Usama bin Laden is dead

[hippifried]

You can't "fight" hatred any more that you can "fight" any other mental illness. Hatred & fighting go hand in hand. They feed & expand each other.

What's really needed is a rethink of the mindset. We're stuck in a war motif. We don't think twice about declaring war on every problem. Huh? Everything we do is geared as a fight. Why? Are we enemies? Is everybody everybody else's enemy? Of course not. Then why are we thinking like this. Why is a fight the first thing that pops into our heads or comes out of our mouths when looking at trying to solve problems? I thought we lived in a society. When looking for solutions, shouldn't our first thought be about cooperative effort? Just seems like more would get done.

[yodajazz]

I dont think that hate can be wiped out. But it could be diminished with specific types of effort, mostly media kind of stuff. I look at it this way: racism against Black Americans still exists, but at least it is not as socially acceptable as it once was. Some of it is just promoting understanding, over ignorance.

An example would be understanding of the term "infidels" used in the Koran. Contrary to what many people think, this term does not apply to Christian's and Jews, in the Koran. But when it is translated into English, it can have a different meaning; meaning those who are not Christians. So thus, when English speaking people, see a translated Koran verse, they can easily get the wrong understanding. Then this wrong understand is passed along to others. It's a very important area to understand. If you believe that one's (Muslims) religious texts are telling them to fight and kill you, because of your faith, it has important consequences on your world views. If there are Muslims using the term in the Christian definition, they are doing it inspite of the Koran, not because of it.

I suggest the Wikipedia discussion of the term, regarding Islam, for those that want a reference.

[hippifried]

None of this is about religion. Irrational hatred isn't a religious function. You can't explain reality to an irrational person & expect them to become rational. Dwelling on minutiae, like he meaning of words, won't solve anything. A rational person will look at the context anyway. You don't need to understand the tenets & dogma of a religion to choose not to hate the people who believe it. A rational person, regardless of beliefs, knows that any belief has to be a conscious choice, & can't be forced. Religion just bcomes a stimulent, to fanaticize what would normally be a political cause. You're still only going to get so many of the adherents. That's why alQaeda has maybe a couple thousand members out of way over a billion Muslims, & they're recruiting in the middle of a foreign occupied war zone.

Hatred is a manifestation of fear. There's irrational fear & hatred, & the assholes who promote it, in every grouping of people. How do you "fight" that? Who's the enemy? A group will tend to defend their own against attack, & that's why the fight motif can't work against hatred. That attitude just exacerbates the problem because you have to attack every grouping of people. Even your own. You're trying to open a can of whoopass on the entire planet. You're tilting at windmills. Time to look at other strategies. Other tactics if nothing else. This ain't workin', & the fear/hate promoters are getting louder. Most people are rational & reasonable. Expose the hate promotions for what they are & reasonable people won't get sucked in.

[yodajazz]

I think that we basically agree. And you are absolutely correct to connect hatred with fear. When I spoke of "fighting hate", I meant using what I call, 'opposing forces', such as those you referred to such as understanding, and rationality. I would also include promoting love, as a general principle, especially since this is was the only thing that Jesus commanded us to do.

I also agree with you that most people are reasonable and rational. However it does seem to me that poorer and less educated people are more prone to be persuaded by faulty and emotional arguments. Seems to me I see lots of that, in the volatile Middle East. A recent story about unrest in Egypt comes to mind. Someone told a crowd of Muslims that a Christian was firing on them. But there was no indication that this was actually true; that is, it was really a Christian. And then why? There were rumors of Christian women, who had converted to Islam being kidnapped, presumedly, by their Christian husbands. And the article did state, in one case, the women appeared on television to deny she had been kidnapped. But the result of the unrest was, that Muslims (apparently), burned down a Christian church. But so many of the readers comments, seem to see it as a purely religious issue, rather than a more in-depth analysis. So the issue of misunderstanding is not limited to the Middle East.

My major disagreement with your post, is when you said that "none of it is about religion". (But I suspect, you were using a hyperbole). I would say, that it is more about other things, than it is about religion. A major view that I hold, is that religions are philosophies, and they are all about ideas. Ideas are best influence by other ideas, often within the same philosophy. This does not require that a person suspend their belief in thier religion. It simply requires them to reframe, their understanding, often using the rational arguments, you referred to.

[DirtyDon]

That was a great day. I celebrate whenever I recall it.

[Prospero]

How about the "Franklin D Roosevelt" is dead thread next, ditydon... as you continue your archaeology

[trish]

I fight the temptation to celebrate anyone's death. The suggestion reminds me of reports that Palestinians danced in the streets in celebration of the collapse of the Twin Towers. It also recalls the gloating (even on these boards) when the U.S. Marines were forced to kill three pirates to save Captain Phillips' life in 2009. In all likelihood the world is better off without Osama bin Laden. I'm certainly not mourning his death, nor celebrating his life. Let's just let his memory live in ignominy.

One guy I wouldn't mind seeing tortured a bit is the infamous "shoe-bomber," for the crime of making my time spent in airports as miserable as possible. If I were his warden, I'd have him take off his shoes and put them back on again while standing, over and over and over and over again all day long, seven days a week, three-hundred-and-sixty-five days a year with no bathroom or prayer breaks. One time for each of the billions of people in world who has to go through this useless ritual just because of him.

[Prospero]

is he still dead?

[trish]

is he still dead?

No. On the third day he rose again.

[Dino Velvet]

Driving a tow truck in Sherman Oaks pretending to be Persian now.