Is Tgirl a better word - and should that become the norm?

[GroobySteven]

Would it be less objectionable to be PROFITED from? I assume from that you mean in the porn world, in which case it would eventually come to have much the same connotation as tranny, shemale or similar words i.e. basically a slur out of any porn context.

That question was aimed at Bella - who claimed that I supported the use of the word "tranny" which helped for homeless, suicides/deaths & beatings of transwomen (or some shit like that).
The overall point being, we've used "tgirl" for years and I believe one of the most responsible for promoting it not just on our properties but suggestive of it's use on other companies.

[Ben in LA]

Can't be bothered to read thru this load of old arse again.
No matter what you say, someone's going to be offended.
Be as offensive as possible...It's a good way of weeding out the nutjobs!

I don't think Coca Cola was trying to be offensive...but they did expose a lot of dickheads.

[iagodelgado]

That question was aimed at Bella - who claimed that I supported the use of the word "tranny" which helped for homeless, suicides/deaths & beatings of transwomen (or some shit like that).
The overall point being, we've used "tgirl" for years and I believe one of the most responsible for promoting it not just on our properties but suggestive of it's use on other companies.

My comment was written before I decided to read the whole thread.

I didn't get any direction to Bella in this thread. I have no idea what the history is between you two in general, and I guess your quote above comes from the Tranny v Nigger thread, which I did not read. None of these points is significant, so I'll move on.

I'm an interested outsider, not within the industry. I haven't picked up on tgirl being used in any significant way within the porn industry. I am NOT saying you haven't promoted this term. I'm just not getting it as significant from the outside, whereas tranny and shemale are very definitely tightly associated with porn, and disconnected from issues outside of porn.

I also do not get the association between tgirl and CD/TV, whether in the UK or otherwise, but as a couple of the UK ladies have been adamant it is, I would have to defer to their experience.

If the issue is actually about getting a deferential term, on this basis it looks like I'd have to stop using tgirl, stop using trans as people seem to see it as an umbrella term, and actually go to transsexual or TS. Wow, has AVN actually done something smart in this area, or should they change their terminology?

Since you've pointed out this is about carrying over an on-going argument, I guess not a lot I'm saying is relevant, so I'll drop out of the discussion.

Other than that, there's some posts on p9/p10 of this thread that seem to break the personal attack rules, for me to the extent of a warning or ban. It's kind of like how rough HA was before you took over.

[GroobySteven]

Other than that, there's some posts on p9/p10 of this thread that seem to break the personal attack rules, for me to the extent of a warning or ban. It's kind of like how rough HA was before you took over.

Agreed - action has been taken on all.

[runningdownthatdream]

Tgirl works for me and for the transsexual girls I know - simple, unambiguous, non-threatening. Tranny just has too many negative connotations to be generally acceptable, shemale likewise.

I'm with you on this. seems like a pretty common-sense thing too but obviously it isn't. From my observation, when the diminutive of a proper name is used for a 'racial, cultural, or gender group it - more often than not - is used to belittle, demean, and insult. I'm sure most of us know this - i.e.: Nigger for Negro, Chink for Chinese, Paki for Pakistani, Spic for Hispanic, and on and on.

I get what Steven and Krissy are saying (and Jamie too in the other thread) but I also sympathize with Bella's stance. They're all advocating for the community in their own way - just wish they can agree to disagree and leave at that.

As far as making a word 'the norm' I don't think anyone should be deciding or mandating 'the norm'. Education is the key and as bad as this thread has been (and the other one comparing tranny to nigger) it will hopefully serve to enlighten some of the cavemen reading.

PS - Did anyone notice the one poster who made the comment about Bella not being a woman and will never be a woman?

[GroobyKrissy]

I'm with you on this. seems like a pretty common-sense thing too but obviously it isn't. From my observation, when the diminutive of a proper name is used for a 'racial, cultural, or gender group it - more often than not - is used to belittle, demean, and insult. I'm sure most of us know this - i.e.: Nigger for Negro, Chink for Chinese, Paki for Pakistani, Spic for Hispanic, and on and on.

I get what Steven and Krissy are saying (and Jamie too in the other thread) but I also sympathize with Bella's stance. They're all advocating for the community in their own way - just wish they can agree to disagree and leave at that.

I disagree with you. We're not just "advocating" for the community in their own way... and to see it that way is to be blind to the truth of the matter.

In my "advocating", I do not divide or create divisions. I'm advocating for a meeting place... an area where all Transsexuals and those assuming ANY Transgender identities can meet in PEACE, work out their differences, and co-exist.

As you'll see from a series of articles I'm currently working on for Transformation Magazine, I am just as harsh on the silliness that goes on in the CD/TV community as I am the bigotry that goes on in the TS one, and I suppose I'll catch hell for that as well.

CD/TV's have got to stop being stupid and making the whole community a laughing stock. Transsexuals have got to put this "superiority complex" behind them and realize they are an incredible minority reaching across a 5' table for dinner with 3' arms. It is a simple matter to just say, "Please pass the potatoes"... so why isn't it being said more?

I am convinced of this: Transsexuals will NEVER, and I mean NEVER accomplish anything towards anything even resembling equality or acceptance without two things (in this order):

1. Unifying as a whole with the Transgender community
2. Mainstream backing

That is simple strategy. Someone has to step up and try to pull the edges together and fit the puzzle pieces in. I am trying to help accomplish that goal. The LGB crowd did exactly that, put aside their differences and unified... and have largely WON. To them, if you're gay... you're gay. They stand largely united with few petty differences. The "T" crowd has been left behind because it eats itself.

[GroobySteven]

PS - Did anyone notice the one poster who made the comment about Bella not being a woman and will never be a woman?

He's been given a warning - as it seems to be his first offense. There won't be a next time.

[runningdownthatdream]

Krissy it seems that you have exclusive rights on defining what is right, wrong, and in-between. I guess only your truth is important? You're preaching unity which is fantastic and i don't think anyone doubts your intentions are noble but you're bloody well savvy enough to know that that can only be accomplished through compromise - politics makes strange bedfellows is the cliche and it sure does apply here.

if you truly mean what you say then reaching agreement (more or less) with Bella should go a far way towards proving that you girls CAN unify.

[GroobyKrissy]

Krissy it seems that you have exclusive rights on defining what is right, wrong, and in-between. I guess only your truth is important? You're preaching unity which is fantastic and i don't think anyone doubts your intentions are noble but you're bloody well savvy enough to know that that can only be accomplished through compromise - politics makes strange bedfellows is the cliche and it sure does apply here.

if you truly mean what you say then reaching agreement (more or less) with Bella should go a far way towards proving that you girls CAN unify.

Look, Bella is not here to defend herself anymore and thus I will not speak on what she has said any further except to ask of you:

Do you see "compromise" written ANYWHERE in what she has written regarding the CD/TV community? And I don't mean just writing "Oh they're OK" because she wants to appear "tolerant". Here is your answer: It isn't there. The very term "compromise" dictates a moving together of two objects to form one... you can't compromise with a brick wall, and trying to do so is futile.

I have never argued "right" or "wrong" or "in between" on this issue so I don't know to what you're referring to here. I have also never claimed that "my truth" (a phrase I have never written BTW) is the only one. If you have a specific question on something specific I have said or written, then ask that instead of making something up, please.

I have argued that most Transsexuals that I've engaged in ON THIS BOARD and in other avenues, cannot even accurately define the issue themselves, or more importantly, accurately define what separates themselves from the greater Transgender spectrum.

I have argued that many Transsexuals, will not be honest about their roots, their lives, their past. I have done so here in another thread. Honesty is key in having a debate. If you're going to make up some fairy tale that you knew before you were in the womb that you were Transsexual, then there is no room for debate at all.

I have argued that many Transsexuals have a superiority complex that hits them just about the time the are "beautiful" enough to live 24/7 as a "woman" - and then they magically forget where they actually came from. It is the story of ugly girl turned beauty queen who then bullies and ridicules all the ugly girls. From just the last few hours I can pull up a couple of examples of the "Yeah, I'm not one of them - eeww... gross" mentality that I find destructive from girls. (Folks - the Internet is forever... those pictures of you when you were first starting out in porn and could readily be identified as "just a CD" ... yeah... still around...)

I will engage ANYONE in polite, logical, discourse on any issues regarding the TS vs. TG issue. I'm not afraid of it and am educated on both sites. But, both sides have to be honest, open, and willing to LISTEN - all things I do. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to call you out if your points aren't valid, logical, or saying anything... If you don't agree, refute them as I do when I don't agree with your points. I don't dodge issues. I don't sidestep questions. I answer them... completely... honestly.

If you can sway me in my OPINIONS, then do so with logic and discourse. I am more than open to learning, adapting my opinions, and if a stronger argument can be made... I want to hear it and adopt it.

[nysprod]

What do you mean Bella isn't here to defend herself anymore?