Political sectarianism in America

[filghy2]

And why does no one ever want to talk about the cost of the lockdown? Suicides are at an all-time high. Depression is at an all-time high. Crime statistics are through the roof.

I'm wondering how you know this given suicide data for 2020 don't appear to be available yet. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

Do you have any source, or did you just make shit up again? There were about 47,500 suicides in 2018 so it's pretty unlikely additional suicides would be anywhere near the number of Covid deaths.

[Nick Danger]

I'm wondering how you know this given suicide data for 2020 don't appear to be available yet. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

Do you have any source, or did you just make shit up again? There were about 47,500 suicides in 2018 so it's pretty unlikely additional suicides would be anywhere near the number of Covid deaths.

Is that the criteria we need to look at, Flighty, is that where humanity is at on this thing? Do we need the number of suicides to exceed the number of covid deaths before we can start going to the fucking movies again? Because that's pretty goddamn dystopian, Flighty, pretty goddamn callous.

On the other hand, I do know a couple of people who are very depressed right now. I could do my part to accelerate the end of this thing by gifting them a Dostoevsky book or something.

[broncofan]

If more people were committing suicide would we know whether they were committing suicide because of quarantine measures or because they lost a loved one to covid? It seems pretty plausible to me that someone could watch their spouse die after a thirty day fight on a ventilator and commit suicide. Some people might also be depressed if others choose to quarantine but they are allowed out. We can't force everyone to pretend there isn't a deadly virus out there. The response to mental health problems should be increased access to care.

The fact is, the world is different. Shouldn't we make sure people with mental health problems have health insurance and support services?

[broncofan]

Some people might also be depressed if others choose to quarantine but they are allowed out.

What I mean is that during a pandemic a lot of people are going to voluntarily modify their behavior. Even depressives might isolate themselves because they are afraid of getting a virus. It's not easy to know whether it's government measures that increases isolation or lots of people making choices. The world is not conducive to the kind of socialization we're used to. Some people are especially vulnerable because of that. Shouldn't we be concerned about providing support services? Health insurance plans that include behavioral health benefits?

Or is this posturing? Early in the pandemic a Republican told me they were concerned that our preoccupation with Covid meant there would be less vaccination for measles in Africa. I'm not joking, they sent me an article telling me they thought we shouldn't be concerned about covid because it would prevent people from paying attention to other infectious diseases. They didn't send me any articles when the U.S. pulled out of the WHO though.

[Nick Danger]

If more people were committing suicide would we know whether they were committing suicide because of quarantine measures or because they lost a loved one to covid?

I'm not the one to speculate on people's reasons for suicide. I've met some real low-life sacks of shit in this life with nothing whatsoever to live for who slogged through it all to a ripe old age, but I also had a close friend - good-looking guy, California surfer dude with an unusually sharp intellect, great sense of humor, the world was his oyster - hang himself with his own belt off the top of a fence in Santa Cruz back in the 90's. Guy was 31 years old.

But I'll link the article about what has me reflecting on the increased suicides at the moment, and I think it's safe to say that this one can be attributed directly to the quarantine itself - https://nypost.com/2021/02/23/pole-d...ring-lockdown/

[Nick Danger]

Shouldn't we be concerned about providing support services? Health insurance plans that include behavioral health benefits?

If you're testing me to find out exactly how much of an asshole I am, I think you're about to find out, Bronco.

I have very, very little sympathy for people's mental health problems. What some people call "ADHD" I call "stupid." What some people call "clinical depression" I call "living wrong." When a court rules that a defendant isn't responsible for his actions because he's criminally insane, I mutter to myself, "Oh, well I guess nobody's responsible then." I believe that all a marriage counselor can accomplish is teach a couple how to lie to each other with more enthusiasm, and I don't believe there's any such thing as autism.

I'm remembering right now a Louis CK routine where he's going through a series of examples of something he calls "Of course...but maybe..." He's talking about kids with peanut allergies. "Of course, children with nut allergies need to be protected. Of course! We need to segregate their food from nuts, have their medication available at all times, and anyone who manufactures or serves food needs to be aware of deadly nut allergies. Of course! But maybe...maybe...if touching a nut kills you, you're supposed to die."

That's kinda how I feel about most people's "Woe is me" problems. Of course we should be concerned about providing mental health support services and health insurance that includes behavioral health benefits. Of course! But maybe...maybe...maybe if you're suicidal, you're better off dead. Maybe if you're depressed, you're the weak link. Maybe if you can't hack it, that's your fucking problem, we've all got our ration of shit to deal with out here, pal.

I don't want to be too over-the-top here, I'm exaggerating a LITTLE, I am peripherally aware that there do exist legitimate mental health problems. But I think most of those people are just whiners.

Edit:

[filghy2]

That's kinda how I feel about most people's "Woe is me" problems. Of course we should be concerned about providing mental health support services and health insurance that includes behavioral health benefits. Of course! But maybe...maybe...maybe if you're suicidal, you're better off dead. Maybe if you're depressed, you're the weak link. Maybe if you can't hack it, that's your fucking problem, we've all got our ration of shit to deal with out here, pal.

So after telling us that we should worry less about Covid and more about suicides and depression you now tell us that we shouldn't worry so much about these things either because it's probably their own fault?

I take it you have no source on your claim that suicides are at an all-time high.

[Nick Danger]

So after telling us that we should worry less about Covid and more about suicides and depression you now tell us that we shouldn't worry so much about these things either because it's probably their own fault?

I take it you have no source on your claim that suicides are at an all-time high.

I couldn't sleep because I realized I had forgotten to give you a source, Flighty.

Here's one - https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 - stating that "widely reported studies modeling the effect of the covid-19 pandemic on suicide rates" indicate an increase of 1% to 145%. So it's an assumption. Based on studies. But it's a damn good assumption considering it makes perfect sense.

Also, I'm not telling you it's the victims' fault, I'm telling you it's your fault. For being foolish enough not to see the oh-so-simple solution to the whole problem, short-sighted enough not to realize that there are some people who are literally going to promote this lockdown (and therefore their own place in the international spotlight) FOREVER if we let them (Fauci's already setting us up into 2022), and for being panicky enough to accept any "solution" that's offered, no matter how fucked it leaves us in the end. Because you don't want to be sick. What a bunch of fucking cowards and babies.

[Stavros]

CPAC will be in the news over the next few days, and not because of the 'Graven Image' of Trump that has been set up to the greater glory of himself, but because if this is what the speakers are like, how does one define American Conservatism? Sounds to me like a conference of Neo-Nazis, Fascists and anti-American Insurgents...

"Arizona Reps. Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs, both of whom helped organize the Jan. 6 “Stop the Steal” rally, are CPAC panelists this year.

Gosar has ties to the far-right militia Oath Keepers, whose members were deeply involved in the storming of the Capitol. The leader of an Arizona chapter recently claimed Gosar once told Oath Keepers that America was already in a civil war. “We just haven’t started shooting yet,” Gosar allegedly said. (The congressman has yet to respond to this claim.)
Gosar’s extremist resume is long. He once traveled to London to speak at a rally in support of a jailed anti-Muslim activist; he went to Nevada to support far-right militiamen in an armed standoff with federal authorities; and he’s posed for a photo with a member of the neo-fascist Proud Boys, another group with a large presence at the insurrection. Gosar will be speaking on a CPAC panel Saturday called “Sell Outs: The Devaluing of American Citizenship.”

Biggs, the other Arizona congressman, has spoken at events hosted by multiple extremist groups, including a 2015 gathering of the Oath Keepers where a member called for hanging the late Sen. John McCain. Biggs will speak on a panel Friday about the Second Amendment.
Joining him on that panel is Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), the pistol-carrying freshman lawmaker with a history of associating with far-right militia groups, including the Three Percenters, another organization implicated in the insurrection. (“I am the militia,” Boebert tweeted last year.) Boebert also supports the QAnon conspiracy movement, which believes there’s a globalist cabal of pedophiles, many of them Democrats, waging war against Trump. Many QAnon faithful participated in the insurrection on Jan. 6.

“Today is 1776,” Boebert tweeted that morning before the storming of the Capitol, a reference to the Revolutionary War. "
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/cpac-2021-...104500816.html

[broncofan]

So after telling us that we should worry less about Covid and more about suicides and depression you now tell us that we shouldn't worry so much about these things either because it's probably their own fault?

I read his concern about mental health problems with the same skepticism as I do when a Republican expresses concern about infectious disease in developing countries. You know it's a form of whataboutism and not actually a way to address other humanitarian issues.