17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by hard4janira With all due respect, there isn't one black person living in this country who has been enslaved. Nor thier parents, nor thier parents parents, nor thier parents, parents, parents. I'm not suggesting that black people have always had equal opportunity. They haven't, but they certianly haven't made the most of the opportunity that they DO HAVE. Black communities in America are a disaster area - this a fact that is not open to debate...

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact. The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proud of the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:
http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageSe...name=AAHP_home

As for poverty, and why some people do better than others, even in America, that is outside the breadth of this thread -for the key point to me, is that nobody knows what sort of man Trayvon Martin would have become. He was denied the opportunity -and perhaps what is so shocking to someone in the UK who has never held a gun in his life, is that the 'Stand your ground' concept is part of Florida law. From the denial of a young man's opportunity to live and be something, to the right of another to kill him. If I was an American, I would be ashamed.

[fastingforlife]

You don't have to adopt American citizenship to be ashamed. There are plenty of shameful things happening right under your nose.

[Stavros]

You don't have to adopt American citizenship to be ashamed. There are plenty of shameful things happening right under your nose.

Sadly true, in the case of the UK.

[yodajazz]

Not to change the topic but does anybody know these four tough guys? Maybe jesse or al or even nobama might want to lend a hand in helping a soldier in need.

I personally hate to see anyone jumped on by mulitple people. I am one who will jump in to help the underdog, and race makes no difference. That being said, any person with knowledge will know that the offenders, will be caught and prosecuted. But the issue I have, is that there are criminals of all races. Asians have gangs, which typically target the members of their own communities. But one major difference, in crime in differing racial communties is media exposure. I know more than one person with inside knowledge, that certain suburban ( typically White) communities, specifically try to keep crime and drug use within their communtities, out of the media. They understand that the image of their community being safe, helps to maintain their vitality. On the other hand Blacks within cities, who are caught as the result of criminal activity, are often 'paraded' on the news. This helps to perpetuate the cycle of fear. One effect of fear is that businesses refuse to offer services in inner city communtiy reducing the the amount of jobs available to youth in particular. Even before the major economic downturn, Black youth typically had unemployment rates in the 40% range.

As it has been stated in this thread, numerous time the issue in the Zimmerman case was always about justice. The case happens to higlight some of life's injustices. Tkae this as an example: When Martin's death was investigated right after the incident, the police did not, order Zimmerman to take a drug test. Yet here in Ohio, Republicans have proposed a law that would require anyone recieving public assistance to be drug tested. To be fair Zimmerman was tested as a result of his medical treatment. But I cant believe that you cannot see the irony in the comparison.

[jamesedwards]

pay that Nut Case no mind, he knows that you are educated thats why he keeps fucking with you

Oh is that what it is? Ok thank you for the heads up, that person is messing with all of us then.

What that person don't understand and have the nerve to talk about African descent communities, WE DON'T HAVE COMMUNITIES no more. In a sweep of inner cities across America there was a change that happened and still going on, and I will only talk about Harlem.

The plan back in the late 80's into the 90's is a set up a system for the beginning of 2000, had Asians and Caucasians on tour buses touring around Harlem. We are thinking they are tourist from other countries when we saw the buses, hell no they lived already anywhere in the USA. They were shouting out properties for the near future to buy.

Now being Harlem was mostly African descent people once I found that out because I asked questions, I then said "HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MOVE IN?" Simple, THEY KICKED OUT African Americans and relocate them. It's going on right now, there are so many Caucasians in Harlem now than ever before, it's starting to look like 42nd street. This happened because they organised to get us out and knowing that New York has the best transportation system in America, not the cleanest lol Caucasians don't have to spend money to for a car to go to work they could spend less to get on public transportation. I have pics of how Harlem use to look vs how it looks now!!!

Here's some of the ways they kicked us out.

Raise the rent so dam high that you couldn't afford it so you had to move, most of the migration is to the south Bronx where it's not even more over crowded and you think the Caucasians care? Hell no they ain't worried they walking around like they don't have a care in the world, AND THAT OTHER PERSON WONDERING WHY OUR PEOPLE ANGRY? This is not only happening in NYC either. Then that same person wants to talk about OUR COMMUNITIES, that person don't know our communities were destroyed twice, once when Martin L. King signed the civil rights document with Linden B. Johnson and when President Reagan came into office and the crack epidemic basically fucked us up!!!
There were some families on public assistance, the trick to send them to the Bronx or to get them the fuck outta there were to get cases against them and if you get a 2nd case against you about anything the case worker would move your ass out, this was the biggest scam going on in early 2000's. People didn't know what was going on, so the system set shit up behind our backs to migrate us out for the welfare of Caucasian, Asians and others buying properties prior right in our faces and we didn't know it, and this person wonders why we angry? There are loads of African descent people that want to work and go to work yet still get treated like shit in 2012.

See I can go into shit from credit card scam, to employment how it's all set up, because I didn't even want to say what I just said, because a lot of people wouldn't get this shit, and some will say this is some conspiracy bullshit, which is not, it's a fact, all they gotta do is go to Harlem and you will see what the hell I am talking about. Harlem is starting to look like Park avenue with the same dam prices of Park Avenue. They did a little dumb as quoted so they won't get sued where they have to have minimum living places where the rent is for low income housing.

So to answer that person's question with a couple of reasons why African descent people are angry is how we are being treated.

[jamesedwards]

We definitely knew what type of guy Zimmerman was HE WAS A PARANOID, PSYCHO MANIAC, DELUSIONAL, COP HERO WANNA BE, VIGILANTE asshole. Just looking at his past shows he wanted to be in law enforcement so bad he became psychotic about it. With people like this it always end up tragic, it will never end up good because they are maniacs !!!

[jamesedwards]

Profound words!!! For a person in 2012 to say that African descent people have never been enslaved in this country leads me to think 1. they must live on another continent, 2. dumb as a motha fucka, 3. in super duper denial, 4. crazy as all out hell.

It's a definite history that is recorded and I have a lot of that history. Yet when we talk about our holocaust we are told "AWWW DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT IT WAS SO LONG AGAIN FORGET ABOUT IT"... Fuck outta here when the so call Jews talk about their holocaust no one say shit, and we suppose to forgot about our ancestors that died on the middle passage and treated like animals and all types of crazy shit I don't wanna go into which still affect my people till this day, some won't understand it because you can't see how worn my shoes are unless you have walked in them.

No this case shouldn't be about racism, but the real fact it is. But I am more concerned about race, I am concerned about the dumb ass act Zimmerman made that lead to a young teen getting killed when this shit could of been avoided. What if that was my child or anyone else child? How come he only reported African descent people looking suspicious? Are African descent people the only ones that commit crimes? There's a lot of bullshit people are scared to dialogue about, not me because I know the real. But profound what you said.

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact. The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proudof the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:
http://nas.nasonline.org/site/PageSe...name=AAHP_home
.

[hard4janira]

Did you even know the Constitution still allows slavery? THIS DAY IN 2012!!! Let me give you some knowledge, there is a physical slavery and a mental slavery, mental slavery is more dangerous than physical slavery and I will leave it at that.

I'm laughing. Out loud, in fact.

This absolutely makes no sense, if in one hand you say African descent people haven't had EQUAL OPPS then in the next hand you say they haven't made the most of OPPS, how in the world can you tell if there hasn't been equality? There's no logic to that at all!!

I say this because public education is free. Libraries are free (funded by taxpayers) and yet I do not see many black people taking advantage of the opportunities available to them. Many blacks do not value education. It is not a virtue passed down or enforced (partly because the family unit within many black families is non-existant). It's all about the street-cred.

I am from Harlem and I remember our communities had lots of African descent own stores, then I seen a change happen where we were losing our communities and businesses and immigrants started coming in.

Nothing wrong with immigrants - what are you trying to say? Why did blacks start losing thier communites and businesses? You didn't tie the two together although you implied there is some connection.

...So I wonder how many are really in there that didn't commit a crime hum?

Probably very few.

Yes there are African Americans killing one another, so are Chinese, Hispanics, Caucasians etc, there is good and bad in each nation. I acknowledge a problem alright and I know just who it is.

AND there are blacks preying on other races too like those two grad students who were murdered at USC (but that's OK, it's just 'gang violence') nothing 'racist' here right? Let's get back to busting Zimmermans balls....

Korean or Chinese food shops own businesses and don't hire not ONE African descent person from that community. From the five boroughs of NEW YORK I have never seen in 20 years one Chinese or Korean food shop hire my people. And no one says nothing, I notice it that's why I don't support it besides the nasty unhealthy food.

Asians cook and eat nasty, unhealthy food? JEEZ, Let's not get racist here... If you look hard enough you can find a lot of healhty things to eat on an Asian menu... IF YOU LOOK. Funny that you mention it, I dont think traditional 'black' food is very healthy. I mean for fuck sake is there anything you don't deep fry? Why is adult onset diabetes so prevelent among minorities? What do you really know about nasty, unhealthy food you just blamed on asians?

Lets say we boycott them so bad they move out, we get a store of our own, within 2 years the govt will hike the prices some how on that business it will be down before it even started. Then the next Chinese shop will pop up.

Yes, lets boycott immigrants. That's not fucking racist (rolling eyes)

Every time there is a cut where do they hit first? EDUCATION!!! It's a plan you fuck up education then you keep those who are poor, POOR !!! The education in this country is watered down and basically not really teaching my people who they really are but the Caucasian's history, I can go into how that destroys the mental but I am not. Another thing, education for my people is so crazy it's CRAZY!!! When the Govt seen that more African descent people were heading for college, what they do? RAISE THE PRICES!!! See you're not going in depth to what's going on, you don't see the real picture and who the dam puppet master is!!

Statistics have shown that spending more on education doesn't translate into results. America spends far more per capital on education that almost every other nation in the world yet ranks 23 (we used to be 1st 30 years ago). It's a myth that by just spending money kids will become more educated. I won't go down the path of all the things that are wrong with education but you make another silly comment by suggesting that teaching black youth white history is somehow crazy. If you don't want to learn it because you resent white people then fine - play your little games and study black history only for self-esteem. However, your knowlege of history in the long run will be piss-poor because you will have learned a fragment of information that is historically important.

One final comment... If OJ was acquited given the evidense stacked up against him, Zimmerman should not only walk - they should give him a 200 dollar Norstroms gift card for his troubles.

[hard4janira]

[quote=jamesedwards;1144414]Profound words!!! For a person in 2012 to say that African descent people have never been enslaved in this country leads me to think [/qoute]

Nobody ever said that, so it shouldn't lead you do to anything.

Zimmerman made that lead to a young teen getting killed when this shit could of been avoided. What if that was my child or anyone else child? How come he only reported African descent people looking suspicious? Are African descent people the only ones that commit crimes? There's a lot of bullshit people are scared to dialogue about, not me because I know the real. But profound what you said.

Do you honestly have to ask that question? What planet do you live on? Blacks are profiled so much more than other races because they commit a vastly disproportionate amount of crime given their % of the overall population...

Next....

[hard4janira]

If you are not interested in history, it doesn't make sense for you to base an argument on something in history -slavery- which is a recorded fact.

Ummm.... thanks for cluing me in on that.

The argument that you do propose, is open to question because the majority of Black Americans are not in prison, have never been in prison, are unlikely to ever go to prison, and hold down regular jobs like (I assume) you do. For professional reasons I came across Donald Hopkins some years ago. I don't know if you know who he is, but anyway if you want to be proud of the achievements of Black Americans, African-Americans, descendants of slaves, immigrants, whatever you choose to call them -but all of them American Citizens, just like you, go here:

Let's stick with American citizens. ALL American citizens share the same rights (and have the same responsibilities) regardless of race. I just wish some people would hold up their end of the bargain. And I don't need a link to tell me of the accomplishments of black people. There are many blacks who have over-achieved and made the most of thier opportunities (Thomas Sowell being one of my favorites).

As for poverty, and why some people do better than others, even in America, that is outside the breadth of this thread -for the key point to me, is that nobody knows what sort of man Trayvon Martin would have become.

He wasn't off to a good start. I'm not saying he deserved to die because of it (he didn't). But let's face the facts: He was heading down the wrong path.

He was denied the opportunity -and perhaps what is so shocking to someone in the UK who has never held a gun in his life, is that the 'Stand your ground' concept is part of Florida law. From the denial of a young man's opportunity to live and be something, to the right of another to kill him. If I was an American, I would be ashamed.

I feel ashamed for those two asian grad students at USC who were murdered in their car. I sure wish they had a gun with them and had an opportunity to defendt themselves. I don't think California has a stand your ground law but I sure wish those kids had a chance. I'm ashamed to be an American because of what happened to them.

And let's clear something else up. You say that 'most' black men aren't in prison as if that statment in and of itself is something to be proud of. That statement would still be true if the split was 51/49. Are sugggesting that we ignore the facts as long as the statistics weigh in favor of how you phrase things?

There are a great many people in the black community who have called what is happenning to the black male (in terms of incarceration) an 'epidemic'. Those are thier words, not mine. I used the word 'disaster area'. I could have used 'shit storm' as well. Blacks will admit this problem in thier own community but when somebody else tries to state the obvious they go into denial. They simpy can't accept hearing the truth from outside their own walls. That is a text book example of an inferiority complex if you ask me. They need to stop pretending like nobody else knows what the fuck is going on and set about fixing the problems instead.