money. All our behaviors which, as you say, are not exclusive to white culture but are definitely part of it, came about from the requirements of living in capitalism. It's not that having money automatically makes you okay to have as a neighbor. It's that the standards via which most people achieve financial success in this country automatically dictate that if you have enough money to be my neighbor, you must adhere to most of those standards, which ideally should add up to you being a quality human being.

White people are hard on each other. Any hint of scandal or criminal behavior is frowned on. Any sign that you're not financially and emotionally self-reliant is taken as a sign you don't belong. There's plenty of hypocrisy, but it's the standard that matters, not the individual. Our favorite farewell is "Take care!" As in, "Take care of yourself because no one else is going to fucking take care of you."

And I suppose what you envision is some nouveau riche black lottery winner straight out of the housing projects, suddenly finding himself living in the middle of Whitopia. Pretty sure there have been sitcoms and movies about that, but in reality it isn't something to concern yourself over. People adjust.

Sometimes the wrong people are forced to adjust. Sometimes the adjustment being demanded represents injustice. That's at the core of the current racial unrest. That and the non-stop race baiting by the liberal media.

Far as our exclusive country clubs, Bronco, well, I mean, so? Nearly all of them are being sued into compliance with modern standards of non-discrimination based on race and gender, but I think that's ridiculous. Is there simply no acceptable circumstance under which white men are allowed to enjoy each other's company? Can't even have a round of golf together, too evil?

[filghy2]

I think this racist essentialism is laid bare by the history of exclusive country clubs in this country. These clubs did not simply want rich members. If you were Desi Arnaz and Cuban you were undesirable. Desi was rich. Desi was funny and worked hard. But was there something different about his wealth or his work ethic?

The giveaway is the Republican attitude these days towards non-white immigration , especially Hispanics. We are talking about people who predominantly want to come to the US to work hard and better themselves, who believe in religion and family, and come from a European heritage - all supposedly Republican values. And this is not just about illegal immigration - the Trumpists sharply cut the authorised immigration program and wanted to go even further.

[Nick Danger]

The giveaway is the Republican attitude these days towards non-white immigration , especially Hispanics. We are talking about people who predominantly want to come to the US to work hard and better themselves, who believe in religion and family, and come from a European heritage - all supposedly Republican values. And this is not just about illegal immigration - the Trumpists sharply cut the authorised immigration program and wanted to go even further.

Zero immigration is what I favor, Flighty. Is that a problem for you? Sorry, we're full unless you've got something to contribute besides one more vote for Democratic charity. Under what set of guidelines, moral or otherwise, is the USA obligated to accept immigrants? Yours?

[filghy2]

Zero immigration is what I favor, Flighty. Is that a problem for you?

As I've already told you, I live in a normal, civilised country so why would I want to move to your 'shithole' country?

[Nick Danger]

As I've already told you, I live in a normal, civilised country so why would I want to move to your 'shithole' country?

Then why in God's name do you give the slightest fuck what our immigration policy is?

[filghy2]

Then why in God's name do you give the slightest fuck what our immigration policy is?

People have no reason to care about anything that doesn't affect them directly? I guess that's another handy reason to dismiss any racism concerns.

I hesitate to ask, but would your rationale for zero immigration be something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

[Nick Danger]

People have no reason to care about anything that doesn't affect them directly? I guess that's another handy reason to dismiss any racism concerns.

I hesitate to ask, but would your rationale for zero immigration be something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

My objection to immigration is purely cultural. I don't believe in multi-culturalism. Are my ears supposed to perk up on hearing that my new neighbor is from some 3rd-world shithole, or worse yet, Europe? "Oh, that's fantastic, now I'm going to learn new dances! We'll eat boiled aardvark testicles at cookouts and pick lice off each other's heads!" Nah, give me a guy I can talk college football with instead.

[filghy2]

Well that's okay. You're not a racist, just a xenophobe. Are you one of those people who goes overseas and insists on eating exactly what you eat at home? Or maybe one of the two-thirds of Americans who don't even have a passport?