Coronavirus

[rodinuk]

And in Germany the Average life expectancy is higher then ever before... why is that if so many people died on covid

How is this possible in the worst pandemic ever? In a dangerous pandemic the average life expectancy should be decreasing, not increasing!

Because ~60K is 0.08% of the population so it’s not going to adversely affect the life expectancy figure to any great degree so if it was trending upwards it will continue to reflect that for some time. It would have to offset all other positive/negative factors for it to make some kind of step change in that timescale.

You cannot claim this to be the worst pandemic ever, have that disproved by fact and then try to claim you were only talking about the present time and want to ignore the fact that’s just plain dishonest.

No thats not a argument... coz any disease is more deadly for older people.

I believe Malaria is one of a number of diseases which is more deadly in children than in adults.

I’m happily double-jabbed by the way, my choice. Several examples of anti-Vaxxers dying from Covid advising other people to have the jab from their hospital bed, benefits of hindsight I suppose.

[binneu]

Again, the average age at death has increased.... not even stagnated!
And tell me... how old is the average corona death?
(https://www.welt.de/regionales/hambu...Jahre-alt.html)
In germany 2020 it was 82... and what is the normal life span in germany?

And you name it by yourself... its 0.08% (0.06% in Germany)!
99.92% died on something else... but we all focus 15 month on this 0.08%?
And on top of that... how many of these 60k people realy died ON covid and not WITH civid?
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...esursache.html

Oh pls no... we dont talk about afica and malaria, and the sky and the moon now...
Lets pls focus on western countries and corana to keep this short... its complicated enoug!

You can take as much as vaxxines as you want... feel free!
But respect my decision as well!


And one not medical point... why do they not discuss this topics in media?
Why are all these opinions in the mainstream media undermined and censored?
And when in the past were the people who censor and suppress other opinions right?
Just think about it for some minutes...

[rodinuk]

Why do you bother even posting asking for discussion when you’ve twice now posted a condescending, patronising shutdown comment refusing to listen to fact. Decision making is something most people will make on the basis of gathering information and making a choice based on that and their opinion and experience. I guess you don’t like the facts getting in the way of your “truth”

[broncofan]

5. New cases in Israel are higher than ever. Deaths are not higher than ever. https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/israel/

Just to piggyback on this point, I changed both the daily infection and daily death histograms to 7 day moving averages just to avoid occasional reporting surges. The death rate (deaths per diagnosed infection) in Israel is less than one third of what it was with a more virulent variant in circulation (link below).

Israel has an average of 10,000 new cases now compared to a previous high of about 8,000. The average number of deaths per day now is about 25. At peak it was 62. This is a death rate of about .25% compared to .775%, or less than one third.

More than 30% of Israel's population is not vaccinated. Of those who are vaccinated, we've seen that effectiveness against disease wears off quicker than effectiveness against hospitalization and death. We also should consider that studies have shown that delta is not just more transmissible but more virulent than previous variants that were circulating when Israel had its previous high in January 2021. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...ion-risk-study

When you look at the effectiveness of the vaccine against death and hospitalization within each age group they are more than 90% effective. If someone told you that you could decrease your chance of death by a factor of close to 10 by getting a shot that gives most people a sore arm and headache wouldn't a rational person do it?

[broncofan]

But it makes no sense to talk about the effectiveness of vaccination coz my point is the
virus is not even deadly! (see 1 and 2)

It is deadly though. More than 4 million people have died from it. And the death rates among vaccinated people are far lower.

The graph below is based on data sets from Israel. If you were between 70-79 would you prefer to have a chance of getting severe disease of 190 per 100,000 or 19 per 100,000?

[filghy2]

Again, the average age at death has increased.... not even stagnated!
And tell me... how old is the average corona death?
(https://www.welt.de/regionales/hambu...Jahre-alt.html)
In germany 2020 it was 82... and what is the normal life span in germany?

I think you just demonstrated the irrelevance of your own argument. If the average age of Covid death is close to the average age from all causes then it can't affect the overall average, no matter how many people die of Covid. It tells us nothing about the seriousness of the disease.

[filghy2]

Im not saying i know the whole truth in any aspect... but you should take into acount what the citics say also! Your "death rate would have been incredibly higher" is not any proof.
How high they would by and why?
Do you have any argument why you think so? I have one... its still called sweden.

If nothing is done to stop it a virus will keep spreading until it runs out of new people to infect (herd immunity). For the now-dominant Delta variant that would require more than 80% of the population to gain immunity, either from previous infection or vaccination. Without effective vaccines an estimated fatality rate of around 0.5% would mean about 0.4% of the population could die (more than 30 million people worldwide).

The death rate can now be reduced significantly by vaccines, though you seem to doubt even that. However, vaccines weren't available until late 2020, and most of the world's population is still unvaccinated. If people had taken your view that there was no health emergency then obviously we would not have got these vaccines developed in record time.

Even with vaccines, deaths in a number of countries that did less well in controlling the virus have reached 0.2% of the population or more. In Sweden it is 0.14%, and it's not true that they did nothing. There were restrictions on some activities and they also relied on people following the guidelines. Most Swedes are probably more sensible than you seem to be. In any case, the Swedish economy seems to have done even worse than it's neighbours, so it's not clear what benefit they got from accepting a higher death rate.
https://news.yahoo.com/half-sweden-d...115500722.html

[binneu]

It is deadly though. More than 4 million people have died from it. And the death rates among vaccinated people are far lower.

The graph below is based on data sets from Israel. If you were between 70-79 would you prefer to have a chance of getting severe disease of 190 per 100,000 or 19 per 100,000?

Could it be possible that the vaxxined dont get testet as much as the unvaxxinated?

[binneu]

I think you just demonstrated the irrelevance of your own argument. If the average age of Covid death is close to the average age from all causes then it can't affect the overall average, no matter how many people die of Covid. It tells us nothing about the seriousness of the disease.

No i just explained why the average age of death didnt change... coz they died in the same age as always.
Maybe they would have died anyway... also without this "pandemic"?
So if people get 82 years old, with or without covid... how can you say covid is dangerous if nothing changed actually?

[binneu]

If nothing is done to stop it a virus will keep spreading until it runs out of new people to infect (herd immunity). For the now-dominant Delta variant that would require more than 80% of the population to gain immunity, either from previous infection or vaccination. Without effective vaccines an estimated fatality rate of around 0.5% would mean about 0.4% of the population could die (more than 30 million people worldwide).

The death rate can now be reduced significantly by vaccines, though you seem to doubt even that. However, vaccines weren't available until late 2020, and most of the world's population is still unvaccinated. If people had taken your view that there was no health emergency then obviously we would not have got these vaccines developed in record time.

Even with vaccines, deaths in a number of countries that did less well in controlling the virus have reached 0.2% of the population or more. In Sweden it is 0.14%, and it's not true that they did nothing. There were restrictions on some activities and they also relied on people following the guidelines. Most Swedes are probably more sensible than you seem to be. In any case, the Swedish economy seems to have done even worse than it's neighbours, so it's not clear what benefit they got from accepting a higher death rate.
https://news.yahoo.com/half-sweden-d...115500722.html

Again... I question the test and the assessment of the danger. That's why all the vaccination dissections are relatively pointless.
Why should I vaccinate myself against something I don't think is dangerous.

Since the test isn't really any good, you can't determine mortality.

Let us please concentrate on clarifying the question of dangerousness! The vaccination is for me downstream!