We're Not Gay And We're Not Straight

[wiltthestilt]

This was also about what I said in the first post:

"Are guys like us who are into TGirls totally straight? I say no. We are turned on by male genitalia after all (even though it's "attached" to a feminine form). Let's be real about that."

I read a lot when I first joined about how guys (like me) into TGirls saw themselves as "straight"...I didn't agree with it but I was new and didn't want to come off like a know-it-all or worse, a troll. But I knew at some point I wanted to talk about it because I'm in this.

So now I've been here for a while, I've read a lot, posted, participated etc, and I figured since people were somewhat familiar with me it would be OK to talk about it in a way that was open and non-judgmental. I think I accomplished this because I didn't see one post where the person was offended by my saying that guys into TGirls are not totally straight.

I'm into TGirls...I don't believe I'm totally straight anymore...I just want to be real about it...saying it anonymously on a forum isn't much, I guess, but it's a start.

Is there such a thing as "totally straight"? How do you know your totally straight neighbor isn't watching TS porn, too? Obviously not every straight man watches TS porn as we do-although a large number of men who watch porn regularly also sometimes watch TS porn, and it's not even unusual any more.

By "being real" I assume you mean accepting that my sexuality departs in some substantial way from the norm. I don't know that this is true--so I will not accept it as it true. I think if there were no social stigma the majority of straight men would fuck Domino when they were horny. Maybe a majority would do it right now. I'm not every man, so I don't know what every man or most men would do.

I wouldn't fuck an obese woman (even when drunk, which would make it even harder to stay aroused); yet many men do it. I would think a beautiful TS like Vaniity or Eva Lin would be closer to paradigmatic image of feminine beauty than Gabourey Sidibe (actress who played "Precious")--yet, some men would fuck the latter, and claim they would never fuck the former. Whatever. Different strokes. If I am different, I at least intend to enjoy myself--which is what "being real" means to me.

[nysprod]

....but oddly comforting. I mean, what would we talk about if they weren't always here?

btw.....

Six nations rugby...

[bluesoul]

That is because we are part of the LGBT community.

Often the discrimination against us overlaps with homophobia.

i know you are- hence i was using that as an example as to why one wouldn't be straight if blah blah blah

[Jimmy W]

If I had a gun to my head and was forced to say that if I am very much attracted to Evon Rose it makes me gay..then... it makes me gay. If I had a gun to my head and was forced to say that if I am very much attracted to Evon Rose it makes me a guy who likes beautiful girls who have a penis...then ...it makes me a guy who likes beautiful girls who have a penis. Luckily, my friends with guns keep them locked up and could care less about how hot I think Evon Rose is. On the other hand, if Evon Rose ever wants to know how hot I think she is she wont need to put a gun to my head.

(supply your own penis/gun jokes as you see fit)

[Saint_Frankenstein]

Exactly this.

The problem is , trying to convince or otherwise educate the rest of society who does not think like you. Which is sometimes in itself a futile effort.

To me a transwoman, is just a woman. The physical characteristics don't define her, what defines her, is how she perceives herself. However that might not match up to what most of society "sees". She might feel, perceive, behave, like a woman, but to some of society she will always be a man.

It's all about personal perception. Do you define yourself by society's standards or by your own?

I know people that think, when knowing a couple's genitalia (not my viewpoints):
vagina + vagina = homosexual/lesbian/gay . Of course this includes gg women that do not identify as men, although they might be "studs" or butch. This includes transmen as long as they still have a vagina. I know people that take it even further and say, that even if a transman gets the bottom surgery, they are still in fact a woman biologically.

penis + penis= homosexual/gay . They include of course the cisgender males who are attracted to other males. They include transsexual women , who have or have not had the bottom surgery, regardless if they pass 100% as a woman.

There's also people that say they are in fact a third Gender, and neither female or male, or both. How does society classify that person's relationship with a person who Identifies as their birth gender?
example: Third gender who outwardly looks female (born male) dates cis Male
some of society: might classify this as a homosexual relationship
some of society: might classify this as a heterosexual relationship
some of society: might say "there's no such thing as a third gender , you're either female or male"
some of society: might say "since she is third gender , that makes the cis male that dates her , a 3rdgendersexual (made up the word)"

Then you have the "plumbing" people. Example, Thomas Beattie being a pregnant "man" , while still having a functioning uterus and ovaries.
Some of society: says, he is in fact still a woman, because he has a uterus
some of society: might say, "thomas beattie is in fact a man who is pregnant"

Add that , to the androgynous people that blur the gender lines. Where do they and their partners fit in the whole "gay or straight" spectrum.


And of course I know (and agree with) people that say
A Man= includes transmen that identify, live as, Men.
A woman= includes transwomen that Identify, and live as women.

Can we get everyone to agree some day? Probably Not. There's people that will always believe what they believe (the tired abortion debate proves this)

So to answer the original poster's question.

I am a male (cisgendered), that is attracted to women. That makes me straight. Of course a segment of society is going to say I'm gay/homosexual/bisexual if I date and have sexual relations with a transwoman, regardless of her passability and surgery status.. Do I let that define me? No

I'm really at the point where I couldn't be arsed to give into how society defines things. Only I get to define myself. The only opinion about who I am that matters is mine and I know who and what I am. We are individual units of awareness, after all. I have my own perception of self. If someone wishes to disagree or disrespect me for viewing myself as I do, that's their damn problem. I don't want those people around me anyway, if they're not willing to learn from someone who is different from them. Life's too short.

But society slowly yet surely is learning. I'd say the trans rights movement is in the same the gay rights movement was in the early '90s or so.

[EvonRose]

If I had a gun to my head and was forced to say that if I am very much attracted to Evon Rose it makes me gay..then... it makes me gay. If I had a gun to my head and was forced to say that if I am very much attracted to Evon Rose it makes me a guy who likes beautiful girls who have a penis...then ...it makes me a guy who likes beautiful girls who have a penis. Luckily, my friends with guns keep them locked up and could care less about how hot I think Evon Rose is. On the other hand, if Evon Rose ever wants to know how hot I think she is she wont need to put a gun to my head.

(supply your own penis/gun jokes as you see fit)

Awww cuddle!!!!!!!

[robertlouis]

I've always liked girls who are ultra-fem, so when I see somebody like Evon or Amber, for example, I just see a beautiful woman, full stop. Truthfully don't think about what may or may not lie between their legs. I'm attracted by their sheer femininity and will always treat them as ladies just because it's what I do.

And I couldn't give a flying fuck if that makes me gay or not. I know what I like and what I like makes me happy. Who cares if someone else wants to slap a label on that?

[Prospero]

RL might be a scot but sometimes he hits the nail on the head. I agree 100 per cent with the last sentiment. Labels are meaningless. A girl is a girl or a woman.... treat them all with respect.

[robertlouis]

"May be a Scot, but...."

WTF??? I'll nail your fuckin' head tae the wall so ah wull, ya sassenach bastart!

[Prospero]

Scratch a scot and out comes the woad covered Pictish primitive... but hey labels don't matter do they mr Pict