17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[giovanni_hotel]

Let's get real. No 5'11, 158# kid with only his fists is a 'deadly threat' to a grown man.
At the time Zimmerman outweighed him by almost 40#.

For those of you that still believe Zimmerman's only rational response was to blow a hole through Trayvon's chest, I present you below with a surveillance video of a San Antonio deputy who's house was burglarized while he was at home, and the deputy fought off three unarmed criminals without firing a shot.
One man COMPLETELY in control of the situation without using deadly force, in a state where he had every legal right to grab his service pistol and start firing.

http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/loca...ideoid=3519149

Beyond whether or not Zimmerman was within his rights to use deadly force, or whether he believed Trayvon was about to kill(!) him, I simply cannot respect at all, as a grown man, how Zimmerman handled the situation.

When you decide my bloody nose is worth a kid's life, you become in my mind less than a human being.

[giovanni_hotel]

If a 190# Black man insinuated he felt his very life was threatened by a 158# unarmed White kid in a fight, and therefore felt the need to shoot him, would the same people be arguing the Black man's fear was justified??

Because the White kid was a football player??? Or because some 158# men in the military are hellraisers??

THere's a level of objectivity IMO many are lacking in this case, and this extreme benefit of the doubt that's being given to Zimmerman I just don't understand.

[buds]

How many break ins have happened since martin died at that gated community?

Hmmm

[fastingforlife]

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

[natina]

in the recording you can here zimmerman running after Trayvon Martin

you here the confrontation

Natina,

You have a recording of it? Like an audio recording?

I think this case will turn on what happened after Zimmerman did after he ended his 911 call. His girlfriend gave her statement. But, she's an interested party. If Trayvon had called 911 and it was recorded, or he reached his girlfriend's voicemail and it was recorded, that would be much stronger evidence.

I'd love to know more about this recording you are talking about. Is there a link to any article discussing this recording? Please post it.

[natina]

“Great bodily harm” is more serious or grave than lacerations, bruises, or abrasions that characterize “bodily harm.” See People v. Costello, 95 Ill. App. 3d 680 (1981).

[trish]

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.

I see we're now speaking hypothetically. So if the hypothetical Martin said, "I've got a gun!" and the hypothetical Zimmerman shot him dead on the spot, it would obviously not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a pez dispenser, let alone a gun.

By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.

Depends on how the hypothetical Martin displayed his weapon. Did he open his jacket and let the hypothetical Zimmerman see it hanging there all shiny and holstered? You do believe in concealed carry don't you? Or perhaps the hypothetical Martin held it handle pinched between thumb and forefinger, barrel pointed down and nowhere near the trigger. If the hypothetical Zimmerman shot and killed Martin simply for displaying his gun and no other reason, then it would not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself you shouldn't be allowed to carry a toothpick let alone a gun.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.

It would be a threat but not necessarily a justifiable reason for homicide. A good reason perhaps to blowout the hypothetical Martin's kneecap, but not a justification for homicide.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.

Wrong. By my logic deadly force may be justified in this situation. Let's review what you call my logic. The testimony of the shooter as to his state of mind (e.g. claiming, "I was afraid for my life.") is not sufficient evidence that the shooter's life was indeed in danger. The gun on the scene, cocked, with a bullet in the chamber and the testimony that "It was pointed directly at me," counts as evidence of considerably more solidity.

By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.

If the hypothetical Martin shot BB's from a BB gun at Zimmerman it certainly would not be justification for the hypothetical Zimmerman to use deadly force.

How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go?

By your logic if Martin through a paper airplane at Zimmerman, one sharp pointy paper nose, Zimmerman would be justified in using deadly force to defend himself. How far up that slope do you want to go?

But these are all hypothetical situations. The facts as we know them are that Zimmerman's life was in no way actually threatened. Trayvon didn't say he had a weapon. Trayvon didn't show a weapon. Trayvon didn't point a weapon. Trayvon didn't have a weapon. Zimmerman did. Zimmerman used it. And Trayvon is dead.

[giovanni_hotel]

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

[fastingforlife]

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

5' 11" is not short. And 158 lbs is not skinny. I wrestled at the 157 lb class in high school, weighing 152, and standing 6' 2" at 15 years old. I could have given Zimmerman a very difficult time at that age. By the time I was 17 I could have killed Zimmerman, and many others his size with my bear hands, never needing a weapon if I had wanted to. However, being a non-violent person, I never would have reacted the way Trayvon did. You can continue to think Trayvon was a weakling. I pass plenty of men Trayvon's size every day walking in Newark. Most could kick my ass today. But, unlike Zimmerman I do not carry a gun, so I am happy to keep a low profile, even if I did see something suspicious.

[giovanni_hotel]

Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.