Revoking Transgender Civil Rights

[filghy2]

Again this really doesn't go to the issue of rights. This is more of side discussion and it does not address the main issue of rights. We are only strong when we protect the rights of the weak.

I think you are missing the essence of the Nick Danger philosophy, Life.
1. The only thing that really matters is what serves your immediate self interest.
2. The only right that matters is the right to pursue your self interest by any means available.
3. Money matters most because it can buy everything else.
4. Those who succeed are superior and more deserving; those who do not are inferior and undeserving.
5. Anything else is a minor detail that can be rationalised away.

Did I miss anything Nick?

[filghy2]

Lol the electoral college does not need to be abolished. Whoever said US is a “democracy “ it’s a Constitutional republic. It never was meant to be a mob rule democracy.

How ironic that your mechanism to prevent mob rule has given us a president whose standard operating procedure is to whip up his mob with blatant lies. Who makes no secret of his admiration for dictators and clearly doesn't believe in any notion of checks and balances. Rather than a tyranny of the majority we may end up with a tyranny of the minority.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=Nick Danger;1858985]

I'm not avoiding any issues, Stavros. I've stated how I feel. I am pro-rights for everyone; black, brown, gay, female, transgender, young, old, EVERYONE.

-Nothing wrong with this statemet, so I assume means that you are opposed to the proposal that the right of Americans to self-identify other than as Male or Female is a right that must be maintained and not discarded? It doesn't mean the end of America, it costs almost nothing, it provides a degree of security for those who want it. It asks you to respect them, and for them to respect you, a win-win outcome for all.

My rights have nothing to do with my race, my gender, my religion, or any other factors that people frequently cite as the underlying reason for their problems. My rights all derive from the fact that I am a good citizen who makes an effort to be an approachable, contributing member of the community. Nothing more than that.
--And yet, historically, the USA has denied rights to people precisely because of their race, to the extent that they were not even considered citizens at one time, eg in the 19th century. It had and has nothing to do with behaviour, everything to do with prejudice and fear, two negatives that reinforce each other. We went through this in the UK when Jews and Roman Catholics did not have the same rights as everyone else, and I don't need to document the history in the USA, other than, yet again, to argue that for the Obama administration to recognize that gender is not made up of fixed categories, and to extend rights to people who do not consider themselves to be Male or Female was the right thing to do, that it has little or no impact on the security of the USA, and as for behaviour, you can't legislate for that in the sense that you can't force people to be good citizens, though you can punish them for not being good.

Or the real shocker, "Oh dear, I can't believe that police officer shot that two-time ex-felon when all he did was refused to comply with a legal order while reaching into his pants. Must have been because he was black."
-This is the real shocker, for someone claiming to be a realist -it is also offensive in the extreme when you know as well as I do how many Black men have been shot dead by law enforcement when there was no need for the cop to even pull out his gun. How many cases can you cite? A victim shot 16 times -16 times! The number shot who had no opportunity to 'reach into their pants', and so on. If there were not such a grim history of excessive police force being used against young black men, we would not be having this conversation, Black Lives Matter would not exist, and James Brown would have been a crooner not a soul singer with an edge.

You want to walk around looking like a freak? You're gonna be treated like a freak. You want to cop an attitude? You're gonna get treated like a person with no respect for the law. Want to live beyond your means? You're going to get treated like the deadbeat you are. Want to run down the USA? You're gonna get treated like the enemy.
--Nick, what is freedom? Surely one of the outstanding freedoms the USA has conferred on its citizens is the right to walk around looking like a freak -only the definition changes from San Franciso to rural Kansas, Alaska or Nebraska. As for 'running down' the USA -free speech allows you to do just that: but there were some people who did think Martin Luther King Jr was an enemy of the USA, and indeed, he was murdered by an American, where others believe he was an American hero who improved the quality of American democracy. Free speech is what it is, but gives you the right to engage when possible, rather than suppress.

-The President claims the media is 'the enemy of the people', why? Because it does not adore him, because it points out, on an almost daily basis that he is a liar, because his rhetoric is soaked in venom, hate and violence. The man is obsessed with himself and convinced he is the greatest and most popular President in the history of your country. And he wants the media to tell everyone that: to declare it 'the enemy of the people' is infantile on one level, but on another is a tactic borrowed from the playbook of every fascist and every dictator who reigned supreme over their country before seeing it collapse, because of them.

Anyone complaining about his/her rights is a non-conformist. And you might say, "But I have the right to be a non-conformist." Of course you do. And the rest of society has the right to put pressure on you to conform. This is what liberals perceive as a violation of their civil rights. In fact, it is society doing you a big favor, giving you some solid information that you should take to heart. If you don't, that's okay too - America's been dealing out misery to non-conformists for centuries, and they can keep pounding on you until you're beat into the ground like a railroad spike with no harm done to the larger purpose.

--This is the most astonishing thing you have written so far, Nick. The USA was created by non-conformists! The religious communities that emigrated from Britain, the Netherlands and Germany were all non-conformists who were escaping persecution because of that. So maybe the purest American is someone who does not conform, which rather suggests that Transgendered Americans and those who do not self-identify as Male or Female are not just non-conformists, but the purest or pure Americana. Bravo to them!

[filghy2]

There's a reason it's called "society." It's a social gathering of people with a common purpose. You want to set yourself up outside that common purpose, you're going to be treated like an outsider. Your rights will be ignored in favor of teaching you a valuable lesson about how to be an asset to your fellow man instead of a liability.

Cognitive dissonance again, Nick. Here you are telling us about the importance of respecting society's rules, yet you seem to have forgotten that you are supporting Donald Trump, the ultimate self-centred individual who cares nothing about society's standards of behaviour. What sort of society do you imagine we would have if everyone behaved like Trump? You can't have it both ways.

[peejaye]

Why oh why do you waste time on RUBBISH like this Nick? Check your PM box & hopefully we can suffocate these two fucking lunatics

America first, as it should be for all Americans.

[Nick Danger]

Why oh why do you waste time on RUBBISH like this Nick? Check your PM box & hopefully we can suffocate these two fucking lunatics

America first, as it should be for all Americans.

I don't think of this as a waste of time, PJ. This board is an echo chamber when it comes to politics. There are a few conservatives here but none who care to peel their eyes away from all the ass long enough to pose a counter-argument to...well, pretty much everyone else on the board. I can't even remember the last time someone replied to me in agreement, or if it's ever happened at all. No surprise.

My experience tells me, though, that sometimes people will go out of their way to read what I write, even if they don't agree with me, because I try to say things with a little flair and I'm no fool. And these are the people I want to talk to about the problems with liberalism. T-girls are my favorite girls. I'm hoping some of them will realize that there are more important things than which bathroom they use, or whether they're welcome to join the Army they never wanted to join in the first place. The prosperity of the USA affects everyone here much more than minor considerations about civil rights. My message is basically yes, Republicans are assholes. But they're professional assholes, and you need professional assholes in charge of your country whether you realize it or not. Apply some perspective to your vote.

I like Stavros and Flighty. They will NEVER admit that they are wrong about something, and I respect that, I really do. A man isn't a man if he doesn't hold firm on his beliefs. Hell, I drop logic bombs on them non-stop, but they're immune. In this very thread, I had to straighten out Stavros for calling me a liar about Obama increasing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Showed him the articles and everything. He weaseled out of the call-out by fudging the meaning of my original statement a bit, and yeah I could have called him out again. But I let it slide, because backing Stavros into a corner is not what I'm here for. I'm here because I believe very firmly that we need a big Republican win in the mid-terms. Then 4 more years of Trump. After that I'm content to let the Democrats take over for a term or two, give the non-self-reliant and sympathy-driven citizens what they want for a few years. The ebb and flow is important, you can't keep social progress on the back-burner for too long (nor can you shove it down people's throats too hastily).

Anyway, thanks for joining the conversation, PJ.

[peejaye]

Yes, Liberals always step back when reality kicks in, it wipes away the self righteousness & smugness they get from thinking they've put right all the Worlds wrongs. Let them have the last word though Nick or you'll be on here 3/4 times a day like those poor sods are.
Enjoy reading your posts, I can't say that very much in this section.

[dirtrail]

Lol you might want to turn off cnn and msnbc. Get out more often you’ll see the world isn’t as scary as you make it out to be.

How ironic that your mechanism to prevent mob rule has given us a president whose standard operating procedure is to whip up his mob with blatant lies. Who makes no secret of his admiration for dictators and clearly doesn't believe in any notion of checks and balances. Rather than a tyranny of the majority we may end up with a tyranny of the minority.

[Nick Danger]

I think you are missing the essence of the Nick Danger philosophy, Life.
1. The only thing that really matters is what serves your immediate self interest.
2. The only right that matters is the right to pursue your self interest by any means available.
3. Money matters most because it can buy everything else.
4. Those who succeed are superior and more deserving; those who do not are inferior and undeserving.
5. Anything else is a minor detail that can be rationalised away.

Did I miss anything Nick?

Flighty, if I made my own straw-man account I couldn't ask for any better set-up, so thanks in advance.

1. To the contrary, I recommend that one abstain from satisfying one's "immediate self interest" until one achieves financial independence, which is something every single American can and should achieve, barring a failure in motivation or a plastic-surgery disaster.

2. You say that like it's a bad thing, Flighty. The main problem in this country is people who don't pursue their self-interest and expect other people to pursue it for them.

3. By all means, present one counter-argument to "money matters most." Money has always mattered most. Everything has a dollar value, so dollars are the most important thing to have. Name one single thing you can do that you can't do better with more money. Tiptoe through the tulips? Maybe.

4. Success requires sacrifice, Flighty. So who's more deserving, the one who made the sacrifice, or the one who didn't?

5. Did I rationalize away some of your minor details? All apologies, of course.

You've missed a lot, Flighty.

[Nick Danger]

I'm not avoiding any issues, Stavros. I've stated how I feel. I am pro-rights for everyone; black, brown, gay, female, transgender, young, old, EVERYONE.

-Nothing wrong with this statemet, so I assume means that you are opposed to the proposal that the right of Americans to self-identify other than as Male or Female is a right that must be maintained and not discarded? It doesn't mean the end of America, it costs almost nothing, it provides a degree of security for those who want it. It asks you to respect them, and for them to respect you, a win-win outcome for all.

My rights have nothing to do with my race, my gender, my religion, or any other factors that people frequently cite as the underlying reason for their problems. My rights all derive from the fact that I am a good citizen who makes an effort to be an approachable, contributing member of the community. Nothing more than that.
--And yet, historically, the USA has denied rights to people precisely because of their race, to the extent that they were not even considered citizens at one time, eg in the 19th century. It had and has nothing to do with behaviour, everything to do with prejudice and fear, two negatives that reinforce each other. We went through this in the UK when Jews and Roman Catholics did not have the same rights as everyone else, and I don't need to document the history in the USA, other than, yet again, to argue that for the Obama administration to recognize that gender is not made up of fixed categories, and to extend rights to people who do not consider themselves to be Male or Female was the right thing to do, that it has little or no impact on the security of the USA, and as for behaviour, you can't legislate for that in the sense that you can't force people to be good citizens, though you can punish them for not being good.

Or the real shocker, "Oh dear, I can't believe that police officer shot that two-time ex-felon when all he did was refused to comply with a legal order while reaching into his pants. Must have been because he was black."
-This is the real shocker, for someone claiming to be a realist -it is also offensive in the extreme when you know as well as I do how many Black men have been shot dead by law enforcement when there was no need for the cop to even pull out his gun. How many cases can you cite? A victim shot 16 times -16 times! The number shot who had no opportunity to 'reach into their pants', and so on. If there were not such a grim history of excessive police force being used against young black men, we would not be having this conversation, Black Lives Matter would not exist, and James Brown would have been a crooner not a soul singer with an edge.

You want to walk around looking like a freak? You're gonna be treated like a freak. You want to cop an attitude? You're gonna get treated like a person with no respect for the law. Want to live beyond your means? You're going to get treated like the deadbeat you are. Want to run down the USA? You're gonna get treated like the enemy.
--Nick, what is freedom? Surely one of the outstanding freedoms the USA has conferred on its citizens is the right to walk around looking like a freak -only the definition changes from San Franciso to rural Kansas, Alaska or Nebraska. As for 'running down' the USA -free speech allows you to do just that: but there were some people who did think Martin Luther King Jr was an enemy of the USA, and indeed, he was murdered by an American, where others believe he was an American hero who improved the quality of American democracy. Free speech is what it is, but gives you the right to engage when possible, rather than suppress.

-The President claims the media is 'the enemy of the people', why? Because it does not adore him, because it points out, on an almost daily basis that he is a liar, because his rhetoric is soaked in venom, hate and violence. The man is obsessed with himself and convinced he is the greatest and most popular President in the history of your country. And he wants the media to tell everyone that: to declare it 'the enemy of the people' is infantile on one level, but on another is a tactic borrowed from the playbook of every fascist and every dictator who reigned supreme over their country before seeing it collapse, because of them.

Anyone complaining about his/her rights is a non-conformist. And you might say, "But I have the right to be a non-conformist." Of course you do. And the rest of society has the right to put pressure on you to conform. This is what liberals perceive as a violation of their civil rights. In fact, it is society doing you a big favor, giving you some solid information that you should take to heart. If you don't, that's okay too - America's been dealing out misery to non-conformists for centuries, and they can keep pounding on you until you're beat into the ground like a railroad spike with no harm done to the larger purpose.

--This is the most astonishing thing you have written so far, Nick. The USA was created by non-conformists! The religious communities that emigrated from Britain, the Netherlands and Germany were all non-conformists who were escaping persecution because of that. So maybe the purest American is someone who does not conform, which rather suggests that Transgendered Americans and those who do not self-identify as Male or Female are not just non-conformists, but the purest or pure Americana. Bravo to them!

Actually Stavros, the USA was created by fiercely independent conformists. Are you seriously going to try to convince me the PURITANS were NON-CONFORMISTS? Conformity was demanded by threat of being burned at the stake.

The Puritans aren't relevant much today. And there is a pure vision of America held by many people, Stavros. You can see that vision in our wealthier suburbs, where life is pie. That vision doesn't show who is living the American Dream - transgender, black, Hispanic, Jew, gentile, Japanese messy boy, whoever. It only shows how they're living. And it pre-supposes they must have been living quite responsibly up to that point to achieve such wealth.

I know it's hard to accept that there is no real oppression anymore, Stavros. A minor civil rights issue here, a minor civil rights issue there, transgenders having bathroom issues, movie stars claiming they weren't a slut they were raped, etc, etc. But it just doesn't seem that bad when you're watching videos of the Watts Riot, does it? The current agenda of nitpicky griping on the liberal hot-sheet leaves you guys with very little bite to your bark.

I can tell you what freedom is, Stavros. Freedom is something you, personally, earn. Strip away all the institutions around you and you have no rights whatsoever, not even the right to exist. The institutions empower you with rights, but they also demand you serve them in exchange. From the start you are a slave, and only you can earn your freedom. You do it by acquiring money. The institutions want you to be successful and achieve your freedom - at that point you become the purest form of consumer. So they make it easy for everyone to follow the easy steps to financial independence.

But that goes back to something I said to you a few posts ago about Optimized Self-Interest - not everyone has it. And those who don't have it hold the rest of us back. So there's always going to be pressure to improve on those who are not putting in the effort. The pressure is both social and institutional, and it will never go away, it's intrinsic to capitalism.

That pressure is your oppression, Stavros.