Everyone here help bree!

[dreamon]

....all I can say is this: we spent a coupla weeks a few years back traveling thru Germany and Austria...Frankfurt, Nuremberg, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna....I'm certain a great many of those folks had a heritage of fine upstanding friends and family members who lost their lives in the conflict back in the 1940s, yet nowhere did we ever see a Nazi flag flying in front of any gov't buildings or even so much as a swastika bumper sticker anywhere. Why not? Because the thing is a symbol of evil, no matter how much of a good ole boy your grandfather was.

And as we all know, the Nazi ideology has completely died out in Germany as a result.

[lifeisfiction]

The people of Germany don't want the Nazi flag. Getting rid of the flag was not the solution. The attitudes and views towards symbols of Nazism were rejected by the people. It would not have matter if the whole world hated it, if they as a society did not find fault with it they would have still held on to it internally and in secret. They would have see it as them versus the world. You can find countries where this happens. Where the people feel they are being attacked by the world and it only engrains them in their belief whether the belief is good or bad.

If you get rid of the flag, individuals outside those areas will be happy and pleased. The people that value the confederate flag and live in those areas will not have change. It can lead building an alternative community where they see their values more important and deepen their beliefs. This can lead to radicalism. That's where we don't' want to go. Has extreme examples happen. Of course the most obvious is the Civil War. There are ton more examples around the world. Could something like a civil war happen in our society, a huge probably not, but you could have people act out in the manner that we have seen in our society today. .

Again, getting rid of flag will do nothing if attitudes towards do not change. It only looks like someone who never stepped a foot where they are telling them how to live and that in of itself will only further conflict. I could tell you things that I experience that shocked the daylights out of me leaving a poor impression and it was not the flag that was the problem. To understand is to help facilitate change, because you are able to get to the root of the problem, not a surface solution.

[Ben in LA]

"But it's not about race...it's about Southern heritage."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...flag/29510543/

[buttslinger]

In buttslinger's diseased mind, I gravitate toward where all the CONTAST is, if a painting is all black or all white, it's boring and un-noteworthy, and when I say "The blacks are the only crayon that didn't melt in the great American melting pot" to me, case closed, no matter how much you stir the pot, nothing will change. By not melting, blacks are condemned to forever being segregated as different, and I honestly can't say if the blacks refused to melt, or the white man refused to let them melt.

President Obama's time in office has been a lot better for the Wall St trader than the average black man, financially, but if I know my Obama, behind the scenes the moves are being made and the bricks are being laid for the real war: the middle class slave and the one percenter masser. The FAT CATS have been putting their money into the market rather than hiring, it's like there's a staring contest between Obama and the Koch bros to see who's going to blink first.

Just like there are A students and F students, and CEO jobs, and janitor jobs, there will always be a contrast in the "all men are created equal" USA. Winners and Losers. Sending Bree a check for ten bucks might make somebody feel good, but to me it's just like buying a confederate flag at K-mart makes some people feel good, so what.
The real War is going to be the fight for the middle class. They do all the work, they should write all the checks.

Racism will die out as I die out, and Natina dies out, and The Greatest Generation dies out. Kids today laugh at us.

The thought of marrying a humanoid with a woman's face, woman's breasts, and a huge schlonger would have been unthinkable eight years ago, but now it's A-OK. But not to my Mom.

To me, cops treating blacks unfairly in the ghetto is not the problem, the ghetto is the problem. If Bree can figure out how to eliminate the ghetto, I'll send her ten bucks. I agree this problem is much deeper than the confederate flag and it's woven into lots of other problems. I also agree this is a racist country. I am a huge Washington Redskins fan, also.

[dreamon]

"But it's not about race...it's about Southern heritage."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...flag/29510543/

[natina]

Tim Wise - 400 YEARS HEAD START AND ADVANTAGES




Affirmative Action Debate: Tim Wise 3/14- Intelligence Squared U.S.




The motion: "It's time to end affirmative action"

Moderator: Robert Siegel
Speaking for the motion: John H. McWhorter, Terence J. Pell and Joseph C. Phillips
Speaking against the motion: Khin Mai Aung, Kimberlé Crenshaw and Tim Wise

IQ2US marks the launch of Oxford-style debating -- one motion, one moderator, three advocates for the motion, three against -- in New York City. Each evening begins at 6:00P with a complimentary cocktail period. As you enter the theater before the debate starts at 6:45P, you cast your vote for or against the evening's motion. Those results are displayed midway through the debate as each side makes its statements. After all six panelists speak, the audience has a chance to ask the speakers questions and vote again. The debate finishes with brief summations from the panelists, the votes are tallied and a winning side is declared


Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/m...ical-narrative

TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/m...whiteness-clip

The Underprivileged White Male

WHITES CAME here FOR REligous freedom

TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/m...whiteness-clip

[Goodslave]

She was rightfully arrested.

Agree totally.

[EZWind]

Well, I was gonna just let this thread die out, but since the South Carolina state legislature has just confirmed that maybe I'm not so far off base about this (altho some of them had to be shamed into it and dragged kicking and screaming to the side of reason) I thought I'd jump in one more time. Believe it or not, I actually learned something today by watching video of our illustrious 114th Congress in our nation's capital. The Confederacy had 3 flags....this particular flag that's causing all the angst was not one of them. That flag was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia under Rob't E Lee. When he surrendered at Appomattox, he asked that the flag be furled, told his troops to roll it up and put it away in their attics. Said he considered it to be a symbol of treason. When he died he refused to be buried in his Confederate uniform and his family refused to let anyone wearing that uniform to attend the funeral. This is General Lee we're talking about...one of the Major forces in the whole "heritage" thing that so many seem to be afraid of losing.
This stars and bars thing only came to be displayed in the early 1960's, coincidentally, just around the time a bunch of uppity "coloreds" decided they ought to be able to go into a diner and sit down at the counter and order some lunch.
I'm not saying the flag is the whole problem and everything will be peachy keen when it's gone. And I'm not saying that all the comments that there are deeper societal ills at the root of this besides the flag are wrong.
All I'm saying is we're better off without it. And, evidently, much to my surprise, South Carolina appears to concur.
And of course, now Boner and his bunch of Republi-clowns in the House have to get in on the act at the Federal level. It just boggles the mind

[Ben in LA]

Whatever. The confederacy used the flag(s) as well as the Klan. And yes, the American flag was - and still is - used by them as well.

[EZWind]

And as we all know, the Nazi ideology has completely died out in Germany as a result.

...I'm sure it's a safe bet that it hasn't died out completely... I never said it had. And I never said that because you don't see the flags anywhere that means the sentiment no longer exists. All I'm saying is, you don't make the world a better place by allowing symbols of hate and evil to be prominently displayed in public.
I'd be curious to see the figures on how many of Jewish descent have been murdered in Germany compared to how many of African descent have been murdered in the US