Democracy

[an8150]

Stavros, " There is a lot more to Israel than Ayn Rand or Netanyahu, and much of it is more positive and accommodating of change than you appear to be."

I agree. And talking of goodies and baddies, nice guys and savages, there are palestinian israelis and palestinian members of the knesset. On the other hand, a jew who sets foot in Gaza is toast.

And you're right, I'm not interested in the personal or political histories of murderers where those histories are used for mealy-mouthed equivocation over the precise nature of the murderous act.

A townhall meeting is a political act. As is a letter to a newspaper, or a million mum march (and I forget my other erstwhile example). Wearing a GOP pin badge or a "support Obama" bumper sticker is a political act. Murdering athletes is not a "political act". It's an act of murder. It is among the most wicked of all human behaviour, and your circumlocutions on the subject reveal a moral vacuum.

[an8150]

broncofan, I hadn't noticed that I had any positive votes. I'm probably too used to revelling in my role as a victimised minarchist. But thank you.

[Prospero]

Victimised ROFL.... you are the one with a hatred of the disease of liberal democracy.

[an8150]

That's a non sequitur, Prospero.

[Prospero]

so what... just as no one forces you to post here no one is forcing me to .. well whatever.. too tired to deal with your tiresome and wholly unrealistic and utopian nonsense. You DO realise that you are on a highway to nowhere...

[an8150]

The highway to nowhere? Yes, that'd be utopia. I'll assume you intended the pun.

Still, look on the bright side: you've learned about fascism, objectivism, the coercive nature of state action and minarchism.

[Ben]

Election Day Perspective: 6 Things to Keep in Mind:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...n-mind/264590/

[danthepoetman]

Well, congratulations to you, Americans, on your last democratic exercise...

Democracy
Leonard Cohen

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that it ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming through a crack in the wall,
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow on the street
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of G-d in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
o mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
past the Reefs of Greed
through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
that the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming to the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
o mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
past the Reefs of Greed
through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on

I'm sentimental if you know what I mean:
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

[Prospero]

Congrats to the USA.... but there is hard work and there are hard years ahead

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=an8150;1231734]Stavros, " There is a lot more to Israel than Ayn Rand or Netanyahu, and much of it is more positive and accommodating of change than you appear to be."

I agree. And talking of goodies and baddies, nice guys and savages, there are palestinian israelis and palestinian members of the knesset. On the other hand, a jew who sets foot in Gaza is toast.

-And as I am sure you are aware, Arab Israelis are second class citizens in Israel, their mosques and churches have been set ablaze by fanatics, mostly settlers crossing the border to commit these crimes, and of course Israel's occupation of the West Bank is illegal, as are the settlements there.
-You will also be aware that HAMAS, which was promoted by the Israelis in 1988-89, has more than once offered to negotiate and work with Israel. It is the government of Benjamin Netanyahu that has consistently worked to undermine the Oslo Accords.

And you're right, I'm not interested in the personal or political histories of murderers where those histories are used for mealy-mouthed equivocation over the precise nature of the murderous act.
A townhall meeting is a political act. As is a letter to a newspaper, or a million mum march (and I forget my other erstwhile example). Wearing a GOP pin badge or a "support Obama" bumper sticker is a political act. Murdering athletes is not a "political act". It's an act of murder. It is among the most wicked of all human behaviour, and your circumlocutions on the subject reveal a moral vacuum.
-I don't know what 'townhall meetings you are referring to in the context of Munich, and I don't know what a million mum march refers to either.
My attempt to provide you with an historical context was not mealy-mouthed, the language and reasoning I used was simple and clear; it was not an equivocation as I took a clear moral stand: Munich was a crime, and as a political act considered counter-productive by Arafat and his closest associates in Fateh, except of course for Abu Iyad, who in spite of Munich offered to negotiate a two-state deal with the Israelis.

The issue is not me making these comments in a moral vacuum, but you creating one by first stripping out the whole of the context and reducing all comment on the conflict between Israel and Palestine to violent acts. This suggests it doesn't matter to you if the Provisional IRA had a political agenda in the 1970s and 1980s, and that the same was true of say, the Brigate Rosse in Italy at the time; but also suggests that the Irgun who bombed the King David Hotel in Jersusalem in 1946 cannot be seen as political activists, but as murderers, which means that when, every year, Netanyahu takes part in the celebrations of this crime, he is celebrating murder, and not just the murder of British soldiers, of Arabs, but also of the Jews were who killed on that day.

King David Hotel, 1946; Munich 1972: what's the difference?

Or it could be that I have misunderstood you, and that you are a pacificst and condemn all forms of killing, with no regard to the cause.