Male student gang raped by muslim youth

[broncofan]

What I have done is caught a few reactionaries flying off at the keyboard without reading.

Just a small point. You were not catching people who did not read. We were aware of the fact that you said you were not mentioning it, but that by doing so you were mentioning it. It was gratuitous, mean-spirited, and irrelevant to the conversation.

I'm not going to mention your mother's alleged whoring.(let's see who actually reads and who's just a reactionary blowhard with a whore for a mother that we're not going to mention).

[broncofan]

Apologies to Prospero for reviving a deservedly dying thread, but by your logic, you would have to conclude that Christians in Europe are key to stopping white supremacist terrorists like Anders Breivik. To the best of my knowledge, no Muslims in Europe have gunned down 77 people, so clearly European chauvanistic violence is exclusively a problem for white Christians to solve.

More to the point, however, if I were to tell you that I, a non-Christian, was gangraped at 11 on a Boy Scout campout by 5 older boys who came from Mormon families, would you then conclude that Christianity is a brutal and primitive religion and that its adherents are motivated by a need to dominate "the other"?

The fundamental error that you are committing is to assume that any given culture or subculture has a monopoly on chaunvanism and violence. The offenders in the Belgian story may or may not be Muslim, but they are, quite obvioulsy, not the first teenagers to brutalize another child. Given that unassailable fact, your obsession with the role of Islam in this story reveals you as just another bigot.

I thought your post was well-put. I did not want to bump it off the main page by posting my little barb.

[tragicomedy]

I thought your post was well-put. I did not want to bump it off the main page by posting my little barb.

Well put except being wrong again. I said gangrape as an intimidation tactic is a universal phenomenon. Muslims are not unique in that regard. What is unique is a majority, indigenous population terrified to address it. Feminists from the Muslim population and child services personnel from the non-Muslim population are not shy to discuss it.

[Prospero]

Tragicomedy - I admit that I made a small error in saying you posted links to white supremacist links. But you clearly rely on these source for your information. Your position has slithered from an crude and blanket attack on the Muslim populations of Europe (I quote: "Why shouldn't theu attach it to Muslims? Go to a country wuth a large Muslim pop and you will see this behavior is common. It spread to many non-arab countries through Muslim.conquest." "Gangrape of gays and non-Muslims is common and.it.is.not.unheard of.in Europe. You guys need to wake.up because you are enabling these people." )
to a sort of back pedalling attempt to put your racism into a context of hating force. The only legitimate news sources you have offered were Flemish news reports which attribute the attack to immigrants - never once mentioning Muslims. As i pointed out i an earlier post the only sources on the web I an find which define this as an attack by Muslims were on right wing sites. Now again please offer some serious evidence of your wide attack on the sexual criminality you lay at the door of Muslims?

And regarding the genocide as others have pointed out YOU were the only person to raise it by saying you were not going to raise it. A grubby smear tactic against the Turkish person who posted.

Please also explain what you mean in labelling those who disagree with you as reactionary?

And finally please explain the correlation you see between the tenets of Muslim religious belief and sexual criminality?

[tragicomedy]

Tragicomedy - I admit that I made a small error in saying you posted links to white supremacist links. But you clearly rely on these source for your information. Your position has slithered from an crude and blanket attack on the Muslim populations of Europe (I quote: "Why shouldn't theu attach it to Muslims? Go to a country wuth a large Muslim pop and you will see this behavior is common. It spread to many non-arab countries through Muslim.conquest." "Gangrape of gays and non-Muslims is common and.it.is.not.unheard of.in Europe. You guys need to wake.up because you are enabling these people." )
to a sort of back pedalling attempt to put your racism into a context of hating force. The only legitimate news sources you have offered were Flemish news reports which attribute the attack to immigrants - never once mentioning Muslims. As i pointed out i an earlier post the only sources on the web I an find which define this as an attack by Muslims were on right wing sites. Now again please offer some serious evidence of your wide attack on the sexual criminality you lay at the door of Muslims?

And regarding the genocide as others have pointed out YOU were the only person to raise it by saying you were not going to raise it. A grubby smear tactic against the Turkish person who posted.

Please also explain what you mean in labelling those who disagree with you as reactionary?

And finally please explain the correlation you see between the tenets of Muslim religious belief and sexual criminality?

You made a HUGE error which enabled others to slander me. How can you then try to riff on my argument when you made such a blunder? Yes you and the others are reactionaries as you went directly into attack mode when you heard any deviation from political correctness. Ironically, Belgian sources haven't been shy in tackling the ethno-religious aspect to youth and violent crime in their.own.country the way English language media has been. This from the very people wanting to delete threads-that they haven't even taken time to.read. Prospero, you get credit for t least asking for sources and.for later apologizing but that only makes you the best of the reactionaries. I apologize for not answering the rest of your post but I am at work.and.simply.don't have the time to give you a worthy reply.

[Stavros]

You made a HUGE error which enabled others to slander me. How can you then try to riff on my argument when you made such a blunder? Yes you and the others are reactionaries as you went directly into attack mode when you heard any deviation from political correctness. Ironically, Belgian sources haven't been shy in tackling the ethno-religious aspect to youth and violent crime in their.own.country the way English language media has been. This from the very people wanting to delete threads-that they haven't even taken time to.read. Prospero, you get credit for t least asking for sources and.for later apologizing but that only makes you the best of the reactionaries. I apologize for not answering the rest of your post but I am at work.and.simply.don't have the time to give you a worthy reply.

It is not about political correctness, but facts. Thousands of people are arrested every day but are never charged, and some of those who are and are tried in court and are found guilty and sent to prison are innocent -you have no idea who committed the rape which started this thread, just as you have no idea if the people arrested are guilty -to judge people accused of a crime before they have even entered a court room is feeble, and has nothing to with pc but everything to do with justice. You did provide a link to a website that claimed the rapists were Muslims, even though it is not world famous for its objectivity, as most blogs are shaped more by opinions than fact. The same website provided video evidence of the 'initiation' ceremonies that students sometimes 'have to' endure, but you haven't spent much time asking why this kind of thing even exists in the 21st century whether it is among Belgian students or the 'hazing' of raw recruits in the US Armed Forces, or some club of toffs in Oxbridge or an elite college in Australia. Nobody needs to eat somebody else's shit to prove they are a man.
As for making a fuss about it, why? In the UK, for example, we have something called the rule of law, and it is there precisely in order to prevent a lynch-mob rushing out into the street and punishing a felon, real or imagined. I don't know of a single person who approves or condones rape of any kind, most of the people I know think the law is there to take over in such situations and we just hope -as in every crime- that the police do their work properly and arrest the right person(s) and that a fair trial concludes the process of judgement.

It seems to me you have a diifferent agenda, and that it has little to do with the law, and a lot to do with prejudice.

[tragicomedy]

It is not about political correctness, but facts. Thousands of people are arrested every day but are never charged, and some of those who are and are tried in court and are found guilty and sent to prison are innocent -you have no idea who committed the rape which started this thread, just as you have no idea if the people arrested are guilty -to judge people accused of a crime before they have even entered a court room is feeble, and has nothing to with pc but everything to do with justice. You did provide a link to a website that claimed the rapists were Muslims, even though it is not world famous for its objectivity, as most blogs are shaped more by opinions than fact. The same website provided video evidence of the 'initiation' ceremonies that students sometimes 'have to' endure, but you haven't spent much time asking why this kind of thing even exists in the 21st century whether it is among Belgian students or the 'hazing' of raw recruits in the US Armed Forces, or some club of toffs in Oxbridge or an elite college in Australia. Nobody needs to eat somebody else's shit to prove they are a man.
As for making a fuss about it, why? In the UK, for example, we have something called the rule of law, and it is there precisely in order to prevent a lynch-mob rushing out into the street and punishing a felon, real or imagined. I don't know of a single person who approves or condones rape of any kind, most of the people I know think the law is there to take over in such situations and we just hope -as in every crime- that the police do their work properly and arrest the right person(s) and that a fair trial concludes the process of judgement.

It seems to me you have a diifferent agenda, and that it has little to do with the law, and a lot to do with prejudice.

I was hoping you would bring up the UK as it has been perhaps the biggest failure in.combatting antisocial behavior Muslim or non-Muslim and at the same time the greatest source of p.c. Zealotry in all the Western world. Oh ye Guardianistas shall reap bitter tears. Later.

[trish]

Political correctness is a relative notion. Among the white supremacist, for example, it is politically correct to cry "reverse discrimination" whenever a woman wins equal pay for equal work, or whenever a black man becomes head of the Harvard Law Review, or cry "political correctness" whenever someone defends the construction of a Mosque or takes up the cause of a discriminated minority. Zealotry, like rape, knows no bounds.

[Stavros]

I was hoping you would bring up the UK as it has been perhaps the biggest failure in.combatting antisocial behavior Muslim or non-Muslim and at the same time the greatest source of p.c. Zealotry in all the Western world. Oh ye Guardianistas shall reap bitter tears. Later.

For what its worth every day I read The Guardian, The Daily Telegraph, The Independent, and the Financial Times. I am no more a Guardianista than I am a fashionista even if I can tell the difference between a Louis Vuitton and a Burberry handbag without having to go on the internet. There is a lot of anti-social behaviour on the streets of our towns and cities, most of it caused by an excess of alcohol consumption rather than by religion; indeed, it may be caused by an absence of religion. In other words, I have no idea what you are talking about; but I have a sinking feeling you are going to correct me.

[thombergeron]

Ironically, Belgian sources haven't been shy in tackling the ethno-religious aspect to youth and violent crime in their.own.country the way English language media has been.

None of the Belgian sources that you linked to in your earlier comment mention Islam in any way. It seems that you're the only one doing that. Could you offer some Belgian sources that tackle the ethno-religious aspect to youth and violent crime in Belgium to support your comment above?

You've backtracked and gone off on tangents a number of times, and you use written English poorly, so it's difficult to tell precisely what's got your panties in a bunch. But as best I can tell, you seem to have this general sense that Muslims living in European countries are using various forms of interpersonal violence to "dominate" non-Muslims in those countries, and that something called "political correctness" prevents this topic from being discussed openly.

If this is indeed your contention, you need to begin with some actual evidence. Thus far, you have a single, unresolved incident in a single country. Given your certainty, you must have some data in front of you on the rate of Muslim on non-Muslim violence on the European continent. Perhaps you could share that data.

I don't get to Europe much anymore, I'm afraid, so I would necessarily defer to whatever evidence you might have regarding the European context. However, my work often brings me to Indonesia. Since you are an expert on Islam, you are certainly aware that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country on Earth. Interestingly, the violent crime rate in Indonesia is quite low. Sexual assault is virtually unheard of, somewhere on the order of 0.7 per 100,000. By some estimates, the rate of sexual assault in the U.S. is about 32 times higher. Similarly, the rate of aggravated assault is about 89 times higher in the U.S. as compared to Indonesia.

Apropos of the reason everybody's here, Indonesia has a long tradition of cross-dressing and transgenderism, and transgender people are well integrated into Indonesia society and culture. Based upon the Indonesian context, one could easily conclude that Muslim cultures are far more tolerant of transgenderism than Christian cultures.