The FAST Approaching Gun Ban

[fivekatz]

I remember when the Manson Family was the pinnacle of insanity, but you really almost can't say anything about 20 little kids getting murdered in a school. The Republican Party gets tons of support and affirmation from the section of the country that puts God, Guts, and Guns before logic. But every redneck has a Mom, and protecting kids crosses party lines.

I only question whether a society that suffers from attention deficit syndrome and hardly hangs on to anything past a news cycle will have a lasting memory of Newtown, since it seems neither VT or Columbine made a dent.

[robertlouis]

Sorry to be a kill joy... but a reminder about what this thread is about.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...-mexico/61199/

A 15-year-old was arrested Sunday for allegedly killing a family Saturday evening just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico, after using the weapon that's dominated much of the gun control conversation -- the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

(Update, Monday: What We Know About the Shooter, and His Plan to Shoot Up a Walmart)

Here's what we know for sure: a family of five was found dead in a house in a secluded area just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico on Saturday night. The bodies included an adult male, and adult female, one juvenile male and two juvenile females . An unidentified 15-year-old was arrested and charged for killing all five people. Several weapons were found inside the house, including a military style assault rifle. Police officials wouldn't disclose any relation between the shooter and the family or any of the identities, either.

Locally, KOB 4 reports the father's name is Greg Griego, a local pastor who works with the fire department, and the shooter's name is Nehemiah Griego. A neighbour told the Associated Press he "has seen a married couple and their two boys and two girls from time to time." KOB also reports police believe the shooter primarily used an AR-15 rifle, the same weapon used by James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado and Adam Lanza in Newtown, Connecticut.

More details are emerging about Nehemiah Griego, the 15-year-old suspected gunman accused of shooting his father, mother, and three siblings to death with an AR-15 — and they add up to a gruesome picture of a teenager with a van packed with guns and a plan to shoot up his local Walmart in New Mexico. Here's what we've learned since the shooting early on Saturday:

Police have released the names of the victims:
Greg Griego 51, a former pastor with Calvary Church in Albuquerque, his wife Sara Greigo 40, and 9-year-old Zephania Griego, 5-year-old Jael Griego, and 2-year-old Angelina Griego.
Nehemiah Griego, Greg and Sarah's home-schooled son, shot his mother and his brothers in their beds multiple times at around 1 a.m. Saturday and then waited for his father, police said. There were 10 Griego children, but only the youngest were home on Friday night.
"[A]uthorities believe Nehemiah then put several loaded weapons, including the assault rifle, in the family van with the plan to drive to the nearest Walmart, gun down more people and eventually die in a shootout with police," report The Albuquerque Journal's Jeff Proctor and Patrick Lohmann. The Journal also reports that Griego called a friend before carrying out the rest of his plan, and that the friend got Griego to meet him at the church where Griego's father was a pastor.
The two guns used in the shooting — an AR-15 assault rifle and a .22 caliber pistol — seem to have belonged to Griego's parents. Griego "had a minor disagreement with his mother on Friday night," The Journal reports, adding:
Authorities believe Nehemiah’s parents owned the guns. The weapons had been stored in a closet, not in a gun safe. They also believe Nehemiah may have had violent fantasies including killing and murder-suicide scenarios for much of his life.


And don't blame video games, because Griego was not allowed to play them. Again, from Proctor and Lohmann's Journal reporting:
Another neighbor said Nehemiah wanted to be a soldier. Although he always wore Army clothing and camouflage, Nehemiah wasn’t allowed to play violent video games, the neighbor said, since the boy’s parents didn’t allow anything “dirty or violent” and limited TV watching.
Griego is currently in a juvenile detention center, and authorities are looking more more information: "Nehemiah Griego was charged with two counts of murder and three counts of 'child abuse resulting in death.' A motive is unclear, and authorities plan to hold a news conference Tuesday," reports The New York Daily News's Erik Ortiz.

With respect, that's NOT what the original intent of this thread was about. The intention of the OP was to urge gun owners to stock up on guns and ammunition quickly in the wake of the Newtown horror before the nasty government could prise the weapons from their cold dead fingers.

And that's why I rather suspect that Obama's defiant declaration will turn into dust and idiots will continue to proclaim their rights to maintain personal arsenals the size of a mountain while massacres of innocents will continue ad infinitum.

America is schizophrenic and paranoid about its mad weapons culture and is seriously, possibly fatally, fucked up because of it.

[Prospero]

You are right RL... I forgot a pro gun person started this thread.Whoops.

[yodajazz]

Sorry to be a kill joy... but a reminder about what this thread is about.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...-mexico/61199/

A 15-year-old was arrested Sunday for allegedly killing a family Saturday evening just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico, after using the weapon that's dominated much of the gun control conversation -- the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

(Update, Monday: What We Know About the Shooter, and His Plan to Shoot Up a Walmart)

Here's what we know for sure: a family of five was found dead in a house in a secluded area just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico on Saturday night. The bodies included an adult male, and adult female, one juvenile male and two juvenile females . An unidentified 15-year-old was arrested and charged for killing all five people. Several weapons were found inside the house, including a military style assault rifle. Police officials wouldn't disclose any relation between the shooter and the family or any of the identities, either.

Locally, KOB 4 reports the father's name is Greg Griego, a local pastor who works with the fire department, and the shooter's name is Nehemiah Griego. A neighbour told the Associated Press he "has seen a married couple and their two boys and two girls from time to time." KOB also reports police believe the shooter primarily used an AR-15 rifle, the same weapon used by James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado and Adam Lanza in Newtown, Connecticut.

More details are emerging about Nehemiah Griego, the 15-year-old suspected gunman accused of shooting his father, mother, and three siblings to death with an AR-15 — and they add up to a gruesome picture of a teenager with a van packed with guns and a plan to shoot up his local Walmart in New Mexico. Here's what we've learned since the shooting early on Saturday:

Police have released the names of the victims:
Greg Griego 51, a former pastor with Calvary Church in Albuquerque, his wife Sara Greigo 40, and 9-year-old Zephania Griego, 5-year-old Jael Griego, and 2-year-old Angelina Griego.
Nehemiah Griego, Greg and Sarah's home-schooled son, shot his mother and his brothers in their beds multiple times at around 1 a.m. Saturday and then waited for his father, police said. There were 10 Griego children, but only the youngest were home on Friday night.
"[A]uthorities believe Nehemiah then put several loaded weapons, including the assault rifle, in the family van with the plan to drive to the nearest Walmart, gun down more people and eventually die in a shootout with police," report The Albuquerque Journal's Jeff Proctor and Patrick Lohmann. The Journal also reports that Griego called a friend before carrying out the rest of his plan, and that the friend got Griego to meet him at the church where Griego's father was a pastor.
The two guns used in the shooting — an AR-15 assault rifle and a .22 caliber pistol — seem to have belonged to Griego's parents. Griego "had a minor disagreement with his mother on Friday night," The Journal reports, adding:
Authorities believe Nehemiah’s parents owned the guns. The weapons had been stored in a closet, not in a gun safe. They also believe Nehemiah may have had violent fantasies including killing and murder-suicide scenarios for much of his life.


And don't blame video games, because Griego was not allowed to play them. Again, from Proctor and Lohmann's Journal reporting:
Another neighbor said Nehemiah wanted to be a soldier. Although he always wore Army clothing and camouflage, Nehemiah wasn’t allowed to play violent video games, the neighbor said, since the boy’s parents didn’t allow anything “dirty or violent” and limited TV watching.
Griego is currently in a juvenile detention center, and authorities are looking more more information: "Nehemiah Griego was charged with two counts of murder and three counts of 'child abuse resulting in death.' A motive is unclear, and authorities plan to hold a news conference Tuesday," reports The New York Daily News's Erik Ortiz.

Okay, we have this shooter, with five dead, and the other recent incidents mentioned in the article. how many dead is that? Can anyone provide documentation that an 'assault' styled weapon that saved lives, where as a 'regular' gun would not have worked in saving the lives? An even if it did, how many lives did it saved versus the number of recent victims? Bottom line is that we are only talking about assault type weapons. The argument is that their potential harm of taking out a large number of people in a few seconds, is greater than it's protective factor in our nation. We have law enforcement and private security professionals who are trained to provide security.

In the past few days here, we have had two children under 6, killed by gun accidents. There was one freak accident at a gun show, where a person was wounded. One adult was killed during an argument at a bar. So far I have not heard any evidence that the person in the bar would have been saved, if more people had guns. This past weekend, I once again went to a friend's house that lives across the street from a house where one pre-teen brother killed his brother, while handling a gun. Everyone describe them as always together, inseparable. The house is very small. What did they have that was more valuable than the lives of their children? What are the chances of a 'home invasion", vs curious children in the same house? It's about safety. It's about safety, vs risk. Every child should have a chance to make it to their seventh birthday. I say more people should evaluate true safety, in terms of probability, not fear.

[robertlouis]

You are right RL... I forgot a pro gun person started this thread.Whoops.

No offence intended and hopefully none taken, P. I just don't feel that all of Obama's sincerity and determination will overcome the innate madness which demands guns and more guns.

Interesting that Bill Gates stated unequivocally in a recent interview that he much preferred the UK's stance on gun ownership and use to that of the USA.

[thombergeron]

I dunno, RL. Democrats Feinstein and McCarthy reintroduced the assault weapons ban today. It's been a political non-starter for 8 years, so I think that's some progress. It will probably not become law, but it's been proposed and people are talking about it.

On the other hand, many of the measures that Obama outlined last week will likely come to pass. We will see effective and expanded background checks. We will see increased scrutiny of ammo sales. We will see the resumption of federally funded research on gun violence. We will see increased funding for mental health services and interventions.

These days, politics happens very slowly in the United States. The gun lobby has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past two decades buying legislators and stoking mouth-breather paranoia. You can't undo that over night. It will take a long time and tens of thousands more people will be killed. But we are moving forward.

[thombergeron]

Further, less perceptibly but perhaps more significantly, I think we're seeing a shift in the culture, some lessening of the "innate madness" as you call it. From my perspective, it seems that so-called "responsible" gun owners are becoming more and more alienated from the true gun nuts. You saw that when the NRA fell all over itself after Newtown. And keep in mind that, despite impressions, gun owners are a minority of the U.S. population. Most Americans do not own firearms. And polls consistently and increasingly show solid majorities supporting reasonable gun control.

[fred41]

A truly beautiful butt, but does it really belong to Trish?

No - she just borrowed it for the day

Nahhhh....It's hers. Her sincerity wouldn't allow her to post someone else's ass.







...(if it isn't her ass...I prefer she lies and says it's hers...lol)

...sorry,back to guns.

[robertlouis]

I dunno, RL. Democrats Feinstein and McCarthy reintroduced the assault weapons ban today. It's been a political non-starter for 8 years, so I think that's some progress. It will probably not become law, but it's been proposed and people are talking about it.

On the other hand, many of the measures that Obama outlined last week will likely come to pass. We will see effective and expanded background checks. We will see increased scrutiny of ammo sales. We will see the resumption of federally funded research on gun violence. We will see increased funding for mental health services and interventions.

These days, politics happens very slowly in the United States. The gun lobby has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past two decades buying legislators and stoking mouth-breather paranoia. You can't undo that over night. It will take a long time and tens of thousands more people will be killed. But we are moving forward.

You have no idea how much I'd love to be proved wrong on this one, Thom. So I await developments with both interest and hope.

Meanwhile, tomorrow, Friday 25 January, is my big national celebration as a Scot, when we gather in pubs, clubs and private houses to honour our national poet, Robert Burns, by reciting his poetry, singing his songs, drinking whisky and eating haggis, our esteemed national dish.

Now, did you know that haggis imported from Scotland is a prohibited foodstuff as far as the US food and drugs agency is concerned, so if you can lay your hands on a genuine Scottish haggis you would be committing a felony?

And you can go down to your local mall and buy an assault rifle and multiple clips without any fuss.

I'll leave you to add your own expression of irony.

[Ben]

The charming nature of the Republican Party.... I mean, someone like Reagan was a liberal compared to this crazy Republican Party. (Even Reagan in '94 wrote to Congress saying they should impose a ban on assault weapons):