For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

[Aticus100]

so you want the right to re-vote on Brexit subject to final exit agreement? Why in god's name would EU sit down to negotiate in good faith under those terms?
Sorry, you can't buy a pair of new shoes, wear'em for a year and then return them for a refund because you decide they hurt your feet.

Your analogy about buying a pair of shoes is perfect.

You are suggesting that someone told you there were some nice shoes somewhere and you agreed to buy them. Based entirely on what someone said they were like.

Do you think that maybe in real life you might go to the shop, ask how much they were going to cost and have a look at them before handing over your money?

Or are you suggesting you happily hand over a blank cheque for a shoe box without opening and leave the shop?

We haven't left yet. I'd like to know what the deal is before we do. Wouldn't you?

[peejaye]

We're leaving. Anyone out there living in the UK who doesn't accept democracy, please fuck off and go and live somewhere else!

[peejaye]

Oh; & pleaseeeeee, take that "full weight CUNT" Tony Blair with you!

[Stavros]

We're leaving. Anyone out there living in the UK who doesn't accept democracy, please fuck off and go and live somewhere else!

The situation now is that the debate turns on what Brexit will mean and the terms that the UK agrees with the EU, if it does. It seems to me, as I have said before, that there is a division now between those who want a 'soft Brexit' which would be a transitional arrangement spread out over X years; and those who want a 'hard Brexit' which means severing formal relations with the EU on a date in March 2019.

Those who are opposed to the transitional arrangement believe that it would in effect retain the UK's membership of the EU and thus be Brexit in name only. One assumes that if, for the sake of the argument, the UK and the EU agree to a phased withdrawal whereby different sectors withdraw at different dates, for all of that period the UK would be obliged to pay its fees to the EU and be obliged to adhere to judgements of the European Court of Justice. The UK would thus not be significantly 'better off' financially, and Parliament would (as Brexiteers allege) not 'take back control' of our laws. Critically, the Hard Brexiteers are concerned that a transitional arrangement might cover only some aspects of the UK-EU relationship and that if others are left for future debate, the negotiations could drag on for years during which the UK would not be fully independent from the EU and I assume -unless a special agreement is reached on it- would not be free to negotiate and sign trade deals with countries outside the EU.

Theresa May's problem is that she began with one position in January:
“We will not have truly left the European Union if we are not in control of our own laws,” the prime minister said in the Lancaster House speech that set out her Brexit strategy in January.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-independence

But by August the government's briefing paper on law recognized that litigants in the UK would still be bound by legal judgements made in the EU, which would include judgements made by the ECJ as well as the courts in France, Germany, Italy and the rest. At the moment, the UK as part of the EU is integrated into EU law through the ECJ, which does not prevent each member state from passing any law it wants to, but does gives the citizens of those member states the right to appeal to the ECJ for a conclusive judgement on the case.

Historically, European states have tended to co-operate on legal matters, some would argue the ECJ even though an EU institution in effect consolidated an existing agreement in law among European states because it helps to resolves disputes be they related to commercial or family law.

If this sounds arcane, in practice it may simply mean that when the UK leaves the EU, the legal system will simply replicate the existing system to process litigation on commercial and family law, with the almost certain outcome that in cases brought by an EU citizen against a UK citizen that is decided in the ECJ, the UK citizen will have to abide by that judgement. And, in turn, an EU citizen bringing a case against a UK citizen would have to abide by the final court of appeal in the UK, namely the Supreme Court. The real point of difference would be if the UK government decided to change the law, particularly if it affected family law where one parent is a UK citizen and the other a citizen of the EU. Conceivably, the litigants could seek a judgement from the European Court of Human Rights, but the Tory government wants the UK to repeal the Human Rights Act and leave the jurisdiction of the ECHR.
Freedom has its price, and justice may be devalued as a result of the UK leaving the EU.

On other matters: how will the UK and the EU negotiation existing arrangements on Security, Policing and Intelligence? On academic co-operation, on nuclear affairs? Could we be in the position where the UK leaves an existing arrangement with 27 states only to then re-negotiate the same relationship but as an independent state? Would the 27 simply agree to the same terms as before or seek changes to acknowledge the UK's independence? And what would be the point of leaving the EU if we are then going to re-negotiate almost every pre-existing arrangement because it is to our benefit to do so?

The argument for leaving becomes more absurd the more you look at the details, but we are stuck with it and must spend a staggering amount of money just to make the absurd happen. The mere fact that even hard Brexiteers want to carry on trading with the EU underlines how poorly thought through their position is, at least UKIP were economic nationalists and have never cared one way or the other about the EU, but as UKIP declines into a neo-fascist irrelevance, all we are left with are hypocrites who are unfit to run a bath, never mind this country.

[peejaye]

You know; I watch the news on BBC, ITV or CH.4 daily & I haven't got a clue what's going on despite all these channels allowing Br-exit to headline & dominate each bulletin!
Maybe you should go there Stavros? You seem to have a rough idea of what is happening?

[peejaye]

Maybe you bre-moaners should read this, this gentlemen was very highly thought of at one time;

https://www.theguardian.com/business...t-about-brexit

[Jericho]

We're leaving. Anyone out there living in the UK who doesn't accept democracy, please fuck off and go and live somewhere else!

Sorry Peejaye, but democracy's got fuck all to do with it.
The electorate were lied to, plain and simple.

As for leaving, i wish I fucking could.
I've never been more ashamed of this country and it's morally bankrupt government.

[Stavros]

You know; I watch the news on BBC, ITV or CH.4 daily & I haven't got a clue what's going on despite all these channels allowing Br-exit to headline & dominate each bulletin!
Maybe you should go there Stavros? You seem to have a rough idea of what is happening?

Advance notices of the speech Theresa May gives in Florence tomorrow suggests the UK is willing to agree a two-year transition period, which would push back the date of a full exit to 2021. What we don't know is how far the EU is willing to go to accommodate the UK. Article 50 has never been invoked before, and both sides want to maximise their advantage and minimise the disadvantages. If there is to be a transition period, then however realistic it may sound, the hard Brexiteers may make an issue of it, so a lot may turn on what happens at the Conservative Party conference in Manchester in the first four days of October. This time next month we might have a new Prime Minister. Between Florence and Manchester, Labour steps into the spotlight to give us a clearer idea of what it wants, if that is not asking too much. Does Keir Starmer want the same as Jeremy Corbyn?

[Aticus100]

We're leaving. Anyone out there living in the UK who doesn't accept democracy, please fuck off and go and live somewhere else!

God but I do despise fucking keyboard warriors.

[peejaye]

Sorry Peejaye, but democracy's got fuck all to do with it.
The electorate were lied to, plain and simple.

As for leaving, i wish I fucking could.
I've never been more ashamed of this country and it's morally bankrupt government.

I attempted to leave this country in 2003 because of my shame of this place.
Good luck Jericho but it's bloody difficult. I lasted 3 years before coming back.
The Establishment blame everything and everyone bar themselves for what's happened re. Br-exit.