Climate change could mean the extinction of our species

[trish]

in maths, where 2 is only equal to 2 and is not equal to any other number.

In maths there is the notion of an equivalence relation which happens to be the notion most appropriate to discussions about equality in moral, ethical and legal contexts. One among many examples of an equivalence relation is congruence modulo two in which all even numbers are ‘equal’ to each other and all odd numbers are ‘equal.’ When we apply the notion of equality to people we do not mean that Fred equals Fred and is equal to no other person in the same way that the number two equals two and to no other number. For example we might say, ‘Fred is equal to RedVex’ and mean they are equivalent under the law, regardless of their differences outside that context. Or we may mean they should be given equal opportunities where we have in mind some equivalent relation among economic opportunities rather than among people. As Stravros pointed out, the philosophical issue of equality among people is multifaceted and complex.

Put a moron and a genius in a group of 30 pupils at school. The natural reaction of the group is that it starts pick on the moron and the genius. The teacher steps in trying to protect the moron as well as the genius, but that only works during school. Both of the exceptional kids will get picked on during breaks or after school as there will be nobody to protect them.

Not necessarily. The ‘natural reaction’ of the group? To what? Being placed together in a classroom? The expectation is that no one will get picked on in the classroom. The expectation is that both the students and teacher achieve a rapport conducive to learning.
Inside the classroom we do not expect all children to perform equally, we do not expect all children learn at the same rate, are interested in the same things, or at the exact same level of development. Some children require more of their teachers than others: the underachiever and the overachiever may be two examples - and generally teachers endeavor to give whatever attention is appropriate. Academically, not all persons, child or adult, are ‘equal.’ We do expect schools, teachers and staff to treat and respect all children equally as persons; and we expect children to learn to treat and respect each other equally as persons. At semester’s end the individual students, with guidance, choose are placed in new classes based upon their performance and their academic ambitions.
What happens outside the classroom? The teacher’s authority extends to the schoolyard gate and no further. But the content of what teachers, parents, family and community teach hopefully extends beyond. ‘That applies to all domains, e.g. economy; not only education.’

Equal opportunity is another example of a socialist idea to create problems, just like the equality one: Because a moron is not equal to a genius, they automatically and naturally do not have equal opportunity to obtain a PhD.

Yes, yes. Once again, two is equal to two and no other number. But two can be equivalent to three depending upon the mathematician’s choice of equivalence relation. Everyone should have the opportunity to find out, should they wish, whether or not they have what it takes to earn a Ph.D. This doesn’t mean we need to lower the entrance criteria to colleges and universities or that we must lower grading standards at public high schools.

Secondly, by "most universities offer (...)" are you trying to say that there are universities, universities, that do not offer "Earth sciences" courses that teach about causes of global warming other than CO2 produced by humans? "Most" is a rather vague term isn't it?

Yes, the statement is somewhat vague but true: most universities offer courses - such as the ones I listed above - that delve into the past climate shifts and their various causes. Moreover, most public schools offer a course one might categorize as ‘Earth Science’ which touches upon the same topics. Any course that discusses the current exponential rise in global atmospheric and oceanographic temperatures will discuss past shifts in climates and their causes. The three factors that most insure this are: 1) it’s good science 2) it’s good pedagogy and 3) the current political situation demands it.

Nope, I believe in science. I also believe in ideologies that have proven to work in practice and I dismiss ideologies that have or have or have been failing.

No you don’t. You don’t even seem to know what science is and what makes the sciences distinct from ideologies and crackpot conspiracy.

If I was born black in an unwelcoming region then I would probably try to move out of it at all cost rather than agitate my neighbours with equality bullshit, unless maybe I wanted to become a martyr.

I don’t know if this says more about your moral character or your ignorance the human condition.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=Ts RedVeX;1810057]

It would indeed be nice if the pseudo scientists pushing global warming finally acknowledged that climate has never been static.
--You dismiss scientists with years of experience as 'pseudo-scientists' for one reason, that you don't agree with them. This is the language of prejudice, not science.

First you say that kids should have freedom - just like their parents - now you say that you are not for equality.
--I do not recall making either of these two points.

Then you suggest you wanna give the same kind of education (although in a vague way by means of "a rounded and balanced education" for American children) to morons as is given to kids with average IQ and the bright, and then again you say you are not for equality.
--The mere fact that you dismiss some children as 'morons' reduces your comments on education to the status of junk, and one can only be relieved that you are nowhere near a classroom.

As to you philosophical thought about tensions between equalities - yes equality is a very specific state, e.g. in maths, where 2 is only equal to 2 and is not equal to any other number. It can be described as some ideal state that rarely occurs in reality. Since maths is a language used for describing how the world works, it is more natural for things to be unequal than equal and any attempts to make things that are unequal equal usually ends up in a costly disaster
--Maths is indeed a language, but like words, it only makes sense because the people who use it agree that 2 is 2, just as we can say 100 people understand the phrase 'this is a red ball' because they collectively agree that 'ball' and 'red' mean the same thing. Analysed further and it may be that no two people have the same understanding of what a ball is, or the colour red.

The equivalent problem in maths emerges when you measure the distance between 0 and 1, or 1 and 2, and what happens when you subdivide 1, because maths then disappears into an infinite sequence of numbers that expresses the dilemma of time and space as we understand it -rather than what it is. Mathematicians create formulas to allow things to function, and do it well, or cars would not run, and bridges not stand. But maths is not and never can be a perfect representation of the world because it cannot express infinity in reasonable language. Even Leibniz accepted this.

Put a moron and a genius in a group of 30 pupils at school..etc etc.
--This cynical rubbish not worthy of a reply.

Speaking of collective responsibility, do you mean the kind of responsibility the Roman soldiers would face all those centuries ago?
--No, and I think you know what I mean by it. You have a collective responsibility where you live not to throw your rubbish into the street but place it in a bin or a bag to be collected by the council -or would you prefer individuals to do what they like, and if that means throwing their garbage outside your door, then so be it?

Acting collectively, we can make a difference to the world we live in for the better. Again, think of planet Earth as your home, and ask yourself how you would like it to be, for yourself and your neighbours.

[broncofan]

Hey bronco:d I found something interesting about Berkeley that may help your imagination, since you mentioned that you "cannot imagine anyone complaining about quality of education it offers". This guy does not seem to be very happy about what is going on there:

I took the following excerpt from the first part of the wikipedia page on Berkeley so I won't take any credit for my research effort. But you can choose to believe Milo Yiannopoulos, or you can actually look at the qualifications of their staff and the expectations they have of their students scholastically. In lieu of the excerpt I've included, you can simply read the entire wikipedia article. I think it speaks for itself but these things rarely do with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...rnia,_Berkeley

Berkeley alumni, faculty and researchers include 94 Nobel laureates (including 34 alumni). They have also won 9 Wolf Prizes, 13 Fields Medals (including 3 alumni medalists), 23 Turing Awards (including 11 alumni awardees), 45 MacArthur Fellowships,[22] 20 Academy Awards, 14 Pulitzer Prizes[23] and 207 Olympic medals (117 gold, 51 silver and 39 bronze).[24] Faculty member J. R. Oppenheimer, the "father of the atomic bomb", led the Manhattan project to create the first atomic bomb. Nobel laureate Ernest Lawrence invented the cyclotron, based on which UC Berkeley scientists and researchers, along with Berkeley Lab, have discovered 16 chemical elements of the periodic table – more than any other university in the world.[25][26] Lawrence Livermore Lab also discovered or co-discovered six chemical elements (113 to 11.[27][28]

For 2017–18, the Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) ranked Berkeley 5th in the world and 1st among public universities. Berkeley is also ranked 18th internationally among research universities in theTimes Higher Education World University Rankings, 6th in the 2017 Times Higher Education World Reputation Rankings.[29] It is additionally ranked 4th internationally (1st among public universities) by U.S. News & World Report.[30]

[Ts RedVeX]

[Stavros]

I took the following excerpt from the first part of the wikipedia page on Berkeley so I won't take any credit for my research effort. But you can choose to believe Milo Yiannopoulos, or you can actually look at the qualifications of their staff and the expectations they have of their students scholastically. In lieu of the excerpt I've included, you can simply read the entire wikipedia article. I think it speaks for itself but these things rarely do with you.

I would also add that the so-called 'Free Speech week' was a stunt organized by a student group -not the University- called the Berkeley Patriot that cancelled the event owing to the cost involved as well as the security issues that it had not properly thought about.
Yiannopoulos who claimed 'libertarian' and conservative speakers like Steve Bannon and Ann Coulter would attend disregarded the wishes of Berkeley Patriot and claimed he would go ahead with a public rally even after the cancellation, but Bannon never committed to going, Coulter dropped out, and one seriously famous conservative thinker, Charles Murray said

“The inclusion of my name in the list of speakers was done without my knowledge or permission.” Murray added that he would never attend an event with Yiannopoulos “[b]ecause he is a despicable asshole.”
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ek-uc-berkeley

[Ts RedVeX]

Good old Monty Python has democracy covered as well

[trish]

They also covered the Republican form of government:

[MrFanti]

Interesting to note that the planet warmed up after each ice age all by itself without man....

[trish]

Yes, the cycle of ice-ages (which includes the warm peaks in between the cold valleys) is due to the precession of the Earth's axis. There have been other climate and atmospheric events that were due to changes in the biosphere; e.g. the oxygenation of the atmosphere was caused by the evolution and massive spread of photosynthetic plants. The exponential jump in global surface temperatures since the industrial age is due to the massive dumping of once geologically sequestered greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere primarily via the global practice of burning fossil fuels.

[MrFanti]

Yes, the cycle of ice-ages (which includes the warm peaks in between the cold valleys) is due to the precession of the Earth's axis. There have been other climate and atmospheric events that were due to changes in the biosphere; e.g. the oxygenation of the atmosphere was caused by the evolution and massive spread of photosynthetic plants. The exponential jump in global surface temperatures since the industrial age is due to the massive dumping of once geologically sequestered greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere primarily via the global practice of burning fossil fuels.

I'll go with this.
And I'll raise you one by saying the root cause is overpopulation.....as everything else is a secondary or tertiary effect of overpopulation

Don't believe it, then check out where most eggs come from for just one example....Need a 2nd, then look at the disappearance of the Brazil rainforest due to "expansion"....70% of our oxygen comes from rainforests.....

So what's your game plan for the root cause?