UK Election June 08

[holzz]

On a tranny forum a hung parliament might seem like a desirable state of affairs, but I'm doubting any of you lot are in the mood for humor right now.

I am. My party "won", but we got the non-victory we deserved, due to our shitty campaign. Though I want a soft-Brexit, as i was a remainer. As for hung parliament, a little sex can lighten any mood.

[Jericho]

Fuck My Life!

Seriously?
After everything that trout said about Corbyn, *she's* getting into bed with the DUP?

[Stavros]

On a tranny forum a hung parliament might seem like a desirable state of affairs, but I'm doubting any of you lot are in the mood for humor right now.

She may not be an angel, Flabbybody, but I think we can all agree she is hung...!

[peejaye]

i voted tory, but then the campaign was badly run.

The care policy fucked up, and if this new DUP/Tory coalition doesn't work, then May really should resign and get in Boris Johnson.

Then again, maybe Corbyn could win next time. He's not as damaged goods as he was six months ago.

That's all we need, our own version of Donald Trump! Do us all a favour!

[Stavros]

Some reflections:

1) The polls dismissed the 'youth vote' but it was crucial in some constituencies, like mine, like Sheffield, and like Canterbury which has been Tory since 1918 and is now Labour, but not just because of university students who want to be relieved of debt. Young people between 18-28 who are not students but working, and who are or want to get married cannot afford to buy an apartment let alone a house, they are often in low to medium incomes which do not give them enough to save, and many -the majority?- who grew up as citizens of the EU believe they were robbed of their future when so many older people voted to take the UK out of the EU. They were also fascinated and energized by the Corbyn campaign, and turned off by the dreary monotony of the Tories.

2) So the polls ignored both a key voting bloc, but also the social media they use was not factored in to predictions, so credit to ITV last night as they had a 'Media Hub' which reported on the responses from social media through the night and often from abroad. Crucially, given the hysterical abuse that was levelled at Corbyn by the Daily Mail and the Murdoch press like The Sun- does this mean their power has been eclipsed? Compare them to the problems Murdoch is having at Fox News in the US. And, was this aspect of elections an innovation that elected Barack Obama in 2008 but which few other politicians outside the US have taken notice of?

3) We had comfortable Tory-Labour governments from 1979 to 2010, so the financial crash of 2008 must be seen as a watershed moment that shattered the stability of the two party system -the Tories were unable to govern alone in 2010, and only scraped through with a majority of 12 in 2015 and are now the largest party but with no overall majority; yet small parties do feature as either coalition partners or voting supporters, and in the case of the DUP May would need every Tory MP and every DUP MP to vote to get her legislation through. I suspect we will have another election by October. Pundits are saying we have returned to the Tory-Labour two party system, but formal or loose coalitions have been essential to government since 2010.

4) It has been said Labour cannot be elected with a left-wing programme and it failed last night, but the 2017 Manifesto was not as left-wing as the 1945 manifesto and the intriguing question to which there is no answer is, with the same degree of positive enthusiasm would a different leader have won Labour a majority?

5) What is going on in the Tory party? Twice in two years their leader has gambled the house on a vote convinced the result would leave them secure, and twice they have been humiliated. It is not just the hubris of winning elections, perhaps it is the reliance on focus groups and think tanks rather than real people that has detached such politicians from the real world in which they might find the views they think everyone shares with them does not exist, if they ever bothered to actually walk around town and talk to the people.

6) For all the desire for certainty and stability the Conservatives have always been vulnerable to destructive splits which are caused by arguments about the role of the State and of Free Markets. The party tore itself apart over the Corn Laws in the 1840s, it tore itself apart over Tariff Reform between 1903-1906, and it is has been shredding itself over the EU since 1972 and the negotiations over Brexit could be the cause of a major convulsion in the party, particularly because the hard Brexiteers see their cherished dream of smashing the EU and living in a Free Market world being undermined by their own leader. History repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. The third time, it may just be nasty, brutish and short (thanks to Hegel, Marx and Hobbes for those quotes).

[peejaye]

May won't last 5 years, it's an impossibility! If there's another General Election this year, Corbyn will get a landslide especially if the opponent is Boris Johnson. A lot of people didn't vote Corbyn because the Media said he couldn't win. If it wasn't for some of our friends "North of the border", Corbyn may of got in. This is an amazing result for the Labour Party & will silence many of their critics, of which they were many!
At long last; We now have a choice again between two different Parties, the far right, renamed "Centre right" by Murdoch & co. & the Left.
With Br-exit talks opening very soon I wouldn't want to be Mr's May, woman's a glutton for punishment of which I have no sympathy.

[Stavros]

Peejaye is the irony not in the fact that even with their increased share of the vote, neither Labour nor the Tories could produce a majority out of it? I am not arguing for PR because we rejected that a few years ago and it would make the situation worse not better, but for all their support, we are left with the fact that we are more divided as a country than we have been for years, and it shows in the results of the election. Thatcher and Blair received huge endorsements from the public, will we ever see that level of support again?

[peejaye]

I know we see things differently Stavros but people are fed up with "The Establishment", the media can blame who they like, young people, old people, I'm not bothered. May had a shocking campaign, full of arrogance and contempt for ordinary people. We've had enough of it! As Nigel Farage said "Corbyn sounded Human" & people like that. You couldn't find two individuals further apart than May & Corbyn.
Only hope for the Torys is David Davies taking over but I won't be putting my money on any of them.
Don't blame the people, blame "The Establishment".

[Jericho]

4) It has been said Labour cannot be elected with a left-wing programme and it failed last night, but the 2017 Manifesto was not as left-wing as the 1945 manifesto and the intriguing question to which there is no answer is, with the same degree of positive enthusiasm would a different leader have won Labour a majority?

Actually, I think there is an answer to that question. It's a categoric no. A different leader would not have won Labour a better result than the one they have. Don't ask me what *it* is, but Corbyn has *It*, X, whatever you want to call it. As mad as it seems, people like him!

[broncofan]

Actually, I think there is an answer to that question. It's a categoric no. A different leader would not have won Labour a better result than the one they have. Don't ask me what *it* is, but Corbyn has *It*, X, whatever you want to call it. As mad as it seems, people like him!

I understand it was an enormous shortfall from expectations for May, but if everyone concedes May ran a terrible campaign, and Corbyn cannot muster a majority, does that mean the votes are not there? The logic would seem that there is no path to victory for Labour if the best candidate could not win against someone who did not campaign.