The FAST Approaching Gun Ban

[Aticus100]

RedVex, I’m going to have to ask the question as I can’t quite believe you don’t know it was always impossible but here it is.

How do you propose the Americans could have wiped out ISIS in a week or two?

[broncofan]

Redvex, you're talking about indentured servants I hope. Many indentured servants from Europe did waive certain rights in order to earn passage to the United States. In a libertarian society, these contracts might be considered valid. There are very few civilized countries who would uphold any such contract today, even based on doctrines within contract law such as unconscionability.

African-American slaves did not waive their rights but had them taken by force from the first generation when they were taken captive. They did not own guns but they also did not have due process rights, the right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment, the right to vote, or any civil rights at all. Arguing that they should have had guns is so moot....how would they have had guns if they were taken to the United States in bondage and abused from the first instance they arrived? It's frankly the dumbest thought experiment I've ever heard of.

[broncofan]

I also want to point out that although indentured servitude is cruel it should definitely be distinguished from the African slave trade. Indentured servitude was typically for a term of 4 to 7 years and was not intergenerational....and there are probably too many other differences to count.

When people think of slavery in the United States they are thinking about what happened to people of African descent. There are many racists of European descent in the United States who try to conflate the two in order to trivialize slavery.

[Ts RedVeX]

I was referring to Romans who sold themselves to become slaves. Indentured servitude was a good thing as after it's expiration servants were free men and could work for themselves.

In a monarchy, there are laws and institutions to enforce them so I am not sure what you guys are talking about. There are also common basic values that are being taught to people from childhood. In democracy, those values are none-existent and there is nothing making people stick together. Current EU politics is totally anti European as dividing nations seems to be the Union's main target.

I can assure you that anyone who comes to a country where anyone can bear arms, with a gun they will think think twice before pointing their gun at any citizen of that country. The same rule applies to any citizen of that country. This will not be the case in any slave country, where slaves cannot bear arms.

[Stavros]

I can assure you that anyone who comes to a country where anyone can bear arms, with a gun they will think think twice before pointing their gun at any citizen of that country. .

Think, once, think twice -or don't think at all- then shoot. Is there something about gun crime in the USA you would like to tell us that we don't know?

[Ts RedVeX]

Most of it takes place where guns are not allowed. Compare for example Arizona and New York.

[Stavros]

Most of it takes place where guns are not allowed. Compare for example Arizona and New York.

Arizona gun control laws are among the least-restrictive in the United States. Arizona law states that any person 21 years or older, who is not a prohibited possessor, may carry a weapon openly or concealed without the need for a license. (A concealed carry permit is required in most other states.)
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/arizona...trol-laws.html

[Aticus100]

I can assure you that anyone who comes to a country where anyone can bear arms, with a gun they will think think twice before pointing their gun at any citizen of that country. The same rule applies to any citizen of that country. This will not be the case in any slave country, where slaves cannot bear arms.

Clearly you can’t assure anyone of that though can you as your talking utter bollox.

If anyone on a country where the populace is heavily armed is more likely to think twice before drawing a gun then why is the gun death rate in the heavily armed US 138 times that of the rate in the barely armed U.K.?

You have reached the point where you’re jut spouting shit now.

[broncofan]

You have reached the point where you’re jut spouting shit now.

Yeah not only does the evidence you cited contradict it but it's not even internally logical. You ever notice how a lot of these people commit suicide at the end of a rampage? Or suicide by cop? Or when they're captured brag about what they did and their fearlessness of the consequences? They would not be deterred as they're killing themselves at the end and they often accept it which is why some of them are writing crazy ass manifestos.

Even assuming everyone had a gun, how long would it take to pull a gun if you are not expecting a shooter? Or is that going to be our new lifestyle where we expect shootings everywhere and are ready to draw in theaters, restaurants, and elementary schools? What about the crossfire in a crowded movie theater with fifty armed people trying to shoot at a gunman in the dark? What about the Las Vegas shooting where nobody knew where the gunman was? That would have been fantastic to have thousands of people shooting weapons in a confined space when the gunman was camped out in a hotel.

Years ago someone posted a link of a woman who shot her gun at the fleeing car of a shoplifter. This is where we're at with this stupidity. When the woman was brought into court, she said she'd never try to be a good samaritan again (*facepalm). I don't know how someone could logically think there would be an end to this epidemic if everyone were trained in using guns and carried at all times....what kind of lifestyle is that? Isn't that the opposite of civilization?

[blackchubby38]

Texas church attack the latest US mass shooting
Associated Press The Associated Press,Associated Press 1 hour 46 minutes ago
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Law enforcement officials work the scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. (Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman via AP)
A man opened fire on a church in South Texas on Sunday, killing several people and wounding others.

Authorities haven't released the name of the attacker or said how many people he killed in the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, but a Wilson County commissioner, Albert Gamez, told cable news outlets he was told it was more than 20 killed and more than 20 wounded, though those figures hadn't been confirmed.

The county sheriff, Joe Tackett, told the Wilson County News that the gunman had been "taken down."

Here's a look at some of the nation's deadliest mass shootings since 2012:

— Oct. 1, 2017: A gunman identified by authorities as Stephen Paddock opened fire on an outdoor music festival on the Las Vegas Strip from the 32nd floor of a hotel-casino, killing 58 people and wounding more than 500. SWAT teams with explosives then stormed his room and found he had killed himself.

— June 12, 2016: Gunman Omar Mateen opened fire at an Orlando, Florida, nightclub, killing 49 people. Mateen was later killed in a shootout with police.

— Feb. 25, 2016: Cedric Ford, 38, killed three people and wounded 14 others at a lawnmower factory where he worked in the central Kansas community of Hesston. The local police chief killed him during a shootout with 200 to 300 workers still in the building, authorities said.

— Feb. 20, 2016: Jason Dalton, 45, is accused of randomly shooting and killing six people and severely wounding two others during a series of attacks over several hours in the Kalamazoo, Michigan, area. Authorities say he paused between shootings to make money as an Uber driver. He faces murder and attempted-murder charges.

— Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27, opened fire at a social services center in San Bernardino, California, killing 14 people and wounding more than 20. They fled the scene but died hours later in a shootout with police.

— Oct. 1, 2015: A shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, left 10 people dead and seven wounded. Shooter Christopher Harper-Mercer, 26, exchanged gunfire with police, then killed himself.

— June 17, 2015: Dylann Roof, 21, shot and killed nine African-American church members during a Bible study group inside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Police contend the attack was racially motivated. Roof has been sentenced to death in the shootings.

— May 23, 2014: A community college student, Elliot Rodger, 22, killed six people and wounded 13 in shooting and stabbing attacks in the area near the University of California, Santa Barbara, campus. Authorities said he apparently shot himself to death after a gun battle with deputies.

— Sept. 16, 2013: Aaron Alexis, a mentally disturbed civilian contractor, shot 12 people to death at the Washington Navy Yard before he was killed in a police shootout.

— July 26, 2013: Pedro Vargas, 42, went on a shooting rampage at his Hialeah, Florida, apartment building, gunning down six people before officers fatally shot him.

— Dec. 14, 2012: In Newtown, Connecticut, an armed 20-year-old man entered Sandy Hook Elementary School and used a semi-automatic rifle to kill 26 people, including 20 first-graders and six adult school staff members. He then killed himself.

— Sept. 27, 2012: In Minnesota's deadliest workplace rampage, Andrew Engeldinger, who had just been fired, pulled a gun and fatally shot six people, including the company's founder. He also wounded two others at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis before taking his own life.

— Aug. 5, 2012: In Oak Creek, Wisconsin, 40-year-old gunman Wade Michael Page killed six worshippers at a Sikh Temple before killing himself.

—July 20, 2012: James Holmes, 27, fatally shot 12 people and injured 70 in an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater. He was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

— April 2, 2012: Seven people were killed and three were wounded when a 43-year-old former student opened fire at Oikos University in Oakland, California. One Goh was charged with seven counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder, but psychiatric evaluations concluded he suffered from long-term paranoid schizophrenia and was unfit to stand trial.

Lets not forget the one that happened in Tuscon, Arizona on January 8, 2011 when Jared Lee Loughner shot and killed 6 people, wounding a total of 13 people.