TRUVADA: Why are we ALL not taking this???!!!!

[Prospero]

That last remark by westheangelino is irresponsible bollocks. Undetectable does NOT mean not infectious. Ask a doctor. It might make the risk lower but definitly does not mean they are not a risk.

As for HIV being manageable. yes. True. But they also say that in later life the chances of dying earlier from other infections is heightened. Plus HIV also has the ability to mutate. So drug treatments presently effective at controlling it may well not continue to work. Plus who wants to have to religiously take a tough regime of drugs - some of which have side effects - for the rest of their life for the pleasure of a few minutes of bareback sex.

Play safe. Use condoms and Truvada. Do NOT forsake the great degree of safety that the use of condoms provides.

[Sexyjoe84]

Hi,

I'm taking truvada and kaletra after a possible exposure during oral...
The side effects aren't nice.. Not even sure I should be taking them to be fair but still, better safe than sorry...

Great thread though with good discussions.

[trish]

Trish, you can make any graph you want, but it doesn't illustrate anything.

Yes, if I just drew any old graph I felt like drawing. But the chart I posted is constructed from the simple, well known algorithm for computing the expected number of failures in N independent runs of a random procedure with known probability of success. I explained the procedure here
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...&postcount=290
and here
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...&postcount=301

The chart illustrates over time the expected number of HIV transmissions for a group of one hundred people using truvada alone and compares that to the expected number of transmissions for a group of one hundred people using condoms along with truvada. Even if the effectiveness estimates are in error the chart demonstrates how well the supplementary use of condoms can reduce the risk of HIV transmission. The model assumes the group behaviors are such that 99% is the appropriate measure of truvada's effectiveness over a one year period and that 90% is the appropriate measure of the effectiveness of condom use over a one year period.

Each curve on the chart is labeled with the mathematical form of the model used to construct the curve so that anyone can independently derive the model and verify that the equation is correct.

Wes, after making the claim that the chart illustrates nothing, I expected you explain why that's the case. Instead you immediately follow your claim with...

Even you have to admit these two things: the CDC numbers take into account whether or not someone is using the drug as directed or not and in published studies about serodiscordant couples, not ONE negative partner became positive when taking Truvada as directed.

Wes, I'm not using the CDC numbers. I'm using YOUR numbers. The number you pulled out of your ass was 99%.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...&postcount=262
Would you like now to revise that estimate? To what value and why?

You have yet to state clearly, or in any other fashion, why truvada use over time cannot be modeled as a run of independent random experiments. Perhaps don't properly understand what YOU mean by "99% effective." Perhaps YOU could calculate for us the odds of HIV transmission over time using truvada alone and then using truvada with condoms. It is exactly the kind of information someone contemplating its long term use would want to have.

[Westheangelino]

That last remark by westheangelino is irresponsible bollocks. Undetectable does NOT mean not infectious. Ask a doctor. It might make the risk lower but definitly does not mean they are not a risk.

As for HIV being manageable. yes. True. But they also say that in later life the chances of dying earlier from other infections is heightened. Plus HIV also has the ability to mutate. So drug treatments presently effective at controlling it may well not continue to work. Plus who wants to have to religiously take a tough regime of drugs - some of which have side effects - for the rest of their life for the pleasure of a few minutes of bareback sex.

Play safe. Use condoms and Truvada. Do NOT forsake the great degree of safety that the use of condoms provides.

Complete bollocks? This two year study, which I'm sure you've never read, would say YOU are the one spouting nonsense.

http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-a.../page/2832748/

[Westheangelino]

Hi,

I'm taking truvada and kaletra after a possible exposure during oral...
The side effects aren't nice.. Not even sure I should be taking them to be fair but still, better safe than sorry...

Great thread though with good discussions.

1. HIV is not transmitted through oral sex. Why do you think you could have been infected?

2. You're taking PEP (post exposure) as opposed to PrEP (pre-exposure). Of course you're having some side effects. You're taking two drugs not one and in much higher dosages than what would be given as PrEP. Please educate yourself before you start warning of side effects regarding Truvada for PrEP. From all accounts I've heard of people actually on it for prevention, the side effects range from mild to nonexistent. I can't wait til I am on it myself to let you guys know how it's going.

[Tapatio]

1. HIV is not transmitted through oral sex.

Congratulations. You're spreading more misinformation.

This thread isn't just annoying and logic-impaired; it's also dangerous. You should be proud.

Low risk does not mean no risk.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/behavior/oralsex.html

[Westheangelino]

If I may retort:

http://www.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex-risk.../page/1432786/

[Prospero]

And according to British NHS information sites having such a low viral count that it is undetectable lowers but does not eliminate the risk of infection. So stop preaching dangerous misinformation. If anyone is infected because they follow your advice then you should be ashamed and - were it at all possible - be held criminally culpable.

[Westheangelino]

^ Would you say the same of anyone preaching a condom only approach that tells people not to take Truvada? What of campaigns that say Truvada isn't effective? I doubt you would give them the same scrutiny.

[lifeisfiction]

Congratulations. You're spreading more misinformation.

This thread isn't just annoying and logic-impaired; it's also dangerous. You should be proud.

Low risk does not mean no risk.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/behavior/oralsex.html

Actually, he is sort of right. There are doctors ( I do like to read medical stuff don't ask), who would sort of agree. Doctors will not say the possibility is zero, meaning since there is exchange of fluid, they can never rule it out as zero. Salvia inhibits in the transmission of the disease. One doctor in years of practice HIV, has not seen the transfer of HIV by oral sex. Those that claim to have acquired that method, when question have change their story about how they received the disease. For the disease to be transferred you need an open wound or sores. Even still you would need some other factors to cause transfer. I have given and receive oral sex and unless the person has sores or cut, then the possibility is pretty much null. The more diligent you are in having sex, the more safe you will be.

Many times people are not aware of the risks they take while engaging sex. I have been looking at Truvada and its history since West keeps going on and on about it more clearly. It has been given as prep for a few years. I find that some people on Truvada have an ambivalence to condom use as I suspected and would prefer the risk of engaging in unprotected sex. Those are the people who Truvada is really targeted. They can continue to have sex with lowering the chance of transmission. Now, by how much I am very curious. That's what I have been keeping my eye out for. I have read some interesting things about it, but then again HIV is not as easily transmitted as people tend to think.

Condoms are great for safe sex, but this product is aimed at people who would care less for condoms. Before we throw stones at this group, more people have engaged in bareback sex then they would like to admit whether in a relationship or in the heat of the moment. I've been offered bareback sex too many times from people I have known for one night, which always scares me. So I think we should be more understanding of their decisions. It still does not excuse their irresponsible behavior, but at least we can understand their decision.

I will certainly keep an eye on this topic. I'm very curious to how its going to progress. I believe there are going to be some major lawsuits against the pharmaceutical company in the future, this is my opinion.