We're Not Gay And We're Not Straight

[trish]

Thanks for the well considered comments. Just a couple of points in reply.

... I disagree with your argument that if male is attracted to a transsexual woman then therefore a heterosexual.

This isn't quite what I said. I do agree that non-heterosexuals may be sexually attracted to a transsexual woman.

IMO a man whose sexual interests are focused exclusively on transsexual women is harboring a fetish. On this we probably will have to agree to disagree.

[Prospero]

So wholly eloquently put. I would love to meet trish.

I wasn't getting enough thumbs down votes, so I thought I'd post something on this thread.....

Imagine a man and a woman find that they are attracted to each other. In the course of the developing relationship the woman reveals (as timely as possible, but it is always a difficult moment to face) that she is currently a pre-op transexual). Surprised at first, perhaps feeling betrayed, the man shortly decides that in spite of her physiology, he can accept her for the women she is. The relationship continues. Perhaps they even (after many discussions and adventures together) they decide to get married. Is this man a heterosexual? Of course. Is she? Of course. At least there’s is nothing revealed in the story that would lead one to say otherwise.

Now imagine the same story, except the woman being trans is a deal-braker. Are they both still heterosexuals? Yes, of course. But it’s a sad story. Perhaps he wants to have children by the women he eventually marries. Perhaps he just can’t bear the fact that she’s transgender. That can happen even if she is post-op. Sad. But understandable.

Now imagine the same story, but this time all along the man thought he clocked the woman of his attractions right away as a transsexual. But he’s wrong. When he discovers she’s not, it’s a deal-braker. First of all, this story is just as sad as prior story; and certainly less understandable. Second, let’s once again ask the question, “Is he a heterosexual?” Ans: Maybe, maybe not. If he is, he is a heterosexual with a fetish.

Now there’s nothing wrong with fetishes. They are the spice of life. It is quite all right to occassionally act out fantasies and even objectify your lover, or some aspect of him or her. One key word here is “occassionally.” Some of us girls make or have made a substantive living of having healthy fun with male libidos. I know a lot of heterosexual men who enjoy spending an evening fondling a tgirl’s cock. It’s a fetish that some men enjoy and others find repulsive, like drinking a woman’s piss or licking the soles of her shoes.

But (imo) if you let your fetish take a permanent hold on your psyche, so that its presence or absence becomes a deal-braker obstructing the formation of natural healthy relationships, then needless to say, that kind of fetish is not so healthy. I’m wary of anyone who tells me they date transgender women exclusively and that it’s prejudicial to criticize them because being attracted exclusively to transgender women is like being gay and attracted exclusively to men. I disagree. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. Attraction exclusively to transgender women is not.

One contrary argument is that gender is a continuum. Not every man is either straight or gay. There are shades of in between and exclusive attraction to transgender women is somewhere in the in between.

There are a lot of things to criticize in this argument. 1) Sexual orientation is not gender identification. 2) Being a transgender person doesn’t entail that you’re somewhere in between male and female on the gender continuum. 3) Exclusive attraction to transsexual women is not a sexual orientation nor a gender identity; if male is attracted to a transsexual woman (for the right reasons), then he is attracted to a woman and is therefore a heteosexual, not something between hetero and homo. I can already hear someone object to the parenthetical proviso “for the right reasons.” That is addressed by 4) transgender is not a sexual orientation. Transgender is something a person sometimes becomes to reconcile a tragic mismatch between their physiologic gender and their percieved gender. It is not a sexual orientation. Now to address the topic of right reasons. The “right reasons” are the reasons that prevail as right in any sort of healthy relationship. Gay men seek gay men. Heterosexual men seek heterosexual women and vice-versa. Not being the appropriate sexual orientation can be a legitimate deal-braker (an appropriate and right reason for ending the romantic part of the relationship). But transgender is not a sexual orientation. So being or not being transgender is not by itself a legitimate deal-braker. Anyone for whom being transgender or not is a deal-braker, is sadly a person in the unhealthy grip of a powerful fetish.

[Misterman1993]

I'm straight and I've confirmed this. I like cis and trans women. Let's face if we we're gay, then transwomen wouldn't appeal to us at all. Hell even some really femme FTMs look good to me too. Only you can know who you are and what you're into. Just take life one day at a time and don't stress yourself out.

[theANCEIENTWAY]

Hello, I'm new here and wish to at least attempt to answer the question about why straight guys struggle. Please allow this to be my introductory post.

it's because of social and cultural expectations that we struggle with this. You see, all of America society has social and cultural expectations. That is to say, most people think that because "i'm" this way then everybody has to be the same. In short, what Americans value most is conformity and expect everyone to conform to how they think people should be.

thus, they lock us into our gender identity and social roles.

And if it's broken, then it causes a lot of confusion.

i am struggling with this myself. I have always been taught that anything other than heterosexual man and women is wrong, and it is hard to break a lifetime of conditioning.

But, perhaps there could be a new term. because being aroused by transsexualism is not one thing, it is a combination of both masculinity and femininity.

Some do look very good, and being attracted to them is a confusing thing.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinion.

[nysprod]

I so wish this thread would go away...is there any way to get rid of it?

[Lester316]

There are no end of people who come here and post threads trying to label how others identify themselves owing to what they find attractive - or start arguments either way.

I for one would like all such things declared as a redundant topic, which clearly only appeals to trolling and think such posts should fall under the same rules as posting links to tube sites; instant deletion and repeated infractions get a ban.

[giovanni_hotel]

If HA is to exist as a site, there's always going to be new members logging on trying to understand their attraction to TS.

Yeah the topics are redundant but if they help one person come to terms with being NORMAL, I don't see the problem.

[Lester316]

If HA is to exist as a site, there's always going to be new members logging on trying to understand their attraction to TS.

Yeah the topics are redundant but if they help one person come to terms with being NORMAL, I don't see the problem.

I agree and should calrify my comments. I'm talking generally about threads that set out to provoke angry debates/responses - not about a particular thread having not read all of this one for example.

Threads which ask for help or advice, or are just trying to understand who they want to be should be encouraged. Just hopefully the trolls can be identified along the way.

[fred41]

I wasn't getting enough thumbs down votes, so I thought I'd post something on this thread.

Imagine a man and a woman find that they are attracted to each other. In the course of the developing relationship the woman reveals (as timely as possible, but it is always a difficult moment to face) that she is currently a pre-op transexual). Surprised at first, perhaps feeling betrayed, the man shortly decides that in spite of her physiology, he can accept her for the women she is. The relationship continues. Perhaps they even (after many discussions and adventures together) they decide to get married. Is this man a heterosexual? Of course. Is she? Of course. At least there’s is nothing revealed in the story that would lead one to say otherwise.

Now imagine the same story, except the woman being trans is a deal-braker. Are they both still heterosexuals? Yes, of course. But it’s a sad story. Perhaps he wants to have children by the women he eventually marries. Perhaps he just can’t bear the fact that she’s transgender. That can happen even if she is post-op. Sad. But understandable.

Now imagine the same story, but this time all along the man thought he clocked the woman of his attractions right away as a transsexual. But he’s wrong. When he discovers she’s not, it’s a deal-braker. First of all, this story is just as sad as prior story; and certainly less understandable. Second, let’s once again ask the question, “Is he a heterosexual?” Ans: Maybe, maybe not. If he is, he is a heterosexual with a fetish.

Now there’s nothing wrong with fetishes. They are the spice of life. It is quite all right to occassionally act out fantasies and even objectify your lover, or some aspect of him or her. One key word here is “occassionally.” Some of us girls make or have made a substantive living of having healthy fun with male libidos. I know a lot of heterosexual men who enjoy spending an evening fondling a tgirl’s cock. It’s a fetish that some men enjoy and others find repulsive, like drinking a woman’s piss or licking the soles of her shoes.

But (imo) if you let your fetish take a permanent hold on your psyche, so that its presence or absence becomes a deal-braker obstructing the formation of natural healthy relationships, then needless to say, that kind of fetish is not so healthy. I’m wary of anyone who tells me they date transgender women exclusively and that it’s prejudicial to criticize them because being attracted exclusively to transgender women is like being gay and attracted exclusively to men. I disagree. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. Attraction exclusively to transgender women is not.

One contrary argument is that gender is a continuum. Not every man is either straight or gay. There are shades of in between and exclusive attraction to transgender women is somewhere in the in between.

There are a lot of things to criticize in this argument. 1) Sexual orientation is not gender identification. 2) Being a transgender person doesn’t entail that you’re somewhere in between male and female on the gender continuum. 3) Exclusive attraction to transsexual women is not a sexual orientation nor a gender identity; if male is attracted to a transsexual woman (for the right reasons), then he is attracted to a woman and is therefore a heteosexual, not something between hetero and homo. I can already hear someone object to the parenthetical proviso “for the right reasons.” That is addressed by 4) transgender is not a sexual orientation. Transgender is something a person sometimes becomes to reconcile a tragic mismatch between their physiologic gender and their percieved gender. It is not a sexual orientation. Now to address the topic of right reasons. The “right reasons” are the reasons that prevail as right in any sort of healthy relationship. Gay men seek gay men. Heterosexual men seek heterosexual women and vice-versa. Not being the appropriate sexual orientation can be a legitimate deal-braker (an appropriate and right reason for ending the romantic part of the relationship). But transgender is not a sexual orientation. So being or not being transgender is not by itself a legitimate deal-braker. Anyone for whom being transgender or not is a deal-braker, is sadly a person in the unhealthy grip of a powerful fetish.

I think this covers it very well at every angle...

[LI SEAN08]

Nothing wrong with this thread. It interested me, cauxse I use to always wonder what the hell am I doing with a TG Gurl or even today withg CD gurls when I have a nice loo0king GF for many years!! But hey, if it feels good, I just do it!!! No hangups here!!!!