Shaming men attracted to Trans Women...

[lar336]

Great thread here with some very thoughtful posts. I have been with many T-girls both in LTRs and short term flings. In real life I believe that most T-girls are actually friendly and appreciative toward men who like them. Not all, but most, at least from my experience.

The negativity discussed here is probably more present on the internet than in real life.

Couldn't said it any better Mike. Just like with genetic woman, there are many different perspectives out there and I had my experience with T-girls that are like you said and others there are like described here.


On a side note of the article, it said there are men attracted to women and ts women are among them. The universe of women is changing to include not only genetic girls anymore. Sexuality is a poorly understood subject because if you look the history of sciences, engineering, chemistry, biology go back centuries. But sexuality only decades really, which seem to be started doing the 70s and 80s. So science hasn't really deeply understood this subject yet. But what I seen from history is science on any subject is always expanding beyond the narrow perspective it starts from. As in for example, when people taught the earth was flat b/c the idea of gravity wasn't known. Than taught the earth was the center of the universe. We begin to learn that not everything resolves around us, there is a circle of life for which we are only a part of. I think the same for sexuality in the future, it will be much more expansive to include ts women, women, and who knows what else. But in the end we will find it is all part of the same circle, not separate but one of the same origin.

[theone1982]

I found this whole thread to be great. This idea is really fascinating to me, as someone who is attracted to t-girls, I've found myself wondering if I am turned on by the idea of a woman who at one point lived as a man? Am I attracted to the sort of hyper femininity that the t-girls I've known seem to have had? Is it just the individual, gender details aside? Is it a sort of hidden homosexuality? Is it varying degrees of all these things, some of them, or others? At this point, I don't really know. I do know, however, that I am incredibly attracted to t-girls, and that seems to be the starting point for most people here on this forum.

[nysprod]

Great thread here with some very thoughtful posts. I have been with many T-girls both in LTRs and short term flings. In real life I believe that most T-girls are actually friendly and appreciative toward men who like them. Not all, but most, at least from my experience.

The negativity discussed here is probably more present on the internet than in real life.

So what happened with your many LTR's, if you don't mind me asking.

[lar336]

I found this whole thread to be great. This idea is really fascinating to me, as someone who is attracted to t-girls, I've found myself wondering if I am turned on by the idea of a woman who at one point lived as a man? Am I attracted to the sort of hyper femininity that the t-girls I've known seem to have had? Is it just the individual, gender details aside? Is it a sort of hidden homosexuality? Is it varying degrees of all these things, some of them, or others? At this point, I don't really know. I do know, however, that I am incredibly attracted to t-girls, and that seems to be the starting point for most people here on this forum.

Absolutely, there are really more questions than answers on the subject. However, at this point, I never liked the idea of associating attraction to t-girls as gay simply because it would be confusing for the social world. Imagine if someone said they are gay b/c they like t-girls, than went to a bar and said they are gay...certainly they get hits from gay men if there were ones there (assuming the attraction is there). And, thus, you see the confusion. It is just easier at this point to consider it separate from the "gay world."

[bluesoul]

Absolutely, there are really more questions than answers on the subject. However, at this point, I never liked the idea of associating attraction to t-girls as gay simply because it would be confusing for the social world. Imagine if someone said they are gay b/c they like t-girls, than went to a bar and said they are gay...certainly they get hits from gay men if there were ones there (assuming the attraction is there). And, thus, you see the confusion. It is just easier at this point to consider it separate from the "gay world."

by your example: it seems to me like it would be better and less confusing if he identifed as being gay. reason?

if that person goes to a club and says he is gay, then he is more likely to met someone who a). in transition b). a crossdresser not in dress c). a drag queen not in drag or d). a drag queen or crossdresser in dress/drag e). a femboy

this is similar to how a forum like hungangels caters to transsexuals, crossdressers (both admirers who enjoy dressing for transsexuals and crossdressers who enjoy men) as well as men who have had sex with other men (note: hungangels forums has threads dedicated to all the above)

on a straight forum, it's less likely to have such a diversity and instead a mentality that doesn't deviate or experiment beyond "vagina"

with that said, i completely disagree that associating attraction to t-girls as gay simply because it would be confusing for the social world. in fact, i say it's confusing not to, for the above reasons stated as well as the fact that (as of current) the social world recognizes it as a gay

[MacShreach]

Well, I can certainly see the first item on the list, but if if I'm an example of LESS self-loathing and MORE positivity in comparison to previous generations of tgirls, I shudder to think what it was like for them. Fending off my own self-hatred and maintaining positivity about my future are the two hardest daily tasks I deal with. Most days I don't succeed with them.

Hey girl, you're cool. Believe it. x

[yodajazz]

I think she should of also brought up the trans-women who shame the men attracted to us. It's not just society.

Care to elaborate on that?

We used to get called names here on a regular basis by some of the girls. I remember one who, got to me, bad. She was a post op, who admitted to being bisexual. But she called a man, who wanted a three-some with his gg girl, and a pre-op, a "cock loving fag', or something close. In fact she said that all men, who were attracted to pre-ops were secretly gay. After some deep self examination, I came to the conclusion that she was just a regular hypocrite.

[Wendy Summers]

We used to get called names here on a regular basis by some of the girls. I remember one who, got to me, bad. She was a post op, who admitted to being bisexual. But she called a man, who wanted a three-some with his gg girl, and a pre-op, a "cock loving fag', or something close. In fact she said that all men, who were attracted to pre-ops were secretly gay. After some deep self examination, I came to the conclusion that she was just a regular hypocrite.

That was something which really bothered me when I first arrived on Hung Angels. Most of the regular TS posters were slamming every guy here with that. Now, in my experience there ARE some guys who get off on being called a cock sucking faggot, but its NOT the majority of guys who dig TS.

In terms of guys being afraid to be seen in public, I think it's a more complicated issue than folks typically talk about. There are issues of privilege tied to it. Prior to starting to work in Adult Entertainment, I was under the radar as a transperson. I wasn't intentionally stealth, but the folks who did know me pre-transition tended to keep their mouths shut on the topic. Add in the fact that I'm well employed in Corporate America and well integrated in the world in general, it placed me in an odd situation for a transsexual.

When I dated guys, they were not open about dating transsexuals, but they did often introduce me to friends and family. Over time, they would eventually come out to some of the people close to them that I was a transsexual. The difference had to do with the fact that I seemed "normal". I looked like an average woman; I was fully employed at a respectable job; my friends were pretty much all cis-people. I had a lower hurdle to cross to be in people's comfort zones.

The reality is most transpeople don't have a "normal" life. And that adds stress to a guy who likes us. How can he go about introducing someone when he can't use the typical points you use to explain why this person would be a good relationship. "What does she do?" is a harder question to answer when the woman is underemployed. In a world where we are obsessed with what other people think, the further the woman deviates from the societal norms, the more the guy needs to be someone who cares less about what other people think.

[lar336]

by your example: it seems to me like it would be better and less confusing if he identifed as being gay. reason?

if that person goes to a club and says he is gay, then he is more likely to met someone who a). in transition b). a crossdresser not in dress c). a drag queen not in drag or d). a drag queen or crossdresser in dress/drag e). a femboy

this is similar to how a forum like hungangels caters to transsexuals, crossdressers (both admirers who enjoy dressing for transsexuals and crossdressers who enjoy men) as well as men who have had sex with other men (note: hungangels forums has threads dedicated to all the above)

on a straight forum, it's less likely to have such a diversity and instead a mentality that doesn't deviate or experiment beyond "vagina"

with that said, i completely disagree that associating attraction to t-girls as gay simply because it would be confusing for the social world. in fact, i say it's confusing not to, for the above reasons stated as well as the fact that (as of current) the social world recognizes it as a gay

I see your point especially if want attraction from femboys or cd. But some men who interested in tgirls want someone passable or full time. So I guess it depends on what kind of tgirls the person is interested in

[MacShreach]

That was something which really bothered me when I first arrived on Hung Angels. Most of the regular TS posters were slamming every guy here with that. Now, in my experience there ARE some guys who get off on being called a cock sucking faggot, but its NOT the majority of guys who dig TS.

In terms of guys being afraid to be seen in public, I think it's a more complicated issue than folks typically talk about. There are issues of privilege tied to it. Prior to starting to work in Adult Entertainment, I was under the radar as a transperson. I wasn't intentionally stealth, but the folks who did know me pre-transition tended to keep their mouths shut on the topic. Add in the fact that I'm well employed in Corporate America and well integrated in the world in general, it placed me in an odd situation for a transsexual.

When I dated guys, they were not open about dating transsexuals, but they did often introduce me to friends and family. Over time, they would eventually come out to some of the people close to them that I was a transsexual. The difference had to do with the fact that I seemed "normal". I looked like an average woman; I was fully employed at a respectable job; my friends were pretty much all cis-people. I had a lower hurdle to cross to be in people's comfort zones.

The reality is most transpeople don't have a "normal" life. And that adds stress to a guy who likes us. How can he go about introducing someone when he can't use the typical points you use to explain why this person would be a good relationship. "What does she do?" is a harder question to answer when the woman is underemployed. In a world where we are obsessed with what other people think, the further the woman deviates from the societal norms, the more the guy needs to be someone who cares less about what other people think.

That was well put. I think it is difficult for men to be open if they are in a relationship with a transwoman. Personally I think I am soooo lucky to even know someone as absolutely lovely as my girlfriend; f others can't see her beauty, which is inside and out, then, as my auntie Ruth says, 'Fuck 'em.' But I do understand--because I might be quite thick-skinned, but not that much-- how difficult it is to be open.

I do think the context of this case is important, because I think the macho ethos of the hip-hop scene and its emphasis on masculinity is not at all helpful to transwomen, or in fact any form of non-hetero-normative expression of gender or sexuality. Like all these expressions of patriarchy, men are sucked in, yet often don't fit.

The fact is that in a lifetime of working in the creative spheres, I have never yet met an artist who was completely 100% straight (including me) simply because creation itself is a feminine function. So art forms that promote really extreme masculinity are a bit like an oxymoron.

Mr Cee clearly has some issues to face up to, but one of those is that he has helped to promote a cultural movement that is extremely conservative about sex and gender, while he himself is not; sounds a bit hypocritical to me.